>> HI I'M MARC ROTTERMAN.

COMING UP, IN THE SPOTLIGHT, NORTH CAROLINA'S US SENATE RACE.

MEDICAID EXPANSION GAINS MOMENTUM.

AND SENATOR BOB DOLE PASSES.

NEXT.

[ANNOUNCER SPEAKING] A COMPLETE LIST OF FUNDERS CAN BE FOUND AT: ♪ >> WELCOME BACK JOINING THE CONVERSATION, MITCH KOKAI WITH THE JOHN LOCKE FOUNDATION, DEMOCRATIC STATE SENATOR JAY CHAUDHURI POLITICAL ANALYST JOE STEWART.

AND NELSON DOLLAR SENIOR ADVISOR TO NORTH CAROLINA SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.

MITCH LET'S BEGIN WITH NORTH CAROLINA'S SENATE RACE.

>> US SENATE RACES ARE ALWAYS BIG THERE ESPECIALLY BIG NOW WHEN YOU HAVE A 50-50 SPLIT BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS IN THE U.S. SENATE AND NORTH CAROLINA'S RACE WAS GOING TO DRAW ATTENTION ANYWAY, BECAUSE IT'S OPEN.

WE KNEW FAIRLY EARLY ON IN REPUBLICAN RICHARD BURR'S LAST TERM HE WASN'T GOING TO RUN FOR REELECTION, SO A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE HAD A LOT OF TIME TO THINK ABOUT WHO'S GOING TO RUN FOR THIS.

MUCH OF THE BUZZ RIGHT NOW HAS BEEN ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE WHERE THE MAJOR CANDIDATES HAVE BEEN FORMER GOVERNOR PAT MCCRORY CONGRESSMAN TED BUDD AND FORMER CONGRESSMAN MARK WALKER.

TRUMP, THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF COURSE HAS COME OUT IN FAVOR OF TED BUDD SO HAS THE CLUB FOR GROWTH AND THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN AN EFFORT TO TRY TO GET MARK WALKER OUT OF THE RACE TO RUN INSTEAD FOR WHAT WOULD BE AN OPEN CONGRESSIONAL SEAT.

>> BIG MEETING DOWN AT MAR-A-LAGO >> BIG MEETING DOWN THERE, ALTHOUGH THE MOST RECENT NEWS IS THAT WALKER SAID HE WANTS TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME BEFORE THINKING ABOUT THIS.

I THINK HE SAW THAT THE DISTRICTS NOW MIGHT BE IN PLAY.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS THERE.

ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, THE BIG BUZZ HAS BEEN AROUND FORMER STATE SUPREME COURT CHIEF JUSTICE SHERRY BEASLEY WHO HAS WON STATEWIDE ELECTIONS BEFORE AND CAME WITHIN ABOUT 400 VOTES OF WINNING LAST YEAR FOR THE CHIEF JUSTICE'S RACE.

STATE SENATOR JEFF JACKSON IS ALSO IN THIS RACE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE BUT HE'S GOTTEN MUCH LESS ATTENTION MUCH LESS ATTRACTION.

THIS OF COURSE IS GOING TO BE A VERY IMPORTANT RACE AND WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

WE DO KNOW THAT ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, THE CLUB FOR GROWTH IS ALREADY OUT THERE BASHING -- >> [MARC] THEY'RE IN BIG TIME RIGHT NOW.

>> THEY'RE IN BIG-TIME REALLY BASHING FORMER GOVERNOR MCCRORY.

>> OKAY, WHAT IS YOUR SENSE NELSON HOW'S THE PRIMARY BEING DELAYED GOING TO IMPACT THIS RACE?

>> WELL, THE PRIMARY IS GOING NOW BE DELAYED BY THE NORTH CAROLINA SUPREME COURT TO MAY 17TH, AND WHAT THAT DOES IS IT ALLOWS BUDD MORE TIME TO CONSOLIDATE HIS BASE MORE TIME TO RAISE MONEY AND AND MOST IMPORTANTLY MORE TIME 2 MORE ADVERTISING DOLLARS RAISE HIS ADVERTISING DOLLARS AND TO BUILD THAT GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATION WHICH HE REALLY HASN'T DONE TO THIS POINT AND I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THIS NATIONALLY THE DEMOCRATS ARE SUFFERING IN THE POLLS, INFLATION, AND THEIR MESSAGING OTHER BIG ISSUES FOR REPUBLICANS, THE BIG WORRY REALLY IS THE QUALITY OF THEIR CANDIDATES AROUND THE COUNTRY.

WHAT THE REPUBLICANS CANNOT AFFORD TO DO IS WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM IN 2010 WHEN THEY LOST 3 SEATS IN DELAWARE, COLORADO AND NEVADA BECAUSE THEY HAD RATHER EXOTIC CANDIDATES AT THE TIME.

>> JOE HOW BIG A PLAYER IS A TRUMP IN THE PRIMARY HERE?

