>> Hakim: Welcome to the 2026 Democratic primary debate between Deb Haaland and Sam Bregman.

Brought to you by Dukes Up.

We're here.

Yes, yes, you can clap for that.

We're here in CNM█s Smith Brasher Hall.

My name is Hakeem Bellamy and I'm thrilled.

And I'm thrilled to be introducing this unique event.

So excited.

I wore my suspenders because they said, hold on to your seat tonight.

Our goals are simple.

To educate the public about these two candidates for governor, and experiment with the debate medium to engage New Mexicans who might not otherwise be thinking about or participating in electoral politics.

For the most part, you'll probably recognize the format.

Each candidate will get 90s for opening remarks, and at the end of our program, they'll both get a minute to sum up.

In between, come to questions each.

Each one authored by community groups that Dukes up chose based on their work protecting democracy and liberty in our state.

And in case anyone is wondering.

Neither the candidates nor anyone from their campaigns have seen these questions in advance.

Our moderator will alternate directing questions to each candidate, so the candidate who gets the first question will have 90s to answer it.

Their opponent will then have 60s to rebut, followed by a 32nd response from the first candidate.

Y'all can follow the clock on the screens behind me.

When time's up.

These red lights will flash and the candidates mic will be cut.

Don't worry, Miss Haaland and Mr.

Bregman have agreed to the muting.

It all sounds pretty standard debate, right?

Well, here's where things get a little different.

Dukes up has chosen a jury of five undecided voters and empower them with a vital role in tonight's proceedings.

After candidate one gives their 92nd answer to a question from the moderator, these folks will decide whether the candidate answered it or straight up ducked the question.

The job's not to decide whether, well, the crowd likes that part.

The job's not to decide whether they liked the answer, or even whether the delivery was smooth instead.

Here's the assignment.

Jury.

Did the candidate answer that question?

That's it.

Now, these five folks are holding handy little signs, and they've been asked to hold them up high if they think the candidate answered the question.

Can we get a demonstration?

Thank you.

Thank you.

Jurors.

If we don't see at least three of the five holding up their signs, that candidate forfeits their right to a 32nd response to that question.

Stakes is high.

Makes sense.

Good.

Makes sense.

Good.

Just a couple of little notes before we get going.

First, on recording the proceedings.

You want to grab a picture, take a quick video and toss it up on your Instagram.

No problem.

But be cool.

Be cool.

Remember, the people behind you can't see if everyone's got their arm up recording the whole time.

Plus, this debate is going to air on TV on Thursday night and we can't have all y'all stealing our thunder.

We're hoping to get the 12 questions tonight, so we're going to keep things moving.

To that end, we're asking y'all here in the auditorium not to boo, hiss, clap, cheer and the like in response to candidate statements.

Do your best.

No matter how they make you feel.

Do your best.

If you just have to weigh in.

Pop on your phone flashlight and hold it up and then put it down.

I promise the candidates can see them and soak in the cameras.

We've got one exception to that rule.

You can go ahead and clap here in a second as we bring the candidates out.

Please welcome our first debater, Sam Bregman, district attorney of Bernalillo County.

Welcome, Mr.

Bregman.

And let's welcome his opponent, Deb Haaland, a former secretary of the US Department of the interior.

Welcome, Miss Haaland.

And you're a lucky bunch, because tonight, your moderator is Gwyneth Doland professor of practice in journalism at the University of New Mexico.

She is an award winning journalist and a longtime correspondent for our broadcast partner, New Mexico PBS.

Her job is to guide tonight's discussion and ensure a fair, substantive conversation.

Gwyneth, this microphone and the debate stage is yours.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you.

Hakim.

Thank you.

Take that with you.

Thank you all.

I'd like to thank you all for being here.

I thought that student part of the event was really fun.

And I'd like to welcome our candidates, Mr.

Bregman and Miss Haaland.

Thank you so much for being with us tonight.

Thank you.

Based on the results of the student competition, Mr.

Bregman will go first for the opening statements.

Mr.

Bregman, >> Bregman: can I ask you a quick question before you start the time, what's the red light mean or something?

How much time left?

>> Gwyneth: It goes off when you're done.

Oh, so it's going to say you're done.

It's over.

>> Bregman: Okay.

All right.

Sounds great.

>> Gwyneth: Okay, so you have 90 for your opening statement.

Go for it.

>> Bregman: Thank you so much.

And thank you all for being here.

This is an amazing crowd.

I certainly appreciate it.

And I'm honored to be in front of all of you.

All.

You know, I know these.

This event tonight is called Debate games.

But I think you'll all agree with me that who the next governor leading this state is not a game.

It's so very, very important.

Who's going to take on the best and stand up the best to Trump and the chaos coming out of Washington, D.C.?

And who is going to face the real problems we have right here in this state?

Crime were first in crime.

We're 50th in education.

We don't just have a health care issue.

We have a health care crisis right now in New Mexico.

And we have so many issues involving economic opportunity and economic development and affordability.

And the one thing I hear traveling this great, big, beautiful state time in and time again is, are we going to have a state where our kids can have the opportunity to stay right here in New Mexico and have that opportunity to stay right here in New Mexico and support a family?

Or is it going to be a place where there is no opportunity?

And I'm telling you, I think the next governor needs to be someone who's going to get things done.

