>>> DAVID MACAULAY HAS DELIGHTED READERS INTO LEARNING HOW THINGS ARE BUILT AND HOW THINGS WORK FOR OVER 30 YEARS.

HIS NEW "HOW WE WORK" TACKLES THE HUMAN BODY.

AUTHOR AND ILLUSTRATOR DAVID MACAULAY NEXT ON "PROFILE."

♪♪ >>> DAVID MACAULAY GREW UP IN ENGLAND UNTIL AGE 11, WHEN HIS FAMILY MOVED TO NEW JERSEY.

HE EARNED A DEGREE IN ARCHITECTURE FROM THE ROAD -- SCHOOL OF DESIGN.

HE HAS GONE ON TO WRITE AND ILLUSTRATE OVER 24 BOOKS.

WHILE BEST KNOWN FOR HIS BOOKS ON ARCHITECTURE AND ENGINEERING, MACAULAY IS ALSO A GIFTED AUTHOR OF PICTURE BOOKS, INCLUDING THE CALDECOTT MEDAL WINNING "BLACK AND WHITE."

MACAULAY HAS HOSTED SEVERAL P.B.S.

SERIES BASED ON HIS WORK, AND HAS IMPRESSIVE AWARED, INCLUDING AN MacARTHUR FELLOWSHIP.

HE LIVES IN NORWICH, VERMONT.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> YOU HAVE LIVED IN THE STATE SINCE AGE 11.

YOU WERE BORN IN ENGLAND, SPENT FORMATIVE YEARS THERE, HOW DID THOSE EARLY YEARS INFLUENCE YOUR LOVE OF ARCHITECTURE, SENSE OF CURIOSITY?

>> I SPENT A LOT OF TIME PLAYING OUTSIDE DURING THOSE 11 YEARS.

WE LIVED IN A VERY SMALL HOUSE.

MY MOTHER WAS ONLY TOO DELIGHTED TO ENCOURAGE ME TO PLAY OUTSIDE IF THE WEATHER WAS EVEN REMOTELY REASONABLE SO THAT SHE COULD WORRY ABOUT MY SISTER.

SO, WHEN YOU HAVE A LOT OF TIME AS A KID OUTSIDE, YOU LET YOUR IMAGINATION GO.

I PRETENDED TO BE EVERYBODY AND ANYBODY.

WE HAD WOODS AT THE END OF THE STREET, AND A STREAM, AND THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS ALL OF NATURE AS FAR AS I WAS CONCERNED.

IT WAS ALL I NEEDED.

YOU COULD GET LOST IN A BUNCH OF TREES AND A STREAM.

ALSO, WHEN IT WASN'T NICE OUTSIDE, BECAUSE WE LIVED IN A SMALL HOUSE AND BASICALLY LIVED IN ONE ROOM, YOU NEEDED TO KIND OF OCCUPY YOURSELF.

AND I LIKE TO MAKE THINGS.

MY PARENTS BOTH MADE THINGS ALSO.

>> RIGHT.

>> FOR PRACTICAL REASONS.

>> TEXTILE AND -- >> MY FATHER WAS IN TEXTILES, BUT WHEN HE CAME HOME, AROUND ON THE WEEKENDS, HE WAS BASICALLY MAKING SOMETHING, OUT OF WOOD USUAL, THINGS WE NEEDLED FOR -- NEEDED FOR THE HOUSE.

A SHELF.

I BECAME AWARE OF PROCESS.

THINGS DON'T FALL OUT OF THE SKY.

YOU DON'T GO TO THE STORE AND BUY THEM.

THEY CAN BE MADE.

IF THEY ARE GOING TO BE MADE, THEY HAVE TO BE MADE IN A CERTAIN WAY.

YOU BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND THERE IS A METHOD FOR DOING THINGS.

AS MY FATHER WOULD SAY, IF YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING, DO IT RIGHT.

>> AND MAYBE DO IT YOURSELF.

YOU WENT ON TO EARN A DEGREE OF ARCHITECTURE, MOVING QUICKLY, AT RISD, RHODE ISLAND SCHOOL OF DESIGN, BUT YOU DIDN'T PURSUE DESIGN AND BUILDING.

WHY NOT?

CLEARLY INTRIGUED BY IT.

>> INTRIGUED BY THE PROSPECT, NOT BY WORKING IN AN OFFICE AND BEING ONE OF THE GROUP BASICALLY.

I GUESS I REALIZED WHAT I WANTED TO DO WAS SOMETHING MORE INDEPENDENT, SOMETHING THAT I COULD BE IN CONTROL OF.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT WAS.

