>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

HORROR AND PAIN IN GAZA, CNN WITNESSES FIRSTHAND THE INTENSE SUFFERING AT A HOSPITAL INSIDE THE ENCLAVE, AND WE'LL HAVE A SPECIAL REPORT.

>>> AND AMID THE ANGER AND LOSS, A BEACON OF HOPE.

I'M JOINED BY TWO NEW FRIENDS WHO HAVE LOST LOVED ONES TO THIS WAR, A PALESTINIAN AND AN ISRAELI WHO NOW FIGHT TOGETHER FOR PEACE.

>>> THEN, IS THIS THE END OF DIRTY ENERGY?

COP26 PRESIDENT UK MP ALOK SHARMA REACTS TO THAT LANDMARK DEAL ON FOSSIL FUELS.

>>> PLUS, "THE UPCYCLED SELF," RENOWNED RAPPER BLACK THOUGHT ON HIS NEW MEMOIR, A STORY OF TRAGEDY AND RESILIENCE.

"AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM AT WOTD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA STROUSZ, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

TONIGHT WHAT WE'VE REPORTED ON FOR TWO MONTHS WE SEE THROUGH THE EYES OF OUR OWN CORRESPONDENT FOR THE FIRST TIME, THE DESPERATE HUMANITARIAN DISASTER IN GAZA.

SINCE ISRAEL LOST 1,200 CITIZENS TO HAMAS SLAUGHTER ON OCTOBER 7th, THEIR COUNTER OFFENSIVE IN GAZA HAS HAD A CATASTROPHIC EFFECT ON PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS.

MORE THAN 18,000 GAZANS HAVE BEEN KILLED ACCORDING TO THE HAMAS-RUN MINISTRY OF HEALTH THERE.

AND TODAY ISRAEL'S DEFENSE MINISTER INFORMED THE VISITING U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, JAKE SULLIVAN, THEIR WAR ON HAMAS WILL LAST, QUOTE, MORE THAN SEVERAL MONTHS.

SULLIVAN'S MEETINGS WITH GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS INCLUDING BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, THE PRIME MINISTER, COME AS THE WHITE HOUSE PUSHES THEM TO BE MORE PRECISE IN REDUCING THE RISK TO CIVILIANS.

SCORES OF BRAVE PALESTINIAN JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN BRINGING THE HORRORS SUFFERED IN GAZA TO THE WORLD, MANY OF THEM HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES DOING SO.

NOW CNN IS THE FIRST WESTERN MEDIA OUTLET TO GAIN ACCESS WITHOUT ISRAELI MILITARY ESCORTS.

CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT CLARISSA WARD WITNESSES THE SEVERE CRISIS ON A VISIT TO A FIELD HOSPITAL FACILITATED BY THE UAE, AND OF COURSE IT IS PAINFUL TO WATCH.

>> Reporter: YOU DON'T HAVE TO SEARCH FOR TRAGEDY IN GAZA.

IT FINDS YOU ON EVERY STREET STREWN WITH TRASH AND STAGNANT WATER, DESOLATE AND FOREBODING.

SO WE'VE JUST CROSSED THE BORDER INTO SOUTHERN GAZA.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'VE ACTUALLY BEEN ABLE TO GET INTO GAZA SINCE OCTOBER 7th, AND WE ARE NOW DRIVING TO A FIELD HOSPITAL THAT HAS BEEN SET UP BY THE UAE.

UP UNTIL NOW, ISRAEL AND EGYPT HAVE MADE ACCESS FOR INTERNATIONAL JOURNALISTS NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE, AND YOU CAN SEE WHY.

SINCE OCTOBER 7th, THE ISRAELI MILITARY SAYS IT HAS HIT GAZA WITH MORE THAN 22,000 STRIKES.

THAT BY FAR SURPASSES ANYTHING WE'VE SEEN IN MODERN WARFARE IN TERMS OF INTENSITY AND VE ROSTY, AND WE REALLY, HONESTLY ARE GETTING A GLIMPSE OF IT HERE.

DESPITE ISRAEL'S HEAVY BOMBARDMENT, THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT ON THE STREETS.

A CROWD OUTSIDE A BAKERY.

WHERE ELSE CAN THEY GO?

NOWHERE IS SAFE IN GAZA.

>> USED TO BE A STADIUM.

>> Reporter: ARRIVING AT THE EMIRATI FIELD HOSPITAL, WE MEET DR. ABDALLAH AL KNOCK BEE, NO SOONER DOES OUR TOUR BEGIN WHEN -- >> AND THIS IS WHAT YOU HEAR ALL THE TIME NOW?

>> YES.

AT LEAST 20 TIMES A DAY.

>> AT LEAST 20 TIMES A DAY?

>> MAYBE MORE SOMETIMES.

I THINK WE GET USED TO IT.

>> Reporter: ONE THING NONE OF THE DOCTORS HERE HAVE GOTTEN USED TO IS THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN THEY ARE TREATING.

THE U.N.

ESTIMATES THAT SOME TWO-THIRDS OF THOSE KILLED IN THIS ROUND OF THE CONFLICT HAVE BEEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

8-YEAR-OLD JENAN WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO SURVIVE A STRIKE ON HER FAMILY HOME THAT CRUSHED HER FEMUR BUT SPARED HER IMMEDIATE FAMILY.

SHE SAYS SHE'S NOT IN PAIN SO THAT'S GOOD.

HER MOTHER WAS OUT WHEN IT HAPPENED.

I WENT TO THE HOSPITAL TO LOOK FOR HER, SHE SAYS, AND I CAME HERE AND I FOUND HER HERE.

THE DOCTORS TOLD ME WHAT HAPPENED WITH HER, AND I MADE SURE THAT SHE'S OKAY.

THANK GOD.

>> THEY BOMBED THE HOUSE IN FRONT OF US AND THEN OUR HOME SHE TELLS US.

I WAS SITTING NEXT TO MY GRANDFATHER, AND MY GRANDFATHER HELD ME, AND MY UNCLE WAS FINE SO HE IS THE ONE WHO TOOK US OUT.

BUT THE DOCTOR SAYS IT IS HARD NOT TO.

>> I WORK WITH ALL PEOPLE, LIKE ADULTS, BUT THE CHILDREN IS SOMETHING TOUCHING YOUR HEART.

>> TOUCHES YOUR HEART AND TESTS YOUR FAITH IN HUMANITHUMANITY.

AS WE LEAVE JATHE DOCTOR COMES BACK WITH THE NEWS OF CASUALTIES ARRIVING FROM THE STRIKE EARLIER.

>> TWO AMPUTATED YOUNG MALE FROM JUST THE BOMBING.

>> FROM THE BOMB WE JUST HEARD?

>> THIS IS MY UNDERSTANDING.

>> OKAY.

>> Reporter: A MAN AND A 13-YEAR-OLD BOY ARE WHEELED IN, BOTH MISSING LIMBS, BOTH IN A PERILOUS STATE.

WHAT'S YOUR NAME?

WHAT'S YOUR NAME THE DOCTOR ASKS?

THE NOTES PROVIDED BY THE PARAMEDICS ARE SMEARED WITH BLOOD, TOURNIQUET IMPROVISED WITH A BANDAGE.

SINCE THE FIELD HOSPITAL OPENED LESS THAN TWO WEEKS AGO, IT HAS BEEN INUNDATED WITH PATIENTS, 130 OF THEIR 150 BEDS ARE ALREADY FULL.

>> SO LET ME UNDERSTAND THIS, YOU ARE NOW BASICALLY THE ONLY HOSPITAL AROUND THAT STILL HAS SOME BEDS?

>> I GUESS SO, YES.

OR MAYBE I'M VERY SURE OF THAT, BUT THEY ARE TELLING ME ONE OF THE HOSPITALS WITH A CAPACITY OF 200, THEY HAVE 1,000 RIGHT NOW, AND THE NEXT DOOR HOPE LIKE 50 TO 100 HAVE MAYBE 400 TO 500 PATIENTS.

SO AT ONE OCCASION HE CALLED ME.

HE SAID I HAVE THREE PATIENTS IN EACH BED.

PLEASE TAKE ANY.

I TELL HIM SEND AS MUCH AS YOU CAN.

>> I MEAN, WE'VE BEEN HERE 15 MINUTES AND THIS IS ALREADY WHAT WE'RE SEEING.

>> YOU HEAR THAT, YOU SEE.

>> Reporter: IN EVERY BED ANOTHER GUT PUNCH, LESS THAN 2 YEARS OLD, AMIR STILL DOESN'T KNOW THAT HIS PARENTS AND SIBLINGS WERE KILLED IN THE STRIKE THAT DISFIGURED HIM.

YESTERDAY HE SAW A NURSE THAT LOOKED LIKE HIS FATHER, HIS AUNT NAHIYA TELLS US, HE KEPT SCREAMING DAD, DAD, DAD.

