>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO." HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

A DIRE SITUATION IN GAZA AS A HUMANITARIAN CRISIS WORSENS AND ISRAELI STRIKES INTENSIFY.

THE DEADLIEST MONTH FOR JOURNALISTS IN 30 YEARS.

I SPEAK TO DYLAN COLLINS WHOSE COLLEAGUE WAS KILLED IN SOUTHERN LEBANON.

THEN WHAT DOES THE FUTURE LOOK LIKE FOR ISRAELI SECURITY?

FORMER POLITICIAN TURNED TECH ENTREPRENEUR TELLS ME NEXT.

AND WE REACH A CLIMATE TIPPING POINT AS COP28 ENTERS ITS FINAL DAYS, WHAT PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE?

I ASK THE UAE'S CLIMB MINISTER AND THE U.S. AGRICULTURE SECRETARY.

PLUS, AMERICA'S GLOBAL DUTY.

SENIOR FELLOW AT THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE KORI SCHAKE EXPLAINS.

>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

MARK J. BLESHNER.

CEETON J. MELVIN.

CHARS ROSENBLUM.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

>>> ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU, THANK YOU.

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

IN TWO MONTHS OF WAR BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS, THE DEATH TOLL HAS REACHED TERRIFYING HEIGHTS.

NEARLY 17,500 PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED IN ISRAELI ATTACKS ON GAZA ACCORDING TO THE HAMAS-CONTROLLED HEALTH MINISTRY.

AND NEW CASUALTIES HAVE BEEN REPORTED THIS WEEK AND THE WEST BANK, SOUTHERN LEBANON, AND NORTHERN ISRAEL.

MORE THAN 60 JOURNALISTS AND MEDIA WORKERS ARE AMONG THOSE KILLED.

A RECORD NUMBER, ACCORDING TO THE COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS.

ONE OF THOSE WHO LOST HIS LIFE IS REUTERS VIDEOGRAPHER ISSA ABIDALLAH ABDALLAH.

NEW INVESTIGATIONS BY TWO NEWS ORGANIZATIONS AND TWO HUMAN RIGHTS GROUPS SAY IT WAS ISRAELI TANK SHELLS THAT KILLED HIM AND INJURED SIX OTHERS.

HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH AND AFP CLAIM THE STRIKE WAS, QUOTE, DELIBERATE.

IN OCTOBER, ISRAEL CALLED THE DEATH A, QUOTE, TRAGIC THING WITHOUT ACKNOWLEDGING INVOLVEMENT.

HERE'S WHAT SPOKESMAN LEVY SAID.

>> THE GUIDING PRINCIPAL OF ISRAEL'S CAMPAIGN AGAINST HAMAS IS THAT WE UPHOLD THE PRINCIPALS OF INTERNATIONAL LAW REGARDING NECESSITY, DISTINCTION.

WE TARGET HAMAS, WE DO NOT TARGET CIVILIANS.

>> PART OF THAT GROUP OF JOURNALISTS INJURED IN SOUTHERN LEBANON IS JOURNALIST DYLAN COLLINS.

HE JOINS ME NOW FROM BEIRUT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

NEARLY TWO MONTHS LATER, MY FIRST QUESTION IS HOW ARE YOU DOING STILL?

PHYSICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY AFTER THAT DAY.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

IT'S BEEN TWO MONTHS OF GRIEF AND EXHAUSTION AS WE TRY TO WRAP OUR HEADS AROUND THIS BRUTAL DOUBLE TAP STRIKE ON A GROUP OF JOURNALISTS SIMPLY DOING THEIR JOB AND THE STRIKE THAT LED TO THE KILLING OF OUR FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE, ISSAM ABDALLAH FROM REUTERS.

>> WALK US THROUGH WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY.

>> SO THAT DAY WAS A PRETTY QUIET DAY.

WE WERE ALL COVERING EVENTS ON THE BORDER OF LEBANON WITH ISRAEL.

AT A CERTAIN POINT IN THE AFTERNOON, WE HEARD SOME BANGS OFF IN THE DISTANCE AND EVENTUALLY SAW A PLUME OF SMOKE.

SO THE REUTERS AND AFP TEAMS WENT CAUTIOUSLY TOWARD THE SMOKE AND ARRIVED TO THIS KIND OF EXPOSED HILL AND WE FOUND THE AL JAZEERA TEAM ALREADY BROADCASTING LIVE FROM THAT POSITION.

IT SEEMED LIKE THE PERFECT PLACE TO START WORKING.

WE'RE EXPOSED TO MULTIPLE ISRAELI POSITIONS ALONG THE BORDER.

EVERYONE WAS WEARING FLAK JACKETS, HELMETS WITH PRESS WRITTEN ACROSS OUR CHESTS.

WE HAD THREE LIVE FEEDS TO THREE INTERNATIONAL NEWS AGENCIES.