>> WELL I THINK IT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE EVEN ALL OTHER FACTORS ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, A KIND OF THE UNIQUE NATURE OF WHAT HE OCCUPIES CURRENTLY IN THE AMERICAN POLITICAL LANDSCAPE HAVING A FORMER PRESIDENT ENDORSE YOU IN A PRIMARY IS A POWERFUL THING GIVES YOU A WAY TO ESTABLISH A STRONG CREDIBILITY EN BONAFIDE AS A CANDIDATE HELPS YOU BUILD NAME RECOGNITION HELPS YOU WITH BASE PARTY VOTERS AND I THINK THAT'S THE CASE HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA, AND THE BENEFIT IS IN THAT REGARD TO TED BUDD.

THE QUESTION IS A PROTRACTED PRIMARY GOING TO BENEFIT THESE CANDIDATES BECAUSE IT MEANS YOU HAVE TO RUN A CAMPAIGN LONGER MAYBE THAN YOU PLANNED ON.

>> [MARC] RAISE MORE MONEY.

CHANGES YOUR ADVERTISING STRATEGY >> WELL THE ENEMY OF POLITICS AND POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS, IS TIME BECAUSE THE CANDIDATES SOMETIMES MAKE MISTAKES THAT THEY WOULD NOT HAVE MADE IF THE ELECTION HAD BEEN SOONER RATHER THAN LATER, WE'LL HAVE TO SEE IF THAT'S A DYNAMIC.

>> JAY TALK TO US ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.

>> SO IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY AS MITCH MENTIONED YOU'VE GOT THE FORMER CHIEF JUSTICE SHERRY BEASLEY THAT I THINK IS REALLY DEEMED TO BE THE FRONT RUNNER NOW.

THERE WAS ENDORSEMENTS BY CONGRESSMAN DAVID PRICE AS WELL AS CONGRESSMAN GK BUTTERFIELD.

I THINK SENATOR JEFF JACKSON'S RUNNING A DIFFERENT UNIQUE KIND OF CAMPAIGN HE'S GOT A 100 COUNTY VISIT.

HE'S DOING A LOT OF GRASSROOTS OUTREACH, AND I THINK THE QUESTION ABOUT A PROTRACTED PRIMARY IS AN INTERESTING ONE BECAUSE IT MAY BE ONE VERSUS MONEY VERSUS BUILDING GRASSROOTS SUPPORT.

LOOK, I'LL SAY ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE WHAT HAPPENED IN MAR-A-LAGO TO ME ILLUSTRATES THAT DONALD TRUMP IS STILL THE KING MAKER IT'S REMARKABLE THAT HE CAN RESHAPE THE U.S. SENATE RACE IN AT LEAST 5 CONGRESSIONAL RACES HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA.

I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY WE HAVE A REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE ANYMORE.

THEY SHOULD JUST RELOCATE TO MAR-A-LAGO.

>> WELL LET ME TELL YOU AN INTERESTING THING THAT THE HEAD TO HEAD TODAY BY RASMUSSEN AND OTHER POLLS AND GALLUP SHOWS THAT TRUMP WOULD BEAT BIDEN.

BUT I WANT TO MOVE ON AND COME RIGHT BACK TO YOU TO MEDICAID EXPANSION.

LOOKS LIKE IS GAINING TRACTION.

>> WELL AS BACKGROUND MARC, THE BIPARTISAN 53 BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET THAT WAS PASSED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND SIGNED INTO LAW BY GOVERNOR COOPER DID NOT INCLUDE MEDICAID EXPANSION THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT GOVERNOR COOPER HAD ADVOCATED, BOTH IN 2019 2021, BUT THE BUDGET BILL DOES CREATE AN 18 MEMBER COMMISSION 9 MEMBERS OF POINT BY SENATOR BERGER 9 MEMBERS APPOINTED BY SPEAKER MOORE.

I THINK WHAT'S INTERESTING HERE IS THAT SENATOR BERGER EXPRESSED INITIAL OPPOSITION TO MEDICAID EXPANSION BECAUSE OF THE FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO BE MADE BY THE STATE AND LACK OF CERTAINTY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

BUT HE'S NOW TAKING A DIFFERENT POSITION BELIEVING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL MEET ITS OBLIGATION, AND ON THE FLIP SIDE, YOU HAVE SPEAKER MOORE WHO SAID HE DIDN'T HAVE THE VOTES IN THE CAUCUS TO EXPAND MEDICAID.

BUT I THINK WHAT'S INTERESTING AGAINST ALL OF THIS IS YOU'VE GOT TO BUILD BACK BETTER BILL THAT ACTUALLY HAS ADDITIONAL CARROTS TO TRY TO GET THE 12 STATES THAT HAVE NOT EXPANDED MEDICAID, INCLUDING NORTH CAROLINA TO DO THAT.

>> WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE BACK BETTER BILL?

WHERE DO YOU THINK THAT IS RIGHT NOW?

>> SO LOOK I THINK THAT THE BUILD BACK BETTER BILL HAS REAL CHALLENGES IN THE SENATE, I THINK THAT JOE MANCHIN IS WIELDING A LOT OF HIS INFLUENCE AND MAKING SURE THAT IT GETS SCALED BACK.

I MEAN HE'S MAKING AN ARGUMENT THAT WE FRANKLY HEAR FROM REPUBLICANS THAT DO WE NEED TO INJECT ADDITIONAL MONEY THAT MIGHT CAUSE INFLATION?

BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD PARTS OF IT IN THE BUILD BACK BETTER BILL INCLUDING THIS IDEA OF CREATING MORE CARROTS FOR THE NON EXPANSION STATES TO EXPAND MEDICAID, AND I THINK THAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY'S LEADERSHIP RECOGNIZES THIS GOING INTO NEXT SESSION AND I HOPE THAT THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR REAL DISCUSSIONS OR RECOMMENDATIONS COME OUT FROM THIS LEGISLATIVE -- >> MITCH, MEDICAID EXPANSION, 90 -- MOST OF THAT IS PICKED UP BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RIGHT?

ABSORBED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

>> MOST OF IT IS PAID FOR BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THE CONCERN HAS BEEN THAT THAT ARRANGEMENT WOULDN'T LAST AS LONG AS HAD BEEN PROMISED, BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ALREADY PAYS MOST OF THE BILL FOR MEDICAID, BUT FOR THE TRADITIONAL PROGRAM, THE PROGRAM SERVING THOSE FOR WHOM MEDICAID WAS DESIGNED, THE PERCENTAGE OF THE FEDERAL MATCH IS MUCH LESS.

I THINK MOST PEOPLE WHO LOOKED AT THIS PROGRAM OVER THE YEARS HAVE SAID, LOOK THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT GOING TO CONTINUE PAYING 90% PLUS OF THE BILL FOR COVERAGE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LESS DESERVING OF THE COVERAGE THAN THOSE FOR WHOM MEDICAID WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED.

I THINK SENATOR BERGER IS MUCH LESS CONCERNED ABOUT THAT NOW THAN HE WAS.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THE HOUSE REMAINS AGAINST IT.

>> YEAH, WHERE'S IS THE SPEAKER ON THIS?

>> WHERE THE SPEAKER IS... >> NOT TO PUT HIM ON THE SPOT, RIGHT?

>> BUT WHERE THE SPEAKER IS HIS WHERE HIS CAUCUS IS AND HE HAS REPRESENTED THE CAUCUS, EXTREMELY WELL.

AND WHAT THE ADVOCATES NEED TO DO IS TO MAKE THE BUSINESS CASE AND THEY HAVEN'T DONE THAT WITH THAT HOUSE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS.

SO 3 KEY AREAS.

ONE, THEY NEED TO MAKE THE CASE THAT IT WILL LOWER HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS FOR EVERYBODY, THAT IT WILL BENEFIT RURAL HOSPITALS BY PAYING FOR MORE UNCOMPENSATED CARE AND THAT IT WILL HELP SMALL BUSINESSES BE ABLE TO AFFORD HEALTH CARE FOR THEIR WORKERS IN A VERY TIGHT LABOR MARKET.

THAT'S REALLY WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

THE ADVOCATES NEED TO MAKE THE BUSINESS CASE FOR EXPANSION AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS ALREADY PUT 1.3 BILLION DOLLARS PLUS OR MINUS ON THE TABLE AS A SWEETENER FOR NORTH CAROLINA.

>> [JAY] NELSON SOUNDS LIKE A DEMOCRAT IN MY OPINION.

>> JOE, WRAP THIS UP IN ABOUT 40 SECONDS.

>> THE INTERESTING THING TO ME IS THE PROVISION IN THE BUDGET RELATIVE TO THIS 18 MEMBER COMMITTEE.

SAYS THAT IT WILL STUDY VARIOUS WAYS TO EXPAND POSSIBLE COVERAGE OPTIONS FOR THE STATE.

THE OTHER THING IS NOTHING COMPELS IT TO ACTUALLY BE FORMED AND POLITICS, IF NOTHING ELSE, IS AN ORGANIC SCIENCE AND THINGS MAY CHANGE IN THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR.

FAVOR WHETHER OR NOT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TAKES PUTTING TOGETHER THIS GROUP AND COMING UP WITH A PLAN SERIOUSLY.

>> OKAY, I WANT TO MOVE ON AND TALK ABOUT A GIANT WHO PASSED THIS WEEK, SENATOR BOB DOLE, YOUR THOUGHTS NELSON.

>> BOB DOLE WAS THE EMBODIMENT OF THE GREAT AMERICAN CENTURY.

HE REALLY OVERCAME THE DEPRESSION IN THE RURAL HEARTLAND, HE LED SOLDIERS INTO BATTLE TO DEFEAT THE NAZIS.

HE REINVENTED HIMSELF WHEN HE WAS PARALYZED IN THAT WAR AND IT REALLY ENDED A VERY PROMISING ATHLETIC AND MEDICAL CAREER FOR HIM.

SO HE FORGED A NEW PATH.

HE REINVENTED HIMSELF INTO PUBLIC SERVICE, TWICE LEADING THE MAJORITY IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE AND WAS ALSO HIS PARTY'S NOMINEE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR VICE PRESIDENT, AND LATER FOR PRESIDENT.

AND OF COURSE WINNING THE COLD WAR ALONG THE WAY AND REACHING ACROSS THE POLITICAL DIVIDE, NOT THE -- >> [MARC] HE WAS A CONSENSUS BUILDER.

>> HE WAS.

HE DID NOT COMPROMISE HIS PRINCIPLES.. JAY.