WHEN I STARTED I SORT OF ASSUMED THAT WOULD BE ARCHITECTURE.

REALITY IS IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE YOU ARE A STAR ARCHITECT, IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE ONE OF THOSE.

SO, I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD USE THAT EDUCATION, THAT DESIGN EDUCATION, PROBLEM-SOLVING, BUT IN MY WAY.

>> IN THE EARLY 70s, YOU PITCHED A BOOK ON A GARGOYLE BEAUTY PAGEANT, WERE YOU RESISTENT TO DOING SOMETHING MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD -- >> IT WASN'T -- WITHIN THE FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS AFTER GRADUATING, I SUGGESTED A COUPLE OF BOOKS AND TOOK THEM UP AND SHOWED THEM.

AND THIS GARGOYLE BEAUTY PAGEANT WAS THE THIRD I SHOWED.

I WAS GETTING USED TO REJECTION.

WALTER TO RAN THE CHILDREN'S DEPARTMENT FOR THE LAST 35 YEARS, LOOKED AT THE DRAWINGS, HE SAID THERE IS A LOT OF FANTASY STUFF OUT THERE, BUT NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT ARCHITECTURE.

WHAT I HAD DONE IN THE BACK OF ONE OF THESE DRAWINGS, WAS THE FA ÇADE OF A CATHEDRAL, AND HE PICKED UP THE BACKDROP, NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT THIS STUFF.

I WAS GOING BACK TO STUDYING ARCHITECTURE WHICH IS WHAT I THOUGHT I WAS GETTING RID OF, AND I THOUGHT, WELL, MAYBE I CAN EXPLAIN THIS.

MAYBE THERE IS A STORY HERE.

HE WAS RIGHT.

>> YOU DO IT THROUGH STORY, WHICH IS BEAUTIFUL.

SPEAKING OF WALTER LORRAINE, YOU HAVE HAD A 35 YEAR RELATIONSHIP, PUBLISHER, HIM AS YOUR EDITOR, AND HE JUST RETIRED LAST YEAR, THAT IS UNPRECEDENTED, ISN'T IT, IN THE PUBLISHING BUSINESS?

>> UNPRECEDENTED NOW CERTAINLY.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS UNPRECEDENTED PERIOD, BUT IT IS CERTAINLY VERY UNUSUAL NOW, AND PROBABLY NOT GOING TO EVER BE SEEN AGAIN.

THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE INVOLVED IN MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT BOOK YOU SHOULD DO, AND HOW YOU SHOULD DO IT.

BARNS AND NOBLE TELLING YOU WHAT THE JACKET SHOULD LOOK LIKE, ETC., ETC.

I HAD A REMARKABLE THREE AND A HALF DECADES WITH WALTER WHERE WE DECIDED WHAT THE JACKET WOULD BE, HE BASICALLY SAID, IF THIS IS THE BOOK YOU WANT IT DO, DO IT.

HE WOULD BE THERE TO ASK QUESTIONS WHEN HE GOT CONFUSED ABOUT SOMETHING I WAS TRYING TO SAY.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN THERE.

THERE WAS NEVER WHY DON'T YOU DO IT THIS WAY.

THIS IS NOT A GOOD DIRECTION, AND THAT IS GONE.

>> IS THAT GOING TO CHANGE THINGS FOR YOU THAT HE HAS RETIRED?

>> IT HAS CHANGED THINGS IN THAT I HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE MY OWN IMPRINT WITH A DIFFERENT PUBLISHER.

THAT HAS CHANGED THINGS.

>> I GUESS.

BACK TO YOUR BOOKS.

UNBUILDING WAS AMONG THE LAST OF YOUR ARCHITECTURAL SERIES, PYRAMID OF THE CITY, CASTLE, MILL, WHAT WAS THE IDEA HERE?

>> YOU KNOW, MAKING THESE BOOKS ABOUT HOW SOMETHING IS BUILT IS SORT OF FUN TO DO.

IT HAD BECOME FORMULAIC, I DID WANT TO DO ANOTHER BUILDING STORY FROM THE GROUND UP, BUT I'VE ALWAYS BEEN ATTACHED TO THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING IN A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS.

I WANTED IT TO BE -- I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GOOD SUBJECT MATTER.

IT WAS THE FIRST BOOK ABOUT THE REAL BUILDING.

EVERYTHING ELSE WAS INVENTED.

>> RIGHT.

