>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP LIVES OFF ACTUALLY ACTING UNCONVENTIONALLY.

>> GERMANY'S FORMER CHANCELLOR OPENS UP IN A WEARER INTERVIEW ABOUT TRUMP, PUTIN, HER PROUDEST MOMENTS IN HER BIGGEST REGRETS IS THE MOST POWERFUL LEADER IN EUROPE.

>>> DEMOCRACY OF THE THREAT IN SOUTH KOREA, THE PRESIDENT PROCLAIMS MARTIAL LAW BUT PARLIAMENT REJECTS IT.

WE HAVE THE LATEST FROM SEOUL.

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>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I AM CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN NEW YORK.

DEMOCRACY APPEARS UNDER THREAT FROM ASIA WITH SOUTH KOREA ON ANNOUNCING MARTIAL LAW.

IN A MOMENT, WE WILL BRING YOU MY MDX ENTRY WITH GERMANY'S LONGEST SERVING CHANCE, BUT FIRST, TO SEOUL AND THE SHOCKED DECISION BY THE PRESIDENT TO DECLARE MARTIAL LAW FOR THE FIRST TIME IN FOUR DECADES.

PROTESTS ERUPTED AT THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY AND WITHIN HOURS, LAWMAKERS UNANIMOUSLY REJECTED THAT DECLARATION.

SENIOR AMERICAN OFFICIALS SAY THEY ARE VERY CONCERNED BY WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE.

>>> KENNY CHOI IS THE INTERNATIONAL EDITOR FOR ONE OF SOUTH KOREA'S MAJOR NEWSPAPERS AND HE IS JOINING US NOW WITH AN UPDATE FROM SEOUL.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

LET'S JUST GO TO WHAT IS ACTUALLY THE LATEST NEWS AND THAT IS THE PARLIAMENT HAS REJECTED THIS, EVEN MEMBERS OF THE PRESIDENT'S OWN PARTY HAS REJECTED IT AND IT APPEARS THAT AT LEAST SOME OF THE MILITARY ARE WITHDRAWING FROM PARLIAMENT.

WHAT IS THE VERY LATEST FROM YOU WHERE YOU ARE?

>> ACTUALLY, THE MILITARY JUST RETREATED AFTER THE PARLIAMENT MADE A DECISION THAT IT WAS UNLAWFUL TO DECLARE MARTIAL LAW.

SO AT LEAST IT WAS A GOOD THING THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY BLOODSHED OR VIOLENCE FOR THAT MATTER.

YES, IT WAS A VERY SHOCKING USE TO ALL OF SOUTH KOREANS.

NOBODY EXPECTED IT, OUR JOURNALISTS WERE ACTUALLY INFORMED AROUND 9:30 P.M. THAT THE PRESIDENT WILL MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT AND NOBODY KNEW THERE WAS GOING TO BE MARTIAL LAW.

WHEN HE WAS ACTUALLY SAYING IT, EVERYBODY WAS SO SHOCKED.

I NEVER THOUGHT THAT I WOULD SEE THE DAY I WOULD BE LIVING UNDER THE MARTIAL LAW SINCE 1981.

SO IT WAS A COMPLETE SHOCK.

THREE IS THE 12th LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH OR MY FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION WILL BE ALL LIMITED.

I DON'T THINK ANY KOREANS WILL ACCEPT THAT.

SO A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SCRATCHING THEIR HEADS AND THERE IS A BIG QUESTION MARKS, WHY DID THE PRESIDENT MAKE THIS ANNOUNCEMENT?

AND WHAT DID HE REALLY THINK THROUGH?

IT WILL BE A BIG, BIG QUESTION.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH WOULD BE CURTAILED, BECAUSE IT WOULD.

THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH OF THE PRESS WAS ONE OF THOSE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN CURTAILED IF MARTIAL LAW WAS FORCED THROUGH.

WHEN YOU SAY WHY DID THE PRESIDENT DO IT?

I'M JUST GOING TO PLAY A TINY BIT OF WHY HE SAID HE DID IT.

HERE IS A SNIPPET FROM THE SPEECH YOU WERE MENTIONING.

>> I DECLARE AN EMERGENCY MARTIAL LAW TO DEFEND THE REPUBLIC OF KOREA FROM THE DANGER OF NORTH KOREAN COMMUNIST FORCES.

TO ERADICATE THE SHAMELESS PRO NORTH KOREAN FORCES THAT ARE PLUNDERING THE FREEDOM AND HAPPINESS OF OUR PEOPLE AT ONCE AND TO PROTECT THE FREE CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER.

>> KENNETH CHOI, THOSE ARE THE TYPICAL WORDS OF ANYONE WHO TRIES TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, BLAMING COMMUNISTS, BLAMING THE ENEMY, BLAMING -- TRYING TO SAY THEY ARE PROTECTING THEIR OWN CONSTITUTION.

ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT HE RAISED THE SPECTER OF NORTH KOREANS, BASICALLY AFFECTING HIS AND THOSE IN SOUTH KOREA IN NORTH KOREA AND AGENTS BEING A PROBLEM HERE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, HE COULD HAVE SAID THAT BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK, PROBABLY NOT THAT MANY PEOPLE IN SOUTH KOREA WILL BELIEVE HIM THAT THESE SMITH KOREAN AGENTS ARE CRUMBLING OUR SOCIETY DOWN TO TRASH.

IT IS A VIBRANT DEMOCRACY, WE HAVE RULES OF LAW.

INSTITUTIONS DO THEIR JOBS SO NOT MANY KOREANS WILL BUY THAT ARGUMENT.

I AM REALLY SURPRISED HE ACTUALLY BROUGHT THAT UP BECAUSE HE IS, THERE ARE SOME ELEMENTS IN RECENT INVESTIGATIONS THAT THERE WERE SOME NORTH KOREAN AGENTS PLAYING IN SOUTH KOREA, MAJOR LABOR UNIONS AND SO ON.

BUT IT COULD BE CONTAINED.

MARTIAL LAW IS NOT GOING TO BE THE ANSWER TO RESOLVE ALL THESE ISSUES.

SO I THINK THE VALUE OF DEMOCRACY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN WHAT HE ACTUALLY BELIEVED THAT HE WOULD DO.

>> KENNETH CHOI, IT IS THE EARLY HOURS THERE AND WE HAVE HAD THE PARLIAMENT AS WE STARTED SAYING HAS REJECTED THIS DECREE.

THE MILITARY APPARENTLY STARTED WITHDRAWING.

IS MARTIAL LAW IN PLACE?

WHAT IS THE ACTUAL SITUATION RIGHT NOW?

AND WITHOUT THE MILITARY, WHAT CAN THE PRESIDENT DO?

>> PRACTICALLY NOTHING, IN MY OPINION.

I JUST LOOKED OUT THE WINDOW, TRAFFIC IS GOING NORMAL, EVERYTHING SEEMS OKAY.

SO THE POLICE IS NOT MOVING, THE MILITARY IS NOT MOVING.

SO I AM NOT SURE WHAT TOOL THE PRESIDENT HAS.

MY GUESS IS THAT HE PROBABLY HAS TO ACCEPT WHAT THE PARLIAMENT -- PARLIAMENT'S DECISION.

AND NEGATE THE WHOLE THING.

AND HE WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TO GO THROUGH A ROUGH TIED AHEAD.

>> HIS FATE MAY SOMEWHAT BE IN QUESTION.

IT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING TO WATCH.

KENNETH CHOI, THANK YOU SO MUCH, FROM ONE OF SOUTH KOREA'S MOST IMPORTANT NEWSPAPERS AND LATER IN THE PROGRAM, WE WILL HEAR FROM SOUTH KOREA'S FORMER FOREIGN MINISTER ABOUT ALL OF THIS.

BUT FIRST, DONALD TRUMP'S RETURN TO THE WHITE HOUSE SIGNALS IN MANY WAYS, THE DECISIVE END OF AN ERA, WITH POPULIST NATIONALISM AND A REJECTION OF THE STATUS QUO AHEAD.

LYNN TRUMP FIRST BECAME PRESIDENT IN 2016, HIS PREDECESSOR, BARACK OBAMA, PRIVATELY TOLD GERMANY'S CHANCELLOR, ANGELA MERKEL, THAT SHE WAS HAVING TO BE THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD.

BUT EIGHT YEARS LATER, IT SEEMS ALL THAT SHE WORKED FOR, MULTILATERALISM, STRONG ALLIANCES, ARE ON THE WAY OUT IN FAVOR OF MORE HARD-LINE MOVEMENTS ON TRADE, MIGRATION AND MUCH MORE.

ANGELA MERKEL WAS AT THE HELM OF EUROPE FOR 16 YEARS, ONE OF THE LONGEST-SERVING AND MOST POWERFUL EUROPEAN LEADERS .

SHE WORKED WITH FOUR U.S. PRESIDENTS , BUSH, OBAMA, TRUMP AND BIDEN.