THE ISRAELIS HAD DRONES THERE THE ENTIRE TIME AND I IMAGINE, YOU KNOW, WITH THEIR STATE-OF-THE-ART SURVEILLANCE CAPABILITIES, THEY CAN SEE OUR FACES.

THEY PROBABLY KNEW WHICH CHANNELS WE WERE WORKING FOR.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAD BEEN FILMING FOR ABOUT AN HOUR, THIS PLUME OF SMOKE.

BUT AROUND 6:02 THAT EVENING, WE WERE STRUCK DIRECTLY.

37 SECONDS LATER, WE WERE STRUCK AGAIN IN THE SAME EXACT SPOT ALMOST.

>> AND BOTH YOU, AFP AND HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH, AS WE NOTED, HAVE REPORTED THE STRIKE WAS DELIBERATE AND TARGETED BY ISRAEL ON JOURNALISTS.

SO CNN IN CNN'S ANALYSIS HAS BEEN IN LINE WITH THE CONCLUSION THAT THE SHELL WAS ISRAELI BUT HAS NOT CONFIRMED THAT THE ATTACK WAS, QUOTE, DELIBERATE, AND IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO HIGHLIGHT THE DIFFERENCE THERE.

GIVE US AFP AND HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH'S ASSESSMENT FOR THE DECISION THEY MADE IN LABELING THIS AS DELIBERATE.

>> I CAN'T SPEAK FOR HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH AND I'M NOT GOING TO SPEAK -- I CAN TELL YOU WHAT I WITNESSED.

IT WAS TWO STRIKES 37 SECONDS APART.

ALMOST IN THE SAME EXACT LOCATION ON A GROUP OF JOURNALISTS, SEVEN JOURNALISTS ALL WEARING PRESS VESTS AND HELMETS WITH CAMERAS AND TRI-PODS, TWO STRIKES, 37 SECONDS APART IN NEARLY THE SAME EXACT POSITION.

YOU CAN SAY MAYBE IF THERE WAS ONE STRIKE, YOU CAN SAY IT IS A MISTAKE OR BY ACCIDENT.

THEY DIDN'T MEAN TO.

IF IT IS TWO STRIKES BACK TO BACK IN THE SAME EXACT SPOT, IT'S KIND OF HARD NOT TO SEE IT AS A DELIBERATE STRIKE.

>> SO THE IDF AS WE HEARD DENIES TARGETING JOURNALISTS.

CNN ASKED THE IDF FOR COMMENT ON THE ALLEGATIONS.

AN IDF SPOKESPERSON ON OCTOBER 14th CALLED ISSAM'S DEATH A TRAGIC THING WITHOUT ACKNOWLEDGING ANY ISRAELI ROLE AND HE LATER TOLD REUTERS, WE DO NOT TARGET JOURNALISTS, REITERATING WHAT THEY SAID.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE IDF'S RESPONSE AND HAVE YOU HEARD ANYTHING DIFFERENT FROM THEM SINCE THEN?

>> WELL, I MEAN, ALL OF THE INVESTIGATIONS RELEASED YESTERDAY POINTED TO A THIN STABILIZED 120 MILLIMETER TANK ROUND THAT KILLED ISSAM ABDALLAH.

I THINK THE EVIDENCE IS RELATIVELY CLEAR IN TERMS OF HOW THAT MUNITION COULD HAVE BEEN FIRED AT US.

>> YEAH.

WE SHOULD NOTE THAT SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN ON THURSDAY SAID THAT THE DEATH SHOULD INDEED BE INVESTIGATED.

CAN YOU TELL OUR VIEWERS MORE ABOUT ISSAM PROFESSIONALLY AND THE KIND OF PERSON THAT HE WAS?

>> ISSAM WORKED AS A JOURNALIST FOR 15 YEARS.

HE WAS THE BEATING HEART OF THE PRESS SCENE HERE IN BEIRUT.

HIS LOSS IS FELT ACUTELY.

HE'S A FUNY, HE WAS A FUNNY, KIND, SWEET MAN WHO LOVED FOOD, MOTORCYCLES, CORNY JOKES, PREFERABLY, YOU KNOW, ALL THREE COMBINED.

HE LOVED ANIMALS AND HAD A HABIT OF ADOPTING STRAY CATS.

MY THOUGHTS ARE REALLY WITH HIS FAMILY AND COLLEAGUES AS THEY STRUGGLE WITH HIS TRAGIC KILLING.

>> HOW ARE THEY DOING?

>> I MEAN, HOW IS ANYONE DOING RIGHT NOW?

HIS MOM IS STRONG.

HIS SISTER IS INCREDIBLY STRONG.

IT IS SUCH A BRUTAL ATTACK ON JOURNALISTS SIMPLY DOING THEIR JOB AND SO INCREDIBLY UNEXPECTED THAT IT IS KIND OF HARD TO WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND.