AMIR IS STILL TOO YOUNG TO COMPREHEND THE HORROR ALL AROUND HIM, BUT 20-YEAR-OLD LAMA UNDERSTANDS IT ALL TOO WELL.

TEN WEEKS AGO SHE WAS STUDYING ENGINEERING AT UNIVERSITY AND HELPING TO PLAN HER SISTER'S WEDDING.

TODAY SHE IS RECOVERING FROM THE AMPUTATION OF HER RIGHT LEG.

HER FAMILY FOLLOWED ISRAELI MILITARY ORDERS AND FLED FROM THE NORTH TO THE SOUTH, BUT THE HOUSE WHERE THEY WERE SEEKING SHELTER WAS HIT IN A STRIKE.

THE WORLD ISN'T LISTENING TO US, SHE SAYS.

NOBODY CARES ABOUT US.

WE HAVE BEEN DYING FOR OVER 60 DAYS, DYING FROM THE BOMBING, AND NOBODY DID ANYTHING.

WORDS OF CONDEMNATION DELIVERED IN A THIN RASP.

BUT DOES ANYONE HEAR THEM?

LIKE GROZNY, ALEPPO AND MARIUPOL, GAZA WILL GO DOWN AS ONE OF THE GREAT HORRORS OF MODERN WARFARE.

IT'S GETTING DARK, TIME FOR US TO LEAVE, A PRIVILEGE THE VAST MAJORITY OF GAZANS DO NOT HAVE.

OUR BRIEF GLIMPSE FROM A WINDOW ON TO HELL IS ENDING AS A NEW CHAPTER IN THIS UGLY CONFLICT UNFOLDS.

>> AND THE HELL CONTINUE THE, CLARISSA WARD REPORTING THERE FROM SOUTHERN GAZA.

MEANWHILE, A CONCRETE SNAPSHOT ABOUT WHAT SOME OF OUR GUESTS AND EXPERTS HAVE BEEN TELLING US SENSE OCTOBER 7th AND THE COUNTEROFFENSIVE ON GAZA.

A RESPECTED PALESTINIAN POLLING AGENCY NOW SAYS SUPPORT FOR HAMAS HAS MORE THAN TRIPLED IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK COMPARED TO THREE MONTHS AGO.

THE RESULTS SAY SUPPORT IS EVEN UP IN GAZA, BUT BY A MUCH SMALLER AMOUNT.

OCTOBER 7th AND ITS AFTERMATH HAVE CLEARLY CAUSED DEEP DIVISIONS AT HOME AND AROUND THE WORLD, OFTEN UGLY, POLARIZING DIVISION, EVEN WITHIN FAMILIES, AMONGST WORK COLLEAGUES AND FELLOW STUDENTS, WHICH MAKES MY NEXT GUESTS' MISSION TO BUILD BRIDGES, NOT TO BURN THEM, TRULY EXTRAORDINARY.

MAGEN INON'S PARENTS WERE BOTH KILLED ON OCTOBER 7th, BUT INSTEAD OF SEEKING REVENGE, HE'S WORKING FOR PEACE AND UNITY.

TOGETHER WITH HAMZE AWAWDE, A PALESTINIAN CAMPAIGNER WHO'S ALSO LOST FAMILY MEMBERS TO THIS ENDLESS CYCLE OF VIOLENCE.

THEY SAY THEY MUST START PREPARING FOR A DIFFERENT FUTURE, EVEN BEFORE THE GUNS FALL SILENT.

THEY ONLY JUST MET AT A RECENT VIGIL FOR BEREAVED FAMILIES HERE IN LONDON, AND THEY JOIN ME IN THE STUDIO IN WHAT TURNS OUT TO BE A MASTER CLASS IN FINDING THE HUMANITY.

MAGEN, HAMZE, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

YOU HAVE SUFFERED AN UNSPEAKABLE TRAGEDY OCTOBER 7th, YOUR PARENTS WERE KILLED.

CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT IT?

>> YES, SO IN THE MORNING OF OCTOBER 7th, WE SAW IN THE NEWS AND MY FAMILY WHATSAPP STARTED BUZZING, AND THEN MY BROTHER AND SISTERS WERE ASKING MY PARENTS IF THEY'RE OKAY.

WE GOT A MESSAGE FROM MY PARENTS SAYING THAT THEY'RE IN THE SAFE ROOM IN THEIR HOME, AND THEY CAN HEAR GUNSHOTS.

THEY'VE LOCKED THE HOUSE, AND THAT WAS THE LAST MESSAGE WE GOT FROM THEM.

WE LATER LEARNED THAT THE HAMAS TERRORISTS USED THE MOTORIZED PARACHUTES TO FLY INTO THE VILLAGE WHERE MY PARENTS LIVE, AND THEIR HOUSE WAS HIT DIRECTLY BY A SHOULDER ROCKET, AND IT WAS PARTIALLY MADE OF WOOD.

THE HOUSE BURNED DOWN COMPLETELY WITH MY PARENTS IN IT, AND WE PRAY THAT THEY -- THAT IT WAS QUICK AND THAT THEY DID NOT SUFFER AND WE HAVE SOME CONSOLATION THAT THEY DIED TOGETHER.

>> IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO HEAR, ISN'T IT?

AND THIS IS SUCH A RAW AND IMMEDIATE TRAUMA.

I'M FASCINATED BECAUSE YOUR FAMILY ALSO PALESTINIANS HAVE SUFFERED TRAUMA THROUGHOUT THE YEARS, AND I AM FASCINATED HOW OUT OF THIS YOU PARTICULARLY BECAUSE YOURS IS THE MOST RAW AND YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO COME TOGETHER.

YOU NEVER MET BEFORE, RIGHT, UNTIL YOU ATTEND ED A VIGIL HER IN LONDON.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT, HAMZE, WHAT WAS THE VIGIL AND WHY WAS IT IMPORTANT?

>> SO I WAS COMING TO THE UK, AND A MUTUAL FRIEND TOLD ME IF I WOULD BE INTERESTED.

I HONESTLY HAVE LOST HOPE LONG TIME AGO BECAUSE OF THE NEGLIGENCE TO THIS CONFLICT BECAUSE ONLY CRAZY PEOPLE ARE -- CRAZY LEADERS ARE SAYING TERRIBLE THINGS AND THEY GET AWAY IT AND THE COMMUNITY IS BEING JUST LIP SERVICE TO THE SOLUTION, THEY DON'T REALLY MEAN IT.

WHEN THEY SAY EQUAL MEASURES OF FREEDOM AND SECURITY, THEY DON'T REALLY MEAN IT.

THE SUMMER I WAS MEETING WITH U.S. OFFICIALS AND ALSO COMMUNITY LEADERS, BUT THEY DIDN'T SEE THE URGENCY, BUT FOR ME I SEE THE URGENCY, AND I SEE WHERE THE SITUATION IS GOING, AND I LOST HOPE.

LOSING HOPE IS REALLY, YOU KNOW -- >> IT'S THE END, WHERE THERE'S NO HOPE, THERE'S NO LIFE.

>> YEAH.

AND THEN OCTOBER 7th, WHICH WAS BEYOND MY EXPECTATIONS.

THIS ACTUALLY WAS REALLY WORSE THAN WHAT I EVER EXPECTED.

AND THEN I UNDERSTOOD THAT HOPE IS LIKE LOVE, IT'S SOMETHING -- IT'S AN ACTION, IT'S NOT JUST A FEELING.

>> BUT FOR PEOPLE WHO WON'T UNDERSTAND THIS, HOW DO YOU AND MAYBE EVEN YOU SEE HOPE OUT OF THIS -- HOW DO YOU SEE HOPE OF THIS MOMENT?

>> WE ARE CREATING HOPE.

WE DON'T SEE.

WE ARE CREATING HOPE.

>> YOU ARE CREATING IT TOGETHER.

>> BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT US.

IT'S ABOUT US, IT'S ABOUT OUR FUTURE AND OUR CHILDREN'S FUTURE.

I PERSONALLY LIVED ALL MY LIFE UNDER VERY HEAVY MILITARY REGIME WHERE EVERYTHING WAS LIMITED -- >> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK.

>> YEAH, OCCUPIED WEST BANK, AND MY FAMILY HAVE SUFFERED ALL THESE YEARS, AND WE ALWAYS THOUGHT THE FUTURE WOULD BE BETTER, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY GETTING WORSE, AND I DON'T WANT THIS TO MY SON.

I DON'T WANT THIS TO MY SON, SO I ALWAYS DREAM TO HAVE NO MORE PROBLEMS AND HAVE -- BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SEE LEADERS NOT DOING THE RIGHT THING, WHEN YOU SEE THINGS ALSO GOING DOWN VERY, VERY FAST SPEED, IT'S -- WE HAVE TO TAKE THE AGENCY BACK.

>> AND HOW DO YOU DO THAT, MAGEN?

AGAIN, OUT OF YOUR TRAUMA, I MEAN, WE KNOW THAT ISRAEL IS IN A STATE OF TRAUMA RIGHT NOW.