SHE GREW UP IN COMMUNIST EAST GERMANY, BEHIND WHAT WAS THEN THE IRON CURTAIN.

SHE WAS A SCIENTIST BY TRAINING AND SHE GOVERNED BASED ON FACTS, COMPROMISE AND PRAGMATISM.

ANGELA MERKEL IS NOW OPENING UP ABOUT HER TIME IN POWER, DISHING ON TRUMP, PUTIN AND SOME OF HER LEGACY DEFINING DECISIONS LIKE WELCOMING MORE THAN 1 MILLION SYRIAN REFUGEES INTO GERMANY.

AND I AM JUST BACK FROM WASHINGTON WHERE I CAUGHT UP WITH HER ON HER FREEDOM BOOK TOUR.

CHANCELLOR ANGELA MERKEL, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

WHEN I LAST INTERVIEWED YOU JUST BEFORE YOUR RETIREMENT, IT WAS THE HEYDAY, IT WAS LIBERAL DEMOCRACY WAS DOING PRETTY WELL , YOU HAD INVITED, OR ACCEPTED, ABOUT 1 MILLION REFUGEES.

THAT WAS STILL CONSIDERED SOMETHING INCREDIBLY COMPASSIONATE AND PRAGMATIC.

YOU HAD A VERY BOOMING TRADE.

IT IS ALMOST THE THREE YEARS SINCE YOU HAVE LEFT OFFICE, ALL OF THIS IS IN QUESTION.

THE REFUGEES HAVE MADE A BIG, BIG POWER TO THE FAR RIGHT IN YOUR COUNTRY, TO THE FAR RIGHT IN THIS COUNTRY AND AROUND EUROPE.

TRADE IS VERY DIFFICULT NOW, YOU HAD YOKED YOUR TRADE TO CHINA, THAT IS A BIG ISSUE RIGHT NOW.

YOUR ENERGY TO RUSSIA, THAT IS A BIG ISSUE RIGHT NOW.

YOU SAID YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU DID WELL AND SOME OF YOUR MISJUDGMENTS.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THE MISJUDGMENTS YOU MADE WERE?

IN THAT GROUP OF THINGS THAT I JUST SAID?

>> I THINK I AM TRYING TO DO THAT IN THIS BOOK.

WE ALWAYS HAVE TO LOOK AT MATTERS AS -- UNDER THE CONDITIONS THAT WE WERE IN THIN.

I DON'T THINK IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO SAY FROM TODAY'S VANTAGE POINTS IN HINDSIGHT WHAT WOULD ONE HAVE DONE THEN?

BECAUSE THAT WAS NOT THE REALITY OF THE DAY.

SO THE FIRST THING I WOULD LIKE TO SAY IS THAT FOR ME IT WAS A VERY GOOD EXPERIENCE WHEN THIS MASS OF SYRIAN REFUGEES CAME TO OUR COUNTRY, THAT THERE WAS A GREAT READINESS BY THE PEOPLE, BUT THE GERMAN PEOPLE, TO WELCOME THAT, THAT ALSO OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE TO REDUCE ILLEGAL MIGRATION.

THAT IS A PROBLEM YOU HAVE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AS WELL.

AT THE TIME, I CAME TO THIS AGREEMENT WITH TURKEY, WHICH WORKED VERY WELL.

ILLEGAL MIGRATION WAS REDUCED BY 95% DUE TO THIS AND THEN IN THE MEANTIME WE ACCEPTED ABOUT 1 MILLION UKRAINIAN REFUGEES WHICH WAS A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT AND IT WAS PROBABLY WELCOMED.

BUT THE RIGHT-WING PARTIES, THAT IS THROUGH THE FD, WOULD STRENGTHEN YOU TO THIS.

BUT I NEED TO POINT OUT THAT WHEN I LEFT OFFICE, THEY HOVERED AROUND 11%, NOT 18%.

SO A LOT OF OTHER THINGS PROBABLY HAPPENED SINCE TO MAKE THEM THAT STRONG.

RUSSIA WHICH YOU MENTIONED AS WELL, THAT IS SORT OF A SEPARATE CHAPTER, 2008 AT THE VERY LATEST.

AT ONCE WE HAD AFTER THE BUCHAREST/NATO SUMMIT, WE KNEW THERE WERE GREAT TENSIONS.

IN MY APPROACH AT THE TIME WAS TO TRY AND BRING ABOUT A PREVENTION OF THAT SORT OF WAR THAT WE HAD NOW SUITABLE MEDIC MEANS.

I THINK THE COVID PANDEMIC IN THE WAY REALLY WAS THE NAIL TO THE COFFIN OF THESE DIPLOMATIC ATTEMPTS BECAUSE PUTIN WAS VERY -- HAD A PHOBIA.

HE DIDN'T WANT TO GET INFECTED BY COVID SO HE DIDN'T WANT TO ENTER INTO DIPLOMATIC TALKS, DID NOT WANT TO MEET ANYONE THEN DUE TO THE WAR OF AGGRESSION AGAINST UKRAINE AND SOMETHING THAT BROUGHT ALL OF US CLOSER TO GREAT GLOBAL CONFRONTATION.

>> I'M GOING TO DIG DEEPER INTO PUTIN BECAUSE IT IS FASCINATING COME YOUR INSIGHTS, YOUR MEETINGS AND THE THINGS THEY WRITE ABOUT.

YOU'RE NOT SHY ABOUT SAYING QUITE A LOT OF REALLY INTERESTING THINGS THAT YOU NEVER WOULD HAVE SAT IN OFFICE, BUT ALSO WE ARE IN THE UNITED STATES, THERE IS A NEW PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WHO TAKES OFFICE IN JANUARY, DONALD TRUMP.

YOU WORKED WITH HIM WANTS.

I WANT TO START SORT OF AT THE BEGINNING AND THERE HAS BEEN A LOT MADE AND YOU HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT IT, YOU ARE ONE OF THE FIRST WORLD LEADERS TO MEET HIM.

YOU CAME TO WASHINGTON.

AND OUT OF SIGHT OF THE CAMERAS, YOU CAN'T COMMUTED YOUR THING, ETC.

INSIDE OF THE CAMERAS AND THE FAMOUS OVER -- OVAL OFFICE HE DID NOT WANT TO SHAKE HANDS WITH YOU AND EVEN THOUGH YOU ASKED HIM KIND OF DISCREETLY, HE JUST REFUSED POINT BLANK AND KEPT LOOKING AT THE CAMERAS AND I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE YOU SAID HE WANTED TO CREATE CONVERSATION FODDER THROUGH HIS BEHAVIOR.

WHAT I THOUGHT I WAS HAVING A DISCUSSION WITH SOMEONE COMPLETELY NORMAL.

IS HE NOT COMPLETELY NORMAL IN YOUR VIEW?

>> I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP LIVES OFF ACTUALLY ACTING UNCONVENTIONALLY AND IN THIS WAY DRAWS THE ATTENTION OF PEOPLE TO HIMSELF.

EITHER HE SHOOK THE HANDS OF SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES THREE TIMES LONGER THAN YOU USUALLY DO OR WITH ME, HE DID NOT DO IT AT ALL.

AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I HAD FORGOTTEN, NORMALLY YOU WOULD SHAKE HANDS AND THAT IS IT.

BUT WHEN YOU'RE IN THIS SITUATION AND YOU DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT, WITH HIM, ALL OF THESE EXTERNAL THINGS, THESE GESTURES, ALL WERE PART OF A STATEMENT BECAUSE HE WANTED TO VERY CLEARLY SHOW THAT OUTSIDE OF POLITICAL TALKS IN THESE SITUATIONS, HE PUTS DOWN THE MARKER, WHATEVER HE MEANS WITH IT.

>> YOU ALSO DESCRIBE HIM AS I DEALT -- IN FACT, HE DEALT WITH EMOTIONS.

HOW DID THAT AFFECT SOME OF THE KEY ISSUES YOU WERE TRYING TO DEAL WITH?

HIS EMOTIONAL VIEW OF POLITICS?

>> I WOULD SAY LOOKING BACK, WE, AND I AM ALSO SPEAKING HERE OF NATO MEMBERS AND U MEMBERS, WE WERE ACTUALLY ABLE TO GET TO SENSIBLE AGREEMENTS WITH HIM.

BUT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT TARIFFS ON STEEL, FOR EXAMPLE, AT FIRST THEY WERE ONLY TALKING ABOUT CHINA AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE SUBSIDIES THAT CHINA INJECTS INTO THE STEEL INDUSTRY AND ALL OF A SUDDEN WE WERE ALSO COVERED BY TERRACE AND THESE TERRORISTS ARE STILL IN PLACE TODAY, UNFORTUNATELY.

BUT THEN HE WANTED TO PUT DOWN A MARKER, MAKE A STATEMENT ON THIS.

BUT IN SPITE OF ALL ADVERSITY, WE WERE NATO MEMBERS, ABLE TO PURSUE NATO IN A SENSIBLE WAY AND THIS HAPPENS ALSO IN THE NEXT FOUR YEARS TO COME.

>> REMEMBER VERY DISTINCTIVE WHEN DONALD TRUMP WAS FIRST ELECTED, YOU DID -- YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE TO ACTUALLY WELCOME HIS ELECTION CONDITIONALLY.

IN OTHER WORDS, BASED ON THE RESPECT AND THE ADHERENCE TO MUTUAL VALUES, DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM, DIVERSITY, RULE OF LAW, HUMAN LIGHTS, ETC.

I JUST WONDER WHETHER YOU THOUGHT HE DID ACT IN THAT WAY AND ESPECIALLY BECAUSE HE SAID HE WAS CLEARLY FASCINATED BY THE RUSSIAN PRESIDENT, IN THE YEARS THAT FOLLOWED I RECEIVED THE DISTINCT IMPRESSION THAT HE WAS CAPTIVATED BY POLITICIANS WITH AUTOCRATIC AND DICTATORIAL TRAITS.

HOW DID THAT MANIFEST ITSELF TO YOU?

>> WELL, IN THE WAY THAT HE SPOKE ABOUT PUTIN, THE WAY THAT HE SPOKE ABOUT THE NORTH KOREAN PRESIDENT, OBVIOUSLY APART FROM CRITICAL REMARKS HE MADE, THERE WAS ALWAYS A KIND OF FASCINATION AT THE SHEER POWER OF WHAT THESE PEOPLE CONTINUE.

SO MY IMPRESSION ALWAYS WAS THAT HE DREAMT OF ACTUALLY OVERWRITING, MAYBE, ALL THOSE PROMONTORY BODIES THAT HE FELT WERE IN A WAY AN ENCUMBRANCE UPON HIM AND THAT HE WANTED TO DECIDE MATTERS ON HIS OWN AND IN A DEMOCRACY.

WELCOME YOU CANNOT RECONCILE THAT WITH DEMOCRATIC VALUES.

>> AND ASK YOU?

IT JUST POPPED INTO MY HEAD, HIS FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, JOHN KELLY, WHO WAS A MARINE GENERAL, HE ACTUALLY SAID THAT DONALD TRUMP HAD EXPRESSED INTEREST, APPROVAL, OF GENERALS.

I WISH MY POLITICIANS, MY MILITARY, WERE LIKE THE GERMAN GENERALS.

DOES THAT SURPRISE YOU THAT HE WOULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> HONESTLY SPEAKING, I NEVER HEARD THIS AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO MAKE ANY COMMENT ON THIS.

I SAID THAT HE WAS FASCINATED NOT TOO MUCH CODETERMINATION, AS IT WERE, ON TOO MANY OTHER PEOPLE HAVING A SAY, HE WANTED TO BE THE PERSON WHO MAKES THE JUDGMENT AND THE CALL.

BUT I THINK IF YOU APPROACH THE ONES YOU APPROACHED HIM WITHOUT ANY FEAR AND WAS A CLEAR-CUT STRATEGY, HE LISTENED.

AND I THINK HE SMELLS WHEN PEOPLE ARE A LITTLE BIT AFRAID OF HIM.

AND WHEN YOU ARE NOT, THEN YOU CAN ENTER INTO TALKS WITH HIM.

>> AND YOU ARE NOT?

>> NO, I WAS THE ELECTED CHANCELLOR OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF GERMANY.

I MEAN, WE ARE NOT A NEGLIGIBLE COUNTRY, WE HAVE OUR OWN VESTED INTERESTS AND I WAS ALWAYS GUIDED BY THESE NATIONAL INTERESTS.

I THINK THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ARE SUCH AN IMPORTANT POWER, A SUPERPOWER.

BUT WE IN EUROPE ARE ALSO IMPORTANT.

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA CANNOT DO THINGS ON THEIR OWN COMPLETELY.

WE HAVE AN ALLIANCE.

WE HAVE NATO TOGETHER.

SO THIS IS NOT JUST SOMETHING WHERE WE OWE SOMETHING TO THE AMERICANS AS DONALD TRUMP QUITE OFTEN SAID BUT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA TOO MUCH HAS -- MUST HAVE A VESTED INTEREST, THAT WOULD BE MY ADVICE.

WHEN WE STAND TOGETHER, WE ARE SIMPLY STRONGER IN THERE ARE SO MANY IN THE WORLD WHO DO NOT WANT DEMOCRACY, SO STRENGTH IS IMPORTANT IN THIS.

>> YOU AND PRESIDENT OBAMA DID WRITE AN OP-ED SAYING WHEN WE STAND TOGETHER WE ARE STRONGER.

BUT YOU ALSO HAVE WRITTEN IN YOUR BOOK ABOUT WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO NEGOTIATE WITH DONALD TRUMP.

ALL OF THIS IS IMPORTANT, NOT JUST TO LOOK BACK BUT TO LOOK FORWARD BECAUSE YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT TARIFFS, WHICH HE HAS THREATENED ALREADY, NOT EVEN AN OFFICE, YET, TO STOP HUGE TARIFFS ON MANY, MANY DIFFERENT COUNTRIES INCLUDING POSSIBLY EUROPE.

AND YOU HAVE DESCRIBED HIM AS A NEGOTIATOR WHO DIDN'T SEE A WIN- WIN SITUATION.

TELL ME HOW HE CAME ACROSS AS A NEGOTIATOR?

>> FOR ME, IT WAS CLEAR IT WAS HIM, THERE WILL NOT BE A FREE- TRADE AGREEMENT FOR EXAMPLE BETWEEN THE EUROPEAN UNION AND THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA WE HAD TRIED TO COME TO THIS TRANSATLANTIC TRADE AGREEMENT, WE NEGOTIATED THAT AND I DID NOT THINK THAT THIS WAS POSSIBLE WITH DONALD TRUMP.

I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, DONALD TRUMP WAS ALWAYS WAY WHAT HIS ACTIONS MEAN FOR THE AMERICAN VOTER AND FOR THE AMERICAN CITIZEN, AND WE THAT IN THE BALANCE, AND ONE OF THE ISSUES HERE ARE HIGH PRICES.

SO IF I WERE TO IMPOSE TARIFFS ON COUNTRIES WHERE I MIGHT BE ABLE TO BUY THINGS CHEAPLY DUE TO THE TARIFFS PRICES WILL RISE, IT WILL BE DIFFICULT FOR SOME SUCH AS PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HE DID NOT WANT PRICES TO RISE.

AT LEAST NOT YEARS AGO.

SO THERE WILL BE BIG DISCUSSIONS OVER TARIFFS AND THE IMPACT OF THAT, THAT IS VERY CLEAR, BUT PRESIDENT TRUMP ALWAYS SAID TO HIS VOTERS, ALSO DURING HIS FIRST TERM IN OFFICE, THAT HE WILL HAVE A BETTER LIFE DUE TO HIM, IF THEY VOTE FOR HIM.

SO THERE ARE VERY GOOD REASONS TO LOOK AT THE WORLD BANK SORT OF LINKED BY ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT FUNDS.

THE UNITED STATES DOES NOT HAVE ALL THESE RAW MATERIALS AND RESOURCES THEY NEED FOR PROTECTION ON THEIR OWN.

THEY NEED TO -- >> YOU HAVE SAID THAT HE HAS A NATIONALISTIC TONE AND THAT A LOT OF HIS NEGOTIATIONS INVOLVE A ZERO-SUM GAME.

THAT FOR HIM TO WIN THE OTHER PERSON HAD TO LOSE, PERIOD, END OF STORY.

IS THAT CONSTRUCTIVE IN DIPLOMACY OR TRADE NEGOTIATIONS?

>> IT IS NOT MY CONVICTION.

I AM CONVINCED THAT THROUGH WISE COMPROMISES, YOU CAN BRING ABOUT WIN-WIN SITUATIONS.

SITUATIONS WHERE THE WHOLE WORLD BENEFITS.

AND WHEN SELF ALSO BENEFITS FROM THAT.

I AM SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY GREATLY RESPECTS INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS, UNITED NATIONS, THE WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATIONS AND OTHERS, I THINK THEY ARE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND ALL OF US , WHICH HAS RECEDED INTO THE BACKGROUND, THAT THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES OUR CLIMATE CHANGE AND THE LOSS OF BIODIVERSITY.

HUMAN BEING GETS MUCH MORE VULNERABLE DUE TO THIS AND CHINA, THE BIGGEST EMITTER, WE HAVE TO HAVE THEM IN ON THIS BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE PROGRESS ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

AND MAYBE, YOU MAY IN THE SHORT TERM, WIN, BUT IN THE LONG RUN, HUMANKIND WILL NOT BE THE BETTER FOR IT, WILL NOT SURVIVE.