>> THIS REQUIRED A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH AND SO ON AND SO FORTH, MORE PRECISE DATES AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

BUT I -- I DIDN'T WANT TO DO ANOTHER STORY FROM THE GROUND UP.

I THOUGHT I WILL JUST DISMANTLE IT.

IN A CITY LIKE NEW YORK, YOU CAN'T JUST BULLDOZE, PUSH IT OVER, YOU HAVE TO LITERALLY TAKE IT APART.

IF YOU TAKE IT APART THE RIGHT WAY, YOU ARE BASICALLY BUILDING IT BACKWARDS, OR UNBUILDING IT, WHICH IS WHERE THE TITLE COMES FROM.

>> YOU HAVE AN OIL -- >> HE BOUGHT THE BUILDING, COULDN'T FIND AN ARCHITECT THAT WOULD GIVE HIM NEW OIL HEADQUARTERS, AND HE SAID I WILL BUY SOMETHING.

IT HAS A HISTORY.

>> QUITE REMARKABLE.

MOVING ON TO THE WAY THINGS WORK.

THIS IS A DEPARTURE ON A LOT OF LEVELS.

YOU'RE WORKING WITH A WRITER, WITH COLOR, DIFFERENT SHAPES OF THINGS.

WHAT WAS THE MOST CHALLENGING ABOUT THAT VERY POPULAR BOOK?

>> MAYBE THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION, I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND IT -- >> THAT IS A RELIEF TO ME.

>> I WAS SO TIRED.

WORKING AT HOME OF CHRISTOPHER DAVIS, REALLY THE MAN BEHIND THAT WHOLE PROJECT WHO GOT ME INVOLVED IN IT.

IT WASN'T MY IDEA TO DO A 400 PAGE BOOK ABOUT MACHINES.

I COULD HAVE LIVED WITHOUT THAT.

IN SORT OF ARTISTICALLY SPEAKING, FINANCIALLY, I'M NOT SO SURE, AND SO THE LAST DRAWING WAS DONE, I WAS THERE, SUNDAY AFTERNOON, 3:00, GRAY OUTSIDE, AND I WAS DRAWING THIS AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION.

FOR ME TO TELL YOU HOW IT WORKED I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE BOOK AND REREAD IT AND LOOK AT MY OWN DRAWINGS, BECAUSE I DON'T REMEMBER.

IN FACT, THAT'S TRUE FOR A LOT OF THINGS IN A BOOK LIKE THAT.

WHY DO THE BOOK IF YOU ARE GOING TO TRY TO REMEMBER IT ALL?

THERE WOULD BE NO POINT IN GATHERING ALL OF THIS INFORMATION.

BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU, NEAL ARDLY WHO WROTE THE TECHNICAL TEXT, NO LONGER WITH US, UNFORTUNATELY, HE KNEW THAT STUFF.

HE BECAME MY TEACHER, SORT OF MY PERSONAL INSTRUCTOR FOR THAT FOUR YEAR PERIOD.

AND IF I HAD QUESTIONS -- >> IT IS GOOD TO HAVE A WRITER IN THAT CASE.

>> ESSENTIAL.

WITH THE BODY BOOK, AGAIN, THE WRITER, YOU NEED PEOPLE TO COME IN FROM THE OUTSIDE.

I COULD DO IT WITH THE ARCHITECTURE, BUT NOT WHEN YOU ARE TAKING ON SOMETHING COMPLETELY UNFAMILIAR.

>> RIGHT.

WHY -- YOU USED AN EXTINCT BEAST, THE WOOLLY MAMMOTH, PEOPLE SO FAMILIAR WITH.

HE IS SO ADORABLE.

>> HE'S COMING BACK.

ONCE I GET THIS GENETIC STUFF WORKED OUT, YOU WILL FIND MAMMOTHS IN THE ZOO.

>> BECAUSE OF THE D.N.A.

AND STUFF.

>> WHY DID YOU CHOOSE THE MAMMOTH?

>> HE CHOSE ME.

I DIDN'T CHOOSE THE MAMMOTH.

I WAS TRYING TO FIND SIMPLE TECHNOLOGY -- THINK OF THE LOGS, ROCKS, EVERYTHING YOU NEED FOR WEIGHING, AND I DREW SOME CAVE PEOPLE, TREES IN THE BACKGROUND, CAVES, MAMMOTH HERE, SABER TOOTH TIGER, AND THEN IT OCCURRED TO ME WHAT WOULD YOU USE THIS LEVER FOR, LOG FOR.

