>> WELCOME BACK.

FORMER GOP CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR KEVIN RINKE TALKS ABOUT HIS POLITICAL FUTURE.

DOES VERY ONE.

OUR LEAD TO ARE, THE LAME-DUCK SESSION.

ON THE OTR PANEL, JONATHAN OOSTING, STELLA YU AND ZACHARY GORCHOW.

SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT, OFF THE RECORD.

ANNOUNCER: PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY MARTIN WAYMIRE PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS AND PUBLIC POLICY ENGAGEMENT.

LEARN MORE AT MARTIN WAYMIRE.COM.

AND NOW, THIS EDITION OF "OFF THE RECORD" WITH TIM SKUBICK.

TIM: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WELCOME TO STUDIO C. WE ARE TAPE IN A THURSDAY MORNING.

THE LAME-DUCK SESSION LIMBS INTO HISTORY.

WELL, YEAH.

TIM: NOTHING IS THE ANSWER.

>> SURE.

IF YOU CAN PUT IT THAT WAY.

YEAH.

THINK THE REPUBLICANS ARE JUST LIKE GETTING READY TO JUST HAND IT OVER TO THE DEMOCRATS TO KICK OFF THE NEW YEAR.

TIM: WHAT DID THEY ACCOMPLISH IF ANYTHING?

>> CATS AND DOGS ISES A COMMON EXPRESSION IN THE LEGISLATURE WHICH MEANS BILLS THAT ARE RELATIVELY SMALL AND CONFINED MAYBE A MEMBER PRIME OR TY BUT NOTHING WE WOULD NECESSARILY WRITE ABOUT AS NEWS.

THAT IS REALLY WHAT THIS WAS.

THERE WERE A FEW ITEMS THAT ARE OF NOTE BUT NOTHING BIG HEADLINE WOW ISSUES THAT RECONDITION WITHLY ACOP LAME DUCK AND REALLY CAME DOWN TO KIND OF WHAT STELLA SAID WHICH IS THE DEMOCRATS HAVE FULL CONTROL STARTING IN JANUARY THEN THEY WERE NOT ALLOW OF INCENTIVES FOR THEM TO NEGOTIATE THE REPUBLICANS REALLY HAD NO LEVERAGE TO SPEAK OF THE ONLY THING WHICH WE WILL GET TO A LITTLE LATER IS THIAL PRIMARY PIECE.

WHICH THE REB CAPS DO HAVE LEVERAGE ON GOING TO NEXT YEAR.

BUT THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH, YOU KNOW, PRESSURE ON ANY BODY TO REALLY MOVE ON ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT.

THEN THAT WAS THAT.

>> YEAH THE BIGGEST THING OF NOTE THAT PASSED A LAW OVERALL WHICH WAS YEARS IN THE K MA AND NOT ALL TOPICS BUT THIS WAS TALK OF A SPENDING DEAL.

ABOUT A00 MILLION.

>> YEAH.

A BUDGET BILL WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN LIMITED IT SOUNDS LIKE TO A DEPOSIT TOT A BUSINESS INCENTIVE FUND THAT THE NOR DID WITH PRESIDENT AND WAS ASKING FOR.

REPUBLICANS WANTED A SMALL TAX DOLLARS ICATION SLASH TAX BREAK IN EXCHANGE THEN COULDN'T COME TO AN AGREEMENT THEN REPUBLICANS DID CLAIM THEY HAD AN AGREE IN THE THE GOVERNOR RENEGED THE TEAM DENIED THAT AND EVEN SENT APPROPRIATIONS CHAIR,IAM, REFUSED TO CAST BLAME ON ANYONE SIDE, BUT IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

EVEN THAT, $200 MILLION.

IT IS A LOT OF MONEY.

DON'T GET ME WRONG.

IN THIS HE SCALE OF LAST MINUTE LAME DUCK BUDGET DEALS IN YOU'RE PAST, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A SMALL DEAL.

TIM: YEAH.

$200 MILLION AND JOBS INVOLVED THE U.P.

FOLK WAS BECOME UNGLUED BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR RENEGED END ORDER TO RENEGE THERE HAD TO BE SOMETHING TO RENEGE UPON.

THEY ENDED THE YEAR SORT OF SETTING THE FRAMEWORK FOR WHAT MAY START UP IN THE NEW YEAR.

THE SAME THING, TIM.

