>> PARTISAN DIVIDE OVER RAISING >> PARTISAN DIVIDE OVER RAISING THE DEBT CEILING.

SENATE REPUBLICANS REJECT REDISTRICTING BILL CHANGES.

PLUS, BANNING COVID-19 VACCINE MANDATES AND MORE ON INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THE WEEK ENDING OCTOBER 1ST, 2021.

>> INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORTERS OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS, AND BY ICE MILLER, A FULL SERVICE LAW FIRM COMMITTED TO HELPING CLIENTS BUILD, GROW AND PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS.

MORE AT ICEMILLER.COM.

>> THIS WEEK, BOTH OF INDIANA'S U.S.

SENATORS SAID THEY WILL VOTE NO ON RAISING THE NATIONAL DEBT CEILING.

WFIU/WTIU'S ADAM PINKSER REPORTS.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SAYS THE GOVERNMENT COULD DEFAULT ON ITS BILLS IF THE DEBT CEILING ISN'T RAISED.

CONGRESS RAISED THE DEBT CEILING THREE TIMES WHILE PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS IN OFFICE, BUT DEMOCRATS APPARENTLY WILL HAVE TO GO IT ALONE THIS TIME.

SENATOR MIKE BRAUN DOESN'T EXPECT A SINGLE REPUBLICAN TO VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT.

>> U.S. SEN. MIKE BRAUN (R-IND.

): IF WE KEEP ENDORSING, LIFTING, DEBT CEILINGS, CONTINUING RESOLUTIONS, THAT'S A DISSERVICE TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, NOT AN AID.

>> SENATOR BRAUN SAYS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO CREATE MORE DEDICATED FUNDING SOURCES TO OFFSET ITS DEBT, SUCH AS AN INCREASE IN THE FEDERAL GAS TAX.

SENATOR TODD YOUNG SAYS HE'S VOTING NO BECAUSE REPUBLICANS DON'T HAVE A SAY IN THE SPENDING INCREASES BEING PROPOSED BY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

>> SHOULD INDIANA'S US SENATORS VOTE AGAINST THE DEBT CEILING INCREASE?

IT'S THE FIRST QUESTION FOR OUR INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW PANEL.

DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY.

REPUBLICAN JOEY FOX.

JON SCHWANTES, HOST OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS AND NIKI KELLY, STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR THE FORT WAYNE JOURNAL GAZETTE.

I'M INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATEHOUSE REPORTER BRANDON SMITH.

ANN DELANEY, DOES SENATOR BRAUN HAVE A GOOD POINT?

>> YOU KNOW, THERE'S HYPOCRISY AND THERE'S HIGH HYPOCRISY.

SENATOR BRAUN AND SENATOR YOUNG HAD NO PROBLEM LIFTING THE DEBT CEILING WHEN DONALD TRUMP WANTED TO CUT THE TAXES ON CORPORATIONS AND RICH PEOPLE.

THEY WERE ALL FOR IT THEN, ALL FOR IT.

SO, NO, HE DOESN'T HAVE A POINT.

IT WOULD BE NICE IF THERE WAS SOME REPUBLICAN PARTICIPATION IN THIS PROCESS.

BUT THEY ARE SO DRIVEN BY THE RADICAL RIGHT THAT CONTROLS THEIR PARTY THAT THEY DON'T WANT A COMPROMISE.

YOU HAVE REPUBLICAN AFTER REPUBLICAN SAYING THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL THAT'S ALSO BEFORE THE CONGRESS NOW IS A GOOD BILL.

BUT THEY CAN'T VOTE FOR IT BECAUSE THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE NEXT BILL.

IT GOES ON AND ON.

IT'S ALL PARTISAN POLITICS AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FISCAL POLICY AT ALL, AND SITUATIONAL IN THE EXTREME, AND THEY SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED, EMBARRASSED, BOTH OF THEM, BY THEIR POSITION.

>> JOEY FOX, WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MINORITY, WE OFTEN SEE LAWMAKERS TAKE VOTES ON BILLS BECAUSE THEY CAN, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY WILL ULTIMATELY PASS.

IS THIS A CASE WHERE THEY WANT TO MAKE A STATEMENT AND THEY'RE RIGHT TO DO IT?

>> OF COURSE YOU'RE RIGHT TO MAKE A STATEMENT ABOUT THE CONTINUING DEBT, CONTINUING SPENDING.

AND THAT'S BEEN TRUE UNDER DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATIONS, UNFORTUNATELY, FOR A LONG TIME.

