♪ (Music playing) ♪ - Hi everyone I am Kyle Dyer and welcome to Colorado Inside Out on this Friday, December 29 for this last show of 2023 we are looking back but also looking forward into the new year and for that I'm joined by Patty Calhoun founder and editor of Westward.

Krista Kafer columnist with the Denver Post, and Eric Sondermann Colorado Politics and the Denver Springs Gazette and Jesse Paul political reporter at the Colorado Sun.

I went back and looked at this year's show from last year, and looked at what we were looking forward to.

Okay, so things are different.

Denver was getting a new mayor at this time last year, and there were 24 candidates at the time, and they were not talking about the new mayor tackling homelessness.

It was economic development, and also crime that we were talking about.

There were big issues.

We worry about the quality of education because tests were showing kids were not doing well post pandemic, there was talk about school safety and no talk about dysfunctional school boards at that time a year ago and when it came to legislature we are talking about how Democrats should be careful and not push too many of their ideas forward and work too much with the governor.

Well there was a lot of fighting this past year right?

We did not know the Democrats would challenge each other, now the only topic that is somewhat the same and Krista you talked a lot about this on the show last year was the state of the Republican Party in Colorado and how it had to improve.

I will let you talk about that coming up in this week's show.

Alright so right off the bat looking forward to January 1, I would guess a lot of people will be looking at mayor Mike Johnston and whether he met his goal of reaching 1000 people being taken off the streets into temporary housing.

- His house 1000 initiative which calls for 1000 people being housed by the end of 23, incredibly ambitious.

He of course did run on that, he made it his biggest platform and as the campaign continued last year, not in December but January February, we were hearing a lot about homelessness and how people would deal with it and whether or not the camping ban should be followed and whether or not they should be housed, so Mike Johnston made that the major platform of his campaign and whether that made the difference in him being elected or whether it was just luck of the draw with it turning into 17 candidates on the following ballot, that is what people are looking for, will he make good on this first promise?

Right now we feel that we are not even halfway there but by the 29th and by this night, he might make it.

I doubt it.

But I think it will be how he explains how close he came that'll be really critical.

- He's really trying.

His administration is trying Krista.

- He is trying and that's a laudable goal but I think it's too early to tell whether it successful so we get a thousand people into housing and some of those folks are going to take advantage of that it's going to be a wonderful reset, a chance to have stability and a chance to have a job to get sober and mental health services, to move forward in life and I have no doubt that a percentage will take advantage of that.

Some of those folks that are going to continue to be back out in the streets begging and doing drugs, not getting a job, not getting the help that's being offered.

I appreciate what neighboring cities mayor Mike Hoffman pointed out that while Johnson laudably is looking at the number people off the street as being a measure of success, what Mike Hoffman in Aurora is looking at is how many people are off of the streets not merely in housing that are employed and self-sufficient and so that's why say January 1 is way too early to decide whether this is the successful endeavor.

We need to see long-term, are these folks still housed but are they also employed sober, working and self-sufficient?

And right now we have no way of knowing.

- Eric.

- Krista is absolutely right, this is an interim goal in the end of December, and the long-term answer is still out there in the long term evaluation, is still out there as to Mike Johnston's success, first off if we did not talk about homelessness 12 months ago, around this table we were asleep at the switch because it did not just come upon us in 2023, Lord knows.

I think the city if Mike Johnston comes close to his thousand number but it does not get there, I think the city will give him some grace the voters of Denver will give him some grace I will give him grace because it's been certainly a valiant effort, I think the harder one is not the one year pledge of a thousand or the first year pledge of a thousand, it's the four year pledge of being done with homelessness in Denver and that goes from the ambitious category to the completely unrealistic category.

And I think that is going to be a harder judgment in the voters of Denver are going to make a harder judgment on that, I think the other issue Kyle is sort of the Balkanization of the city by Johnston putting so much attention to the homeless issue, he is sweeping employees from other departments to work on getting to a thousand, he is sweeping money from other departmental budgets, to go into this program and then earlier this month, we obviously have the whole issue of migrants being homeless people being kicked out of long-term stay kinds of places to house migrants which is completely balkanizing the issue, and does not really move the ball forward.

We are going to be talking about this you can put it into the bank throughout 2024.

- I think like Patty was saying we weren't talking about it because then we are talking about how many people were in the mayor's race and not the substance of the campaigns that came early in the new year.

Jesse.

- I think building off what Eric had to say I think it's interesting to look at this as a political goal what the voters will say, and I don't know if the voters of Denver care if it's 999 housed 1001 folks who are housed they really just want to see improvement upon their neighbors and a different situation downtown so whether or not the mayor gets to this goal I don't know if it matters to the voters again he's got a long time before he has to worry about reelection.

And again Eric is the political strategist he's worked on campaigns before and I think it's dangerous for politicians to make these promise whether it's a thousand or thousand one you see the governor make these kind of promises he wants to make Colorado one of the 10 safest states and you open yourself up to immediate criticism and tangible effects how does it affect people's lives as to whether or not you're trying to check that box off the list.

So I think Denver voters would be happy just to see some improvement whether it's a thousand or not it will be folks like us who make that determination.

- And just to play off what Eric did say last year this time we were so concerned about the influx of migrants who would come in December.

The mystery buses and now we see the migrant issue clashing with the homeless issue because of limited beds because it's making it more complicated and I really don't think we realized how bad it was going to get.

- Jesse was talking about voters in 2024 Coloradans will vote three different times.

The first one being the March presidential primary and then the June 25th state primary and the general election November 5.

We will be electing a president, congressional representatives, the list goes on and on initiative state level leaders.

Krista this will be a big year.

- Let's go full on crazy, let's kick sanity to the curb and go full on outrage.

And I say this because if it's going to be what kind of show, you know what word I'm thinking of, I say let it fly, let's go full on and I'm hoping the Republicans field the craziest candidates not just your Kari Lake level nut jobs and of course I'm referring to the Arizona Gov., who governor candidate never will be governor, who came and spoke for the party, but I think demented would be kind of the standard and not just for Republicans I think the Democrats have taken notice, and we want that kind of attention as well, we need that kind of press so we got Elizabeth Epps, Tim Hernandez, I think Tae Anderson is thinking he's going to run, but the more the better.

- I love the sarcasm, what was it that Krista was called, Democratic henchmen?

I dressed like a henchman.

I'll carry an ax.

- Eric.

- You might be dressed like a henchman I don't think you're dressed like a Democrat, no reasonable person ever says Krista Kafer yeah she's a Democrat, and I guess my comment would be be careful what you wish for, but then on the other hand, what she has sarcastically pointed to is sort of lay of the land these days and it's on both sides of the aisle, now let's not an equivalency one side of the aisle has a worst case debate than the other, but as long as Elizabeth Epps and Tim Hernandez and on and on and on are out there, and gaining prominence and gaining numbers and in their respective caucuses, it is not a pretty lay of the land they are two races that I think are going to dominate this year, leaving the presidential race in Colorado aside the two races and they're both going to be primaries and one may turn into a general, our congressional district 3, the race to see if Lauren Boebert can hold onto the seat with the odds maybe stacked up against her, and then congressional district 4 where Ken Buck is stepping aside.

Those will be lively primaries whoever comes out of congressional district 4 is likely to win in November, if Boebert survives congressional district 3 that's only half her job and she has a viable Democrat if Jeff Heard comes out of the congressional district 3, he will be the new congressperson for the Western slope.

- Yes I would say I declare 2024 the year of an interesting primary so sticking with CD3 there's an interesting dynamic going on there.

You are seeing a lot of establishment where Republicans get behind Jeff Heard, against Lauren Boebert and I question if those folks have enough mainstay or voice in that district in order to push him over the edge, I talked to folks he's kind of the anti-Boebert in terms of more subdued and less loud, and prominent, so it will be an interesting race there.

CD4 certainly interesting congressional district 8 really interesting republican primary and then you have the legislative primaries that we started to talk about then moving forward with the general election CD3 will be interesting if it is Boebert, CD8 will be interesting, not so many legislative races that will be interesting but a lot about measures that could really change Colorado whether it's the abortion-rights measure and property taxes will be on there, and then there could be a complete election overhaul that's debated at the ballot in November 2024.

So the year of the primary and then maybe ballot measures will be the focus in November.

- Well unlike Krista, I would dearly love and that could be a henchman, but I would dearly love not to have the word demented or dementia involved in the presidential race.

I'd like to see candidates where we actually can say these are reasonable human beings that we would like to see in the White House.

For a long time.

Other than that, I'm also interested in what's going to happen to people like Ken Buck, what's their next career path that's gonna be fascinating.

I think the best thing he's done to really in congress is he's leaving it, and definitely taking no prisoners and who knows what Lauren Boebert will say.

If and when she's defeated.

But the upcoming legislation ballot measures as Jesse says are going to be theories plan, will we go for rank choice voting, for these different types of primaries.

People are so fed up with how the elections have been going that they might be willing to go out on a limb and vote something very new.

- And I would like to talk about the legislature in the new year.

Could there be more bills or ideas that will be voted on that we have not thought of?

What do we expect from the legislature this year?

- You can go to the bank that there will be stuff out of left field and right field that we have not been talking about but I'm gonna take off on what the four issues of legislature are not necessarily in this order but one is property taxes the special session addressed them, but people are going to get their property tax bills next February and they are going to be shocked and they're going to be outraged and energized, and the legislature's going to be called upon to act further, and there's going to be ballot issues hanging over the legislature's head, if they do not act.

Second it's going to be the whole housing land use issue where Polis got crosswised with the local governments but Polis I don't think is backing off, along with plenty of Democratic sponsors of the bill, third it's what I put under the heading of progressive excess and I'm not sure what that looks like but the Epps and Hernandez and really we focus on those two but there are plenty of others fellow travelers that go with them, and some things up their sleeves, the fourth one is just Jared Polis himself and how he plays his cards with, who would've ever guessed that Jared Polis very progressive congressperson from Boulder Colorado first gay governor elected in the country has become a moderating influence in his own caucus.

That's the role he's now playing.

It'd be interesting to see how he plays his cards.

- I want your insight because you will be living at the statehouse during this period.

- I think housing really is the bottom line, Democrats really declare 2023 the year of housing at the capital, and had almost nothing to show for it and I think that is a major failure for their own policy goals and they will have to tackle in 2024 whether it's land-use or property taxes I think they are both in the housing bucket or something we've never seen before a lot of the progressive conversation we will see at the capital this year will be about housing, whether rent control policies or efforts to limit or prevent evictions and some HOA stuff will come up.

And a lot of the other topics, gun issues.

I think that's mostly a settled issue.

Democrats have had the majority for now.

They tackled abortion and it will be a constitutional measure on the 24 ballot, and housing is really going to be the dividing line in the capital, the thing that's going to really drive folks.

- I might add water as a fifth to your points there, Eric and we had a reprieve this year, a little bit more snowpack last winter, a little bit more of a reprieve in the general situation with not just the Colorado River but the other basins and making sure that we have enough water for our cities which are still growing and also agriculture I'm not sure what the legislature can do but it is a perennial problem and is something we want to get ahead of and not be downriver.

- And they have this water task force that they formed that's working to come up with this solution so it's a very good point.

- What do you expect out of the legislature out of the new year?

- To add to this we also have climate change and the Excel getting rid of coal-fired plants, and the oil and gas fights, there will still be plenty of environmental fights that will not just be over water.

- So all of you are writers, so I'm curious, when you are writing and trying to think of the next thing to write, what is the next thing that we are not thinking of that you think might be out there in 2024 and I'm gonna start with you Jesse.

- We might be thinking about this but I think it's an interesting thing, kind of sticking with the legislative lens, the progressive versus moderate, at the capital's going to be the dominating story of the session, housing might be the policy topic, but I think this political dynamic is really what will be set up, we have a new Senate Majority Leader whose maybe leaning towards progressive politics in the Senate, and then you've got now a pretty clear dividing line in the Colorado house and you're starting to see some factions built there and again it's an election year so you will start to see some stuff around that, I think how policies are shaped and discussed and passed by the legislature will be defined by these personal, personnel dynamics that will be kind of sharp with the legislator this year.

And so if the 2023 legislative session was intense the capitalizing of the 2024 one is already setting up to be even more intense.

- I remember you sitting here being like I've never seen it like this.

Are you ready for the January?

- No.

Not yet.

- Okay, Patty, what is out there that we are not thinking of?

- It's like the old adage you don't want to see sausage being made much less legislation we are going to see everything dumped into the legislature, I don't think it's just going to be it will be what comes off the progressives and Republicans and conservatives who are going to fight against it, we will see more issues about transgender, or more challenges to what people can and can't sell, and who they can you can't sell to, we have an argument in Jeff Co. about does an 11-year-old have to share a bed or room with another 11-year-old, with the physical gender issue he was born with, you got these coming up these are not going to stop because people have discovered that they make a lot of hay or a lot of sausage when they start talking about them.

- Don't you wonder what the overall the excess or overreach when the left goes too far even I've got a lot of friends that are Democrats including a lot of the moderate friends who are saying I really don't want my 11-year-old to spend the night in bed with an 11-year-old boy, even if he identifies as a girl he is still a boy.

I don't want sexually explicit books, elementary school, yeah they should be available at the regular library but where are they there?

I don't want to see this anti-Semitism that comes out of this we are going to declare a whole book and to suppress the class and go after them rhetorically at the University, a lot of people that are in the middle think this is kinda gross, but there could be a seat change where people want something new, if we have a reasonable presidential candidate, if we are able to put up some good folks on the right that say hey, like Heard for example going up against Boebert, who say let's go back to normal, let's go back to where we did not need to push a sexual agenda on young kids, let's go back to normal with people just worked and played and hung out together and it was not all of this constant controversy, I think the appetite for outrage eventually gets sated and eventually people say I want to go back to normal.

- Normal would be good in 2024.

- Eric what is out there that you think?

- Normal would be wonderful in 2024.

I would love to write about normal, I mean following Krista we are living in a scary and disturbing time, and so many respects I will just take off a few that could be out there in 2024 one you can bank on is a presidential race like any other presidential race, when can you recall major party candidates who happen to be a former president, maybe a future president, Lord forbid, who's going to spend as much time in criminal court rooms as he is going to spend on the campaign trail and everything that flows from that.

Not mentioning his perhaps likely opponent is well into his 80s at this point, and everything that is attached to that.

Quickly take off two others, what if Ruby Dixon state representative who recently resigned her seat, just because of the incredible vitriolic in politics right now, what if there's another Ruby Dixon or two out there that's just to say this is not worth the price, and third, what if maybe Dick Monfort wakes up one morning and smells the coffee and says maybe I should not be owning this baseball team after all?

- Let me just go back to what is normal and that's one of the things we have to think about, is normal 1960 when it was really rare for women to be in the legislature?

Much less run it be on City Council and much less the majority, so we have to decide at what point and the pendulum always swings.

So we have to be prepared for that.

But let's all pick what is normal.

- Well point well taken Patty.

- So no one said what's out there for the new year, what about the Nuggets repeating?

No one said that.

I'm going for it.

All right now it's time for our panel to share what has been high and low usually we say for the week, I'm saying for the whole year, let's say what do we say good riddance to in 2023?

We will start with you Patty.

- I'm saying good riddance to the last Denver public school board, we have three new people in, people are changing how they behave, but the antics of the school board in 2023, when issues were school safety, did not really deal with that, how about teaching the kids too, so let's have the school board act like adults, and get on with actually educating children in Denver.

- I'm saying good riddance to sanity.

Why not just toss the whole thing overboard.

I was thinking this week I got censored for upholding the Constitution by my own party.

Why hold back?

Let's get rid of the last vestiges of what kept us sane and normal this year.

Let's go full on in 2024.

- I really hope good things for you in the new year for you Krista.

- I think I'll get a new dog.

- That would be awesome.

Okay.

- I'm a little bit worried about my friend here.

- I would love to say good riddance but I'm not sure we will be able to say good riddance to everything that unfolded after October 7.

And I'm not talking simply about the horror in Israel and the horror in Gaza as well, although that is certainly horrific, but everything that it led to in this country, and in other countries as well, in terms of the reappearance and major form of anti-Semitism, and the way everyone has just run to their corners has become a political habit these days, when everything goes on, in the manner in which people have run to their corners, in favor of a very unworthy hero in Hamas is shocking.

- Obviously there's been a lot of awful things that have happened in 2024, so good riddance to nothing I think you have to know where you are coming from in order to move forward and I think that's maybe a personal matter than anything but if we try to forget the things that troubled us in the last year it's impossible for us to move forward and fix things and keep going forward.

- Very wise.

Thank you.

So as we go into 2024, give me a word, a word of the year.

You know how every year they have a word that pops up every year.

What's a word that you can guess will be relevant in 2024?

- I've done variations on this and I would hope that I was not still doing them but trumped it is impossible to imagine think about the kind of effect he has had on this country and will continue to have on this country and on the elections and on the divisiveness, and I just worry that no matter how much people I'm like Krista, we are going for sanity we are going to be stuck getting trumped at every turn by just his effect.

- You cannot say sanity.

New word.

- I sound like I've got a split personality, I'm gonna go with hope.

And I'm gonna go with that because I'm looking around this room and you all can't see the folks in black, but there are wonderful people in this room, wonderful people on this panel all of us are different politically, and yet we actually represent real America as much as I like to make fun of the outreach mongers, this is real life, this is real people, people around this room that do the good work here, and so I do have hope.

I know I said I don't have hope most of the time, but I do.

- Okay.

- My word is wildcard.

I think that's one word.

But if not, spot me.

I think anyone who expects 2024 to unfold in a straight line, and unfold in a predictable way, is in for a rude awakening, even if we end up with Trump and Biden, and let's hope that maybe there's some wildcards between now and then, but the road from getting here to there, is going to be a very jagged and crooked road with plenty of unexpected plot twists and turns.

- Wildcard.

- Maybe building off the wildcard idea, election, it colors everything that I cover at the capital to policy debates in Congress, and important to keep in mind that things might look a certain way now, they could change from one week or one month, so we don't really know what will happen in the next 11 months and I think that's important to keep in mind as we head into the election year.

- I will play off a lot of what you said today, my word is listen, listen to one another and we should start listening to one another if you're not already, and my hope is- to listen.

Then I fell for it.

So my hope for the new year is that we started off with you liking sparkling cider.

Pretend it's champagne.

Yes.

- Yes thank you.

- Why can't we drink on the set?

- I don't know.

- Here's to you guys, and here's like you said, hope in the new year and that everything good is headed our way.

Despite the wildcard and all that.

Cheers.

And here is to all of our viewers out there and listeners on our podcast, thank you for joining us this year, happy new year everybody and here's to 2024 we will see you next year.

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