>> WE KNOW THAT AFP PHOTOGRAPHER CHRISTINA ALSO WAS INJURED GRAVELY.

HAD HER LEG AMPUTATED AND REMAINS IN THE HOSPITAL.

CAN YOU GIVE US A STATUS ABOUT HOW SHE'S DOING?

HAVE YOU SPOKEN WITH HER?

>> YEAH.

I SEE HER PRETTY MUCH EVERY DAY IN THE HOSPITAL.

>> YOU VISIT HER.

>> YEAH.

SHE'S HERE IN BEIRUT IN THE HOSPITAL.

BUT SHE'S SUSTAINED DEVASTATING INJURIES TO BOTH LEGS.

WHICH LED TO THE AMPUTATION OF ONE OF HER LEGS.

SINCE OCTOBER 13th, SHE'S UNDERGONE MORE THAN 15 DIFFERENT SURGERIES.

SHE'S BEEN IN AND OUT OF THE ICU.

SHE'S BLED MORE THAN ANY HUMAN SHOULD BLEED.

SHE'S AN IMMENSELY STRONG PERSON AND HER STRENGTH HAS CARRIED ME THROUGH THE TRAUMA OF THESE PAST TWO MONTHS.

>> THAT DESCRIPTION THERE.

SHE'S BLED MORE THAN ANY PERSON SHOULD BLEED REALLY QUITE EMOTIONAL AND PUTS INTO PERSPECTIVE WHAT THE RISKS ARE FOR JOURNALISTS.

YOU'RE A SEASONED JOURNALIST.

YOU'VE COVERED CONFLICT ZONES BEFORE.

I'M WONDERING LASTLY, HOW THIS WAR DIFFERS IN THE PREVIOUS, FROM THE PREVIOUS BATTLES THAT YOU'VE COVERED.

>> I THINK, I MEAN, AS YOU SAID AT THE BEGINNING OF THE EPISODE, THERE'S BEEN A STAGGERING NUMBER OF JOURNALISTS KILLED.

THE NUMBERS PUT OUT BY CPJ, THE COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS -- >> 63.

>> THE DEADLIEST CONFLICT ON RECORD FOR JOURNALISTS SINCE CPJ STARTED COLLECTING DATA 30 YEARS AGO.

AGAIN, THE DEATH TOLL IN GENERAL IN GAZA IS STAGGERING.

BUT I THINK EVERY TIME A JOURNALIST IS KILLED, THE WORLD LOSES A PAIR OF EYES, A WITNESS.

ISSAM ABDALLAH WAS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE TRYING TO SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER.

HOLD THOSE IN POWER ACCOUNTABLE.

AND YOU KNOW, I HATE THE FACT THAT I'M ON TELEVISION RIGHT NOW.

WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BECOME THE STORY.

WE'RE SUPPOSED TO TELL THE STORY.

>> AND YOU ARE.

>> MY JOB IS SUPPOSED TO BE BEHIND THE CAMERA.

>> YOU ARE TELLING THE STORY.

THIS IS THE REALLY BRUTAL SIDE OF WAR AS WELL AND YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES AND BRAVE FRIENDS WERE THERE AND SUFFERED, YOU KNOW, AT THE COST OF LOSING YOUR LIVES.

SO YOU ARE DOING YOUR JOB AND YOU ARE TELLING US ABOUT ISSAM AND HIS INCREDIBLE PERSONALITY AS WELL AS HIS WORK ETHIC AND TALENT.

SO THANK YOU.

THANK YOU FOR CONTINUING TO DO YOUR JOB HEAR.

I KNOW THAT IT'S NOT EASY.

IT'S NOT WHAT YOU EXPECTED WHEN YOU STARTED COVERING THIS WAR.

GIVE OUR BEST TO CHRISTINA.

IT SPEAKS VOLUMES TO YOUR EMPATHY THAT YOU VISIT HER EVERY SINGLE DAY.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>>> CALLS FOR AN IMMEDIATE CEASE-FIRE CONTINUE.

THE U.N. SECRETARY GENERAL ANTONIO GUTERRES DESCRIBED IT AS A THREAT TO INTERNATIONAL PEACE AND SECURITY.

WITH THE IDF CONTINUING TO BOMBARD GAZA, IS PEACE REALISTIC?

THE FORMER ISRAELI POLITICIAN TURNED TECH ENTREPRENEUR BELIEVES ISRAEL'S SECURITY CONCERNED CAN BE RESOLVED.

THE LAST TIME YOU AND I SPOKE, THIS WAS DIFFERENT.

MANY VIEWED IT AS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO ISRAEL AND THAT WAS THE JUDICIAL REFORMS AND THE ATTEMPTS TO BLOCK IT FOR MONTHS ON END.