[LAUGHTER] HE FOUND BIPARTISAN SOLUTIONS SO HE WORKED WITH DEMOCRATS TO STRENGTHEN THE SOCIAL SECURITY PROGRAM TO SAVE IT FOR A GENERATION, SCHOOL LUNCH PROGRAMS, RIGHTS FOR THE DISABLED.

HE WAS NOT PERFECT.

BUT HE WAS A HERO WITH SORT OF A WILL ROGERS A SENSE OF WIT AND HE HAD THAT UNIQUE AMERICAN ABILITY TO OVERCOME AND TO REINVENT HIMSELF AND THAT'S REALLY THE GENIUS OF AMERICA, >> JOE DO YOU THINK A BOB DOLE COULD GET ELECTED IN TODAY'S REPUBLICAN PRIMARY?

>> I THINK THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION AND PART OF THE CHALLENGE IS SOMEBODY LIKE BOB DOLE WAS A CONSENSUS BUILDER WORKED ACROSS THE AISLE, TREMENDOUS RESPECT FOR THE INSTITUTION OF THE SENATE AND HIS COLLEAGUES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

THAT KIND OF POLITICS IS A PART OF A BYGONE ERA, PERHAPS.

I'M NOT ENTIRELY SURE PEOPLE LIKE JIM HUNT FOR JIM MARTIN COULD GET THE NOMINATION OF THEIR PARTIES TODAY.

BOTH WERE INCREDIBLY LOYAL TO NORTH CAROLINA AND THE ADVANCEMENT OF IT'S PEOPLE, BUT THE DEFINITION OF PARTISAN IN THE WAY THAT POLITICIANS PRACTICE, THE ART OF POLITICS HAS CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY.

SO I'M NOT SURE BOB DOLE COULD SURVIVE IN TODAY'S POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT AND GET HIS PARTY'S NOMINATION.

>> JAY YOUR THOUGHTS ON BOB DOLE.

>> WELL I THINK TO YOUR QUESTION MARC, WE REALLY SHOULD CELEBRATE BOB DOLE'S LIFE AND WORK BECAUSE OF WHAT HE REPRESENTS IN A WORLD OF HYPER PARTISAN POLITICS, AND I THINK IS NELSON TALKED ABOUT IT AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS MAYBE THE PUBLIC DIDN'T REALLY PAY ATTENTION IS REALLY TO THE WAR INJURIES AND RECOVERY THAT TOOK HIM.

WAS IN A BODY CAST FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS AND THEN THE PAIN AND SUFFERING EXPERIENCED, BUT ALSO HIS ABILITY TO WORK ACROSS THE AISLE AS YOU MENTIONED.

THE SCHOOL LUNCH PROGRAMS, SAVING SOCIAL SECURITY, AMERICAN FOR DISABILITIES ACT, I THINK IT WAS FITTING THAT I THINK HE WAS ONLY THE 30TH AMERICAN NOW WHOSE BODY RESTS UNDER THE CAPITOL ROTUNDA AS YOU SAID, IN THE EARLIER REMARKS OF THIS PANEL, JOE BIDEN CALLED HIM A REAL GIANT OF HISTORY AND I THINK THAT'S THE WAY WILL BE REMEMBERED.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW HE LOVED VETS AND HE LOVED THE WORLD WAR 2 VET SAID HE WOULD GO DOWN TO THE WORLD WAR 2 MEMORIAL.

WHEN THEY WOULD COME IN ON THESE HONOR FLIGHTS, AND HE'D BE THERE WITHOUT ANY FANFARE AT ALL.

MITCH?

>> YEAH, I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED THAT BECAUSE THAT'S THE POINT THAT I WANTED TO MAKE I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE SEE THAT'S VERY DIFFERENT ABOUT OUR POLITICS TODAY IS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THAT GROUP OF WORLD WAR 2 VETERANS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE WHO BASICALLY HAD THAT SHARED A COMMON EXPERIENCE THEY MIGHT DISAGREE ON HOW MUCH GOVERNMENT SHOULD SPEND ON THIS OR THAT OR WHETHER THIS PROGRAM MADE SENSE.

BUT THEY ALL HAD THAT BOND OF HAVING FOUGHT FOR THEIR COUNTRY IN A VERY DEVASTATING WAR.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT HE SAID HE SAID THAT THEY FOUGHT AS HARD AS THEY COULD AND AGAINST EACH OTHER FROM 9 TO 5 OR WHENEVER THE SESSION WAS IN THE SENATE BUT THEN AFTER THAT THEY WERE FRIENDS AFTER 5.

I THINK THAT'S MISSING IN TODAY'S POLITICS.

>> IT IS MISSING AND I THINK THAT MEMORIAL TO WORLD WAR 2 IF YOU EVER GO TO DC NEED TO VISIT THAT BOB DOLE REALLY SPEARHEADED THAT EFFORT, RAISING MONEY FROM ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND IT HONORS VETERANS FROM THE GREATEST GENERATION AT THAT MEMORIAL IS A WONDERFUL TRIBUTE TO THE SACRIFICE THAT WAS MADE >> JOE, WRAP THIS UP IN ABOUT A MINUTE.

