- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been provided by RWJBarnabas Health.

Let’s be healthy together.

The New Jersey Education Association.

Kean University.

Where Cougars climb higher.

PSEG Foundation.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Working to create a future where health is no longer a privilege, but a right.

The Russell Berrie Foundation.

Making a difference.

The North Ward Center.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

And by New Brunswick Development Corporation.

Promotional support provided by NJBIA.

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And by NJBIZ.

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- This is One-On-One.

- I'm an equal American just like you are.

- The way we change Presidents in this country is by voting.

- A quartet is already a jawn, it’s just The New Jawn.

- January 6th was not some sort of violent, crazy outlier.

- I don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, there is always something to learn.

- I mean what other country sends comedians over to embedded military to make them feel better.

- People call me 'cause they feel nobody's paying attention.

_ It’s not all about memorizing and getting information, it’s what you do with that information.

- (slowly) Start talking right now.

- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) Hi everyone, Steve Abubato.

We kick off the program with an on location as opposed to in the studio interview that I did with Debbie Prince.

This was at the New Jersey Sharing Network Annual 5K.

Their 15th anniversary was over in New Providence.

I did it with my colleague Jacqui Tricarico, and I spoke to Debbie Prince, who's vice chair, New Jersey Sharing Network, and also the mother of a heart transplant recipient, her son, Sam Prince.

An incredible story about Sam and receiving the gift of life, a celebration of life, a conversation with Debbie Prince.

Let's check it out.

(inspiring music) (inspiring music continues) - We are here at the 5K, the New Jersey Sharing Network 5K, with a good friend, Debbie Prince, who is the vice chair of the Sharing Network Foundation and the mom of Sam Prince.

- I am.

- For those who haven't seen past interviews, tell everyone who Sam is and why Sam is so special.

- Well, Sam is special, 'cause he's my son, and Sam is also special, because he received the gift of life, a heart transplant, 14 years ago.

- He was eight.

- He was eight.

And I believe you interviewed him when he was eight years old.

- Absolutely.

- Yes.

- Eight years old, could you go back those 14 years?

That time when Sam was struggling, he was born with?

- So Sam was born with many congenital heart and lung defects.

- [Steve] Right.

- I won't list them all, I'll take up all your tape.

But he was, really, very quite sick when he was born.

He thrived for seven years, he had two open heart surgeries, many cardiac catheterizations, therapies, medicines, hospitalizations.

Then, when he was about 7 1/2 years old, he really started to decline.

And we made the painful decision to list him for transplant.

And he waited about six months, and then his life changed forever, ours too.

- Describe for folks, I mean, you know, any mom, any dad, any parent right now who's trying to imagine what you're saying right now and what Sam was going through.

How did it change his life?

- Well, before his transplant, he was not a regular kid.

He didn't go to school full day, he maybe went once a week.

He couldn't go to a birthday party, he couldn't walk up the stairs, he couldn't play on the playground.

And all that changed.

He had the heart transplant, he went back to school, he went to birthday parties, he played on a basketball team, and he walked up the stairs in our house without turning blue.

- [Steve] What was it like for you?

- Overwhelming, grateful.

We had our family back together again.

- Let me ask you this, you've been involved in this organization, with this 5K for a while now.

Describe for folks who get to see it on the air, but are not here.

I mean, it's early in the morning, there'll be thousands of people here at the 15th anniversary of the 5K, the Sharing Network 5K.

What's the mood, what's the feeling here?

- This is an incredible day.

We call it a Celebration of Life for a reason, because it really is celebrating life.

This is our 14th year coming to the Sharing Network 5K.

Our team is called Max's Mitzvah Movers.

- Hold on, Max's?

- [Debbie] Mitzvah Movers, and I'll tell you a little bit about that.

- [Steve] Go ahead.

- A year after Sam had his transplant, my older son, Max, was having his bar mitzvah.

And for his bar mitzvah, you do what is called a mitzvah project, and it's a good deed.

And he wanted to raise money for the Sharing Network, which he did, and he organized a team for his brother, 'cause he was just so happy that he was doing well.

And the first year that we came here, it was just so overwhelming, because you see so many families.

You see families of recipients, you see families that are waiting for transplant, and you see families that have donated their loved ones' organs.

And those families are so grateful for what those loved ones did.

And that really, really resonated with us.

And they wanna see people who have received the gift of life thrive and do well, because they know that their loved ones' organs or tissue is giving a life to somebody.

And for them to see a little boy at eight years old- - Wow.

- Running, it's really gratifying.

My favorite part is seeing everybody's t-shirts, and reading the t-shirts and reading the stories.

And it's great to see the families come year after year to celebrate life, whether it's theirs or their loved ones.

- Tell us about Sam today.

- He's 20?

- He's 22.

- 22.

- He's 22.

- How's he doing?

- He's fantastic.

He is a junior in college, he is studying sports broadcasting, communications, and journalism.

- Good for him.

- Maybe he'll take your job one day.

- Yeah, well, we need better broadcasters.

- So he's great, he is a strong advocate for organ tissue donation.

Not a crowd that he doesn't turn down to speak to and tell his story.

- By the way, I remember meeting him, and he struck me as strong, outgoing, confident.

That's who he is.

- That's who he is.

That's who he is and that's who he is always been.

- You're involved in scholarships.

For whom and why?

- I am the chair of the scholarship committee here at the New Jersey Sharing Network Foundation.

We give out two different types of scholarships.

One is our high school scholarships, and it is a way for us to recognize really amazing high school students that have a connection to organ and tissue advocacy.

So this is our, I think it’s our 12th year in doing this.

- College as well, or no?

- Yes, we do both.

So we do our high school scholarships, and over the past several years, we have given out $150,000 worth of scholarships to 70 some odd students.

- So hold on, when we put up the website right now, if dollars come in, people contribute, some of that money goes to scholarships.

- Our scholarships are funded by five family funds.

- [Steve] Oh really?

- So if you are part of Team Buck or Hearts for Emma, Missy's Miracle.

- Hold on one second, so the teams.

I'm wrong about that, so forget about that.

The teams contribute to the scholarship fund.

- Their family funds- - Okay.

- Established here at the Sharing Network, and they give some of their funds to high school students.

We also have a healthcare sciences scholarship, which was new last year.

And it is for students in college that are pursuing a degree in health sciences that have a connection to organ and tissue donation or are pursuing a field of healthcare that is going to then lead into organ tissue donation fields such as social work- - Sure.

- Nursing, respiratory therapy.

And that healthcare scholarship is really special, because it is funded by our employees here at the Sharing Network.

So they have such a strong love for working here that they want people or students to go into their field somehow.

So they fund that, and that's really special.

- The gift keeps giving.

People keep giving the gift, sharing at the Sharing Network.

Those who are going to college, scholarships for those getting engaged in a field of science connected to organ tissue donation.

Debbie, I wanna thank you once again for joining us, we appreciate it.

- Oh, my pleasure, Steve.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

- Hi, I'm Jacqui Tricarico on location at the New Jersey Sharing Network's 5K Celebration of Life here in New Providence, New Jersey.

So pleased to be joined now by Emily Barkocy, who is a liver transplant recipient.

Great to have you here with us, Emily.

- Hi, Jacqui.

Thanks so much for having me this morning.

So, take us back to 2022.

- Yes.

- Your story's a little bit different than several others that we've heard.

Everything happened very quickly.

- Yes.

- Talk about what went down and how it led to a liver transplant for you.

- Kind of a surreal experience.

I was healthy until I wasn't.

I woke up June 30th, 2022, just feeling like I had the worst flu of my life.

My twin girls were four and a half.

I figured I got some kind of awful stomach bug from them, everything would be fine in a day or two, and within a day or two, I just was so sick to my stomach and started having such intense abdominal pain that I called my doctor who advised me to head straight to Morristown, possibly my appendix had burst, only to have a battery of tests run and find out I was not only in liver and kidney failure, they told me that they would contact the nearest transplant hospital.

I was looking at a need for an immediate liver transplant.

Something that never even entered my mind would be within the realm of possibilities.

I was medivaced out by Morristown to NYU Langone and given about 24 hours to live and diagnosed with acute liver failure.

- How common is this?

- About 10 people out of every million across the globe are diagnosed with acute liver failure.

So, it was very, very quick process and my transplant team saved my life.

- So yeah, usually we hear, you know, people are on transplant list for years.

How was it that you were able to get a donated liver and a match so quickly?

- A miracle.

There is no doubt in my mind that some kind of divine intervention happened.

I am here because of a medical miracle.

Everyone that I talk to in the medical field is like, "That doesn't happen."

People wait on lists for months, for years, and I was listed about four or five o'clock on the afternoon and by 10:00 AM the next morning, I was already in the OR getting my new liver.

And that just, it doesn't happen.

- I'm sure during that time it's much of a blur for you, but coming out of all of that and understanding what happened and that you actually had someone who had passed away give the gift of life to you, the liver, how were you able to digest all of that?

- It took a while.

There was several different stages, I feel like, of happiness, so many different emotions, of sadness for that family, but happiness that now somebody else kind of, I am able to carry on their life and their legacy and live for them.

So I feel like I have this whole new purpose, but because it was so sudden, I think in a way I'm so blessed because I didn't have time to be scared.

They came in and told me, "You've been diagnosed with acute liver failure, you're gonna need an immediate liver transplant.

That doesn't mean you're gonna get one, but we're gonna do our very best for you."

I made my final phone calls, I called my mom, I said goodbye to my family.

I signed all the paperwork with my medical rights.

I mean, it was by far the scariest thing I've ever been through.

But at the same time I woke up and I just felt this intense sense of gratefulness.

Like, I had a greater good.

There was a reason why I'm still here.

There was still more for me to do and hopefully to spread the message that organ donation isn't something that just impacts people that are very, very sick or people that are older, that it can touch each of our lives.

I was 40 and very healthy otherwise when I was diagnosed with acute liver failure.

So just, I feel such an immense gratitude to still be here.

- And you're doing that in a lot of ways of spreading that awareness.

Talk about, you're a vice principal.

- Yes.

- And you're doing some unique things in your school.

Tell us about it.

- Yeah, so I'm an assistant principal at Morris Hills High School in Rockaway, New Jersey.

And I've been so blessed that the driver's ed teachers invite me in every marking period, and I talk to students about making educated decisions about organ donation.

It is something that touches all of us in one way or another.

I think sometimes high school students are not thinking about that or thinking, that's something, you know, you think about when you're much older.

But as they start to get their driver's licenses, I want them to know it's important that there's not necessarily a right or wrong decision, but it's important to make an educated decision and to know what their family's wishes are and their family to know their wishes.

We know that, God forbid, there are accidents every day.

And I think it's important to kind of have those conversations.

When I got my license at 17, I asked my parents, "Are you organ donors?"

And they said yes, so I said, "Okay," and I checked the box.

I never thought at 40 I'd be healthy and needing an organ within 24 hours, or I wasn't gonna make it.

Just, never in my realm of thought.

So I want them to be able to kind of make educated decisions for themselves and for their family members and to kind of understand what the process is and what it actually involves.

- What have been their reactions to your story?

- Surprise.

I think at work, you know, sometimes as an administrator and, as teenagers, and I felt the same way about my teachers and my assistant principals, it's kind of like you see them outside of school and oh, they're real people too.

- Right.

(laughs) - So to kind of know that when we tell them, like, treat each other with kindness, you don't know what other people are going home to.

People are always fighting a battle that you know nothing about.

So although I may look like I have it together and I have a great job and I have a great family, which I do, there's still this whole other side of me where every day I had to come to work sometimes and feel terrible.

But it was important that I showed up for myself, that I showed up for the students, and kind of I kept that attitude of positivity and resilience, 'cause I think that perseverance, we talk a lot about that in high school, but I think to kind of show up and be that for the students, I think has really been important.

- Being here today at the 5K, what does it mean, not just to you, but to your family and your team, Team Liver Big, especially your two young daughters, what is it like being here today with them?

- [Emily] It means everything to me.

This has become one of my favorite days of the year.

Everything here this morning is just so positive, and people come together in so many different ways.

And there's this whole transplant community that I really didn't know anything about three years ago.

So I've met so many people, and it turns out that my daughter's first-grade teacher is a part of a team, which I didn't know.

We ran into her here last year.

- Everyone's connected somehow.

They really are.

- Everyone is connected somehow, whether it's somebody that's had something that we would consider more common, like an ACL or an MCL surgery, and that's what I tell the high school students.

- Because they get the tissue donations.