YOU CAN SEE, YOU KNOW, MATT HALL THE INCOMING HOUSE MINORITY LEADER THEN THE INCOING SENATE MINORITY LEAKER TEAMING UP TO CRITS SO THE GOVERNOR AND YOU KNOW UNDER MEANING ECONOMIC DEVELOP THEN IT SORT OF FELT LAKE TO ME, THEY WERE YOU KNOW, WARMING UP AS YOU KNOW THIS IS OUR NEW ROLE AS WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE THE LOYAL OPP SUGGESTION TO THE GO NOR THEN, HELP, IT FELT A LITTLE BIT LIKE THE 10002 STARTED TOKING YOU HAVE ALE BIT LESS T. WELL, GO AHEAD.

WE KNOW IT WITHS A UP DELL AND HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE LUMBER INDUSTRY WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT PROJECT IS AND THERE IS NO CLEAR INDICATIONS THAT WAITING UNTIL JANUARY TO APPROVE THAT FUNDING IS GOING TO YOU KNOW SCRAP IT.

SO, I TALKED TO THE GOVERNOR PREVIOUSLY AND YESTERDAY AND THE STOPPED BY THE LEM LAY TO SEIZE FAREWELL SPEECHES THEN SAID SHE DIDN'T EXPECT THAT THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO DO MUCH BUT DIDN'T SEEM TOO CONCERNED ABOUT IT AND DO IT EX YEAR.

WELL SOMEBODY WHISPERED THE OTHER DAY FROM THE LOBBY THAT MATT HALL WAKES UP EVERY MORNING THINKING WHAT HE CAN SAY BAD ABOUT DEMOCRATS SAY THE RES RELEASE IN THIS KIND OF REACTION YOU ARE RIGHT DOES SEM SET THE TEMPLATE AND THE GOVERNOR WILL START THE NEW YEAR SAYING WE ALL WORK TOW AND THE QUESTIONS HOW LONG DOES THE CLOCK TICK BEFORE THAT FALLS APART THEN, MIKE SHIRKEY GIVE A FAREWELL SPEECH IN THE SENATE WHICH HAS THE TOWN TALKING.

YEAH.

FAREWELL SPEECHES ARE USUALLY A COUPLE OF PATS ON THE BACK.

THEN A COUPLE OF BAD CHOKE JOB THEN CALL IT A DAY BUT MIKE SHIRKEY USED HIS FLOOR YOU KNOW, THE PEDESTAL THERE TO LAUNCH, GUESS, YOU GET TO CALL IT A TRIBE AND SPOKE MORE 30 MINUTES.

RELITIGATEING THE COVID-19 RESPONSE FROM GOVERNOR WHITMER BUT GOING FURTHER TO SUGGEST IT WAS GLOBAL PLOT OR AT ALSO THE PRECURSOR TO A GLOBAL PLOT FOR AS HE PUT IT ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT IN A ONE WORLD CURRENCY.

TO A LOT OF FOLKS REINFORCE THE IDEA THAT MIKE SHIRKEY HAD BEEN OPPOSING COVID POLICIES BASED ON CONSPIRACY THEORIES THEN HE SORT OF YOU THOUGH DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO DEWADE THAT IDEA IN THE FAREWELL SPEECH.

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THAT YEAH.

IT STRUCK ME AS VERY STRANGE.

WAS NOT THERE YOU KNOW, WAS LIKE READING MY COL LEG'S STORY THEN I WAS THINKING LOOK YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE BEEN HERE.

YOU HAVE SERVED YOUR FULL-TIME THEN NOW, YOU HE, YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO REALLY LIKE, YOU KNOW, LAKE, I GUESS LIKE REITERATE THE LEGACY AS THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER BUT INSTEAD YOU USED 30ENMEN YOUR TIME TO LAUNCH INTO THIS RANT ABOUT COVID PLAN DEM K WHICH HAS BEEN, WHICH IS UNPROVEP, BASELESS, ALSO, HAS BEEN DEBUNKED BY A LOT OF SEE YOU YINISTS THEN, SO YEAH, IT STRUCK ME AS VERY WEIRD.

LOOK I GUESS I WOULDN'T HAVE THOUGHT HE WOULD HAVE USED IT TO DO THAT.

>> TO JEFF YOU A SAMPLE FROM THE TEXT MESS A.M.S THAT I RECEIVED FROM LONG TIME LAPSING PEOPLE.