I THINK, THOUGH, WHAT ANN IS TALKING ABOUT, ON THE SUPPORT FOR THE BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, WHERE THERE IS SUPPORT FOR NEW SPENDING, SHE'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THE REPUBLICANS ARE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT COMES NEXT BECAUSE IT'S A THREE TRILLION PLUS IN NEW SPENDING, WHEN WE CLEARLY CAN'T AFFORD THE SPENDING WE'VE ALREADY APPROVED -- >> BUT MOST OF THE BIPARTISAN SPENDING BILL THAT DOES INFRASTRUCTURE WHICH WE ALL RECOGNIZE IS NEEDED.

OKAY.

DO THAT.

>> BECAUSE THE PROGRESS LEFT, THE DRAMATIC PARTY IS IMMEDIATELY AND ENSURING THAT THE SPEAKER IN THE HOUSE WON'T ALLOW THAT VOTE UNLESS THEY ALSO HAVE THIS THREE-AND-A-HALF TRILLION DOLLAR BOONDOGGLE.

WE CAN'T AFFORD THE DEBT WE ALREADY HAVE.

OTHERWISE THEY WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT RAISING THE DEBT CEILING.

>> BECAUSE OF THE TRUMP TAX CUTS.

>> NIKI KELLY, I WANT TO -- >> THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

HOLD ON, THAT'S A RIDICULOUS POINT.

LET PEOPLE'S OWN MONEY STAY IN THEIR POCKET.

IT IS NOT NEW SPENDING.

>> OH, YEAH, RIGHT.

>> NIKI KELLY, I WANT TO ASK, WE HEARD A MICROCOSM HOW COMPLICATED THIS ISSUE HAS BECOME.

IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE DEBT CEILING, IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT FUNDING THE GOVERNMENT, IT IS ALSO ABOUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL WHICH HAS BEEN TIED TO THE OVERALL SPENDING BILL.

HOW IS THE AVERAGE PERSON SUPPOSED TO MAKE SENSE OF ANY OF THIS?

>> I CAN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE, AND I FOLLOW IT ON A DAILY BASIS.

WHEN THEY TIE THINGS TOGETHER LIKE THIS, I THINK IT HURTS THE GENERAL FAITH IN GOVERNMENT THAT PEOPLE HAVE, BECAUSE -- AND WHETHER THAT'S ON THE STATE LEVEL, NATIONAL LEVEL, REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT, I THINK THEY WANT TO SEE UP AND DOWN VOTES ONNAL POLICY IN FRONT OF THEM AND NOT TIE EVERYTHING TOGETHER.

NOW, ON THE DEBT CEILING ISSUE, I THINK IT'S PRETTY NORMAL FOR THE MINORITY PARTY, NOT TO SUPPORT DEBT CEILING INCREASES.

WE'VE SEEN IT UNDER BOTH SIDES.

AND SO I THINK THE REPUBLICANS WILL PROBABLY STICK TO THEIR GUNS.

I BELIEVE THERE ARE SUPPORTERS, CONSTITUENTS ARE FINE WITH THAT.

>> JON SCHWANTES, DO YOU THINK THE AVERAGE AMERICAN SHOULD CARE ABOUT THE DEBT CEILING LEVEL?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

A FAILURE TO PAY ATTENTION OR CARE ABOUT IT INVITES PERIL, I THINK, FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO CHOOSE TO BURY THEIR HEAD IN THE PROVERBIAL SAND.

I THINK WE CAN ALL BE CONCERNED ABOUT DEBTS SUSPENDING, AND WE CAN ALL BEE MONEY THE FACT THAT PRESIDENTS OF BOTH PARTIES, ADMINISTRATIONS IN PARTNERSHIP WITH CONGRESS WHEN IT IS CONTROLLED BY DEMOCRATS, AND REPUBLICANS, HAVE LARGELY ACCELERATED SPENDING, PY FOR A GENERATION.

OR MORE.

AND WE CAN ALL SAY THAT'S, GEE, THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING, IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE HAD BALANCED BOOKS, I'M RIGHT THERE WITH YOU.

BUT TANKING THE ECONOMY IS PROBABLY NOT THE BEST WAY TO ACHIEVE THAT.

AND THE REASON THAT AVERAGE HOOSIERS, AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY SHOULD BE CONCERNED IS, IF YOU HAVE INVESTMENTS THROUGH YOUR WORK, 401(k) PLANS, SOME OTHER SORT OF RETIREMENT PLAN OR HAVE ANY OTHER INVESTMENTS IN THE STOCK MARKET, SECURITIES OF ANY KIND, BASICALLY YOU WOULD BE REALLY ROLLING THE DICE.