I have a track record of getting things done.

I'm going to get things done.

We're going to make it safe for neighborhoods.

We're going to educate our kids better.

We're going to take care of this health care crisis, and we're going to have opportunity for everybody.

Thank you very much.

Wow.

>> Gwyneth: We move now to Miss Haaland.

And I remind you, let's not have clapping in between because we want to get to all these questions.

And the clapping is going to kill our time.

Miss Haaland, you have 90s?

My name is Deb Haaland.

I'm a proud member of Laguna Pueblo, and I'm really happy to be here with all of you.

Thank you to CNM.

Thank you to everyone who worked hard to put this event on, I believe a better New Mexico as possible when children can read sooner, when New Mexicans can access quality health care regardless of where they live, when New Mexicans feel safe in their neighborhoods, and when we could actually put a hot meal on the table every night and have a roof over our children's heads.

Trump is making that so difficult.

He's making people sicker, hungrier and poorer right here in New Mexico, cutting Medicaid, cutting Snap benefits, kicking people off of of the benefits that they need and deserve to raise their families.

I have the leadership that we need for the next governor of New Mexico.

I've managed one of the largest departments in the federal government, 70,000 career staff and $18 billion budget, and I did that for four consecutive years.

I have a record of getting things done.

I protected land right here in New Mexico.

We moved to clean energy transition forward for our entire country.

50 solar projects right here in the southwest.

I would like to be your next governor, and I would be so honored to have your support.

Thank you.

>> Gwyneth: And we move to the first question, which goes to Mr.

Bregman.

This question comes from the New Mexico Center on Law and Poverty, a single mother of two who earns New Mexico's median household income can still struggle to cover rent and health care.

What concrete, measurable changes would she see in her life within the first two years of your administration?

And how would you make those changes happen?

Mr.

Bregman, you have 90s.

>> Bregman: Thank you.

There are too many people suffering, too many people on the edge.

Number one.

I'm going to double the size of the child care.

Child care, child tax credit.

I'm going to double the size of the working family tax credit.

We are going to make sure that this surplus, for example, this surplus, because of the illegal war that's going on in the Middle East right now, has risen, has raised the the gas, the groceries all across this state.

It's the affordability is a real issue.

It's a real issue for a family.

And I'm going to tell you something right now, the the natural resources that are that are being used and it's being increased by the price of oil going up, we're going to take advantage of and we're going to give it back to the people to help offset offset this, I'm going to give a $500 credit right back to people, those people that are actually suffering because of the gas prices, suffering because of the affordability issues.

The grocery store people need help, and we have to have a governor who's willing to recognize that when it comes to the $500 for a family of four making under $200,000, that comes down to $2,000.

That's real, meaningful help for people right away to help offset, because it's all of the people's natural resource.

The price of oil at $100 a barrel, this state state's going to make between a half a billion and a billion and a half dollars more a year.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Mr.

Bregman.

You.

Oh, and the jury has voted.

You answered the question.

So you retain your 32nd response.

Right now, Miss Holland, you have 60s of a rebuttal.

>> Haaland: Absolutely.

Well, yes, we need to enhance the child tax credit and the working families tax credit.

We need to have a public option for health care for New Mexicans.

People need to be able to access health care.

Health care costs are through the roof.

And that will help make sure that New Mexicans have more money in their pockets at the end of the month.

New Mexicans need a raise.

Plain and simple.

And we need to keep universal child care, because that would help that single mom to make sure that she could have a 40 hour a week job while her children are safe.

That would have changed my life as a single mom if I would have had universal child care.

So we need to keep that.

No matter how many Republicans sue the governor and try to take it away.

We also need to think about clean energy that lowers utility costs for New Mexicans.

What I think we need to do is every single thing possible to lower the cost, so people can afford to put a hot meal on the table for their families, and we can have a better New Mexico.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Mr.

Bregman.

You have 30s.

>> Bregman: We have to stand up.

Universal child care.

We don't just have to support it.

We have to actually stand it up.

We have got an opportunity here to be different from every other state in the entire country.

The question is whether or not we are going to make sure we get it done right.

We've got to do a survey from top to bottom to find out all over this state where there's a childcare desert, where we are having trouble finding people to help in this very, very important cause.

And I'm thrilled and excited and we can get this done.

We just have to have a leader who's going to stand up and get it done.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you for that, Mr.

Bregman.

This next question comes from Dukes up.

Revenue from oil and gas continues to fill New Mexico's permanent funds and accounts for a larger and larger share of our budget.

How, if at all, would you seek to diversify revenue streams, and what role would taxation have in such an effort?

Miss Holland, you have 90s.

>> Haaland: Thank you so much.

First of all, I'll tell you, I was at a tribal community, a tribal council meeting, and one of the councilmen raised his hand and said, are we a rich state or a poor state?

That's an interesting question because we have a lot of money in our funds, but we need to reinvest it so that New Mexicans can have something.

Right?

We can reinvest in tech startups.

We have two national labs here.

We need to make sure that we can reinvest in tech startups, that these startup businesses, small businesses, that that are the lifeblood of New Mexico can move forward in a big way.

We need to reinvest in our existing industries, the film industry, trained camera people and production people all over the state because that's what our education system provides to them.

We need to make sure that New Mexico is a leader in the film industry.