>> CAN I JUST ASK YOU TWO QUICK QUESTIONS?

DO YOU THINK HE WILL PULL OUT OF CLIMATE DEAL?

DO YOU THINK HE WILL PULL OUT OF NATO?

DO YOU THINK HE WILL SAY MORE AND MORE OF THE DEFENSE SPENDING AND THAT WE WILL NOT OFFEND YOU UNLESS YOU PAY MORE?

>> I AM NOT THE ORACLE OF DELPHI, SO TO SPEAK, IN THIS INTERVIEW.

WHAT I WITNESSED WAS THAT THE RESULTS OF THE PARIS CLAIMANT CONFERENCE, THAT WAS SOMETHING HE WITHDREW FROM IN THE G 20 MEETING IN HAMBURG.

WE THEN HAD TO ADOPT A 19-1 STATEMENT DUE TO THIS, WHERE THE UNITED STATES STAYED OUT OF IT.

I HOPE AND TRUST, AT LEAST THIS WAS THE CASE LAST TIME, THAT NATO WILL PREVAIL, BUT THE REQUEST THAT THE EUROPEANS TOO, OR THE DEMAND THAT THE EUROPEANS PAY MORE WILL STILL BE OUT THERE.

GERMANY IS NOW PAYING THE 2% THAT WE AGREED ON IN WALES BUT THE AMERICAN DEFENSE BUDGET IS WAY HIGHER AND THE CHALLENGE FOR EUROPE ALSO WITH REGARD TO RUSSIA IN ORDER TO DEVELOP A CREDIBLE DETERRENT WILL BE TO ALSO INCREASE THE EXPENDITURE.

SO I ASSUME THAT, I SHOULD SAY, THAT 2% WILL PROBABLY NOT BE THE END OF IT.

AND THAT IS WHAT I WRITE IN MY BOOK TOO, THAT IS MY PREDICTION.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SECURITY OF EUROPE AND PUTIN AND UKRAINE.

THAT IS THE BIG ISSUE OUT THERE RIGHT NOW.

IN YOUR BOOK, YOU WRITE ABOUT TRUMP'S NEGOTIATION TO GET U.S.

TROOPS OUT OF AFGHANISTAN AND YOU ESSENTIALLY SAY THAT THE WAY IT WAS DONE WITH NOTIFICATION WITH THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT, ONLY WITH THE TALIBAN, THE FATE OF AFGHANISTAN WAS SEALED.

THAT ESSENTIALLY AFGHANISTAN WAS GIVEN BACK TO THE TELEPHONE.

SO EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, WHAT IS TRUMP GOING TO DO WHEN HE SAYS I CAN END THE WAR IN UKRAINE IN 24 HOURS OR WHATEVER.

WHAT DO YOU THINK, KNOWING WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL, AND KNOWING WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT PUTIN, HOW DO YOU THINK UNDER THESE TWO PRESIDENTS THAT WERE IS GOING TO BE ENDED?

>> THIS OR IS SUCH AN INCREDIBLE SUFFERING FOR THE UKRAINIAN POPULATION AND PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY PROVED TO BE SO COURAGEOUS WHEN ON THE DAY THE AGGRESSION HAPPENED, DIDN'T LEAVE THE COUNTRY, DIDN'T FLEE BUT STAYED IN THE COUNTRY AND IS FIGHTING EVER SINCE FOR A SOVEREIGN UKRAINE.

I DON'T WANT TO SPECULATE, I DON'T WANT TO SAY I CAN COMPARE THIS WITH AFGHANISTAN.

I CAN ONLY SAY THE RESULT OF AFGHANISTAN WAS A DISASTER, BECAUSE ONCE YOU HAVE AN ELECTED GOVERNMENT SUCH AS THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT AND NOT INCLUDE THEM INTO SUCH NEGOTIATIONS, SO BASICALLY GIVE TO THOSE WHO ACTUALLY VIOLATE HUMAN RIGHTS EVERY DAY AND GIVE THEM POWER OF ATTORNEY, SO TO SPEAK, THEN THEY WILL HAVE ALL THE POSSIBILITIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL TO SET THE CONDITIONS.

THERE WAS NO INTERNAL PEACE PROCESS IN AFGHANISTAN DUE TO THIS AND PRESIDENT BIDEN ACTUALLY ACCEPTED THAT AND THE RESULT OF THE NEGOTIATIONS AND WE SAW THAT THIS DIDN'T MEAN ANYTHING GOOD FOR THE AFGHAN PEOPLE.

EVEN UNTIL TODAY.

BUT IN UKRAINE, WELL, IT WILL DEPEND ON HOW EUROPE WILL -- SORT OF DUE TO MY SUCCESSOR, HOW EUROPE WILL POSSESS ITSELF.

I CAN SAY ANYTHING ON THIS.

>> TO THINK PEOPLE HAD SAID HAD YOU ACCEPTED IN 2007 OR SIX, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHEN, BUT THERE IS A SPECIFIC NATO SUMMIT IN UKRAINE AND GEORGIA ENTER NATO, THIS WAR WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED?

>> NO.

NO, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I DON'T THINK.

I ALSO DESCRIBED THIS, IT WAS 2008 IN BUCHAREST, ACTUALLY, THIS IS NOT ABOUT NATO MEMBERSHIP BUT IT WAS THE SORT OF PRECURSOR TO THAT, A MEMBERSHIP ACTION PLAN AND WE KNEW FROM SUCCESSION OF THE PUBLIC COUNTRIES AND OTHER COUNTRIES THIS USUALLY TAKES THREE TO FIVE YEARS AND DURING THOSE YEARS, THEY ARE NOT PROTECTED BY THE NATO UMBRELLA.

I WAS FIRMLY CONVINCED THAT PUTIN WOULD NOT SORT OF ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN WITHOUT TAKING ACTION.

SO I THOUGHT IT WAS WRONG TO ACTUALLY PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA AT THE TIME PARTICULARLY SINCE THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE WERE SPLIT RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE SINCE THE RUSSIAN FLEET WAS ACTUALLY LOCATED IN THE BLACK SEA AND THERE WAS A NEGOTIATION WE HAD AND A CONTRACT WE HAD FROM RUSSIA, SO IT IS NOT THE RIGHT POINT IN TIME.

I WAS ACTUALLY NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS WRONG, THAT THE POINT IN TIME WAS WRONG FOR CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPEANS WANTED TO BE PROTECTED AND THEREFORE SUPPORTED UKRAINE BUT WE AT THE TIME, THAT WOULD HAVE LED UKRAINE INTO A VULNERABLE EXPOSURE.

I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE A ROAD TAKEN BY THEM THAT NOW HAS BEEN TAKEN BY SWEDEN AND THAT THEY WOULD THEN SUCCEED TO NATO.

>> EVEN A NEGOTIATION, UKRAINIAN POLITICIAN, WHETHER PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY OR OTHERS, SAY HOW CAN WE NEGOTIATE WITH A LIAR?

HE SAYS ONE THING, IN YOUR BOOK YOU WRITE POINT BLANK THAT PUTIN TOLD YOU A REASON LIKE WHEN YOU CONFRONTED HIM ABOUT RUSSIAN TROOPS INSIDE CRIMEA AND EASTERN UKRAINE IN 2014.

AND HE ALSO AT ONE POINT TOLD YOU, LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN UKRAINE, THIS IS THE 2004 REVOLUTION PARK THE ORANGE REVOLUTION, I WILL NEVER ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN.

HOW CAN ANYBODY NEGOTIATE WITH SOMEBODY WHO YOU YOUR SELF, WHO KNEW PUTIN PRETTY WELL, CALLS A BRAZEN LIAR?

>> WELL, AT THE BEGINNING OF MY WORK AS FEDERAL CHANCELLOR, THAT WAS NOT WHAT HE DID.

HE DID NOT SAY THESE BRAZEN LIES.

BUT LATER ON ON CRIMEA, HE DID ADMIT THAT, THAT HE HAD LIED, AND THAT WAS A TURNING POINT IN OUR RELATIONSHIP, QUITE CLEARLY, THAT I HAD TO BE EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS IN MY APPROACH TOWARD HIM.

SO YOU CANNOT ONLY TRUST IN AN AGREEMENT WITH HIM, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, SO WE HAVE TO GIVE TO UKRAINE IN WHICH FORM WHATSOEVER, SECURITY GUARANTEES, VERY CLEAR AND ABSOLUTELY RELIABLE GUARANTEES AS WE GAVE THEM WHEN THEY SAID WE ARE GOING TO DISPENSE WITH OUR NUCLEAR POWER AT THE TIME BUT UKRAINE CANNOT BE LEFT WITHOUT EVERY SECURITY GUARANTEE AND WHAT WE MAYBE THINK IS A PIECE.

IN MY BOOK I READ QUITE CLEARLY THAT APART FROM THE MILITARY SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ALSO THINK NOW OF HOW A DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION CAN LOOK LIKE AFTER THE END OF THE WAR.

>> I AM STRUCK IN YOUR BOOK, YOU AS THE FIRST FEMALE CHANCELLOR OF GERMANY, YOU SEEM TO HAVE BEEN HEAVILY CHALLENGED BY TWO MACHO MEN.

DONALD TRUMP SPENT HIS FIRST CAMPAIGN, AS YOU WRITE, ATTACKING YOU.

AND YOU ARE SURPRISED, YOU SAY, THAT HE WOULD SPEND HIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN ATTACKING A GERMAN CHANCELLOR.

PUTIN KEPT TRYING TO TEST YOU AS WELL AND THERE IS A FAMOUS STORY ABOUT THE DOG, RIGHT?

NO HE IS SAYING THAT HE NEVER KNEW YOU WERE AFRAID OF THE DOG WHEN HE BROUGHT THE DOG INTO THE MEETING THE SECOND TIME THAT HE HAD THAT MEETING.

SO HE SAID PLEASE, ANGLER, PLEASE KNOW THAT I DID NOT DO THIS TO FRIGHTEN YOU.

I AM PARAPHRASING HERE.

BUT YOU THOUGHT HE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS DOING.

>> WELL, LOOK INTO THAT PARTICULAR CHAPTER IN MY BOOK.

WHEN I MADE MY FIRST VISIT, MY FORMER POLITICAL ADVISOR AT THE TIME SAID TO HIS, THAT I HAD BEEN BITTEN BY A DOG SO IT WOULD BE VERY KIND NOT TO HAVE A DOG PRESENT.

I DID NOT LIKE THEM ALL THAT MUCH, AND THEN HE GAVE TO ME A STUFFED ANIMAL, A DOG, AND SAID THIS ONE IS NOT GOING TO BITE YOU.

SO MAYBE HE HAD FORGOTTEN IT.

BUT IF YOU READ THIS WHOLE STORY THEN IT IS NOT VERY PROBABLE THAT HE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

I AM WRITING IN MY MEMOIR HOW THE SITUATION ACTUALLY WAS, I ADOPTED A BRAVE FACE AND SAID, WELL, AS A BRITISH -- MY FAMILY SAYS NEVER EXPLAIN, NEVER COMPLAIN.

THEY SURVIVED.

THE DOG DIDN'T BITE ME.

SO, LET'S LEAVE IT AT THAT.

BUT, I MEAN, THERE IS NO OTHER EXPLANATION FOR IT.

IT IS A SMALL ATTEMPT TO TEST THE WATERS.

HOW RESILIENT A PERSON IS, HOW STRONG.

IT IS POWER PLAY, BASICALLY.

>> AND IT APPEARS YOU MET THAT POWER AND MORE.

YOU WERE ASKED ONCE AT A G20 SUMMIT WHETHER YOU ARE A FEMINIST AND YOU HAVE JUST KIND OF FREAKED OUT.

YOU SAID, NO.

HE DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER IT.

WHY?

>> WELL, YOU SEE, THAT WAS A STRANGE SITUATION SOMEHOW BECAUSE IN PREPARING FOR G-20, THERE WAS A MEETING OF WOMEN AND THEY ALL SAID, SAY IT, SAY IT.

AND I JUST COULDN'T COME OUT WITH IT THAT WAY.

I THOUGHT ABOUT IT LATER ON AND I THINK I HAVE GROWN INTO A DIMINISHED, IF YOU LIKE, OVERTIME.

IN MY VERY OWN WAY.

BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENCES.

I THINK I WAS NEVER OUT THERE ON THE FRONT FIGHTING FOR FEMINIST ISSUES, OTHER WOMEN DID THAT AND I DIDN'T WANT TO, AS IT WERE, SORT OF SAY THAT I DID THAT.

AND IN THE WEST IT WAS ALWAYS SAID FOR EXAMPLE, THAT IN THE GDR WE HAD ACTUALLY PARTICIPATION, WOMEN, THERE WAS EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, BUT WE NEVER ACTUALLY HAD EQUAL PARTICIPATION AND POWER.

THERE HAVE NEVER BEEN A FEMALE MEMBER THERE, SO I MUST SAY THAT PROMOTING WOMEN'S ISSUE IS IMPORTANT AND IF WE WANT TO HAVE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR MEN AND WOMEN WE HAVE TO FIGHT FOR IT, AND THIS IS WHAT I DID OVERTIME.

I AM A FEMINIST IN MY VERY OWN WAY BUT I NEVER SAW IT IN A WAY THAT WE NEED TO PUSH MEN ASIDE.

MEN HAVE TO CHANGE, YES, OF COURSE, IF WE ACTUALLY WANT TO HAVE A TRULY, A WORLD WHERE THERE IS TRUE.

HE.

THEY WILL HAVE TO TAKE OVER JOBS WOMEN HAVE DONE SO FAR.

>> SOMETIMES I WONDER WHETHER BEING A WOMAN INFORMED YOUR DECISION, THE COMPASSION YOU SHOWED, TO SO MANY WOMEN REFUGEES AND CHILDREN AS WELL AS THE MEN WHO YOU ALLOWED IN IN 2015.

IN THE BOOK, AGAIN, YOU SAY THERE WAS MY CAREER BEFORE 2015 AND THE REFUGEES AND AFTER.

WHEN YOU SAID WE CAN DO THIS.

IS THAT I NEVER KNEW THAT I WOULD BE BLUDGEONED OVER THE HEAD OR SUCH FOR SIMPLE WORDS WOULD BE SO CONTROVERSIAL.

TALK TO ME ABOUT THAT.

REFLECT ON THAT.

>> WELL, IF I GO THROUGH MY SPEECHES, THROUGH EVERYTHING I SAID DURING MY POLITICAL LIFE, I VERY, VERY OFTEN, 100 TIMES, I SAID WE'LL MANAGE, WE CAN DO THIS.

SO I THOUGHT THIS WAS SOMETHING QUITE ORDINARY BUT IT DOES DENOTE THAT I DO SEE THIS AS A VERY DIFFICULT TASK.

YOU DON'T USUALLY SAY, I GET OUT OF BED TODAY AND THAT IS A BIG TASK SO I WILL BE ABLE TO MANAGE, BUT I THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS INDEED A HUGE TASK FOR US BUT I WAS CONVINCED THAT WE CAN DO THIS.

AND I WAS, AS YOU SAY, BLUDGEONED OVER THE HEAD BECAUSE OF THAT AND I DON'T THINK RIGHTFULLY SO BECAUSE THERE WAS, IN A WAY, IT CREATED THIS IMPRESSION AS IF I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING IN ORDER TO REDUCE ILLEGAL MIGRATION BUT ENTERED INTO NEGOTIATIONS WITH TURKEY, FOR EXAMPLE.

IT WAS SIMPLY UNIMAGINABLE TO ME THAT PEOPLE THAT ARE IN NEED, AND DISTRESS, INDIVIDUALS , STAND AT THE VERY SORT OF BORDER OF OUR COUNTRY AND WE SEND WATER CANNONS TO GET RID OF THEM, TO KEEP THEM AWAY FROM THE GERMAN BORDER.

AND NEXT SUNDAY I GIVE A SUNDAY SPEECH SAYING WE HOLD THESE VALUES OF HUMAN DIGNITY AND SO ON, AND THESE PEOPLE HAVE AFTER ALL BEEN BY HUMAN TRAFFICKERS, UNDER THREAT OF THEIR LIFE, BEING STRUGGLED -- SMUGGLED TO GERMANY.

WHEN WE NEGOTIATED, THE EU ASYLUM SYSTEM AND ALSO NEGOTIATED THIS AGREEMENT WITH TURKEY, PEOPLE CRITICIZED ME.

THEY SAID, HOW CAN YOU NEGOTIATE SOMETHING THAT IS LIKE THIS WITH THE PRESIDENT?

BUT WE WILL HAVE TO ALSO, IN TRYING TO COMBAT THIS INFLUX OF REFUGEES AND DEAL WITH IT POLITICALLY, BY NEGOTIATING WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT DEMOCRATS AS WE SEE THEM, IT IS IN THE INTEREST OF THE PEOPLE BECAUSE THESE DAYS IS PARTICULAR REFUGEES ARE CLOSER TO THEIR HOME COUNTRY.

WE SUPPORTED THEM BY MONEY IN ORDER TO GET TRAINING, IN ORDER TO GET SCHOOLING FOR THEIR CHILDREN AND MANY OTHER THINGS.

>> YOU DO SEE THE SITUATION EVERYWHERE NOW, WHICH IS VERY ANTI-IMMIGRANT, IT JUST IS.

IT IS VERY ANTI-IMMIGRANT.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS A PHASE OR IS THIS HERE TO STAY?

THIS VERY RIGHT WING HARDNESS AGAINST IMMIGRANTS, IT AFFECTED THE U.S. ELECTION, IT AFFECTS ELECTIONS IN EUROPE.

>> WELL, THAT IS A PHENOMENON OF GLOBALIZATION, IN A WAY.

WE HAVE CLIMATE CHANGE.

PEOPLE FROM AFRICA, PARTICULARLY AFFECT EUROPE, WILL MIGRATE.

THERE WILL BE A FLOW OF MIGRANTS BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE NO LONGER HAVE ANY KIND OF LIFE, ANY KIND OF BASIS FOR EXISTENCE IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.

HERE YOU HAVE MIGRANTS NOT ONLY FROM VENEZUELA, FROM LATIN AMERICA, FROM MEXICO, BUT THROUGH VERY DIFFERENT RATES FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

AND IF WE ARE NOT TRYING TO HELP THESE COUNTRIES OF ORIGIN THROUGH GRANTING THEM AID, TO GIVE THESE PEOPLE A CHANCE, THEN WE WILL SUFFER TOO.

WE WILL HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO CLOSE OURSELVES OFF AGAINST US SO WE NEED TO SOLVE THIS ISSUE WITH THE COUNTRIES OF ORIGIN AND OF COURSE ILLEGAL MIGRATION NEEDS TO BE FOUGHT AGAINST.

THESE HUMAN TRAFFICKERS NEED TO BE FOUGHT AGAINST BUT THE HARSHER WE ARE IN TRYING TO SHUT OURSELVES OFF AGAINST THE REST OF THE WORLD, THE BIGGER THIS ISSUE WILL BECOME.

I AM FIRMLY CONVINCED OF THIS.

>> I WAS ALSO STRUCK BY SOMETHING POTENTIAL YET ONE OF HIS MEETINGS WHERE HE SAID, I'M GOING TO PARAPHRASE, THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET UNION WITH THE GREATEST POLITICAL -- GEOPOLITICAL DISASTER OF THE 20th CENTURY.

AND IT CLEARLY SEEMS LIKE HE MEANS IT.

AND I WONDER, BECAUSE YOU SAID WANTED ONE OF YOUR SPEECHES THAT YOU DID SORT OF A COMPROMISE.

ONE DAY THESE TWO COUNTRIES WILL JOIN NATO, AND HE BASICALLY TOLD ME ABOUT UKRAINE AND GEORGIA.

AND YOU SAID THAT HE SAID I WILL NEVER LET THAT HAPPEN.

YOU MAY LEAVE BUT I WILL STILL BE COMING BACK.

I WILL STILL STAY AS PRESIDENT AND I WON'T LET IT HAPPEN.

DO YOU THINK THAT HE WILL NEVER LET THAT HAPPEN?

>> AT THE TIME, WHAT HE SAID, HE DID NOT SAY I WILL STILL BE THERE BUT HE SAID SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT.

HE SAID WE WILL NOT ALWAYS BE PRESIDENT EITHER WHICH IS TOTALLY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT IS TRUE IS THAT THIS WAS ACTUALLY -- HE HAD A POINT THERE.

FOR ME THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET UNION MEANT THAT I WAS FINALLY ABLE TO HAVE FREEDOM BUT I THINK HE DID WRITE A BOOK ABOUT THE GRAND CHESSBOARD AND HE WROTE THAT IT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHETHER ONE DAY UKRAINE BECOMES A MEMBER OF NATO AND HE SAID THAT IT WAS ACTUALLY IN AMERICA'S VESTED INTEREST AND ONCE UKRAINE IS IN NATO, RUSSIA IS NO LONGER A GREAT GLOBAL POWER.

AND I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT PUTIN WOULD SIGN OFF TO AND THAT THEN RUSSIA WILL NO LONGER BE A GREAT GLOBAL POWER.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE IS AIMING AT.

AND THAT IS A VIEW OF THE WORLD WHICH DOESN'T ASK THE UKRAINIANS WHAT THEY WANT.

I WANT UKRAINIANS AT SOME POINT IN TIME TO DETERMINE THEIR OWN FATE.

THAT MUST BE OUR GOAL.

AND WE ALREADY PAID A VERY HEAVY PRICE, AND THEY PAID A VERY HEAVY PRICE IN PARTICULAR.

SO, THAT IS A HUGE AMOUNT OF WORK FOR THOSE WHO WILL THEN HAVE POLITICAL RESPONSIBILITY.

ON THE ONE HAND, DETERRENCE, HE WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO ATTACK US, AND AT THE SAME TIME, UPHOLD SOVEREIGNTY FOR UKRAINE AND UKRAINE GETS A SECURITY GUARANTEES, HOW THEY WILL THEN, WHAT SHAPE AND FORM HE WILL TAKE IS SOMETHING AT THIS POINT IN TIME I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SAY.

>> FINALLY BACK TO YOUR LIFE BEHIND THE CURTAIN IN THE GDR.

YOU SAID THAT YOUR MOTHER AND YOUR FAMILY ALLOWED YOU SOME SAFE SPACE TO LET OFF STEAM.

WHAT WERE THE KIND OF THINGS YOU DID THAT GOT YOU INTO TROUBLE?

OR HOW DID SHE KNOW THAT YOU NEEDED A PLACE TO BE ABLE TO COME AND TALK FREELY BECAUSE YOU ARE SO CONTROLLED THROUGHOUT YOUR LIFE?

>> WELL, THIS WENT VERY QUICKLY.

MY PARENTS, FOR EXAMPLE, DIDN'T ALLOW ME WHEN I WAS IN SCHOOL TO BECOME A MEMBER OF THE YOUTH ORGANIZATION OF THE PARTY TO BECOME A PIONEER.

I WAS THEN ABLE TO CHOOSE TO FIRST GRADE.

IF I DIDN'T IT WOULD HAVE MEANT YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED IF YOU ARE NOT A PIONEER, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO ORGANIZE A CHRISTMAS PARTY, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO BE WITH THE OTHERS, AND I SAID I WANT TO BE A PIONEER TO MY PARENTS, THEY ALLOWED ME THIS.

BUT THEN IT WAS VERY CLEAR THAT I WOULD NEVER BECOME A CHAIRPERSON, LET'S SAY, MY PAIN OR GROUP.

BECAUSE MY FATHER WAS A PARSON AND I WAS ABLE TO DISCUSS THIS WITH MY PARENTS.

SO I ALWAYS HAD THE SAFE HAVEN, IF YOU LIKE, WHERE WE COULD DISCUSS ALL OF THESE THINGS AND ACTUALLY WE ARE A DRAG -- COMMON SENSE.

YOU ARE ABLE TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES AND FEEL FREE, IN SCHOOL YOU COULD NOT DO THIS.

EVEN IF YOU HAD SORT OF, LET'S SAY, A BALLPOINT PEN FROM THE WEST BECAUSE MY GRANDMOTHER FROM HAMBURG HAD SENT ME ONE, PEOPLE WERE LOOKING AT THAT AND WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS.

YOU COULDN'T TALK FREELY ABOUT LOOKING ON WEST GERMAN TELEVISION, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT KIND OF BOOK YOU WERE READING.

I LEARNED THIS STEP-BY-STEP AND AT HOME I COULD ADDRESS ALL THESE ISSUES FREELY.

>> WHAT ARE YOU PROUDEST OF AND WHAT IS YOUR BIGGEST REGRET?

>> PROUD.

THAT IS DIFFICULT TO SAY, BUT I AM SATISFIED THAT I WAS ABLE TO STEER GERMANY THROUGH A NUMBER OF STORMS DURING FOUR TERMS.

WE HAD THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRISIS THAT HAD DRAMATIC CONSEQUENCES FOR THE WORLD, JUST THINK OF THE BRICKS COUNTRIES FOR EXAMPLE, AND THAT I WAS ABLE TO NAVIGATE THE DIFFICULT EURO CRISIS, WATERS, ACTUALLY I WOULD SAY ALSO THE MIGRATION CRISIS.

WE DID MANAGE, ALTHOUGH A LOT REMAINS STILL TO BE DONE.

AND THE COVID PANDEMIC, LESS PEOPLE DIED IN GERMANY THEY ARE IN OTHER COUNTRIES, THAT TOO I THINK WAS GOOD.

I AM NOT SATISFIED WITH CLAIMANT, WITH OUR ACHIEVEMENTS THERE.

YOU KNOW, WE DID NOT REALLY TAKE THE NECESSARY PROVISIONS FOR THE FUTURE.

SOMETIMES WE DID MAYBE MORE THAN OTHER COUNTRIES BUT IT WAS NOT SUFFICIENT.

I MUST ADMIT THAT.

>> CHANCELLOR MERKEL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> REALLY IMPORTANT REFLECTIONS FROM A LEADER WHO INTERFACED WITH ALL THE REST OF THE IMPORTANT LEADERS AND THE STORMS, AS SHE SAID, THROUGHOUT THIS CENTURY.

THE 21st CENTURY.

>>> NOW BACK TO A STORM, THE SOUTH KOREAN ONE, WHERE EARLIER THE PRESIDENT MADE A SHOCK DECISION TO DECLARE MARTIAL LAW.

PROTEST ERUPTED THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY AND WITHIN HOURS, LAWMAKERS UNANIMOUSLY REJECTED THE DECLARATION.

SOUTH KOREANS FOREIGN MINISTER IS WITH ME NOW IN NEW YORK.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, FOREIGN MINISTER.

I WANT TO GET YOUR IMMEDIATE REACTION BOTH POLITICALLY AND PERHAPS EVEN EMOTIONALLY SENSE YOU ARE FAR AWAY FROM YOUR COUNTRY.

>> IS, I WAS WATCHING THIS ON TV THIS MORNING AS I USUALLY DO EVERY MORNING WATCHING WHAT IS HAPPENING IN MY COUNTRY AND SAW THE PRESIDENT MAKING THIS ANNOUNCEMENT WHICH WAS JUST COMPLETELY OUT OF THE BLUE.

NOTHING ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES AROUND THE COUNTRY WARRANTED THIS, SO IT WAS SHOCKING, TO PUT IT MILDLY, BUT WAS RELIEVED TO SEE THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY ACTING VERY QUICKLY TO PASS A RESOLUTION OVERTURNING THIS.

SO THE ONLY STEP REMAINING IN THIS PROCESS IS FOR THE PRESIDENT TO ACCEPT AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE DECLARATION HE MADE ON MARTIAL LAW IS NOW NULL AND VOID.

PRESIDENTIAL OFFICE I UNDERSTAND IS CURRENTLY VERY QUIET, CITIZENS HAVE GATHERED AROUND THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TO PROTEST AND TO MAKE THEIR POINT THAT THIS IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE, THE WAY IT HAS BEEN HANDLED, THOUGH IT HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED.

SO WE WILL GET A BETTER SENSE IN THE MORNING HOURS BUT CURRENTLY I THINK ALL SIDES, INCLUDING KEY FIGURES IN THE RULING PARTY, CLEARLY PRESSING THE POINT THAT THIS IS COMPLETELY UN-EXCITABLE.

>> THIS IS AN ABERRATION.

>> YOU COME ACROSS SO MANY ISSUES OF BILATERAL IMPORTANCE WITH ASIA AND THE UNITED STATES AND SO MANY OTHER ISSUES.

IN YOUR EARLY-MORNING TWEET, YOU SAID THE PRESIDENTIAL DECISION, HE MUST ACCEPT THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY VOTE OVERTURNING IT.

WHAT IF HE DOESN'T?

WHAT POWER DOES HE HAVE?

IT LOOKS LIKE ACCORDING TO THE INFORMATION WE HAVE NOW THAT THE MILITARY IS FOLLOWING THE PARLIAMENTARY THICKLY ANNULLING THIS LAW AND DECLARING IT VOID.

DO YOU EXPECT THAT TO HOLD?

DO YOU EXPECT THE MILITARY TO OBEY THE PARLIAMENT OR TO OPEN THE PERSON OF THE PRESIDENT?

>> WELL, I THINK THE RULE OF LAW REQUIRES IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RULE.

AND THE WAY THE MARTIAL LAW ITSELF WAS DECLARED WAS NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE REQUIREMENTS AS FAR AS THE CONSTITUTION IS CONCERNED BECAUSE IT WAS DONE OUT OF THE BLUE WITHOUT GOING THROUGH THE NECESSARY REQUIREMENT OF GOING THROUGH A CABINET DECISION.

SO IT DOESN'T SEEM ANY OF THE MINISTERS WERE AWARE THAT THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN ASIDE FROM THE DEFENSE MINISTER, OBVIOUSLY.

IT SEEMS THAT THERE WAS PREPARATION ON THAT SIDE BECAUSE THE TANKS WERE ROLLING IN, THE HELICOPTERS WERE IN THE AIR, MINUTES AFTER THE DECREE WAS ANNOUNCED, SO CLEARLY THE MINISTER OF DEFENSE AND HIS CLOSE ADVISORS WERE PREPARED.

BUT ON THE POLITICAL SIDE, NONE OF THE KEY POLITICAL ACTORS EVEN WITHIN THE RULING PARTY SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN AWARE OF WHAT WAS COMING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT FROM THE PRESIDENT'S OFFICE.

THE TWO KEY POLITICAL LEADERS FROM THE RULING PARTY AND THE OPPOSITION PARTY HAVE, AFTER THE NATIONALISM LABELED, HAS COME UP WITH A STATEMENT THAT I THINK IS VERY STABILIZING.

POINTING THIS OUT THAT THE WAY THE MARTIAL LAW WAS DECREED WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, IT DID NOT FOLLOW PROCESS SO IT IS ILLEGAL, AND THEREFORE ANY ORDER GIVEN UNDER THE SO-CALLED DECLARED MARTIAL LAW IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, UNLAWFUL, AND THEREFORE ANY PUBLIC SERVANT INCLUDING THE MILITARY AND POLICE SHOULD NOT BE FOLLOWING ANY ORDERS COMING FROM THAT AUTHORITY WHICH IN ITSELF IS UNLAWFUL.

>> FOREIGN MINISTER, THE PRESIDENT IS FROM THE RIGHT- WING PEOPLE POWER PARTY, AND SO THE QUESTION IS, WHO IS HE AND WHY DID HE DO THIS?

THE REASONS HE GAVE WAS THAT HE COULDN'T DO THE BUSINESS OF GOVERNMENT BECAUSE OF THE TREACHERY OF NORTH KOREAN SPIES AND COMMUNIST HOLDOUTS INSIDE THE BODY POLITIC.

WHO IS THIS PERSON?

>> WELL, THERE ARE KEY ADVISORS, KEY MINISTERS WHO ARE STAUNCH ANTI-COMMUNIST.

THE WAY HIS VIEW HAS BEEN SHAPED HAS BEEN VERY MUCH INFLUENCED BY THESE HARD-LINE CONSERVATIVES, BUT FROM NOT TO JUMP TO THIS IDEA THAT THERE ARE COMMUNIST SYMPATHIZERS, EMPIRE STATE AGENTS SCHEMING TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT, IS COMPLETELY OUT OF THE BLUE.

COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO ANYTHING I CAN SEE HAPPENING IN THE COUNTRY.

IS, THE POLITICS IS VERY FRAGMENTED, VERY DIVISIVE, VERY POLARIZED.

BUT THEN IT IS THE ROLE OF THE PRESIDENT, THE DUTY OF THE PRESIDENT TO BE TRYING TO BRING THE COUNTRY BACK TOGETHER, AND HE HAS GONE EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

MORE POLARIZED, MORE EXTREMIST IN THE MESSAGES THAT HE HAS BEEN DELIVERING TO THE COUNTRY.

AND THIS IS ASIDE FROM ALL THE WRONGDOINGS THAT ARE BEING PUT TO -- BEFORE HIM AND THE FIRST LADY.

AND I THINK THAT PROBABLY WAS ALSO A BIG PART OF THE POLITICAL PRESSURE THAT HE WAS FEELING, THAT THEN LED TO HIM DECIDING TO GO THIS WAY.

>> TO YOU, AS I SAID -- SOUTH KOREA IS A VERY, VERY, VERY IMPORTANT ALLY OF THE UNITED STATES AND CLEARLY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS, AS THEY SAY, WATCHING ALL OF THIS UNFOLD VERY, VERY CLOSELY.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IMMEDIATELY ABOUT WHETHER THERE IS ANY THREAT TO BE ALLIANCE STRUCTURE OR ANY OF THE ISSUES THAT THE U.S. AND SOUTH KOREA AND ALLIES IN THE REGION ARE HAVING TO DEAL WITH ON A DAILY BASIS?

>> I WOULD CERTAINLY HOPE NOT AND I THINK GIVEN THAT THE VOICES AGAINST THIS OUT OF THE BLUE DECISION FROM THE PRESIDENT , BOTH FROM THE RULING SIDE, THE OPPOSITION CAMP, AND A SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE RULING PARTY, THE PARTY OF THE PRESIDENT, CLEARLY IN AGAINST THIS DECISION BY THE PRESIDENT, I THINK IS SOMETHING THAT WILL ADD TO BRINGING THIS BACK TO STABILITY.

I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT THIS WILL END UP AS BEING AN OVERNIGHT HAPPENING.

BUT THERE ARE SIGNS THAT THIS COULD GO -- THE CHAOTIC DEVELOPMENTS COULD CONTINUE FOR A WHILE.

BUT I CERTAINLY DON'T THINK THAT THIS WILL HAVE ANY EFFECT ON THE ALLIANCE.

I THINK THE SUPPORT FOR THE ALLIANCE IS SOLID ON THE PART OF THE UNITED STATES.

I THINK ON THE KOREAN SIDE ALSO , BOTH THE RULING AND OPPOSITION, THE CENTRAL IMPORTANCE OF THE ALLIANCE TO THE SECURITY AND THE WELL-BEING OF THE COUNTRY IS BIPARTISAN, SO I AM NOT WORRIED ABOUT THE EFFECT OF THIS ON THE ALLIANCE.

AND, THE DETERRENCE THAT THE COMBINED FORCES HAVE.

>> YEAH, AND OF COURSE YOU DO HAVE NORTH KOREA, QUITE AN EMBOLDENED NORTH KOREA PARTNERING WITH RUSSIAN NOW JUST ACROSS THAT EMD.

QUICKLY AND FINALLY, WE HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS, YOU SAID IT WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

IS THERE ANY WAY THE PRESIDENT CAN COME BACK AND DO IT IN A CONSTITUTIONAL MANNER?

OR IS THIS PRESIDENT POTENTIALLY FINISHED?

>> I THINK THIS MOVE HAS ONLY FURTHER UNDERMINED HIS AUTHORITY.

I DON'T SEE HOW HE CAN FIND HIS WAY OUT OF IT.

AND I THINK THE ONLY THING THAT REMAINS FOR HIM TO DO, THE MINIMUM THING AND THE FINAL THING HE MUST DO IS TO ACCEPT THE DECISION OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY AND CALL THE SOUTH.

THAT WOULD ALSO REQUIRE THE PROCEDURES OF GOING THROUGH THE CABINET MEETING AND THEN POSTING THIS PUBLICLY.

>> WITH INCREDIBLE CHAOS.

AS YOU SAID, THE FIRST TIME SINCE 1980 THAT MARTIAL LAW WAS DECLARED IN YOUR COUNTRY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US, REALLY IMPORTANT INSIGHTS.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

THANK YOU.

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, WITH THE HOLIDAY SEASON JUST AROUND THE CORNER, THE WORLD IS GETTING INTO THE FESTIVE SPIRIT.

ACROSS EUROPE, IN MINISTRIES AND TWINKLING LIGHTS ARE DAZZLING CITIES LIKE BRUSSELS, AND IN THE UK, LIGHTS THE TREE OUTSIDE DOWNING STREET FOR THE FIRST TIME AS PRIME MINISTER WELL HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, THE BIDENS HAVE BEEN PREPARING FOR THEIR LAST CHRISTMAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

ORGANIZERS HAVE GONE ALL OUT, TAKING 300 VOLUNTEERS A FULL WEEK TO DECK THE HALLS WITH 83 CHRISTMAS TREES OVER 28,000 ORNAMENTS AND ALMOST 10,000 FEET OF RIBBON.

MAKING IT A CHRISTMAS TO REMEMBER.

FIRST LADY JOE BIDEN HAS THIS TO SAY AS SHE KICKED OFF THE HOLIDAY SEASON.

>> SO AS WE CELEBRATE OUR FINAL HOLIDAY SEASON HERE IN THE WHITE HOUSE, WE ARE GUIDED BY THE VALUES THAT WE HOLD SACRED.

FAITH, FAMILY, AND SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY.

KINDNESS TO WARD ALL OF OUR NEIGHBORS, AND THE POWER OF COMMUNITY.

>> KINDNESS AND COMMUNITY, HOLIDAY SPIRITS INDEED.

>>> THAT IS IT FOR NOW, TUNE IN LATER THIS WEEK FOR MY INTERVIEW WITH THE ACTRESS DEMI MOORE.

SHE REFLECT ON HER 40 YEAR CAREER, FROM HER DAYS AS A MEMBER OF THE LEAWOOD RAT PACK TO HER FAMED ROLE IN GHOST AND NOW TO A MOST RECENT PERFORMANCE IN THE NEW VERTICALLY ACCLAIMED BODY HORROR FILM, THE SUBSTANCE.

WE TALK ABOUT HER LEGACY AND THE PAINFUL PROCESS OF AGING IN HOLLYWOOD.

WHILE FEMALE, OF COURSE.

HERE IS A SNIPPET FROM OUR CONVERSATION.

>> FIRST I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE SUBSTANCE.

IT HAS BEEN OUT FOR SEVERAL MONTHS AND HAS HAD A RANGE OF CRITIQUES.

SOME HAVE SAID IT IS REALLY DEEP, OTHERS HAVE SAID IT IS REALLY SHALLOW.

YOU YOURSELF SAID THIS COULD BE AN ABSOLUTELY AMAZING THING OR IT COULD BE A DISASTER.

NOW THAT IT HAS BEEN OUT FOR A FEW MONTHS, IS IT AMUSING OR A DISASTER?

>> I THINK IT IS AMAZING.

IT, IN TRUTH, HAS HIT A CERTAIN KIND OF ZEITGEIST IN POPULAR CULTURE THAT IS EVEN BEYOND WHAT I COULD HAVE EXPECTED.

BUT ALL THAT I HAD HOPED FOR.

AND I THINK FOR THOSE LOOKING JUST FOR SOMETHING THAT IS A VISCERAL ENTERTAINING EXPERIENCE, IT IS ALL THERE.

AND I THINK FOR THOSE AND MORE SO I FIND PEOPLE WHO, WHERE IT HAS DEEPLY RESONATED, IT HAS TOUCHED THEM IN A PLACE OF KIND OF THEIR OWN TRUTH AND THAT IS REALLY THE GREATEST HOPE.

>> YOU HAVE OBVIOUS THE GOT THIS PHENOMENAL BUZZ OUT OF CAN WHEN IT PREMIERED AND GOT A 13 MINUTE STANDING OVATION, HE WON THE BIGGEST PRIZE.

I THINK EVERYBODY WAS SURPRISED .

WERE YOU SURPRISED?

HE SAID IT HAS GOT A BUZZ BEYOND WHAT YOU -- WERE YOU SURPRISED BY INITIAL REACTION?

>> I AM SHOCKED BECAUSE I TRULY DID GO IN WITH NO EXPECTATIONS AND BECAUSE IT HAS SUCH A MIX.

THERE IS REALLY NOTHING LIKE THIS FILM, AND SO I DIDN'T KNOW IF THE EXTREME NATURE OF WHERE IT GOES WOULD EITHER KIND OF WORK, CONNECT, WHAT IT WOULD DO.

I REALLY HAD NO IDEA.

I KEPT LOOKING OVER AT MARGARET , MY COSTAR, GOING, IT IS WORKING AND PEOPLE -- AND IN FACT THE CRAZIEST PARTS OF IT I THINK ALLOWED FOR ENOUGH OF A REPRIEVE, THE LAUGHTER, TO KIND OF STEP BACK AND ACTUALLY TAKE IN THE PART THAT IS SO INTENSE.

>> IT REALLY IS INTENSE, YOU MENTIONED MARGARET, SHE PLAYS SUE WHO IS YOUR YOUNGER ALTER EGO.

YOU ARE ELIZABETH SPARKLE AND AT A FAMOUS SCENE OF A LUNCH OR A DINNER WITH I THINK THE BOSS OF YOUR SHOW, HARVEY, BY THE WAY, CALLED HARVEY, HE ESSENTIALLY TOLD YOU YOU HAVE JUST HIT 50 AND YOU HAVE AGED OUT AND MAXED OUT OF HOLLYWOOD.

SO THAT IS A PARADIGM.

JUST GIVE US THE STORY.

I MEAN, IT IS A VERY VISCERAL STORY ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS A BIG DEAL FOR WOMEN IN HOLLYWOOD AND ELSEWHERE.

>> AND I THINK, AGAIN FOR ME, THE SETTING IS HEIGHTENED BY THE MERE FACT THAT ELIZABETH IS SOMEBODY IN THE PUBLIC EYE, SHE IS AN ACTRESS, BUT, SO THERE ARE GREATER EXPECTATIONS AND CHALLENGES THAT COME WHEN YOU ARE OUT FRONT FACING AND WITH JUDGMENTS AND CRITICISMS THAT COME FROM THE OUTSIDE.

THE FASCINATING PART FOR ME WITH THIS WAS NOT THE CIRCUMSTANCES BUT THE ASPECT OF WHAT SHE WAS DOING TO HERSELF.

THE VALUE SHE WAS PLACING ON WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THOUGHT AND CARED ABOUT.

HER VALUE ON WHETHER SHE WAS SUCCESSFUL BEING THE VERY CRUX OF WHETHER SHE WAS WORTHY OR NOT .

AND I THINK THAT IS THE PIECE THAT REALLY MOVED ME, BECAUSE IT EXPLORED THAT VIOLENCE WE CAN HAVE AGAINST OURSELVES.

THAT HARSH CRITICISM, THAT COMPARE AND DESPAIR.

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