PURE Q AMMAN, CRAZY, HE NEEDS TO, WELL PUT IT AUN CLEAN WAY, SHUT UP.

IT WAS -- IT WAS OFF THE CHARTS.

YOU LO?

IN A WAY, THOUGH, VERY FITTING END, MIKE SHIRKEY FROM THE MOMENT HE, I THINK, HE YEARS, HE GOT CAUGHT SAYING THE GOVERNOR AND LIENAL SLATIVE DEMOCRATS WERE CLEAN THIS UP, TOO, THAT POOP CRAZY AND WAS CAUGHT SAYING THAT HIS MOUTH HAS GOTTEN HIM IN ENDLESS SERIES OF TROUBLE AND YOU KNOW, I THINK IN HIS FAREWELL SPEECHES USUALLY MEMBERS ARE VERY TRAU TO WHO THEY ARE.

THEY LET THEIR WHATEVER GUARD THEY HAVE DOWN AND I THINK WHAT WE SAW WITH MIKE SHIRKEY.

THIS WHO IS HE IS.

HE IS SOMEONE WHO ENGAGES IN A LOT OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

HE MOCKED ANYBODY WHO WOULD DISMISS WHAT HE WAS SAYING LAST NIGHT SAYING HAS TO ARE CONSPIRACIES BUT THAT IS WHAT.

IT'S THE ARE.

IN ANSWERWAYS, I IT NO IT WASES A FITTING END TO A -- IN ANYWAY, I THOUGHT IT WAS FID ARE FITTING END TO A VERY ODD SENATE MAJORITY TERM.

WOULD WELL, HE CLEARLY MARCHED TO A DIFFERENT DROPPER.

WAS NOT A GO-LONG GUY.

IF YOU TALK TAPHOLE BEES WHO HAD TO DEAL WITH HIM, IT WAS JUST UNUSUAL, UNUSUAL ENDING TO VERY UNUSUAL TENURE.

>> TO THIS PIP,IAM TIM, DEMOCRATS DID GIVE HIM CREDIT YESTERDAY.

HE WAS INDEPENDENT THINKER, RIGHT SOMETIMES WENT DOWN RABBIT HOLE, BUT ALSO, WOULD CALL OUT THINGS HE DIDN'T BLEB IN.

HE TACKED ABOUT THE FORKER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP BRINGING HIM THE HOUSE SPEAKER TO THE WHITE HOUSE AND PRESSURE EYEING THEM TO TRY TO YOU KNOW, APPOINT THEIR OWN ELECTORS THEN OVERTURN JOE BIDEN'S WIN HERE IN MICHIGAN.

HE DIDN'T DO THAT.

SO YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS CON SR. RAS SY THISRIES GO.

HE HAS ONE MARK.

>> WITH, WILL SAY, I GUESS, IN HIS DEFENSE, IF YOU WERE TO TAKE AWAY ALL THE WILD THINGS THAT HE HAS SAID IN THE LAST THREE AND A HALF YEARS, AND YOU WERE TO SAY LET'S LOOK AT MIKE SHIRKEY'S POLICY AND YOU KNOW WHAT?

THERE IS ACTUALLY A LOT THERE AND YOU KNOW, HE IS MAYBE SINGLE-HANDEDLY RESPONSIBLE FOR MEDICATE BEING EXPANDED AND TO 133% OF THE POVERTY LEVEL IN THE HOUSE AND THAT I DON'T LEAVE THAT HAPPENS IF HE DOESN'T HEAD THE CHARGE.

A HUGE THING.

A MILLION PEOPLE WITH HEALTH IN ARANCE LANLY BECAUSE OF HIM AND YOU KNOW, THERE IS A NUMBER OF OTHER HI JOR ISSUES HE PUSHED THROUGH AS HEALTH POLICY CHAIR AND IN THE SENATE AND OF COURSE TALKED ABOUT THE RIGHT-TO-WORK LAWS AND LOVE IT OR HATE IT A HUGE CHANGE THEN HE WAS HEAVILY INVOLVED WITH IT.

BUT IN STEAD OF KIND OF TAKING TIME TO REFLECT ON THAT AND SPEND TIME THINK THANKING STAFF, HE MAYBE COULD HAVE EVEN SAID, MAYBE I SAID THIS I SHOULDN'T HAVE.

HE DENT DO ANSWER OF THAT.