AND NOW HERE THE COUNTRY IS FACING ITS WORST AND MOST CHALLENGING WAR SINCE ITS FOUNDING, REALLY, IN TERMS THE CASUALTY LOSS.

YOU HEARD THE CONVERSATION WITH DYLAN.

THERE IS VIRTUALLY NO PLACE IN THE IMMEDIATE REGION THAT HASN'T BEEN TOUCHED BY JUST THE DEATH TOLL AND THE TRAGEDY OF THIS ALL.

GIVE US A SENSE FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT CAN BE DONE TO MOVE THINGS FORWARD AND WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.

>> YES, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

JUST ANECDOTALLY, WE HAVE A BIG FOOD TECH AND AD TECH COMMUNITY ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BORDER FROM WHERE THE JOURNALIST WAS BEING HIT.

WHAT I CAN TELL YOU, ON THE NORTHERN BORDER BEFORE WE COME INTO GAZA, ISRAEL HAD NO QUARREL ON THE NORTHERN BORDER.

HEZBOLLAH WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE 29 KILOMETERS NORTH OF THAT, ACCORDING TO U.N.

RESOLUTION 1701, BEYOND THE RIVER, IS NOW SITTING ON THE BORDER, THREATENING ISRAEL.

AND I CAN ASURE, I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT ISRAEL HAS NO INTEREST, NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER TO HIT JOURNALISTS, AND THAT ISRAEL, ISRAELI CIVILIANS HAD TO BE EVACUATED FROM THE NORTHERN BORDER.

OUR HUB, 173 START-UPS HAD TO BE EVACUATED FROM THE NORTHERN BORDER BECAUSE HEZBOLLAH IS ON THE BORDER AND HEZBOLLAH IS PRESSING ISRAEL ALL THE TIME.

ISRAEL NEEDS TO PROTECT ITSELF.

>> NO DOUBT.

YOU ALSO THOUGH ARE CALLING FOR A PARADIGM SHIFT IN HOW ISRAEL APPROACHES ITS SECURITY.

THERE IS A LOT OF BLAME I KNOW, COMING EXTERNALLY BUT ALSO INTERNALLY FOR HOW NETANYAHU HAD MISCALCULATED HAMAS'S INTENTIONS AND THOUGHT THAT HE COULD WORK WITH THE ORGANIZATION IF THEY FOCUSED AND CAME TO TERMS WITH SOME SORT OF ECONOMIC POLICY.

THAT CLEARLY DID NOT HAPPEN.

SO WHAT IS THIS PARADIGM SHIFT THAT YOU'RE LAYING OUT?

>> SO IN 2014, I WAS IN THE SECURITY AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE.

I WAS BEFORE THAT IN SPECIAL FORCES IN ISRAEL.

AND WE HAD A BIG DEBATE AND SOME OF US THOUGHT THAT HAMAS SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT AND NETANYAHU AND SOME OF HIS GOVERNMENT THOUGHT THAT HAMAS SHOULD BE DEALT WITH BY GIVING THEM MONEY AND TRYING TO SEE WHETHER WE CAN CALM THEM DOWN.

SO THE PARADIGM SHIFT ON SECURITY IS THAT YOU CANNOT LIVE NEXT TO A TERROR-RUN STATE LIKE HAMAS.

HAMAS WILL NEVER BE A PARTNER WHERE WE CAN LIVE NEXT TO, AND WHAT ISRAEL IS DOING IN GAZA RIGHT NOW, AND WE NOW HAVE A COULD NOT ASSESS US IN ISRAEL THAT HAMAS NEEDS TO BE TAKEN OUT.

THE U.N.

NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

IF THERE IS ANY HOPE FOR THE PEOPLE OF GAZA, IF ANY RECONSTRUCTION WILL BE THERE FOR L IT, THERE NEEDS TO BE A COALITION THAT INCLUDES ARAB STATES THAT ISRAEL HAS A RELATIONSHIP WITH, LIKE EGYPT, LIKE BAHRAIN, SAUDI ARABIA, MANY OTHERS NEED TO STAND UP AND TOGETHER WITH THE PALESTINIAN ADMINISTRATION, TAKE CONTROL OF GAZA AND START BUILDING GAZA FOR LIFE AND NOT FOR DEATH.

BECAUSE IN THE LAST YEAR ALONE, $2.5 BILLION THAT WERE TRANSFERRED TO HAMAS IN GAZA WERE USED TO BUILD A 500-KILOMETER TERROR TUNNEL THAT THEY WON'T STOP USING UNLESS THEY ARE REMOVED.

I UNDERSTAND IT IS PAINFUL BUT IT IS A NECESSARY PROCESS.

>> FROM REPORTING, ALL INDICATIONS SUGGEST THAT BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, THOSE REGIONAL ARAB NEIGHBORS AND LEADERS ARE ALSO IN FAVOR OF GETTING RID OF HAMAS.