THE PEOPLE ARE TRAUMATIZED AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHETHER THIS KIND OF UNITY THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AND SEEING THE OTHER AND SAHARING, YOU KNOW, HUMANITY, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT'S POSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE INSIDE ISRAEL RIGHT NOW.

HOW OUT OF YOUR TRAUMA CAN YOU RE -- OR BUILD, NOT EVEN REBUILD, BUILD IT.

>> I THINK TWO THINGS HERE.

ONE IS THAT WE FELT AS A FAMILY THAT WE DON'T WANT ANYONE -- ANY EXTREMIST TO HIJACK OUR PAIN AND CALL FOR REVENGE, WHICH IS COMPLETELY NOT WHAT MY PARENTS WOULD HAVE WANTED.

I MEAN, WE THINK, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE IN THE ISRAEL AND PALESTINE DESERVE SAFETY AND SECURITY AND EQUALITY, BUT THE REVENGE IS NOT -- THE ATTITUDE THAT WE WERE SEEKING, IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR MY FAMILY TO SPEAK OUT AND SAY, YOU KNOW, WE -- THIS IS NOT -- THIS IS NOT OUR WAY, AND THE SECOND THING IS WHERE I THINK ME AND HAMZE REALLY SEE EYE TO EYE IS THAT WE HAVE SONS THAT ARE ABOUT THE SAME AGE.

>> HOW OLD ARE THEY?

>> 6 1/2.

>> 6 1/2.

>> YEAH.

SO THEY'RE ABOUT THE SAME AGE, AND IF WE WANT THEM TO HAVE A FUTURE, WE HAVE TO START WORKING ON IT NOW SO THAT THEY GROW UP NOT FEARING AND NOT HATING ANYONE ELSE AND EVEN IN THE IMMEDIATE -- >> FUTURE.

>> -- FUTURE, I DON'T HAVE ANY MAGIC SOLUTIONS, BUT IN THE LONG-TERM, I WANT MY KIDS TO GROW UP SO THAT THEY DON'T FEAR AND DON'T HATE ANYONE, AND FOR THAT WE HAVE TO START WORKING NOW.

>> SO I KNOW IT MAYBE SOUNDS A LITTLE FRIVOLOUS, BUT YOUR TWO PARTICULAR KIDS, I THINK YOU'RE THIGH TRYING TO GET THEM TO MEET AND PLAY SPORTS TOGETHER.

IS THAT RIGHT?

>> YOU KNOW, NOW I MOVE TO ITALY SINCE THE WAR STARTED.

>> SO YOU LEFT ON OCTOBER 7th.

>> I LEFT ON OCTOBER 8th.

>> 8th.

>> BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY SON.

MAYBE THIS TIME IF I DIDN'T HAVE MY CHILD, I WOULD BE THERE TO HELP PEOPLE, REFUGEES FROM GAZA IN HOSPITALS AND JERUSALEM WERE KICKED OUT BUT YOU KNOW I HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TOWARDS MY SON.

I DON'T WANT HIM TO BE IN THIS RADICAL SITUATION AND UNSAFE SITUATION.

WE WERE BOTH ABOUT TO BE KILLED ON OCTOBER 5th.

THE ARMY JUMPED, THEY LOADED OUR GUNS.

THEY PUT TO OUR HEADS.

>> OURS, YOU AND YOUR SON.

>> OCTOBER 5th, ALREADY, AND IF I DIDN'T SPEAK HEBREW AND DEALT WITH IT IN A VERY -- IN A VERY SMART WAY, WE WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED.

THE OFFICER TOLD ME I WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE AND IT'S MY FAULT.

I TOLD HIM HOW COULD I KNOW, IN THE CENTER THAT THERE'S ARMY HIDING AND I SHOULD HAVE -- AND I REALLY WAS THINKING ABOUT MAYBE IF I DO FAVOR TO MY SON I TAKE HIM SOMEWHERE ELSE.

HE LOVE PALESTINE.

HE WANTS TO STAY IN PALESTINE WITH HIS FRIENDS.

SO IN ITALY, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE ENVIRONMENT, OF COURSE HE CAN PLAY WITH HIM AND IT'S POSSIBLE, BUT BACK HOME, PALESTINIAN CHILDREN AND ISRAELI CHILDREN, EVEN WHEN THEY LIVE ACROSS THE STREET, THEY CAN'T BECAUSE THE SITUATION IS RADICAL.

PEOPLE ARE NICE, PEOPLE ARE GOOD ON BOTH SIDES, BUT THE SYSTEM IS NOT GOOD.

>> DO YOU FEEL THIS TOO, PEOPLE ARE NICE, PEOPLE ARE GOOD ON BOTH SIDES?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, WHEN WE FIRST MET -- >> SO TELL ME HOW YOU FIRST MET.

YOU MET ON THE STAGE OR SOMETHING OR SOMEWHERE AT THIS VIGIL.

>> MAYBE UNDERNEATH, YES, THERE WAS A VIGIL SUNDAY BEFORE LAST WHERE A GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS AND ORGANIZATIONS, WE FELT LIKE THERE'S A NEED HERE IN LONDON TO SAY -- TO PROVIDE A DIFFERENT VOICE TO PEOPLE.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT MANY PEOPLE FEEL THE NEED TO DO SOMETHING, SO WE WANTED TO OFFER AN OPTION WHERE IT'S NOT JUST MARCHING THE DOWN THE STREET WITH A VERY SIMPLISTIC SLOGAN BUT RATHER MAYBE HAVE SOME UNITY TOGETHER AROUND COMMON HUMANITY.

AND GETTING ON THE STAGE, PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS.

>> AND BEREAVED PEOPLE FOR BOTH ISRAEL AND PALESTINE.

>> YEAH.

AND SO WE MET, I THINK, JUST NEAR THE STAGE THERE FOR THE FIRST TIME, AND I THINK CONNECT QUITE WELL.

IT WAS VERY NATURAL AND I THINK WE SHARED VERY SIMILAR VALUES AND SO IT WAS VERY NATURAL FOR US TO GO ON STAGE TOGETHER AND PROVIDE THAT MESSAGE.

>> AGAIN, IT IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE THAT BARELY TWO MONTHS AFTER YOU LOST YOUR PARENTS TO PALESTINIAN RADICAL, TERRORISTS, HAMAS, THAT YOU IMMEDIATELY WERE ABLE TO BOND.

I FIND THAT EXTRAORDINARY.

DO YOU FIND THAT EXTRAORDINARY?

>> YES, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S ALSO RATIONAL BECAUSE THERE'S URGENCY, AND IT'S ABOUT US, YOU KNOW.

I HAVE ALWAYS SAID I AM WILLING TO FORGIVE ANYONE EVERYTHING, BUT AT LEAST I WANT TO SAVE THE FUTURE.

YOU KNOW, I CAN'T FORGIVE ANYONE FOR RUINING MY FUTURE.

I FORGIVE THE PAST AND ALSO THE PRESENT, BUT IF WE CAN'T, YOU KNOW, WE ALSO SEE THE SAME.

HE SEES THE FUTURE, YOU KNOW.

WE DIDN'T GET ANY PROMISE FROM ANY LEADER THAT THE FUTURE WOULD BE BETTER.

SO WE HAVE TO.

WE HAVE THE URGENCY.

>> AND I THINK JUST TO ADD IS IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ME TO TELL MY ISRAELI FRIENDS, LISTEN, GUYS, THERE'S PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE WE CAN TALK TO AND I THINK FOR HAMZE IT'S IMPORTANT TO TELL HIS PALESTINIAN FRIENDS, LISTEN, GUYS, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S MANY OF US, BUT I THINK THERE MIGHT BE A GROWING MOVEMENT, AND JUST TO PUT IT IN NUMBERS, IF THE U.S. SPENDS $3.8 BILLION A YEAR ON MILITARY AID BE UT A FRACTION OF THAT, S LESS THAN 50 MILLION ON PEACE BUILDING, JUST IMAGINE IF IT WAS THE OTHER WAY AROUND, WHERE WOULD BE?

SO THERE'S PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE PART OF THIS PEACE MOVEMENT.

AGAIN, TALKING IN THE LONG-TERM, NOW EVERYTHING IS -- THE FLAMES ARE SO HIGH AND TENSION IS SO HIGH, BUT IN THE DETELONG-TERM IS THE ONLY SOLUTION.

WE NEED HELP.

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BY ITSELF.

WE HAVE THIS NATURAL CONNECTION HERE THAT HAPPENED BECAUSE WE BOTH FELT THE URGENCY BUT WE NEED HELP FROM THE OUTSIDE TO BE ABLE TO BRING THAT TO MANY MORE PEOPLE.

>> AND AGAIN, YOU TWO ARE BOTH OUTSIDE YOUR RESPECTIVE COUNTRIES, AND YOU LEFT ON OCTOBER 8th.

