>> Ted: COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, WE'LL TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE DEAL TO LIFT THE NATION'S DEBT LIMIT.

ALSO TONIGHT, A NEW DOCUMENTARY LOOKS AT HOMELESSNESS IN FLAGSTAFF AND TAMMY LEITNER TOOK ABOUT HER NEW CRIME MEMOIR.

THAT'S NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

MARICOPA COUNTY SUPERVISOR, GATES, WILL NOT BE RUNNING FOR REELECTION AND WILL PURSUE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES.

HE CLAIMED WITHOUT EVIDENCE THAT MARICOPA COUNTY IN SOME WAY RIGGED THE 2022 ELECTIONS AND TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT OUR ELECTIONS IN THE FACE OF FALSE INFORMATION ADDING, QUOTE, MY FIGHT FOR THE TRUTH REMAINS UNHINDERED.

>>> ASU TO OPEN A NEW MEDICAL SCHOOL TO HELP STATE DEAL WITH SHORTAGE OF HEALTHCARE WORKERS.

THEY APPROVED $30 MILLION COMMITMENT TO INCREASE THE STATE'S HEALTHCARE WORKFORCE.

AS PART OF THAT COMMITMENT, THE NEW MEDICAL SCHOOL CALLED THE ASU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AND ADVANCED MEDICAL ENGINEERING WILL FOCUS ON BIOSCIENCE AND ENGINEERING.

ASU TODAY ANNOUNCED IT WILL EXPAND THE LONG-STANDING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE MAYO CLINIC THROUGH THE ASU HEALTH FUTURE'S CENTER.

>>> AND ECONOMIC NOTE, THIS IS THE HIGHEST SINCE LAST NOVEMBER BY FREDDIE MAC SHOWS THE AVERAGE AT 6.79%, A SLIGHT INCREASE OVER LAST WEEK AND A HIGHER TIME THAN LAST YEAR.

ANALYSTS SAY THE NUMBERS INDICATE THE U.S. ECONOMY IS STRONG, BUT THAT STRENGTH IS A SOURCE OF CONCERN REGARDING INFLATION WHICH COULD MEAN ANOTHER RATE HIKE WHEN THE FED MEETS THIS MONTH.

>>> AS OF THE RECORDING OF OUR SHOW LATE THIS AFTERNOON, THE U.S. SENATE HAS YET TO PASS THE DEBT LIMIT BILL APPROVED BY THE HOUSE YESTERDAY.

THE SENATE IS EXPECTED TO PASS A LEGISLATION AND PRESIDENT BIDEN IS EXPECTED TO SIGN THE BILL WHICH WOULD KEEP THE COUNTRY FROM DEFAULTING ON IT DEBT.

JOINING US TO DISCUSS WHAT THE LEGISLATION CALLS FOR AND HOW IT WOULD AFFECT ARIZONA AND THE COUNTRY IS DENNIS HOFFMAN.

THE DEAL ITSELF, WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?

>> WELL, WE CAN GO OFF ONTO FISCAL POLICY, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU WANT THAT.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SPENDS, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TAKES MONEY IN TAXES.

AS WE GO THROUGH TIME, WE SPEND MORE THAN WE TAKE IN TAXES AND WE ROLL UP DEFICITS TO FINANCE THE DEFICITS AND WE HAVE TO ISSUE DEBTS.

CONGRESS IN THEIR INFINITES WITH SOME ABOUT ONE HUNDRED YEARS AGO DECIDED THAT THEY WERE GOING TO PASS JUDGMENT ON THE AMOUNT OF DEBT THAT CAN BE OUTSTANDING.

SO WE REACH PERIODICALLY, WE REACH DEBT LIMITS.

AND THIS WAS ANOTHER EPISODE WHERE WE'RE ABOUT TO REACH THE DEBT LIMIT, SO THEY HAD TO TAKE ACTION TO SUSPEND THE LIMIT OR RAISE IT OR WHATEVER.

THEY'RE DECIDING TO SUSPEND IT.

>> Ted: UNTIL THE END OF NEXT YEAR?

>> TWO YEARS.

>> Ted: S >> Ted: CAPS NONDEFENSE SUSPENDING TO GET THE REPUBLICAN SIDE INVOLVED AND CAPS NONDEFENSE SPENDING AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN AND HOW DOES IT AFFECTS?

>> IT'S A LOT OF LITTLE THINGS THAT MANY OF THE EXPENDITURES ARE NOT IMPORTANT TO ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL BUT A HANDFUL THAT ARE IMPORTANT.