THE HARD PART IS HOW.

ASIDE FROM JUST ELIMINATING THE LEADERSHIP AND THOUSANDS OF THEIR TERRORISTS AND FIGHTERS, THE IDEOLOGY IS SO DEEPLY INGRAINED AND HAS BEEN FOR DECADES.

THEIR POPULARITY HAS ONLY INCREASED NOW WE KNOW IN THE WEST BANK.

EVEN IF THE P.A.

IS ALLOWED TO COME IN ON THE DAY AFTER, THAT IS A BIG IF.

NETANYAHU IS SAYING THAT WON'T HAPPEN.

THE PALESTINIAN OFFICIALS, THE P.A.

OFFICIALS JUST TODAY SAID THEY WOULD HAVE TO WORK WITH HAMAS.

SO HOW DOES YOUR PLAN ACTUALLY BEAR ANY FRUIT GIVEN THE DIFFICULTIES THAT IT TAKES TO GET RID OF HAMAS ALL IN ALL?

>> I WANT TO PUT THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE.

THE FUND THAT I MANAGE, A LOT OF WHAT WE'RE DOING, THE HEART OF WHAT WE'RE DOING IS IN JERUSALEM.

IN JERUSALEM, EVERY DAY WE COOPERATE WITH PALESTINIANS.

IN THE WEST BANK, EVERY DAY WE COOPERATE WITH PALESTINIANS.

OF COURSE, YOU REPORT THE EXTREMISTS BUT THERE ARE MANY MODERATE PALESTINIANS WE COOPERATE WITH.

SO WHAT IS OUR GOAL?

OUR GOAL THAT THE MODERATION THAT MANY OF US SEE IF THE DAY-TO-DAY OPERATION DOESN'T MEAN WE AGREE ABOUT EVERYTHING.

ISRAEL HAS HAD A COOPERATION SECURITY FIRM WITH THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS, EVEN WHEN WE DIDN'T AGREE ON ALL ISSUES.

THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY IN ITS NEW FORM, IN THE FORM THAT IS NOT CORRUPT, WITH SUPPORTING BY THE EGYPTIANS, BY THE UAE WHICH IS READY TO PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS, SUPPORT BY THE SAUDIS, BY BAHRAIN, NEEDS TO STAND UP AND START TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE ADMINISTRATION.

AND THAT IS WHERE ISRAEL NEEDS TO WORK WITH THE U.S., WITH EUROPE, WITH NATO, WITH THE OTHER COUNTRIES AS WELL, ABOUT COORDINATING THAT PROCESS.

AND THE ONE THING THAT WE ARE SAYING, YES, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO FIGHT IN THE TUNNELS, UNDERGROUND, OVER THE AIR.

WE NEED TO USE THE DIPLOMATIC HAND.

THE DIPLOMATIC HAND WAS THAT THAT ALLOWED US TO TAKE ARAFAT OUT OF BEIRUT IN 1982 WHEN WE FOUGHT THE PLO ON THE STREET.

THE DIPLOMATIC HAND NEEDS TO BE THE ONE THAT TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FROM GAZA AWAY FROM HAMAS AND INTO AN ADMINISTRATION WHICH WILL BE RESPONSIBLE, CHG WILL BUILD SCHOOL FOR THE PEOPLE, WHICH WILL BUILD PLACES FOR THE PEOPLE AND NOT AN UNDERGROUND TERROR TUNNEL.

IF THAT WILL BE BUILT AGAIN, ISRAEL WON'T ACCEPT IT.

IT WILL GO BACK IN THERE.

I'M TELLING THE U.N., I'M TELLING ALL THE DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS.

IF YOU WANT TO BRING SECURITY TO THE REGION, YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND JUST LIKE AS YOU REMOVED ISIS, YOU REMOVE AL QAEDA, YOU NEED TO REMOVE HEZBOLLAH.

YOU NEED TO REMOVE HAMAS FROM GAZA.

BECAUSE IF HAMAS STAYS IN GAZA, THE WAR WILL COME BACK AGAIN.

THERE'S NOTHING LIKE ISRAELI CITIZENS, THE ONES MASSACRED ON OCTOBER 7th IN THE KIBBUTZIM, IN THE CITIES, ARE THOSE CITIZENS THAT ACTUALLY CARED THE MOST ABOUT THE PALESTINIANS.

THEY WERE THE ONES THAT OPENED THE GATES TO ALLOW 30,000 PALESTINIANS TO COME TO WORK IN ISRAEL.

BUT WE UNDERSTAND THAT ALL THAT CANNOT CONTINUE TO HAPPEN WHEN HAMAS IS IN POWER.

HAMAS WILL BE TAKEN OUT AND THEN THE PALESTINIANS COULD BEGIN TO HAVE A PUT THE.

ISRAEL WILL SUPPORT THAT.