YOU CAN USE IT TO WEIGH THE MAMMOTH IF YOU PUT IT ON -- THAT'S HOW IT STARTED.

I FOUND OTHER WAYS OF USING THE MAMMOTH TO INTRODUCE SIMPLE TECHNOLOGY.

WHAT I DIDN'T ANTICIPATE WAS THAT EVERYONE WOULD SAY HEY, WE REALLY LIKE THE MAMMOTH.

WE HOPE YOU KEEP HIM FOR THE ENTIRE BOOK.

NO, THAT DOESN'T WORK.

IT'S OLD.

IT HAD A PARTICULAR PLACE WHEN I WAS INTRODUCING THIS ANCIENT TECHNOLOGY, BUT YOU CAN'T USE THEM WITH COMPUTERS, AND PRESSURE AND FLYING AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

GIVE IT A TRY.

>> BILL GATES -- >> YOUR PICTURE BOOK, "BLACK AND WHITE," WHICH WAS AWARDED THE CALDECOTT MEDAL IS QUITE UNUSUAL, ABOUT FOUR STORIES, WHAT INSPIRED THAT INTERACTIVE, A STORY UP ON THE RIGHT, EVERY TIME YOU TURN THE PAGE IT IS ALWAYS UP HERE ON THE UPPER RIGHT, AND ANOTHER STORY DOWN HERE, ETC., ETC.?

>> I THINK I SPENT A FAIR AMOUNT OF TIME IN THE STUDIO IN THE MID 80s NOT WANTING TO REPEAT THE ARCHITECTURE BOOKS AGAIN, AND WANTING TO TRAVEL, AND WANTING TO GO OFF ON THESE JOURNEYS, AND I COULDN'T REALLY GO OFF ON JOURNEYS, BUT I COULD IN THE STUDIO GO OFF ON JOURNEYS.

YOU KNOW, "BLACK AND WHITE" EVOLVED FROM SKETCHES, FRAGMENTARY SKETCHES IN MANY CASES, A BOOK ON WHY DID THE CHICKEN CROSS THE ROAD, VERY SILLY, SHORTCUT THAT CAME LATER.

"BLACK AND WHITE" IS ANOTHER JOURNEY BOOK, BUT THE JOURNEY IS IN A SENSE THROUGH THE BOOK BY BREAKING UP THE BOOK, BY PRESENTING THE INFORMATION IN A BOOK IN A WAY THAT YOU WOULDN'T EXPECT TO SEE IT.

I'M NOT SURE WHETHER IT IS FOUR STORIES OR ONE STORIES -- >> OR FIVE STORIES.

>> IT CERTAINLY ISN'T LIFE-CHANGING, IT IS AMUSEMENT, AND IT MAKES YOU THINK A LITTLE BIT.

I THINK KIDS RESPOND TO THAT PART OF THAT.

THEY SORT OF FIGURE OUT WHAT IS GOING ON.

WAIT A MINUTE, I HAVE SEEN THIS IMAGE, THE TRAIN, THE DOG'S NOSE, AND I SAW IT IN ANOTHER SET OF PICTURES PAINTED OR DRAWN IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WAY IN A DIFFERENT PART OF THE BOOK.

GRADUALLY THEY CONSTRUCT A COHERENT TALE FROM THIS -- >> WHICH IS TERRIFIC.

IT IS INTERESTING THAT YOU TALK ABOUT TRAVEL.

YOU DID TEN SERIES FOR PBS ON BUILDING BIG AND WE DON'T EVEN HAVE TIME TO GET INTO THEM.

>> IT'S ALWAYS THERE.

HOW NICE TO BE OUT OF THE STUDIO WORKING WITH A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHEN MOST OF YOUR TIME IS SPENT IN SOLITARY CONFINEMENT, THE WORLD OF SORT OF JUST YOU AND YOUR DRAWING BOARD, AND HOW GREAT IT WAS FOR THREE OR FOUR WEEKS A YEAR TO GO TO EGYPT OR TO GO TO ROME AND JUST BE WORKING WITH A CREW, WHERE EVERYBODY WAS HAVING TO DO THEIR BIT TO MAKE THIS WORK.

THAT WAS WONDERFUL.

>> SPEAKING OF ROME, ROME IS VERY SPECIAL, A SPECIAL PLACE IN YOUR HEART.

YOU HAVE CITY, ROME, ANGELO, A NUMBER OF BOOKS BASED IN ROME.

>> I SPENT MY FIFTH YEAR AS AN ARCHITECT STUDENT IN ROME, I WAS 22, PERFECT TIME TO BE THERE.