>> ONE THING THAT BOB DOLE WAS A CHAMPION OF THAT HE'S NOT REALLY WIDELY REMEMBER FOR WAS THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITY ACT.

IN THE DISABLED COMMUNITY HE'S CONSIDERED A CHAMPION FOR BRINGING ABOUT SOME REFORMS TO THINGS THAT MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR DISABLED PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN OUR SOCIETY AND BE ABLE TO SUPPORT AND SUSTAIN THEMSELVES IN A WAY BOB DOLE DID THAT VERY QUIETLY DO BRING A LOT OF ATTENTION TO HIMSELF, BUT WAS ONE OF THE PRIMARY REASONS WHY THAT FEDERAL LEGISLATION WAS ENACTED.

>> OKAY, I WANT TO MOVE ON COME RIGHT BACK TO TALK ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME CHANGES ROBIN HUDSON'S NOT GOING TO RUN AGAIN.

JUSTICE ROBIN HUDSON HAD MADE THE DECISION NOT TO SEEK REELECTION IN NORTH CAROLINA.

WE HAVE A MANDATORY RETIREMENT AGE FOR JUDGES OF 72.

SHE WILL TURN 72 SHOULD SHE WIN REELECTION IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TERM AND SO DECIDED TO AVOID THAT DISRUPTION TO THE COURT AND JUST CHOOSE NOT TO RUN AGAIN.

NOW THE INTERESTING THING IS THERE ARE TWO JUSTICES UP FOR 2 SPOTS OPEN.

SAM ERVIN THE 4TH THE GRANDSON OF THE LATE SENATOR SAM ERVIN OF WATERGATE FAME WILL ALSO BE ON THE BALLOT.

HE'S DECIDED TO RUN FOR REELECTION, BUT HUDSON'S SEAT NOW WILL BE AN OPEN SEAT RACE.

TWO CANDIDATES BOTH COMING FROM THE COURT OF APPEALS LUCY INMAN IS A JUDGE ON THE COURT OF APPEALS RAN FOR A SUPREME COURT SEAT 2 YEARS AGO AND LOST.

AND RICHARD DIETZ IS ALSO APPELLATE COURT JUDGE NOW IN WHAT WILL PROBABLY BE THE RACE THAT DECIDES THE BALANCE OF POWER IN THE SUPREME COURT.

NOW THESE ARE PARTISAN ELECTIONS, WE KNOW THE PARTY AFFILIATION OF THE JUSTICES WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE THAT THEIR DISPOSITION ON MATTERS OF JURISPRUDENCE ARE NOT INFLUENCED BY THEIR PARTISAN AFFILIATION.

BUT IT'S GOT TO BE AT LEAST A PART OF IT, AS DADDY USED TO SAY, AND SO IN SOME WAYS THIS WILL BE A SEMINAL RACE IN 2022, EVEN THOUGH JUDICIAL RACES TEND NOT TO GET HIGH PROFILE AND MOST OF THE ATTENTION COMES AS A RESULT OF INDEPENDENT EXPENDITURE, OUTSIDE GROUPS THAT ADVERTISE JUDGES GENERALLY NOT ABLE TO RAISE A LOT OF MONEY FOR THEIR CAMPAIGNS, RESTRAINED SO MUCH BY THE JUDICIAL CODE OF CONDUCT IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY CAN SAY AND HOW THEY CAN CAMPAIGN IN THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.

BUT I THINK THIS WILL BE PROBABLY ONE OF THE BELLWETHER RACES ON THE BALLOT IN 22 IN NORTH CAROLINA.

IN 20, THE REPUBLICANS RAN THE TABLE AND WON EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE APPELLATE SEATS ON THE BALLOT THAT YEAR IN WHAT LOOKS LIKE IT'S SHAPING UP TO BE A RED WAVE ELECTION, THE SAME MAY HAPPEN AGAIN.

>> JAY YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THE RETIREMENT OF JUSTICE HUDSON AND WHAT SHE REPRESENTS IN OUR STATE'S HISTORY.

I MEAN I THINK FOR ONE, SHE WAS THE FIRST WOMAN ELECTED TO THE APPELLATE COURT WITHOUT EVER BEING APPOINTED I THINK THAT'S A THE POINT THAT PEOPLE DON'T REMEMBER.

SECONDLY, SHE WAS A CHAMPION FOR WORKERS RIGHTS.

SHE AUTHORED A UNANIMOUS LANDMARK DECISION THAT PROVIDED FOR PROTECTIONS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS THAT WAS ACTUALLY HERALDED EVEN BY THE JOHN LOCKE FOUNDATION, AND SHE'S ALSO BEEN AN OUTSPOKEN ADVOCATE FOR THE INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY AND THAT MAY BE ROOTED IN THE FACT THAT IN 2014, SHE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST JUSTICES TO RUN IN THE POST CITIZENS UNITED ERA WHERE THEY DID RUN ADS AGAINST JUSTICES WHERE THEY SAID THAT SHE HAD SIDED WITH CHILD MOLESTERS.

BUT I THINK HER RETIREMENT LAYS THE FOUNDATION FOR JUDGE LUCY AND THE COURT OF APPEALS AS JOE TALKED ABOUT AND THAT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE JUSTICE HUDSON I THINK IS VIEWED AS A MENTOR TO JUDGE LUCY INMAN.