THERE'S FOREST MANAGEMENT AND SOME FEDERAL POLICEING COME UNDER THE DISCRETIONARY AND IT'S EVERYTHING THAT FALLS OUTSIDE OF, YOU KNOW, REGULAR BIG PROGRAMS LIKE DEFENSE.

>> Ted: WHAT ABOUT PUBLIC EDUCATION, TRANSPORTATION, THESE SORTS OF THINGS?

>> PUBLIC EDUCATION IS MOSTLY FUNDED AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL, SO IT'S NOT AN ISSUE AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LEVEL, BUT AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS, ABSOLUTELY AND THAT INFLUENCES TRANSPORTATION.

>> Ted: I READ THAT NOW CAP SUSPENDING ALLOWS IT TO INCREASE BUT ONLY BY 1% A YEAR AFTER 2024.

IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

>> Ted: WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT?

>> WELL, ONE SIDE OF THE AISLE, THE REPUBLICANS WOULD NOT GIVE AN INCH ON RAISING TAXES AND THEY WOULD NOT GIVE AN INCH ON DEFENSE SPENDING.

THEY WANTED TO CONTINUE DEFENSE SPENDING.

YET, THEY WANTED TO WALK AWAY FROM THIS WITH A LOWER RATE OF SPENDING.

WELL, THAT LEAVES DISCRETIONARY AND THEY CAME TO AN AGREEMENT, BY THE WAY, THAT EFFECTIVELY CAPS DISCRETIONARY, BUT THEY CLAWED BACK SOME OTHER REVENUE THAT THEY HAD ALLOCATED TO THE IRS AND GOING TO SPEND IT, GOING TO EASE THE BLOW BY TAKING THE MONEY AWAY FROM THE IRS.

>> Ted: ALSO CLAWED BECOME COVID RELIEF FUNDS.

>> AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE SPENT.

>> Ted: I SAW, I THINK, IN ORDER TO GET THE DEMOCRATS NOW ON BOARD, MAINTAINS THE PRESIDENT AND THE ADMINISTRATION'S CLEAN ENERGY AND CLIMATE INITIATIVES.

>> THE ORIGINAL BILL PASSED OUT OF THE HOUSE A FEW WEEKS AGO AND WANTED A LOT OF THE PROVISIONS OF THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT AND A LOT WERE ENERGY CREDITS.

THEY WANTED TO GET RID OF THOSE AND THE DEMOCRATS PRESERVED THEM.

>> Ted: A LITTLE BIT HERE AND THERE AND GIVE AND TAKE HERE AND THERE.

WE GOT THE DEAL.

BY THE TIME THIS AIRS AT 10:00 TONIGHT, WE SHOULD HAVE A DONE DEAL AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU AND TO ME?

>> WELL, WE'VE AVOIDED DISASTER.

I MEAN, IF WE'RE WATCHING THE MOVIE, "DON'T LOOK UP" THE ASTEROID WENT UP IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

YAY!

AND I DON'T MEAN TO MAKE LIGHT OF THE CONSEQUENCES AND WOULD HAVE BEEN DEVASTATING FOR THE ECONOMY.

>> Ted: HOW SO?

>> WELL, COMPLETE DISRUPTION OF THE FINANCIAL MARKETS.

YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE IN OUR FINANCIAL MARKETS IS BACKED BY THE FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT ALWAYS STANDING BEHIND THEIR DEBT AND THERE'S A LOT OF DEBT HOLDERS AND THAT'S NOT JUST FOREIGN GOVERNMENT.

THAT'S US.

THAT'S COMPANIES AND SO, THEY DEFAULT ON THAT AND THEY DEFAULT ON PAYMENTS AND MANY, MANY, MANY BUSINESSES.

MANY BUSINESSES IN ARIZONA HAVE CONTRACTS WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

NOW MANY OF THOSE ARE DEFENSE CONTRACTS AND I GUESS PRESUMABLY THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN PROTECTED SOMEHOW, BUT IN A FULL-OUT DEFAULT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU CAN SAVE AND WHAT YOU CAN'T SAVE.

I GUESS I'VE HEARD SCENARIOS WHERE, YOU KNOW THE, WHY DO WE CARE CROWD SAYS WE'LL SPEND ON IMPORTANT THINGS AND LET THE UNIMPORTANT THINGS GO.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN THE WAY CONGRESS WORKS.