YOU HAVE BEEN HERE.

HOW DO YOU DO IT FROM THE OUTSIDE?

DO YOU FEEL MAYBE YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO LIGHT THIS MOVEMENT THAT YOU'VE SPARKED?

>> MY SON EVERY DAY TELLS ME I WANT TO GO BACK, AND I SPEAK WITH PEOPLE, EVEN IN GAZA.

THIS MORNING A FRIEND OF MINE WAS KILLED.

HE WAS A JOURNALIST.

HE WAS PART OF PEACEFUL THAT I RAN IN THE PAST, THAT WAS ALSO ABOUT JOURNALISM, BROUGHT JOURNALISTS TOGETHER.

I SPEAK WITH PEOPLE AND I KEEP IN TOUCH AND I TRY TO LISTEN FROM THEM, NOT FROM THE MEDIA, NOT FROM THE LEADERS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE TRUTH IS UNDERGRO UNDERGROUND.

I TELL THEM HOW CAN I HELP, WHAT MESSAGES THE WORLD HAS TO KNOW.

AND I HOPE I'M BEING HELPFUL BY BEING OUTSIDE AND BEING FREE BECAUSE IF I WAS BACK HOME I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SAY WHAT I'M SAYING NOW.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS THE ARMY WOULD ARREST SOMEONE FOR A FACEBOOK STATUS FOR SPEAKING UP.

I GET THE THREATS.

I GET CONDEMNATION FROM BOTH SIDES, YOU KNOW.

SO BEING OUTSIDE, I HAVE THIS PRIVILEGE TO SPEAK FREELY AND I'M TRYING TO BE THE VOICE OF PEOPLE.

I WILL BE BACK HOPEFULLY SOON, HOPEFULLY THIS WAR ENDS SOON, AND WE WILL HAVE TO WORK WITH PEOPLE.

>> ON THIS PROGRAM, WE HAD ONE OF THE PEACE ACTIVIST WHO IS YOU ALL KNOW, ROBBIE DAM LYNN WHO I THINK WAS AT THE SAME INDIVIDUAL ILL. SHE ALSO IS A BEREAVED ISRAELI PARENT, AND SHE WORKS WITH PALESTINIAN PARENTS WHO HAVE LOST THEIR CHILDREN AS WELL.

AND SHE SAID SOMETHING TO US, SHE SAID I'M IMPLORING YOUR COUNTRY AND OTHER COUNTRIES NOT TO IMPORT OUR CONFLICT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS?

HOW DOES THAT RESONATE WITH YOU?

>> SO I LOVE ROBBIE, AND SHE'S AN AMAZING WOMAN.

I THINK IN A WAY IT'S TOO LATE.

THE CONFLICT IS ALREADY IMPORTED INTO LONDON AND THE U.S. AND EUROPE, AND, YOU KNOW, MY SON HERE GOES TO A SCHOOL IN A VERY DIVERSE COMMUNITY.

PEOPLE FROM ALL BACKGROUNDS INCLUDING MUSLIM, QUITE A LARGE MUSLIM COMMUNITY, AND WE LOVE THAT.

WE HAVE VERY GOOD RELATIONSHIPS WITH EVERYONE IN THE SCHOOL OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, AND SINCE OCTOBER 7th, TENSIONS ARE REALLY HIGH.

AND SO I HOPE THE VIGIL AND THE -- MY HAMZE IS A NEW PARTNER, BUT ALSO OTHER PEOPLE WE CAN PROVIDE A DIFFERENT PLATFORM FOR PEOPLE TO SHOW THAT THEY CARE ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE MIDDLE EAST, BUT WE CAN PROVIDE SOLIDARITY AND MAYBE SERVE AS ROLE MODELS HERE IN LONDON WHERE IT'S EASIER, SERVE AS ROLE MODELS FOR WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN IN THE MIDDLE EAST AS WELL, AND I HOPE WE CAN DO THAT BECAUSE, AGAIN, THE CONFLICT IS ALREADY HERE.

IT'S IN SCHOOLS.

IT'S IN UNIVERSITIES.

IT'S IN COMMUNITIES, AND SO IF WE'RE ABLE TO PROVIDE A DIFFERENT VOICE HERE, MAYBE THAT WOULD HELP PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE EAST AS WELL.

>> CAN I ASK YOU BOTH, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU WANT TO ADDRESS, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO MAY HAVE A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS AND PEOPLE BEHIND YOU, BUT YOU'RE NOT IN GOVERNMENT.

YOU'RE NOT IN THE MILITARY.

YOU'RE NOT IN NGOs OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, AND YOU'VE BOTH COMPLAINED ABOUT THE STATUS OF YOUR LEADERSHIP.

CLEARLY THIS GOVERNMENT'S POPULARITY IS AT ROCK BOTTOM.

YES, ISRAELIS SUPPORT THE WAR AND TO GET RID OF HAMAS IN GAZA, BUT THE POPULARITY IS AT ROCK BOTTOM.

THEY WANT NETANYAHU AND HIS COHORT OUT.

SAME ON THE PALESTINIAN SIDE, THE POPULARITY OF THE P.A., YOUR NOMINAL LEADERS ROCK BOTTOM.

WHAT CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT HAMAS?

DO YOU THINK THEY'RE -- ARE THEY BENEFITTING FROM THIS SITUATION?

DO YOU THINK THEY'RE POPULAR?

THEY CAN'T LEAD TO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, CAN THEY?

>> I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS THE BIGGEST SERVICE FOR HAMAS.

WHOEVER IS THINKING KILLING PEOPLE WILL WEAKEN HAMAS IS REALLY NEVER UNDERSTOOD ANYTHING FROM HISTORY.

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST WAR WITH HAMAS.

ISRAEL HAD SEVERAL WARS WITH HAMAS, AND SEVERAL TIME THEY ELIMINATED POLITICAL LEADERS AND MILITARY LEADERS.

THIS ONLY GET HAMAS POPULARITY.

MOST OF THE FIGHTERS ARE THE OFFENSE OF -- AND THE OFFENSE OF THIS WAR WILL BE THE SOLDIERS OF THE NEXT WAR.

SO IF WE NEED TO EDUCATE HAMAS, I MEAN, GENUINELY AND SUCCESSFULLY, WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

WE HAVE TO SHOW PEOPLE A DIFFERENT VISION, TO TELL PEOPLE, YES, YOU WILL HAVE A STATE.

YOU'RE ENTITLED TO HUMAN RIGHTS.

YOU'RE ENTITLED TO EQUAL RIGHTS, AND THEN WE CAN, YOU KNOW, COME AND TALK ABOUT UNITY, ABOUT ACCEPTANCE AND ALL OF, THAT BUT PEOPLE ARE THREATENED.

PEOPLE HEAR ISRAELI LEADERS SAYING THAT THERE WOULD BE ANOTHER KNOCK VA, THAT THOSE THINGS WOULD NEVER HAVE STAYED AND THEN I COME AND TALK ABOUT PEACE WITH THEM, I DON'T SOUND AUTHENTIC.

I HAVE TRIED THIS OVER AND OVER AND I HAVE TRIED IT AND EXPLAINED TO THEM, I DO IT FOR YOU.

YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITHOUT RESENTMENT AND VICTIM HOOD FOR YOURSELF.

IT DOESN'T COME NATURALLY FOR PEOPLE.

AND THE WORLD HAS ABANDONED THEM.

PRESIDENT BIDEN, WHICH I ADMIRE, WHEN HE CAME, I WAS SO RELIEVED, YOU KNOW, AND I WAS REALLY HOPING AT LEAST HE WILL DO SMALL THINGS.

HE PROMISED TO OPEN THE -- HE COULDN'T, THE PALESTINIAN OFFICE IN WASHINGTON, D.C., IS STILL CLOSED.

HE DID NOTHING, AND THEN HE PUT ALL HIS ENERGY IN SAUDI ARABIA, WHICH IS NICE.

PALESTINIANS AREN'T THERE, WHY THEY ARE INVISIBLE, BECAUSE THEY'RE QUIET.

WHY PERSONS HAVE TO DO SOMETHING SO CRAZY TO BE SEEN.

FELT IN WASHINGTON THIS SUMMER THAT AMERICANS ARE WAITING FOR A CRISIS TO STEP IN, BUT AS LONG AS THE SITUATION IS UNDER CONTROL, WHICH WAS NOT UNDER CONTROL FOR PALESTINIANS, FOR ISRAEL, IT WAS, SETTLERS ARE EXPANDING.

SETTLERS ARE GOING CRAZY THAT THEY WILL STEP IN.

SO HAMAS, NATURALLY, WE HAVE TO TAKE THE AGENCY FROM HAMAS BY SHOWING ALTERNATIVE TO THE PEOPLE.

>> AND YOU ARE A DIRECT VICTIM OF HAMAS'S TERROR.

YOUR PARENTS HAVE BEEN KILLED.

WHERE DO YOU SEE THE SOLUTION?