I know that the strikes and so forth have done a number on on the film industry, but I think we can bring it back and we really need to any industry that does come to New Mexico, however, we need to make sure that it's sustainable, that we are protecting our precious natural resource of water.

That will be extremely important in our high desert communities in the midst of the climate crisis.

Thank you very much.

>> Gwyneth: And the jury says, answered, all right.

You've retained your 32nd response, Mr.

Bregman.

You have 60s rebuttal.

>> Bregman: We're a rich state.

We're a rich state because we have $75 billion in wealth funds, but that is not shared with every person, obviously, in this community and in this entire state.

Too many people don't make the kind of incomes to be able to support their families the way they should.

We have to diversify our economy.

When it comes to two things, I'll point off right off the bat energy and high tech.

We need to make sure that we use the oil revenue that we have to expand into the future, to build that future so that renewables, so that we are ready and willing and able and making sure we do what we need to do with renewables, wind, solar, geothermal, hydrogen.

There is so much opportunity here.

We've got to have the leadership to get it done.

We have to build out the capacity and the transmission of electrician of electricity, and if we do that, we're going to be in great shape.

But there's also the high tech from Los Alamos all the way down the Rio Grande to the border, our high tech industry and the possibilities there is amazing.

We got to get it done and you need leadership to do it.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Mr.

Bregman.

This you have 30s now, miss Haaland.

>> Haaland: thank you so much.

I agree with my opponent and I'm I'm grateful that when I was in Congress, I had an opportunity to bring $140 million right here to New Mexico for those tech startups and all of the the things that my opponent was talking about.

Also grateful that I had an opportunity to move transmission lines all the way through the southwest.

We did that because we brought people together.

We brought all the stakeholders together to collaborate on how we traversed state land, federal land, private land, tribal lands.

>> Gwyneth: Whoops.

We're out of time on that one.

This next question comes from the ACLU of New Mexico.

Mr.

Bregman, you'll get this one first.

New Mexico residents increasingly interact with technologies that collect, analyze, store and share personal data things like online shopping and search engines.

Yet the state still lacks a comprehensive data privacy law to regulate how this information is used and protected.

As governor, what specific policies would you implement to limit mass surveillance and establish strong, enforceable data privacy protections for all New Mexicans?

Mr.

Bregman, you have 90s.

>> Bregman: I'm absolutely in support of strong data privacy protections for all of us.

We just saw what took place with the attorney general and Meta already in in one part of that lawsuit.

The second part is there.

Now they're threatening that apparently apparently, that they're not going to willing to be doing business in New Mexico because they don't care enough about kids to put in certain protections.

That is outrageous.

It is absolutely wrong, that mindset.

And we of course, need to protect people's privacy.

Let's just look at reproductive health, reproductive health and Texas trying to call New Mexico and get license plate numbers from people that are traveling in New Mexico for women's reproductive health.

That is outrageous.

And I'll stand up against it every single time.

There is no way we're going to let others take the information that we have and use it against our people here in New Mexico.

I will make sure not only through executive order, but pushing through and codifying in statute, that we protect people's privacy and we make sure that that no bad actors, regardless of who they are, going to get Ahold of people's data in an inappropriate way and use it for a bad way.

Thank you, Mr.

Bregman.

And the jury says, answered.

All right, Miss Haaland, do you have 60s for rebuttal?

>> Haaland: Thank you.

What I'll say is that right now, Donald Trump is working to get all our voter information.

That's information that needs to stay right here in New Mexico.

I'm grateful for our Secretary of State who told him to take a hike.

But look, we need to protect these things for New Mexico.

I am also grateful for the recent lawsuit that took place.

We need to make sure that our children are educated about the internet and about social media, so that their parents can keep an eye out so they can opt them out.

These are laws and regulations that we should have to protect our kids.

Above all.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Miss Haaland.

Mr.

Bregman 30s >> Bregman: Every single day at the DA's office, I'm reminded of the fact that juveniles are getting guns using the internet to do it.

This is a real concern, the use of the internet for improper, all kinds of improper things is unacceptable.

And we're going to continue to hold people accountable, whether or not it's making sure we do everything we can to shut down particular apps, or whether or not it's just a big picture, making sure we have laws that protect people when it comes to their data privacy.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Mr.

Bregman.

We're on to question four this comes from Indivisible Albuquerque.

Miss Haaland, you'll go first.

Oil and gas is a double edged sword for New Mexico.

On the one hand, exploration and drilling provides a large part of the New Mexico state budget.

On the other hand, that same exploration and drilling uses a large portion of our fresh water and causes significant pollution.

Governor Lujan Grisham pushed to allow fracking wastewater to be treated and reused for industry.

What is your position on the reuse of fracking wastewater?

Miss Haaland, you have 90 seconds.

>> Haaland: Thank you so much for the question.

And of course, the science is still out on produced water.

None of us know what produced water contains, and we shouldn't be able to let it loose in any streams or anywhere in our drinking water supply, because I believe that's very dangerous.

As Secretary of the interior, I manage the U.S.

Geological Survey.

All the scientists that our country needs to to investigate and research these dangerous you know, these dangerous things to make sure that they're safe for our country.

And I believe very strongly that we need a thorough research of this water.

Gas and oil companies need to be upfront about what chemicals they're using.

