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38 states are regulating cell phones in schools.

Representative Mark Tisde wants Michigan to be number 39.

So sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the Record.

Production of Off the Record is made possible in par by Bellwether Public Relations, a full servic strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

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And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Thank you very much.

Welcome to Studio C in the midst of Winter, as it continues, as we do on a busy week in our town with lots stuff going on in thi story just refuses to go away.

Republicans took away some money and some Democrats are not very happy.

Oh my!

The two sides ar really having a dandy of a back and forth over that 640 million plus tax dollars that were cut by the Republicans last week because part of the state dollars were never spent by the groups that got the money.

One of those programs was the State Aid to the kids program for kids in Flint, impacted by the Flint water crisis.

Ten years ago, the Whitmer administration trotted out this list of 19 projects in the Lansing are that took a hit, including 2.5 million for a Lansing school infrastructure project and 1 million going to the Association of County Clerks.

Republican Speaker Matt Hall contends in many cases, the groups are asking for more money than they actually need.

Here's his example.

They need 1 million.

So they ask for 3 million, you know because they may not, you know, because they figure, well maybe we'll get the 1 million.

Then the Democrat trifecta actually gave them the 3 million, and they don't know what to do with it.

And so they don't spend i at the end of the fiscal year.

The speaker's friendly working relationship with the governor may take a hit here, as he accuses her of having a huge slush fund.

I mean, there's a $10 billio pot sitting there in government of their slush fund and some of tha is not allocated to any program.

The Executive office has not responded as of yet.

And he accuses the Whitme administration of not providing answers to Republicans o why this money was never spent, which the Republicans then took away.

When they won't provide answers.

And the law requires us t approve or disapprove in 30 days where we don't have answers, we disapprove, and then we force a conversation to get the answers because we have to be good stewards of taxpayer money.

What the Democrats argue is Republicans are cutting programs that they just don't like, and people are being hurt in the process.

And one of the charges is Republicans did not give these groups a heads up that the cuts were coming.

The speaker says, not my job.

I don't think that our caucus has a responsibility to reach out to these groups.

Suffice it to say, this running battle back and forth is not about to go away soon.

And that's the question clear.

Does this story have legs, legs?

Well, yeah.

I mean, we saw this prolonged budge fight over the current budget.

Speaker Hall decided I'm not done fighting.

I'm going to pick another budget battle, and that' going to bleed into next year.

You saw the Senate pass the supplemental spending measure to restore most of these cuts.

Hall doesn't want to take that up.

Instead, he wants to pursue one at the start of next year.

But because of these new earmark disclosure requirements, that can't happen until 45 days after the start of the legislative session at the earliest.

So we're looking at this carrying over through March.

So it's not going away anytime soon.

I mean, yes, speaker Hall and his caucus have injected a large bit of chaos.

And the only ones seem like people that seem to win this week with a lobbyist who get who got an opportunity to go in front of the Appropriations Committee and help get their client in front of, in front of the Senate, Senate appropriations and and make their case and make this, big show of, you know, all the things that that the destructio that was done to their programs.

And, you know, Speaker Hall, some of the stuff I it's hard to imagine how it won't bite some of his members in the rear end.

And you know, at the end of the day, because when you have to go out and defend that, you've cut, funding for wigs for cancer, kids, that, that I mean, you're just writing the mailers, in some marginal house house seats next year.

So I think we can see this pour on for for months.

The one thing that is really, bizarre about this whole incident is we have not heard from the governor of Michigan directly.

She held, by my understanding, one public event this week, this literacy summit and in Detroit on Monday did not take questions, and has not shown up in the or maybe made a public statement, sent her state budget director out to to make some somewhat condemning statements about it, but just otherwise have been absent from the debate.

You expect her to blast the speaker Hall, the one, the guy that she's working with?You, you would think, Tim, that the very least she would say that they were looking int the legality of what they did.

And if the law that the Republicans used is even constitutional, you would think that you would say something.

You would she would give som guidance as to what she's doing.

But to chance point, he's absolutely right.

She said nothing.

We yelled a question at her after that literacy summit, and she just looked blankly at our reporter and walked away.

and we aske Speaker Hall yesterday we said, have you had a conversation with the governor?

Do you know if she's going to try and push back or fight bac or legally challenge these cuts?

And he said, no, we haven't had any conversation at all.

And because of my great relationship with her, as he said, you would think she would give me a heads up if she was going to.

But then he turned around an blamed her for not telling him, that, you know, we're going to be cutting funding for the kids of cancer.

I mean, it just it was this this was back and forth, like he kept turning the gun back at her and and and blaming her for for this.

And she's done out defending yourself.

I mean, this and Senate Democrats are just out there just kind of twisting in the wind right now.

Well, Clara pointed out that the Senate did pass a supplemental restore the money, but very quickly, the House Republican chair of appropriations says illegal.

They can't do it.

It's unconstitutional.

While they said, yeah, it's a single subject, Bill.

I mean, they changed the subject and put the money in another thing.

It just doesn't make any sense.

Still, Matt Hal has been railing against waste, fraud and abuse in the Michigan Economic Development Corporation.

He has had a target on the saw jobs, you know, cash for jobs fund for months.

Gues what?

Program did not get cut.

He saw.

He saw.

I mean, it's like it is sitting there waitin for someone to grab the money.

And he did not stop that one from from that.

Well, you did not stop the Whitmer administration from continuing to spend money on a program that has that has like an empt battery plant miles from here, sitting, sitting idle.

Here' the interesting twist on that.

There was apparently a conversation about what to do with PSAs.

And so the question would be raised why wasn't there a conversatio on any of these other programs which are impacting people?

So they you.

Oh, yeah.

We had to talk about such a good idea to go.

And they said, it's not my job.

I that is a little bit of a mystery.

I mean, and there's this transparency blame game going on where Hall is basically saying it was on the department to provide us all the information about what exactl we were cutting, not necessarily our responsibility.

And by making these cuts for forcing greater transparency down the line if and when we passed the supplemental.

But I think what's at stake here is more than just whether or not these cuts get restored.

But the fundamental relationship between the state as a funder and these nonprofits and these local governments, I mean, will this change how the state executes?

Jim, a hoot.

Now, here's here's, you know, I think that no, here's what I think they care about.

They care about this mone that keeps getting passed over and under work projects year after year.

And the fact that it's ballooned to $2.7 billion when during the Snyder administration, it was a few hundred million dollars, they're claiming that that Whitmer has been able to take this mechanism and slide a bunch of funding through without going through the regular appropriations process, without going through Matt Hall's heat process.

And this is blowing the whistle on it and saying, you ain't you guys ain't doing this.

So how much of this is Matt Hall being Matt Hall that his team is up for the negotiations?

He has used that word, which is a cue for we're going to come back.

We're going to revisit some of this money and you might get it back soon.

But he's not ready to do that yet.

But kind of teeing it up for down the road with you kind of harken back to, t Whitmer's, withholding of money out of the budget.

I know in 2019 I forgot that this is a very similar play.

She used the state ad board to hold bac hundreds of millions of dollars.

And he's doing and she in order to get what she wanted on a budget deal.

I mean, she didn't get her 45 increase, but she got, she got she got some things and and and they did basically set a new tone at the time with, with Mike Shirkey.

she it has a very similar feeling where he's trying to reset things for for the, for the, the next year going into the election and, and also a tighter budget very likely, as the economy seemingly is contracting.

DTE got what they wanted from the PSC this week.

Yeah they did.

The MPSC was in charge of saying it was going to be fine to provide the energy for Celine, plant for data centers.

And, you know, the the hearing was, was long, very, emotional, very, excitable.

but, you know, a lot of these data centers where you see a lot of these data center pop up with the emergence of AI.

A lot of these things are done at the local level.

The citing, the, you know, the setbacks, the, the, the legal maneuverings of getting the data center in a local community is done at the local level.

What was done at the MPSC at the state level was just allowing DTE the power to, provide the electricity.

I mean, that's it.

I mean, they're there fo as much commotion as there was.

Their task was very limited.

It had nothing to do with water.

All they were concerned about.

And the PSC commissioner said, we have written language into this agreement that the ratepayers ar not going to get stuck with it if there's an overflow or it doesn't work.

I mean, at the end of the day, this, this DTE for this one data center is going to be, providing as much less electricity as the equivalent of 900,000 homes.

It's Macomb, Oakland and Monroe counties combined.

It's an it is astonishing amoun of electricity and but the that what the PSC role i to make sure that it essentially is carved of from the rest of its portfolio so that the rest of those folks, those those 900,000 homes in those three countie don't get, their rates increase at that because of the, of the electricity needed to do this one project.

Now, DTE says they have the capacity internally right now to do this without without building new generation.

But there is going to be a there is already another big data center plan for Lyon Township.

there are there is a goal, by the way.

Yeah.

And well, in the local level, yes.

And but then there will be an electricity contract as well, probably involved in that.

So there's going to be one after another.

And in these as these thing are popping up in the demand is is increasing because the demand is increasing because of us, because we're using these things these every day to, to, you know, these little computers in our hands, and we're streaming all the video and we're, we're, we're putting the demand that, that is causing, this, this surge in data centers to show up.

So if the ratepayers are not going to pay for it, the stock holders are going to take a hit.

No data centers are paying for it.

Oh, okay.

The data centers paying for the electricity.

What what what what the wha if something falls apart here?

Who gets i big question that holds the bay.

And they were frustrated that this plan from DTE was fast tracked.

you had Attorney General Dana Nessel arguing for it to just go through the normal process where there can be contestation here.

The governor wanted this to move forward, and now we're seeing Democrats trying to roll back tax breaks for data centers because of this.

Good story.

Good story.

All right.

Here's another good story.

Cell phones in schools as you're about to hear from our guest, he's very confident that next year a bill will pass to limit its use in Michigan schools.

Let's take a look at that.

And then we'll be back to say good night, Representative bring us up to speed on where we are on your vot on the ban on the adjustment of cellphones in schools.

Well, House Bill 4140. in fact, I spoke to the governor, just a couple of weeks ago.

She called regarding economic development, and we got on the subject of cell phone because it's important to her.

we're in agreement with the governor's office.

We're in agreement with, Chair Paul Handke's office in the Senate.

our respective, staff have been working well together.

And I was just, finding a place to put it on the agenda.

I don't think it's going to happen by the end of this, calendar year, since we have just a few days left.

But it would certainly be a nice way to start off, 2026 with a bipartisan, when I've spoken to the, minority leader in the House and the minority, whip in the House and, I, their prediction is that if it next time it comes up, there will be 100 votes.

That's a little more than you need.

That's that's just somewhat more.

But I'll take every one I can get.

So what?

What?

Let me just let me follow up on that question because that's significant.

Okay.

If the minority peopl are telling because the Ds fell off on the signal last time around, right?

Correct.

All right.

So if you if you got their support in that caucus, you're looking pretty good?

Yes.

That that's correct.

And I had support in the caucus before.

It was simply a political decision, that, you know, we didn't have 56 Republicans on the floor that day.

We didn't have enough votes to push it.

And quite often when you're in the minority no one wants to be the 56th vote to, to to to push to, you know, to push a majority bill across the line.

And, and and that was simply an opportunity for them to exercise their, their muscle a little bit.

They've done that.

That's all behind us.

And now we can move forward.

You know, obviously, there's a couple of things that we've done here, but this let me not try to put words in your mouth, but you you and I talk about this numerous times.

Is this the most optimistic you had been so far in this debate going back and forth?

Yes.

No.

I, all the all the pieces are there.

And I think, Tim, in the time in the time that's passed since the two of us first started talking about this, I mean, my first draft was in June of 2023. the initial responses were, you can't take phones away from kids.

And now there are 38 state that have that have statewide, standards on cell phones in schools.

You know, the time has has come that Michigan has to get on board.

there's no there's no more thinking about it.

You know, pondering if this is a good idea.

and the schools in Michigan are probably close to 40 or so school districts now that have, that have moved ahead on their own.

There's no school district out there that's done this for any period of time.

Avondale schools in Auburn Hills, Traverse City area public school district.

they I think they're in their fourth or fifth year now with, in a way, for the day program.

none of them would ever go back to to cell phones in the classroom.

and the success stories are just all over the place.

So for context of the legislation, refresh our audience's memory on what it does?

Well, K through 12, it prohibits, cell phones during, instruction time.

Now, K through six, half of that, of that, public school, span, you know, basically all day is instruction time, for grades seven through eight.

they could, have their use their cell phones between, between periods while they're passing between classes.

but during instruction time, they have to be be put away.

And there are all sorts o toolkits out there on processes and, and procedures, for, for for, implementing a successful, a successful program.

it will allow, emergency use, which was probably the biggest pushback from parents, as long as that emergency us does not interfere with school, school district emergency protocol or with first responder activities.

it will allow for basic telephones to be kept with students all day long.

If that's a desire.

Basic telephone being the primary function is phone calls and text messages.

No internet connection, no support of third party applications.

Alright so I could have a phone.

As long as I'm not connected to the internet did I hear that correctly?

It would be a flip phon or they now have what are called basic phones that look just like to look just like a smartphone.

if, if if a child is sensitive to that and doesn't want to stand out.

but but that's just fine.

The, the and the distinction is when you have a basic phone, you make a phone call.

You hang up, you put the phone away.

You send a text.

You put the phone away because there's nothing else you can use it for.

The problem with the smart phones is you use them all day long with the apps and taking photos and videos and uploading and and and shooting out group texts with, with imagery and those kinds of things.

And so you think you have the basis for winning over the parents who are concerned about that emergency access.

You think he would push that one?

Yes.

And even even the original, you know, the the gold standard is, is a bell to bell.

Morning bell to afternoon bell.

Prohibition.

and even when you tal to parents, if there is a strict no use during the, during an emergency, they understand the logic.

It's just emotionally it's hard.

It's hard to let go.

Probably the worst thing that you could have in the actual event of an emergency would be kids trying to get on their phones and talking to someone miles away that has no idea what the emergency is or what the management protocol is.

and then you certainly don't want hundreds of parents arriving at the school in their cars, while first responders are tryin to get there to do their jobs.

So each each school district, each building can have its own emergency protocol.

but to build this legislation does not specifically prohibit use during the event of an emergency.

The other thing you have to consider, Tim, that was a very easy concession for, for me to make is how many emergency days are there a year in a school district?

You tell me.

Hopefully zero.

Hopefully zero.

There really aren't very many.

So that was a that was a relatively easy concession to make with the with the caveat that that you can't interfere with school district protocol or with first responder activities.

The other part of that equatio which you mentioned before, is if the kid is on the phone with mom or dad, the kid is not listening to people that are tryin to save their lives in the room.

The trained professional at the head of the classroom.

And that's the and that's the key.

and so the school districts will be able to implement protocols that can satisfy, a parent's desire for, for contact and still maintain, a protocol and a sense of decorum so that the trained professional can guide the students, effectively manage the students through this emergency.

All right, so you're not declaring victory, but you certainly have.

You're certainly in the ninth inning with the two outs.

And one more to go?

Well, I will tell you, and I certainly hope that with the with the years that I've put into building this, coalition, there will be a statewide standard in Michigan.

whether it's my bill or someone else's, in the near futur or further out, this is the way it's simply going to be nationwide.

there are 20, I think, 20 states now that have statewide bell to bell prohibition.

states like New York, you know, a very a very blue, blue state.

Governor Hochul, came out very adamant about, you know, the gold standard bell to Bell.

and, and and she flat out called, smartphon use by students, an addiction.

And why would we allow students to have a product that they're addicted to in their in their possession during instruction time?

It's just, you know, the common sense reality is, is is reaching red and blue states.

It will b it will be the norm nationwide.

This is step number one towards that?

Schools and school districts will be allowed to implement more strict protocol than what's in the law that is written into the law.

but if you have if you have all day long, prohibition K through 12 or K through six, rather as, as the, as as my bill, initiates as those children advance in age and grades, it will be easier and easier to put together, you know, full day prohibitions, in, in many school districts.

And that's, that's what I anticipate.

Once the idea has been implemented, the school districts see the benefit and, and and they, they jum on opportunities to expand it.

Let me be clear.

So if I'm a 9 through 12 grad student, under your legislation, if I wanted to do bell to bell, could I?

Yes, yes you could.

And in fact there are some schools and there's one toolkit protocol that allows students to sign agreement or a contract with the school.

And one of the options is just leave the phone at home.

Yeah.

And so there's there's an awareness there.

And I can give you a real quick anecdotal, experience.

as and Dale Middle School now is in their third year of a bell to Bell prohibition.

It at the end of their first year, fights were down 80%.

disciplinary referrals and counseling referrals were down 80 plus percent.

Assaults, teachers were down 100%.

So it's not just it's not just the the ability to focus during instruction time.

It's all of the drama that's associated with social media use and posting, that goes on during the day.

You hear these sad stories.

You know, someone will post a message or send out a group text.

You know, Marty' going to punch Tommy in the face in front of the cafeteria at 1130, and there are a dozen kid show up at a, you know, at 1130 to protect Tommy?

No to video, it to video.

Tommy getting punched.

And it's it's just that kind of perversion, that that the social media enticement of of gathering clicks and likes and popularity, it's that kind of perversion that we're hoping to end.

And eliminating that kind of drama.

Our thanks to Representative Tisdel for that comment.

And thanks to our panel.

Everybody.

Have a nice holiday in nex week, a year in addition of off the record to Jake, about six weeks to control all the stuff that went on in 2025.

Look forward to seeing you there, folks.

Good night.

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Learn more at bellwetherpr.com.

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