HOME AWAY FROM HOME FOR ME EVER SINCE.

I LOVE GOING BACK.

FIRST THING I DO WHEN I GET THERE, I TAKE THE SAME TOUR TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS STILL THERE WHEN I LEFT.

I FEEL AT HOME IN A PLACE WHERE I CANNOT ACTUALLY COMMUNICATE WITH MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE.

BUT I STILL FEEL SO AT HOME.

THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT THE SENSE OF SPACE, HISTORY, ARCHITECTURE, SURPRISE, MIXING OF AGES AND THE SENSE OF CONTINUITY THAT I JUST IMMEDIATELY AM DRAWN TO.

>> YOU CAN FEEL A REAL CONNECTION IN THOSE BOOKS.

20 YEARS AFTER "CATHEDRAL," AND AFTER A LONG DEPARTURE FROM THE ARCHITECTURE BOOKS, YOU CREATED "MOSQUE", WHY DID YOU CHOOSE THAT BOOK IN 2002, 2003?

>> I MADE THE DECISION TO DO IT THREE DAYS AFTER SEPTEMBER 11th.

I CALLED WALTER UP.

THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HAVING AN EDITOR THAT YOU CAN, WITH THE VERY SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP.

WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BODY BOOK AT THIS POINT.

YOU KNOW, THE BODY CAN WAIT.

I NEED TO DO SOMETHING POSITIVE.

HERE WE ARE SUDDENLY KIND OF AT WAR WITH AN ENTIRE CULTURE THAT WE DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND.

WE DON'T KNOW WHY WE SHOULD BE AFRAID OF THEM OR WHETHER WE ARE, AND WE'RE BEING LED DOWN CERTAIN PATHS.

I NEED TO DO SOMETHING POSITIVE THAT REMINDS MY READERS THAT THEY'RE PEOPLE, JUST LIKE US, AND THEY ASPIRE TO DO THINGS LIKE WE ASPIRE TO DO THINGS.

SO I PICKED SOMETHING THAT I THOUGHT WAS VERY BEAUTIFUL, THAT WAS MADE IN OTTOMAN TIMES, THE BUILDING OF THE MOSQUE AND THE COMPLEX OF BUILDINGS -- IT REALLY IS A REMARKABLE STRUCTURE, DISPLAY OF SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY, CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY, DOING STUFF TO KIND OF REBUILD AN ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND IT IS POSITIVE, POSITIVE, POSITIVE, AND I WANTED TO PUT A LITTLE BIT OF SOMETHING POSITIVE OUT THERE AT A TIME WHEN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EASY TO GO RUNNING OFF THE CLIFF AND GRAB OUR SWORDS ON THE WAY AND START SWIMMING ACROSS THE SEA.

>> WHO WAS WITH YOU -- HE WAS WITH YOU -- >> THAT WAS SORT OF THE CONVERSATION.

WRITE UP A LITTLE PAPER FOR ME BECAUSE I WILL NEED TO PRESENT THIS TO WHOEVER IT WAS.

AND I -- I WROTE TWO PARAGRAPHS, AND SAID THIS IS WHAT WE SHOULD DO, AND THAT WAS IT.

>> SACRED SPACE -- IS SACRED SPACE MUCH DIFFERENT FROM "CATHEDRAL"?

>> IT FEELS -- IT IS ALSO PRESESSIONAL.

THE LONG JOURNEY FROM THE FRONT TO THE BACK, BACK TO THE FRONT AS PEOPLE ENTER.

THE MOSQUE IS A SORT OF SQUARE SPACE UNDER A DOME.

AND THERE IS, YOU KNOW, THERE IS NO -- THERE IS NONE OF THAT HIERARCHY, THAT SORT OF STUFF.

IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT FEEL.

ROWS OF MEN, BASICALLY, WOMEN UP ON THE SIDES, SO IT FEELS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, BUT IT IS MORE SORT OF CONTAINED IN THIS WAY RATHER THAN THAT.

>> INTERESTING.

WELL, WE SHOULD MOVE ON TO THE LATEST BOOK, THE WAY WE WORK, HUGE CHALLENGE.

YOU THOUGHT IT WAS TIME.

HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT THE RESEARCH FOR THIS?

>> I STARTED READING, AS WITH EVERYTHING, CURIOSITY OVERCAME MY COMMON SENSE, I STARTED ACQUIRING BOOKS AND STARTED READING AND THEN I REALIZED I WAS GOING TO NEED TO START TO TALK TO PEOPLE WHO REALLY KNEW THE STUFF AND I COULD READ AND UNDERSTAND IT AND INTERPRET IT TO A POINT.

