>> O'Connell: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": I'M SUE O'CONNELL, IN FOR JIM BRAUDE.

CALL IT EGG-MAGEDDON, THE EGG-POCALYPSE, OR JUST A REAL PAIN IN THE EGG.

BUT, SERIOUSLY, EGG SELLERS SAY UP TO 90% OF THEIR SUPPLY COULD BE PULLED FROM SHELVES COME JANUARY 1st UNLESS STATE LAWMAKERS TAKE ACTION ON AN ISSUE THEY'VE SEEN COMING FOR YEARS.

BUT SO FAR THEY JUST HAVEN'T.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT WHY AHEAD.

THEN, LATER, RACISM IN QUINCY PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

A RECENT GRAD AND A TEACHER JOIN ME TO TALK ABOUT THE SOCIAL MEDIA VIDEOS THAT SPURRED A STUDENT TO WALK OUT, EMERGENCY COMMUNITY MEETINGS, AND A RENEWED PUSH FOR SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS TO DO MORE.

♪♪ >> O'Connell: AS THE SAYING GOES, YOU CAN'T MAKE AN OMELETTE WITHOUT BREAKING A FEW EGGS.

BUT SOME FARMERS ARE WARNING THERE SOON WON'T BE MANY EGGS LEFT TO BREAK IN MASSACHUSETTS.

THAT'S BECAUSE NEW STATE REGULATIONS FOR PORK, VEAL, AND EGGS GO INTO EFFECT ON JANUARY 1st, AFTER VOTERS SIGNED OFF ON THEM IN A BALLOT INITIATIVE BACK IN 2016.

AMONG THE NEW RULES, ALL EGGS SOLD IN THE STATE HAVE TO COME FROM HENS THAT HAVE AT LEAST 1.5 SQUARE FEET OF SPACE.

THE GOAL WAS TO AVOID NEEDLESS ANIMAL SUFFERING.

BUT SOME IN THE EGG INDUSTRY, AND NOW EVEN MANY ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS, SAY THE NEW STANDARDS ARE BASED ON AN OLDER WAY OF FARMING.

SO IF THEY'RE NOT UPDATED, AROUND 90% OF THE EGGS WE SEE IN SUPERMARKETS TODAY WILL NEED TO BE PULLED FROM THE SHELVES, CREATING A MASSIVE SHORTAGE.

THEY'RE ASKING THE STATE LEGISLATURE TO ADJUST THE STANDARDS BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR, ALTHOUGH LAWMAKERS HAVE KNOWN ABOUT THIS ISSUE FOR YEARS AND HAVE SHOWN FEW SIGNS OF MOVEMENT SO FAR, WITH THE TWO SEPARATE BILLS PASSED BY THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

STILL, STATE SENATOR JASON LEWIS, WHO'S BEEN LEADING THE EFFORT TO COMBINE THOSE TWO BILLS, TOLD US TODAY THAT LAWMAKERS "FULLY RECOGNIZE THE TIME SENSITIVE NATURE OF THE ISSUE."

I'M JOINED BY DAVID RADLO, A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE NEW ENGLAND BROWN EGG COUNCIL, AND "BOSTON GLOBE" POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT REPORTER EMMA PLATOFF.

>> O'Connell: WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

DAVID, I JUST WANT TO JUMP RIGHT IN HERE.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US WHAT THE BALLOT INITIATIVE, AND NOW LAW, SAYS AND WHY IT IS A PROBLEM FOR CONSUMERS?

>> IT IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE THE NATIONAL STANDARD IS 1.0 SQUARE FEET OF SPACE, WHICH ALLOWS FOR VERTICAL HOUSING.

IT IS THE NATIONAL STANDARD.

AND WE HAVE CAME AND WE KIND OF EVOLVED OVER THE YEARS.

WE WERE THE FIRST -- OUR COMPANY WAS THE FIRST TO TRANSITION FROM CAGE-FREE HOUSING, AND WE CAME UP WITH EGGLAND'S BEST CAGE-FREE AND FREE RANGE, BUT NOW WE'RE IN A STANDARD WHERE EVERYBODY IS TRANSFORMING THE WAY THEY ARE.

THE REASON IT IS A PROBLEM IS BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WAS A TECHNICAL CHANGE AND THEY WOULD GO TO 1.0, BUT THE REALITY IS THERE ARE POWERS THAT BE BOTH WITHIN AGRICULTURE, AS WELL AS IN DISPUTES WITH THE HUMANE SIDE -- I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE HUMANE SOCIETY OF THE UNITED STATES OR THE MASSACHUSETTS PREVENTION OF THE CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BECAUSE WE HAVE ALWAYS WORKED WITH THEM.