IT'S EASY TO SAY THAT, MAYBE, BUT NOT EASY TO PULL IT OFF.

>> Ted: FIGURE OUT WHAT'S IMPORTANT AND WHAT'S NOT.

>> A MATTER OF POLITICAL DISCUSSION AND DEBATE, OBVIOUSLY.

BUT NO, THIS IS -- I MEAN, WALL STREET WOULD HAVE HAD TREMENDOUS STRUGGLES AND WALL STREET WAS REALLY PRETTY GOOD THROUGHOUT ALL OF THIS BECAUSE MOST INVESTORS WERE BETTING ON THE FACT THAT WE WOULD GET TO THIS POINT TODAY.

>> Ted: I WAS GOING TO ASK ABOUT ALL OF THAT, ALL OF THIS FIGHTING, DID THAT AFFECT THE U.S. ECONOMY, THE WORLD ECONOMY IN WAYS THAT IT DIDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO?

>> WELL, MAYBE AROUND THE MARGINS, BUT MOSTLY THE FINANCIAL MARKETS WERE TRANQUIL AS A RESULT OF THIS.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, FOLKS IN OTHER COUNTRIES JUST SHAKE THEIR HEAD AT CONGRESS ANYWAY AND THE U.S.

POLITICAL SYSTEM, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, OVER THE LAST SIGNIFICANCE TO EIGHT YEARS WE'VE BEEN PRETTY HUMOROUS.

HUMOROUS.

>> Ted: IN A 30,000-FOOT VIEW, WHAT DO WE LEARN FROM ALL OF THIS?

>> WE'RE STABLE AND WE CAN GO ON AS NORMAL, BUT WE HAVEN'T ADDRESSED THE BIG PROBLEM.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A AGO KIND OF THING.

LIKE, WHEN WE HAVE A MAJOR OUTLIFE, IF WEEP PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT DEBT AND A MAJOR EXPENSE LIKE A PANDEMIC OR THE WAR ON TERROR, WE HAVE TO OUTLAY TREMENDOUS -- TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

WHY NOT COME ALONG WITH A PLAN ONCE THINGS SETTLE OUT AND MAYBE WE NEED A SURCHARGE AND NEED TO PAY FOR SOME OF THAT, SO WE'LL BE ABLE WITHOUT EXPANDING THE DEBT YET AGAIN, WE'LL BE ABLE TO PAY FOR IT NEXT TIME AROUND.

>> Ted: INTERESTING IDEA.

DENNIS HOFFMAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> GREAT, TED.

>> Ted: UP NEXT, WE'LL HEAR ABOUT A DOCUMENTARY THAT FOCUSES ON THE HOMELESS POPULATION IN FLAGSTAFF.

>> Ted: THE MAN IN THE DOG PARK IS BASED ON THE DAILY LIVES OF HOMELESSNESS PEOPLE IN FLAGSTAFF.

CATHY SMALL JOINS US NOW AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

CONGRATULATIONS ON THE FILM AND THE BOOK.

"THE MAN IN THE DOG PARK."

WHO IS THE MAN IN THE DOG PARK?

>> SO IT STARTED A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, MORE UNANIMOUS TEN.

THAN TEN.

I WENT TO THE DOG PARK WITH MY DOGS IN THE MORNING AS AS I DO.

I SAW THERE WAS A MAN SITTING THERE AND HE HAD A GREEN ARMY JACKET AND SLUMPED OVER AND HE HAD A BASEBALL CAP ON.

HE DIDN'T LOOK UP AND HE LOOKED HOMELESSNESS.

I WAS AFRAID GO IN THE PARK.

AND I LET MY DOGS RUN.

I LET THEM COME BACK AND I LEFT.

I WAS THINKING I WAS LUCKY BECAUSE I WAS SCARED.

>> Ted: RIGHT, RIGHT.

>> BUT THEN I SAW HIM AGAIN AND I SAW HIM AGAIN AND I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, WHAT AM I DOING, YOU KNOW.

IT JUST DIDN'T SEEM RIGHT.

AND SO I SAT NEAR HIM AND I TALKED TO HIM AND WE BEGAN HAVING CONVERSATIONS AND I HEARD ABOUT HIS LIFE AND THAT WAS HOW IT STARTED.

ONE DAY, FIVE YEARS AFTER WE MET, I SAID HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO WRITE A BOOK TOGETHER.

I STILL REMEMBER HIS FACE OF SHOCK WHEN I SAID THAT.

>> Ted: HAPPY SHOCK?