AND THIS ISN'T MY OPINION, YOU CAN ASK JANET YELLEN, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE, WHO, BY THE WAY, WAS AN APPOINTEE OF DONALD TRUMP AND HIS WARNING THAT THIS WOULD BE CALAMITY IF THE DEBT CEILING WERE NOT RAISED.

THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM, AND YOU DON'T WANT TO TOY WITH IT FOR POLITICAL REASONS.

>> TIME NOW FOR VIEWER FEEDBACK.

EACH WEEK WE POSE AN UNSCIENTIFIC, ONLINE POLL QUESTION IN CONJUNCTION WITH OUR ICEMILLER E-MAIL AND TEXT ALERTS.

THIS WEEK'S QUESTION: DO MOST AMERICANS CARE ABOUT THE NATIONAL DEBT CEILING?

>> A, YES, OR B, NO.

LAST WEEK'S QUESTION: SHOULD GOV.

HOLCOMB USE UNSPENT FEDERAL CORONAVIRUS RELIEF FUND DOLLARS TO INCREASE TRAFFIC SAFETY ENFORCEMENT?

AS SOME HOUSE DEMOCRATS ARE PROPOSING.

JUST 33% OF YOU SAY HE SHOULD, 67% SAY NO.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TAKE PART IN THE POLL GO TO WFYI.ORG/IWIR AND LOOK FOR THE POLL.

INDIANA SENATE REPUBLICANS REJECTED ALL PROPOSED CHANGES TO THEIR REDISTRICTING MAP THURSDAY THAT HAD BEEN PROMPTED BY PUBLIC CONCERNS.

AMENDMENTS OFFERED BY DEMOCRATS WOULD HAVE KEPT MAJOR INDIANA CITIES MORE WHOLE IN THE SENATE MAP.

>> EVANSVILLE WOULD'VE BEEN ITS OWN DISTRICT, RATHER THAN SPLIT IN HALF.

WEST LAFAYETTE AND LAFAYETTE WOULD'VE BEEN KEPT TOGETHER, RATHER THAN SEPARATED INTO TWO, LARGELY RURAL DISTRICTS.

A SLIVER OF A PREDOMINANTLY RURAL DISTRICT WOULD'VE BEEN REMOVED FROM MARION COUNTY.

AND FORT WAYNE, CURRENTLY SPLINTERED INTO FOUR DISTRICTS, WOULD BECOME LARGELY CONTAINED IN JUST TWO.

REPUBLICAN SENATOR ERIC KOCH, DEBATING THAT LAST PROPOSAL, OBJECTED TO REDUCING THE NUMBER OF LAWMAKERS REPRESENTING THE CITY.

>> SEN ERIC KOCH (R-BEDFORD): WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO REDUCE THE INFLUENCE OF THE CITY OF FORT WAYNE IN THE INDIANA SENATE.

>> BUT DEMOCRATIC SENATOR GREG TAYLOR SAYS IT'S REPUBLICANS WHO DO THAT BY INCLUDING URBAN VOTERS IN LARGELY RURAL DISTRICTS THAT STRETCH MULTIPLE COUNTIES AWAY.

>> SEN. GREG TAYLOR (D-INDIANAPOLIS): YOU'VE KEPT THE SOUTH SIDE AND THE PEOPLE OF FORT WAYNE FROM HAVING A VOICE IN THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY FOR THINGS THAT THEY THINK ARE BETTER FOR THEM, THEIR FAMILIES, THEIR LOVED ONES.

AND THAT'S NOT RIGHT.

>> ALL THOSE DEMOCRATIC PROPOSALS WERE REJECTED ALONG PARTY LINES.

>> JOEY FOX, HOUSE REPUBLICANS WERE RESPONSIVE TO SOME OF THE CONCERNS BROUGHT BY THE PUBLIC.

WHY WEREN'T SENATE REPUBLICANS?

>> IT'S GREAT TO BE A DEMOCRAT RIGHT NOW DEBATING REDISTRICTING IN INDIANA.

YOU GET TWO BASES, COMPACTNESS AND COMPETITIVENESS.

AND YOU GET ONE OF THE TWO.

AND IF YOU DON'T GET ONE, YOU RUN TO THE OTHER BASE AND SAY THE WHOLE PROCESS IS STILL UNFAIR.