I FOUND ANATOMY PEOPLE, ANATOMY PERSON, BIOCHEMIST, COUPLE OF BIOCHEMISTS, INFECTIOUS DISEASE PERSON, SURGEONS, GASTROENTEROLOGIST, IF THAT IS THE RIGHT -- YEAH, I THINK IT IS, AND I WORKED UP A SECTION, I WOULD TRY TO FEED IT TO THESE PEOPLE TO GET THEIR, YOU KNOW, INPUT, BUT ALSO AFTER ABOUT FOUR YEARS ON IT, I REALIZED I COULDN'T WRITE THIS WHOLE THING MYSELF AND EVER REALLY BE CONFIDENT.

I ASKED FOR A WRITER.

RICHARD WALKER WAS AVAILABLE, LIVES IN ENGLAND, WRITTEN A LOT OF STUFF ON THE BODY, WE SPENT THE LAST 16 MONTHS ON THE PROJECT WORKING TOGETHER.

HE WOULD COME TO NORWICH VERMONT, AND WE WOULD SPEND FIVE DAYS AT A SHOT GOING THROUGH A SECTION AND MAKING SURE THAT EVERYTHING WAS LAID OUT AND I COULD GO TO WORK DEVELOPING THE DRAWINGS AND PAGES AND SERVING MORE AS AN EDITOR RATHER THAN HAVING TO GENERATE ORIGINAL TEXT.

BEING ABLE TO WORK WITH TEXT WRITTEN BY SOMEBODY WHOSE KNOWLEDGE YOU KNOW YOU CAN TRUST MADE ALL OF THE DIFFERENCE.

THAT IS THE THING I THINK I PANICKED ABOUT HALFWAY THROUGH THE EARLIER PART OF THE BOOK.

>> THIS HAS BEEN ON THE BOOKS FOR AWHILE.

I ALSO READ THAT YOU SPENT TIME IN THE O.R.

AND THAT, YOU KNOW, APPARENTLY THIS, RATHER THAN MAKING YOU QUEAZY HAD QUITE THE OPPOSITE EFFECT.

>> YEAH, IF YOU ARE IN AN OPERATING ROOM AND THERE IS A SURGERY GOING ON, PANCREAS HAD TO COME OUT AND THE SPLEEN, THERE IS AN AWFUL LOT OF BLOOD VESSELS THAT NEAT TO BE CAUTERIZED BEFORE YOU CAN REMOVE THIS SAFELY, OTHERWISE YOU'RE IN A BLOOD BATH.

I WAS TRYING TO BE AS INCONSPICUOUS AS POSSIBLE.

I REALIZED THAT I WAS STARVING, SO HUNGRY.

I REALIZED WHY I WAS HUNGRY, IT SMELLED LIKE A BARBECUE IN THERE.

IT WAS LIKE A BARBECUE.

YOU DON'T SMELL MEDICINE.

YOU SMELL MEAT COOKING.

I WAS JUST REALLY HUNGRY.

>> ROUGHLY SPEAKING, HOW MUCH TIME DOES IT TAKE TO COME UP WITH A RIGHT ILLUSTRATION FOR A SPECIFIC CONCEPT?

>> IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

>> IT DEPENDS.

>> I SKETCH THE WHOLE TIME WHILE I'M READING.

I HAVE BEEN SKETCHING FOR FOUR YEARS BEFORE I START TO MAKE ANYTHING THAT APPROACHED A FINISHED PIECE OF ART FOR THE BOOK.

IN SOME CASES, IN A DAY, YOU COME UP WITH THE RIGHT IDEA, YOU DRAW IT ONCE AND IT IS JUST RIGHT.

A COUPLE OF THOSE IN THE BOOK.

GENERALLY SPEAKING, YOU'RE WORKING ON AN ILLUSTRATION FOR A FEW DAYS, MAYBE A WEEK, AND YOU KEEP TRYING DIFFERENT THINGS.

YOU HAVE TO THINK NOT ONLY ABOUT WHETHER IT IS ACCURATE, BUT IS IT THE MOST ENGAGING ILLUSTRATION YOU CAN MAKE AND WHERE DOES THE TEXT GO.

YOU CAN'T JUST PLUNK THE TEXT IN AT THE LAST MINUTE.