>> IT WAS HAPPY SHOCK.

AND WE DID WRITE THE BOOK.

BUT THEN AFTER THE BOOK CAME OUT, WE REALIZED NOT EVERYBODY WILL READ A BOOK ABOUT HOMELESSNESS AND COLLABORATE WIG THECOLLABORATINGWITH THE FILMMAKER, WE MADE A 14-MINUTE SHOW THAT DRAWS ON THE SAME STORIES OF THE BOOK AND THAT IS FREE TO THE PUBLIC.

AND, YOU KNOW, I SPENT SEVEN YEARS TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN THEIR CARS, WHO LIVED ON THE STREETS, WHO LIVED IN THE FORESTS AND IN SHELTERS AND THE STORIES ARE BASED ON THAT.

>> Ted: ROSS IN THE MAN IN THE DOG PARK AND YOUR COAUTHOR.

>> RIGHT.

>> Ted: THE GOAL OF ALL OF THIS, IT WOULD SEEM, FROM A DISTANCE, BOB TO WOULD BE, TO GET TO KNOW THESE PEOPLE AS WELL, CORRECT?

>> WE PICKED THE ISSUE OF STIGMA BECAUSE IT'S REALLY OUR ATTITUDES THAT ARE AFFECTING THE DAY-TO-DAY LIFE AND SUFFERING OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING HOMELESS.

AND WE PICKED STORIES ABOUT STIGMA AND THE EFFECT OF OUR OWN ATTITUDES ON THEM.

AND SO THE STORY ALSO IS KIND OF ABOUT US AND IT'S INVITING US TO LOOK AT OUR OWN ATTITUDES.

>> Ted: YOU MET WITH PEOPLE AT SHELTERS, PAWN SHOPS, THE HUD HOUSING CENTER AND WAS THERE A RECURRING THEME WITH THESE RECURRING ACTIONS?

>> THE RECURRING THEME IS HOW HARD IT IS TO GET OUT OF HOMELESSNESS.

I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS I SAW.

I THINK WHAT THE PUBLIC CAN'T SEE, ALSO, IS THEIR RESILIENCE, THE PERSISTENCE AND INGENUITY IT TAKES TO LIVE THIS WAY.

IT ISN'T WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT.

AND I REALLY ALSO I SAW THE GREAT NUMBER OF REASONS THAT PEOPLE BECAME HOMELESS.

I KNOW PEOPLE THINK IT'S ALCOHOL AND DRUG ABUSE AND MENTAL ILLNESS.

IT'S NOT THAT THOSE THINGS DON'T EXIST.

BUT A GOOD QUESTION THAT AROSE FOR ME IN THIS IS WHICH COMES FIRST?

DOES THE HOMELESSNESS REALLY PRODUCE A LOT OF THOSE PROBLEMS?

I SAW SO MANY PEOPLE THAT WERE HOMELESS BECAUSE OF MEDICAL BILLS BECAUSE THEY WERE GAY AND THE FAMILY THREW THEM OUT OF THE HOUSE.

A WIFE THAT WAS ABUSED, THAT IS SEEKING SHELTER.

>> Ted: SO WHEN YOU CAME INTO THIS, AND OBVIOUSLY YOU CAME IN WITH SOME PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS AND DID ANYTHING SURPRISE YOU?

>> I THINK THE SURPRISES WERE -- AND THIS WILL SOUND STRANGE, MAYBE, BUT JUST THAT PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW.

AND THAT THE PEOPLE I SAW STRUGGLING WITH HOMELESSNESS ARE THE PEOPLE I SEE IN MY CLASSROOM OR OTHER THINGS I DO.

AND THAT THEY DESERVE OUR WILLINGNESS TO GET BEYOND THE LABEL OF HOMELESSNESS.

>> Ted: IS THAT THE MESSAGE YOU WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE FROM THE FILM AND BOOK?

>> IT IS.

I HOPE THEY WOULD TAKE THAT MESSAGE, THAT WE NEED TO HUMANIZE RATHER THAN POLITICIZE THIS ISSUE.

AND THAT I EVEN HOPE THEY WOULD TAKE, MAYBE, A NEXT STEP TOWARD BRINGING THIS ISSUE CLOSER THEIR RADAR.

ONE PERSON WHO READ THE BOOK WROTE ME THAT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN NEAR LIFE THEY SAID HELLO TO A HOMELESS PERSON.

AND THEY SAID WHAT A DIFFERENCE IT WAS FOR THEM.

AND THEY KNOW THEIR NAME NOW.

>> Ted: JOB WELL DONE, CATHY SMALL.

CONTINUED SUCCESS AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> Ted: AWARD WINNING PHOENIX JOURNALIST, TAMMY LEITNER HAS PUBLISHED A TRUE CRIME MEMOIR.

THE BOOK IS TITLED "DON'T SAY A THING" AND CHRONICLES SEXUAL ASSAULT CRIMES ALONG WITH AUTHORS WORK THROUGH HER COMPULSION THAT FOLLOW THE INVESTIGATION.

WE WELCOME TAMMY LEITNER TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Ted: CONGRATULATIONS ON THE BOOK AND SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT.

I MENTION ED THIS AS MENTIONED THIS AS A TRUE CRIME MEMOIR.

>> THIS HAS SOMETHING FOR EVERYBODY, BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SO MUCH ABOUT THE STORIES OF THE WOMEN WHO SURVIVED THESE ASSAULTS AND ABOUT MY OWN PERSONAL STORY AND MY JOURNEY THAT I WENT THROUGH IN A VERY TOXIC RELATIONSHIP AND THAT PARALLELS THE STORY OF THESE WOMEN WHO SURVIVE THESE ASSAULTS.

>> Ted: WHAT HAPPENED IN APRIL OF 1999?

>> I WASLYING IN SCOTTSDALE, ARIZONA, AND I WOKE UP AT 5:30 IN THE MORNING TO TAKE MY DOG OUT FOR A WALK.

I OPENED THE FRONT DOOR AND COULDN'T LEAVE.

THERE WAS CRIME SCENE TAPE ACROSS MY DOOR AND STRETCHED TO MY NEIGHBOR'S DOOR.

TURNS OUT, SHE HAD BEEN ASSAULTED, BRUTALLY, THAT NIGHT.

HE MAD HAD STAYED IN HER APARTMENT FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS.

IN A STRANGE TWIST OF EVENTS, A PIECE OF EVIDENCE FROM THAT ASSAULT ENDED UP INSIDE MY APARTMENT.

AND THAT WAS HOW I BECAME INVOLVED IN THIS CASE.

>> Ted: AND YOU BECAME VERY INVOLVED IN THIS CASE.

I'VE HEARD THE WORDS THROUGH THE BOOK, COMPULSION OBSESSION.

WAS THERE SOMETHING ELSE GOING ON HERE?

>> I ASSUMED THE RAPIST HAD BEEN IN MY APARTMENT.

IT'S UNNERVING, INVASIVE AND I LEARNED WHAT IT FELT LIKE TO BE ONE OF THE WOMEN, TO BE A VICTIM OF A CRIME.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY TAUGHT ME EMPATHY.

IT WAS SOMETHING I CARRIED WITH ME THE ENTIRE TIME I WAS A JOURNALIST AND FOR 25 YEARS, TO PUT YOURSELF IN THEIR SHOES AND IT WAS A REALLY GOOD TOOL THAT I LEARNED AND I'M GLAD THAT IT HAPPENED.

>> Ted: WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM PUTTING YOURSELF IN THEIR SHOES?

WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT JUST FOLLOWING THE INVESTIGATION AND TALKING TO SOME OF THESE WOMEN?

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE THE VICTIM OF A CRIME AS HEINOUS AS THIS, IT DOESN'T EVER GO AWAY.

THESE WOMEN THAT I MET, THEY TRULY ARE WARRIORS AND THEY WERE GRACIOUS ENOUGH AND STRONG ENOUGH AND BRAVE ENOUGH TO GO BACK TO THE WORST DAY IN THEIR LIVES AND REVISIT IT AND SHARE THEIR STORIES IN THE HOPES THAT IT WOULD START A DIALOGUE AND MAKE IT EASIER FOR OTHER WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN THE VICTIMS OF SOME TYPE OF ABUSE, WHETHER SEXUAL OR EMOTIONAL OR PHYSICAL TO NOT HIDE AND BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT I IT.

>> Ted: WE SHOULD MENTION CLOSURE AS FAR AS THE CASE WAS CONCERNED.

THIS LASTED FOREVER.

>> WHEN HE GOT TO SCOTTSDALE, HE HAD BEEN DOING THIS FOR DECADES.

IT TOOK ANOTHER NINE MONTHS AFTER HE WAS HERE BEFORE HE WAS ACTUALLY CAUGHT.