BUT ISRAEL REQUESTS AND DEMANDS MODERATION AND NOT A TERROR OF DEATH.

WE WANT A COUNTRY, A PLACE WHICH WILL BUILD LIFE.

IF PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE NEXT TO US, WE'LL GIVE THEM A HAND.

IF PEOPLE WILL TRY TO KILL US, WE WILL COME AFTER THEM.

>> NO SERIOUS PERSON, OR OBJECTIVE PERSON WOULD DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOU JUST LAID OUT.

BUT IN THAT, THE PARTNER, THE PARTNER IN HAND NOW FOR THE VISION THAT YOU'VE LAID OUT, FOR A NEW LESS CORRUPT NEW GENERATION OF P.A.

LEADERSHIP, IS THE COPARTNER FOR THAT IN YOUR VIEW NETANYAHU?

IS HE CAPABLE OF THAT?

>> NETANYAHU IS OUR CHOSEN PRIME MINISTER.

IT'S NOT A SECRET THAT I COME FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM AND I HAD MANY CRITICISMS OF NETANYAHU WHEN I WAS IN POLITICS AND OUTSIDE OF POLITICS.

I DON'T HAVE THE SAME VIEWS AS NETANYAHU.

EVEN NETANYAHU OR ANY OTHER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER NEEDS TO SEE THAT THERE'S ANOTHER ADMINISTRATION THERE IN GAZA.

WHERE I WOULD EXPECT ISRAEL TO WORK WITH THE U.S.

IN ORDER TO PROMOTE THAT IS TO START PROMOTING A VISION OF THE DAY AFTER, IN TERMS OF WHO TAKES CONTROL.

HAD A TAZ CONTROL OF THE PEOPLE, WHO TAKES KROL OF THE ADMINISTRATION.

NOT BUYING MISSILES BUT BEGINS TO BUILD HOUSING.

THAT IS SOMETHING WHICH IS DELICATE.

IT'S NOT EASY.

IT NEEDS A NEW CHAPTER.

NOT ONLY IN THE REGION.

IT NEEDS A NEW CHAPTER IN ISRAEL AS WELL.

BECAUSE ISRAEL IN THE REGION, ECONOMICALLY WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE ARAB STATES.

IT'S TIME THAT THE POLITICIANS UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE DOING ON THE ECONOMY.

WE'RE BUILDING AN ALLIANCE.

WE NEED TO BUILD ONE WITH RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE, WITH THE SUPPORT OF ARAB COUNTRIES AND GAZA TO BUILD THE MIDDLE EAST TO THE NEXT LEVEL, THE NEXT REGION.

IT TAKES COURAGE.

IT TAKES MILITARY COURAGE BUT IT ALSO TAKES BRAINS AND DIPLOMACY.

>> EREL MARGALIT, THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

AND HAPPY HANNUKKAH.

>> HAPPY HANNUKKAH TO YOU AS WELL.

>>> WELL, NOW, THIS YEAR WILL OFFICIALLY BE THE HOTTEST ON RECORD WITH MANY SCIENTISTS ALARMED THEIR PREDICTIONS ARE OUTPACING REALITY.

AS THE U.N.'S CLIMATE SUMMIT COP28 WRAPS ITS FIRST FULL WEEK IN DUBAI, QUESTIONS REMAIN OVER WHETHER TO PHASE OUT OR PHASE DOWN FOSSIL FUELS.

ANY SERIOUS ACTION MUST INVOLVE AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRIES, AMONG THE LEADING SOURCES OF GLOBAL EMISSIONS.

I HAD THE CHANCE TO TALK TO MARIAM ALMARI.

BEFORE WE GET TO THIS NEW INITIATIVE, LET ME ASK YOU.

WHAT IS THE MOOD LIKE THIS YEAR AT THIS YEAR'S COP SUMMIT, GIVEN THAT THERE IS A WAR ONGOING IN THE REGION NOT FAR FROM WHERE YOU ARE NOW, OBVIOUSLY, FOR A YEAR OF IN A.

WE'VE BEEN COVERING THE WAR IN UKRAINE AS WELL.

THE FOCUS THERE IS ON CLIMATE BUT OVERALL, WHAT IS THE SENSE YOU'RE GETTING FROM ATTENDEES ABOUT THE UNCERTAINTY DURING IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, I THINK THE UAE HAS DONE A REMARKABLE JOB OF WELCOMING THE WORLD TO THIS VENUE.

THEY HAVE PROVIDED A LOT OF SPACE.

THEY HAVE PROVIDED CONVENIENCE.

THEY'VE MADE THIS MEETING SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE ARE EXCITED TO BE.

TO BE INVOLVED IN.

AND THERE'S CERTAINLY A LOT OF ACTIVITY.

A LOT OF ANNOUNCEMENTS.

A LOT OF AGREEMENTS, A LOT OF INVESTMENTS TAKING PLACE.

THE MOOD HERE AS IT RELATES TO CLIMATE I THINK IS POSITIVE.

AND I THINK THEY'VE MADE A CONCERTED EFFORT TO INVOLVE YOUNG PEOPLE WHICH HAS AN IMPACT ON HOW PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT BEING HERE AT COP28.

THIS IS I THINK A SIGNIFICANT EFFORT ON THE PART OF UAE TO RESPOND TO THE CONCERNS THAT THEY'VE HEARD FROM PREVIOUS COPS AND I DON'T GET THE SENSE THAT THERE IS A WORRY OR CONCERN ASSOCIATED WITH WHAT MAY BE GOING ON AROUND US IN THE WORLD.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE EXCITED ABOUT, I KNOW FOR SURE, FOOD AND AGRICULTURE GETTING A SIGNIFICANT PLAY HERE AT COP28, MORE SO THAN AT ANY PREVIOUS COP.

IT HAS CERTAINLY MADE A DIFFERENCE FOR THE PEOPLE I TALKED TO.

>> WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.

YOU'RE SPEARHEADING THIS GOVERNMENT-LED INITIATIVE.

FOOD, SYSTEMS AND CLIMATE CHANGE COALITION OF ITS KIND.

TALK TO US ABOUT SOME OF THE AMBITIOUS GOALS YOU ARE HOPING TO ACHIEVE.

>> YEAH, OF COURSE.

FIRST OF ALL, OUR PARTNERSHIP WITH THE U.S. IS VERY STRATEGIC IN MANY AREAS, AND WITH SECRETARY VILSACK, THIS PARTNERSHIP HAS BEEN THROUGH THE AIM FOR CLIMATE PLATFORM.

WE'VE SPEARHEADED THIS FOR TWO YEARS AND WIE'RE SO HAPPY WITH THIS.

IF WE LOOK BACK AT COP27, WE HAD ABOUT 225 PARTNERS ON BOARD.

WE'VE MORE THAN DOUBLED, REACHING OVER 600 PARTNERS.

LAST YEAR AT COP27, WE HAD $8 BILLION OF COMMITTED INVESTMENTS.

WE'VE DOUBLED THAT AND REACHED OVER $17 BILLION OF COMMITTED INVESTMENTS, AND OF COURSE, WE HAVE OUR INNOVATION SPRINTS.

WE WERE LAST AREA AT 27.

THIS REALLY COME TO SHOW THAT THIS PARTNERSHIP HAS GROWN OVER THE PAST FEW MONTHS AND IS GROWING EXPONENTIALLY.

>> CAN YOU ELABORATE MORE ON THESE INNOVATION SPRINTS?

>> OF COURSE.

SO FIRST OF ALL, ADDING ON TO WHAT SECRETARY VILSACK SAID, HAVING FOOD AND AG ON CENTER STAGE AT DAY ONE AT THE LEADERS' SUMMIT WAS ANOTHER MILESTONE MOMENT.

WHAT WAS IMPORTANT HERE WAS TO GET THE POLITICAL WILL OF COUNTRIES TO ENSURE THAT FOOD AND AG SYSTEMS ARE PART OF THEIR NATIONAL ADAPTATION PLANS, PART OF THEIR BIODIVERSITY STRATEGY.

SO WE GOT 134 COUNTRIES ON BOARD ON DAY ONE FOR FOOD SYSTEMS IN AG.

WE'RE AT 146 SIGNATURES AND IT IS GROWING.

THIS IS THE POLITICAL WILL.

AND THEN AIM FOR CLIMB IS SERVING AS A PLATFORM TO GAIN TRACTIONS AND INVESTMENTS AND INNOVATIONS AND REALLY EXCELLING THE COLLABORATION AND SOME OF THE GREAT INNOVATIONS WE'RE SEEING HERE AND SO MANY PARTS.

SO MOSTLY WE'VE BEEN FOCUSING ON FOUR AREAS.

THE FARMERS IN LOW AND MIDDLE-INCOME COMPANIES.

THE SECOND IS IN THE EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES.

THE THIRD IS IN AGRO ECOLOGICAL RESEARCH AND THE FOURTH IS REDUCTION.

SO SOME OF THE GREAT INNOVATIONS WE'VE SEEN ARE THING LIKE FERMENTATION TECHNOLOGIES AND THE PLANT-BASED PROTEIN SPACE.

THERE'S ALSO MANY OTHER INNOVATIONS AND MAYBE SECRETARY VILSACK WOULD LIKE TO MENTION SOME OF THOSE.

IT IS SO GREAT TO SEE PARTNERS COMING IN, LOOKING AT INNOVATION THAT'S PARTICULARLY TOUCHES THEIR CHALLENGER.

