WELCOME TO "KENTUCKY TONIGHT."

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING us TONIGHT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HISTORICAL HORSE RACING.

THE KENTUCKY SUPREME COURT RULED LAST SEPTEMBER THAT CERTAIN HISTORICAL HORSE RACING GAMES OFFERED AT RACETRACK PARLORS IN THE STATE WERE UNLAWFUL.

IN LATE JANUARY, THE STATE'S HIGH COURT DENIED A PETITION FOR A REHEARING FILED BY THE KENTUCKY HORSE RACING COMMISSION AND SEVERAL STATE TRACKS, WHICH CAUSED THE RED MILE'S HHR OPERATIONS TO TEMPORARILY SHUT THESE ELECTRONIC GAMING DEVICES THAT RESEMBLE SLOT MACHINES, ALLOW GAMBLERS TO BET TO ON RANDOMLY GENERATED, PREVIOUSLY RUN HORSE RACES.

THEY BROUGHT IN $2.25 BILLION IN FISCAL YEAR 2019.

IT'S BEEN A DECADE'S LONG DISPUTE BETWEEN THE CONSERVATIVE, ANTI-GAMBLING GROUP FAMILY FOUNDATION OF KENTUCKY WHO'VE ARGUED THE GAMBLING DEVICES ARE ILLEGAL AN NEED APPROVAL BY WAY OF A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT AND HORSE INTERESTS WHO SAY THE GAMING MACHINES HAVE PLUMPED RACE PURSES AND HELPED THEM COMPETE WITH OUT-OF-STATE TRACK AND HORSE BREEDING OPERATIONS.

THE KENTUCKY GENERAL ASSEMBLY I NOW CONSIDERING A BILL TO LEGALIZE THESE SLOT-STYLE GAMES BY REDEFINING PARI-MUTUEL WAGERING IN STATE LAW.

SENATOR JOHN SCHICKEL IS THE BILL'S SPO HE'S CHAIR OF THE SENATE LICENSING AND OCCUPATIONS COMMITTEE AND HE JOINS US TONIG.

HIS FELLOW PANELISTS ARE: SENATOR WHITNEY WESTERFIELD, A REPUBLICAN FROM CROFTON.

BILL LEAR, ATTORNEY FOR THE KEENELAN AND MARTIN COTHRAN, SENIOR POLICY ANALYST AND SPOKESPERSON FOR THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF KE WE WANT YOU TO JOIN THE CONVERS.

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THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN, FOR TOLERATING THAT EXTREMELY LONG INTRO BUT WE FELT LIKE WE KIND OF NEED TODAY STETSET THE TABLING HERE, RIGHT?

BECAUSE THIS IS A NEW TOPIC, MR. LEAR, FOR A LOT OF PEM.

THEY HAVE HEARD ABOUT HHR.

HEARD OF SLOTT RANGES AND INSTANT RACING AND THINK IT'S ALL THE TIME.

TELL US WHAT HHR STANDS FOR, WHAT IT MEANS AND HOW IT'S SIM LOR OR DISSIMILAR FROM TRADITIONAL SLOT MACHINES.

>> HHR IS HISTORICAL HORSE RANGES.

IT'S REALLY AN INGENIOUS APPLICATION OF TECHNOLOGY THAT ALLOWS ATTORNEYS SIT AT A MACHINE AND BET ON PREVIOUSLY RUN HOR RACES.

THEY ACTUALLY HAVE HANDICAPPING INFORMATION AVAILABLE IF THEY WANT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT ONE OF THE FAVORITE WAGERS IN LIVE RACING TODAY, A PICK FIVE OR A PICK SIX WHERE YOU TRY THE PICK THE WINCHES SEVERAL RACES AND THE POOLS WINNERS OF SEVERAL RACES, AND THE POOLS BUILD UP, THIS ALLOWS TO YOU PREVIOUSLY PICKS FIVES OR PICK SIX IN SHORT ORDER.

THAT'S WHAT IT DOES.

BUT UNLIKE THE SLOT MACHINE WHERE YOU'RE BETTING AGAINST THE HOUSE AND HISTORICAL HORSE RACING, YOU'RE NETWORKED AT KEENELAND AND RED MILE, IT'S ANTOKE.

ONE OF THE MAJOR TOKE COMPANIES THAT'S INVOLVED IN IS LIVE RACING.

SO IF YOU WIN, YOU WIN BASED ON WHAT OTHER WAGERERS HAVE BET AND PUT IN POOLS FROM OTHER RACES.

IF YOU LOSE, THEN THE MONEY GOES IN AND IT GOES TO OTHER PERSONS.

IT DOESN'T GO TO THE HOUSE.

AND THAT'S A KEY DIFFERENCE.

THE MACHINES DO LOOK IN SOME RESPECTS LIKE WHAT YOU WOULD CALL A TRADITIONAL SLOT MACHINE BUT THEY DON'T ACT THAT WAY, SO YOU CANNOT JUDGE THIS BOOK BY ITS COVER AT ALL.

AND THEY'RE REALLY NOT THAT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN THE AUTOMATED TELLER MACHINES IN THE WAY THE INSIDES OF THEM WORK.

THE AUTOMATED TELLER MACHINES THAT YOU'LL SEE AT A RACETRACK.

>> SO I WANT TO ASK MR. ROTH COTHRAN HOW HE THINKS MR. LEARS DESCRIPTION OF THOSE MACHINES, HOW ACCURATE YOU THINK THEY ARE AND THEY DO LOOK AND SOMEWHAT SOUND LIKE IT.

THEY ALL DON'T HAVE HORSES ON THEM, RIGHT?

SO IF YOU WALK INTO THE RED MILE, WOULD YOU INSTANTLY KNOW, WHICH YOU CAN'T RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THEY'RE TEMPORARILY SHUT DOWN, FUTURE BUT TALKED ABOUT IN THERE WOULD YOU WOULD YOU KNOW THAT'S AN HHR MACHINE AND THAT'S NOT A SLOT MACHINE?

>> WELL, ONE WAS A HORSE PICTURE ON IT, AND THAT'S SORT OF TRUE.

I AM SAY THIS ABOUT BILL'S DESCRIPTION.

THAT'S NOT WHAT THE KENTUCKY SUPREME COURT FOUND.

THE KENTUCKY SUPREME COURT FOUND THAT THESE ARE NOT PARI-MUTUEL HORSE WAGERING.

THAT IS THE REQUIREMENT.

ONLY CHARITABLE GAMING, KENTUCKY LOTTERY AND PARI-MUTUEL HORSE WAGERING ARE ALLOWED UNDER OUR CONSTITUTION, AND COURT WENT OVER THE FIVE CRITERIA FOR WHAT EXECUTES PARI-MUTUEL WAGERING AND SAID THIS DOES NOT MEET TWO OF THEM.

YOU'RE NOT BETTING IN A PARI-MUTUEL POOL AND YOU'RE NOT BETTING ON A SINGLE -- YOU'RE NOT ALL BETTING ON SINGLE EVENT.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE THOSE ELEMENTS.

AND ALL THE NEW BILL IS DOING IS JUST SAYING NO, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT.

IT'S CONTRADICTING THE SUPREME COURT.

>> SO BECAUSE THERE ARE MULTIPLE EVENTS, THERE'S NOT A SINGULAR EVENT THAT'S ONE OF THE DRAWBACKS THAT MAKES IT ILLEGAL.

THE INFORMATION THAT BETTERS HAVE ABOUT THESE HORSES, I MAN, THEY KNOW SOME THINGS ABOUT THE HORSES, RIGHT, TO BE ABLE TO HANDICAP BUT THEY HAVE THE OPEN HON IS JUST LETTING IT GO AUTOMATIC LIKE A SLOT MACHINE WOULD PERFORM.

IS THAT CORRECT?

>> AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND THEM, YES.

>> THAT IS CORRECT.

>> SENATOR WESTERFIELD?

>> THEY DON'T HAVE TO USE THAT INFORMATION IF 93 DON'T WANT TO.

THE SUPREME COURT -- THAT'S PARTIALLY CORRECT.

THE SUPREME COURT SAID THESE MACHINES DON'T EXECUTE PARI-MUTUEL WAGER BUT KEEP IN MIND SECTION 226 OF THE CONSTITUTION IS EXPLICITLY CLEAR.

THE ONLY TWO KINDS OF GAMING THAT ARE PERMITTED IN KERRY LOTTERIES AND CHARITABLE GAMING.

IN FACT, SUBSECTION 3 OF THE SECTION 226, WHICH WAS LAST AMENDED IN '92, REVERSE FROM '92 FROM WHAT IT WHERE IT e POLICE ENTRY PROHIBIT LOT IS BUT ACCEPT SUBSECTION 3 OF THE SECTION 226 OF THE STATE CONSTITUTION IS EXPLICITLY CLEAR NOTHING OTHER THAN LOTTERIES AND CHARITABLE GAMING IS AAL LOUD IN KENTUCKY THIS IS AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL PROPOSAL.

IF THEY WANT TO APPROACH IT AS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT I'LL E. I'D STILL APPROACH OPPOSE IT ON A NUMBER OF GROUND.

THIS IS A BAD PUBLIC POLICY AND BAILING OUT AN INDUSTRY.

BUT AT LEAST I COULDN'T COMPLAIN WITH THE -- >>> >> BUT THE KENTUCKY SUPREME COURT IN THEIR EPT IS RULING SAYS IF A CHANGE THAT IS NO LONGER TO PARI-MUTUEL IS TO BE MADE THAT CHANGE MUD BE MADE THROUGH THEIR DULY ELECTED LEGISLATORS, NOT BY AN APPOINTED JACKER BODY AND NOT ANYTHING ABOUT THE JUDICIAL BODY.

>> THEY SAY THE PEOPLE OF KENTUCKY, AND THEY ALSO MENTION d I GRATE SHOULDN'T BE DONE BY AN AGENCY THAT'S A BUREAUCRATIC BODY OF GOVERNMENT, BUT WHAT THEY ALSO DIDN'T DO WAS OVERRULE A 90-YEAR-OLD DECISION FROM THE JOCKEY CLUB CASE IN 1931 WHEREIN THE KENTUCKY SUPREME COURT EXPLICITLY SAYS THAT PARI-MUTUEL WAGER IS NOT A LOTTERY.