I THINK ALL HE IS GOING TO REMEMBER THAT SPEECH IS WHAT IN THE WORLD.

>> YEAH.

SELL IT THAT, YOU DID A DEEP DIVE AND PES ON GUN RESTRICTIONS.

HAS THAT STOPPED WORKING ELSEWHERE.

>> YEAH.

IT IS COMPLICATED.

SEW SO WE KNOW THAT I MY DEMOCRATS ARE TALKING A LOOK AT GUN CONTROL.

WHITMER HAS SAID IT.

MULTIPLE LEADERS INCOMING LEADERS, THEY HAVE SAID THEY ARE GOING TO PUSH FOR A SAFE STORE I AM LAWS.

RED FLAG, UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS THOSE ARE THE THREE MOST MENTIONED PACKAGE, SO YEAH, I READ ABOUT 20 STUDIES OR SO, I INTERVIEWED SOME EXPERTS.

SHORT ANSWER IS MOST STUDIES THROUGHOUT, AND THERE ARE NOT VERY MANY STUDY BECAUSE OF FUNDING RESTRICTIONS, LACK OF DALT TA, HOW NEW THESE LAWS ARE IN SOME OF THE STATES, BUT YOU KNOW, MOST STUDIES SYSTEM GUEST THE SAFE STORAGE LAWS DO HAVE SIGNIFICANT IMPACT IN TERMS OF REDUCING FIREARMS IN CAN I RES AMONG CHILDREN, BY CHILDREN, AND SOME SUGGESTS THEY CAN REDUCE SUICIDE RISKS.

SOME HAVE SUGGESTED, KNOW, GUN PREVALENCE HAS LED TO INCREASE IN FIREARM RELATED DEATH RATES INCLUDING SUICIDES AND HOMICIDE, SO THERE ARE SOME, YOU KNOW, STUFF ABOUT SAFE STORAGE LAWS OUT, BUT THERE ARE LESS INCONCLUSIVE WHEN IT COMES TO RED NAG LAW AND UNIVERSAL BACK GROUND CHECKS EXPERTS HAVE ALSO SAID, WITH RED FLAGS LAWS WITH RED FLAG LAWS IT DEPENDS IN HOW YOU USE IT.

IN SOME STATES YOU KNOW, LAW ENFORCE PRESIDENT HAS JUST NOT BEEN USING THAT LAW THAT MUCH.

SO IN NEW YORK FOR EXAMPLE.

YOU HAVE SEEN THEM STEPPING UP IN RECENT YEARS AND TO USE OF RED FLAG LAWS.

THIS IS THE LOW HANGING FRUIT, OK THE BACKGROUND CHECK STUFF, RIGHT?

>> EAH.

EX A I.

THIS THE BACKGROUND, THE SAFE STORAGE LAW IN PARTICULAR I THINK SEEMS TO BE WHAT DEMOCRATS ARE WRITING.

THE COMMON SENSE STEP HERE THAT THEY THINK YOU KNOW, WON'T BE TOO CONTROVERSIAL OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF REB CAPS ARE GOING TO OPPOSE IT.

GUN RIGHT GROUPS ARE GOING OPPOSE IT BUT SEEMS TO BE BACK UP BAY DATA AND YOU KNOW, THE VERSION OF DEMOCRATS CAN PRODUCED THIS YEAR WOULD ALSO NOT JUST REQUIRE SAFE STORE I AM FOR DULTS WHO ARE KIDS IN THE HOME BUT ALSO GIVE THEM TAX INCENTIVES TO BIZ GUN SAFES AND THINGS HICK THAT AND LOCKING MECHANISMS SO, YEAH.

IT IS LOW HANGING FREET FRUIT AND NOT TALKING ON DAY ONE, BANNING ASSAULT WEAPONS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT YOU KNOW WHICH WOULD BE SORT OF THE WHITE WAIL OF FORM POLICIES.

AMOUNT NOTED THAT YOU HAVE INTERSTATE CLAUSE OF COMMERCE WHICH MAY MESS UP AND MAYBE YOU CAN MANAGE THIS SORT OF.

LE, SURE.

REMEMBER HERE.

DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO HAVE A TWO SEAT MAYOR TIN EACH CHAMBER WE RENOT TALKING.

YOU HAVE DEETS ON THEM.

YEAH.

THIS HE IS THE THING.

THIS HE IS THE BIG.