ALL OF THESE DESIGN QUESTIONS HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED WHILE YOU'RE KEEPING YOUR MIND ON THE CONTENT, FIRST AND FOREMOST, BUT THEN RIGHT BEHIND THE CONTENT, OKAY, HOW DO I MAKE THIS INTERESTING TO PEOPLE?

HOW DO I LURE THEM IN SO THAT EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T THINK THEY COULD BE INTERESTED IN THIS PARTICULAR PART OF THE STORY, THEY'RE GOING TO WANT TO LOOK AT THE PICTURE.

>> BASICALLY YOU'RE AN EDUCATOR.

>> I'M A STUDENT.

FOREVER A STUDENT.

AND I THINK LIKE ANY GOOD TEACHER, YOU ARE ALWAYS A STUDENT.

IF YOU STOP BEING A STUDENT, YOU PROBABLY ARE GOING TO STOP BEING A GOOD TEACHER.

>> AND DRAWING HELPS YOU UNDERSTAND THESE COMPLEX THINGS, THE MORE YOU DRAW, THE CLOSER YOU ARE TO THE MAGIC.

>> DRAWING IS A HUGE PART OF IT, AND FEEDING ALL OF THAT INFORMATION THAT YOU GET FROM OTHER PEOPLE'S WORK AND FROM CONVERSATIONS.

BUT IT IS THE DRAWING THAT ALLOWS ME TO SYNTHESIZE IT ALL, DO I UNDERSTAND IT ALL.

THE MORE YOU DRAW SOMETHING, THE MORE IN CONTROL OF THAT SUBJECT YOU FEEL.

EVENTUALLY AS AN ILLUSTRATOR YOU CAN TURN THIS THING AROUND.

YOU SEE IT DONE ON THE COMPUTER.

BUT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DO IT AS AN ILLUSTRATOR ON A PIECE OF PAPER.

THAT IS WHEN YOU KNOW YOU KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON BEHIND, YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON INSIDE.

THAT'S WHEN YOU KNOW YOU'RE READY TO PERHAPS START MAKING THE ILLUSTRATIONS THAT WILL PASS THIS INFORMATION ON TO SOMEONE ELSE.

>> AND MAKE THEM ENTERTAINING AND STUFF.

I WONDER IF YOU THOUGHT THERE WAS A CORRELATION BETWEEN UNDERSTANDING HOW THE BODY WORKS AND BETTER HEALTH.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK THERE IS -- I THINK BEING MORE AWARE AND APPRECIATIVE OF WHAT WE'VE GOT IS LIKELY TO LEAD TO BETTER HEALTH.

IF YOU DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT AT ALL, THIS IS AN AMAZING THING WE ALL HAVE, AND WE TAKE IT FOR GRANTED FROM THE MOMENT WE CAN.

WE ARE DISTRACTED BY THE REST OF LIFE BUT WE DON'T THINK ABOUT THIS BODY THAT IS MAKING IT POSSIBLE FOR US TO ENJOY LIFE.

MY IDEA, IF I COULD CREATE THAT AWARENESS AND THAT APPRECIATION THAT I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO THINK MORE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TAKING CARE OF THEMSELVES.

>> YOU CERTAINLY HAVE A SLY SENSE OF HUMOR THAT YOU USE THROUGHOUT ALL OF YOUR BOOKS, IN WRITING, METAPHORS, DRAWINGS, CREATURES AND STUFF, DO YOU EDIT THAT HUMOR?

ANYTHING GOES -- >> DEFINITELY EDIT IT.

YOU KNOW, IF ALL OF THE HUMOR THAT I SORT OF, YOU KNOW, FUNNY LITTLE THINGS, AT LEAST TO ME, THAT MAKE ME CHUCKLE, IN THE MIDST OF STRUGGLING THROUGH THAT INFORMATION, IF ALL OF THAT STUFF CAME IN, I THINK IT WOULD BE TEDIOUS, FOR ONE THING, BUT IT ALSO MIGHT BEGIN TO UNDER MINE THE CREDITABILITY OF THE BOOK ITSELF.

THESE ARE SERIOUS BOOKS.

YES, I WILL USE HUMOR TO MAKE SOMETHING THAT GETS COMPLICATED A LITTLE LESS ONEROUS, BETTER TO HAVE AN AUDIENCE WITH SMILES ON THEIR FACES, BUT NOT LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY.

>> MOST BOOKS FOUND IN THE YOUTH SECTION, BUT YOUR SUBJECT MATTER IS DIFFICULT AND COMPLEX, ESPECIALLY THIS LAST BOOK.

ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT YOUR READERS OR -- >> YEAH, I AM MY READER.