And this needs to be completely transparent to the people of New Mexico.

We have to operate in a transparent manner.

This is our state.

The people of this state rely on the state to keep them safe.

And that is exactly what we should do.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Miss Haaland.

And the jury says answered.

Okay, Mr.

Bregman, you have 60 seconds.

>> Bregman: Produced water, brackish water, all different reused water of any type.

We need to make sure it's cleaned up, that it's fresh, and that we make sure that we protect every precious drop of water that we possibly can.

But we also have to build out our resources and recognize the fact that our city parks here, for example our cleaned up sewage that's watering the parks.

We know that the golf courses cleaned up water that's watering the parks and the golf courses.

Here's the deal, though, at the bottom line.

We have to get a hold of this water issue because it is so vitally important for the future of this state when it comes to economic development, when it comes to agricultural, when it comes to the acecias, when it comes to what we're going to do, when it comes to data centers, to everything else that water has an effect on, we better get this right.

The good news is we also sit on an underground aquifer, and I'm looking there and I'm running out of time.

But we sit on the largest brackish water aquifer.

>> Gwyneth: All right.

You saw there that the mics get cut after the time is up.

So that's what you're not hearing there, miss Haaland you have 30 seconds.

>> Haaland: I would just say that there is such a, you know, the difference between produced water and recycled water is vast.

Produced water, it's dangerous because we don't know what's in it.

And so we need to make sure that we are protecting our precious natural resources, that we are not allowing any dangerous chemicals in the water that people use for everyday life.

Our children deserve to have clean water.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Miss Holland.

Question five is for Mr.

Bregman.

This is from the center for Biological Diversity Action Fund.

Many New Mexicans say that they are increasingly concerned about the environmental impacts of large scale data centers like Project Jupiter.

Even with their amended approval proposal, the facility could produce more air polluting emissions than New Mexico's three largest cities combined, while consuming millions of gallons of water in an already arid region.

How would you approach the construction of hyperscale data centers like Project Jupiter?

What specific policies would you implement to address constituent concerns about air pollution, water use, and affordability associated with the growth of hyperscale data centers in New Mexico?

You have 90 seconds.

I love when the questions almost as long as the time I have to answer, however, I will answer it and we can start now.

Maybe.

All right.

Maybe it's already cooking.

Listen, if done right, data centers can provide a benefit to a community and actually accelerate clean energy.

If done right, we need to make sure and put certain and put certain guidelines in place to make sure it's done right.

Now, what do I mean by that?

For example, water, fresh water.

And it doesn't necessarily need to be used for data centers.

I would mention brackish water just a second ago, cleaned up desal, brackish water for industrial use that can work and it█s shown to work because it works all over the world.

Desalinization.

We know that, when it comes to energy, data centers cannot increase the cost of energy to any consumers in New Mexico.

We have to get ahold and make sure that they're not doing that.

We also need to make sure there█s guarantees that there's going to be no disruption to the grids, but the jobs, the jobs of data centers, the construction jobs alone are huge.

They're a lot.

So we have to have a governor who is willing to balance those interests to make sure that our environment is absolutely protected, but also making sure we're taking advantage of economic development where we can.

And that's the that's the job of a governor is to try and help balance those things and make sure we're doing the best we can to provide economy that works for our citizens and an environment.

>> Gwyneth: You're out of time, Mr.

Bregman.

I would like to remind the audience that we are not having interjections while the candidates are talking out of respect for them and for everyone else who came here to listen, the jury says, did he answer the question?

He answered the question.

Okay, Miss Holland, we have 60 seconds for you.

>> Haaland: Thank you.

Water again.

Precious natural resource.

And I think that data centers, they need to go along with the clean energy goals that we have set for our state.

They shouldn't be able to generate power from gas powered microgrids and all of these other things.

They need to they need to move along with our goals that we set for our state.

Look, the way I look at data centers, we can create construction jobs by building affordable housing, right?

We need that all over the state.

There are teachers in Roy New Mexico who have to live in their travel trailers.

Because there is not affordable housing for public school teachers.

We can find jobs for New Mexicans.

We can create lots of jobs with the things that we need here in this state.

I just believe very strongly that data centers are not don't have the best interests of our community at heart, as evidenced by the fact that they are not being transparent.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Miss Haaland.

We are moving on to question six.

This comes from the Hospital Workers Union, District 1119 of New Mexico.

And this is for Miss Haaland first.

Health care unions have played a key role in improving quality patient care, staffing and working conditions for health professionals.

Do you support strengthening collective bargaining rights for health care workers in New Mexico, and how would your administration partner with unions to improve patient care?

Miss Haaland, you have 90 seconds.

>> Haaland: I absolutely would.

I think it's imperative that we grow our labor unions here in New Mexico, because collective bargaining will make sure that they have a livable wage, that they have the benefits that they deserve.

I also believe very strongly, well, if I'm governor, I'm having a union person in my office to make sure that we are listening to unions, that we're moving laws forward, that we need to to protect them.

Workers right now are sometimes bowled over by private equity.

Private equity brings, you know, Wall Street into the doctor's office.

And we need to make sure that we are listening to the employees, the people who work there, not just the doctors, nurses, nurse practitioners, but also the people who work in IT, the janitors, the people who cook the food.

These are all important jobs, and we need to make sure that they have a seat at the table when decisions are made about their livelihoods.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Miss Holland.

The jury says you answered it.

And, Mr.

Bregman, you have 60 seconds here.

>> Bregman: So I'm very honored that I have the endorsement of the Health Care workers Union 1199 I'm honored by that.

But I will tell you that I will also lead as governor the charge to make sure we have safe staffing when it comes to nurses.

Not only are we lacking 6000 nurses in this state, which is a real concern, but we don't have safe staffing levels and that's not good for the nurses.

And it certainly isn't good for our patients.

And I will I will absolutely do an executive order immediately to make sure we have safe staffing levels.

I will encourage the legislature to codify it in the statute with real penalties and holding hospitals feet to the fire to make sure to absolutely make sure that there are safe staffing.

These are people's lives we're talking about.

These are patients.

This is patient care.

This is too important to mess around with.

And the fact that we don't have safe staffing levels is a real concern.

Collective bargaining always will support.

Collective bargaining always has.

I've done it my entire life in public service.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Mr.

Bregman.

Miss Holland, you have 30 seconds.

>> Haaland: I support unions, I support safe staffing.

I support all of those things.

I've had about ten round tables with employees of hospitals, people who work in these in this industry and care for our people every single day.

If we want New Mexicans to have affordable health care, we need to make sure that we're listening to the employees that are providing it.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Miss Holland.

Mr.

Bregman, I made a mistake.

>> Bregman: You did, but I didn't call you out on it.

>> Gwyneth: I got distracted and I shorted you your 30 second response on the question about hyperscale data centers, I'd like to give you 30s to go back to that or to this if you want it.

>> Bregman: Just can you just add 30s to my next answer?

>> Gwyneth: Yes we can.

>> Bregman: Okay, there we go.

We'll take that.

>> Gwyneth: We will do that.

>> Bregman: Whatever we got going.

Good.

Okay.

>> Gwyneth: Okay.

So this next question is for you and we'll adjust the clock.

This question comes from the Jewish Voice for peace.

Elected Democrats at the state and federal level have opposed Trump's illegal military actions and the transfer of weapons to countries in violation of U.S.

and international law.

What role, if any, would you take as governor against federal military action and weapons transfers that violate U.S.

and international law and shift money away from domestic programs like Medicare, Medicaid, housing, and other essential programs?

Mr.

Bregman, you have 90 seconds plus 30 seconds.

>> Bregman: So, listen, I think we can all agree on this war that's going on with Iran that Trump has started is an illegal war.

Never gotten the authorization from Congress as is required.

It's extremely troubling.

Every single person in this country is suffering because the increase in prices.

But there's people suffering all over the Middle East.

We know that.

We know what happened and what's been happened in Gaza, what's happened in Israel.

There's a lot of suffering going out there.

And, you know, obviously, the governor of the state of New Mexico doesn't have authority over our military, our foreign affairs, but they have the bully pulpit.

And you can't ever hesitate to use that bully pulpit when necessary.

And I will always stand up for people, and I'll always stand up for New Mexicans.

And when these things take money away, whatever they may be from things like Medicaid, it's a real problem.

And the nice thing is, because of the legislature's foresight and the governor's urging, we have had a couple of special sessions that filled in the back end of that big beautiful BS bill, if you will, when all those cuts to Medicaid.

And that made a big difference, because we were able to make sure that no New Mexican falls through the cracks.

And that's what the next governor is got to do, because it's the number one priority of any governor is the health and well-being of its people.

And so we have to focus on that, and we have to make sure at every opportunity, we are not letting anyone slip through the cracks.

And I will always stand up, make sure that Donald Trump and all the other chaos coming out of Washington is very clear on where we stand in New Mexico, and I'll be a leader on that issue.

Now, do we have control over the military or how it's spent in federal dollars?

No, but we can be a voice and we can be pretty, pretty adamant about our position.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Mr.

Bregman.

Miss Haaland, you have 60 seconds.

>> Haaland: Thank you so much.

Yes, it's heartbreaking to know that $25 billion has already been spent on this war.

And it, you know, in such a short time.

And yet we're going to have 40% of our residents here in New Mexico do without Medicaid by next year.

And so I will say that I was a member of Congress.

And so I know how these things work.

And honestly, I'd call members of Congress to help note so they know how I feel about this issue, that we need to hold the federal government's feet to the fire.

Trump has an obligation to New Mexico.

We have 23 Indian tribes here.

We have two national labs.

We have military bases, VA hospitals.

We have federal workers all over the state.

He has an obligation to our state.

And I'm going and I know how to hold his feet to the fire because I've done it before.

I was on the House Armed Services Committee when I served in Congress.

I completely know how those budget meetings and in those meetings worked.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Miss Holland.

I am the one who's losing this debate because I forgot to ask the jury after your answer.

Jury, did Mr.

Bregman answer that question?

Thank you very much.

All right.

Zero points to me, two to the candidates.

Mr.

Bregman, you have 30 seconds now.

>> Bregman: Thank you.

I actually am not aware Deb of any holding Mr.

Trump█s feet to the fire on your part, but I'll accept your answer for what it is.

We have to make sure.

And every single instance, every instance that we stand up, that we, if necessary, go into court against the Trump administration because he's hurting New Mexicans.

We do everything possible when he hurts New Mexicans to stand up and do something about it.

And I will do that.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Mr.

Bregman Question eight comes from the NAACP of Albuquerque, and it will go to Miss Haaland first.

The New Mexico Office of African-American affairs was created in 1999 to study, identify, and provide solutions to issues affecting the African American community.

Would you support recreating the Office of African American Affairs as the Department of African American Affairs, and giving it control and oversight over the African American Performing Arts Center?

And what other ways would you seek to empower this department to improve outcomes for New Mexico's African American community?

Miss Haalland, you have 90 seconds.

>> Haaland: Thank you so much.

It sounds like a great idea to me, honestly.

We need to make sure that every single community in New Mexico can thrive.

And I would say that there's a lot we can do.

If it was a department, then you have staff and you have a budget, and you have things that you can do to address the issues that the African American community is going through.

I think that I think that the only way you get to from point A to point B is to make sure that you invite people to the table.

When I was secretary of the interior, I had convening power, and I used it to the best ability because we there were a lot of things that we needed to move forward.

And so I think if we want to be expeditious and efficient about this issue, that we need to make sure that members of the African American community have a seat at the table, that they are regularly consulted when issues affect their communities, and that we listen to them.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Miss Holland.

And the jury says that she answered the question.

So, Mr.

Bregman, you have 60 seconds now.

>> Bregman: So the question is whether or not I support the idea of can you repeat the question?

The department?

the important part here is >> Gwyneth: The important part here is would you support recreating the Office of African American Affairs as the Department of African American Affairs?

>> Bregman: So yes, I would, but the question is we need to make sure we're staffing when we do department staffing so they can actually get things done.

Too often in state government, we don't staff our agencies and our departments, and then people end up not getting the job done.

People get false hopes that that department is going to do something and it doesn't do anything.

And I think part of that question also was whether or not giving an oversight of the of the African American Performing Arts Center, and I would agree with that as well.

But here's what we got to do.

I think because we live in such a wonderfully diverse, diverse state, we live in the most diverse state in this entire country, and I don't think anybody can argue with that.

We need to make sure we support all of our communities, but we also need to make sure we're taking care of all of our different communities, whether or not it's African Americans, Native Americans, Hispanics, we we know what we need to be doing in this state, and that means we need to be educating.

We need to be making sure everybody has affordable, accessible health care.

We need to be educating our kids.

>> Gwyneth: Mr.

Bregman, thank you, Miss Haaland You have 30 seconds.

>> Haaland: Thank you.

I mean, there's not much more to say on this.

I want to bring people together.

I want people to have a seat at the table before decisions are made.

That's how you have durable outcomes.

That's how you can make sure you're doing what you need to do for the communities that are a part of the state.

So that's what I would do.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Miss Haaland.

Question 9 comes from the Tribal Education Alliance.

It goes to Mr.

Bregman, first.

The state's public school system has failed to provide native children a sufficient education.

New Mexico law and court rulings in the education lawsuit, known as Yazzie/Martinez, required the state to ensure that native children receive a culturally relevant education with access to all necessary resources and supports.

What actions would you take to implement these mandates?

Mr.

Bregman, 90s seconds.

>> Bregman: Yazzie and Martinez was a wake up call for this entire state on the need to make sure we do what we have to do for our kids and their education.

When it comes to Native American children.

I will tell you that -- one of the most important things that the leaders of the various pueblos and tribes and I've been endorsed by Sandia, Ohkay Owingeh, the Jicarilla Nation, I'm very grateful for those endorsements.

One of the things that they tell me is we want to make sure we preserve our culture and our language -- and that's fair.

And they should be able to and we need to actually consult with and have real consultation between leaders of our tribal communities and the public education department and have real back and forth about how can we help accomplish these goals, because we know the state of New Mexico needs to do a lot better when it comes to educating our kids, specifically in the area of transparency, specifically in the area of accountability.

We need to hold everybody accountable in the system.

We don't do a good job of that.

We don't have to be 50th in education for the rest of our lives.

Mississippi and us used to compete with who is going to be 50th in the country.

We're still 50th and they're 13th in this country.

We can do better.

And the way they did it was hold everybody accountable.

Education has to be the single biggest priority.

If we don't educate our kids, shame on us.

We should do a lot better than that.

And the PED needs to step up.

Everybody needs to be transparent and we need to be accountable on this issue.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Mr.

Bregman.

And the jury says he answered it.

Okay, good.

Miss Haaland, you have 60 seconds.

>> Haaland: So, the decision was reached by the court in the Yazzie/Martinez case, and the stakeholders -- they didn't like the plan.

So we need to go back to the table.

We need to make sure that we are collaborating on a plan with the stakeholders, because they need to like the plan.

They need to agree to the plan.

They need to -- they█re the stakeholders.

They know what their communities need to make sure that they're living up to the decision of the court.

And so I would again, would use my convening power to make sure that we're all at the table making -- talking about this and moving a plan forward.

You know, I met miss Yazzie when I was in Gallup on one of my campaign trips, and she told me that she filed that lawsuit when her child was small.

He was he was a young boy, and now he's out of school, right?

She wasn't able to get this finalized or across the finish line for the person that she loved most in this world, we have an obligation to our children.

>> Gwyneth:Thank you, Miss Haaland.

Mr.

Bregman, 30 seconds to you.

>> Bregman: We can do better -- even if it's just -- It's a simple idea, but let's make sure that PED identifies those struggling schools.

Those schools were classrooms are falling behind it.

Those first and second graders send in master tutors, super teachers get them to help they need in those classrooms to get them up to third grade level, so they make sure they're not falling behind for the rest of their entire education.

PED needs to have a rapid response team to do just that, and we can do that.

Thank you, Mr.

Bregman.

The next question comes from Yucca Action and this goes to Miss Haaland first.

It says, we believe that New Mexico has been treated as a sacrifice zone for generations, from uranium to fossil fuel pollution to militarism.

And our communities pay the price every day.

Do you agree that oil and gas extraction causes health and environmental harms, and if so, what would you do to address them?

90 seconds to you, Miss Haaland.

>> Haaland: Thank you so much.

As you were reading that question, I was thinking about the fact that I'm from Laguna Pueblo, and we were home to the largest open pit uranium mine in the world for 30 years.

They blasted twice a day, nine underground, three open pit mines.

My cousin lost his hearing.

People lost their lives.

When they left uranium blowing around for 25 years before they came back to clean it up.

That is a story that can be reiterated across New Mexico and so many communities, right?

I was grateful that the amendments to RICA passed.

The Tularosa Down Winters, who came into my office when I was a member of Congress.

We all cried together because they had a whole eight by ten sheet with names of people they knew who had died.

This has to stop.

Yes, we have too much pollution here.

We have too much legacy pollution.

And I think we need to clean up the legacy pollution, as well as ensuring that any operation is operating the cleanest possible way.

And so, so our children deserve no less.

I would make sure that we are doing whatever we need to do to pass the regulations we need to pass to make sure that these extractive industries clean up after themselves.

That's not too much to ask.

I've been I've seen those oil wells or gas wells with the infrared camera and the methane just spewing out of them.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Miss Haaland.

And the jury says.

Answer Okay, moving on, Mr.

Bregman.

60 seconds.

Bregman: I'm a rule of law kind of guy.

I have been my whole entire life.

I obviously enforce the law every single day.

As the district attorney here I will tell you, I will not hesitate to hold bad actors accountable 110 percent of the time.

In other words, those who are willing to violate our water, pollute our water, our land, our air, we have to hold them accountable.

And I certainly will do that as the next governor.

We also need, for example, we also need to hold accountable those people who are who are willing to come in and drill a well and then leave and leave an orphan.

Well, there.

That is something that's a real problem.

And we need to make sure we're holding them accountable to pay for the cleanup.

And if they're not, we keep chasing them down and making sure that we do hold them accountable.

We can do this.

I know we can.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Mr.

Bregman.

Miss Haaland 30 second to you.

>> Haaland: Thank you.

Nothing means more to me than our children growing up in a clean environment.

And, I mean, that's why I'm running for governor, its for the kids.

They deserve that.

And as governor, I will make sure that that's something that is my priority.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you.

This next question comes from Dukes up, and it will go to Mr.

Bregman first.

Many New Mexicans watched the federal immigration raids in Minneapolis with horror.

Imagine that a similar operation was launched here in New Mexico while you were governor.

How would you lead New Mexico's response?

90 seconds >> Bregman: I think it's been very clear, and I hope that most of you all have seen my position on this, what I saw going on in Minneapolis and Minnesota with busting a driver's side window and pulling someone out, or shooting someone without any reasonable suspicion, probable cause, judicial warrant, and asking them for their papers is not the country that I grew up in, and I will not tolerate it.

It's it's unconstitutional policing.

It is a violation of state law here.

I will hold anybody and everybody accountable under the rule of law.

ICE comes into New Mexico and violates the law.

I will charge them with a crime like I will anybody else.

Just because you have a badge and a gun does not make you above the law.

What happened in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

What's happened all over the country, is absolutely unacceptable.

I have fought for people's human rights and constitutional rights my entire life.

I have represented people and I have held up because I believe in this Constitution.

It's not just words on a piece of paper.

Every day we have to give it meaning.

And that Constitution and that Fourth Amendment says, no, you cannot be unreasonably, unreasonably held, unreasonably searched.

We have to make sure we give that real meaning.

And I will do that.

I've already made a very strong signal that I sent a letter to ICE, as you all know, when I was, as D.A., telling them, don't have your agents come in here, violate state law, and think for one second that I won't prosecute them for it.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Mr.

Bregman.

And the jury says, answered Miss Haaland, you have 60 seconds >> Haaland: Thank you.

First of all, if I'm the next governor of New Mexico, I'm not allowing any state resources, or cooperation, or any state resources to be spent on ICE when they come into New Mexico.

Of course, ICE needs to be transparent.

They should not wear masks.

No law enforcement officers should wear masks here in New Mexico when they're operating.

So I would work with the legislature to pass laws to make sure that that is, that those laws are passed.

I should we should pass laws, say ICE should not be at public schools.

They should not be at courthouses.

They should not be at sacred sites.

They should not be in churches or religious sites.

These are areas where New Mexican should feel safe.

And right now, when we have ICE in southern New Mexico harassing Native Americans for their citizenship papers, it's untenable.

And as governor, I would work to protect every single community here in New Mexico.

>> Haaland: Thank you, Miss Haaland.

Mr.

Bregman, 30 second response.

I've been very clear about this position, and I will continue to be very clear as governor, we're not going to put up with it.

I have to tell you, though, the idea and I know this because people have told me this as the DA, that masked people are pulling people over, getting out of the car and saying, prove to me you█re a United States citizen it's unacceptable.

They get a driver's license and now know the address of the young woman that they pulled over.

Don't know identification.

We don't know who actually that is.

What this, this whole chaos that Trump█s >> Gwyneth: Whoops.

That was 30 seconds.

And we have been, we have arrive at the last question.

This is for you first, Miss Haaland, This comes from Dukes up.

Blackstone, the world's largest private equity company, has applied to take over our largest public utility company, PNM.

Many residents are concerned that Blackstone's proposed takeover of PNM would lead to higher energy prices and worry about its potential interest in expanding data center development in the state.

What is your position on Blackstone's proposed acquisition, and what would you do to address constituent concerns about their takeover?

Miss Haaland, you have 90 Seconds >> Haaland: Thank you so much.

First of all, we've seen what private equity has done to our health care system.

They█ve invited Wall Street into the exam room.

It's terrible that our private equity, their first priority, are their shareholders, not the community, not New Mexicans.

And so I'll just say that Blackstone, if this deal goes through, and I'm actually encouraging anyone who has a voice on this to make sure that they're using their voice.

If this deal goes through, their feet need to be held to the fire about any community investments that they're promising, the rate increases that they're not promising.

We need to make sure that they're operating in a transparent manner, because New Mexico is one of the highest private equity states in the country, and it isn't right.

They don't put New Mexicans first.

They put their shareholders first.

This is not all about money.

We need to care about our communities, and we need to make sure that any industry that's coming to New Mexico, they are making their community investments.

They are not using New Mexico as a piggy bank.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Miss Haaland.

And the jury says answered it.

Okay, Mr.

Bregman, you have 60s.

The legislature passed in 2019 the Energy Transition Act.

It proposes, and I think, laudable goals to make sure that we get to renewables 80% renewables by 2040 and 0% carbon by 2045.

Those are great goals, and I think everybody in the room would love to see that happen.

But here's the deal, right.

It's going to take a lot of building out our capacity and our transmission lines.

And PNM, PNM doesn't have the money to do that.

It's going to cost a hell of a lot of money.

So PNM does not have the money to actually make sure that we live up to statute requiring 80% renewables and 0% carbon by 2045.

So with certain specific conditions, number one, rates do not go up.

Ironclad real contract with real consequential damages.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Mr.

Bregman.

Miss Haaland, you have 30 seconds.

>> Haaland: Thank you.

As I said, as I said, our communities need to be protected.

If we if we're if we have industry here in New Mexico, if we have private equity, it needs to work for New Mexicans.

And that's the bottom line.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Miss Haaland.

That is the end of our questions tonight.

I would like to move now to closing statements.

Each candidate will have one minute for a closing statement.

Mr.

Bregman, you'll go first.

You have one minute.

>> Bregman: Well, thank you all so much.

I appreciate this.

As I mentioned before, I appreciate being at the debate games, but the games of the future are not games.

They're serious when it comes to the governor's race.

This is too important.

We have two many challenges and we need leadership.

And I have established and proven that leadership at the district Attorney's office.

We have changed that office to the better.

We have made real differences in the safety of this community.

Not enough by any means.

No victory lap.

But we have a lot to do with what comes to this state improving health care, education, public safety, economic development, affordability.

And we need someone who's going to get things done.

And I've been very consistent on getting things done at the DA's office my whole life and standing up for people.

Now, I want the opportunity to stand up for every single New Mexican.

I'm running for governor to improve the quality of lives, the quality of life for every New Mexican.

Thank you all.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you.

Mr.

Bregman, you may applaud.

Thank you, Miss Haaland.

You now have one minute.

>> Haaland: Thank you all so much for having me and my team.

We're so happy to be here.

Look, everyone, this is a break.

Last moment.

We have a chaotic administration in Washington, D.C.

that is wreaking havoc across our state, health care, education, SNAP benefits.

People are losing these benefits right and left.

And so leadership does matter.

I have a record.

I have a record of protecting our natural resources.

I have a record of moving clean energy forward.

I have a record of managing a very large department, and I'm ready to be New Mexico's next governor.

I believe that a better New Mexico is possible when our children can read sooner, when people can see a doctor when they're sick, when folks feel safe in their neighborhoods, and when they can put dinner on the table every night without worrying about it.

I invite you to join our campaign.

We would love to have you.

Please join our other 12,000 volunteers who have signed up to help us.

You can go to Deb Haaland dot com Thank you.

>> Gwyneth: Thank you, Miss Haaland.

Thank you, thank you audience.

I have a little bit more to say, so I'd like you all to sit down because I have some thank yous.

I'd like to thank both candidates for being here with us and for participating in our format and for giving my trespasses.

I would like to thank the audience for mostly following the rules.

You guys did a great job.

I didn't have to shush you.

I want to thank the people who are watching at home, and I want to thank our jury.

Thank you very much.

Everybody applaud for the jury.

Thank you to the organizations who submitted these questions.

And on behalf of Dukes Up and New Mexico PBS Thank you for joining us.