THE SENATE REPUBLICANS AND THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS HAVE PUT FORWARD MAPS THAT ARE MORE COMPACT, THEY REDUCE THE SPLIT IN CITIES, TOWNS, TOWNSHIPS, SCHOOL DISTRICTS, ET CETERA, ACROSS THE STATE.

AND NOT ONE DEMOCRAT SEEMED TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER SENATOR KOCH'S QUESTION WHY THEY WOULD WANT ONE PERSON REPRESENTING FORT WAYNE INSTEAD OF FOUR.

MARION COUNTY, THE STATE'S LARGEST CITY, OUR CAPITAL, WILL HAVE TEN SENATORS UNDER THESE MAPS.

ISN'T IT FAIR THAT FORT WAYNE HAS FOUR.

THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO BE UPSET WITH THESE MAPS NO MATTER WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE.

>> TO THAT POINT, ANN, IS JOEY RIGHT.

DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO FIND SOMETHING THEY WERE UNHAPPY ABOUT, CHANGES OR NOT REPUBLICANS MADE?

>> IT'S NOT SIMPLY DEMOCRATS.

YOU HAD NON-PARTISAN GROUPS TALKING ABOUT HOW GERRYMANDERED THESE DISTRICTS WORK.

>> UNPARTISAN, PLEASE.

>> IN FORT WAYNE IN PARTICULAR, THEY HAVE NO SENATOR.

THEY DILUTE THE DEMOCRATIC VOTE THAT IS FORT WAYNE AND PUT IT OUT INTO RURAL COUNTIES, FAR REMOVED WITH COMPLETELY DIFFERENT INTERESTS THAN FORT WAYNE, YOU GET THE SAME THING WE'VE SEEN IN MARION COUNTY.

WE HAD THAT LEGISLATION, 2012, TO START CHARTER SCHOOLS IN IPS.

NOBODY HO REPRESENTS IPS, HO REPRESENTS IPS, AND NO REPRESENTATIVE VOTED IN AND NO REPRESENTATIVE VOTED IN FAVOR OF THAT.

AND YET IT WAS PASSED.

IT WAS PASSED BY THOSE SAME RURAL DISTRICTS.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT COMPACTNESS.

AND THIS ISN'T ABOUT FAIRNESS.

THIS IS ABOUT KEEPING THE SUPERMAJORITY FOR THE REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE.

THAT'S WHY EVANSVILLE IS SPLIT, WEST LAFAYETE AND LAFAYETTE IS SPLIT AND THAT'S WHY THEY CARVED UP FORT WAYNE AND THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE A RURAL AREA IN MARION COUNTY.

ABOUT TRYING TO MAXIMIZE THEIR NUMBER IN THE LEGISLATURE.

THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS YOU DON'T HAVE COMPETITIVENESS, OF COURSE, AS SENATOR KOCH SAID, THEY DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT COMPETITIVENESS.

THEY DON'T.

THAT WAS ACTUALLY A TRUTHFUL STATEMENT ON HIS PART.

>> BUT WHAT HAPPENS -- >> HOLD ON.

JOEY I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS.

WHICH IS THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN MAP, IF YOU LOOK AT IT BASED ON LOOKING AT THE LAST PRESIDENTIAL, WOULD LOSE ONE OR TWO HOUSE REPUBLICN HELD SEATS THE WAY THEY HAVE REDRAWN THINGS, BUT THE SENATE REPUBLICAN MAP, WHICH IS ALREADY AS WE CURRENTLY SIT, 39-11 FOR REPUBLICANS, WOULD ACTUALLY GO UP FOR REPUBLICANS TO MAYBE EVEN 40 OR 41.

DOES THAT SEEM REPRESENTATIVE OF INDIANA?

>> NO.

>> I THINK -- THANKS, ANN.

I THINK THAT THE MAPS FOLLOW EVERYTHING THAT THEY'RE REQUIRED TO DO.

DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO BE UPSET REGARDLESS.

I HATE TO BREAK THIS TO ANN, I CAN'T FIND A WAY TO DRAW A SENATE MAP THAT MAKES DEMOCRATS COMPETITIVE IN THIS STATE.

>> I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO BE 50/50.

WHAT I'M ASKING YOU TO DO TO HAVE ACTUAL COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST OTHER THAN THE SENATE SUPERMAJORITY REPRESENTED.

TWO DISTRICTS -- >> THE DEMOCRATIC PROPOSALS WOULD HAVE CARVED EVANSVILLE ALL THE WAY OUT OF THE MIDDLE AND BUILT A HORSESHOE AROUND IT, A REPUBLICAN BUILT HORSESHOE -- ABOUT GERRYMANDERING.