>> SO YOU KNOW, THE BILLIONS IN MILITARY AID DID NOT KEEP MY PARENT THES SAFE.

THAT'S THE TRUTH, AND I THINK IF I WANT FOR MY FAMILY IN ISRAEL AND MY FRIENDS IN ISRAEL TO BE SAFE, THERE NEEDS TO BE SKIND O A POLITICAL SOLUTION.

SO THE EFFORTS SHOULD GO IN THAT DIRECTION.

IN THE IMMEDIATE TERM, I THINK -- AND I DON'T WANT TO MAKE A COMPARISON BETWEEN THE TWO SIDES BUT THERE ARE VERY EXTREME IDEAS ON BOTH SIDES, AND I EXPECT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY AND PEOPLE LIVING OUTSIDE OF THE MIDDLE EAST TO REALIZE THAT THEY SHOULD DRIVE A WEDGE BETWEEN THE VERY EXTREME IDEAS OF HAMAS AND THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, AND ALSO DRIVE A WEDGE BETWEEN THE VERY EXTREME RIGHT WINGED IDEOLOGY IN ISRAEL, AND THE ISRAELI PEOPLE, AND IT'S -- I KNOW IT'S SLIGHTLY MORE COMPLICATED THAN THE SLOGAN THAT PEOPLE ARE CHANTING, BUT IT'S NOT THAT MUCH COMPLICATED, AND SO PEOPLE SHOULD REALIZE THAT VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN ISRAEL, PALESTINE WANT TO LIVE THEIR LIFE AT PEACE, AND THEY WANT THEIR KIDS TO PLAY FOOTBALL.

IT'S NOT -- AGAIN, FOR ME IT'S LIKE WE'RE STATING THE OBVIOUS THAT PEOPLE ARE HUMAN BEINGS.

THIS IS NOT A CRAZY MESSAGE.

>> WELL, YOU TWO HAVE CLEARLY DEMONSTRATED THAT, RECOGNIZED THAT, YOU'RE LIVING IT.

YOU'RE ACTING IT, AND YOU'RE COMING TO TELL US AND THE WORLD ABOUT IT, AND IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO HAVE THIS DIALOGUE, AND I REALLY ADMIRE YOUR COURAGE AND YOUR COMMITMENT.

SO MAGEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH, AND HAMZE, THANK YOU IS MUCH FOR COMING IN.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHRISTIANE.

>> SUCH BRAVE WARRIORS FOR PEACE.

>>> AND NOW THE REAL CLIMATE WORK BEGINS AFTER A MAJOR DEAL STRUCK WEDNESDAY IN DUBAI, MORE THAN 200 COUNTRIES MUST START TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THEIR PROMISE TO TRANSITION AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS.

THE U.N.

CLIMATE SUMMIT KNOWN AS C COP28 WAS HE RECALLED HERALDED AS A GREAT SUCCESS BY THE UAE.

VULNERABLE ISLAND NATIONS SEE LOOPHOLES AND WORRY THIS ISN'T BEING TACKLED EARLY ENOUGH.

ALOK SHARMA IS A BRITISH MP WHO WAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE COP26 SUMMIT IN GLASS GOE TWO YEARS AGO AND I ASKED HIM WHAT'S BEEN ACHIEVED SINCE HE HOSTED AT THAT TIME?

>> ALOK SHARMA WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> SO IN THE COLD LIGHT OF DAY, AT THE END OF THIS VERY, VERY TENSE NEGOTIATION, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR VERDICT.

THE U.N.

CLIMATE CHIEF SAID THIS IS A CLIMATE LIFELINE, NOT THE FINISH LINE.

SO VITAL, BUT NOT ALL THAT WE WANTED.

>> WELL, CHRISTIANE, WE MADE SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS AT COP28, AND IF I JUST GO BACK TO COP26, IT WAS THE FIRST TIME IN 26 COPS WE GOT LANGUAGE FOR THE FIRST TIME ON PHASE DOWN OF COAL.

HERE WE WENT EVEN FURTHER, WE GOT LANGUAGE ON THE TRANSITION AWAY FROM ALL FOSSIL FUELS.

OF COURSE MANY OF US WOULD HAVE LIKED LANGUAGE VERY CLEAR LANGUAGE ON PHASE OUT OF FOSSIL FUELS, BUT I CERTAINLY THINK THIS DOES SPELL THE BEGINNING OF THE END OF THE FOSSIL FUEL ERA.

I'LL MAKE THIS ONE POINT, WHICHEVER COP YOU TALK ABOUT, THESE ARE JUST WORDS ON A PAGE, AND FOR THEM TO HAVE REAL MEANING, IT NOW NEEDS COUNTRIES AND COMPANIES TO STEP FORWARD AND DELIVER WITH REAL ACTION, AND SO THE PROOF OF THE PUDDING WILL BE IF IN A YEAR FROM NOW WE'RE SITTING HERE AND DISCUSSING THE PROGRESS BEING MADE OR WHETHER IN FACT, PEOPLE HAVE JUST DISREGARDED INTERNATIONAL COMMITMENTS THEY'VE MADE.

>> AND THERE IS A DEADLINE FOR A YEAR TO REGROUP TO SEE WHAT PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE AHEAD OF THE NEXT COP OR, WELL, IT IS THE NEXT COP, BUT THE QUESTION I HAVE THEN IS GIVEN THE FACT THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED THE PHASE DOWN OF COAL, DONE IN GLASGOW, PART OF THE UNITED KINGDOM, AND THIS VERY UK GOVERNMENT DID NOT DELIVER AND ACTUALLY OPENED A NEW COAL MINE, TALKED ABOUT OPENING NEW DRILLING IN THE NORTH SEA, HOW MUCH CAN WE DEPEND ON GOVERNMENTS TO DO THE RIGHT THING AS YOU JUST SUGGESTED?

>> IT'S VITALLY IMPORTANT THAT -- >> YOU AGREE WITH ME, RIGHT, THIS COUNTRY ITSELF BACKED DOWN FROM WHAT YOU ACHIEVED AT COP26.

>> WELL, I WAS VERY CLEAR AT THE TIME WHEN THE DECISION WAS MADE ON GIVING PERMISSION FOR A NEW COAL MINE, THAT WAS NOT A POSITIVE THING, AND IT DOES HAVE AN IMPACT IN TERMS OF OUR INTERNATIONAL REPUTATION.

AS IT HAPPENS THAT COAL MINE HAS NOT YET BEEN OPENED, AND WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT WILL EVER BE OPENED, BUT THE MESSAGE IT SENDS, THE RHETORIC IS UNFORTUNATE, AND WE'VE HAD SOME MORE OF THAT MORE RECENTLY, SO IN THE CONVERSATIONS THAT I'VE HAD WITH OUR INTERNATIONAL PARTNERS, THERE HAS BEEN CONCERN THAT THE UK HAS SOMEHOW MOVED AWAY FROM THE HIGH POINT OF OUR INTERNATIONAL CLIMATE DIPLOMACY AT COP26, AND I KNOW THAT MANY OF OUR CLOSEST PARTNERS WANT US TO BE BACK AT THE TOP TABLE LEADING DOMESTICALLY AND LEADING INTERNATIONALLY.

>> THE BIG LEADER IN THE WORLD IS GENERALLY CONSIDERED TO BE THE UNITED STATES.

IT HAD BEEN THE MOST POLLUTED COUNTRY, NOW I BELIEVE CHINA IS THE MOST POLLUTING COUNTRY.

SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN KERRY IS PRESIDENT BIDEN'S CLIMATE CZAR, AND IT APPEARS HE LEVERAGED HIS CONTACTS, HE SPOKE DIRECTLY WITH THE SAUDI ENERGY MINISTER, WITH THE CHINESE COUNTERPART THAT HE HAS ON THIS BECAUSE THE SAUDI AND OPEC COUNTRIES WERE THREATENING NOT EVEN TO TALK ABOUT THIS TRANSITION.

HOW IMPORTANT IS IT FOR AMERICA NOT JUST TO BE AT THE TABLE BUT TO REALLY THROW ITS WEIGHT BEHIND THIS.

>> I GOT TO KNOW JOHN KERRY VERY WELL OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS.

I'M A HUGE FAN OF JOHN'S AND HE WAS INCREDIBLY HELPFUL AT COP26 AND I'M SURE HE'LL HAVE PLAYED A CRITICAL ROLE AT COP28 ALSO.

WHAT ULTIMATELY MATTER IS WHAT DO COUNTRIES DO?

WHAT DOES THE UK DO?

WHAT DOES CHINA DO?

AND THIS IS CRITICAL POINT FOR ME, UNTIL AND UNLESS COUNTRIES ARE PREPARED TO ACT, WE WILL NOT SEE THE PROGRESS THAT WE NEED.

YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ALL OF US WANT TO SEE IS KEEPING ALIVE THE PROSPECT OF LIMITING GLOBAL WARMING TO 1.5 DEGREES.

WE'RE NOT THERE YET.

WE NEED TO SEE MUCH FASTER PROGRESS.

>> AND WHILE WE AWAIT THAT PROGRESS, NEXT WE TURN TO ONE OF AMERICA EAST MOST BRILLIANT LYRICISTS, TARIQ TROTTER OF "THE ROOTS" BETTER KNOWN AS BLACK THOUGHT.

THE GRAMMY WINNING ARTIST HAS WOWED AUDIENCES FOR DECADES.

SOME MUSIC CRITICS CONTEND HE'S ONE OF THE GREATEST RAPPERS OF ALL TIME.

NOW BLACK THOUGHT IS OUT WITH A MEMOIR EXAMINING A LIFE THAT BEGAN WITH TRAGEDY, BOTH HIS MOTHER AND FATHER WERE MURDERED.

THE BOOK IS CALLED "THE UPCYCLED SELF" AND HE DISCUSSES IT NOW WITH HARI SREENIVASAN.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

TARIQ TROTTER KNOWN AS BLACK THOUGHT TO MOST OF US WHO HAVE LISTENED TO HIM THROUGH THE YEARS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

FIRST OF ALL, CONGRATULATIONS ON THIS BOOK.

I AM NOT SURPRISED THAT YOU'RE VENTURING OUT INTO THIS SORT OF WRITTEN WORD EXPRESSION.

W WHAT DOES "THE UPCYCLED SELF" MEAN?

>> I'M FROM PHILADELPHIA FROM A SPECIFIC PLACE AND TIME THERE WHERE YOU HAD TO SORT OF MOVE THROUGH LIFE WITH A LAYER OF SCAR -- OF CALLUS, RIGHT?

OF SCAR TISSUE ALMOST AS A PROTECTIVE SORT OF THING.

YOU KNOW, AND IT SERVES A PURPOSE AT ONE TIME IN YOUR LIFE, OR AT LEAST IT MAY.

AS WE EVOLVE, AS WE MATURE, AS WE MOVE ON IN LIFE, YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS NO LONGER SERVE US IN THE SAME WAY.

SO "THE UPCYCLED SELF," IT SPEAKS TO THE WISDOM IT TAKES TO RECOGNIZE WHEN TO, YOU KNOW, LEAVE A THING IN THE PAST, TO ADAPT AWAY OR, YOU KNOW, TO MOVE FORWARD IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

>> YOU START OUT THIS BOOK WITH SOMETHING I SUSPECT ANYBODY WOULD WANT TO LEAVE IN THE PAST, AND IT'S A HORRENDOUS STORY OF YOU SETTING YOUR HOUSE ON FIRE, AS A LITTLE KID PLAYING WITH TOYS, BEING A CURIOUS KID AND STARTING A FIRE WITH YOUR TV.

WHAT WERE SOME OF THE REPERCUSSIONS OF THAT EVENT?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, THE BOOK ACTUALLY BEGINS WITH THE FIRE.

IT TOOK PLACE WHEN I WAS 6 YEARS OLD.

I BURNED MY, YOU KNOW, MY FAMILY HOME DOWN, AND YEAH, I THINK THE STORY TO FOLLOW THAT PUTS YOU INTO THE MIND OF A -- YOU KNOW, THE STORY IS TOLD IN THE SPIRIT OF THE PHOENIX.

I THINK I VERY MUCH EMERGED, YOU KNOW, FROM THE FLAMES.

SO IT BEGINS WITH THE FIRE, EVEN THOUGH THAT WASN'T MY FIRST TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE, EVEN AT THAT YOUNG AGE, IT WAS, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A WATERSHED MOMENT IN THAT WAY, AND IT WAS A MOMENT -- IT WAS MY EARLIEST MEMORY OF A TIME AFTER WHICH, YOU KNOW, THINGS WOULD NEVER BE THE SAME.

YOU KNOW, BUT TALK ABOUT JUST CURIOSITY, RIGHT, OF A CHILD AND THE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF GRACE AND WISDOM THAT IT TOOK MY MOTHER, YOU KNOW, FOR HER TO EXTEND AND NOT COME HOME, YOU KNOW, AFTER HAVING LOST EVERYTHING AND SORT OF, YOU KNOW, LOSE IT.

HER MAIN CONCERN WAS THAT NO ONE HAD BEEN HURT.

AND YOU KNOW, I WASN'T REP REPRIMANDED, I WASN'T PUNISHED IN THE WAY THAT I'D EXPECTED TO BE.

AND I THINK THERE'S BEAUTY AND THERE WAS GREAT VALUE IN THAT, AND MY MOTHER SORT OF RECOGNIZING THAT IT WAS MY CURIOSITY, AND IT WAS MY, YOU KNOW, IMAGINATION THAT LED TO, YOU KNOW, TO THE EVENT.

SO SHE WAS ABLE TO HELP ME TO ENCOURAGE ME TO LEAN INTO THAT CURIOSITY AND INTO THAT IMAGINATION BY GETTING INTO THE ARTS.

>> SO WHAT DID THAT DO TO YOUR MOM, DO YOU THINK?

I MEAN, BECAUSE SHE HAD WORKED SO HARD TO -- YOUR FATHER HAD BEEN MURDERED EARLIER, AND SHE WAS RAISING YOU TWO, AND SHE'S BUILT ALL THESE THINGS.

SHE'S SAVED UP, SHE'S KIND OF BUILT SOMETHING NORMAL FOR THE TWO OF YOU, AS NORMAL AS CAN BE, AND THEN TO LITERALLY SEE IT GO UP IN SMOKE, WHAT DOES THAT DO TO HER PSYCHE?

WHAT DID YOU FIND OUT OVER TIME?

>> IT REALLY -- I MEAN, OVER TIME I CAME TO REALIZE JUST THE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF STRENGTH AND, YOU KNOW, RESILIENCE THAT SHE HAD BECAUSE YOU THINK BACK, YOU KNOW, WHEN SHE LOST MY FATHER, MY FATHER WAS VERY YOUNG.

HE WAS MAYBE 26.

MY MOTHER WAS STILL VERY YOUNG.

THERE'S NO WAY THAT SHE COULD HAVE FULLY RECOVERED BECAUSE I THINK MAYBE -- MAYBE FOUR YEARS OR SO HAD PASSED, IF THAT.

SHE WAS -- THE WHOLE FAMILY WAS STILL VERY MUCH IN THE GRIEVING PROCESS.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU KNOW, SO THIS WAS SORT OF, YOU KNOW, BACK-TO-BACK LOSS IN THAT WAY THAT, YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT SHOULD HAVE AND COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, BEEN DEVASTATING, BUT IT WASN'T IN MANY WAYS.

>> SO WHO WERE THE MEN THAT YOU LOOKED AT AS ROLE MODELS OR FATHER FIGURES DURING THIS IMPRESSIONABLE TIME?

>> MY EARLIEST EXAMPLES OF MANHOOD, YOU KNOW, ASIDE FROM WHAT I SAW IN MY GRANDPARENTS, LIKE IN MY, YOU KNOW, MY FATHER'S FATHER, WHO I SAW RARELY.

AND MY MOTHER'S STEPFATHER WHO I REFERRED TO AS MY GRANDFATHER.

THEY WERE SORT OF THE EXAMPLES.

BUT THEN THERE WERE, YOU KNOW, THE GENTLEMEN THAT WERE IN MY MOTHER'S LIFE, PEOPLE THIS MY MOTHER WOULD DATE.

MY MOTHER'S MALE FRIENDS, A COLORFUL CAST OF CHARACTERS.

YOU KNOW, SET MANY EXAMPLES.

SOME WERE GOOD EXAMPLES, SOME WERE BAD, YOU KNOW, BUT THAT WAS SORT OF WHAT I HAD, AND I HAD, AGAIN, MY OLDER BROTHER WHO FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES WAS AWAY FROM THE FAMILY BECAUSE HE SPENT, YOU KNOW, HE ESSENTIALLY CAME TO ADULTHOOD IN THE JUVENILE JUSTICE SYSTEM, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, GRADUATED.

>> YOUR MOM FIGURED OUT SOMEHOW THAT YOUR CURIOSITY ALSO TRANSLATED INTO THE ABILITY FOR YOU TO EXPRESS YOURSELF ARTISTICALLY, AND SHE PUSHED YOU INTO THAT, HOW DID SHE DO THAT?

>> I THINK THE EARLIEST INDICATION OF HER SORT OF UNDERSTANDING THAT THING, THAT DYNAMIC, WAS, YOU KNOW, JUST IN HER ENCOURAGING ME TO TAKE ART CLASSES, I THINK, IN THE SUMMER.

WELL, YOU KNOW, EVEN BEFORE I TOOK VISUAL ART CLASSES, MY MOTHER SHE SIGNED ME UP FOR CHOIR AND, YOU KNOW, SHE'D ALWAYS ENCOURAGE ME TO SORT OF LEAN INTO MUSIC.

WHEN SHE FOUND OUT THAT VISUAL ART WAS SORT OF MY THING, THEN SHE WAS REALLY JUST SUPER SUPPORTIVE OF THAT.

YEAH, SHE AT EVERY TURN SHE WOULD REGISTER ME FOR A THING, ANYTHING THAT WAS FREE I WAS DEFINITELY GOING TO DO, BUT YOU KNOW, ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE -- ANYTHING WE COULD AFFORD OR SAVE UP FOR, SHE ALSO WOULD ENCOURAGE.

>> YOU ALSO ARE, YOU KNOW, VERY VULNERABLE IN THIS BOOK, AND YOU WRITE ABOUT SOME VERY PAINFUL MOMENTS IN TERMS OF YOUR MOM.

YOU BASICALLY HAVE KIND OF A SCENE THAT YOU PLAY OUT, AND IT'S TO TRY TO ESSENTIALLY RESCUE HER FROM WHAT WOULD BE A CRACK HOUSE.

WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

>> I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT WAS -- THAT MAY HAVE BEEN -- I MEAN, I THINK ABOUT LOW POINTS OF MY LIFE, YOU KNOW, DARK MOMENTS, YOU KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW THAT I'VE EVER BEEN AS RESIGNED, AS, YOU KNOW, JUST SAD AND DOWN, BAD AS I WAS IN THAT MOMENT.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK I'VE GRAPPLED WITH OVER THE YEARS.

IN THAT MOMENT, YOU KNOW, I WENT TO GO AND -- WE HAD BEEN LOOKING FOR MY MOM FOR A PERIOD OF DAYS, YOU KNOW A COUPLE OF DAYS HAD GONE BY, AND I TRACKED HER DOWN, AND SHE WAS IN A DRUG HOUSE, AND YEAH, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT I WAS SHOWING UP LIKE THE CAVALRY.

I WAS THERE TO, YOU KNOW, SAVE MY MOM, TAKE HER OUT OF THIS PLACE, AND IT WAS THE HARD -- I HAD TO ACCEPTED THE HARSH REALITY OF JUST, YOU KNOW, THE MATTER OF FACT THAT SHE IN THAT MOMENT PREFERRED TO REMAIN, RIGHT?

SHE DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE.

SO I COULDN'T CONVINCE HER TO LEAVE, AND IT WAS -- YEAH, THAT WAS -- IT WAS JUST A SUPER GUT WRENCHING MOMENT FOR ME AS A YOUNG PERSON, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I WAS -- AS I RECALL, I MAY HAVE BEEN -- I WAS 14, YOU KNOW, 13 OR 14 YEARS OLD.

>> LATER IN THE BOOK, YOU'RE NOT LIVING WITH YOUR MOM.

YOU'RE SOMEPLACE ELSE.

HOW DID YOU FIND OUT THAT YOUR MOTHER WAS DEAD?

>> YEAH.

MY MOTHER WAS MURDERED WHEN I WAS -- I THINK I HAD JUST TURNED 16 OR SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 15 AND 16, MY MOTHER WAS MURDERED.

I MOVED OUT OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA TO MICHIGAN TO SOUTH FIELD, MICHIGAN, RIGHT OUTSIDE DETROIT TO STAY WITH AN UNCLE, ONE OF MY FATHER'S BROTHERS WHO I'D NEVER MET.

JUST BAZ THE STREETS HAD GOT SO CRAZY, MY NEIGHBORHOOD WAS CRAZY.

LOTS OF MY FRIENDS WERE BEING MURDERED, OR YOU KNOW, SENT TO PRISON.

IT WAS -- YOU KNOW, IT WAS THE MIDDLE OF 1980s DRUG CRACK EPIDEMIC AND EVERYTHING THAT SORT OF CAME ALONG WITH IT.

SO MY FAMILY HAD SENT ME TO MICHIGAN FOR A WHILE, AND YOU KNOW, IT DIDN'T WORK OUT IN MICHIGAN, BUT WHEN I CAME BACK TO PHILLY, IT WAS -- WE WERE -- WE HAD AGREED THAT I WOULDN'T RETURN TO MY OLD NEIGHBORHOOD.

I WASN'T LIVING WITH MY MOTHER, I WAS STAYING IN AN APARTMENT THAT MY GRANDPARENTS OWNED.

SHE WAS SORT OF LIVING HER LIFE AND I WAS LIVING MINE.

I HAD ZOOSCHOOL, I HAD WORK, DA AND WEEKS WOULD GO BY WITHOUT US SEEING ONE ANOTHER.

WE WOULD SPEAK ON THE PHONE.

I REMEMBER THERE WAS A PERIOD DURING WHICH A FEW DAYS HAD GONE BY WHERE NO ONE IN THE FAMILY HAD HEARD FROM OR SEEN MY MOTHER.

WHICH ALSO, AGAIN, WASN'T OUT OF THE NORM, RIGHT, OVER A PERIOD OF DAYS THROUGH THAT PROCESS OF ELIMINATION, MY MOTHER WAS IDENTIFIED AS A JANE DOE WHO HAD, YOU KNOW, TURNED UP IN THE MORGUE.

SO YEAH, AND THE WAY I FOUND OUT, I MEAN, IT WAS -- I DON'T KNOW, I THINK MY WHOLE FAMILY, YOU KNOW, EVEN BY THAT POINT HAD BECOME A BIT NUMB TO JUST EXPERIENCES THAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE, YOU KNOW, LIFE SHATTERING, TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE FOR OTHER PEOPLE, WE WERE JUST SO USED TO LOSS AND GRIEF THAT I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY PULLED ANY PUNCHES.

I DON'T KNOW THAT -- I THINK, YOU KNOW, THEY -- MY AUNT, AS I RECALL, MY AUNT AND MY GRANDMOTHER, MY GRANDMOTHER AND HER SISTER JUST CONFIRMED WITH ME THAT THE BODY, THE JANE DOE THAT HAD BEEN, YOU KNOW, FOUND THAT WE SUSPECTED WAS MY MOTHER, YES, THAT WAS.

DOWN, YOU KNOW, WE STARTED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE ARRANGEMENTS.

IT WAS WILD.

I DON'T REMEMBER HAVING SHED A AERO TEAR DURING MY MOTHER'S DEATH UNTIL I SAW HER BODY BEING LOWERED INTO THE GROUND.

>> AT THAT TIME YOU'RE ALSO AT CREATIVE ARTS HIGH SCHOOL, A PHILADELPHIA HIGH SCHOOL FOR CREATIVE AND PERFORMING ARTS, CAPA, WE KNOW WHO THEY ARE NOW, BUT WHO WAS IN THAT HIGH SCHOOL AT THE TIME THAT WAS I GUESS YOUR COMPETITION, YOUR CLASSMATES, YOUR PEERS THAT WERE ALSO PERFORMERS THAT WENT ON TO BE MORE SUCCESSFUL?

>> I WENT TO THAT SCHOOL, WHICH WAS SORT OF PHILADELPHIA'S VERSION OF LAGUARDIA IN NEW YORK CITY, OR YOU KNOW, LIKE FAME.

IT WAS LIKE FAME OF THE TV SERIES AND THE FILM, AND YEAH, I WAS A VISUAL ARTS MAJOR.

THERE WERE JUST HAVEVERY MANY SINGERS AND INSTRUMENTALISTS THERE WHO WERE ALREADY FORCES TO BE RECKONED WITH IN THEIR OWN RIGHT.

QUEST LOVE, HE AND I MET THERE AND STARTED THE ROOTS.

BUT THERE WAS ALSO BOYS TO MEN WHO BEFORE THEY CAME TOGETHER AS BOYS TO MEN WERE PARTS OF OTHER MALE ENSEMBLES, JUST BEAUTIFUL, YOU KNOW, HARMONIES AND SORT OF -- WALKING THROUGH THE HALLS OF THAT SCHOOL MADE ME FEEL THE WAY IT MUST HAVE FELT, YOU KNOW, LIKE IN THE DAYS OF DOO WOP, ANY GIVEN MOMENT SOMEONE WOULD BREAK INTO SONG.

YOU'D TURN THE CORNER AND THERE'S BE JUAN AND NATE WORKING ON A HARMONY.

IT WAS A HUGE CONFIDENCE BUILDER FOR ME TO SEE KIDS I KNEW GOING ONWARD AND UPWARD.

>> HOW DID YOU AND AMIR QUESTLOVE FIND EACH OTHER?

>> WE FOUND EACH OTHER IN THE PRINCIPAL'S OFFICE WHERE WE WERE -- IT PROBABLY WASN'T THE FIRST TIME WE, YOU KNOW, WERE IN THE SPACE TOGETHER B, BUT WE WE LIKE TWO SHIPS, YOU KNOW, PASSING EACH OTHER AT SEA IN THE NIGHT USUALLY, AND IT WAS -- IN THIS INSTANCE, I THINK I WAS GOING.

I WAS ON MY WAY OUT ON A SUSPENSION, WHICH, YOU KNOW, I GOT SUSPENDED SOMETIMES.

I HAD DONE SOMETHING.

I WAS BEING SUSPENDED FROM SCHOOL, SO I WAS IN THE OFFICE AND QUEST WALKED IN.

I THINK HE WAS BRINGING LIKE FLOWERS AND APPLES TO THE FACULTY, AND HE HAD ON A JACKET, A HAND PAINTED DENIM JACKET, WHICH WAS ONE OF MY SIDE HUSTLES AT THE TIME WAS I WOULD DO HAND PAINTED DENIM, LIKE, YOU KNOW, JEANS AND JACKETS, AND I WOULD SELL THEM REALLY OUT OF MY LOCKER.

SO THE JACKET THAT HE WORE THAT DAY AND I THINK MAYBE HIS NECKLACE TOO THAT HE HAD ON WAS SORT OF THE GATEWAY TO A DYNAMIC THAT WOULD GROW WHERE, YOU KNOW, I WAS ABLE TO PUT HIM ON TO PARTS OF -- ELEMENTS OF THE CULTURE, AND HIP-HOP MUSIC THAT HE HADN'T BEEN EXPOSED TO YET AND VICE VERSA, AND YOU KNOW, WE BECAME AN ODD COUPLE, AND WE REMAINED AS SUCH.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, MAYBE BOTH OF US HAD A DESIRE TO -- FOR BROTHERHOOD, TO EXPERIENCE THAT BROTHERHOOD.

EVEN THOUGH I HAD A BROTHER, I STILL HADN'T REALLY EXPERIENCED THAT DYNAMIC IN THE WAY THAT OTHER SIBLINGS HAD.

IT WAS GREAT, YEAH, TO HAVE A BROTHER AT THAT TIME.

AND THEN OUR RELATIONSHIP EVOLVED INTO SOMETHING ELSE WHEN IT BECAME A BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP, AND IT EVOLVED INTO NOW WHAT IS A MARRIAGE.

WE WENT FROM BROTHERHOOD TO MARRIAGE.

>> I WONDER, YOU FORMED THIS GROUP, AT THE TIME IT WASN'T CALLED THE ROOTS, RIGHT?

>> BEFORE WE WERE CALLED THE ROOTS, WE WERE CALLED SQUARE ROOTS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

SO SQUARE ROOTS, AND I WONDER, THE SQUARE ROOTS, THE TYPE OF INFLUENCES THAT WERE MIXING TO MAKE THE TYPE OF MUSIC THAT YOU WANTED TO MAKE, AND PUT THAT IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING AT THE TIME BECAUSE WHAT WE SEE OF THE ROOTS NOW, WHICH IS A MIX OF SO MANY DIFFERENT INFLUENCES, IS NOT WHAT WAS KIND OF PLAYING ON THE STREETS AND THE CAR STEREOS AS YOU WERE GROWING UP AND THIS GROUP WAS STARTING.

♪ ♪ >> YEAH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A HUGE CHALLENGE BECAUSE NOT ONLY DID WE NOT, KWYOU KNOW -- DIDN'T LOOK, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE SAME AESTHETIC AS OUR CONTEMPORARIES AT THE TIME, NOR DID WE SOUND OR FEEL -- NOR DID LIKE OUR MUSIC SOUND OR FEEL LIKE THEIRS.

SO IN A MIXED TAPE, MIXED RADIO SHOW ERA, THE ROOTS MUSIC SORT OF STOOD OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB.

AND IT'S WILD THAT IT STOOD OUT IN ITS MUSICALITY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT WAS LIKE INSTRUM INSTRUMENTATION, AND IT JUST DIDN'T FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE STANDARD AT THAT TIME, IT JUST FELT MORE ELECTRONIC.

AND YOU KNOW, WE HAD TO FIGHT TO REPRESENT THOSE INFLUENCES, RITE, RI RIGHT, IN ORDER TO, YOU KNOW, EXPAND SORT OF THE PALATE OF THE CULTURE.

IT'S TAKEN SOME TIME, BUT I THINK OVER TIME THE ROOTS HAS BEEN HUGELY RESPONSIBLE FOR REESTABLISHING THAT STANDARD.

ANDD NOW YOU SEE FOLK WHO IS GO OUT TO TOUR, TO DO GIG, STUDIO SESSIONS, YOU RARELY SEE EVEN WITHIN THE REALM OF HIP-HOP PEOPLE WHO DON'T USE LIVE INSTRUMENTATION.

♪ >> IS THERE -- YOU HAVE BEEN IN SO MANY DIFFERENT FORMATS.

YOU WRITE ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU WERE A GRAFFITI ARTIST, AT THE TIME THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED VANDALISM DEPENDING ON WHO SAW YOUR WORK, RIGHT?

YOU'VE DONE VISUAL ARTS.

YOU'VE BEEN RHYMING FOR DECADES.

HERE YOU ARE WRITING A BOOK.

I MEAN, WHAT IS IT ABOUT SELF-EXPRESSION THAT KEEPS YOU WANTING TO TRY IT IN ANOTHER FORMAT?

>> IT'S THE CHALLENGE OF TAKING ON A NEW SORT OF FORMAT, WORKING IN A NEW MEDIUM OF ALLOWING, YOU KNOW, ONE DISCIPLINE TO INFORM ANOTHER.

IT KEEPS ME ENGAGED, AND YOU KNOW, I ALWAYS MEET,DOWN, FOLKS SOMETIMES IT'S ONE PERSON.

SOMETIMES IT'S TEN, SOMETIMES IT'S MORE.

IF THERE'S ONE PERSON THAT MY WORK, MY STORY HAS RESONATED WITH IN A WAY THAT, YOU KNOW, HAS GIVEN THEM ANY DEEPER INSIGHT INTO THEMSELVES OR INTO THEIR STORY, THEN IT'S WORTH IT.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

AND THAT IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S A TWO-SIDED THERAPY, RIGHT?

LIKE THIS IS -- LIKE THIS IS -- THE WORK, THE PROCESS IS CATHARTIC FOR ME IN THAT WAY, SO YEAH, I JUST KEEP, YOU KNOW, ACCEPTING NEW CHALLENGES BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING THAT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE THAT I'VE SEEN COME FROM PHILADELPHIA AND TRY A THING AND WIN, AND THOSE WHO HAVE WON, ALL THOSE MANY PEOPLE WHO I'M ABLE TO LIST WHO HAVE WON, THEY HAVE WON BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GIVE UP, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

SO YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE ANYTHING, ANY CHALLENGE THAT I TAKE ON AS LONG AS I STICK TO IT, I'M GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT THROUGH TO FRUITION.

>> THE BOOK IS CALLED "THE UPCYCLED SELF", A MEMOIR ON THE ART OF BECOMING WHO WE ARE, AUTHOR TARIQ TROTTER, ALSO KNOWN AS BLACK THOUGHT FROM THE ROOTS.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU, THIS HAS BEEN AWESOME, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> NEVER GIVE UP, THAT IS SOUND ADVICE.

YOU CAN FIND HIM AND THE ROOTS ON "THE TONIGHT SHOW" WITH JIMMY FALLON.

THEY ARE THE HOUSE BAND.

>>> AND FINALLY, AS AWARDS SEASON ROLLS AROUND AGAIN, ONE UNFORGETTABLE PERFORMANCE IS SURE TO BE A CONTENDER.

ACTOR GAR SELL BERNAL'S TURN AS THE REAL LIFE MEXICAN WRESTLER WHO BROKE CULTURAL TABOOS.

CASSANDRO COMES FROM CAMP DRAG PERFORMANCE.

MY COLLEAGUE SPOKE WITH HIM AND HE DESCRIBES THE IMPACT THAT PERFORMING PUBLICLY AS THE OUTRAGEOUS CASSANDRO HAD ON THE PERSONAL LIFE OF THE WRESTLE HER HIMSELF NAMED SAÚL.

>> SAÚL, THE CHARACTER IS USED TO THIS DUALITY, YOU KNOW, TO PLAY THIS THESE DIFFERENT ROLES DEPENDING ON WHERE HE IS AND WITH HIS BOYFRIEND AND WITH HIS MOTHER, HE ALWAYS PLAY THIS IS SECRET LIFE, YOU KNOW, YES, VERY, VERY LOVING AND VERY SUPPORTIVE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S A SECRET, OUTSIDE HE CAN'T BE KNOWN, YOU KNOW, AND SO CASSANDRO IS KIND OF THE DETONATOR FOR ALL OF THAT.

HE'S THE ONE THAT KIND OF LIKE SAYS, DOESN'T WANT TO BE IN THE SECRET ANYMORE.

>> YOU CAN CATCH CASSANDRO ON AMAZON PRIME NOW AND WATCH BIANNA'S FULL INTERVIEW WITH GAEL GARCIA BERNAL.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWS LETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.