BUT WE HAD BRAD MITCHELL WHO SAID IN 2019 IN A NOTE: "WE DON'T CONSIDER CHANGING WHAT WE CONSIDER A BAD LAW BEFORE IT HAS HAD A CHANCE TO EXHIBIT ITSELF AS SUCH."

A.K.A., DESIRING THIS CRISIS SITUATION THAT WE ARE NOW, WHERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO, BECAUSE OF IN TRENCHING, AND EVERYBODY STICKING IN THEIR POSITION -- NEW ENGLAND USED TO BE WHERE YOU COULD GO AND AT 11 SLIEKS 1111:30 AT NIGHT AND GO TO WORK THE NEXT MORNING.

BUT NOW, EVEN COMMON SENSE INITIATIVES LIKE THIS, TO STOP THE POOR FROM GETTING EGGS, AND HAVING TO GO ACROSS STATE LINES TO PROVIDENCE, OR FOR THAT MATTER NASHUA OR ALBANY OR HARTFORD, IN ORDER TO GET EGGS AND BUY EVERYTHING ELSE WITH IT, IT IS ABSOLUTELY CRAZY.

>> Braude: I >> O'Connell: I WANT TO JUMP TO EMMA FOR A SECOND.

I COVERED THIS STORY IN 2016, AND EVERYTHING THAT DAVID IS SAYING PEOPLE SAID WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

TO ME, THIS IS ONE OF THE EMBLE EMBLEMATIC PARTS OF POLITICS.

SOMETIMES THEY'RE A GOOD IDEA, AND SOMETIMES THEY'RE A BAD IDEA.

WE WENT THROUGH THIS WITH MARIJUANA, AND I'M SURE WE'LL GO THROUGH IT WITH OTHERS.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT SHOWS HOW THE LAWMAKERS DRAG THEIR FEET, AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING TO HOLD THEM TO THE FIRE, THEY WON'T MOVE FORWARD.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING ABOUT WHY THIS HAS TAKEN US TO 2022 BEFORE THIS 2016 PLAN HASN'T BEEN INITIATED?

>> YEAH.

IT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

AND THE INTERESTING THING TO ME IS THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY AN ISSUE THAT EVERYBODY APPEARS TO AGREE ON.

THE EGG INDUSTRY, MANY ANIMAL WELFARE GROUPS, INCLUDING THE HUMANE IITY SOCIETY OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE MASSACHUSETTS PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS ALL WANT THE 1.0 SQUARE FEET.

AND PORK WAS ALSO A SUBJECT OF THE 2016 REFERENDUM, AND THE HOLD UP OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE HOUSE BILL AND THE SENATE BILL, AND THOSE ARE THE ISSUES BEING NEGOTIATED RIGHT NOW AND WE HOPE ARE RESOLVED BY THE END OF THE YEAR, IS OVER WHEN THE STANDARDS FOR PORK SHOULD GO INTO EFFECT.

SO IT IS ACTUALLY A WHOLE OTHER ANIMAL -- PUN INTENDED THERE -- THAT IS HOLDING UP THE PROCESS HERE.

IT IS NOT UNUSUAL WE SEE THIS FROM THE MASSACHUSETTS LEGISLATURE.

WE KNOW THAT DEADLINES COME AND GO WITHOUT THE WORK GETTING DONE IN TIME.

BUT THE SORT OF RES RESPITE THEY'RE TAKING IS AFTER THANKSGIVING, UNTIL THE BEGINNING OF THE NEW YEAR, THE LAWMAKERS ARE DONE WITH THEIR FORMER SESSIONS, AND THEY'RE IN WHAT IS CALLED AN INFORMAL SESSION.

WHICH MEANS THERE ARE SPARCELY ATTENDED MEETINGS ON THE FLOOR, AND EVEN IF THEY CAME UP WITH A CONSENSUS BILL THEY CAN SEND TO THE GOVERNOR, ANY LAWMAKER COULD SINK BY WAITING.

WE HAVE TWO WEEKS UNTIL NEW YEAR'S EVE, AND WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED.

>> O'Connell: I WANT TO MOVE FROM THE HENS TO THE PIGS.

THERE IS A STORY FROM CHRIS OL OLIVEIRA, AND HE TOLD STATE LAWMAKERS IN AN OCTOBER LETTER, QUOTE, "TO POTENTIALLY CHANGE THE DATE BECAUSE SOME COMPANIES HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO MAKE REFORMS OVER THE PAST FIVE YEARS, AND ARE LOBBYING FOR AN EXTENSION BECAUSE OF THEIR LACK OF ACTION, IS UNFAIR TO ALL OF THE FAMILY FARMS THAT HAVE BEEN ACTING IN GOOD FAITH TO PROVIDE THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS WITH HUMANELY-RAISED, BALLOT-INITIATIVE-COMPLIANT PORK."

DAVID, WHAT IS THE FEELING IN THE FARM INDUSTRY HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS?

WAS THERE ALSO A FEELING THAT SOME WOULD JUST WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS?

AND WHAT ABOUT THOSE SURROUNDING US, WHO MAY BE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OUR POOR PLANNING.

>> WELL, YES.

THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE KIND OF -- WHO ARE THINKING, GEE, MAYBE I CAN GET $10 ON A DOZEN EGGS.

WE HAVE A SUPPLY CHAIN HERE, AND WE HAVE A SUPPLY CHAIN WHERE WHEN YOU SELL TO A DISTRIBUTED, YOUR LOOKING SEVEN TO 14 DAYS IN ORDER TO SELL THE PRODUCT TO GET ON THE SHELF.

IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF WILL THERE BE DISRUPTION, BUT JUST HOW MUCH DISRUPTION.

THAT'S THE QUESTION RIGHT NOW.

>> O'Connell: AND THE OTHER CHALLENGE HERE, TOO, AND THIS IS TYPICALLY ACROSS THE WORLD, LAWMAKERS TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH CHANGES THAT ARE BEING DEMANDED BY THE CITIZENS, AND SOMETIMES BY THE TIME THEY GET TO THE PROBLEM, THE PROBLEM HAS CHANGED, OR THE SOLUTION HAS CHANGED.

AND THIS SEEMS TO BE THE CASE.

I WANT TO LOOK AT WHAT STEPHANIE HARRIS, WHO WAS THE CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR FOR THE COALITION THAT SUPPORTED THE 2016 BALLOT QUESTION, AND SHE IS NOW WITH THE ANIMAL LEGAL DEFENSE FUND.

SHE TOLD GBH NEWS IN JUNE "THE WAY THE QUESTION WAS PHRASED ON THE BALLOT HAD TO DO WITH GIVING ANIMALS ENOUGH SPACE TO STAND UP, TURN AROUND AND LIE DOWN.

AND THIS LEGISLATION FURTHERS THAT GOAL."

I DON'T THINK THERE IS DISAGREEMENT THAT IT FURTHERS THE GOAL, BUT HAS THE GOAL MOVED?

>> I THINK THOSE IN THE INDUSTRY WILL TELL YOU THAT THE STANDARD HAS SHIFTED.

MASSACHUSETTS IN 2016, WAS AN EARLY STATE TO BE LOOKING AT LEGISLATION LIKE THIS TO PUT THE QUESTION TO THE VOTERS.

AND I THINK IT STANDS TO REASON.

I THINK THE NUMBER WAS 80% OF MASSACHUSETTS VOTERS WANT WANTED TO SUPPORT AN INITIATIVE THAT ENFORCED HIGHER STANDARDS FOR THE TREATMENT OF ANIMALS.

I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE STATE REALLY CARE ABOUT.

WHAT THE INDUSTRY WILL SAY IS THEY WERE SIGNING OFF ON A STANDARD THAT DIDN'T REALLY MAKE SENSE AND DOESN'T REALLY MAKE SENSE NOW.

AND WHILE IT WAS WELL-INTENTIONED, AND IT IS A GOAL THAT THE ANIMAL WELFARE COMMUNITY SHARES, IT IS NOT THE BEST WAY TO ACHIEVE THAT GOAL.

AND NOW THE STATE LEGISLATURE HAS THE POWER TO CHANGE, AND IT MAKES A LITTLE MORE SENSE WITH THE SPECIFICS OF HOW THE INDUSTRY WORKS RIGHT NOW.

>> O'Connell: GOVERNOR BAKER HAS ALSO WEIGHED IN -- I WANT TO SHOW A TWEET FROM BAKER: "EVERYONE IS ALREADY GROCERY STORE, AND NOT ADDRESSING THIS EGG ISSUE WILL FURTHER DRIVE UP COSTS.

I URGE THE LAWMAKERS TO REACH CONSENSUS BEFORE THESE RULES GO INTO EFFECT IN JANUARY."

DAVID, WE TALK ABOUT THE PRICE OF EGGS, AND IT IS A LOW COST FOR MANY PEOPLE ON FIXED INCOMES AND ON THE LOWER END OF THE ECONOMIC MATTER, AND NOT A LUXURY ITEM BY ANY MEANS.

AND THIS PARTICULAR CONSTITUENCY AND COMMUNITY SEEMS TO BE -- WITH THE SUPPLY-CHAIN AND COVID PROBLEMS, WE SHOULD EMPHASIZE THIS WAS A PROBLEM COMING BEFORE THAT AND IS NOW MADE WORSE BECAUSE OF COVID -- THEY'RE THE ONES MOST LIKELY TO BEAR THIS BURDEN?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE IT ON THE CHIN.

THEY CAN'T JUST GET IN A CAR AND DRIVE FOR 30 MINUTES OR AN HOUR AND PICK UP THEIR GROCERIES FOR THE WEEK.

THEY'RE STUCK.

AND IT IS TERRIBLE AND IT IS HORRIFIC.

BECAUSE THEY SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE A LOW-COST PROTEIN.

AND WITHOUT A DOUBT, THE POLITICS AND INTEREST GROUPS IS UNFORTUNATELY GETTING IN THE WAY.

WE SETTLED THIS MATTER IN MAINE IN 2008/2009.

WE TRIED TO SETTLE THE MATTER IN MASSACHUSETTS.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE INTEREST GROUPS DIDN'T WANT TO SETTLE BECAUSE IT WAS A SIGN OF WEAKNESS TO SETTLE WITH HUMANE SOCIETY OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE MASSACHUSETTS SOCIETY FOR PREVENTION OF CRUELTY TO ANIMALS.

AND THE FARM BUREAU GOT IN THE WAY.

AND THIS IS WHAT YOU GET.

YOU GET A REFERENDUM AND YOU GET FIGHTING TO FIX THE REFERENDUM.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY NUTS.

>> O'Connell: DAVID, I THINK IT IS SAFE TO SAY THAT SOCIETY IS MARCHING TOWARDS A MUCH MORE HUMANE WAY OF TREATING ANIMALS, BOTH AS OUR PETS AND ALSO WHETHER OR NOT WE EAT THEM OR NOT.

OUR FAMILY HAS CUT WAY BACK ON OUR ANIMAL PRODUCTS THAT WE EAT.

AND WE'RE VERY THOUGHTFUL.

I SPEND AN AWFUL LOT FOR EGGS BECAUSE OF ISSUES LIKE THIS, AND I CAN AFFORD TO DO IT; I'M NOT EXPLAINING ABOUT IT.

ARE FARMS AND THE FOOD INDUSTRY THAT RELIES ON ANIMALS, IS THERE MERGING BELIEF THAT YOU NEED TO TAKE THE LEAD ON FINDING BETTER WAYS TO TREAT THE ANIMALS, SO CONSUMERS WILL FEEL BETTER AND WE WON'T NEED LAWS TO REQUIRE STANDARDS TO BE IMPLEMENTED.

>> WITHOUT A DOUBT, THE WHOLE INDUSTRY IS GOING CAGE-FREE.

I WROTE ABOUT THAT IN MEASUREMY BOOK.

AND WITHOUT A DOUBT, ALSO WITH THIRD-PARTY STANDARDS THAT ARE RECOGNIZED BY THE HUMANE SOCIETY, IN ORDER THAT EVERYBODY IS COUPLE WITH THE STANDARDS.

SO WHEN YOU GO TO THE GROCERY STORES, WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE GETTING THE BASE EGG, SOON TO BE CAGE-FREE, OR WHETHER YOU WANT FREE RANGE OR PASTURE-RAISED, YOU CAN BE ASSURED, WHETHER IT IS PORK, VEAL, EGGS, WHAT HAVE YOU, THEY'RE DELIVERING THE CONSUMER AN OUTSTANDING PROTEIN THAT IS ALSO HUMANE.

>> Collette: DO >> O'Connell: IS THERE GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY CAN LIVE WITH WHEN WE GET TO JANUARY?

OR CONSUMERS, AND BY THAT I MEAN CITIZENS OF MASSACHUSETTS, GOING TO HAVE TO HOLD THE FEET TO THE FIRE OF THE LAWMAKERS TO GET THIS SETTLED?

>> THIS POINT WAS MADE EARLIER, BUT IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF IF THERE WILL BE A DISRUPTION, BUT WHEN.

IF YOU'RE RUNNING A GROCERY STORE, YOU NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE STOCKING ON JANUARY 1st AND WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO GET IT FROM.

IF I HAD TO OFFER A PREDICTION, WE HAVE SEEN MASSACHUSETTS LAWMAKERS REALLY GO DOWN TO THE LINE.

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF WE SEE THIS GET RESOLVED JUST BEFORE THE HOLIDAYS OR JUST BEFORE THE NEW YEAR.

BUT IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN.

WE HAVE THE GOVERNOR PUTTING PRESSURE ON THEM.

CERTAINLY THIS IS AN ISSUE ON COSTUMERS' MINDS.

SO WE'LL HAVE TO WATCH AND SEE.

>> O'Connell: DAVID, DO YOU AGREE OR DO YOU HAVE A THIRD WAY?

>> ALL YOU NEED IS ONE REP TO STAND UP AND OBJECT.

I THINK LONGER GAME, THOUGH, YOU HAVE DISRUPTION BECAUSE OF SUPPLY-CHAIN.

AND THEY CAN PASS IT ON THE 31st OF DECEMBER, AND THERE IS GOING TO BE EGGS OFF THE SHELF.

SO IT WOULD BEHOOVE EVERYBODY TO GET THIS THING SETTLED SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

WHAT'S MY PREDICTION?

IF THEY DON'T, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A CITIZEN REVOLT ON EGGS, ABSOLUTELY.

>> O'Connell: I DON'T THINK THEY'LL BE THROWING THEM, THOUGH.

I WOULD CAUTION AGAINST ANY KIND OF CITIZEN REACTION LIKE THAT.

DAVID RADLO AND EMMA PLATOFF, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> HAPPY HOLIDAYS.

>> O'Connell: NEXT UP, A DISTURBING TREND AT SEVERAL MASSACHUSETTS SCHOOLS HAS LED TO A RECKONING AMONG STUDENTS AND SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS.

IN DANVERS, THE HIGH SCHOOL SUSPENDED ALL WRESTLING ACTIVITIES YESTERDAY AFTER AN INVESTIGATION FOUND MEMBERS OF THE TEAM USED HATEFUL AND BIASED LANGUAGE AND REFERENCED HAZING IN GROUP CHATS.

THE SUSPENSION COMES JUST OVER A MONTH AFTER THE PUBLIC LEARNED OF RACIST AND VIOLENT LOCKER ROOM RITUALS MEMBERS OF THE DANVERS HOCKEY TEAM PARTICIPATED IN LAST YEAR, INCIDENTS OFFICIALS HAD TRIED TO KEEP QUIET.

AND A FEW WEEKS BACK, 300 STUDENTS WALKED OUT OF BRAINTREE HIGH SCHOOL, VOICING COMPLAINTS OF UNADDRESSED RACISM IN THE SCHOOL AFTER AN ONLINE VIDEO SHOWED A STUDENT USING RACIST LANGUAGE.

A FEW DAYS BEFORE THAT, STUDENTS AT QUINCY HIGH SCHOOL STAGED A DEMONSTRATION, WHICH WAS PROMPTED BY AT LEAST TWO INCIDENTS INVOLVING HATE SPEECH.

IN ONE, A STUDENT REPEATEDLY USED THE "N" WORD AND GLORIFIED THE ENSLAVEMENT OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS ON VIDEO, WHICH LED TO A PHYSICAL ALTERCATION BETWEEN TWO STUDENTS IN THE SCHOOL, AND STUDENTS AND PARENTS HAVE ARGUED THE ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT DONE ENOUGH TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES.

>> IT WAS, LIKE, ATROCIOUS.

I WAS, LIKE, ACTUALLY, LIKE, FUMING.

ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS HAVE JUST BEEN PILING UP AND UP.

LIKE, THE HATE IN THE SCHOOL HAS BEEN SUCH A PROBLEM, AND IT HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED.

AT QUINCY HIGH, WE'VE BEEN HAVING A PROBLEM WHERE THE ADMINISTRATION DOES NOT TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE INCIDENTS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN OUR SCHOOL.

THEY DON'T NEED TO JUST SAY, "I HEAR YOU; I HEAR YOU."

THEY NEED TO PUT EFFORTS IN PLACE TO REALLY SHOW THAT THEY ARE HEARING THESE KIDS.

>> O'Connell: JOINING ME ARE MAYA CORREIA, A 2017 QUINCY HIGH GRADUATE AND CO-FOUNDER OF THE SCHOOL'S PERSON OF COLOR STUDENT UNION, AND JAMES IKEDA, A TEACHER AT QUINCY HIGH SCHOOL AND FOUNDING FACILITY ADVISOR OF THE SCHOOLS PERSON OF COLOR STUDENT UNION.

>> O'Connell: WELCOME TO BOTH YOU OF.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME.

>> HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> O'Connell: I WANT TO START WITH YOU.

CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT YOUR REACTION WAS AS SOMEONE WHO IS NOW OUT OF THE HIGH SCHOOL SYSTEM AND INTO ADULTHOOD, WHAT YOUR REACTION WAS WHEN YOU SAW THE INCIDENTS THAT WERE HAPPENING, AND THE REACTION THAT STUDENTS AND THE ADMINISTRATION HAD TO THEM?

>> I WAS HONESTLY VERY SURPRISED.

NOT NECESSARILY BY THE VIDEOS THEMSELVES, BECAUSE I REFUSED TO WATCH THEM, BUT FROM THE STUDENT REACTION.

WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT MUCH REACTION LAST TIME, GIVEN IT DIDN'T HAVE AS MUCH STAMINA AS IT DID.

OBVIOUSLY, WE HAD A SMALL, STILL PURPOSEFUL GATHERING, BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN IT TO THIS EXTENT, AS WELL AS FEELING LIKE THERE IS ACTUALLY GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS DONE ABOUT IT.

>> O'Connell: WHAT DO YOU THINK IN THAT CHANGED, MAYA.

BECAUSE MAY TAKE ON THIS IS, HAVING BEEN IN HIGH SCHOOL, TERRIBLE THINGS HAPPEN AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE DON'T REACT FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE ADMINISTRATION IN A SECOND, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK HAS GIVEN THE STUDENTS THE COURAGE AND THE INSPIRATION TO CONFRONT THESE ISSUES HEADON?

>> I DEFINITELY FEEL LIKE SOCIAL MEDIA HAS GIVEN POWER TO THESE KIDS.

THERE IS A LOT MORE LEARNING THAT IS BEING DONE ON SOCIAL MEDIA, AND THERE IS A LOT MORE ACCESS.

YOU KNOW, BACK THEN I WAS JUST REALLY ANGRY, AND I WOULD JUST SAY WHATEVER I FELT, BUT NOT NECESSARILY NOISE OF VERBIAGE AND HAVING THE VOCABULARY TO DISCUSS THESE THINGS AND ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON.

I THINK WITH SOCIAL MEDIA, I THINK THEY'RE MORE AWARE THAT IT IS NOT JUST TO THEM, BUT IT IS PERVASIVE AMONG EDUCATION.

>> O'Connell: JASON, MAYA OBVIOUSLY HITS THE NAIL ON THE HEAD, AND THESE ARE LONG-TERM PROBLEMS THAT HAVE BEEN HAPPENING FOR CENTURIES, UNFORTUNATELY, TRAGICALLY.

YET AT THE SAME TIME, THERE DOES SEEM TO BE SOMETHING OF A TIDE TURNING.

WE STILL DON'T HAVE MANY MEN OF COLOR WHO ARE TEACHING IN OUR PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEMSMENT WE DON'TSYSTEMS.

WE DON'T HAVE MANY PEOPLE OF COLOR TEACHING IN MINORITY/MAJORITY SCHOOL SYSTEMS.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM STUDENTS ABOUT THEIR REACTION TO THIS AND WHAT THEY'RE HOPING WILL CHANGE?

>> WELL, FOR ONE THING, I THINK ONE OF THE PEOPLE IN THAT CLIP REALLY GETS IT RIGHT, THAT IT IS NOT SO MUCH JUST ABOUT HEARING STUDENTS.

I WOULD SAY THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN HEARING STUDENTS AND STUDENTS HAVE POWER.

I THINK STUDENTS ARE ACUTELY AWARE OF THE FACT THEY DON'T HAVE POWER.

THEY ARE ACUTELY AWARE OF THE FACT THEY RELATE TO THIS INSTITUTION IN A WAY WHERE THEY FEEL THEY'RE DICTATED TO.

WHERE WHEN THEY HAVE NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES, THERE IS NOT A PLACE FOR THEM TO GO ALWAYS.

THERE ARE COMPLAINTS THAT DON'T ALWAYS HAVE A HOME, AS IT WERE.

SO I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING AT THIS POINT IS A COMBINATION OF STUDENTS THAT ARE FINDING THEIR POWER, FINDING A WAY TO GET INTO THE ROOM, A WAY TO, I SUPPOSE, GET THE EAR OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE POLICY -MAKING ABILITY.

BUT THE GAP THAT I'M STILL WAITING TO SEE CLOSED IS BETWEEN CONSULTATION AND DEMOCRATIZATION.

YOU GET A GROUP OF STUDENTS TOGETHER AND SAY THIS IS NOW THE SORT OF REPRESENTATIVE GROUP OF STUDENTS, AND WE'LL ASK YOU QUESTIONS AND WE'LL GET APPROVAL FOR MEASURES, OR WHATEVER IT IS.

WE'LL BRAINSTORM AND THAT WILL STAND IN AS STUDENTS IDEAS BEING HEARD AND STUDENT IDEAS BEING RESPECTED.

I THINK THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND THE NEXT LEVEL OF STUDENTS, AND, FRANKLY, STAFF, HAVING MORE POWER.

>> O'Connell: I WANT TO LOOK AT AN INSTAGRAM -- A POST FROM AN INSTAGRAM PAGE CALLED BLACK AT QUINCY HIGH: "I'M A MOTHER OF TWO BOYS, AND THE THINGS I'VE HEARD FROM THEM ARE RIDICULOUS.

TEACHERS THREATENING THEM TO TAKE OFF THEIR 'DO RAGS, AND MAKING SURE THEY WEREN'T HIGH, AND ASKING THEM TO TAKE THEIR HEADPHONES WHEN COUNTLESS OTHER STUDENTS ARE WEARING HEADPHONES."

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS BECAUSE ONE OF THE DIFFERENCES, AND ONE OF THE CHANGES, I THINK, IS THAT WE NOW HAVE RESEARCH AND EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THERE IS A BIAS ON HOW TEACHERS TREAT STUDENTS OF COLOR.

THAT THEY ARE TREATED DIFFERENTLY THAN WHITE STUDENTS ARE.

AND I'M JUST WONDERING IF, UM -- WHAT YOU'RE REACTION IS TO SEEING THAT SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE STILL HAPPENING IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM, AND IN YOUR SCHOOL SYSTEM, YOUR ALMA MATER, AND ALSO WHAT YOU HOPE TEACHERS AND ADMINISTRATORS WILL LEARN FROM THIS?

>> I'M DEFINITELY NOT SURPRISED, AND I DON'T SEE IT NOT BEING A PROBLEM.

LET ME REPHRASE THAT: I DON'T SEE IT NOT -- LIKE THE ISSUE OF IT BEING REDUCED ANY TIME SOON JUST BECAUSE IT IS A PROCESS.

BUT THE (indiscernable) OF BLACK CHILDREN, THEY'RE SEEN AS ELDER AND MORE AGGRESSIVE AND LOUD.

AND THEIR ACTIONS ARE MOSTLY MISINTERPRETED.

AND I THINK THAT IS BASED ON CULTURAL DIFFERENCE AND NOT TAKING THE TIME TO UNDERSTAND, LIKE, THEIR CIRCUMSTANCES, AND THE CNBC INCOMMUNITIES IN WHICH THEY'RE SERVING, THE CIRCUMSTANCES AT HOME -- THEY'RE NOT BEING ADDRESSED.

SO IF THERE IS AN ISSUE WITH A STUDENT, IT NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH IN A WAY THAT IS MORE PERSONABLE THAN DISCIPLINARY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE DISCIPLINE IS VERY REAL.

AND THE WAY YOU DISCIPLINE KIDS IN SCHOOL CAN PLACE THEM IN A PLACE WHERE THEY WANT TO REBEL AGAINST TEACHERS THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GUIDING THEM INTO SOCIETY, OR ACTUALLY TO BEING PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS OF SOCIETY IN A WAY THEY CAN BE SERVED.

>> O'Connell: I'M A BIG PROPONENT OF WE SHOULD TREAT CHILDREN LIKE CHILDREN AND TEENS LIKE TEENS, AND YOUNG ADULTS LIKE YOUNG ADULTS, BASED ON THEIR MENTAL CAPABILITIES.

AND AS AWFUL AS SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE, THEY'RE STILL CHILDREN AND TEENS.

THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR GUIDING THEM AND HELPING THEM ALONG THE WAY IS ON THE PARENTS AND THE ADULTS AND THE ADMINISTRATORS IN THEIR LIVES.

I'M WONDERING IF THIS DEVELOPMENTAL SCIENCE AND THIS ACCOUNTABILITY IS SOMETHING THAT IS A THREAD THAT INFORMS EVERYTHING THAT ADMINISTRATORS AND TEACHERS ARE DOING WHEN DEALING WITH THESE TERRIBLE ISSUES OF OVERT RACISM AND THAT SORT OF VIOLENCE WITHIN THE SCHOOL POPULATION?

>> I THINK PERHAPS NOT A THREAD GOING BACK ALL TOO FAR, BUT I THINK NOW, FOR SURE, BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF TALK IN THE SCHOOL ABOUT THE SORT OF JUSTICE PRACTICES.

AND I THINK THERE IS AN UNDERSTANDING AT THIS POINT -- IF THERE ARE TWO DEMANDS THE STUDENTS HAVE MADE ARE DIVERSIFY THE FACULTY, AND HAVE SOME KIND OF SYSTEM IN PLACE FOR DEALING WITH RACISM IN THE SCHOOLS.

IN THE CASE OF THE LATTER, MANY STUDENTS WANTED SOME KIND OF NON-PUNITIVE SYSTEM BASED ON JUST UNDERSTANDING THAT HAVING A NON-PUNITIVE SYSTEM IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

RESTORATIVE JUSTICE IS A BIG PART OF THE NEED.

I THINK THAT IS BEING OUT IN FRONT IN THIS MOST RECENT SERIES OF INCIDENTS, WHICH I'M HAPPY TO SEE.

WHICH IS A DIFFERENCE FROM LAST TIME.

>> O'Connell: ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THERE ARE STEPS FORWARD.

BUT THE CAUTION ALSO IS, AS MR. IKEDA, AS I KNOW YOU'VE CALLED HIM -- AS HE WOULD CAUTION IS ACTUALLY TRYING TO GET THE ACTION DONE AND NOT SO MUCH TALK.

DO YOU HAVE ANY ADVICE TO TEACHERS AND ADMINISTRATIONS ABOUT HOW TO INCLUDE THE FEETBACK OF THE STUDENTS?

AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, THE WARNING THAT HAVING THE CHILDREN AND TEENAGERS WHO ARE MOST HARMED BY THE RACISM AND BY THE ACTIONS HAVING TO CARRY THE BURDEN OF DOING THE EDUCATING OF THEIR PEERS, WHICH IS ALSO AN ADDITIONAL BURDEN THAT I THINK FOLKS DON'T REALLY RECOGNIZE.

>> MY MAIN ONE WOULD JUST BE NOT TO BE SO QUICK TO GET DEFENSIVE.

I KNOW WE ALWAYS WANT TO DEFEND OURSELVES WHEN YOU FEEL YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG.

BUT LISTENING TO THE STUDENTS AND GENUINELY MAKING THE EFFORT TO UNDERSTAND REALLY BETTER HELPS THEIR OVERALL EXPERIENCES IN SCHOOL.

I'M A FIRM BELIEVER THAT AS LONG AS THE EDUCATOR SETS A SAFE ENVIRONMENT, SO IT FEELS SAFE FOR THE KIDS, YOU WILL HAVE GREATER RESULTS.

IT SEX SERVES, LIKE, ON A GENERAL BASIS.

I WANT THEM TO BE LESS DEFENSIVE, LISTEN MORE, AND SELF-REFLECT ON THOSE THINGS AND THEIR CURRICULUM.

WHAT IS THE VOCABULARY THAT THEY ARE USING?

IT SIMPLE VOCABULARY CHANGES THAT HELP YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT CERTAINLY THINGS.

>> O'Connell: AND SOCIAL MEDIA IS PART OF THE PROBLEM AND ALSO PART OF THE SOLUTION.

PAYING ATTENTION TO HOW WE'RE USING THAT.

MAYA COR COURIERIA, THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> O'Connell: THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK TOMORROW.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org