>> YOU'RE SAYING TWO -- THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

>> I WANT TO ASK, NIKI, THERE WAS A DEBATE IN THE SENATE YESTERDAY BETWEEN SENATOR KOCH AND PREDOMINANTLY SENATOR TAYLOR ABOUT WHAT IT REALLY MEANS TO HAVE A VOICE IN THE SENATE THAT I THOUGHT WAS REALLY INTERESTING.

SENATE DEMOCRATS AND SENATE REPUBLICANS SAYING THE REPUBLICANS SAYING WELL WE'RE GIVING FORT WAYNE, FOR INSTANCE, MORE SENATORS AND THEREFORE MORE OF A VOICE, WHILE SENATE DEMOCRATS WERE SAYING YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY GIVING THE PEOPLE OF FORT WAYNE MORE OF A VOICE BECAUSE YOU'RE SPREADING THOSE DISTRICTS INTO COUNTIES AWAY.

DO YOU THINK ONE SIDE HAS A BETTER ARGUMENT?

>> LOOK, I DON'T KNOW.

BUT I THINK WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN MAP MADE FORT WAYNE MORE COMPACT, AND THAT WAS A GOOD THING THAT PEOPLE PRAISED IN FORT WAYNE, BECAUSE THAT MEANT THEY WOULD HAVE MORE REPRESENTATION.

BUT PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIVE IN FORT WAYNE VERSUS JUST REPRESENTING A TINY PART AND THEY LIVE OUT IN A COUNTY NEARBY.

WHEREAS THE SENATE TOOK THE EXACT OPPOSITE, THEY'RE SAYING THEY'RE GIVING MORE REPRESENTATION, BUT THAT FRACTURES THEM OUT.

SO SOMEONE HAS TO BE WRONG, RIGHT?

THEY CAN'T HAVE BOTH WAYS WHERE ONE IS MAKING THEM MORE COMPACT AND THAT'S AN IMPROVEMENT, ONE IS MAKING THEM LESS COMPACT AND THEY'RE SAYING THAT'S AN IMPROVEMENT.

SO I MEAN THE PEOPLE I'M HEARING FROM ARE UPSET BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE, YES, MAYBE PART OF THE CITY OF FORT WAYNE WILL BE, QUOTE, REPRESENTED BY ANOTHER PERSON.

BUT IF 90% OF THAT PERSON'S DISTRICT IS OUTSIDE OF ALLEN COUNTY, THEN HOW MUCH ATTENTION ARE THEY REALLY GOING TO GET?

>> JON SCHWANTES, TO THAT POINT, WHAT DOES IT REALLY MEAN TO HAVE A VOICE OR REPRESENTATION IN THE INDIANA GENERAL ASSEMBLY?

>> I DON'T THINK -- I'LL SAY WHAT IT'S NOT, I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARILY DETERMINED BY THE NUMBER OF REPRESENTS OR NUMBER OF SENATORS WHOSE DISTRICTS HAPPEN TO INTERSECT A GIVEN, SAY, URBAN AREA, OR ANY KIND OF POPULATION CONCENTRATION THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO SEPARATE.

I COULD DRAW A MAP, I THINK, THERE WAS REFERENCE, JOEY MADE, TO INDIANAPOLIS HAVING TEN SEATS UNDER THE MAPS.

I COULD PROBABLY COME UP -- NOW IT WOULD VIOLATE THE WHOLE NOTION OF COMPACTNESS, BUT ANYBODY COULD COME UP WITH A MAP WHERE ALL TEN INDIANAPOLIS SEATS, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, ARE DRAWN IN A WAY THAT EACH -- THE INDIANAPOLIS RESIDENTS IN THAT DISTRICT ARE OUTNUMBERED BY, AGAIN, THESE WOULD BE CRAZY LOOKING MAPS.

YOU COULD BASICALLY ASSURE THAT THE SO-CALLED TEN SEATS FOR INDIANAPOLIS VOTED FOR INDIANAPOLIS'S INTERESTS, ZERO PERCENT OF THE TIME -- I DON'T THINK NUMBERS ALONE TELL THE STORY.

>> YOU COULD DRAW INDIANAPOLIS TO LOOK LIKE A PIZZA SO THAT JUST ENOUGH OF MARION COUNTY, WHICH THEORETICALLY IS GOING TO BE MORE DEMOCRATIC WOULD OUTWEIGH SO YOU WOULD HAVE A BUNCH OF DISTRICTS CIRCLING AROUND FROM MONUMENT CIRCLE THAT WOULD BE CLOSER TO 45-55 SPLITS, IN WHICH CASE WE WOULD BE WITH THE DEMOCRATS SCREAMING ABOUT GERRYMANDERING.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE COMPACTNESS AND COMPETITIVENESS, LET'S NOT FORGET THE TWO LONGER STANDING TERMS THAT ARE OFTEN ASSOCIATED WITH MAP DRAWING, AND THAT'S PACKING AND CRACKING.

WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO GET INTO WHAT THOSE TERMS MEAN.

BUT PEOPLE CAN GO LOOK THEM UP, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF.

THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T HAVE INDIANAPOLIS AS A PIZZA, BECAUSE YOU ALSO HAVE SOME PACKING GOING ON TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DEMOCRAT VOTES ARE ISOLATED IN THOSE AREAS.

>> LET'S HAVE COMPETITIVE DISTRICT BUT LET'S NOT, WHAT DO WE WANT?

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET'S... >> THAT'S NOT FROM THE INDIANA SENATE.

>> THE INDIANA HOUSE RECENTLY DISMISSED AN ATTEMPT BY ONE LAWMAKER TO BAN ANY COVID-19 VACCINE MANDATES IN THE STATE.

BUT THAT LIKELY WON'T BE THE LAST TIME THE ISSUE COMES UP IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

>> REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JACOB TRIED TO INTRODUCE AN AMENDMENT TO THE REDISTRICTING BILL THAT WOULD BAR ANYONE FROM IMPOSING A COVID-19 VACCINE MANDATE THAT INCLUDES NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES - SUCH AS BEING FIRED, FINED OR BANNED FROM A FACILITY.

THE HOUSE REFUSED TO CONSIDER IT.

THE AMENDMENT VIOLATED HOUSE RULES, SO THERE WASN'T EVEN A VOTE.

BUT AFTER THE HOUSE FLOOR SESSION, WHEN REPUBLICAN SPEAKER TODD HUSTON WAS ASKED WHETHER HE SUPPORTS THE IDEA, HE SAID HE STRUGGLES WITH IT.

>> HOUSE SPEAKER TODD HUSTON (R-FISHERS): BUT I KNOW THAT IT'S GOING TO BE A DISCUSSION THAT'S TAKING PLACE RIGHT NOW ACROSS MEMBERS OF OUR CAUCUS.

WE'LL HAVE, WE'LL HAVE - I'M SURE THAT'LL BE A DISCUSSION OVER THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS.

>> HUSTON HAS SAID REPEATEDLY THAT LAWMAKERS' CURRENT WORK AT THE STATEHOUSE IS SOLELY ON REDISTRICTING.

SO, ANY LEGISLATIVE ACTION ON VACCINE MANDATE BANS SHOULDN'T COME UNTIL NEXT SESSION.

>> NIKI KELLY, DO YOU THINK THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WILL BAN COVID VACCINE MANDATES NEXT SESSION?

>> ONI DON'T KNOW IF -- I DON'T KNOW IT WILL GET THROUGH, THERE WILL BE HEARINGS, THERE WILL BE BILLS.

I WOULD SAY IT'S A TOSS-UP RIGHT NOW.

IT'S QUITE A TIGHTROPE THOUGH FOR REPUBLICANS BECAUSE IN GENERAL, THEY SORT OF STAND FOR THE IDEALS OF STAYING OUT OF PRIVATE RUN BUSINESS, RIGHT?

BUT THIS IS -- WOULD TELL WHAT A PRIVATE RUN BUSINESS IS OR ISN'T ALLOWED TO DO WITH THEIR EMPLOYEES.

IT WILL BE AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION, FOR SURE.

>> JON, I'M NOT GOING TO ASK YOU WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK THEY WILL.

BUT I WILL ASK YOU, BY THE TIME THEY GET TO CONSIDERING A BILL AND EVEN PASSING A BILL LIKE THIS, IT WILL BE MONTHS FROM NOW, PRESUMING THAT THEY ACTUALLY DO IT NEXT SESSION, JANUARY, FEBRUARY, MARCH OF NEXT YEAR.

SO DO YOU THINK THAT THAT HELPS FOLKS WHO WANT TO SEE -- WHO DON'T WANT TO SEE THIS KIND OF LEGISLATION BECAUSE THEY WILL HAVE BEEN IN PLACE LONGER, THERE WILL BE LESS PERHAPS CONSTERNATION THE LONGER THESE ARE IN PLACE.

DO YOU THINK THERE IS ANYTHING TO THAT?