>> Ted: A LOT OF POLICE PROCEDURAL THINGS AND ALL OF THAT KIND OF THING AND THERE'S YOU AND ON PARALLEL TRACKS, AS YOU MENTIONED, A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP.

HOW DIFFICULT WAS IT FOR YOU?

BECAUSE SOME OF THIS STUFF, IT'S DIFFICULT TO READ.

IT HAS TO BE DIFFICULT FOR YOU AND HAD TO BE DIFFICULT TO GO BACK TO IT IN WRITING.

>> EXTREMELY, BUT I THINK THE ONE THING THAT PEOPLE CAN RELATE TO IN THIS BOOK IS A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW WHAT A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP IS.

WHETHER YOU'RE IN A TOXIC RELATIONSHIP IN YOUR MAYORAGE MARRIAGE, YOU'VE EXPERIENCED IT.

IT'S SHAMEFUL OR SOMETHING WE SWEEP UNDER THE RUG AND I'M HOPING THIS WILL START A DIALOGUE ABOUT I.

>> Ted: KIND OF A PARALLEL QUESTION HERE, WAS WRITING THIS IN GENERAL CATHARTIC OR UH-OH, THIS IS A TRIGGER?

>> ABSOLUTELY CATHARTIC.

>> Ted: THE MENTIONED THE TOXIC MARRIAGE AND JUDGING FROM THAT, THAT'S SERIOUS STUFF YOU'RE DEALING WITH HERE.

>> YEAH.

>> Ted: IT'S STILL DIFFICULT, ISN'T IT?

>> YOU KNOW, YEAH, I LOVED THIS PERSON DEEPLY AND THIS WAS AT THE TIME, I THOUGHT, THE LOVE OF MY LIFE AND I THINK THAT'S THE THING SO MANY PEOPLE IN THESE RELATIONSHIPS THAT ARE DESTRUCTIVE, YOU STAY BECAUSE YOU WANT IT TO WORK.

YOU BLAME YOURSELF WHEN IT DOESN'T WORK AND FOR THE ABUSE YOU SUFFER.

AND SO, I WOULD ENCOURAGE ANYBODY WHO FINDS THEMSELVES IN AN UNHEALTHY RELATIONSHIP TO TALK TO SOMEONE ABOUT IT.

FOR SO MANY YEARS I DIDN'T.

MY FRIENDS ARE READING THIS BOOK NOW FOR THE FIRST TIME AND LEARNING WHAT WAS GOING ON IN MY LIFE AT THE TIME.

>> Ted: I BET THEY'RE VERY SURPRISED.

WERE YOU SURPRISED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT, BY SERVICES OUT THERE TO HELP PEOPLE OF SEXUAL ASSAULT?

WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT ALL OF THESE THINGS?

>> WELL, BACK IN THE 1990'S, I DON'T THINK THE SERVICES FOR VICTIMS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT WERE WHAT THEY ARE NOW AND THEY HAVE COME A LONG WAY.

THANKS TO KAREN SULLIVAN, WHO IS ONE OF THE SURVIVORS AND ALLOWED ME TO USE HER NAME IN THE BOOK, SHE WENT FROM VICTIM TO SURVIVOR TO ADVOCATE.

AND SHE WAS REALLY A VOICE OF SEXUAL ASSAULT SURVIVORS DURING THE '90S AND AMAZING IN ADVOCATING FOR THEM.

>> Ted: AND YOU'VE GIVEN HER A VOICE.

WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT YOURSELF FROM ALL OF THIS?

AND I MEAN EVERYTHING, THE INVESTIGATION, THE OBSESSION AND THE MAYORAGE MARRIAGE AND THE WHOLE NINE YARDS?

WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT YOURSELF?

>> IT'S OK TO TAKE DOWN YOUR WALL AND TALK TO PEOPLE BECAUSE-YEAR-OLDCH PEOPLE ARE IN THEBECAUSEYOU'RE NOT ALONE.

>> Ted: ARE YOU GETTING REACTION IN.

>> YES.

>> IT'S NOT BEEN OUT LONG.

>> I'VE STARTED HEARING FROM PEOPLE, OH, MY GOSH, I THOUGHT I WAS THE OWN ONE ONLY ONE DEALING WITH THIS.

>> Ted: IT'S NICE TO HEAR YOU'RE IN A GOOD PLACE AND CONGRATULATIONS ON THIS BOOK AND CONTINUED SUCCESS FOR YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Ted: THANK YOU.

AND THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING!