>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," WITH COVID CASES FAST RISING AND THE NEW VARIANT CONFIRMED IN THE STATE, ARE LEADERS DOING ENOUGH TO STOP THE SPREAD?

COULD A PRIVATE EMPLOYER VACCINE MANDATE, LIKE THE ONE NEW YORK CITY JUST IMPOSED, BE ON THE HORIZON HERE?

SHOULD IT BE?

THE CHAIR OF BOSTON'S MAYOR MICHELLE WU'S NEW COVID-19 ADVISOR COMMITTEE, DR. BISOLA OJIKUTU, AND ANOTHER MEMBER, DR. CASSANDRA PIERRE, JOIN ME ON THAT.

AND LATER, THE MISSION SCHOOL SHOOTING IS RAISING THE ISSUE OF GUN REFORM IN AMERICA AGAIN, BUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SUCH SHOOTINGS, ARE WE MISSING THE BIGGER STORIES?

ONE GROUP SAYS YES AND IS LOOKING TO ADDRESS IT.

I'LL BE JOINED BY THE PEOPLE BEHIND THE EFFORT, LOCAL ACTIVIST TINY CHERY, WHOSE SON WAS SHOT AND KILLED NEARLY 30 YEARS AGO, AND DR. PETER MASIAKOS.

>> Braude: AVERAGE TEMPERATURES ARE FALLING, AVERAGE COVID CASE NUMBERS ARE RISING, AND THE OMICRON VARIANT HAS ARRIVED IN MASSACHUSETTS, JUST AS WE KNEW IT WOULD.

AS I'M SURE YOU'VE HEARD, A FULLY VACCINATED WOMAN IN HER 20s, FROM MIDDLESEX COUNTY, WAS DECLARED THE FIRST KNOWN CITY AND STATE LEADERS AGREE ON ONE THING, FOR SURE.

>> MY FIRST MESSAGE TO PEOPLE WOULD BE TO GET VACCINATED.

>> I URGE BOSTONIANS TO GET TESTED, TO GET VACCINATED, TO GET BOOSTED.

>> Braude: TO THAT END, GORNGOVERNOR BAKER AND MAYOR WU WERE WORKING TO EXTEND VACCINES.

AND THE COVID-19 ADVISORY COMMITTEE AND DR. BISOLA OJIKUTU SAID THEY WOULD BE OFFERING HOME TESTS AND FREE MASKS.

DR. OJIKUTU JOINS ME NOW, ALONG WITH DR. CASSANDRA PIERRE, MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC HEALTH PROGRAMS AT BOSTON MEDICAL CENTERS.

DOCTORS, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Braude: DR. OJIKUTU, ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT WAS ANNOUNCED BY YOU AND THE MAYOR IS ENOUGH TO STAY AHEAD OF OF THE OMICRON VARIANT AND TO KEEP PACE WITH RISING CASE NUMBERS HERE?

>> Doctor: I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF UNKNOWNS AS FAR AS OMICRON IS CONCERNED, AND I THINK THERE ARE ALSO SOME UNKNOWNS IN REGARDS TO THIS ANTICIPATED WINTER SURGE.

SO ALL WE CAN DO IS REALLY UTILIZE THE TOOLS WE KNOW WE HAVE AT OUR DOO DISPOSAL, AND DECREASE BARRIERS TO THEM.

ONE OF THE STRATEGIES, OBVIOUSLY, IS TO INCREASE TESTING.

THIS IS THE HOME TESTING TEST THAT WE HAVE PURCHASED AND WILL BE DISTRIBUTING IN PARTICULARLY VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES.

>> Braude: STAYING ON THAT FOR A SECOND, DR. OJIKUTU, YOU KNOW THAT NEW HAMPSHIRE OFFERED FREE TESTS TO EVERYBODY IN STATE, EVEN THOUGH THEY RAN OUT, AND U.K. IS OFFERING FREE TESTS TO EVERYONE.

20,000 IS A GOOD START, BUT SHOULDN'T EVERYBODY IN BOSTON HAVE ACCESS TO A FREE RAPID TEST?

>> Doctor: ABSOLUTELY.

AND I HAVE, YOU KNOW -- I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD ARGUE WITH THAT POINT.

I THINK EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO COVID-19 TESTING.

THE ISSUE IS WE WANTED TO START WITH THIS 20,000, AND WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO SCALE UP FROM THERE, AND WE PLAN TO.

IN SOME COMMUNITIES, FOLKS ARE NOT USING THESE HOME RAPID TESTS, AND I THINK THAT THEY ARE A REASONABLE MITIGATION STRATEGY THAT CAN BE VERY USEFUL, PARTICULARLY IN THE HOLIDAY SEASON, WHERE PEOPLE ARE GATHERING, AND PEOPLE CAN TEST THEMSELVES IN ADVANCE, AND IT GIVES YOU KNOWLEDGE, AND YOU CAN USE THAT KNOWLEDGE TO UNDERSTAND YOUR RISK AND, YOU KNOW, NOT ENGAGE IN ACTIVITIES THAT WOULD PUT OTHERS AT RISK.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT.

>> Braude: DR. PIERCE, STAYING ON THESE TESTS, IT SEEMS WHILE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS WELL-INTENTIONED, HIS PROPOSAL IS COMPLETELY UNWORKABLE.

THE NOTION THAT PEOPLE WITH PRIVATE INSURANCE WILL MAYWILL PAY UP FRONT, THE $25 OR WHATEVER IT IS AND THEN SUBMIT IT WITH ALL OF THE FORMS TO THEIR INSURANCE COMPANY.

UNINSURED PEOPLE, AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT MANY IN MASSACHUSETTS, EVEN THOUGH MICHAEL CURRY SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW IT WAS GOING TO WORK -- SHOULDN'T THE UNITED STATES BE DOING THE EXACT SAME THING DR. OJIKUTU AND I DISCUSSED, PROVIDING FREE TESTS FOR EVERYBODY?

>> Doctor: I THINK WHAT BIDEN HAS PROPOSED, AGAIN, IS A START.

BUT I AGREE IT IS GOING TO BE CUMBERSOME, ESPECIALLY FOR COMMUNITIES WHO HAVE ALREADY EXPERIENCED GAPS IN ACCESS TO TESTS AND TESTING SITES.

I THINK HAVING THESE READILY AVAILABLE AND IN HAND, WITHOUT A COST THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT HAVE BEEN PROHIBITED IN MANY COMMUNITIES, WOULD GO A LONG WAY INTO MAKING THE STRATEGY OF EXPANDING TESTING ACTIONABLE.

I THINK IT IS A START.

AND I'M HOPING THAT THE AMOUNT OF TESTS WOULD BE SCALED UP, AND THAT IN MANY COMMUNITIES, AS ALREADY HAS BEEN DEPOSITED, THESE TESTS WILL BE DISTRIBUTED FOR FREE.

THAT IS THE POINT OF THE NATIONAL STRATEGY, IS THAT THOSE TESTS WILL BE DISTRIBUTED AT CERTAIN COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS AND OTHER MOBILE SITES.

BUT WE NEED LOOT MORE OF THAT.

>> Braude: DR. OJIKUTU, I WANT TO RETURN TO BOSTON, EVEN WITH THE LOWER POSITIVITY RATE, AS COMPARED TO NEW YORK CITY, 2.8%, COMPARED TO 5.2, MAYOR DE BLASIO MADE THIS STATEMENT TODAY ABOUT VACCINE MANDATES FOR ALL EMPLOYERS.

>> IT IS TIME -- LOOK, THIS IS HOW WE PUT HEALTH AND SAFETY FIRST, BY ENSURING THERE IS A VACCINE MANDATE THAT REACHES EVERYBODY UNIVERSALLY IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR SAID THEY BELIEVE IN VACCINES, AND THEY'RE NOT QUITE SURE HOW THEY CAN DO IT THEMSELVES, WELL, WE'RE GOING TO DO IT.

>> Braude: FOR QUITE A WHILE, NEW YORK CITY SAID IF YOU GO INTO A RESTAURANT OR A PERFORMANCE VANE VENUE, YOU HAVE TO BE VACCINATED.ATH WE'RE LOOKING AT ALL OF THE STRATEGIES, NOTHING IS OFF THE TABLE.

I THINK ONE OF THE IMPORTANT PIECES TO THIS IS REALLY HAVE SOME ROBUST DISCUSSIONS WITH EXPERTS IN THE FIELD.

AND THAT IS WHY THIS COVID-19 ADVISORY GROUP WAS STARTED, WHICH IS A VERY DIVERSE, DISCIPLINARY GROUP, INCLUDING DR. PIERRE, BUSINESSES, AND OTHER CIVIC LEADERS, AND COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATIONAL LEADERS, AND THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WE WANT TO WEIGH IN.

THIS IS OUR COMMUNITY, AND WE SHOULD BE A PART OF MAKING THESE DECISIONS.

>> Braude: SO BOTH OF THOSE COULD BE POSSIBLE IN THE FUTURE, YOU'RE SAYING?

>> I DO AGREE THAT BOTH OF THOSE COULD BE POSSIBLE IN THE FUTURE.

AGAIN, I DON'T THINK THAT ANYTHING IS OFF THE TABLE.

WE WANT TO DO WHAT IS BEST TO KEEP OUR RESIDENTS.

>> Braude: DR. PIERRE, CAN WE TALK ABOUT ONE OF THOSE FOR A MINUTE.

I'M STUNNED HOW FEW RESTAURANTS HAVE A VACCINE MANDATE, AND THE RESTAURANTUERS SAID THERE IS AN UNEVEN PLAYING FIELD.

WOULDN'T IT MAKE IT EASIER FOR ALL OF THE SMALL BUSINESSES, RESTAURANTS, FOR INSTANCE, WOULDN'T IT MAKE IT EASIER IF EVERYBODY OPERATED ON THE SAME SET OF RULES, AND EVERYBODY HAD TO LOOK AT PEOPLE'S CARDS TO KNOW THAT THEY WERE VACCINATED.

WOULDN'T THAT BE SAFER AND EASIER?

>> Doctor: WELL, SAFER, POTENTIALLY.

EASIER -- YOU KNOW, IT CERTAINLY HELPS IF THERE IS SOME KIND OF GUIDANCE IN PLACE.

BUT THERE ARE OTHER DOWNSTREAM EFFECTS OF ASKING SMALL BUSINESSES TO TAKE ON ON THE BURDEN OF CHECKING, TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE TRULY BEEN VACCINATED.

I THINK GUIDANCE IS A PLACE, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH MASKS, WHICH ALLOWS BUSINESSES TO REQUEST THAT PEOPLE COME TO THEIR STORE WITH MASKS, AND NOT HAVE TO ENGAGE IN CONVERSATION AND BACK AND FORTH DISCUSSION.

BUT I THINK THE LOGISTICS OF PUTTING THIS IN PLACE AND MANDATING IT, I THINK IT CAN LOOK VERY DIFFERENT.

AND SO I THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS STILL -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE STILL LOOKING FOR STANDARDS, OR PEOPLE ARE STILL LOOKING FOR STANDARDS.

>> Braude: FROM WHAT I HEAR, IT IS WORKING PRETTY SMOOTHLY IN NEW YORK.

ONE LAST THING THAT WAS SAID TODAY, DR. OJIKUTU, THAT WAS REALLY FRIGHTENING -- I THINK ON THE STATE LEVEL, THE RACIAL DISPARITY IN TERMS OF VACCINATIONS AMONGST ADULTS IS DIMINISHING.

THE NUMBERS ARE COMING CLOSER.

THE NUMBERS YOU RELEASED TODAY ABOUT KIDS FIVE TO 11, YOU SAID A QUARTER OF THEM WERE VACCINATED.

57% OF WHITE KIDS ARE IN THAT QUARTER.

ONLY 10% OF LATINO CHILDREN, AND ONLY 8% OF BLACK KIDS.

WHAT'S THE STRATEGY TO LEVEL UP THOSE FRIGHTENING NUMBERS.

>> Doctor: WELL, IT IS A MULTI-TIERED STRATEGY.

AND I HAVE TO SAY I AM ALSO DISTURBED BY THOSE FIGURES.

THOSE DISPARITIES ARE QUITE STARK.

FIRST WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS DO SOME EDUCATION, COMMUNITY OUTREACH, AND SOME TRUST-BUILDING IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

THIS IS A SIMILAR PROCESS THAT WE DID WITH ADOLESCENCE AND ADULT VACCINATIONS.

THAT IS WORKING WITH OUR EQUITY GRANT ORGANIZATIONS, THEY HAVE BEEN FUNDED TO DO THIS BOOTS ON THE GROUND WORK.

THEY KNOW THEIR COMMUNITIES.

THAT IS NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO IS WORKING WITH THE BOSTON PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM AND MAKING SURE THAT THE VACCINES ARE AVAILABLE TO OUR COMMUNITY PARTNERS AT SCHOOLS, SO IT IS CONVENIENT FOR CHILDREN.

AND THEN IT IS ALSO ABOUT HAVING MORE COMMUNITY-BASED SITES AVAILABLE.

NOT EVERY PARENT CAN TAKE THEIR CHILD TO GET A VACCINE DURING BUSINESS HOURS.

MAKE SITES AVAILABLE ON SATURDAYS.

WE NEED TO DISPEL FEARS, WE NEED TO BUILD TRUST, AND WE NEED TO INCREASE ACCESS.

>> Braude: BEFORE YOU GO, DR. PEE PIERRE, FIRST FOR YOU, AND THEN TO YOU, DR. OJIKUTU, HOW WORRIED ARE YOU ABOUT THE NEW VARIANT?

AND SOME PEOPLE ARE FOLLOWING THE PRESIDENT'S CALLS AND NOT PANICKING, BUT HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU?

>> >> Doctor: WE KNOW THAT OMICRON IS HERE.

WHEN WE HEAR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT THE TREND FOR TRANSMISSION LOOKS LIKE -- WE KNOW WE'RE STARTING AT A HIGHER LEVEL OF INFECTION DUE TO THE DELTA SURGE IN THE SUMMER.

AND AS WE MOVE INDOORS WITH POTENTIALLY TWO HIGHLY TRANSMISSIBLE VARIANTS, IT IS CERTAINLY A CONCERN.

BUT WE'RE IN A DIFFERENT PLACE THAN WE WERE LAST YEAR.

I WOULD SAY MY CONCERN REMAINS AS IT WAS IN THE SUMMER WITH DELTA, FOR THOSE UNVACCINATED, AND, OF COURSE, FOR CHILDREN WHO ARE UNVACCINATED.

AND ALSO THOSE WHO ARE NOT YET ELIGIBLE.

>> Braude: DR. OJIKUTU, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON OMICRON EARLY ON?

>> Doctor: SO I AM DEFINITELY CONCERNED.

I THINK THAT ANY REASONABLE RESEARCHER, SCIENTIST, PUBLIC HEALTH PROFESSIONAL, WOULD BE CONCERNED WHEN FACED WITH A VARIANT THAT HAS AS MANY MUTATIONS AT THIS PARTICULAR VARIANT INVOLVING THE SPIKE PROTEIN.

IT IS SOMETHING WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT IN TERMS OF TRANSMISSION, VACCINE EFFICACY IN LIGHT OF THIS.

I THINK WHAT I'M MOST CONCERNED ABOUT IS THE FUTURE.

IF WE DON'T VACCINATE THE WORLD, THIS IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO HAPPEN.

SO THAT IS REALLY WHAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE NEED TO BE FOCUSED IN ON.

I THINK OUR INFRASTRUCTURE WILL HANDLE WHAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S MY HOPE.

AND THAT WE WILL BE OKAY WITH THESE MITIGATION STRATEGIES THAT WE DISCUSSED.

BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE OKAY LONG-TERM IF WE CONTINUE TO HAVE PEOPLE UNVACCINATED THROUGHOUT OUR GLOBE.

AND THIS IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO HAPPEN.

>> Braude: I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

DOCTOR OJIKUTU AND DR. PIERRE, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> Braude: FOR AS OFTEN AS WE TALK ABOUT GUN VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY, WHICH IS FAR TOO OFTEN, WE'RE RARELY ABLE TO REALLY GET INTO THE MANY COMPLEXITIES OF EACH SITUATION -- THE EFFECT OF SHOOTING ON THE FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES AFFECTED AND THE SOCIAL ELEMENTS THAT CONTRIBUTED.

ONCE AGAIN TODAY, IMAGES OF A SCHOOL SHOOTING SUSPECT ARE BEING PLASTERED ACROSS NEWSPAPERS, TVs, AND WEBSITES, ALONG WITH THOSE OF HIS PARENTS, AFTER FOUR STUDENTS WERE KILLED AT OXFORD HIGH SCHOOL IN MICHIGAN.

>> THIS COUNTRY'S LATEST DEADLY SCHOOL SHOOTING AT A HIGH SCHOOL NORTH OF DETROIT.

>> BREAKING IN OUR NATIONAL LEAD, A HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTING.

>> TODAY, AT YET ANOTHER SCHOOL, STUDENTS, TEACHERS, PARENTS, TERRIFIED AND SCRAMBLING.

>> Braude: THE ACCUSED SHOOTER FACES 24 FELONY COUNTS, INCLUDING FOUR COUNTS OF FIRST-DEGREE MURDER.

AND HIS PARENTS ARE CHARGED WITH INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER, ACCUSED OF BUYING A GUN FOR THEIR SON AND THEN IGNORING SERIOUS WARNING SIGNS AFTER, INCLUDING VIOLENT PICTURES AND MESSAGES THEIR SON WROTE.

AND THEN YOU KNOW WHO ELSE IS GETTING A LOT OF ATTENTION TODAY?

REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN THOMAS MASSIE OF KENTUCKY FOR THIS SO-CALLED CHRISTMAS PHOTO, IN WHICH HE ASKS SANTA FOR AMMO.

A POST HE THOUGHT WAS APPROPRIATE TO SHARE JUST DAYS AFTER THE OXFORD MURDERS.

I GUESS IN MASSIE'S DEFENSE, NEARLY ANY TIME IS IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO A MASS SHOOTING EVENT THESE DAYS.

BUT A NEW COLLABORATION AIMS TO, AS THEY PUT IT, CHANGE THE NARRATIVE ON GUN VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY.

IT'S A JOINT INITIATIVE BETWEEN EMERSON COLLEGE, THE CENTER FOR GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION AT MASS GENERAL, AND THE LOUIS D.BROWN PEACE INSTITUTE.

THAT LAST GROUP WAS FOUNDED BY TINY CHERY, AFTER HER SON WAS SHOT AND KILLED ON CHRISTMAS EVE 28 YEARS AGO.

SHE'S JOINED ME MANY TIMES, INCLUDING A FEW YEARS BACK, WITH A VERY DIFFERENT NARRATIVE, ALONGSIDE THE MAN WHO KILLED HER SON.

>> WE ARE ALL IMPACTED WHEN VIOLENCE HAPPENS.

IT'S NOT JUST THE INDIVIDUAL.

THIS IS NOT JUST A BLACK CHILD THAT'S IN GUNS AND DRUGS.

THIS IS ABOUT A SOCIETY, AND BY EXTENDING AND SHOWING WHO WE ARE AS HUMAN BEINGS, IT IS AN EXAMPLE.

THIS IS A HUMAN ISSUE.

PEOPLE ARE DYING EVERY SINGLE DAY.

>> Braude: TINY CHERY, PRESIDENT AND C.E.O.

OF THE LOUIS D. BROWN PEACE INSTITUTE JOINS ME NOW.

ALONG WITH PETER MASIAKOS, PEDIATRIC GENERAL AND THORACIC SURGEON AT MASS GENERAL HOSPITAL AND ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL.

AND ERIC GORDON, PROFESSOR OF CIVIC MEDIA AND DIRECTOR OF THE ENGAGEMENT LAB AT EMERSON COLLEGE.

WELCOME TO ALL THREE OF YOU.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS, IN.

>> THANK YOU FOR INVITATION.

>> Braude: TINA, IN YOUR ANNOUNCEMENT LAST WEEK, AS I SAID -- ALL THREE OF YOU SAID THE GOAL IS TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE AROUND GUN VIOLENCE.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

OH, MY GOSH, FOR ME, IT MEANS EXACTLY THAT.

OM SIDESHOMICIDES CONTINUE TO HAPPEN, THE C.D.C.

TELLS US THERE IS A CONVENIENCE IT IS HAPPENING, BUT WE ALWAYS FOCUS ON THE PERSON THAT COMMITTED THE CRIME.

WE TEND TO FORGET THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS THAT ARE LEFT BEHIND, AND THEN NOTHING CHANGES.

WE STILL PUT ATTENTION AND WE SENSATIONALIZE THE ACT AND WE FORGET ABOUT THE IMPACT AND THE ONGOING PEOPLE THAT ARE BEHIND, THAT ARE IMPACTED BY THAT GUN VIOLENCE.

AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU LOOK LIKE ME.

SO FOR US, IT IS CHANGING THE NARRATIVE.

HOW DO WE -- VIOLENCE HAS IMPACTED ME, AND IT CONTINUES TO IMPACT ME.

I DON'T WANT TO GIVE ATTENTION TO THAT.

I WANT TO SHIFT THE NARRATIVE AND FOCUS ON THE HEALING AND WHAT ELSE CAN WE DO TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF THE GUN VIOLENCE?

>> Braude: AND, ERIC, ONE OF THE REASONS I THINK THE THREE OF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE NARRATIVE IS ESCHEWED AS IT IS, BECAUSE THE MEDIA DO A ROTTEN JOB.

THE EXAMPLE THE THREE OF YOU DEPOSITED IN THE PIECE YOU WROTE FOR THE DORCHESTER REPORTER, I THINK IT WAS IN EARLY NOVEMBER, THREE POLICE OFFICERS WERE SHOT BY A MAN WHO HAD A LONG HISTORY OF MENTAL ILLNESS.

HE WAS KILLED.

WHAT DID WE GET SO WRONG THERE?

>> WELL, THE QUESTION IS NOT SO MUCH WHAT THE MEDIA GOT WRONG, BUT WHAT THE FOCUS OF THE MEDIA ATTENTION WAS, RIGHT?

SO THE DETAILS WERE CORRECT, BUT WE HAVE LIMITED MEDIA SPACE AND LIMITED ATTENTION SPAN, SO WHAT ARE WE SPENDING OUR TIME ON?

AND WHAT CAN WE DO TO TELL THAT STORY A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY, ABOUT WHY?

WHAT ABOUT THE BACK STORY?

WHAT ABOUT THE REAL MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES THIS MAN WAS GOING THROUGH?

HOW DO WE FOCUS ON THAT?

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO.

WE'RE TRYING TO CHANGE WHAT THE MEDIA FOCUSES ON, NOT SO MUCH THE ACCURACY.

>> Braude: IN THIS INITIAL RELEASE THAT THE THREE OF YOU PUT OUT, YOU SAID WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO UNDERSTAND THE CAUSES AND SOCIAL DETERMINEN ANCE.

DO YOU THINK THE AVERAGE CONSUMER OF THIS INFORMATION DOESN'T GET THAT ENOUGH?

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT IT IS NOT GOTTEN BY THE CONSUMER.

THE CONSUMER CLEARLY GETS IT.

THE PUBLIC OPINION IS ON THE SIDE OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS GOING ON AND HOW TO FIX IT.

I THINK FOR THE SAME REASONS THAT ERIC REPORTS THAT WE HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE REALITY OF GUN VIOLENCE IS.

AND HOW TINA EXPRESSES FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONSISTENTLY BEEN THE VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE TO BE DISMISSED BY BYLINES IS REALLY -- THESE ARE LIFELONG PATIENTS.

AND YOU STARTED THIS SEGMENT WITH THE IDEA OF A HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE THING THAT HAPPENED IN MISSION.

IN MICHIGAN.

AND THE LAST TIME I WAS ON YOUR SHOW, IT WAS A HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE THING THAT HAPPENED IN SANDY HOOK.

THE REALITY IS ON THAT DAY, HOW HORRIFIC IT IS THAT FOUR CHILDREN THAT WERE CELEBRATING THANKSGIVING WITH THEIR FAMILIES JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO, CAN'T CELEBRATE THE MERRY CHRISTMAS THAT CONGRESS MASSIE POSTED ON THAT CARD, THE REALITY IS EIGHT OTHER CHILDREN WERE KILLED, AND THEY DIDN'T GET A STORY.

ANDAND A HUNDRED AMERICANS WERE KILLED AND THEY DIDN'T GET A STORY.

AND THE VICTIMS' FAMILIES THAT DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF A LOST LOVED ONE LASTS FOR OUR WHOLE CAREERS.

AND IT JUST ENDS AT THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT.

LIKE TINA'S SON'S LIFE ENDED AT THE EMERGENCY CENTER.

AND NO ONE THINKS ABOUT THAT.

>> Braude: TINA, SPEAKING OF YOUR SON'S LIFE -- I PLAYED THAT VIDEO THAT I STILL CAN'T GET OVER, AND I HAVE SEEN YOU AT WALKS FOR PEACE WITH THE MAN WHO KILLED YOUR SON, AND I HAVE NEVER HEARD YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE TALK ABOUT THAT TWO FAMILIES SUFFERED, NOT JUST YOUR FAMILY THAT LOST YOUR SON, BUT THE SHOOTER'S FAMILY AS WELL.

IS THAT AN IMPORTANT PART THAT WE HAVE TO START INTEGRATING INTO THESE NARRATIVES?

>> WE MUST INTEGRATE INTO THE NARRATIVES.

THIS CITY, THIS COUNTRY, INVESTS IN ADDRESSING THE ISSUE OF GANG VIOLENCE, AND WE INVEST, AND WE IN VERI.

INVEST.

WE INVEST POLICE, WE INVEST PRISONS, AND WE HAVE ALL OF THESE PROGRAMS.

WHEN THESE YOUNG MEN END UP DEAD AND THEN THERE IS THEIR FAMILY.

SO THE CYCLE COINS CONTINUES TO HAPPEN.

IT IS WAY DEEPER THAN THE GUN AND THE GANG.

IT IS A SOCIETAL ISSUE.

I ALWAYS LOOK AT WHAT IF IT WAS MY SON WHO WAS DEALING WITH THE ISSUE OF GUNS AND GANGS, WHAT WOULD I WANT?

SO WE NEED TO INCLUDE FAMILIES.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, DOCTOR, IN TERMS OF THE VICTIMS AND HOW WE DEFINE VICTIMS, I HAVE TO SAY, KAREN McDONALD, WHO IS THE PROSECUTOR IN THIS MICHIGAN SHOOTING CASE, EVEN THOUGH IN MY OPINION HE IS DOING FAR TOO MANY INTERVIEWS, BUT THAT IS JUST ONE MAN'S OPINION -- I THOUGHT SHE NAILED IT WHEN SHE WAS ASKED EARLY ON ABOUT WHY SHE FILED TERRORISM CHARGES AGAINST THE SHOOTER IN THIS CASE, TOO.

HERE IS PART OF WHAT SHE HAD TO SAY.

>> WHEN WE SAT DOWN AND TALKED ABOUT THE CHARGES THAT WERE APPLICABLE IN THIS CASE, THE CHILDREN THAT I HAVE JUST LISTED, AND THOSE THAT WERE INJURED, THEY ARE THE VICTIMS IN THE FIRST-DEGREE MURDER CHARGES, AND THE ASSAULT WITH INTENT TO MURDER, BUT WHAT ABOUT ALL THESE OTHER CHILDREN?

WHAT ABOUT ALL OF THE CHILDREN WHO RAN, SCREAMING, HIDING UNDER DESKS?

WHAT ABOUT ALL OF THE CHILDREN AT HOME RIGHT NOW WHO CAN'T EAT AND CAN'T SLEEP AND CAN'T IMAGINE A WORLD WHERE THEY COULD EVER SET A FOOT BACK IN THAT SCHOOL?

THOSE ARE VICTIMS, TOO, AND SO ARE THEIR FAMILIES AND THE COMMUNITY.

AND THE CHARGE OF TERRORISM REFLECTS THAT.

>> Braude: FORGET THE CRIMINAL CHARGE, BUT WHAT SHE IS DESCRIBING IS IN PART WHY THIS COLLABORATION EXISTS, IS IT NOT?

>> IT IS.

IT IS EXACTLY WHY THIS COLLABORATION EXISTS.

IT IS BEYOND THE SCROAP OF SCOPE OF THE KIDS WHO ARE RUNNING FROM A GUY WITH A GUN.

IT IS EXACTLY THE REASON WE HAVE DRILLS.

AND EVERY YEAR KIDS HAVE TO FACE THE CONSEQUENCES OF LEARNING HOW TO ESCAPE AN INTRUDER AT A SCHOOL, WHICH SHOULD BE THE SAFEST PLACE IN THEIR LIVES.

HOWEVER, THAT SAID, EVERY DAY IN NEIGHBORHOODS OF COLOR, IN BOSTON, WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE SAFEST CITY AND SAFEST STATE IN THE COUNTRY, EVERY DAY KIDS IN NEIGHBORHOODS OF COLOR CAN'T WALK TO SCHOOL BECAUSE THEY'RE DODGING BULLETS.

THEY CAN'T FALL ASLEEP BECAUSE THEY'RE LISTENING TO GUNFIRE.

SO WE HAVE TO DO THIS BETTER, AND WE HAVE TO ASK THE PEOPLE WHO ARE INVESTED IN IT TO HELP US.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, ERIC, THERE SEEMS TO BE A CONSENSUS, NOT JUST AMONG THE THREE OF YOU BUT ALSO IN THE LARGER SOCIETY, IS WE SPEND FAR TOO MUCH TIME TALKING ABOUT THE PERPETRATOR AND TOO LITTLE TIME ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE.

ONE EXTREME EXAMPLE OF ANDERSON COOPER, AND I'M A HUGE FAN OF HIS, BUT I FIND IT ODD HE WILL NEVER EVEN MENTION THE NAME OF A SHOOTER OR SHOW HIS OR HER PICTURE.

IS THAT GOING TOO FAR, OR IS THAT THE KIND OF THING THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL?

>> I THINK IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL.

BECAUSE WHAT IT DOES IS SHIFT OUR FOCUS ON THAT NATIONAL SCALE.

I DON'T KNOW THAT ANDERSON COOPER IS ACTUALLY SPENDING THE TIME THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SPENT ON THAT SHOOTER ON OTHER THINGS, THE REAL IMPACT ON FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES.

I WISH THAT WAS THE CASE.

BUT MAYBE THAT IS THE KIND OF MODEL THAT OTHERS OF US SHOULD FOLLOW.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, TINA, WHO IS THE AUDIENCE FOR THIS?

I'M ASSUMING THIS COLLABORATION WAS NOT CREATED WITH THE THOUGHT THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN ANTI-GUN REFORM LEGISLATORS ARE GOING TO HAVE AN EPIPHANY.

I ASSUME THIS IS MORE ABOUT CHANGING THE MINDSET AND THE CULTURE AROUND THESE THINGS.

IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

>> THAT IS, BECAUSE, I MEAN, AGAIN, I'VE BEEN AT THIS 28 YEARS.

28 YEARS.

I DONE THE GUN CONTROL, I'VE DONE THE HBO, I'VE TALKED TO LEGISLATORS, I'VE TESTIFIED.

THIS IS ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE.

HOW DO WE BEGIN TO TREAT EACH OTHER WITH DIGNITY AND COMPASSION?

AND HOW DO I SEE THE NEXT PERSON AS MY NEIGHBOR?

WHAT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY TO MY NEIGHBOR?

OUR CHILDREN ARE IN SCHOOL.

A CHILD DOES NOT WAKE UP AND THEN WANT TO KILL.

THERE ARE ALL OF THESE SIGNS THAT ARE THERE.

WHAT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY?

SO THE AUDIENCE SAYS THESE YOUNG PEOPLE, THESE STUDENTS, MAY BE JOURNALISTS.

THEY MAY GO INTO THIS WORLD.

THE COMMUNITY IS WAITING TO BE A PART OF THAT.

SO THE THREE OF US HAVE MADE A COMMITMENT.

IT IS NOT JUST ME.

WE HAD OVER 250 PARTICIPANTS THAT WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN SOMETHING.

WE DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER, BUT WORKING TOGETHER, PROVIDING A SPACE, AND THEN SHOWING THE ASSET, PROVIDING HEALING MODELITIES, VIOLENCE IS STILL HAPPENING, AND IT IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

BUT WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE SURE YOU AS A FAMILY, YOU AS A COMMUNITY, HAVE WHAT YOU NEED.

THEN WE HOLD SYSTEMS ACCOUNTABLE AND THEN WE EDUCATE.

WE'RE STILL RESPONDING TO 500 HOMICIDES IN PHILADELPHIA.

FAMILIES ARE NOT BEING TREATED EFFECTIVELY AND EQUITABLY BECAUSE OF THEIR CRIMINAL RECORDS.

HOW DO WE EQUIP THE HOSPITALS TO RESPOND?

HOW DO WE HELP THE MEDIA TO RESPOND?

AND HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT OUR CITIES AND OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE THE TOOLS THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE TO RESPOND TO THE FAMILIES?

LOOKING AT WHAT THE CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL SAYS, LOOKING AT WHAT THE RESEARCH SAYS ALL TO INTERRUPT CYCLES OF, INTERVENTION MUST HAVE AT MULTIPLE LEVELS.

HERE HAVE YOU TWO TWO MEN AND A BLACK WOMAN.

IT SOUNDS LIKE A STORY IN A BAR.

I'VE DONE AS MUCH AS I COULD DO.

BUT NOW I HAVE A MEDICAL INSTITUTION AND A HIGHER LEARNING INSTITUTION.

>> Braude: TINY CHERY, IT IS THREE WHITE GUYS AND A BLACK WOMEN.

>> THREE WHITE GUYS.

>> Braude: I'VE GOT 10 SECONDS, DOCTOR.

>> THIS EDUCATION SPANS THE GAMUT HERE.

WE AS MEDICAL PROVIDERS ASK THE QUESTIONS WHY DO YOU WANT A GUN?

WHY DO YOU NEED A GUN?

DO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO A GUN?

AND WHY IS IT THERE IN THE SENSE OF A DOMESTIC ADULT?

AND WE'RE NOT ASKING THE QUESTIONS RIGHT BECAUSE WE'RE NOT ASKING THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS.

WHICH IS WHY TINA AND ERIC ARE HERE.

>> Braude: WE'VE GOT TO GO.

I WISH ALL THREE OF YOU A LOT OF LUCK.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> YOU CAN FIND MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THIS COLLABORATION AT transformnarratives.org.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING, AND PLEASE STAY SAFE.