>> I DO THINK THAT'S THE CASE.

I MEAN, PEOPLE WILL BECOME MORE ACCUSTOMED TO THEM, BUSINESS WILL HAVE LARGELY BOUGHT INTO THEM, GOVERNMENT AT VARIOUS LEVELS FROM LOCAL TO FEDERAL HAVE -- WILL HAVE BOUGHT INTO THEM, AND THEY WILL HAVE PRODUCED RESULTS.

WE ALREADY ARE SEEING RESULTS, WHICH ARE TRACEABLE IN PART TO MANDATES.

AND SOME OF THE DATA SUGGESTS, WELL LET'S LOOK AT THE CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION.

THEY'RE ACTUALLY PROJECTING DECREASE.

THAT'S A WORD WE DON'T OFTEN ASSOCIATE WITH COVID-19, DECREASES IN NEW CASE DIAGNOSES AND HOSPITALIZATIONS AND OF COURSE DEATHS.

THAT'S ALL GOOD.

SO SEVERAL THINGS.

YES, PEOPLE MIGHT GET USED TO THESE AND SEE IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD.

TWO, THEY MAY SEE THEY'RE WORKING AND WE DON'T HAVE AS MANY PEOPLE DYING OR GETTING SICK.

IF THAT'S THE CASE, GIVEN THE SHORT ATTENTION SPAN OF AMERICAN ELECTORATE AND GOVERNANCE THERE WILL BE OTHER CRISES OR RED HERON WE CAN TALK IF COVID-19 IS OFF THE PLATE BY THEN, WE HOPE.

>> THIS SEEMS TO HAVE PUT REPUBLICANS IN AN INTERESTING SPOT PHILOSOPHICALLY, DO YOU THINK THAT THE INDIANA GENERAL ASSEMBLY SHOULD BAN PRIVATE COMPANIES FROM IMPOSING THESE SORTS OF MANDATES?

>> I DON'T.

FIRST OF ALL, EVERYBODY SHOULD GET VACCINATED, IT IS SAFE, EFFECTIVE, IT WORKS.

IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY.

SECOND, I'M NOT SURE, THE WAY YOU'VE PHRASED THE FIRST QUESTION, I'M NOT SURE THE SPEAKER SAID HE WAS UNSURE, I THINK HE WAS SAYING THE CAUCUS HAD DIFFERENCES OF OPINION AND WASN'T SURE.

WHAT YOU'RE SEEING WITHIN THE CAUCUS ARE GROUPS OF PEOPLE THAT KIND OF TILT MORE EITHER TOWARDS THE RIGHTS OF PRIVATE BUSINESSES, AND THE RIGHTS OF INDIVIDUALS, AND AS YOU CAN PROBABLY TELL, WHERE I PERSONALLY COME DOWN ON THAT ISSUE.

I THINK THAT'S THE IDEOLOGICAL CONVERSATION THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE HAPPEN, WHO IS RIGHT, TRUMP WHOM, THE RIGHT OF THE PRIVATE BUSINESSES TO SAY YOU CAN OR CAN'T, OR IS THE ULTIMATE RIGHT THE INDIVIDUAL LEVEL?

I THINK WE KIND OF KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING TO COME OUT, THAT'S THE FIGHT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE INSIDE THE CAUCUS.

>> TO BE FAIR, I DID ASK YOU, IN RESPONSE TO MY QUESTION, I ASKED HIM HOW HE PERSONALLY FELT ABOUT THE IDEA OF BANNING PRIVATE COMPANIES FROM IMPOSING THESE MANDATES, AND HE SAID I STRUGGLE WITH IT.

>> I APOLOGIZE.

>> THAT'S FINE.

I WANT TO ASK YOU, DO YOU THINK THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS GOING TO GO THROUGH AND BAN THESE MANDATES?

>> I HOPE NOT.

WHAT I'M HEARING FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE, I GOT THE VACCINE AND WHAT'S THE MATTER WITH THESE PEOPLE?

I'M SICK OF HEARING ABOUT THESE PEOPLE.

I'M SICK OF THESE PEOPLE WHO WON'T SPEND $20 TO GET A VACCINE WHICH THE GOVERNMENT PAYS FOR, BUT LET THE ANTIBODIES AT A COST OF $2,100 PER PERSON.

THOSE CONVERSATIONS ARE OCCURRING AND THERE IS GOING TO BE PUSHBACK.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY THEY HAVE TO TELL PEOPLE THAT THEY CAN'T MAKE CERTAIN PARAMETERS ABOUT EMPLOYMENT.