NOW, IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE BACK IN 1931 SECTION 226 OF THE CONSTITUTION WAS THE REVERSE.

IT EXPLICITLY PROHIBITED LOTTERIES.

AND SO THE COURT HAD EVER REASON TO MAKE SURE, THEY WANTED TO ALLOW PARI-MUTUEL WAGER, AND SO THEY SAID IT'S NOT A LOTTERY.

'92 COMES ORWHERE SOMEWHERE 226 WAS FLIPPED.

NOW IT SAYS SOMETHING, IT SAYS THE OPPOSITE.

NOW ONLY LOTTERIES AND CHARITABLE GAMING IS PERMITTED.

BUT THAT 193190 WEIRDLY COURT CASE STILL STANDS AND THE SUPREME COURT HAS NOT RULED IT OUT.

THAT COURT CASE WHICH HAS BEEN RELIED ON AND TALKED ABOUT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS IS THE REASON WHY THIS WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN FIXED THAT IS BY CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO ALLOW PARI-MUTUEL WAGERING.

>> BEFORE YOU JUMP IN, SENATOR SCHICKEL, YOUR BILL DOES NOT PROPOSE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

YOU JUST WANT TO HANDLE THIS BY STATUTE.

>> THAT'S CORRECT, RENEE.

YOU'VE ALREADY SAID THAT THE SUPREME COURT INVITED US TO MAKE A DEFINITION OF PARI-MUTUEL WAGERING, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT MY BILL DOES.

THE REASON I DO NOT FAVOR A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, AND I THINK IT'S KIND OF INTERESTING THAT MY FRIEND FROM THE FAMILY FOUNDATION, WHO I ADMIRE AND RESPECT, THINK WE DO NEED TO USE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT IS THAT WOULD OBVIOUSLY LEAD TO FULL-BLOWN CASINOS INX WE HAVE A GAME HERE THAT IS FOCUSED ON HORSE RACING, A PARI-MUTUEL GAME WHICH IS FOCUSED ON HORSE RACING, WHICH IS A PERFECT FIT FOR OUR INDUSTRY.

IT'S BEEN GOING FOR TEN YEARS, AND WHEN IT FIRST STARTED, RENEE, I DIDN'T TAKE IT TOO SERIOUSLY TEN YEARS AGO WHEN THEY FIRST STARTED.

IT'S BEEN SUCCESSFUL BEYOND OUR WILDEST DREAMS.

>> AND YOU HAD TURF WAY PARK IN YOUR DISTRICT, CORRECT.

>> WE HAVE TURFWAY PARK BUT WHEN YOU CAN'T MENTION THE TURF WAY PARK THE CONSTRUCTION HAS BEEN DELAYED.

THEY TORE IT DOWN.

BOUGHT BY CHURCHILL.

THEY FROZE INTRODUCTION AND ITS SUPREME COURT DECISION CAME OUT.

IN MY DISTRICT WE HAVE A RACETRACK THAT IS DEPENDENT ON THIS.

THIS IS AN EMERGENCY.

BUT IT'S POSH IMPORTANT TO RILE THIS HISTORICAL RACING HAS BEEN TESTED, AND IT'S UNIQUE TO KENTUCKY.

IT'S INTERESTING IN MICHIGAN, WHICH HAS CASINOS, THEY'RE PROPOSING HISTORICAL RACING, AND THE CASINOS DON'T WANT IT AT ALL.

MY BILL, RENEE, WOULD KEEP THE FOCUS ON OUR SIGNATURE INDUSTRY, THOROUGHBRED RACING, AND THE LAST TEN YEARS HAS SHOWN -- YOU KNOW, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TWO VERY ABLE LAWYERS TONIGHT ARGUE THE CALLS OF THIS, BUT THE PRACTICE TALT OF ITING DID CONSTITUTIONALITY OF THIS, BUT THE PRACTICALITY THAT IS TEN YEARS HAS SHOWN THAT HISTORICAL AMBULANCE GOOD FOR KENTUCKY AND GOOD FOR OUR SIGNATURE INDUSTRY.

I WASN'T BORN TO KENTUCKY.

I CAME TO KENTUCKY, AND I THINK SOMETIMES PEOPLE WHO ARE NATIVE TO KENTUCKY MIGHT NOT REALIZE THE SIGNIFIES OUR THOROUGHBRED INDUSTRY TO THE IMAGE OF OUR STATE.

>> MR. COTHRAN.

>> CAN I JUST CLARIFY ON THIS LANGUAGE AT THE END OF THE SUPREME COURT DECISION ABOUT REQUIRING LEGISLATIVE ACTION, IT DOESN'T SAY TO PASS A STATUTORY BILL.

THERE'S TWO WAYS THAT THE LEGISLATURE CAN ACT.

IT CAN ACTING ACT ON A A REGULAR STATUTORY BILL WHICH IS WHAT THIS IS OR IT CAN PASS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BILL.

CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT ARE GOES DONE THEREON TO THAT LEGISLATURE.

SO TO SAY THAT THAT MEANS IT DOESN'T -- IT'S NOT TALKING ABOUT A CONSTITUTIONALAO, THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT SAYS.

>> BUT IT ALSO SAYS IT CAN JUST BE DONE BY STATUTE BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

>> NOT THE DECISION.

>> ARE YOU GOING TO LET ME WEIGH NOT CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT?

Y.

>> I AM.

>> I LIKE IT WHEN PEOPLE PICK THE PARTS OF THE CASE THEY LIKE AND DON'T PICK THE PARTS THEY DON'T LIKE.

THE JOCKEY CLUB CASE, 90-YEAR-OLD CASE THEY REFER TO HAS SOME THINGS IN IT THAT ARE REALLY, REALLY INTERESTING.

ONE OF THE THINGS IT POINTS OUT IS THAT WHEN THIS CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION 226 WAS PUT IN, THE FIRST PROPOSAL WAS BY DELEGATE WHO WANTED TO BAN ALL TYPES OF GAMING.

HE HAD HAD AN AMENDMENT TO DO THAT.

OTHERS AT THE CONVENTION OBJECTED.

THAT AMENDMENT FAILED BY A VOTE OF 52-38.

HERE'S WHAT THE COURT IN THAT CASE THAT THEY WANT TO RELY ON SAYS.

THE AMENDMENT WAS REJECTED, THUS INDICATING THAT IT WAS THE INTENTION OF THE CONVENTION NOT TO INCLUDE IN SECTION 226 ANYTHING BUT LOTTERIES OF THE TYPE THAT WERE FAMILIAR AT THE TIME, AND AT THAT TIME KENTUCKY HAD A LONG HISTORY OF LICENSING LOTTERIES, JUST LIKE THE LOTTERY THAT WE THINK OF TODAY.

THEN THEY WENT ON TO SAY, IT DID NOT OCCUR TO ANYONE DURING THAT PERIOD THAT BETTING ON RACES, ELECTIONS OR SIMILAR FORMS OF WAGERING CONSTITUTED A LOTTERY.

THEY SAID FOR NEARLY A HALF CENTURY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND THE COURT OF APPEALS HAVE PROCEEDED ON THE GENERAL UNDERSTANDING THAT THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF BETTING AND GAMING WAS WITHIN THE POWER OF THE LEGISLATURE.

TO PROHIBIT, REGULATE OR CLASSIFY, THEY SAID, "GAMING, BETTING AND LOTTERIES ARE SEPARATE AND DISTINCT THINGS IN LAW AND IN FACT."

THEY CITE THE SUPREME COURT IN THE CASE THAT WAS DECIDED LAST FALL CITED THAT CASE MORE THAN ANY OTHER -- THEY CITED FOUR OR FIVE TIMES AND THEY ENDED BY SAYING, LEGISLATURE, IT'S UP TO YOU TO FIX THIS IF IT'S GOING TO BE FIXED.

THEY SENT AN ENGRAVED INVITATION TO THE MEMBERS OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, AND ON THE PART OF AN INDUSTRY THAT IS REALLY CRITICAL TO THE STATE OF KENTUCKY.

>> AND YOUR CONTENTION IS IT CONSTITUTES AN A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT NOT REQUIRED.

>> BY NO MEANS.

>> SECTION 226 REMAINS.

AND IT WAS CHANGED AND THE VOTERS AND THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAD A CHANCE TO MAKE SECTION 226 INTO WHATEVER THEY WANTED BACK IN '90S WHEN YOU WERE IN THE LEGISLATURE, BILL.

AND I DON'T KNOW, I WASN'T THERE, BUT THAT OPPORTUNITY WAS THERE, AND WE COULD HAVE BEEN CLEAR, AND THE LEGISLATURE AND THE PEOPLE COULD HAVE BEEN CLEAR IN AN AMENDMENT TO MAKE SURE THIS WAS COVERED AND PARI-MUTUEL WAGERING WAS COVERED BUT INSTEAD THEY SPECIFICALLY ALLOWED ONLY LOTTERIES AND CHARITABLE GAMING PIPE.

I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING CHAIRMAN SCHICKEL MENTIONED.

CHAIRMAN SCHICKEL MENTIONED THAT THIS BILL IS FOCUSED ON HORSE RACING.

THERE'S NOTHING IN THIS BILL THAT GUARANTEES ANYTHING FOR LIVE HORSE RACING AT ALL.

WHAT IT DOES GUARANTEE IS A STREAM OF REVENUE FOR THE TRACKS, FOR THE PLACES WHERE THESE MACHINES, THESE ILLEGAL MACHINES HAVE BEEN INSTALLED, SOME 3600 OF THEM AROUND THE STATE, I BELIEVE.

BUT THERE'S NO PROTECTION IN HERE FOR LIVE RACING.

AND I NOW HAVE ONE OF THE THESE FACILITIES, A BRAND NEW HONEY, YOU THAT CHURCHILL OWNS THAT ISN'T CLOSED.

ELLIS PARK ISN'T CLOSED THAT I'M AWARE OF.

I'M NOTE SURE WHY RED MILE DID AND THE OTHERS HAVEN'T, AND I DON'T KNOW ANOTHER LEGISLATOR THAT CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

>> I DO WANT TO GO THERE BECAUSE ARE THERE THESE FACILITIES ELSEWHERE LIKE KENTUCKY DOWNS AND FRANKLING COUNTY THAT ARE STILL OPERATING AND HOW AND WHY?

>> I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION.

AND -- >> I CAN ANSWER IT.

>> OKAY.

>> I'M SURE BILL COULD, AND I'M INTERESTED TO HEAR THAT.

IT'S CURIOUS, I DON'T KNOW ANOTHER LEGISLATOR, JOHN MIGHT ABLE TO, BUT I DON'T KNOW ANOTHER LEGISLATOR THAT KNOWS THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION.

WE'RE BEING ASKED TO LEGISLATE A PROPOSAL WE DON'T KNOW THE MAKES AND MODELS OF THESE MACHINES.

WE DON'T KNOW WHY RED MILE IS CLOSED BUT OAK GROVE GAMING ISN'T, ELLIS PARK ISN'T, TURFWAY ISN'T.

>> MR. LEAR, DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH THE EXACT ENCORE SYSTEMS?

>> KEENELAND BEING KEENELAND, WHEN THE DECISION CAME DOWN, WE MADE THE DECISION DEALS WITH ONE OF THE THREE GAMES THAT WE OPERATE, BUT RATHER THAN SHUT DOWN ONE GAME AND LEAVE THE OTHERS RUNNING, WE MADE THE DECISION TO SHUT THEM ALL DOWN.

THE REASON THE OTHERS HAVEN'T SHUT DOWN, THING JMENT -- THE COURT HAS ISSUED AN AN OPINION, THEN REFERRED IT BACK TO THE FRANKLIN CIRCUIT COURT TO ENTER A JUDGMENT.

THIS HAS BEEN A REALLY COMPLICATED CASE.

THERE I WAS ZOOM COURT HEARING THE OTHER DAY, AND WHAT THE JUDGE ENDED UP ORDERING WAS ALL THE PARTIES TO SUBMIT PROPOSED JUDGMENTS DEALING WITH IT, AND HE'S GIVEN THEM UNTIL LATER THIS MONTH.

>> THE 3rd.

>> -- TO SUBMIT THEIR PROPOSED JUDGMENT.

SO WE DON'T REPRESENT THE OTHERS OTHERS.

WE REPRESENT KEENELAND, BUT THEY'RE WAITING TO SEE THE TERMS OF THE FINAL JUDGMENT.

THAT'S WHAT THE DELAY.

>> IT SEEMS EBB SENDS A CONFUSION MESSAGE TO POLICYMAKERS BECAUSE ON ONE HAND WE'VE GOTTEN -- I'M NOT CRITICIZING KEENELAND OR THE FOLKS THERE, BUT YOU'VE GOT ONE TRACK THAT'S SHUT DOWN AND THAT'S PART OF A LOT OF MESSAGING.

AND YOU'VE GOT OTHERS THAT DON'T SEEM TO BE PHASED AT ALL BY THE, BY THE SUPREME COURT'S RULING WHICH CLEARLY SPECIFIED THAT ONE PARTICULAR KIND OF MACHINE AND HOW IT OPERATED.

BUT AGAIN, I'VE NEVER SEEN AN INVENTORY OF THE TYPE OF MACHINES.

DO THEY CALL FUNCTION THE SAME WAY AS THE ONE THAT WAS SET FORTH IN THE SUPREME COURT'S OPINION FROM SEPTEMBER?

I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT.

>> THE ENCORE -- >> THE FAMILY FOUNDATION HAS TAKEN THE POSITION THAT THE FINAL JUDGMENT, EVEN THOUGH ONLY ONE GAME WAS ACTUALLY TRIED, THE EXACT SYSTEM, HAS TAKEN THE POSITION, WHICH THE COURT MAY -- THE TRIAL COURT MAY ULTIMATELY ADOPT THAT THE JUDGMENT APPLIES TO ALL OF THE -- >> ALL OF THEM.

SENATOR SCHICKEL, DOES THAT CREATE AN URGENCY TO GET SOMETHING PASSED BEFORE THE COURT ACTS OR -- >> IT DOES.

>> -- HOW DOES THIS WORK?

>> IT DOES CREATE AN URGENCY TO GET SOMETHING PASSED.

RACING IS ON LIFE SUPPORT RIGHT NOW.

WE'RE DOING CPR.

AND A LOT OF THESE OTHER ISSUES, BY THE DON'T KEEP THE PATIENT ALIVE, ARE NOT GOING TO REALLY MATTER.

BUT I WANT TO RESPOND TO SOMETHING SENATOR WESTERFIELD SAID ABOUT THAT THIS DOESN'T DO ANYTHING FOR LIVE RACE OR NOT DIDN'T YOU PROTECT LIVE RACING.

A PORTION OF THE PROCEEDS FROM THESE MACHINES GOES TO THE PURSES AND THE PURCHASES ARE PURSES ARE THEMOREY EVER MOTHER'S MILK OF LIVE PRANKS WE HAVE SCENE A HUGE INCREASE IN OUR PURSES ALL OVER THE STATE.

IN NORTHERN KENTUCKY WE WERE HAVING TRAINERS AND HORSES COME IN THERE THAT WE HAD NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

PURSES DOUBLED AND TRIPLED.

AND THIS HAS AFFECTED THE QUALITY OF OF OUR THOROUGHBRED INDUSTRY IN THE COUNTRY.

WE'VE ROCKETED TO NUMBER -- WE'RE IN THE TOP FIVE IN THE COUNTRY.

IN, AND ALL OUR COMPETITORS HAVE MUCH BIGGER POPULATIONS THAN US.

THIS IS ALL BECAUSE OF THE SUCCESS OF HISTORICAL RACING.

THIS IS A VERY UNIQUE MACHINE THAT IS, I THINK IS NATURAL FOR RACETRACKS BECAUSE IT DEALS WITH HORSES.

AND THE INDUSTRY'S CHANGED A LOT.

ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY, RENEE, THOROUGHBRED RACING IS SHRINKING.

WE'RE ONE OF THE FEW, PROBABLY THE ONLY STATE WHERE IT'S ACTUALLY EXPANDING, AND I BELIEVE, AND THE INDUSTRY BELIEVES THAT THAT IS DIRECTLY DUE TO HISTORICAL RANGES.

>> MR. COTHRAN, AND THEN WE'VE GOT SEVERAL CONTAMINANTS COMMENTS I WANT TO GET TO IN THE CONVERSATION.

GO AHEAD.

>> WE THINK THIS ACTION BY THE LOWER COURT, WHICH WAS OVERRULED, BASICALLY ASKING EVEN THE LOSER OF THE CASE WHAT THEY SHOULD DO IN A CASE THAT THEY LOST, THIS IS JUST A MEANS OF DRAGGING THEIR FEET ON THIS, AND IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY TOMORROW MORNING WE ARE FILING A PETITION FOR A WERE IT OF MANDAMUS FROM THE SUPREME COURT TO FORCE THEM TO MAKE A JUDGMENT ON THIS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RULING, WHICH WAS THAT THIS IS NOT ARE PARI-MUTUEL RANGER WAGERING, AND WE HOPE THAT THAT MEANS THAT YOU CAN REQUIRE THESE TRACKs TO STOP THIS KIND OF GAMING.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IN A SENSE, THEN, WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS THAT THE ASSESS IS STILL OPEN.

IF THE CASE IS STILL OPEN, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A TRADITION OF THE KENTUCKY STATE SENATE NOT TO TAKE ACTION ON AN ISSUE THAT IS BEING CONTESTED IN THE COURT.

WELL, OKAY.

HERE WE ARE.

SO WHY ARE WE -- WHY ARE WE DOING A BILL WHEN THERE'S AN OUTSTANDING COURT CASE ON IT?

>> I DO WANT TO ASK SENATOR SCHICKEL THAT BEING THE SPONSOR.

TO MARTIN KOTH REASONS POINT.

>> MARTIN ISN'T ENTIRELY CORRECT.

I'VE SIGN IT DONE BOTH WAYS.

WE HAVE NOT I DIDN'T BUT WE'VE ALSO I DIDN'T IN THE PAST, SO THAT HAS NOT BEEN -- >> SNARF WESTERFIELD.

>> IT'S A RULE THAT I'VE ALWAYS SEEN APPLIED.

I'VE SEEN RULES OF MY OWN GET STOPPED BEFORE THEY GOT FILED BECAUSE IT'S RELATED TO IN SOME WAY EVEN TANGENTIALLY TO PENDING LITIGATION.

I'VE NEVER SEEN THAT NOT FOLLOWED, SO IT DOES BEG THE QUESTION, AND I HAVEN'T SPOKEN TO ANYBODY IN LEADERSHIP ABOUT THAT, ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR BILL, BUT IT'S BEEN A PROCEDURE THAT WE HAVE FOLLOWED IN THE PAST, AND FOR GOOD REASON.

IF WE START WADING INTO DISPUTES THAT ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A COURT BATTLE, EVERYONE IN THOSE COURT BATTLES, WHETHER IT'S GOT TO DO WITH SLOT MACHINES, HORSE RACING OR FILL IN THE BLANK OTHER SUBJECT MATTER, THEY'LL BE COMING TO BOTH CHAMBERS TO LEGISLATE, TO TRY TO FIX THE RESOLUTION BEFORE THE COURTS CAN HEAR THE MATTER.

SO I RESPECT THAT RULE, AND I THINK IT'S A WISE ONE.

NOT SURE WHERE WE ARE ON THAT AS A CAUCUS.

>> ARE YOU SCHEDULED TO VOTE ON THIS WHEN CAN?

>> I BELIEVE IT WILL BE SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

>> TOMORROW?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

RENEE -- >> IF THE VOTES ARE THERE.

>> THAT'S JUST SLIGHTLY DISINGENUOUS ON THEIR SIDE.

THEY KNOW WHAT THE SUPREME COURT SAID.

THEY KNOW WHAT THEIR LAWYERS ARE GOING TO SAY.

THE SUPREME COURT FOUND TWO PRIMARY FAULTS WITH THE EXACTA GAME.

THAT WAS THAT PEOPLE ARE BETTING ON DIFFERENT RACES AT DIFFERENT TIMES.

THE REGULAR EGGS REQUIRE THAT, BY THE WAY.

THE REGS THAT THEY HELD VALID IN 2014AL LOUT.

THEY DON'T ALLOW IT, THEY REQUIRE IT.

AND THE USE OF SOMETHING CALLED A SEED POOL, WHICH IS A WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT MINIMUM AMOUNT IS IN TO PAY A WINNING WAGER IF THE POOL HADN'T BUILT UP.

NOW, THAT'S ALSO REQUIRED BY THE REGS.

SO IF ONE ASSUMES THAT ALL OF THE OTHER GAMES HAVE THOSE TWO FEATURES, AND THEY DO, THEY KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING.

THAT'S DISINGENUOUS.

THEY KNOW WHY THIS THING SURGENT, AND THEY SHOULD TELL THE 225 PEOPLE THAT WE LAID OFF AT THE RED MILE THAT THERE'S NOT -- OR THAT THERE'S NOT URGENCY.

>> I WANT TO RESPOND TO THAT IF I COULD, RENEE PITCH KNOW YOU'VE GOT COMMENTS, AND I MEAN THIS WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, BILL, AND THIS GOES TO ALL OF THE EMPLOYEES AND NONE OF US, NONE OF US ON EITHER SIDE OF THIS WANT JOBS TO BE LOST.

AND NONE OF US WANT THAT FOR ANYBODY.

I DON'T THINK YOU'D FIND THAT IN ANY CHAMBER IN ANY CAUCUS IN THE LEGISLATURE.

BE BUT THIS IS AN ERROR, AND A LEGAL ISSUE THAT THE TRACKS WALKED INTO OPEN EYES.

AND THE FACT THAT THE LITIGATION BEGAN BY THE TRACKS, A ONE-SIDED CASE WAS INITIATED BY THEM IN 2010 IN JULY OF 2010, ASKING FOR THE COURT TO SAY, ARE WE DOING SOMETHING THAT'S ILLEGAL OR NOT?

THEY DID THAT.

WITHOUT AN ADVERSARIAL PRESENCE UNTIL THE FAMILY FOUNDATION ENTERED THAT LUTE, AND THE SUPREME COURT COURT IN 2014 SPOKE TO THAT, REND THAT ISSUE MOOT BUT MADE THE IMPORTANT POINT YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN ADVERSARIAL PROCESS.

BUT THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT IS THEY'VE NO ONE THIS WAS ON SHAKY LEGAL GROUND, AND I WONDER WHETHER THAT FACTORED INTO THE DECISIONS BECAUSE THE COURT CASE HAS BEEN PENDING FOR TEN YEARS.

AND FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS, I WONDER IF THEY'VE BEEN TOLD WHEN THEY WERE HIRED, BY THE WAY, NOW, WE'RE BRINGING YOU IN BASED ON THE REVENUE HERE THAT'S ON SHAKY LEGAL GROUND.

WEIR WE'VE NOT SURE.

WE'RE FIGHTING IT.

WE HOPE WE CAN WIN.

I THINK IT'S DISINGENUOUS TO THINK ABOUT US, AND THE OPPONENTS OF THIS CAUSE ARGUING THAT WOULDN'T PEOPLE TO LOSE THEIR JOBS WHEN THIS IS AN ERROR, A QUICKSAND TRAP THAT THE TRACKS WALKED THEMSELVES INTO OPEN EYES.

>> SO THIS TO YOU, SENATOR WESTERFIELD FROM KAILEY WILSON.

SHE'S FROM HOPKINSVILLE.

I WORK AT OAK GROVE RACING AND GAPING.

WHY ARE YOU AGAINST A LOCAL BUSINESS THAT I HELPING OUR COMMUNITY AND PROVIDING JOBS WHEN WE NEED THEM MOST?

>> I'M ALL FOR LOCAL JOBS AND LOCAL BUSINESSES.

MY PROBLEM WITH THIS IS THAT IT'S GAMING.

SO I THINK GAMING IS BAD PUBLIC POLICY FROM THE GET-GO, KAILEY, AND I DON'T WANT TO HITTER ANYONE'S JOB AND I DON'T WANT TO HURT THE INDUSTRY.

THE HORSE INDUSTRY.

BUT GAMING I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH.

I OBJECT TO IT BECAUSE IT RELIES ON THE LOSSES OF OUR PEOPLE, AND IT USUALLY RELIES AND STUDIES SHOW THAT IT RELIES MOST LOIT LOSSES OF OUR POOREST.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT CHURCHILL DOWNS AND KEENELAND SHOULD MAKE THEIR ENDS MEET, I DON'T THINK STATE GOVERNMENTS FOR SURE SHOULD MAKE THEIR ENDS MEET FROM THE LOSSES OF OUR POOREST PEOPLE.

SO FROM A PHILOSOPHICAL POINT GAMING OF ALL -- IN ALL ITS FORMS BOTHERS ME AND I OBJECT TO IT, AND I WISH WE COULD GET RID OF THE GAMING THAT WE HAVE.

THAT'S WHY I'M AGAINST THERE.

SECONDLY THE BAIL-OUT.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LEGISLATING TO SAVE THE HOUSE FROM ITS OWN BAD BET.

THEY MADE A WAGER THINKING THAT THEY COULD WIN THIS CASE AND THAT THEY WEREN'T DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL AND WEREN'T DOING ANYTHING UNJUSTIFIED OR UNAUTHORIZED BY STATE LAW, AND THEY LOST, AND NOW THAT THEY LOST, THEY'RE COMING RUSHING TO THE LEGISLATURE ASKING FOR HELP BECAUSE OF THE JOBS AND THE ECONOMIC IMPACT.

WELL, THE ARGUMENT NEEDS TO BE SAID THAT THEY APPRECIATED THAT RISK ON THE FRONT END, AND AS I'VE -- AS OUR FOLKS IN OUR CAUCUS JOHN LIKED TO TALK ABOUT, WE SUPPORT FREE MARKETS.

SOMETIMES YOU SUCCEED.

SOMETIMES YOU DON'T SUCCEED.

>> CAN I ADDRESS THAT TOO?

SHE TALKS ABOUT LOCAL BUSINESSES.

THESE MACHINES ARE LIMITED TO CERTAIN FAVORED, LARGE HORSE RACING TRACKS.

PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS.

THIS IS NOT A FREE MARKET.

YOU CAN'T HAVE THESE AT THE LOCAL GAS STATION.

YOU BASICALLY HAVE HERE WHAT FUNDAMENTALLY AMOUNTS TO CHARTERED MONOPOLIES.

OKAY.

THESE ARE ONLY ALLOWED TO BE OPERATED BY CERTAIN VERY LARGE ENTITIES SUCH AS CHURCHILL DOWNS, WHICH IS A VERY RICH CORPORATION.

THIS IS A MILLIONAIRE'S STIMULUS BILL.

A LOT OF THIS MONEY IS GOING TO GO TO CHURCHILL DOWNS, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS HAVE ALREADY MADE THEIR WAY THERE, TO A COMPANY THAT HAS HAS PUBLICKY TRADERRED STOCK WHICH MEANS ITS OWNERS ARE ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY.

>> AND YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS IS GOING TO COME DOMINATE AND ACTUALLY COME TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE HORSE RACING.

>> MECHIZED GAMBLING DRIVES HORSES OUT.

IT HAS DeMINT NEVADA.

YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

IT'S OFFERING AN INCENTIVE FOR PEOPLE NOT TO GO TO THE TRACKS IN A CERTAIN SENSE TO SEE HORSES RACE BECAUSE THIS KIND OF GAMBLING IS FAR MORE EFFICIENT, FAR QUICKER, FAR MORE LUCRATIVE FOR THE PEOPLE RUNNING IT THAN HORSE RACING IS SO WHERE THESE ARE TRACKs GOING TO GRAVITATE HERE?

>> I APPRECIATE SENATOR WESTERFIELD'S CANDOR ON THE WAY HE FEELS, AND I KNOW HE'S VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, AND HE SAID IT HIMSELF, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS HE'S AGAINST ALL GAMBLING, EVEN PARI-MUTUEL GAMBLING, AND THIS STRICT INTERPRETATION WOULD EVEN THREATEN THE PARI-MUTUEL GAMBLING AT OUR TRACKS RIGHT NOW.

THERE IS A DISTINCT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PARI-MUTUEL WAGER, WHICH HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR OVER 100 YEARS IN KENTUCKY, AND BETTING AGAINST THE HOUSE AND CASINOS TYPE GAMBLING, AND THAT'S WHY IT BAFFLES ME SO MUCH TO HEAR PEOPLE SAYING, WELL, WE NEED TO DO THIS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT SO WE CAN HAVE -- BECAUSE THAT IS GOING TO LEAD US DOWN THE ROAD TO OPEN GAMBLING.

THE OTHER THING I WANT TO SAY IS, YOU KNOW, I HEAR BUSINESSES, CHURCH LITTLE DOWNS DEEM UNITED STATES AND TALKED ABOUT DAD ABOUT BUT THEIR A CORPORATION, A PUBLICALLY TRADE CORPORATION.

ANYBODY CAN OWN THEM IF THEY HAVE STOCK.

I DON'T HAVE ANY STOCK IN THEM BUT YOU CAN GO OUT AND BUY A FEW SHARES OF THAT STOCK.

I NOTICED IT'S NOT RATED REAL WELL RIGHT NOW.

BUT A LOT OF THESE TRACK WITNESS WE'VE GOT ELLIS PARK WEEK KENTUCKY DOWNS, TURF WAY PARK IN MY AREA.

THESE TRACKS ARE STRUGGLING AND THE PEOPLE THAT WORK AT THESE TRACKS, THEY'RE STRUGGLING, TOO, AND WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT INSTITUTIONAL ARGUMENTS, AND I RESPECT CONSTITUTIONAL ARGUMENTS AND WE HAVE TWO VERY ABLE LAWYERS HERE THAT CAN DO THAT, BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK TO THE FUTURE, AND WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS INDUSTRY AND SEE WHAT'S BEST FOR THIS INDUSTRY.

AND NOT EVERYONE -- THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS INDUSTRY ARE NOT FAT CATS MAKING A LOT OF MONEY.

MOST OF THEM BARELY HAVE THEIR HEAD ABOVE THE WATER.

>> AND I WANT TO MENTION THESE TWO COMMENTS THAT WE RECEIVED.

ONE FROM PROSPECT, DOWELING MILKER, WHY IS IT A GOVERNMENTAL ISSUE?

HOW I WISH TO DISPOSE OF MY INCREMENTAL INCOME?

THIS IS A TRAV STIFF GOVERNMENT CONTROL AND FRANKLY NONE OFNER BUSINESS.

AND THEN THIS IS A QUESTION HERE ABOUT LETTING THE VOTERS DECIDE.

WHY THE LEGISLATORS SUPPORT RACINOS, FACILITIES THAT FEATURE SLOTS SUPPOSEDLY BASED ON HORSE EXCHANGES WHOSE BENEFITS GREATLY BENEFIT THE HORSE RACING INDUSTRY, WHILE DENYING KENTUCKIANS ABLE TO VOTE ON RIGHT HAND OF ALLOWING FOR TRUE GAMBLING.

THAT'S A DIFFERENT POINT BUT THIS IS NOT EXPANDED GAME BLING BUT IS IT A GAIT TO SUCH IN.

>> IT'S NOT EXPANDED GAMBLING.

IT IS A WAY TO TAKE OUR PRODUCT, THE HORSE RACE, AND APPLY TECHNOLOGY TO IT.

AS I SAID AT THE OUTSET, WITHOUT EXPANDING GAMBLING, WHICH IF YOU KNOW FOR MANY YEARS THERE HAVE BEEN EFFORTS TO DO MORE EXPANDED GAMBLING.

THE RACING INDUSTRY NOT IS THE SUPPORTING THAT.

THEY'RE SIMPLY TAKING THEIR OWN PRODUCT THAT WILDLIFE KNOWN IN KENTUCKY.

I DON'T KNOW IF PEOPLE KNOW, HORSE RACING IN EDITION BACK TO THE VERY BEGINNINGS OF THE COMMONWEALTH.

THE KENTUCKY ASSOCIATION WAS FORMED IN LEXINGTON IN 1828.

PEOPLE WERE RUNNING CASES HERE AND GAMBLING ONORS HORSE RACING AND NOBODY THOUGHT THAT THERE WAS ANY EVIL IN IT.

IT'S A PART OF THE CORE OF THE CULTURE OF THIS STATE.

AND I DO WANT TO SAY SOMETHING RELATED TO THIS BECAUSE I WOULD LOVE, MARTIN, FOR YOU TO COME OUT AT 5:00 IN THE MORNING A KEENELAND ONE MORNING, AND YOU YOU WOULD SEE HARD-WORKING PEOPLE OUT THERE.

THEY'RE NOT ALL MILLIONAIRES AND BILLIONAIRES.

THEY'RE FERRY YEARS.

THEY'RE FER YEARS, THEIR EXERCISE RIDERS.

TERRY THEY'RE VETERINARIANS OUT THERE.

THE SAME THING ON THE HORSE FARMS.

THESE ARE HARD WORKING SALT OF THE EARTH PEOPLE.

AND WHAT THE SENATOR SAID, THE LIFEBLOOD OF HORSE RACING IS PURSES, AND THAT'S WHERE THE MONEYS FROM THESE MACHINES GO, IS TOO PURSES, AND IN THERE THEY SUPPORT THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY.

NOW, ARE THERE WEALTHY PEOPLE?

SURE SURE THERE ARE.

NAME WE ONE SIGNIFICANT INDUSTRY THAT DOESN'T HAVE WEALTHY PEOPLE IN IT.

THERE'S NOT ONE.

THERE'S NOT ONE.

BUT THE PEOPLE THAT WE ARE HERE CARING ABOUT, AND THAT'S ALL KEENELAND -- OTHER THAN PAYING FOR THE FACILITY, WHICH WAS NOT CHEAP, EVERYTHING THAT KEENELAND HAS GENERATED IS GOING INTO PURSES THAT FILTERS OUT THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY.

>> REAL QUICKLY, SENATOR WEDNESDAY OFFIELD.

HER SHELL YEAR, FROM FRANKFORT -- I KNOW YOU KNOW WHO HE IS -- >> I REPRESENTED HERSHEL I THINK ONE TIME A ZONING PROJECT.

>> WELL, HE HAS A QUESTION FOR YOU OR SENATOR SCHICKEL.

HOW CAN HE GUARANTEE THAT TRACKS WILL BOLSTER THE HORSE INDUSTRY WHEN THEY NO LONGER NEED HORSES TO GET THEIR MONEY?

THIS IS SIMPLY THE POINT THAT MR. COTHRAN MADE EARLIER.

>> YOU CAN ANSWER IT.

I'D BE GLAD TO TALK TO HERSHEL ANY TIME.

>> IT'S GOOD TO HEAR FROM MY FRIEND WERE SHELLY YORK.

HE eMAILED ME EARLIER TODAY AND I APPRECIATE HIM PRAYING FOR ME AND HE'S BEEN A GOOD FRIEND TO ME.

BUT WE JUST DISAGREE THIS ISSUE.

THE WHOLE IDEA IS THE PURSE, AND THE MONEY, A PERCENTAGE OF THIS MONEY IS GOING TO PURSES, AND THAT'S WHAT DRIVES THOROUGHBRED RACING.

I WOULD AGREE WITH HIM, THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO HAVE TO KEEP A CLOSE EYE ON THIS BECAUSE IT IS ONLY HUMAN NATURE THAT THE HORSE RACING WOULD BECOME IRRELEVANT IF THEY CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY JUST TO KEEP THE MONEY THAT WAS GOING INTO THE HISTORICAL RACING.

AS CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE THAT OVERSEES RANGES IN THE COMMONWEALTH IN THE SENATE, I'M -- RACING IN THE SENATE, I'M COMMITTED TO WATCHING THAT VERY CLOSELY, BUT YOU CANNOT DENY THE FACT THAT IN THE LAST TEN YEARS THIS HAS REALLY HELPED LIVE RACING.

IT HASN'T HURD IT.

>> SENATOR WESTERFIELD.

>> FIRST I WANT TO SAY THIS BILL ACTUALLY CAN EXPAND GAMING.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THE EXACT LANGUAGE, AND I KNOW THAT WHEN YOU GET ON MAIN STREET, PEOPLE AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO THE NUANCES OF THE BILL BUT THAT'S WHAT JOHN AND I HAVE TO DO.

AND THIS BILL ACTUALLY GIVES THE RACING COMMISSION BROAD AUTHORITY TO COME UP WITH ANY OTHER THING THAT CAN FIT THIS DEFINITION OF PARI-MUTUEL THAT IT PUTS INTO STATUTE.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO JUST BE THESE MACHINES.

IT COULD IN FACT EXPAND GAMING.

I DON'T THINK YOU ON COULD READ THIS BILL PROPOSAL TO EX MANNED.

>> CASINOS AND I THINK THAT WOULD OBVIOUSLY RUN AFOUL OF THE KAWASAKI BUT I THINK THERE'S AN EASY READING THAT SHOWS IT COULD EXPAND JUST LOND THE HISTORICAL HORSE RACING MACHINES.

I ONE OF MY FLOOR AMENDMENTS SENATE BILL 1 WOULD STRIKE TWO WORDS TO IT WHICH CLOSES THE DOOR, IF THE LANGUAGE STAYS IN, CLOSES A DOOR TO BETTERS OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS THAT HAVE PLACE WAGERS IN THESE MACHINES THAT ARE UNLAWFUL, THE MACHINES BEING UNLAWFUL, NOT THE WAGERS.

SO THING IS VERY IMPORTANT I THINK IT COULD EXPAND GAMING.

I'LL SIMPLY SAY THIS, AND NOTHINGS THIS IS NOT AT ALL A DESPITE ON THE CHAIRMAN OF THAT POWERFUL COMMITTEE TO MY RIGHT, AND HE WOULDN'T SAY THIS ABOUT THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JUDICIARY TO HIS LEFT HERE, BUT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AS A WHOLE HISTORICALLY IS NOT GOOD ON KEEPING ITS EYE ON SOME THINGS.

AND I THINK THAT'S A CONCERNING HOPE JUST COUNT ON US COMING BACK TO IT IF SOMETHING FALLS APART.

THREE QUARTERS OF TIME WE'RE SPENDING ON THINGS WE HAVE LET OUR EYE WARNED OFF OF FOR A WHILE.

>> I WANT TO MOVE ON TO TAXATION.

REAL QUICKLY, MARTIN.

>> THE ECONOMIC DISPARITIES WITHIN THIS INDUSTRY, ONE OF THE HORSEMEN WHO TESTIFIED AT THE LICENSING AND OCCUPATIONS COMMITTEE THE OTHER DAY USED THE TERM "TRICKLE DOWN."

I NEVER HEARD THAT USED POSITIVELY BECAUSE WHAT YOU HAVE IS A BUNCH MONEY GOING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE PRETTY WELL OFF.

I MEAN, WE ALL KNOW THE HORSE INDUSTRY.

WE MET PEOPLE IN THE HORSE INDUSTRY.

IT'S NOT BAD TO BE WEALTHY, BUT THEY ARE.

BILL TALKS ABOUT THE HOT WALKERS AND THE GROOMS AND ALL THIS OUT AT KEENELAND, BUT WHAT ARE THEY MAKING?

THE MEDIAN WAGE, HOURLY WAGE IN THE INDUSTRY IS 76% OF THE PEOPLE IN THE RACING INDUSTRY ARE HOURLY WORKERS IS JUST A LITTLE OVER $11.

THAT INCLUDES BENEFITS.

THAT'S THE MEDIAN WAGE.

I WONDER WHAT IT IS FOR THOSE PEOPLE OUT WALKING HORSES EARLY IN THE MORNING AT KEENELAND.

>> SO REAL QUICKLY, I WANT TO SEGUE TO RAISING THE TAX THESE GAMING DEVICES.

WE KNOW THAT HOUSE DEMOCRATS HAD AN OP ED OVER THE WEEKEND CALLING FOR THIS, AND WE KNOW THAT SOME HEALTH GROUPS AND OTHERS HAVE JOINED FORCES, A COALITION OF SORTS, AND I CAUGHT UP WITH JASON BAILEY WHO IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF KENTUCKY CENTER FOR ECONOMIC POLICY ON FRIDAY TO ASK HIS OPINION ABOUT THIS AS HE'S PART OF THOSE GROUPS WHO ARE LEADING THAT CHARGE.

JASON BAILEY WITH THE KENTUCKY CENTER FOR ECONOMIC POLICY THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THIS LETTER THAT K SEPP ALONG WITH 16 OTHER GROUPS INCLUDING TEACHERS UNIONS, HEALTH GROUPS, EVEN AN NAACP ASSOCIATION WROTE A LETTER TO LAWMAKERS SAYING IF THEY SIDE TO REDESIGN PARI-MUTUEL WAGERING IN KENTUCKY TO INCLUDE THESE HISTORICAL HORSE RACING MACHINES THAT THEY SHOULD AT THE SAME TIME MAKE SURE THAT IT'S ADEQUATELY TAXED.

TELL US WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT.

IS IT NOT TAXED ADEQUATELY NOW?

AND HOW MUCH IS KENTUCKY LOSING OUT ON?

>> YEAH, THE TAX RATE ON THESE SLOT MACHINES IS FAR LOW -- LOWER THAN YOU SEE IN OTHER STATES, AND LOWER THAN WE TAX OTHER GAMBLING IN KENTUCKY.

PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY GO TO ONE OF THESE PLACES THAT ABOUT THREE TIMES MORE MONEY IS BET ON THESE SLOT MACHINES THAN IS ACTUALLY PURCHASED IN LOCALITY RI TICKETS IN KENTUCKY, BUT WE COLLECT ONLY $15 MILLION FROM THESE MACHINES WHILE WE COLLECT $270 MILLION FROM THE LOTTERY.

THE TAX RATE WAS SET AT A VERY, VERY LOW RATE, ABOUT 8% GOES BACK TO THE GENERAL FUND.

YOU LOOK AT OTHER STATES, NEARBY STATES, SLOT MACHINE TAX RATES ARE 30 TO EVEN 60 PERCENT.

SO WE ARE MISSING OUT ON A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT COULD FUND OUR SCHOOLS, FUND OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, SUPPORT HUMAN SERVICES AND FAMILIES, THAT IF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY LEUKEMIAIZES THIS ACTIVITY THROUGH THIS SESSION AND DOESN'T ADDRESS THIS EGREGIOUSLY LOW TAX RATE, WE WILL MISS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR SCHOOLS AND OUR PUBLIC -- OUR BUDGET AND OUR PUBLIC SERVICES TO ALSO BENEFIT.

>> KSEP'S ANALYSIS RECENTLY SHOWED TO YOUR POINT ABOUT HOW OTHER STATES ARE GETTING MORE OUT OF -- THE BANG FOR THE BUCK WHEN IT COMES TO THIS TYPE OF RACING.

WEST VIRGINIA HAS A TAX RATE OF 53.5% ON ELECTRONIC GAMING DEVICE REVENUE.

OHIO TAX RATE OF 33.5%.

INDIANA HAS A GRADUATED RATE UP TO 40%.

THIS IS WHAT YOU ALLUDED TO ON CASINO REVENUE.

AND 35% ON RACINO REVENUES.

SO IN ILLINOIS UP TO 50%.

SO YOU'RE SAYING KENTUCKY SHOULD FALL SOMEWHERE IN THAT RANGE AND NOT THE 8% THAT CURRENTLY IS WHERE IT STANDS.

>> THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THE TAX RATE ON THESE MACHINES IS FAR LOWER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE.

IF YOU LOOK AT OTHER STATES, AND THE REASON THEY APPLY THE TAX THEY DO THERE'S A SOCIAL COST ASSOCIATED WITH GAMBLING, BUT IN KENTUCKY WE'VE ALLOWED THESE MACHINES TO PROLIFERATE WE HAVE HAD THIS DECADES LONG DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT TO ALLOW CASINOS.

WE HAVE CASINOS NOW.

THERE ARE 3500 OF THESE MACHINES OPERATING NOW, THOUSANDS MORE HAVE BEEN APPROVED BY THE BEEN APPROVED BY THE RACING COMMISSION, AND IF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY GIVES THE GREENED LIGHT TO THE LEGALLALITY OF THESE MACHINES, YOU CAN BET THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT MORE BUT THE LARGE CASINO OPERATIONS THAT OWN THESE FACILITIES ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO MAKE PROFITS OFF THEM, BUT OUR BUDGET IS NOT GOING TO BENEFIT IF WE LET THAT HAPPEN WITHOUT ALSO RAISING THE TAX RATE IN LINE WITH WHAT EVERYONE SELLS DOING.

>> IS KSEP AND THESE OTHER GROUPS THAT SIGNED THIS LETTER TO THE LAWMAKERS, ARE YOU TAKING A POSITION ON HHR OR ARE YOU JUST ADVISING IF YOU CHOOSE TO GO THIS ROUTE, HERE'S WHAT THESE GROUPS ADVISE?

AND BECAUSE THEY COULD ALL STAND TO GAIN SOMETHING FROM THE ADDITIONAL TAX REVENUE THAT'S GENERATED.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK IT VARIES BY THE GROUP.

AS A COALITION, WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT IF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ACTS, IT CANNOT ACT WITHOUT DOING THAT SECOND PART, WHICH IS ENSURING THAT OUR SCHOOLS, THAT OUR PUBLIC SERVICES ALSO BENEFIT.

IT WOULD BE A HUGE MISSED OPPORTUNITY AND FRANKLY AN INJUSTICE TO ALLOW THIS ACTIVITY TO CONTINUE AND NOT TO SEE THE BENEFITS TO OUR STATE BUDGET.

>> SO IF LAWMAKERS DECIDE, JASON, TO LEGALIZE THIS SLOT-STYLE ELECTRONIC GAMING IN KENTUCKY, WHAT KIND OF DOLLARS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE THAT COULD BE ADDED TO THE STATE COFFERS?

WHAT'S THE POTENTIAL?

>> IT'S PRETTY SIGNIFICANT.

I MEAN, IF WE JUST TAXED THESE SLOT MACHINES SIMILAR TO WHAT OTHER STATES DO NEARBY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN THE RANGE OF $100 MILLION.

AND EVEN MORE WOULD COME IF THE MACHINES CONTINUED TO EXPAND, WHICH WE EXPECT, IF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY PASSES THIS LAWMAKING SURE THAT THEY ARE CLARIFYING THE LEGALITY.

SO IT'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY.

IN FACT, IT'S THE ONLY REAL OPPORTUNITY POLITICALLY FEASIBLE OPPORTUNITY IN THE NEAR FUTURE TO GENERATE THAT KIND OF MONEY.

SO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SHOULD NOT LESS IT PASS THEM BY.

>> JASON BAILEY WITH THE KENTUCKY CENTER FOR ECONOMIC POLICY, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> I THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO SENATOR SCHICKEL, I'LL ASK THIS OF YOU FIRST.

EMILY BEAUREGARD IS WITH KENTUCKY VOICES FOR HEALTH ASKED THE QUESTION WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, DO YOU SUPPORT INCREASING THE LOW TAX ON IS ON THE MACHINES RAISING POSSIBLY 1 UNHAD MILLION DOLLARS FORTE KENTUCKY'S BUDGET?

>> I DO NOT.

THE THE EFFECTIVE TAX RATE IS 31% NOW AND THAT WAS SET TEN YEARS AGO AND THAT IS I THINK A FAIR TAX RATE.

I DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO THE PHILOSOPHY THAT YOU TAX CERTAIN INDUSTRIES WHICH YOU DEEM -- WHICH YOU DON'T AT AN EXCESSIVE RATE.

IF THERE WAS ANY INCREASE, TO ME IT WOULD BE THE MONEY THAT GOES TO THE PURSES BECAUSE THE PURSES ARE WHAT'S GOING TO KEEP -- SUPPORT THE LIVE RACING, AND WHEN THE LIVE RACING IS HEALTHY, RENEE, ALL THESE OTHER BUSINESSES, THE STABLES, ALL THE SUPPORT, FARMERS, THE FEED, EVERYTHING, THEY DO BETTER, AND THERE'S INCREASED REVENUE TO THE STATE.

JASON AND I HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHY ON TAXES.

JASON BAILEY, HIS LEFT-LEANING ORGANIZATION JUST HAS A DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHY ON TAXES IN GENERAL.

MINE IS LOWER THE RATES AND BROADEN THE BASE.

NOW, IN THIS CASE I DON'T WANT TO LOWER THE RATE.

I THINK 31% IS A FAIR RATE.

BUT I WOULD ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT TO YOU, RENEE, THAT THAT REALLY IS A MATTER FOR THE HOUSE.

ANY TAXING ISSUES DO HAVE TO COME OUT OF THE HOUSE, AND WE HAVE TO PASS THIS BILL FOR EVEN THAT QUESTION TO BE RELEVANT.

>> BUT SENATOR CHRIS MCDANIEL I DO BELIEVE IN YOUR L&O COMMITTEE HAS HE WAS CASTING HIS VOTE SAID, "I DOUGH QUESTION THE ORIGIN OF THIS BILL IN THE SENATE CHAMBER."

I WANT TO GET SOME RESPONSE ON WHY IS THAT HAD AN ISSUE.

SHOULD IT HAVE STARTED IN THE HOUSE?

WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS A TAXING COMPONENT TO IT OR NOT.

>> THE CONSTITUTION REQUIRES THAT REVENUE RAISING MEASURES TO START IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, NOT IN THE SENATE, AND AN IMPORTANT FACT THAT I'M SURE HASN'T BEEN LOST ON ANY OF THE PEOPLE AT THE STABLE, A REVENUE RAISING MEASURE IN AN ODD YEAR REQUIRES A HIRE VOTE THRESHOLD, AND THAT MIGHT BE PART OF THE REASON WHY MORE EXPLICIT FUNDRAISING MONEY IS NOT IN HERE.

SENATOR SCHICKEL IS TALKING ABOUT, THERE'S NOTHING THAT BUNTS RED CENT MORE TOWARDS PURSES.

ALL IT DOES IS GREEN LIGHT THESE MACHINES.

IT DOESN'T GUARANTEE ANY ADDITIONAL AMOUNT FOR PURSES.

THIS IS ACCORDING TO THE DECEMBER REPORT ON THESE MACHINES FROM THE HORSE RACING COMMISSION, $9.8 BILLION HAS BEEN COLLECTED IN WAGERS OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS IN THESE MACHINES.

EXACTLY IX HAVE $59 MILLION OR SO HAS EVER COME TO THE GENERAL FUND.

ENOUGH IS WAGERED -- AGAIN ACCORDING TO THE DECEMBER REPORT, ENOUGH IS WAGERED IN ONE DAY ON THESE MACHINES ACROSS THE STATE TO COVER THEIR OBLIGATION FOR THE GENERAL FUND FOR THE WHOLE YEAR.

I THINK THAT TAX RATE'S A LITTLE LOW.

I WOULD LOVE FOR US TO NOT HAVE THIS AT ALL.

AGAIN, I THINK MAKING ENDS MEET FROM THE STATE WITH PEOPLE'S LOSSES BAD PUBLIC POLICY.

WE ARE RELYING ON THE PEOPLE TO LOSE IN ORDER TO HAVE MONEY TO MAKE ENDS MEET, TO PAY FOR THE VERY THINGS JASON TALKED ABOUT, THE SOCIAL SERVICES THAT THE PEOPLE -- THERE'S A LETTER I'VE GOT JUST OVER THIS WEEKEND FROM A MINISTER IN THE PENNYROYAL, BARREN RIVER AREA WHO'S GOT A WIDOW WHO'S GOTS TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN GAMBLING DEBT, SOME OF IT -- MOST OF IT RATHER ACCORDING TO THE LETTER FROM NEW OAK GROVE FACILITY THAT'S BEEN OPEN JUST SINCE SEPTEMBER.

THOSE SORTS OF THINGS DON'T MAKE THE INTO THE TALKING POINTS AND THOSE ARE THE SORTS PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO NEED THE SOCIAL SERVICES THAT WE WANT TO EXTENDED LOST MONEY TO PAY FOR?

IT'S JUST BAD PUBLIC POLICY ALL AROUND.

>> THE POSITION OF THE SENATE WHICH THEN SPEAKER GREG STUMBO CAME OVER WITH A EXPAND GAMBLING BILL A FEW YEARS AGO WAS THAT THIS NEEDED TO BE -- THIS WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT THE SENATE REALLY COULD DO BECAUSE OF THE WHOLE ISSUE OF FUNDING IT, AND THERE'S BEEN SOMETHING, AROUND $700 MILLION THAT HAS GONE TO WEALTHY RACING TRACKS WHEN WE HAVE ONLY GOTTEN 23 BETWEEN $55 MILLION AND $60 MILLION WHICH IS JUST A DID NOT BUCKET AND COMPARISON TO COMPANIES THAT I CAN CHURCHILL DOWNS THAT MAKE OVER $10,000,000.000000000 A YEAR.

>> THERE ARE SO MANY -- $10 BILLION.

>> SO MANY RED HERRINGS I WANT TO PICK A A FEW OF THEM.

NUMBER ONE THEY TALK ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF THAT'S WAGERED.

OUTS EVERY DOLLAR, 91 BOTANICA 2 CENTS GOES RIGHT BACK THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PLAYING.

SO IF YOU SPEND TWO OR THREE HOURS AND MAYBE ALL IN YOU PLAY -- YOU MAKE $100 WORTH OF BETS, THE AVERAGE PERSON IS WALKING OUT AFTER THREE HOURS OF ENTERTAINMENT WITH $91.

AND CHANGE.

THE TAX, EFFECTIVE TAX RATE IS 31 CENTS, AND THIS IS A -- IT'S BEEN ON THE BOOKS, THE REGS FOR TEN YEARS, EVERYBODY EXCEPT ONE TRACK DELAYED UNTIL THE AFTER THE FIRST SUPREME COURT DECISION WHICH SAID THE REGS ARE VALID.

THAT'S THE BEST ANSWER TO -- DID YOU KNOW YOU WERE PLAYING ON SHAKY GROUND?

THEY SAID THE REGS ARE VALID.

SO IT'S 2014.

THIS IS A START-UP INDUSTRY.

THERE'S $1 BILLION IN FACILITIES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN BUILT.

THERE ARE 750 MILLION THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS.

THOSE HAVE TO BE PAID FOR.

IF THE INDUSTRY MATURES, THEN THAT IS THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT WHETHER THE TAX RATE OUGHT TO BE ADJUSTED.

AND THESE THINGS DO NOT -- THEY TRY TO EQUATE THEM WITH CASINOS.

THEY TRY TO EQUATE THEM WITH SLOT MACHINES.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE REVENUE MODELS FROM THOSE, THEY ARE NIGHT AND DAY FROM WHAT THESE THING PRODUCE, AND THAT'S WHY THE TAX RATES IN SOME OF THESE PLACES ARE HIGHER.

>> BUT ALL OF THAT INFRASTRUCTURE IS IN PLACE BECAUSE THEY WENT AHEAD AND DID SOMETHING THAT WAS BEING LITIGATED IN THE COURTS.

THEY THOUGHT IT WAS QUESTIONABLE ENOUGH TO COME TO THE COURT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THEY BUILT ALL THAT STUFF KNOWING THAT IT COULD ALL COME CRASHING DOWN, SO THAT'S NOT ANYBODY'S FAULT BUT THE INDUSTRY'S.

>> AND PERHAPS EVEN BANKED ON THE FACT THAT YOU'RE GOING TO GET USED TO HAVING THAT REVENUE WHICH YOU DO HAVE.

I DO WANT TO GO TO YOU, SENATOR SCHICKEL, TO A POINT THAT SENATOR WESTERFIELD WHO SAID THERE'S NOTHING IN YOUR BURNT DILL, AND I'M SURE THERE WILL BE CHANGES SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY, THAT DOESN'T ALLOW THIS TO EXPAND BEYOND THESE HISTORICAL RACING MACHINES.

ARE YOU INTERESTED IN TIGHTENING IT UP WHERE IT DOESN'T ALLOW FOR OTHER MORE NEFARIOUS, TO USE THAT WORD.

>> I THE BILL DOES RESTRICT TO IT HORSE RACING AND I THINK IF IT'S NOT, IT IS SHOULD BE.

>> SO -- >> THAT'S ASSEMBLY INACCURATE.

IT'S LIMITED TO WAGERERS ON LIVE OR SIMULCAST OR HISTORICAL RACES.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE PULLS THAT FROM.

>> THE BEFORE THAT IS THE GREENLIGHT THAT THE RESOURCE RACING COMMISSION, ANYTHING PREVIOUSLY OR HEREIN AFTER APPROVED, AND THEN IT GIVES THOSE COMBINATIONS OF THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS, AND I'M NOT IN THE HORSE INDUSTRY.

I IMAGINE THAT THERE'S SOMEONE VERY IMAGINATIVE THAT CAN COME UP WITH ADDITIONAL MODELS TO DO AS BILL, AS YOU'VE SAID, TO PAIR LIVE RACING WITH TECHNOLOGY, TO DO NEW AND DIFFERENT THINGS.

>> IT HAS TO BE A HORSE RACE.

>> EXCEPT IT DOESN'T.

>> THIS BILL DOESN'T DO THAT.

>> A SLOT MACHINE IS NOT A HORSE RACE.

>> EXCEPT EVEN NOW THEY'RE NOT CONNECTED ON A LIVE HORSE RACING.

EVENT, NOT ABSOLUTELY NOT FOR SURE AND NOT THE SAME HORSE EVENT, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THE SUPREME COURT SAID.

>> THE SUPREME COURT SAID THAT A HISTORICAL HORSE RACE IS THE EQUIVALENT OF A LIVE RACE.

THAT WAS DECIDED IN 2014 AND HASN'T BEEN TOUCHED.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THAT IS TECHNICAL TRUE.

BUT I THINK THAT WAS A MISTAKE.

BUT STILL WHAT THE COURT FOUND WAS THAT THESE MACHINES WERE NOT CONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE THEY DON'T COME TO THE STANDARD OF THE STANDARDS FOR PARI-MUTUEL WAGERING.

>> THERE IS NOTHING IN THAT OPINION THAT SAYS THEY'RE NOT CONSTITUTIONAL.

>> THE OPINION ITSELF IS RENDERING AN OPINION ON -- IT SAYS THIS IS THE SUPREME COURT SPEAKING.

>> IT IS NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL LAW OPINION.

YOU WILL NOT FIND THAT IN ANY LINE IN THE 2020 DECISION, MARTIN.

IT'S NOT THERE.

>> IT'S A DECISION BY THE SUPREME COURT.

>> WHAT'S REGRETTABLE ABOUT ALL THIS, RENEE, IS THAT WE'RE DEBATING BACK AND FORTH ABOUT SOMETHING THAT DOES IMPACT JOBS, IMPACT REAL BEAM.

I THINK BILL'S DESCRIPTION IS ACCURATE.

YOU HAVE A LOT OF HARD-WORKING PEOPLE AT THESE FACILITIES, AND THEY DON'T HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT GAMING THEY DON'T HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT HORSES MAYBE, AND SOME OF THEM PERHAPS THEY DO OR THEY'VE GROWN UP AROUND IT.

WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL AND THINK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING AND THE IMPACTS OF IT, BUT WHAT'S SO FRUSTRATING, WHAT IS SO DISAPPOINTING IS THAT WE'VE -- IN 137 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF SEPTEMBER OPINION TO TONIGHT, AND WE'RE DOING THIS BROADCAST, THE WHEELS OF INFLUENCE BETWEEN THE HORSE TRACK AND IS THE LOST COMMISSION AND THE INDUSTRY, THE GAMING INDUSTRY, I COUNT 63 YOU DIFFERENT LOBBYISTS INVOLVED IN OME SOME ASPECTS OF THE GAMING, AT LEAST THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

I HAVEN'T COUNTED FOR THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

ALL OF THAT MASSIVE EFFORTS TO DO SOMETHING FOR AN INDUSTRY AS I'VE SAID AND WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT REPEATEDLY, KNEW THAT IT WAS WALKING ONTO A SPOT OF QUICKSAND FROM THE OUTSET, AND WE'VE GONE YEARS WITHOUT ADEQUATELY FUNDING EDUCATION, WITHOUT ADEQUATELY FUNDING OUR STATE POLICE, WITHOUT ADEQUATELY FUNDING OR STATE POLICE LAB WHOSE SAL REQUIRES $20,000 A YEAR LOWER THAN THEIR NEIGHBORING COUNTERPARTS IN OTHER STATES.

OUR SOCIAL SERVICES ARE STRUGGLING.

OUR SOCIAL WORKERS DON'T HAVE ENOUGH -- WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE.

THEY'RE NOT PAID ENOUGH.

OUR DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS WORKERS AREN'T PAID ENOUGH.

AND FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS OUTS AT THE STATE PENN I THINK THEY WERE WORKING 12 HOURS SHIFTS AND MANDATORY OVERTIME TO MAKE ENDS MEET AND IT'S ONE OF THE HIGHEST TURN OVER IN ALL OF THE STATE GOVERNMENT.

WE STILL HAVE SCHOOLS WHERE THE KEY CAPS ARE MISSING FROM KEYBOARDS AND WE CAN'T PAY FOR ALL OF TRANSPORTATION COSTS AND ALL-DAY KINDERGARTEN.

IN CHRISTIAN COUNTY WE NEED BUILDS THAT NEED NEW ROOFS AND HOLE WHOLE NEW BUILDINGS.

IT TOOK 137 DAYS TO COME TO TO THE RESCUE TO BAIL IT OUT AFTER A BAD DEBT, AND TRESS KENTUCKY, OUR STUDENTS, OUR WORKFORCE, OUR ECONOMY IS NOT GETTING THE ATTENTION IT NEEDS.

THAT'S WHAT IS SO FRUSTRATING, THAT WE'RE SPENDING OUR TIME TALKING ABOUT THIS, WHICH TAKES FROM PEOPLE, AND WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO GET PEOPLE GOING GOING EVERYWHEREELS.

>> BUT IT SEEMS OF ALL THE i IN FRANKFORT, THIS ONE DOES HAVE SOME BIPARTISAN APPEAL.

YOU'VE GOT TO GOVERNOR WITHIN SENATE PRESIDENT IS A CO-SPONSOR.

WE ASSUME THE HOUSE FACTORY IS ALSO ONBOARD LIKE THIS.

IT SEEMS THIS TRAIN IS MOVING OR THIS HORSE IS OUT OF THE GATE.

WHAT ARE THE PROSPECTS FOR THIS ACTUALLY BEING PASSED?

AND THE TIMELINE THAT YOU THINK IT WOULD.

AND JUST WHIPPING THE VOTES FOR IT RIGHT NOW, SENATOR SCHICKEL, DER EVER DIVERSITY IT STAND IN SENATE CHAMBER, IN YOUR CAUCUS?

>> I'D LOVE TO ADDRESS THAT BUT BEFORE I DO, I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT SENATOR WESTERFIELD SAID ABOUT ALL THE THINGS THAT WE NEED, THAT WE NEED MONEY FOR, THAT OUR 6, PRISON, SOCIAL WORKERS, ALL THESE THINGS AND HE HAD A GOOD LIST OF THEM.

HE'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

JOE DISAGREE WITH THINK ANY OF THAT.

BUT NOT ADDRESSING THIS WILL NOT HELP ANY OF THAT.

IN FACT, WILL IT HURT THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING AUTHORITY A PART OF OUR ECONOMY -- GOING TO HURT A PART OF OUR ECONOMY WHICH IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

IT IS FRUSTRATING.

P HE TALKS ABOUT THE LOBBYISTS AND THE MONEY, AND I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT TOO.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT, AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A DISCUSSION FOR ANOTHER DAY.

BUT THIS IS VERY, VERY URGENT AT THIS TIME, AND DELAYING THIS ISN'T GOING TO HELP ANY OF THOSE OTHER PROJECTS, IN FACT, IT'S GOING TO HURT IT.

NOW POLITICS IN THE SENATE.

I THINK THERE IS A AGREEMENT, ALTHOUGH IT'S VERY CLOSE.

I THINK THE VOTE IS VERY CLOSE.

I THINK THE VOTES ARE THERE.

IF THE VOTES ARE THERE, WE'LL VOTE ON IT SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

BUT WE TO HAVE SOME BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT.

>> A VOTE THIS WEEK, CAN YOU PREDICT?

>> I HOPE SO.

>> RENEE -- >> I.

THE HARD PART ABOUT THIS IS GOING TO BE IN THE HOUSE.

I THINK YOU SAW THIS IN THE DEBATE OVER SPORTS WAGERING, IS THAT THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO GET A MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS IN THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS TO SUPPORT THIS.

THEY MAYBE CLOSE TO 50 VOTES OVERALL BUT THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH VOTES IN THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS FOR THIS, AND I THINK THIS BILL -- THIS IS GOING TO BE EVEN MORE PROCEED ANNOUNCED IN TERMS OF SOME OF THE PROBLEMS THAT THESE RED COUNTY LEGISLATOR HAVE WITH A BILL LIKE THIS BECAUSE THIS IS RELL A A GOLDEN TRIANGLE ISSUE.

>> EVEN REPRESENTATIVETIVE KOENIG SAYS THAT THIS TAKES PRECEDENCE OF SPORTS WAGERING.

>> HE ALSO WAS VERY COY ABOUT SAYING THAT HE HAD ENOUGH VOTES.

>> JUST REAL QUICKLY, THIS IS NOT A GODBOLD TRIANGLE.

WHEN WE WERE IN THE SENATE THE OTHER DAY, ONE OF THE SPEAKER'S WAS FROM CHRISTIAN COUNTY.

>> CHAMBER PRESIDENT.

>> IT'S AN ISSUE IN HENDERSON.

IT'S AN ISSUE IN SOUTHERN KENTUCKY.

BUT SENATOR WESTERFIELD IS CHAIRMAN OF THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.

SENATOR SCHICKEL LICENSES AND OCCUPATIONS.

I SPENT A LONG TIME AS CHAIRMAN OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN THE HOUSE WHEN I WAS THERE.

AND ONE THING I LEARNED IS THE ANSWER TO EVERY UNMET NEED THAT SORT OF JUST TICKED OFF IS JOBS.

IT'S ALL THE SECRET TO QUALITY OF LIFE.

IS GOOD JOBS.

AND YOU CAN TRY TO DENIGRATE THE QUALITY OF LIFE IN THIS INDUSTRY.

THE QUALITY OF JOBS, BUT THERE ARE MANY, MANY GOOD JOBS, AND THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE FEED THEIR FAMILIES WITH.

>> BUT THEY'RE NOT HIGH.

PAYING JOBS, ACCORDING TO MR. COTHRAN.

>> NOT ALL OF THEM.

THERE ARE A LOT OF INDUSTRIES THAT ARE NOT HIGH-PAYING ACROSS THE BOARD, BUT THERE ARE PLENTY OF HIGH-PAYING JOBS AND UPWARDLY MOBILE JOBS.

BUT THIS IS A JOBS BILL IN MANY WAYS.

IT'S A BILL TO PROTECT EXISTING JOBS, NOT JUST IN THE HHR FACILITIES BUT IN THE HORSE INDUSTRY, AND TO EXPAND.

KENTUCKY HAS SEEN A RESURGENCE IN WHAT'S KNOWN HAS OUR YEAR-ROUND RACING CIRCUIT.

PEOPLE NOW, BECAUSE OF THESE -- THE REVENUES, THE PURSES FROM THESE CAN COME TO KENTUCKY, AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO RUN TO OAK LAWN FOR PART OF THE YEAR, THEY DON'T HAVE TO RUN TO NEW YORK WEEK DON'T HAVE TO RUN TO FLORIDA.

THEY CAN STAY HERE.

AND ONE OF THE SPEAKERS IN THE SENATE COMMITTEE MENTIONED THAT, HE CAN NOW STAY HERE YEAR ROUND.

WE HAVE A HARD TIME ACCOMMODATING EVERYBODY THAT NOW WANTS TO COME TO KEENELAND AND THE TRAINING CENTER.

THIS IS A JOBS BILL, AND JOBS ARE WHAT'S GOING TO PRODUCE THE TAX REVENUES.

WHEN YOU HAVE A HOLE LIKE THIS, YOU TONIGHT AT KÀ YOUR WAY OUT OF IT.

YOU NEED TO -- YOU CAN'T TAX YOUR WAY OUT OF IT.

>> IF THE JOBS DIDN'T COME AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR PEOPLE, AT THE LOSSES OF OUR PEOPLE, I'D BE ALL FOR IT, BUT THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE.

AND THERE'S NOTHING THAT ANY OF US AT THIS TABLE CAN DO TO CHANGE THAT.

AND AS BILL MENTIONED, THE GAMES ARE BUILT FOR PEOPLE TO LOSE.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO -- THOSE AREN'T THE KIND OF REVENUES THAT I WANT TO GENERATE FOR THE STATE.

>> AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SAVE THE HORSE INDUSTRY BY BRINGING IN MACHINES THAT ARE MORE ATTRACTIVE THAN THE HORSE RACES THEMSELVES.

AT SOME POINT THE INDUSTRY IS GOING TO HAVE TO UPDATE THE WAY IT DOES THINGS, AND I THINK WE ALL TALK ABOUT HORSE RACING BEING THE STATE'S SIGNATURE INDUSTRY.

IF THIS BILL PASSES, SLOT MACHINES ARE GOING TO BE THE STATE'S SIGNATURE INDUSTRY.

>> WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE, AND WE'LL BE WATCHING VERY CLOSELY, ESPECIALLY ON THE SENATE SIDE, TO SEE SOME ACTION PERHAPS THAT COULD COME THIS WEEK.

THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN, FOR BEING HERE.

IT'S BEEN A VERY ENGAGING DISCUSSION AND IT WILL CONTINUE CERTAINLY.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR "KENTUCKY TONIGHT" TONIGHT.

WE WANT YOU TO STAY TUNED.

WE'VE GOT ANOTHER PROGRAM COMING UP LIVE RIGHT HERE ON KET, COVID UPDATE A KET FORUM.

A LOT OF INFORMATION ABOUT VACCINATIONS, ABOUT MASK RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE VIRUS VARIATIONS AND MUTATIONS.

WE WANT YOU TO BE INFORMED, SO STAY WITH US FOR ANOTHER HOUR LIVE HERE ON KET.

I'M RENEE SHAW AND I'LL SEE YOU IN JUST A FEW.