THIS IS ONE OF MANY BIG TESTS COMING FOR THIS NEW NARROW DEMOCRATIC MAY ROR CONTINUE THE LEGISLATURE LOOK.

THERE IS, YOU KNOW, MEMBERS IN DISTRICTS WHERE THERE IS A LOT OF GUN OWNERS.

YOU MO THE THEY HAVE ELECTED ONE OF THOSE AS DOWN RIVER AND YAM MY CHURCHES AND YOU OH, THIS IS A LOT OF NRA STICKERS IN PEOPLE'S WINDOWS IN GNAT ROCK AND PLACES LIKE THAT.

NOT TO MENTION EVERYTHING NORTH OF CLARE.

YES.

YEAH.

THERE ARE NOT AS MANY DEMOCRATS UP THERE T. THE POINT IS, THOUGH, THEY HAVE GOING TO HAVE TO BE.

LIKE JONATHAN SAID, THEY CANNOT GO AND EN AC THE DREAM GUN CONTROL AGAIN DID IN ALL LIKELIHOOD AND GOING TO ARE TO BE PROBABLY FAIRLY MEASURED IN WHAT THEY DO BECAUSE I THINK, WHEN YOU NEED 56 VOTES AND 20 VOTES TO PASS SOMETHING AND ALL YOU HAVE ARE 56 VOTES AND 20 VOTES WHICH DEMOCRATS LED NEXT YEAR YOU DON'T HAVE ANY REAL MARGIN FOR ERROR SO HAVE TO FIND SOMETHING THAT IS CONSENSUS WITHIN THE CAUCUS SO UNOCTOBERLY TO FINE MANY IF ANY VOTES ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

>> I THINK THERE WILL BE A PETITION DRIVE THAT WILL GET TO THE HEART OF SOME ISSUES AT HE ANTIGUN PEM AND THE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO PROTECT PEOPLE WANT TO DO.

THEN YOU NOT HEARD.

>> I THINK THAT WOULD BE TERRIBLY DISIN AING TO THAT SIDE.

THEN THEY FINALLY HAVE DEMOCRATIC CONTROL NOW THEY ARE GOING TO GO TO HAVE TO SPEND MILLIONS THEY COULD HAVE DONE THAT ALREADY.

YEAH.

>> DEMOCRATS TRY TO DO THIS IN THE LEGISLATURE.

YEAH AM THEY WILL.

I THINK THE POPULAR WISDOM THAT GIVEN DIVERSE CONTINUE THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUSES AND BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE IT WILL BE UPHILL CLIMB AND TO ADD REALLY HEAVE RY DUTY STUFF TO THEY MAY NOT HAPPEN.

LET'S SEE HOW 2023 GOES.

YEAH.

I HAVE TO THINK THEY WELL SEE WHAT THEY CAN GET.

ALL RIGHT.

CALL IN KEVIN REN COMMITTEE NOW DOWN IN MACOMB CONNIE.

MR. REN COMMITTEE BE WHERE HOW ARE YOU SIR?

A GOOD MORNING.

HOW ARE YOU?

TIM: COULDN'T BE BETTER.

NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

LET'S CUT TO THE CHASE.

DO YOU HAVE THE BUG TO BE GOVERNOR?

>> WELL, I DON'T LIKE LOSING TIM.

COMING IN SECOND WAS NO CONSTELLATION THE PRIMARY.

YOU I THE POLICIES THAT I STOOD FOR WERE POLICIES THAT SPEAK AND BENEFIT THE PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN.

OVER THE COMING YEAR, HE WILL LOOK REAL CLOSELY AT HOW I CAN CONTRIBUTOR TO THE STATE THAT I LOVE AND THE PEOPLE THAT I BELIEVE IN AND TON DO THE RIGHT THING NOT ONLY FOR REPUBLICANS BUT ALL THE PEOPLE IN MICHIGAN.

>> MR. REN COMMITTEE, A HALF SANDWICH AWAY FROM SAYING I WANT TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR AGAIN.

WE GOT TIME TO FIGURE THAT YOU OUT.

ULTIMATELY.

THE FEEDBACK THAT I GET FROM PEOPLE IN MICHIGAN IS GOING TO DETERMINE WHAT PATH FORWARD I TAKE.

I PLAN ON STAYING INVOLVED IN THE PARTY.

