[piano intro] - Hello, I'm Nido Qubein.

Join me on the next "Side By Side" to hear from an entrepreneur and innovator who created a media empire.

He leads 20 different branded publications, as well as a radio station, and an independent bookstore known by its catchphrase, the Little Shop That Could.

Today we'll talk to David Woronoff, the president and publisher of The Pilot in Pinehurst, North Carolina.

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- [Narrator 2] For 60 years, the Budd Group has been a company of excellence, providing facility services to customers, opportunities for employees, and support to our communities.

The Budd Group.

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[bright music] - David, welcome to "Side By Side".

I've been wanting to ask you a very important question.

You are a publisher of a newspaper and many publications beyond that.

You published The Pilot in Southern Pines and Pinehurst markets.

Are newspapers still being read by people, a real newspaper on paper?

- Of course they are.

We publish 9000 copies for a community of 50,000 people.

So that's, it's very well-read.

I think the future of newspapers, particularly community newspapers, they'll be with us for a long time.

- What drives the lifeblood of a newspaper from a business perspective?

Your revenues come from what percentage from advertising, what percentage from circulation, and so on?

- We are, historically, 75% of our revenue has come from the sale of advertising, 25% come from the readers.

And the lifeblood of any media property is relevance.

That's the coin in the realm.

- [Nido] Relevance.

- If you're relevant to your community, you've got a bright future.

If you're not- - And what makes a newspaper relevant?

- I think you, or any media property, for that matter.

A newspaper or magazine, TV station, radio station.

If you cover subjects that your readers find important, and can't live without.

And if you're indispensable, I think you're relevant.

- And is that mostly local news?

- In our case it is.

- Yeah.

- We only cover events that happen in Moore County.

- Mm-hmm.

I can remember the days when a newspaper came in early in the morning.

You got up, you went outside, you picked up the newspaper, and you sort of figured out what's going on in the world, and in the country, and maybe in your city.

Today people get news 24 hours a day, television, digitally on their iPhone, et cetera.

So I suspect that more local stories about more local people makes it more interesting.

- Absolutely.

We're 100 years old.

So we have always been just devoted to our community.

So we always say, well we care what the president says and does.

We just don't see fit to write it in The Pilot.

- [Nido] Yeah.

- Unless he comes to Pinehurst and says it.

- [Nido] Yes, of course.

- So writing about local subjects, you have sometimes something as noteworthy as a child celebrates his fourth birthday.

We'll put a picture of a four-year-old celebrating his birthday in the paper.

And that's the kind of news that people find interesting.

- Yeah.

Well I mean, you also publish so many magazines in North Carolina.

For example, you publish Business North Carolina.

- [David] Yes, sir.

- Which is a business publication that's statewide.

That of course has a completely different focus.

Right?

- So we believe that the future of print, and it will be around for a while, is also a function of being diversified in your media holdings.

The old adage, if the only tool you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail.

Well, if the only tool you have is a newspaper, then the solution to all of your community's information and marketing needs is gonna be more newspaper.

And that's not always the case.

Sometimes you need a story, you need this information right away.

You gotta get it on your phone.

Sometimes you wanna, you need it in a monthly magazine.

Sometimes it might be the middle of the night and your pipe bursts, and you need a phone book that tells you what plumbers are open 24 hours a day.

We provide all of those services to our community.

So what sets The Pilot apart, I believe, is our core purpose, and that's to serve our community.

- So how does a magazine like Business North Carolina survive when you have an abundance of national magazines both in print and online that's spewing out everyday tons and tons of stories, business stories, about current events and about potential future trends, and so on?

- Well I think it comes down to the storytelling.

We find the stories that aren't getting covered, and we tell them in a way that is unique and compelling and dynamic.

And then we have an audience that craves that kind of information, and it just happens to be, for Business North Carolina, 30,000 CEOs across the state.

We provide them information about their peers, and what they're doing, and how they're being successful, and how they're not, and that provides lessons for them in how to tailor their businesses to those practices.

- And I suspect that you also gathered data and research that therefore can help them in their business?

- Absolutely.

And like any media property, you gather a big enough audience, and then you rent their attention to advertisers, who wanna sell their goods and services.

And Business North Carolina has been around for, gosh, 40 years now.

And we had an opportunity to buy it.

I used to work at Business North Carolina, early in my career.

So I was the low man on the totem pole at that organization, left it to move to Southern Pines with The Pilot when that opportunity arose, and it was pretty neat to be able to come back 20 years later as the boss.

- [Nido] Yeah.

[laughing] - And so we- - And be the publisher.

- Well, I'm not the publisher.

We've got a very good one in Ben Kinney.