>> MITCH.

>> I THINK ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS WE NOTED THAT YOU KNOW THE PARTISAN AFFILIATIONS OF THE JUSTICES.

NOW, BOTH TIMES THAT ROBIN HUDSON WON ELECTION TO THE SUPREME COURT SHE DID NOT HAVE TO RUN IN PARTY LABELS BECAUSE THERE WAS BASICALLY A PERIOD FROM THE EARLY 2 THOUSANDS UP UNTIL THE 2016, 2018 PERIOD WHERE THERE WERE NO PARTY LABELS.

BOTH TIMES ROBIN HUDSON WON.

SHE DID NOT HAVE TO IDENTIFY HERSELF AS A DEMOCRAT.

HAD SHE RUN THIS TIME SHE WOULD HAVE HAD TO, BUT AS WE POINTED OUT, SHE'S GOING TO TURN 72.

A LITTLE OVER A YEAR INTO WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AN 8 YEAR TERM AND THEN ANNOUNCING HER RETIREMENT, SHE SAID SHE DIDN'T WANT TO PUT HER FAMILY AND SUPPORTERS THROUGH THAT.

SPEND A YEAR RUNNING JUST TO KEEP THE JOB FOR A YEAR.

>> NELSON, THERE WILL BE A LOT OF OUTSIDE MONEY IN THESE RACES WONT THERE?

>> I THINK THERE WILL BE.

THERE HAS BEEN IN THE PAST, IT'S A GROWING TREND AND JUST AS YOU SEE RIGHT NOW WITH REDISTRICTING CASE IS BEING TAKEN UP BY THE STATE SUPREME COURT THAT THE FOCUS NOW IS LOCAL AND THE STAKES ARE FAR FAR HIGHER SO RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE A 4-3, DEMOCRAT MAJORITY ON THE STATE SUPREME COURT.

THAT COULD FLIP TO 5-2, REPUBLICAN IF YOU LOOK AT THE COURT OF APPEALS.

IT'S CURRENTLY 10 TO 5 REPUBLICAN.

WITH THE 4 SEATS THAT ARE UP THERE, THAT COULD MOVE TO 12-3 REPUBLICAN IN THIS ELECTION.

>> OKAY, LET'S GO TO THE MOST UNDERREPORTED STORIES OF THE YEAR MITCH.

>> FOR GOOD OR FOR ILL, DESPITE ALL THE FIGHTS ON SOME OTHER ISSUES, GOVERNOR ROY COOPER AND THE REPUBLICAN LED GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAVE REALLY COME TOGETHER DURING THE COURSE OF THE YEAR ON SOME BIG ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS AND WE'VE SEEN THAT COME TO FRUITION.

IN RECENT WEEKS,.

THERE WAS FIRST THE 430 MILLION DOLLARS IN INCENTIVES AN OUNCE FOR A 1.3 BILLION DOLLARS TOYOTA PLANT THAT'S GOING TO BE HAVING ELECTRIC AND HYBRID BATTERIES CREATED IN THAT PLANT, WE'RE ALSO LEARNING ABOUT A 100 MILLION DOLLARS PLUS IN INCENTIVES TO HELP BRING IN THIS MANUFACTURING FACILITY AT PIEDMONT TRIAD INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT FOR A COMPANY THAT MAKES SUPERSONIC JETS.

SO BASICALLY THE REASON I SAY FOR GOOD OR ILL HAVE TO SAY BECAUSE I WORK THERE THE JOHN LOCKE FOUNDATION IS AGAINST TARGETING TAX INCENTIVES.

BUT THIS IS THE TYPE OF THING THAT POLITICIANS OF ALL STRIPES SEEM TO BE FOR GETTING THESE BIG MAJOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ANNOUNCEMENTS.

>> SENATOR.

WELL GEE AGAINST JOBS OPP.

[LAUGHTER] >> ALL KIDDING ASIDE ON ON THE ISSUE OF JOBS REALLY.

MOST UNDERREPORTED STORY OF THE YEAR FOR ME ARE ACTUALLY DATA POINTS THAT WERE IDENTIFIED BY SIMON ROSENBERG OF THE NEW DEMOCRATIC NETWORK AND HE IS AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT FRANKLY DEMOCRATS DON'T TALK ABOUT JOBS, JOB JOBS, JOE BIDEN HAS CREATED 5.9 MILLION JOBS, THAT'S ALREADY 3 TIMES AS MANY JOBS THAT'S BEEN CREATED IN THE 16 YEARS BY THE 3 REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS COMBINED.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT JOBS HAVE BEEN CREATED SINCE 1989, 40 OUT OF 42 MILLION JOBS WERE CREATED UNDER DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATIONS THAT'S 95% OF ALL JOBS CREATED IN 1989, AND I THINK THAT'S THE MOST UNDERREPORTED STORY OF THE YEAR.

>> HOW DO YOU SELL THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK YOU TALK ABOUT JOBS.

I THINK THERE'S A NARRATIVE INFLATION AND JOBS.

I MEAN I JUST DON'T THINK THE DEMOCRATS ARE TALKING ENOUGH ABOUT JOBS.

>> I THINK JOBS ARE COMING BACK FROM THE PANDEMIC.

IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE CREATED.

IT'S PEOPLE WERE SENT HOME NOW THEY'RE GOING BACK TO WORK.

>> JOE UNDERREPORTED.

>> WELL INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH WE JUST CONCLUDED THE HURRICANE SEASON AND DESPITE PEOPLE'S OBSESSION WITH THE OMICRON VARIANT AND INFLATION WORRIES, THIS WAS THE 6TH CONSECUTIVE HURRICANE SEASON IN THE ATLANTIC BASIN THAT HAD AN ABOVE AVERAGE NUMBER OF NAMED STORMS, 21.

3RD TIME IN MODERN HISTORY THAT WE'VE DONE RUN OUT OF NAMES THERE WERE SO MANY STORMS, THIS IS JUST AN INDICATION OF AN INCREASED CYCLE OF THIS KIND OF ACTIVITY.

CLIMATICALLY IT INFLUENCES NORTH CAROLINA IN MANY WAYS.

WE WERE LUCKY THIS SEASON, DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF SIGNIFICANT EVENTS.

I THINK IT'S INEVITABLE IF THIS PATTERN CONTINUES AND IN ALL LIKELIHOOD IT WILL.

A SIGNIFICANT EVENT IN NORTH CAROLINA FROM A HURRICANE BASIS IS PROBABLY LIKELY IN OUR FUTURE.

>> NELSON UNDERREPORTED PLEASE >> WELL FOR 2021 THE DEATH OF GLOBALIZATION.

SOME LEADERS HAVE BEEN PINING FOR A RETURN TO THE U.S.

LED GLOBAL ORDER THAT WE ESSENTIALLY INVENTED AFTER WORLD WAR 2 TO RESURRECT THE WORLD'S ECONOMY PREVENT ANY MORE MAJOR WARS OCCURRING AND OF COURSE TO DEFEAT THE SOVIETS WE SUCCEEDED BEYOND OUR WILDEST EXPECTATIONS AND WE'VE ESSENTIALLY BEEN COASTING THE LAST 30 YEARS LOOKING MORE AND MORE INWARD WHICH IS AMERICA'S NORM IS TO LOOK INWARD ARE LARGELY SELF-SUFFICIENT HERE IN NORTH AMERICA, EUROPE CAN TAKE CARE OF ITSELF IF IT WOULD DO SO, WE'VE ALREADY DISENGAGED FROM THE MIDDLE EAST, THE WESTERN PACIFIC STILL INTEREST US AND COUNTRIES LIKE JAPAN AND AUSTRALIA ARE ON TEAM USA, CHINA IS NOT, AND THEIR SUCCESS WAS DEPENDENT ON THE ORDER AND NOW IT'S OVER.

>> ARE WE'RE LARGELY SELF-SUFFICIENT WHEN WE HAVE TO DEPEND ON TAIWAN AND OTHERS FOR CHIPS AND OTHER THINGS?

>> WELL THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE'RE INTERESTED IN THE WESTERN PACIFIC.

WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT TAIWAN, WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT THOSE CHIPS COMING FROM SOUTH KOREA AS WE BRING THAT MANUFACTURING BACK AND BUILD THOSE CHIP FABS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES HOPEFULLY ONE HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA.

>> OK I WANT TO MOVE ON.

WHO'S UP AND WHO'S DOWN THIS YEAR MITCH.

>> I HINTED AT THIS IN MY UNDER REPORTED STORY, MY UP IS BIPARTISAN COOPERATION IN THE STATE GOVERNMENT COMPLEX.

NOW WE SAW PLENTY OF PARTY LINE VOTES AND GOVERNOR COOPER WITH HIS LATEST VETOES HAS NOW TIED THE SINGLE YEAR RECORD OF 16 IN ONE YEAR.

>> BUT DESPITE THAT, THE BIGGEST ISSUE -- >> [MARC] HE'S GOT A STAMP.

>> WE GOTTA START GIVING VETOES NAMES LIKE HURRICANES!

[LAUGHTER] >> BUT THE BIGGEST ISSUE THAT LEGISLATORS AND THE GOVERNOR DEAL WITH IS THE BUDGET AND WE SAW 145 OF 170 STATE LAWMAKERS VOTE FOR THE BUDGET THIS TIME.

COOPER SIGNED IT, WAS THE FIRST TIME HE SIGNED IT'S A BIPARTISAN COOPERATION, MY DOWN I'VE ALREADY MENTIONED HIM AS WELL EARLIER, JEFF JACKSON, THE STATE SENATOR, WHO'S RUNNING FOR THE U.S. SENATE JUST HAS NOT SEEMED TO BE GETTING ANY TRACTION, AND NOW WITH ENDORSEMENTS OF CONGRESSMAN FOR CHERI BEASLEY THAT'S JUST ANOTHER HILL FOR HIM.

>> JAY.

>> WHO'S UP, >I THINK JOE MANCHIN'S BEEN UP THIS YEAR AND I THINK HE'S AS WELL-KNOWN HOUSEHOLD NAME AS JOE BIDEN AND DONALD TRUMP >> [MARC] IS HE GONNA RUN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2024?