I PLAN ON UNITING THE PARTY WITH SOUND POLICIES AND REAFILLERRING REALLY WHAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SHOULD BE IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN.

HOW IT CAN REPRESENT ALL OF THE PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN.

I WAS ACCUSED OF BEING CLOSER TO THE CENTER BY MY, YOU KNOW, COMPETITION DURING THE PRIMARY.

AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT LEADING EVERYBODY IN A CORPORATION MEANS.

AND WHAT LEADING EVERYONE IN A STATE MEANS.

WE CANNOT GET HUNG UP ON PARTISAN ISSUE OR SINGLE BULLET POINTS AND EXPECT TO WIN.

GO AHEAD.

>> KEVIN, HOW DO YOU PLAN TO HELP UNITE THE PARTY?

OBVIOUSLY, A LOT OF WOUNDS RIGHT NOW.

SO FAR, FOR THE MICHIGAN DOP CHAIR RACE, FOR INANCE, WE HAVE MATT DEPERNO, VERY MUCH IN THE GRASS ROOTS FAR RIGHT WING OF THE PARTY.

NOW ANNOUNCING BIDS TO LEAD THE STATE PARTY.

IT IS THAT -- ARE THOSE CANDIDATES CAPABLE OF UNITING THEE PARTY?

IF NOT, HOW WOULD YOU DO SO?

ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT RUNNING FOR CHAIR?

>> NO, AM NOT INTERESTED IN RUN FOR CHAIR.

I THINK THAT WHAT WE HAVE TO DO AS A PARTY IS SAY WHAT IS THE JOB?

THE JOB OF CHAIRMAN FOR EITHER PARTY IS TO HELP CRAFT AN AGENDA, HELP SELECT CANDIDATES THAT ARE ELECTABLE IN A GENERAL ELECTION, AND TON RAISE MONEY.

I THINK THAT SIMILAR TO HAVING CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR STATEWIDE OFFICE, WE HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO CAN DO THE JOB AS IT EXISTS, AND IF WE DON'T, WE WILL STRUGGLE.

WE WELL CONTINUE TO ARGUE AMONGST OURSELVES.

AND WILL LOSE THAT BATTLE.

SIT DOWNYON THAN AND IN MY CORPORATE CAREER, WE HAD PEOPLE THAT DISAGREE ALL THE TIME.

WE WERE ABLE TO SIT DOESN'T AND WORK TOGETHER AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT GRASSROOTS REPUBLICANS, WITHIN THING WE HAVE IN COMMON IS THAT WE ARE STILL REPUBLICANS.

I THINK WE NEED TO REVISIT THE THINGS THAT WE AGREE ON.

RAILROADS THE THINGS WE WANT TO DISAGREE ON AND TALK ABOUT HOW THAT PLAYS OUT IN A STATEWIDE ELECTION BECAUSE MICHIGAN IS NO LONGER A PURPLE STATE.

LET'S BE PERFECTLY CLEAR.

IT IS BLUE.

THIS LAST ELECTION PROVED THAT WHAT REPUBLICANS OR THE GRASS ROOT LIKE IT OR NOT, WE DIDN'T HAVE A MESSAGE THAT THE PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN 50 PERCENT MUS ONE WERE WILLING TO ACCEPT.

>> WE HAVE TO DISSECT WHY THAT WAS THE RESULT.

WOULD WELL, SEE YOU SECT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PRIMARY A LITTLE BIT.

YOU STARTED OUT, I REMEMBER YOU BEING ON THIS SHOW MAYBE EARLY 22 OR HATE 21.

WE REALLY KIND OF TACKED MORE OF A CENTER PATH TOOK SOME POSITIONS THAT WERE TO THE LEFT OF THE REST OF THE PRIMARY FIELD BACK WHEN WAS STILL TEN PEOPLE THEN THE PRIMARY WE'RE ON.

SEEMED TO MOVE RIGHT.

YOU STARTED TYING YOURSELF MORE TOWARD DONALD TRUMP AND TRYING TO CLAIM THAT TUDOR DIXON WAS NOT ALIGNED WITH HIM AFTER SHE GOT THE ENDORSE IN THE STARTED TO YOUING MORE MESS A.M.S OVER ON ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THINGS.

DO YOU REGRET LEAVING BEHIND THAT CENTER PATH PATH THAT YOU WERE CUTTING AT THE BEGINNING?

>> PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT ANY PRIMARY, YOU ARE DEALING WITH DIFFERENT SEGMENT OF VOTERS.

I LIKED MANY OF DONALD TRUMP'S POLICIES.

AND I HOLD TOLL THAT TODAY.

AND I HOLD TO THAT TODAY.

DON'T BELIEVE TUDOR DIXON WAS IN LINE WITH THE PRESIDENT.

THINK I THAT TUDOR WAS STRUGGLING TO BE RECOGNIZED AND WAS WILLING TO SAY THINGS TO GARNER VOTES.

I WAS NOT WILLING TO DO THAT.

I DON'T DISCREDIT TUDOR FOR IT.

I DON'T REGRET TRYING TO TALK TO PEOPLE AND DELIVER A MESSAGE ON POLICY.

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN EFFECTIVE FOR MICHIGAN.

SO THIS WAS MY FIRST GO AT IT.

I LEARNED A LOT.

I BELIEVE IN THE VALUES THAT I STOOD FOR.

I BELIEVE MY MESS ANY BEING MORE IN THE CENTER FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION WAS THE RIGHT MESSAGE.

ACTUALLY A BETTER MESSAGE THAT WHAT GRETCHEN WHITMER BRING OS THE TABLE.

>> KEVIN, YOU SPENT ALO LOT OF TIME ATTACKING TUDOR DIXON ACONINES TO THE BETSY DEVOS.

THE DAVOS FAMILY OF COURSE HAS BEEN LONG TIME SUPPORTERS OF THE I MY REPUBLICAN PARTY AND MORE OF THAT TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN WIN THAT YOU SAWED PROS SORT OF CAT KERRING TO.

DO YOU GET A LOT OF BLOW BACK FROM LONG TIME REPUBLICANS DO YOU HAVE ANY REGRETS ABOUT THAT APPROACH?

>> I RESPECT DICK AND BETSY.

WAS DISAPPOINTED AND DIDN'T LIKE THE FACT THAT REALLY WITHOUT DICK AND BETSY, TUDORS WITH OUT OF THE ELECTION.

TUDOR WAS OUT OF THE ELECTION.

THEY HAVE A RIGHT.

TIM: YOU CALLED THEM RHINOS DO YOU TAKE BACK THAT STATEMENT?

YOU CALLED THEM RHINOS.

REPUBLICANS IN NAME ONLY.

YOUR AFTERS CALLED THEM RHINOS.

>> THERE IS A LOT OF RHETORIC THAT GUESS ON IN A PRIMARY.

THERE IS A LOT OF RHETORIC THAT GOES ON IN A PRIMARY.

I HAVE BEEN CALLED A RHINO MYSELF.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS DEROGATORY.

I THOUGHT IT WAS CONTRADICTION THAT BETSY DEVOS SPOKE OUT AGAINST PRESIDENT TRUMP AND AT THE SAM TIME TUDOR WAS COURTING PRESIDENT TRUMP REPORT YOU SEE THAT.

YOU KNOW THAT.

SO THE FACT THAT I HIGHLIGHTED THAT -- COULD I HAVE DELIVERED THE MISAME DIFFERENTLY?

I SUSPECT I COULD HAVE.

DO I REGRET IT IN THE NO.

I DON'T REGRET ANTICIPATE THING THAT I DID IN THE ELECTION THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU WOULDN'T DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY AND THAT YOU DON'T LEARN FROM THEM.

AND THE DAVOS TAMLY IS SIGNIFICANT AND REPUBLICAN POLITICS THEY ARE FOG REMAIN SIGNIFICANT IN REPUBLICAN POLITICS THEN EVEN THOUGH WE HAD THAT ISSUE, I WOULD WORK WITH DICK AND BETSY IN A HEART BEAT FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN AND FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> KEVIN SO AREA YOU MENTIONED THAT MICHIGAN IS NO LONGER A PURPLE STATE AND NOW A BLUE STATE AS EVIDENCE FROM THE ELECTION RESULTS AND BUT AT THE SAM TIME WE ARE SEEING YOU KNOW, OVER THE YEAR, WE SEE THIS IN FIGHT, RATING?

THAT EXISTS WITHIN THE MICHIGAN GOP AND YOU KNOW, NOW YOU HAVE SOME OF THE MORE LEANING MORE RIGHT CANDIDATES ARE NOW RUNNING FOR GOP CHAIR TRYING TO LEAD AND THE PARTY.

DO YOU THINK MICHIGAN DOP STILL DOES REPRESENT MOST OF THE REPUBLICAN VOTERS?

IF NOT, WHERE DO YOU SEE IT HEADED?

>> AGAIN, THINK THERE IS A SEPARATION BETWEEN THE GRASS ROOTS, WHICH IS TRADITIONALLY MORE VOCAL, ON SPECIFIC ISSUES, AND CRAVING A PLATFORM THAT CAN WIN A GENERAL LEX.

YOU -- GENERAL ELECTION.

YOU MAY REMEMBER BACK TO ONE OF INTERVIEWS, TIM, I TALKED ABOUT INDEPENDENCE OPINIONS AND I THOUGHT THE ELECTION WOULD COME DOWN TO A 5 OR 7% SCENARIO BASED ON HOW INDEPENDENTS VOTED.

AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY NEEDS TO RECOGNIZE, AND THAN YOU INCLUDES THE GRASS ROOTS, THAT FOR US TO BE SIGNIFICANT, FOR US TO WIN, WE HAVE TO HAVE A PLATFORM THAT WELCOMES INDEPENDENTS, EVEN THOUGH WE MAY HAVE ISSUES WITHIN OUR CONVERSATIONS THAT WE DISAGREE WITH THEM ON.

BUT ARE WE WILLING TO FALL ON A WORD AND WILLING TO TON LOSE GENERAL ELECTIONS AND PUSH INDEPENDENTS AWAY?

I DON'T THINK THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS WILLING TO DO THAT.

THINK WE NEED TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

THAT IS A GOOD LOOK.

THAT IS PRAGUE PRESS.

AND YOU LOOK AT SEGMENTS WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE THE FASTEST GROWING GROUP COMING INTO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

WE HAVE A VERY, VERY VERY STRONG ETHIC MAKEUP IN MICHIGAN.

THOSE PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN ENTREPRENEURIAL BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES.

THEY INTERESTED IN FAIR WINGS.

THEY ARE INTERESTED IN SMALL BUSINESS AND EDUCATION.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE KEY REPUBLICAN PRINCIPALS.

>> WE ARE GOING TO DO OVERTIME PASS WE RESCRATCHING THE SURFACE HERE.

LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

APPEARS THAT DEPERNO AND SOLDANO TICKET WELL BE THE NEW REPUBLICAN CO CHAIRS FOR THE PARTY.

THAT IS GOING MOVE THE PARTY UP THE RIGHT DIRECTION, SIR?

>> WELL, I CAN'T SAY THAT THAT IS GOING TO BE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TICKET.

LEAVE EPSTEIN HAS ANNOUNCED SHE IS RUNNING.

CERTAINLY DID A GOOD JOB IN HER RUN FOR MICHIGAN REGION WHILE MANY REPUBLICANS STRUGGLED, IF I AM NOT MISTAKEP, SHE WAS ONE PERCENT OR LESS.

IN LOSING THAT ELECTION.

THERE IS MOMENTUM.

THAT HE CORES ANDP WE WOULD HAVE HAD A STRONGER TICKET, AT THE TOP END OF THE TICKET, I BELIEVE THAT SOME WOULD HAVE WON AND WOULD HAVE HELPED CARRY THEM THROUGH, SO I THINK, THERE IS GOING TO BE A GOOD CONVERSATION AT THE STATE CONVENTION.

I THINK THAT THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSIDERING ANNOUNCING.

TIM: WELL, IF ITS DEPERNO-SOLDANO TICKET, WHICH WILL IT MOVE THE PEAR IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

GO.

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT THE QUALIFICATIONS FOR MICHIGAN DOP CHAIRMAN GOP CHAIRMAN AND THE CANDIDATE'S QUALIFICATIONS DON'T NECESSARILY ALIGN.

SO I AM CURIOUS TO SEE HOW THEY WILL BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT IS NEEDED AND THAT IS BRINGING THE PARTY TET TOGETHER AND RAISING MONEY TO DOM PETE AT EVERY LEVEL IN THE UPCOMING ELECTION.

>> SUZANNE: AM CURIOUS WHAT YOU FIND OUT IN OVERTIME IF YOU HANG ON, GO TO WKAR PATH ARE AND WELL BE A'S BE BACK WITH MORE RIGHT AFTER THESE CLOSED CREDITS.

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