THERE ARE CERTAIN GENERAL STATUTES, OR A HEALTH EMERGENCY, AN ANTI- -- ANY PROBLEMS WITH -- AN ANTI-MANDATE FOR VACCINES TO AN EMPLOYER, I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THEY COULD PASS THAT CONSTITUTIONALLY.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW WHAT, I HAVE EMPLOYEES, AND I MANDATED IT, AND THEY ALL GOT IT.

OKAY, AND THEY ALL HAVE THE SENSE TO KNOW IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR CO-WORKERS AND FAMILIES.

FRANKLY, I'M GETTING A LITTLE TIRED OF LISTENING TO THAT OTHER GROUP OUT THERE THAT TALK ABOUT THEIR RIGHTS, THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO INFECT OTHER PEOPLE.

NOR DO THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO BELOW UP EVERYONE'S HEALTHCARE COSTS BECAUSE THEY'RE HOSPITALIZED FOR MONTHS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE SENSE TO GET VACCINATED >> ANN, I GUESS I WANT TO KNOW WHY YOU HATE FREEDOM SO MUCH.

>> MOVING ON, AN UNKNOWN RUST COLORED AN UNKNOWN RUST-COLORED SUBSTANCE FROM THE US STEEL PLANT IN PORTAGE WAS FOUND LEAKING INTO A LAKE MICHIGAN TRIBUTARY THIS WEEK.

STATE AND FEDERAL ENVIRONMENTAL AGENCIES ARE WORKING WITH U-S STEEL TO INVESTIGATE THE CAUSE OF THE LEAK.

AS INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING'S REBECCA THIELE REPORTS, THIS COMES JUST WEEKS AFTER US STEEL AGREED TO PAY FOR A MASSIVE CHEMICAL SPILL AT THE PLANT FOUR YEARS AGO.

>> IN 2017, US STEEL'S PORTAGE FACILITY SPILLED 300 POUNDS OF THE CANCER-CAUSING CHEMICAL HEXAVALENT CHROMIUM INTO THE BURNS WATERWAY.

SINCE THEN, THE PLANT HAS HAD AT LEAST SEVEN OTHER WATER VIOLATIONS.

EARLIER THIS MONTH THE COMPANY AGREED TO PAY MORE THAN A MILLION DOLLARS FOR THE 2017 SPILL.

PORTAGE CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT COLLIN CZILLI SAYS ANY LEAK OR SPILL ALONG THE LAKE THREATENS RESIDENTS' DRINKING WATER AND THEIR LIVELIHOODS.

>> COLLIN CZILLI: IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING THAT THIS CONTINUALLY HAPPENS AND OUR HANDS AS A CITY ARE TIED.

>> CZILLI SAYS ONLY THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY AND INDIANA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT CAN MAKE SURE U-S STEEL COMPLIES WITH ITS PERMIT — UNLESS THE CITY TAKES THE COMPANY TO COURT.

>> JON SCHWANTES, DOES MORE NEED TO BE DONE WITH U-S STEEL?

>> IT SEEMS SO I..

I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON THE SUBJECT.

IF THERE IS IS A REOCCURRENCE OF PROBLEMS, COMMON SENSE WOULD SAY SOMETHING ELSE NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

>> THE QUESTION BECOMES WHO IS GOING TO DO IT?

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND THE EPA, THE STATE ADMINISTRATION AND IDEM >> THE FIRST AS OPPOSED TO THE LATTER.

THAT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THIS WEEK.

OUR PANEL IS DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY.

REPUBLICAN JOEY FOX.

JON SCHWANTES OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

AND NIKI KELLY OF THE FORT WAYNE JOURNAL GAZETTE.

IF YOU'D LIKE A PODCAST OF THIS PROGRAM YOU CAN FIND IT AT WFYI.ORG/IWIR OR STARTING MONDAY YOU CAN STREAM IT OR GET IT ON DEMAND FROM XFINITY AND ON THE WFYI APP.

I'M BRANDON SMITH OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

JOIN US NEXT TIME BECAUSE A LOT CAN HAPPEN IN AN INDIANA WEEK.

♪♪ >> INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORTERS OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS, AND BY ICE MILLER.

ICE MILLER IS A FULL SERVICE LAW FIRM COMMITTED TO HELPING CLIENTS BUILD, GROW AND PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS.

MORE AT ICEMILLER.COM.

THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE PANELISTS.

"INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" IS A WFYI PRODUCTION IN ASSOCIATION WITH INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING