>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": OMICRON IS SPREADING, BOSTON'S IMPLEMENTING NEW VACCINE RULES, TESTS ARE GETTING TOUGHER TO FIND BY THE DAY, AND THE HOLIDAYS ARE RAPIDLY APPROACHING.

SO WHAT DO YOU NEED TO KNOW NOW TO KEEP YOU AND YOUR FAMILY SAFE?

TWO TOP LOCAL DOCTORS JOIN ME WITH THE ANSWERS.

PLUS, THE PATRIOTS' DEVIN McCOURTY AND TITO SANTOSSILVA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NON-PROFIT BOSTON UNCORNERED, ABOUT THE MANY COSTS OF GANG VIOLENCE AND WHAT THEY SEE AS AN ACHIEVABLE PLAN TO END IT IN BOSTON.

♪♪ >> Braude: IT'S BEGINNING TO LOOK A LOT LIKE LAST CHRISTMAS, WITH CORONAVIRUS CASES AND DEATHS ONCE AGAIN SPIKING ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND HOSPITALS OVERWHELMED, FLOODED MOSTLY BY UNVACCINATED PATIENTS.

IN THIS STATE, DEATHS AND HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE RISING AT A MUCH LOWER RATE THAN WE'RE SEEING NATIONALLY, BUT WE'RE STILL LOGGING MORE THAN 5,000 NEW CASES A DAY, A RATE WE HAVEN'T SEEN SINCE LAST WINTER.

A LITTLE OVER A THIRD OF THOSE NEW CASES ARE BREAKTHROUGHS AMONG THE VACCINATED.

AND EVEN SOME WHO HAVE BEEN BOOSTERED ARE TESTING POSITIVE, LIKE SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN, WHO SAID YESTERDAY SHE'S EXPERIENCING MILD COVID SYMPTOMS.

IT'S A FRUSTRATING REALITY FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, ESPECIALLY WHEN SO MANY OTHERS HAVE NOT, LIKE WASHINGTON STATE SENATOR DOUG ERIKSEN, WHO DIED FROM COVID ON FRIDAY AFTER NEARLY TWO YEARS OF FIGHTING HIS STATE'S VACCINE REQUIREMENTS.

IT'S UNCLEAR WHETHER HE EVER GOT THE VACCINE HIMSELF.

THEN THERE'S THE C.E.O.

OF SOUTHWEST AIRLINES, GARY KELLY, WHO TESTIFIED BEFORE CONGRESS THAT HE DIDN'T THINK MASKS DID MUCH TO MAKE PLANES SAFER.

OF COURSE, HE WASN'T WEARING A MASK AS HE SPOKE AND TESTED POSITIVE THE FOLLOWING DAY.

HE, TOO, IS FULLY VACCINATED AND BOOSTED.

BUT IF YOU HAPPENED TO BE NEAR HIM DURING THAT HEARING, WOULDN'T YOU FEEL BETTER IF HE'D HAD A MASK?

FOR YOUR SAKE, IF NOT HIS OWN?

AND WITH THE DELTA AND OMICRON VARIANTS SPREADING FAST, PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS ARE EXPECTING THINGS WILL GET WORSE.

>> Doctor: IT IS GOING TO BE A TOUGH FEW WEEKS TO MONTHS AS WE GET DEEPER INTO THE WINTER.

WE ARE GOING TO BE IN FOR SOME SERIOUS DIFFICULTIES RIGHT NOW, AND WE BETTER BE DOING MORE TO MITIGATE AGAINST THAT.

>> Braude: ON THAT FRONT, JOE BIDEN IS EXPECTED TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT COVID MITIGATION EFFORTS TOMORROW -- I WISH IT HAD HAPPENED DAYS AGO -- WHEN HE'S EXPECTED TO ADDRESS BOOSTER PLANS, VACCINES FOR KIDS, AND TRAVEL SAFETY, AMONG OTHER ISSUES, PLUS TESTING AVAILABILITY, WITH APPOINTMENTS AND AT-HOME KITS ABOUT AS HARD TO FIND IN SOME AREAS AS BOOSTER SHOTS THESE DAYS.

BOSTON MAYOR MICHELLE WU ALSO ANNOUNCED TODAY THAT THE CITY WILL REQUIRE PROOF OF VACCINATION FOR PEOPLE IN THE CITY'S INDOOR SPACES AS OF MID-NEXT MONTH.

THAT WILL INCLUDE BARS, RESTAURANTS, GYMS, AND SPORTS AND ENTERTAINMENT VENUES.

BUT WITH MANY OF THESE EFFORTS STILL WEEKS AWAY, AND THE SURGE UPON US NOW, WHAT CAN WE DO TO KEEP SAFE AND SPEND CHRISTMAS WITH THE FAMILY?

I'M JOINED NOW BY DR. NAHID BHADELIA, THE DIRECTOR OF BOSTON UNIVERSITY'S CENTER FOR EMERGING INFECTIOUS DISEASES POLICY AND RESEARCH, AND DR. JEREMY FAUST, AN EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN AT BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL AND INSTRUCTOR AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL.

>> Braude: DOCTOR AND DOCTOR, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU, JIM.

>> Braude: DR. BHADELIA, WE READ IN LANCET, THE MEDICAL JOURNAL LAST WEEK, THAT VACCINE MANDATES DO WORK -- ARE YOU IN SUPPORT?

>> Doctor: ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK BETTER LATE THAN NEVER.

I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS A WHILE AGO BECAUSE WE DO HAVE A POPULATION, FOR THE MOST PART, THAT IS WILLING TO TAKE THESE VACCINES, AND FOR THE REMAINING PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T TAKEN THE VACCINES, MEASURES LIKE THIS WILL PUSH THEM, TO GIVE THEM ONE MORE REASON, POTENTIALLY, TO TAKE THAT SPOT.

WITH THE OMICRON VARIANT, THAT GREATER AMOUNT OF PROTECTION MEANS FEWER PEOPLE ARE UNVACCINATED THAT MIGHT END UP IN THE HOSPITAL.

>> Braude: DR. FAUST, YOU USED THE TERM "CIRCUIT BREAKERS," THE SHORT-TERM RESTRICTIONS THAT SLOW THE SPREAD.

WHAT MAYOR WU DID, WOULD THAT BE AN EXAMPLE OF A CIRCUIT BREAKER, ACCORDING TO YOU?

>> Doctor: NOT EXACTLY.

A CIRCUIT BREAKER IS NOT REALLY ABOUT WHETHER YOUR VACCINATED OR NOT -- ALTHOUGH WE STILL BELIEVE THAT VACCINATION SLOWS THE VARIANT DOWN -- BUT THINGS LIKE NOT GOING TO INDOOR DINING AND MASS GATHERINGS ARE AT A TIME WHEN TWO THINGS OCCUR, WHICH ARE: A REALLY LARGE INCREASE IN CASES AT A MOMENT WHEN YOU ALREADY KNOW YOUR HOSPITALS ARE FILLING UP.

IF YOU CAN SEE THAT COMBINATION COMING DOWN AND LOOKING INTO THE FUTURE, AND SAYING, WAIT, GIVEN THE CASES WE HAVE TODAY, OUR HOSPITALS ARE GOING TO EXPLODE ON THE INSIDE UNLESS WE STOP THIS.

WE NEED TO CHANGE OUR BEHAVIORS LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE SURE THAT DOESN'T HAP.

HAPPEN.

THAT'S WHAT I SAY IS A CIRCUIT BREAKER.

>> Braude: THE GOVERNOR CONTINUES TO SAY WE DON'T NEED A STATEWIDE MASK MANDATE.

WOULD THAT FALL INTO YOUR RESTRICTION?

>> Doctor: I THINK MASKS HELP.

THEY HELP A LITTLE BIT AND THEY HELP A LOT, DEPENDING ON THE MASK.

YES, I THINK A MASK MANDATE WOULD HELP.

I WAS VERY DISAPPOINTED TO HEAR THAT KIND OF A COMMENT.

AND I WAS DISAPPOINTED TO HEAR THE WHITE HOUSE SAY THEY WEREN'T LOOKING TO MAKE PEOPLE DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT WHOTHAVE BEEN VACCINATED.

I'M SORRY, THAT HAS TO BE ON THE TABLE.

THERE SHOULD BE NO NON-STARTERS.

WE NEED EVERYTHING TO BE A POSSIBILITY.

IT DOESN'T MEAN WE NEED TO DO EVERYTHING, BUT EVERYTHING SHOULD BE ON THE TABLE.

>> Braude: I WANT TO GET BACK TO BIDEN IN A SECOND, BUT, DR. BHADELIA, I KNOW YOU REFERRED TO THE MASK MANDATE, DOING IT OR NOT, IS A LOW HANGING FRUIT.

IT IS ONE THING TO BE A GOVERNOR AND SAY WE'RE GOING TO BE A LOCKDOWN, WHICH CLEARLY THERE ARE SOME LOSERS IN THAT AS WELL AS WINNERS.

WHO IS A LOSER IF YOU DO A MASK MANDATE?

WHY WOULD YOU NOT DO A MASK MANDATE JUST WITH -- WHAT'S THE EXPRESSION?

-- AN ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION.

>> Doctor: IT'S INTERESTING.

I GOT AN E-MAIL OVER THE WEEKEND AND THEY SAID, WE ALL GOT BOOSTED, AND WE DID OUR PART.

AND THEY SAID, WE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU'RE ASKING FOR MASK MANDATES.

BUT IT IS WHAT JEREMY SAID, WHEN YOU HAVE A WAVE THIS BIG, WHERE HOSPITALS ARE ALREADY OVERWHELMED, MORE PEOPLE ARE GETTING INFECTED, EVEN IN A HIGHLY VACCINATED COMMUNITY, MEANS THAT THIS FAST-MOVING VARIANT FINDS PEOPLE WHO ARE VULNERABLE, WHICH INCLUDES THE UNVACCINATED, AND IT ALSO INCLUDES THE PEOPLE OF EXTREME AGES, FOR WHOM IMMUNITY MAY BE WAVING.

IF WE'RE ALL PART OF THE TRANSMISSION TEAM, AND WE'RE ALL GETTING BREAKTHROUGH INFECTIONS DESPITE OUR GOOD PROTECTION, HAVING THE MASK MANDATES CAN HELP US CONTINUE TO KEEP THE SOCIETY OPEN.

IN THE CASES WHERE YOU SAID IT WILL HAVE AN ECONOMIC IMPACT, I SAY LOOK AT THE IMPACT OF NOT TAKING ALL OF THE MEASURES WE WANT TO TAKE, TO THE POINT WHERE WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE THE HOSPITALS ARE OVERWHELMED.

AND THEN THE ECONOMIC RESULT OF THAT IS WE HAVE TO CLOSE INDOOR CAPACITIES OR HAVING MASS LOCKDOWNS.

>> Braude: DR. FAUST, YOU MENTIONED THE PRESIDENT, AND HE IS DOING THIS SPEECH TOMORROW -- UNITED I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY HE DIDN'T DO IT THE MINUTE HE ANNOUNCED IT, BUT I'M HOPING HE GETS RID OF THIS RIDICULOUS -- IF YOU HAVE PRIVATE INSURANCE YOU GET REIMBURSED FOR YOUR RAPID TESTS, AND INSTEAD OF PROVIDE A BILLION RAPID TESTS FOR THE DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO HEAR HIM SAY?

>> Doctor: I AGREE WITH THAT ONE 100%.

I HAVE WHAT I CALL IS THE OMICRON PLAN.

IT SOUNDS LIKE A ROBERT LUDLUM NOVEL.

IT HAS A FEW THINGS.

ONE IS CIRCUIT BREAKERS ONLY IN PLACES WHERE YOU NEED THEM.

WE HAVE DATA, LET'S BE NIMBLE.

NUMBER TWO, RAPID TESTS FOR EVERYBODY, NOT BY REIMBURSEMENT, BUT RAINING OUT OF THE SKY.

AND MASK MANDATES, AND BETTER MASKS FOR HIGH-RISK SITUATIONS BECAUSE THE QUALITY OF MASK MATTERS A LOT.

AND DOOR TO DOOR VACCINATION.

YES, BOOSTING IS A PART OF THIS, BUT IF YOU GET ONE PERSON WHO IS UNVACCINATED TWO TAKE THAT FIRST DOSE, YOU COULD HAVE BOOSTED 10 OR 20 PEOPLE AND NOT GOT THE BENEFIT OF THAT ONE PERSON WHO WAS NOT VACCINATED.

SO LET'S GO DOOR TO DOOR.

>> Braude: WHAT SHOULD HE BE SAYING TOMORROW, DR.

BED BHADELIA >> Doctor: I THINK THERE ARE TWO MESSAGES.

ONE IS THE VACCINES ARE HIGHLY PROTECTIVE, WHICH THEY ARE, AND THE BOOSTERS TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL, FOR THOSE VULNERABLE AND FOR ALL OF US.

THE OTHER THING WE'RE HEARING IS HOW BAD THIS WINTER AND THE NEXT FEW WEEKS ARE GOING TO BE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT PROTECTED.

I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT ONE OF THE REASONS THIS IS PARTICULARLY BAD IS SOME OF THE MEDICAL SCHOOLS MAY NOT BE AS AFFECTIVE.

MONOCLONAL ANTIBODY -- MANY ARE NOT AS AFFECTIVE AGAINST OMICRON.

YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET ACCESS TO THOSE THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE AFFECTIVE AGAINST OMICRON.

BUT THE MESSAGE I'M NOT HEARING, WHICH ONLY A PRESIDENT CAN DELIVER TOMORROW, I REALLY HOPE COMES THROUGH, IS THIS IDEA IT HAS BEEN A TOUGH COUPLE YEARS.

WE HAVE DONE EVERYTHING WE CAN, BUT TO GET TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS MAJOR SURGE REQUIRES FOR ALL OF US TO PITCH IN FOR A BIT LONGER BECAUSE ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE SERVICES IS A COMMON GOOD.

AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE VULNERABLE AND BEING HOSPITALIZED AT HIGH RATES, THEN NONE OF US CAN ACCESS HOSPITALS FOR CARE OF STROKES ARE BIRTHS.

THAT'S THE MESSAGE THAT NEEDS TO COME FROM THE PRESIDENT THAT I HOPE COMES TOMORROW.

>> Braude: HOW ABOUT A MESSAGE FROM YOU, DR. BHADELIA?

CHRISTMAS IS FIVE DAYS AWAY.

WHAT IS THE MESSAGE FOR PEOPLE IN GREAT ANGST FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO KNOW WHAT TO DO AND WHAT NOT TO DO.

>> Doctor: IF EVERYBODY IS VACCINATED AND MANY PEOPLE ARE BOOSTED, IF YOU CAN KEEP THE GATHERINGS SMALL, AND IF YOU CAN LAYER THAT BY CHANGING YOUR BEHAVIOR -- NOT CHANGING YOUR BEHAVIOR THE WEEK BEFORE, NOT GOING TO INDOOR DINING AND MAJOR PUBLIC EVENTS WHERE YOU MAY BE EXPOSED TO OTHERS, AND YOUR USING THOSE TESTS, IN MY OPINION YOU'RE ADDING THE EXTRA LAYERS AS LONG AS YOU'RE WEARING THE GOOD-QUALITY MASKS, THE N-95s WHEN YOU'RE TRAVELING.

I THINK WE CAN PULL IT OFF IN SMALL GATHERINGS.

FOR THE UNVACCINATED, A VULNERABLE PERSON IS AT VERY HIGH RISK RIGHT NOW.

THAT IS THE CONSIDERATION THAT NEEDS TO GO INTO PLACE.

IF YOU'RE UNVACCINATED, GET YOUR VACCINES.

HOWEVER, YOUR IMMUNITY WILL NOT BUILD BEFORE CHRISTMAS, SO YOU NEED TO TAKE THOSE EXTRA MEASURES AND ACTUALLY NOT GET INTO LARGER GATHERINGS BECAUSE WITH OMICRON, THERE IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF COMMUNITY TRANSMISSION AND YOU MIGHT GET INFECTED.

>> Braude: DR. FAUST, YOU WANT TO ADD SOMETHING TO THAT GUIDANCE?

>> Doctor: NO.

I THINK THAT IS PERFECT.

WHAT I WOULD ADD IS TO THINK ABOUT YOUR OWN RISK PARAMETER AND ALSO THE RISK PARAMETER OF OTHER PEOPLE.

I DON'T REALLY WORRY RIGHT NOW THAT I WOULD GET VERY SICK FROM THE INFECTION.

I'M NOT WORRIED BECAUSE I'M CONFIDENT IN THE PROTECTION I HAVE FROM VACCINATION.

BUT I AM WORRIED WHO I MIGHT SPREAD IT TO.

IF I'M GOING TO BE HANGING OUT WITH SOMEBODY WHO IS IMMUNE COMPROMISED OR WHO HAS A NEWBORN, I NEED TO KEEP THOSE PEOPLE IN MIND WHEN I THINK ABOUT WHAT KIND OF GATHERINGS I DO.

>> Braude: IF WE CAN STEP BACK FROM THE LOCAL OR REGIONAL SCENE, I WANT TO READ A QUOTE TO YOU FROM YOU DR. BHADELIA.

"THERE ARE MOMENTS IN HISTORY WHERE OUR ACTIONS REQUIRE COLLECTIVE COGNITION AND URGENCY.

IT IS AN ANTI-ISOLATIONIST MESSAGE."

WHAT I TAKE AWAY FROM IT, UNLESS WE VACCINATE THE REST OF THE WORLD, THIS IS GOING TO ESSENTIALLY BE A NEVER-ENDING NIGHTMARE.

IS THAT A FAIR SUMMARY OF YOUR MESSAGE IN LESS ARTFUL TERMS?

>> Doctor: YOU DID IT VERY ARTFULLY.

>> Braude: THANK YOU.

>> Doctor: THAT'S EXACTLY IT.

IT IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

IT IS NOT JUST THIS CRISIS, BUT RECOGNIZING OUR CONNECTIVITY ABOUT THIS CRISIS, AND IT HAS TRULY PROVEN THE POINT WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.

WE LIVE AND AN AGE OF EPIDEMICS, AND IF WE DON'T CHANGE BUSINESS, AND WORK ON EQUITY PARTS, TO MAKE SURE WHEN WE HAVE THESE CRISES, WE'RE PROTECTING OURSELVES AND ALSO THE WEAKEST PARTS OF OUR COMMUNITY, THAT WE'RE ALL GOING TO SUFFER.

WE NEED TO THINK BACK AND LOOK AT HOW THIS PLAYS OUT AT AN EVERYDAY LEVEL SO THE NEXT ONE DOESN'T DECAPITATE US EVEN MORE.

>> Braude: DR. FAUST, I'M GUESSING YOU AGREE WITH THAT MESSAGE, BUT KNOWING HOW AMERICANS SEE US IN THE WORLD -- WILL THERE BE SERIOUS ADVOCACY IN THIS COUNTRY TO DO AS MUCH FOR PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD AS WE DO FOR OURSELVES?

>> Doctor: ONLY IF PEOPLE FINALLY INTERNALIZE THE TRUTH, THAT WE'RE ALL CONNECTED.

I THINK WE HAVE BEEN DIVIDED BY POLITICS, AND THAT IS HIGHLY UNFORTUNATE.

I THINK ONE THING WE AGREE ON IS THE HISTORIANS WILL LOOK BACK ON THIS TIME AND THEY WILL ASK A VERY SIMPLE QUESTION: GIVEN THE TOOLS THAT THEY HAD, WHY DID THEY PERFORM SO POORLY?

IT IS ONE THING TO LOOK BACK AND SAY IN 1918, THEY DIDN'T HAVE MUCH, WHAT COULD THAT DO.

WE HAVE SUCH INCREDIBLE INFORMATION AT OUR DISPOSAL, AND WE USE IT IN A WAY THAT WILL CONFUSE THE HISTORIANS.

WE HAVE THE SAME QUESTION.

AND WE'RE WONDERING THE SAME THING.

>> Braude: DR. FAUST AND DR. BHADELIA, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND YOUR WORK.

THANK YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: NEXT UP, AMONG THE OTHER PUBLIC HEALTH CRISES BOSTON COMMUNITIES ARE BATTLING, GANG VIOLENCE.

SINCE 2016, THE CITY HAS SEEN OVER 1,000 SHOOTINGS, WITH MORE THAN 300 PEOPLE KILLED.

AND THOSE SHOOTINGS HAPPEN DISPROPORTIONATELY MORE OFTEN IN THE CITY'S MOST IMPOVERISHED NEIGHBORHOODS.

BUT THIS YEAR SHOOTINGS AND HOMICIDES IN BOSTON FELL, BUCKING NATIONAL TRENDS, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THE DORCHESTER-BASED GROUP BOSTON UNCORNERED IS LOOKING TO KEEP UP BY REACHING OUT.

IN NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THEY'VE ACTIVELY ENGAGED WITH GANG MEMBERS AND OFFERED VARIOUS RESOURCES, THEY'VE FOUND CRIME RATES ARE THREE TIMES LOWER THAN IN OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS.

AND THOSE KIND OF RESULTS ARE WHY GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER ALLOCATED $50 MILLION OF AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ACT MONEY LAST WEEK TO VIOLENCE INTERVENTION AND PREVENTION PLANS LIKE THESE.

BUT AC COULD MY NEXT GUESTS, TO MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE, WE NEED TO INVEST MORE.

IN AN OP-ED FOR THE "GLOBE" LAST WEEK, PATRIOTS' CO-CAPTAIN DEVIN McCOURTY JOINED "BOSTON UNCORNERED" EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR TITO SANTOSSILVA IN CALLING FOR AN ADDITIONAL $24 MILLION ANNUAL INVESTMENT FROM BUSINESS AND PUBLIC LEADERS OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS TO HELP DISRUPT GENERATIONAL URBAN POVERTY IN BOSTON.

DEVIN McCOURTY AND TITO SANTOSSILVA JOIN ME NOW.

DEVIN McCOURTY IS AN ADVISORY BOARD MEMBER FOR BOSTON UNCORNERED.

HE ALSO SITS ON THE BOARD AT BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER, HAS BEEN AN OUTSPOKEN ADVOCATE FOR CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM FOR YEARS, AND WAS A 2020 FINALIST FOR THE MUHAMMAD ALI SPORTS HUMANITARIAN AWARD.

>> Braude: DEVIN AND TITO, IT IS GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> Braude: DEVIN, IF I CAN START BI WITH YOU, YOU WRITE THAT BOTH OF YOU GREW UP AROUND POVERTY, AND WHAT DID YOU EXPERIENCE THAT BOSTON UNCORNERED DO?

>> OPPORTUNITY.

GROWING UP UP AND SEEING INDIVIDUALS GO A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, A LOT OF TIMES WE RELIED ON SPORTS OR ENTERTAINMENT.

IT WAS HOW TO AVOID SOME OF THE PITFALLS THAT WERE AROUND US, BUT THERE WASN'T MUCH OTHER OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK TOWARDS -- WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT TRYING TO BE SUCCESSFUL, TRYING TO CHANGE AND BREAK THE CYCLE OF WHAT WAS IN FRONT OF YOU.

I THINK THAT IS ORIGINALLY WHY I WANTED TO GET INVOLVED WITH BOSTON UNCORNERED AND TO TRY TO HELP MAKE THAT IMPACT AND GIVE OTHER KIDS THAT OPPORTUNITY TO DO WHATEVER IT IS THEY DREAMED OF.

>> Braude: TITO, I READ YOU WERE A SECOND YEAR STUDENT AT NORTHEASTERN WHEN YOUR BEST FRIEND WAS KILLED OVER, I THINK, SOMETHING LIKE A PAIR OF SHOES.

IS THAT WHAT COMPELLED YOU TO DO WHAT YOU'RE CURRENTLY DOING?

>> YEAH.

MOMENTS LIKE THAT, WHERE YOU LOSE A FRIEND OVER SOMETHING SO TRIVIAL.

AND ALSO WHAT IS DRIVING THAT OTHER YOUNG PERSON TO FEEL THAT IS THE BEST RESULT OF THAT INTERACTION AND THAT ENGAGEMENT.

I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING BIGGER THAN JUST MORALITY AND SAYING THESE YOUNG PEOPLE SHOULD BE MAKING BETTER DECISIONS.

THERE ARE A LOT OF LAYERS TO THIS, AND I THINK WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB AS A WHOLE, AS A COMMUNITY IN WRAPPING AROUND IT AND SUPPORTING CHANGE ON A LARGER SCALE.

>> Braude: TITO, HOW BIG A PROBLEM IS GANG VIOLENCE IN BOSTON?

>> IT IS HUGE.

YOU'RE LOOKING AT SOMEWHERE AROUND THE VICINITY OF 3,000 GANGS.

BROKEN DOWN INTO NEIGHBORHOODS AND SMALL GROUPS OF FIVE TO SIX YOUNG PEOPLE AT A TIME.

SO IT CAN BECOME A VERY TOXIC ENVIRONMENT FOR YOUNG PEOPLE, EVEN IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN A GANG, FEELING AS THOUGH YOU HAVE NO OTHER CHOICES AND NO OTHER OPTIONS.

>> Braude: DID YOU SAY 3,000 GANGS?

DID YOU SAY 3,000?

>> 3,000 GANG MEMBERS, YES.

>> Braude: 3,000 GANG MEMBERS.

THAT'S INCREDIBLE.

DEVIN, THE GLOBE PIECE YOU GUYS WROTE I THINK IS VERY PERSUASIVE.

HOWEVER, IF YOU'RE NOT DIRECTLY AFFECTED, DID YOU THINK MOST PEOPLE LIKE ME CARE ENOUGH ABOUT OUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS?

OR ARE WE FAR ENOUGH TO PRETEND IT IS THEIR PROBLEM, NOT OURS.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

>> YES.

AS ME AND TITO WERE SPEAKING BEFORE WE GOT ON THE CALL TODAY, WE SPOKE ABOUT THAT.

I HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH MR.

CRAFT, AND HE ALWAYS DESCRIBES ONE THING, ABOUT HOW TO BE A BRIDGE AND HOW WE COULD BE USING DIFFERENT PEOPLE TO BE POSITIVE INFLUENCES TO SOCIETY.

WHEN YOU JUST THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO LOSE THEIR LIVES OR END UP INCARCERATED, WE LOSE VALUABLE PEOPLE WHO COULD BE MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN SOCIETY.

THEY COULD BE DOING SOMETHING POSITIVE, AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT IMPACTS EVERYONE.

YOU'RE A STREET CORNER OR TWO BLOCKS AWAY FROM ANYTHING THAT IS REALLY HAPPENING WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT BOSTON OR THE SURROUNDING AREAS.

SO YOU COULD BE INVOLVED.

AND THAT DIFFERENCE THAT YOU COULD MAKE, NOT JUST CARING ABOUT YOUR FELLOW HUMAN, BUT IT COULD BE ONE DAY A STEP AWAY FROM YOU.

I THINK THAT DIFFERENCE YOU CAN MAKE AND HELP SOMEBODY ELSE'S LIFE BE POSITIVE IS WHAT SHOULD BRING US ALL TO THE TABLE.

>> Braude: I HOPE YOU'RE RIGHT.

TITO, TELL US EXACTLY HOW BOSTON UNCORNERED DOES ITS WORK?

WHAT DO YOU DO?

WHAT'S ITS APPROACH?

>> YEAH.

OUR FIRST REAL MAJOR OUTSIDE OF THE BOX THINKING IS WE HIGHER FORMER CORE INFLUENCES, WHO ARE THE PEOPLE INSIDE THE COMMUNITIES WHO HAVE THIS UNIQUE BALANCE OF HAVING IMPACT IN NETWORKS IN INSIDE SOME OF THESE COMMUNITIES.

THEY HIRE MEN AND WOMEN WHO HAVE WORKED AND LIVED INSIDE THESE COMMUNITIES.

AND IN SOME CASES THEY HAVE HAD A NEGATIVE IMPACT IN THE COMMUNITY, AND NOW THEY WANT TO HEAL.

SO WE HIRE THEM TO CONNECT WITH THE YOUNG PEOPLE INSIDE THEIR COMMUNITIES, AND TO GET THEM INVOLVED IN EDUCATION, POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION, COLLEGE, CERTIFICATE PROGRAMS, AND THE IDEA IS THEY'LL GO BACK INTO THEIR COMMUNITY AND STAY IN THEIR COMMUNITY AND CHANGE THE NARRATIVE FROM THE INSIDE.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT REPRESENTATION MATTERS, AND SO TO SEE PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE YOU AND HAVING ACHIEVED SUCCESS AND HAVING MADE THAT TRANSITION, IT MAKES IT THAT MUCH MORE ATTAINABLE FOR THE YOUNG PEOPLE.

WE HOPE WE CONTINUE TO IMPACT BOSTON AND SOME OF THESE COMMUNITIES BY DESIGN, HISTORICAL DESIGN, SYSTEMIC RACISM -- ALL OF THE PROBLEMS THAT CAME IN, WE HOPE WE CAN DISMAN TELL THEM FROM DISMANTLE THEM FROM THE INSIDE OUT, WITH OTHER PARTNERS LIKE MAYOR WU AND GOVERNOR BAKER, AND ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AND UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM, AND THAT WE CAN HEAL IT, THOUGH.

>> Braude: I WANT TO GET BACK TO WU AND BAKER IN A SECOND.

DEVIN, WHY ARE YOU CONVINCED THAT THIS APPROACH WORKS?

>> I'VE SEEN IT.

I'VE BEEN ABLE TO GO TO BOSTON UNCORNERED, I'VE BEEN ABLE TO BE ON ZOOM CALLS WHERE YOU HAVE MEN AND WOMEN TALKING ABOUT BUYING REAL ESTATE, TAKING ABOUT GRADUATING COLLEGE, TALKING ABOUT THEY HAD DIFFERENT JOB OPPORTUNITIES TO GO EITHER HERE OR THERE, BUT I DECIDED TO COME BACK AND WORK FOR BOSTON UNCORNERED BECAUSE OF THE WAY MY LIFE HAS CHANGED.

I WANT TO SEE SOMEBODY ELSE'S LIFE CHANGE IN THAT SAME WAY.

WHEN YOU CAN LOOK AT A PROBLEM AND SEE A SOLUTION, AND SEE PEOPLE NOT ONLY HAVE THE MINDSET AND THE IDEA TO FIX IT, BUT HAVE ALREADY SHOWED AND DONE IT, IT MAKES YOU WANT TO GET ON BOARD.

AND THAT'S WHY A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, WHETHER IT WAS ANDREA KRAMER OR TOM BRADY OR MR.

CRAFT OR JONATHAN KRAFT -- THAT'S WHY THEY WERE ALL JUMPING TO BE PART OF AN EVENT TO DONATE MONEY BECAUSE THEY SEE THE IMPACT OF WHAT THIS CAN HAVE AND THEY'VE SEEN THE SOLUTIONS RIGHT THERE.

>> Braude: TITO, I ASKED DEVIN A MINUTE AGO DO PEOPLE REALLY CARE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE WHOSE LIVES THEY DON'T THINK AFFECT THEM.

DEVIN THINKS YES.

LET'S ASSUME FOR ARGUMENT SAKE HE IS WRONG, YOU GUYS ALSO MAKE THE FISCAL ARGUMENT AND THE ECONOMIC ARGUMENT, FOR THOSE WHO AREN'T PERSUADED BY THE HUMANITARIAN ONE.

YOU SAID THERE WERE 350 FATALITY SHOOTINGS IN BOSTON SINCE 2015, AND EACH ONE COST THE TAXPAYERS ROUGHLY A MILLION BUCKS.

HOW DOES THAT COME ABOUT?

THAT'S PRETTY SERIOUS MONEY.

HOW DOES THAT ADD UP?

>> WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, FIRST, THE LOSS.

SOMEONE WHO FATALLY PASSES A WAY, THE IMPACT ON THE FAMILY.

AND ALSO PROPERTY VALUES GO DOWN, AND MEDICAL EXPENSES -- MAYBE THEY HAVE INSURANCE, MAYBE THEY DON'T.

SO THERE ARE ALL OF THESE COMPOUNDING LAYERS THAT ADD ON TO IT.

IT IS NOT JUST THE INDIVIDUAL WHO ACTUALLY GETS SHOT OR KILLED, WHICH IS A TERRIBLE SITUATION AND SCENARIO, BUT THEN IT TRICKLES OUT, RIGHT?

AND IT TRICKLES OUT TO THE REST OF THE PEOPLE IN THAT COMMUNITY.

AND WE HAVE DO A BETTER JOB AT COLLECTIVELY REALIZING THAT THAT IMPACTS US ALL, NOT JUST THE IMMEDIATE FAMILIES OF THE SHOOTER AND THE VICTIM.

>> Braude: TITO, STAYING WITH YOU JUST FOR A SECOND, I UNDERSTAND THE NOTION OF HAVING THESE CORE INFLUENCERS, WHO A YOUNG KID COULD SAY, THAT COULD BE ME IN FIVE YEARS IF I GET MY ACT TOGETHER.

BUT WHEN THEY LOOK AROUND THEM IN THESE INCREDIBLY TROUBLED TIMES, IN EVERY DIRECTION YOU LOOK, LOW-INCOME PEOPLE, LIVING IN DISADVANTAGED NEIGHBORHOODS, ARE ON THE WRONG END OF THE STICK, WHETHER IT IS EDUCATION, PUBLIC HEALTH, COVID -- I CAN GO DOWN THE LIST, AND YOU KNOW IT FAR BETTER THAN I DO.

HOW DO YOU BREAKTHROUGH THAT HOPELESSNESS THAT I'M SURE PERMEATES A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE'S LIVES?

>> A LOT OF LOVE AND PATIENCE.

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.

IN SOME CASES, WE TRY TO PUT A MORALITY LENS ON IT, AND SAY THESE 16, 17, 18-YEAR-OLD YOUNG PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW BETTER, AND THE REALITY IS, THINK ABOUT ALL OF THE STRESSES YOU JUST LISTED, AND ALL OF THOSE STRESSES ARE ON THEIR SHOULDERS.

THINK ABOUT WHEN YOU WERE A TEENAGER, AND THE COMPLICATIONS OF JUST BEING A TEENAGER, LET ALONE ALL OF THESE OTHER PIECES, AND YOU END UP HAVING TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT YOU FEEL ARE THE BEST FOR THE SITUATION AND THE SCENARIO AND THEY AREN'T REALLY.

>> Braude: SO, DEVIN, LAST THING FOR YOU: THE MAYOR AND THE GOVERNOR ARE GOING TO BE A RADIO SHOW ON WEDNESDAY.

WHY DON'T YOU TALK TO THEM RIGHT NOW, AND I'LL PLAY THIS FOR THEM WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON ABOUT WHY WHAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING WITH THIS ORGANIZATION SHOULD MATTER TO AND BE FUNDED BY THEM.

>> THE FIRST THING I WOULD TELL THEM IS JUST THE PEOPLE.

I THINK BOTH OF YOU GUYS CARE AND WANT TO INVEST IN THE PEOPLE OF BOSTON AND THE PEOPLE THAT YOU SERVE.

AND THIS IS WHAT THIS IS TALKING ABOUT.

IT IS TALKING ABOUT IMPACTING NOT JUST GANG MEMBERS, BUT LIKE TITO JUST SPOKE ABOUT, IT IS TALKING ABOUT IMPACTING THEIR FAMILIES, IMPACTING THEIR FRIENDS, IMPACTING THE COMMUNITIES THEY LIVE IN, IMPACTING THE COMMUNITIES THEY COULD BE WORKING IN AND CREATING REVENUE AND CREATING A PROFIT FOR THEIR FAMILIES AND THEMSELVES.

SO I THINK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PEOPLE AND WE TALK ABOUT POSITIONS OF POWER, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SERVANTHOOD AND SERVING OTHERS, IT IS THE IDEA OF THINKING ABOUT WHAT IS BEST FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

I THINK BOTH OF THESE INDIVIDUALS, GOVERNOR BAKER AND MAYOR WU, IT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU TWO ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT, SOMETHING YOU'VE SHOWN YOU WANT TO DO.

AND I THINK BOSTON UNCORNERED GIVES US A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO GET INVOLVED IN A WAY THAT THE SOLUTION HAS ALREADY BEEN FUND.

NOW IT JUST NEEDS SUPPORT.

WE NEED SUPPORT FROM SO MANY DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS TO MAKE AN EVEN BIGGER IMPACT.

I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS LISTENING AND BEING PART OF THE CHANGE.

>> Braude: IT CONVINCED ME.

LET'S SEE HOW IT DOES WITH THOSE TWO.

TITO SANTOSSILVA AND DEVIN McCOURTY, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR WORK AND YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THE WORK "BOSTON UNCORNERED" IS DOING, VISIT uncornered.org.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

SENATOR EDWARD MARKEY JOINS ME ON JUST WHAT JOE BIDEN'S KEY PIECES OF LEGISLATION MEAN FOR US HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, THE GROWING LIST OF DEMANDS FROM SENATOR JOE MANCHIN, AND THE HARD-FOUGHT BATTLE TO CONFIRM RACHAEL ROLLINS AS U.S. ATTORNEY.

THAT AND MORE TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND PLEASE STAY SAFE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org