I'm the president of the company.

- I see.

- But Ben, I try and, like you do here- - What is the difference between the president and the publisher?

I mean, a publisher is more about the revenues, the hiring, and firing, and so on, right?

- That's right.

- The strategic direction of the paper or the magazine?

- When we bought Business North Carolina, Ben was doing such a great job with it.

- [Nido] I see.

- We bought it with the understanding that he would stay on.

- He would stay on, I see.

- And so that's why- - It was more of a social issue than it is- - Right.

So that's why I took the title president.

- [Nido] I see.

- My function is just to stay out of Ben's way.

He does a great job.

- And what other magazines do you have in North Carolina?

- We publish Walter Magazine in Raleigh, O. Henry Magazine in Greensboro, South Park Magazine in Charlotte, and PineStraw Magazine in Southern Pines of Pinehurst.

- And those are what?

Those are more style magazines?

What is the focus of these magazines?

- We try not to use lifestyle magazines.

We call them arts and culture magazines.

And all of them are the leading magazines in their cities.

So we feel like our goal is to become the best media company in North Carolina.

And we've gotta be in those cities, if you wanna cover North Carolina, you've gotta cover the three largest cities.

- And those are controlled circulation?

Or are they subscription as well?

- They're a variety of different circulations.

Some we print, and rack and stack 'em around the- - I see.

- Some we mail.

- And events and restaurants, or whatever, yeah.

- Yes, sir.

They're in all four markets, we're out of magazines by the 10th of the month.

They're very popular publications, they're very attractive.

We have New York Times bestselling authors who write for those publications, so we feel like a magazine that is distinguished by its editorial excellence will find an audience, and that has been the case in all four examples.

- Now David, your DNA comes from a very rich history.

I mean, your family has been in the publishing business in one form or another for generations.

Give us a bit of history about David's family and father and uncle.

- So I'm the fourth generation in my family to be a newspaper publisher in North Carolina.

So my great-grandfather started the Raleigh paper in 1895.

My grandfather succeeded him, and then my uncle succeeded his father.

- Your uncle being Frank Daniels?

- Frank Daniels Jr. - Yes.

- My grandfather, Frank Daniels Sr., and then my great-grandfather Josephus Daniels.

In 1996- - Were they all North Carolina citizens, or did they- - Yes, sir.

- Originally, your great-grandfather?

- He was from Wilson, North Carolina.

- Mm-hmm.

- And it's my mother's family, so therefore, I have a different last name.

- Yes, yes.

- So we sold the paper in 1995, the Raleigh paper, after 100 years of ownership.

And while the paper sold, my ambition to be a newspaper publisher didn't transfer with that sale, and I was, what, 29 years old.

And came up with the idea of trying to buy the Southern Pines Pilot, and- - Which by the way is a weekly paper, correct?

- It's twice a week.

- Twice a week.

What days?

- Wednesday and Sunday.

- And why Wednesday and Sunday?

Why not Monday and Friday?

- Well, Wednesday, in North Carolina, Wednesday is the day that all the grocery stores put their circulars in the paper, and Sunday across the country, Sunday is just the most popular day to read a newspaper.

- People have more time and that to read the paper.

It's a morning newspaper?

- Yes sir.

So I've always believed there's great power in audacity.

And at 29 years old, I walked into my uncle's office and told him I wanted to buy The Pilot and move my young family to Southern Pines, and he should've laughed me out of his office, but he didn't.

And he said well, I'll write a letter for you.

So I went and called on Mr. Regan, and took me about two years, but I talked him into selling us the paper.

And I didn't have any money, by the way.

[Nido laughing] So I had to go raise the money.

And it all worked out.

- Yeah.

- So by being, but when I got there, I went to my first rotary club meeting.

And somebody said what's your goal for The Pilot?

And I said well, I want it to be the best community newspaper in America.

And they laughed at me like I told a joke.

Whole room busted, I was serious.

And they laughed at me.

Which was a nice motivator, by the way.

Well now, fast forward 28 years.

We've been named the best community newspaper in America five times.

- [Nido] Wow.

- So that is what, by setting a big goal and motivating your staff to chase that goal, good things can happen.

- And that's what you mean by fortune favors the bold?

- Yes sir, I do.

- What does that mean?

It means take risks, be courageous?

What does it mean?

- I think it means don't be afraid to fail.

All of my friends who just had a newspaper, they have one newspaper serving one market, they're all gone now.

If you're able to diversify your media holdings and spread your overhead over multiple product lines- - [Nido] So critical mass.

- You will be sustainable.

And a sustainable media property is one that I think will be around, well I mean, it just serves its community better.

- So you're talking about efficiencies of scale?

- [David] Yes sir.

- Is that what you mean?

So how does, so I assume what you mean by that is you have one finance person who handles all of these publications, and you have, I don't know what else, you still have to have separate editors and separate writers.

- We do, and we want to have, each market has its own unique style- - Focus.

- And focus.

- Yeah, yeah.

- So we wanna have it so we have, in each market, we have a sales staff and an editorial staff.

- [Nido] What about design?

- All that is done- - Graphic design?

- That is all centralized.

- Centralized?

- In Southern Pines.

- Yeah, yeah.

- So our accounting and personnel functions are all done centrally.

- Mm-hmm.

- And then the local color comes from the local personnel.

- Yes, I understand.

I understand.

So then one day, you decide to buy a bookstore in Southern Pines.

Explain to me, I mean, I do see a relationship between publishing magazines and newspapers and books.

I do see some relative behavioral relationship.

But what got into your brain that day, fortune favors the bold, and you said I wanna go buy this bookstore.

- Well, we say our core purpose is to serve our community.

And the lady who owned the bookstore was a great friend of mine, and she had passed away, and her dying wish was somebody local would buy the paper.

Or not buy, I'm sorry, would buy the bookstore.

- [Nido] Yes.

- And a lady bought the bookstore on the promise that she would move to town.

And it wasn't nefarious.

She bought a home in town, but it was a vacation home, so she managed the store absentee.

And I would walk by the store, and it's just right around the corner from the paper, and I'd walk by, and the shelves were bare, and the staff was demoralized, and it just broke my heart to see it, and I knew that it wasn't long for the world.

So I decided if you're gonna say you serve your community, I can't imagine our community without The Country Bookshop in it.

It's pull position in the middle of our main street.

So I bought it.

And I had a young cousin who was living in New York, and I convinced her to move to Southern Pines and run it.

Of course she's done a great job for us these 13 years.

And I gave her an unlimited advertising budget in all of our properties.

And every month- - For which she paid nothing?

- Yeah.

Well I'd tease her that every month Kimberly exceeds that unlimited budget.

[Nido laughing] But because of that, she has gone out and recruited authors of international renown to come to our town.

So last year, we average about two a week, so we had a little over 100 authors come to town.

Of those 100, 14 of them were New York Times Bestsellers.

- Yeah.

- [David] So that adds, creates a very rich cultural tapestry- - Yes.

- For our community.

So we had James Patterson came twice.

David Sedaris came.

Ellen Hilderbrand.

Erik Larson.

And giving that, Amor Towles.

All of those authors came to our community.

- And people got to meet them and buy the books, and get their autograph.

I've often wondered why would a James Patterson go sit in a bookstore and sign 100 books.

I mean, financially speaking, it's an obligation, is it not?

I mean, when they sign a big deal with an advance with a publisher, part of the responsibility they have is to do a tour.

- Yes sir.

- Part of the tour is to appear in bookstores?

- Yes.

- I've often wondered, I mean how does that materially affect the sale of a book?

So 100 here, 200 there.

In a digital age where you can promote it and sell a million somewhere?

- Well, in the book business they call it hand selling.

- Hand selling?

- Hand selling.

And I would say that the independent bookstores, in The Country Bookstore, we're typical of this, are taste makers, and if they like a book, and they sell a book, that book will be a bestseller.

- I see.

It's almost like a survey.

It's almost like research to see how the public at large likes a book or doesn't like it.

- Well, I think it's a little more than that, Dr. Qubein.

They're in the business of selling books.

- [Nido] Yeah.

- And so we'll take James Patterson.

He came to town, and we filled up the biggest auditorium we had.

Sold 715 books that day.

- Oh, I see.

That many.

- And then I think, I don't know if it was Patterson, but we had an author, sold 725 books in Southern Pines.

The next day, he went to New Orleans.

NFL city.

One of the top 15 cities in America.

Sold half as many.

So we're getting these authors because we're delivering results.

- [Nido] Yeah, yeah.

- [David] And it goes back to what we always say- - Yeah.

- We're very proud that we're from a small town.

But we say so we'll always be small town, but we'll never be small time.

And when we can deliver results like that, these authors know it, and that small town North Carolina, there's business being transacted there, and they wanna be a part of that.

- You own a small town that's very famous, though, David.

You know, what with golf, and the weather, and all these people who wanna move there and have second homes, right?

I mean, it's not just any small town.

It has a fabric and a fiber and a uniqueness of its own.

- So Southern Pines and Pinehurst, obviously, Pinehurst is a resort community.

- [Nido] Yes.

- Known the world over.

- Yes.

- 43 golf courses within 10 miles of my office.

We've hosted three US Opens.

We've got our fourth US Open coming this summer in 2024, so we're very excited about that, and it takes a village to put on an Open, so every aspect of our community is mobilized to make that a success.

And a lot of our growth economically comes from hosting these international golf tournaments, and as golf was a net winner from the pandemic, we have a lot of activity because of that.

- Mm-hmm.

Where do people stay when they come?

I mean, I don't know how many people come.

It's gotta be thousands upon thousands.

Stay at people's homes, or?

- Well we've got a lot of, we've got the Pinehurst Resort, and then we've got Pine Needles Resort, and Mid Pines Resort.

I think we probably have 3500, 4000 hotel rooms in the county.

And people rent out their homes, as well.

Quite a controversy around that, so people renting out their homes.

- [Nido] What is the controversy?

- Well, I think it's, the Airbnb, and people rent out their homes for a week to guests.

- You mean neighborhoods may not like that because of- - Some do, some don't.

- Yeah.

- It just depends.

But it's a debate that takes place in the pages of our newspaper.

And I think- - As in letters to the editor, or?

- Stories, letters to the editor, columns, advertisements.

And if, what we try to say is the newspaper exists to serve its community.

So even an issue like short term rentals, if the conversation starts with what's best for the community, as a community, we'll come up with a better solution than if it's well what's best for me?

Or what's best for this small group of people?

If everybody gets to weigh in- - Yeah.

- It works.

- And that's how economic growth happens, right?

You bring the big company in the community, some people don't like it, it adds traffic, it adds some commotion, but it creates jobs, it elevates people's income, and so on.

David, are you writing yourself?

- Not as much as I used to when it was just the newspaper.

Now that we're publishing all these other things, I can't write as much.

So I always joke that I'm the B team.

So when somebody gets sick at Business North Carolina, I write their daily newsletter.

We have an editorial page at the newspaper, and I work on that twice a week, but I don't write most of them, unless the editor gets sick, and then I have to fill in for them.

- And speaking of editorial page, in the old days, I don't know how it is now, in the old days, when newspapers had all the staff in the world, and all the circulation in the world, the editorial page was basically dictated as to what goes on it by the staff coming around a table, sitting there talking about what's going on, and then coming up with a perspective that they want to communicate.

How is it done now?

Is it the publisher who says, who might have certain leanings, political, social, economic, or otherwise, says say this?

I mean, there are newspapers that I think have ruined the reputation because the editorialization of the paper has gone so much in one direction or another.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

- You're not.

I would say at The Pilot, we don't all get around a table and talk about that.

The editorial page belongs to the owners of the paper.

It does not belong to the news writers of the paper.

In fact, we very much by design keep them out of it.

We believe that news should be objective.

- I see, yeah.

- [David] And as impartial as possible.

- Editorial is more opinion, yes.

- So we want the folks who go out and cover the news, and if they came to interview you, we want you to feel like your voice was heard in the news story, that you had a fair shake in the news story.

If they're writing opinion, then they wouldn't feel that way.

So we keep the news pages separate from the editorial pages.

On the editorial page, that is the role of the editor and the publisher- - Who could skew it any way they want.

- It's their opinion.

- So really what you're saying is when I read a newspaper editorial page, I should really first say who's writing it, because they're presenting their own point of view.

- Well, they're presenting the newspaper's point of view.

- Yeah, the newspaper's point of view.

And I may or may not agree with it.

- Right.

Well, I always love when somebody calls me up, and in a community newspaper, they do.

Or stops me at the grocery store and says that editorial was the most biased editorial I've ever read.

And I always kinda joke and say well those are the best ones.

[both chuckle] Because they're an opinion piece.

They're not meant to be a cold account of what happened.

- And people read it, and it creates some commotion, and some discussion and some dialogue, and sometimes that's the intent of it, to get people thinking and doing.

Well David, you're doing so many things.

It's fascinating.

We can talk all day.

I have a million questions about where publications are, and where they're going.

But I thank you for being with me today on "Side By Side".

[bright music] [bright music continues] - [Announcer] Funding for "Side By Side" with Nido Qubein is made possible by- - [Narrator 1] We started small, just 30 people in a small town in Wisconsin.

75 years later, we employ more Americans than any other furniture brand.

But none of that would have been possible without you.

Ashley.

This is home.

- [Narrator 2] For 60 years, the Budd Group has been a company of excellence, providing facility services to customers, opportunities for employees, and support to our communities.

The Budd Group.

Great people, smart service.

- [Narrator 3] Coca-Cola Consolidated is honored to make and serve 300 brands and flavors locally.

Thanks to our teammates.

We are Coca-Cola Consolidated.

Your local bottler.