We talked to some of those.

- Yes, absolutely.

Everyone is connected somehow, even when you don't realize it.

And now just sometimes the people that I've talked to, I ran into someone at work the other day and she said, "Hey, someone in my family's on a transplant list for a kidney."

I'm like, "Oh," and then it's like I speak this whole new language and have this whole new support network.

It means everything to me to be here today.

- What does the next couple years look like for you and moving forward with your life after such a really intense life-altering experience?

- Hopefully just more good health, continued happiness, more memories with my family.

I got so emotional at my daughter's preschool graduation and then kindergarten graduation last year, 'cause I kept thinking to myself, "I shouldn't be here.

Medically, I should not be here to see all this."

And the fact that I got to walk them into kindergarten, the fact that I've got to celebrate these milestones that I wasn't sure when I was lying in that hospital bed that I would make it to, it's meant everything to me.

So to continue to spread words of positivity and resilience and perseverance and handling things with just grit, but grace, and allowing myself to know that some days are tough, but the next day might be better.

So to just keep pushing forward and spreading that message, I think is so important.

- Thank you so much for spreading that message, for being here with us today to tell your story.

It's gonna impact so many other lives by doing that.

So thank you so much.

It was great to have you with us, Emily.

- Thank you for having me.

I'm so appreciative.

Thank you.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

- Recently my colleague Mary Gamba and I on our sister series Lessons in Leadership, sat down and talked to a leader in the field of law.

Vito A Gagliardi Jr. with Porzio.

He's the President and CEO of Porzio Government Affairs.

We talked about how the field of law has changed, leading in law, younger people coming into the law, and frankly, the influence and impact of artificial intelligence in the law.

Vito Gagliardi Jr.

Check it out.

Vito, my friend, good to see you.

- Good to see you.

Thanks for the privilege of being with you.

- You got it.

Hey Vito, do this for us.

You went into the law a few years back because you have a passion for what?

- It was really history.

I, as a young man, very young, quite frankly, grade school, read a lot about history, American history, and it seemed to me, Lincoln, Jefferson, Madison, all of these people doing significant things were lawyers.

And so I decided, not so much that's what I wanted to do, but by the time I was seven, I was certain that's what I was going to do, and I'm blessed to be doing it.

- Now, fast forward a few years in the business and your area of expertise, let everybody know is?

- Sure, education law and employment law on the defense side, management side.

- All these years later, your passion for the law right now is what given these incredibly difficult challenges and uncertain times for law firms across this country.

- Well, as has been the case throughout our history, ironically enough, lawyers play an important role in various acts, aspects of our lives.

It even fascinated me when you watch the news, how many stories are about lawsuits and lawyers and the impact of the judicial branch of our government.

And right now, for better or for worse, we have to acknowledge that lawyers and the judicial branch of government are playing a very significant role in the context of our constitutional democracy.

- It is not a boring time to be in law.

Mary, pick it up.

- Vito, what have you found to be the major difference between when you went into law and the young leaders, the young adults that are choosing to go into law today?

Have the attributes changed?

Have the skills changed in terms of what you need to be successful in the legal profession?

- Well, I think generationally the interest in sacrificing so much of your life in order to be successful at this profession has diminished.

That is to say, and not just for lawyers, but doctors and other professionals, the amount of time you have to devote not just to the study, the academic aspect of it, but the act of being a professional, and devoting time, weekends, nights, whatever, there's less interest in that sort of sacrifice.

And I don't say it in a derisive way that it's necessarily bad, but it is a fact that it's unrealistic to expect that the individuals who graduate from law school today are willing to throw themselves at the profession and make themselves whole by working and putting other things to the side the way mine was.

There are exceptions to every rule, but that's the way I respond to your question in a general way.

- I had a quick follow up to that.

How much of a role did artificial intelligence, AI, how much does that play in these young adults, their ability not to cheat the system?

We don't wanna cheat in law or in process of getting there, but how much of it has made it not easier, but now they have a tool that if I need to find some legal precedent for something, I'm not going to the legal library.

I'm to go through a bunch of books.

I can go to chatGPT, type it in and at least have a start.

No?

- A few years ago, a medical professional in the area of mental health, particularly for children, wrote a book.

And the name of the book was "How to Raise Well Adjusted Children in the Age of Instant Everything" and the Age of Instant Everything naturally touches on our profession.

The individuals who are lawyers now didn't go to school with AI.

So the answer to your question really can't be found for about two or three more years.

But what you have to balance, I think we're talking about work-life balance, and let's just talk about work, work balance.

Naturally, you need to take advantage of the technology to make you efficient.

Clients will insist on it, and the competitive aspect of litigation will insist on it.

But you wanna make sure you're not trading that for laziness.

There still has to be room for creativity and intellect.

And one thing that I don't think artificial intelligence is gonna change is this.

A lawyer that I respect, a great deal, he's passed away.

His name was Mike Cole.

He was chief counsel to Governor Kane.

I worked for him for a while and his wife Jane Le Becky was on the Supreme Court.

He taught me that the most important thing that lawyers bring to the table is their judgment.

Clients will dump a complicated set of facts in their laps and ask the lawyer this question, "What do you think I should do?"

- Yep.

- And if you can't answer that question on a regular basis, you are not very valuable to your clients.

And so artificial intelligence is a tool, but it's not gonna replace that critical skill that lawyers have to bring to the table when asked to solve problems.

- Vito, I have no problem saying, you and I are old school guys all about relationships.

Your dad, an extraordinary public servant in the state of New Jersey.

Look up Vito Gagliardi senior.

You'll see who I'm talking about.

Your dad was a relationship guy, so was my dad.

You and I are those kind of professionals.

This phone, the ability to text.

I said to our son the other day, did you talk to so and so about that job opportunity?

He said, yeah, I talked to him.

I said, you talked to him?

He goes, yeah, we were texting.

And I said, texting's not talking.

He said, come on, question Vito.

We're not here to talk about the younger generation.

This is the way they are.

But the reality is, you and I both know that deals get done, relationships get built, things move forward in large part because of human interaction and relationships.

How much harder is it for younger people in general to engage in human communication, not simply texting?

Yeah.

What deals do you work out with a text or an email?

- So experienced lawyers will tell you, as we were talking a moment ago about balancing efficiency with professionalism.

We'll tell you that, yes, and for quick court appearances from certain depositions, doing it online is so much more sophisticated.

Get in the car, drive to the courthouse, whatever.

But when you went to court for those court appearances or when you were regularly taking depositions in person, the conversations while you were waiting in the hallway, sitting in the courtroom, those sort of conversations often lead to two things.

More expedited resolution of differences.

And as you are just pointing out the building of relationships- - And trust and trust.

- Well, yeah, trust, I think, of course, is part of a good relationship.

And so in my 35 years or so of practicing law, I'll tell you what hasn't changed.

Even with the prevalence of basically all the knowledge the world has literally in your pocket.

The one thing that hasn't changed is this, the most consistent way to get new clients is word of mouth, what people say about you.

Now, they may be able to look things up, but of course, clients love it when someone that they trust says, here's who I use to solve this problem.

You should reach out for this person.

And so I try to encourage younger lawyers, just as you're pointing out, to recognize that dynamic has not changed.

The building of relationships leads to successful outcomes, leads to enhancing your reputation, leads to more success in the marketplace.

- Mary, you and I have obsessed over at our not-for-profit production company, the Caucus Educational Corporation, in our leadership development.

It is relationships and everything that it takes to build relationships.

And I don't see how you separate great leadership from building strong relationships.

Hey, Vito, I wanna thank you and the team at Porzio for joining us.

And we wish you and your team all the best.

Thank you, Vito.

- It's been a pleasure.

Thank you.

- You got it.

See you next time.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by RWJBarnabas Health.

Let’s be healthy together.

The New Jersey Education Association.

Kean University.

PSEG Foundation.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

The Russell Berrie Foundation.

The North Ward Center.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

And by New Brunswick Development Corporation.

Promotional support provided by NJBIA.

And by NJBIZ.

- (Narrator) Public service.

It's what we do, at the PSEG Foundation Through volunteer hours, partnerships and our other contributions.

We're committed to empowering communities.

We work hand in hand with you, our neighbors, to educate young people, support research, environmental sustainability and equitable opportunities, provide training and other services all over New Jersey and Long Island.

Uplifting communities.

That's what drives us.

The PSEG Foundation.