>> I THINK HE SAID NO TO THAT BUT -- >> [MARC] THEY ALL SAY IT.

>> BUT LOOK I THINK HE'S OUT BECAUSE HE'S ABSOLUTELY HAS OUTSIZE INFLUENCE IN WASHINGTON HE'S CUT THE 6 TRILLION DOLLAR BUILD BACK BETTER BILL TO 1.75 TRILLION, CUT OUT THE CLIMATE CHANGE ASPECTS, FREE COMMUNITY COLLEGE.

THIS IS A GUY THAT LIVES ON A YACHT AND CONTINUES TO HAVE HIGHER APPROVAL RATINGS COMPARED TO WEST VIRGINIA WHERE JOE BIDEN'S APPROVAL RATE OF 32%.

AND WHO'S DOWN, DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA.

PRESIDENT BIDEN JUST HELD A DEMOCRACY SUMMIT AND ACCORDING TO TWO ORGANIZATIONS DEMOCRACY IS BACKSLIDING IN OUR COUNTRY AND I THINK THAT'S A REAL CONCERN.

>> JOE QUICKLY WHO'S UP AND WHO'S DOWN THIS YEAR?

>> UP I THINK AS WE COME INTO THE END OF THE YEAR START THE ELECTION-YEAR LOT OF NEW FACES WILL BE ON THE BALLOT AS A RESULT OF RETIREMENTS.

WHO'S DOWN OF VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS.

A TOUGH YEAR.

SOME EMBARRASSING TRIPS ABROAD, TROUBLE WITHIN HER STAFF, AFTER THE MIDTERM ELECTION, THE QUESTIONS WILL BEGIN TO BE RAISED, BIDEN,THE SOON TO BE OCTOGENARIAN IS HE GOING TO RUN, BUT IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO I DON'T THINK VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS IS A LOCK FOR THE NOMINATION.

>> NELSON.

>> WHO'S UP THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT.

THEY SURVIVED ATTACKS FROM THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT IN 2021, THEY DODGED SO FAR CONGRESSIONAL COURT PACKING SCHEMES AND A PRESIDENTIAL COMMISSION THAT HAD A 300 PAGE REPORT WITH NO RECOMMENDATIONS.

LOOK FOR SEVERAL LANDMARK DECISIONS IN 2022 FROM THE COURT.

DOWN THE CUOMO BROTHERS.

FORMER GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO -- >> [MARC] THAT WAS AN EASY TARGET.

[LAUGHTER] >> -- AND FORMER CNN ANCHOR CHRIS, THEY ENTERED THE YEAR ON TOP OF THE POLITICAL AND MEDIA WORLD AND AT THE END OF THE YEAR THEY EXIT HAVING LOST THEIR JOBS THEIR BOOK DEALS, FUTURE SHOT AT THE PRESIDENCY, ALTHOUGH 2022, CHRIS IS GOING TO BE SUING CNN FOR 18 MILLION DOLLARS.

>> OK HE MAY COME OUT OKAY.

WHAT THE BIG HEADLINE NEXT YEAR MITCH?

>> IS ANDREW SUNNY OR MICHAEL THAT'S THE QUESTION.

TWO YEARS AFTER THE PANDEMIC STARTED COVID'S AFTERMATH STILL AFFECTS ELECTIONS IN MULTIPLE WAYS, >> JAY?

>> LOOK I THINK THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM SEEMS TO BE IT'S GOING TO BE DOOM AND GLOOM FOR DEMOCRATS NEXT YEAR.

BUT I THINK THE ALTERNATIVE HEADLINE IS WE TALK ABOUT JOBS, WE TALK ABOUT REBUILDING THE ECONOMY AND THINGS BUT WILL COME BACK TO NORMAL.

I THINK THE HEADLINE NEXT YEAR'S DEMOCRATS MITIGATE ANY LOSSES IN THE MIDTERM.

>> SO YOU'RE GOING AGAINST CONVENTIONAL WISDOM.

>> I WOULD SAY CONVENTIONAL AND THAT'S CERTAINLY WHAT MAINSTREAM HEADLINES ARE.

>> HEADLINE NEXT YEAR CONVENTIONAL WISDOM IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AND A BIG RED WAVE RIGHT AFTER LABOR DAY, THE PREDICTIONS ARE REPUBLICANS TAKE CONTROL OF THE U.S. SENATE AND THE HOUSE.

>> YOU REALLY THINK SO?

>> I DO.

>> I DO.

I THINK REPUBLICANS GET PROBABLY GET ABOUT 45 SEATS, MINIMAL.

NELSON?

>> WAR IS THE HEADLINE FOR NEXT YEAR.

WE'RE LIKELY TO SEE A MAJOR REGIONAL WAR START, WE'LL HAVE SOME OF THIS DECADE.

MOST LIKELY RUSSIA, EGYPT CHINA, POTENTIALLY THE MIDDLE EAST, >> [JAY] HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU NELSON.

[CHUCKLING] >> OKAY, WE'VE GOT TO ROLL.

GREAT JOBS GENTS.

THAT'S IT FOR US.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU NEXT WEEKEND ON FRONT ROW.

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