I ONLY THINK ABOUT MYSELF.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO WRITE FOR A NINE-YEAR-OLD KID, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE ONE, AND A 11-YEAR-OLD, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO WRITE FOR THEM.

I WRITE FOR MYSELF.

I THINK HOW DO I WANT THIS INFORMATION TO COME TO ME?

HOW DID I UNDERSTAND IT THE FIRST TIME?

WHAT MADE ME GET EXCITED ABOUT IT?

I PICK UP ON THAT, THAT BECOMES THE WAY YOU START WRITING ABOUT IT, DRAWING IT, ILLUSTRATING IT.

NO, I'M THE ONE I'M TRYING TO SATISFY AND I TRUST MYSELF.

>> YOUR CHILDREN, PERFECT AGE FOR BOOKS, 11 AND 9 WHEN CURIOSITY IS AT ITS PEAK.

ARE THEY INFLUENCING YOUR WORK AT ALL?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

THEY KEEP ASKING ME TO DO CERTAIN KINDS OF BOOKS, LIKE A BOOK ON ANIMALS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

I HAVE TO DO BOOKS THAT I'M INTERESTED IN.

STUFF THAT REALLY MAKES ME -- WHAT'S WONDERFUL IS WHEN THEY COME TO THE STUDIO WHILE I'M WORKING AFTER SCHOOL AND DROP OFF DRAWINGS OF THE CIRCULATORY SYSTEM AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND SAY, HEY, DAD, YOU MIGHT NEED THIS.

PUT IT ON THE WALL.

THEY'RE AWARE OF WHAT I'M DOING.

WE HAVE TWO OLDER GIRLS, AND THE KIDS HAVE NEVER REALLY HAD A DIRECT INFLUENCE.

THEY'VE HELPED ME SPEND THE MONEY THAT ROYALTIES HAVE MADE, BUT IN TERMS OF ACTUALLY DEVELOPING THE BOOKS AND THE CONTENT, NOT SO MUCH.

IT HAS TO COME FROM ME.

>> YOU MOVED TO VERMONT A FEW YEARS AGO.

WHY DID YOU CHOOSE VERMONT AND HOW HAS IT BEEN WORKING OUT FOR YOU?

>> WE SHOWS VERMONT BECAUSE WE HEARD THAT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM IN NORWICH/HANOVER WAS A TERRIFIC PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.

THAT IS WHAT WE WANTED FOR OUR KIDS.

THEY WERE IN A PRIVATE SCHOOL.

THIS IS CRAZY, THEY WERE SEVEN AND NINE.

THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF A LONG, VERY EXPENSIVE, AND I'M NOT SURE ENTIRELY PRODUCTIVE ASSOCIATION.

LET'S FIND A REALLY GOOD PUBLIC SCHOOL.

AND WE LOOKED AT A COUPLE OF PLACES IN CONNECTICUT, AND I HAVE A DAUGHTER WHO LIVES IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

SHE GAVE US A LITTLE BIT OF THE INSIDE SCOOP.

AND WE DROVE UP TO NORWICH AND LOOKED AROUND AND THOUGHT, WHY, THIS IS GREAT.

THIS WAS ONE HOUSE FOR SALE.

WE BOUGHT IT.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT HAS BEEN FABULOUS.

I MEAN, I JUST CAN'T OVERSTATE IT.

>> WHAT IS NEXT?

PBS SERIES ON THE WAY WE WORK, SOMETHING ELSE -- >> MAYBE MORE TELEVISION STUFF.

A COUPLE OF BOOK IDEAS ARE SIMMERING AT THE MOMENT.

ONE ON INVENTIONS, INVENTIONS THAT CHANGE THINGS AND HOW THAT HAPPENS AND WHERE THEY CAME FROM AND SO ON.

DOES ANYBODY ACTUALLY EVER REALLY INVENT ANYTHING?

AND ANOTHER ON THE SYSTEMS OF THE EARTH, WHICH IS ONE THAT I NEED TO GET GOING ON IN THE NEXT FOUR YEARS, AND HAVE IT DONE.

>> DAVID MACAULAY, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>> DAVID MACAULAY IS THE AUTHOR OF "THE WAY THINGS WORK" AND THE WAY WE WORK, AMONG TWO DOZEN OTHER TITLES.

VISIT OUR WEB SITE vpt.org FOR MORE INFORMATION ON DAVID MACAULAY AND A LINK TO HIS WEB SITE AND VIDEO AND ALL KINDS OF WONDERFUL STUFF.

I'M FRAN STODDARD.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

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