AND THEY'VE BEEN IN THAT SPACE TO MAKE AN IMPACT ON THE GROUND.

>> SO MUCH OF THIS DEPENDS ON CHANGE AND BEHAVIOR.

WHETHER IT IS NATION CHANGE, WHETHER IT IS CORPORATE CHANGE IN CUTTING EMISSIONS AND HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND FOOD CONSUMPTION SECRETARY.

WHEN IT COME TO AMERICA'S FOOD PRACTICES, I WANT TO GET YOU TO RESPOND TO MEAT CONSUMPTION IN GENERAL.

THERE'S A NEW REPORT THAT SAYS IF IT DOESN'T CHANGE SIGNIFICANTLY AND ALONG WITH FARMING PRACTICES IN THE U.S., AGRICULTURE COULD BECOME THE BIGGEST SOURCE OF AMERICA'S EMISSIONS BY 2050.

AMERICANS EAT ALMOST 70% MORE MEAT PER CAPITA AS WE KNOW THAN EUROPEANS.

HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU ABOUT THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE?

WHAT CAN BE DONE TO CHANGE BEHAVIOR AND CHANGE THESE TRAJECTORIES WE'RE ON.

>> WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THAT THE LIVESTOCK INDUSTRY IN THE U.S. IS VERY ANXIOUS AND INTERESTED IN EMBRACING NEW TECHNOLOGIES TO REDUCE THEIR CARBON FOOTPRINT.

THEY BELIEVE AND I THINK THEY'RE RIGHT, THAT THEY CAN MAKE SIGNIFICANT STRIDES IN REDUCING METHANE.

CURRENTLY, WE'RE LOOKING AT WAYS IN WHICH DIFFERENT FEED WILL BE GIVEN TO LIVESTOCK WHICH WILL REDUCE THE.

A METHANE PRODUCED BY LIVESTOCK.

WE'RE LOOKING AT FOOD ADDITIVES THAT CAN FURTHER REDUCE IT.

AND IT CAN BE REUSED AS ENERGY OR IN A VARIETY OF OTHER BIOPRODUCT PROCESSING.

WE'RE SEEING SIGNIFICANT ITERATIONS IN MANAGEMENT WHICH WILL RESULT AS WELL IN A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION OF THE GREEN HOUSE GAS FOOT PRINT OF THE LIVESTOCK INDUSTRY.

SO THE INDUSTRY IS TAKING THIS VERY SERIOUSLY AND THEY ARE NOW INCENTED TO DO SO.

OUR CLIMATE SMART COMMODITY INITIATIVE IS ACTUALLY ENCOURAGING AND PAYING FARMERS TO EMBRACE MANY OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES AND THEN PROVIDING THEM A PREMIUM IN THE MARKETPLACE FOR WHAT THEY SELL THAT HAS BEEN PRODUCED IN A CLIMATE SMART WAY.

AT THE SAME TIME I THINK WE'RE EDUCATING CONSUMERS ABOUT THE WIDE VARIETY OF CHOICES THEY CAN MAKE AS THEY GO TO THE GROCERY STORE IN TERMS OF NUTRITIOUS DIETS.

SO A COMBINATION OF EDUCATION AND INCENTIVES.

I THINK YOU WILL SEE SIGNIFICANT REDUCTIONS IN TERMS OF METH AGE ASSOCIATED WITH THE LIVESTOCK INDUSTRY.

>> WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS TO MENTION FOOD LOSS AND FOOD WASTE.

I KNOW BOTH OF OUR COUNTRIES ARE WORKING ONLY ASPECT.

YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT CONSUMER BEHAVIOR.

I THINK THERE'S A HUGE AREA OF OPPORTUNITIES IN THE FOOD LOSS AND FOOD WASTE ACTIVITIES.

THE UAE IS SPEARHEADING A NATIONAL INITIATIVE WHICH MEANS BLESSING IN ARABIC.

ABOUT NUDGING BEHAVIOR, GETTING IT INTO SCHOOLS, INTO THE HORTICULTURE SECTOR.

HOW WE CAN NUDGE PEOPLE TO MAKE BETTER DECISIONS WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO FOOD LOSS AND FOOD WASTE.

SO THIS IS ALSO A HUGE REDUCTION.

>> AS FAR AS COMMITMENTS AND GOALS SET TO PHASE OUT FOSSIL FUEL USAGE, WE'VE SEEN MANY EUROPEAN COUNTRIES INCLUDING GERMANY SAYING THEY'LL MAKE A FOSSIL FUEL PHASEOUT A TOP PRIORITY IN THIS COP SUMMIT.

THEY SAID THE U.S.

SUPPORTS LARGELY PHASING OUT FOSSIL FUELS.

MADAM MINISTER, THERE'S CONCERN THAT PRIORITY ISN'T AS HIGH FOR SOME OF THE OIL-PRODUCING COUNTRIES.

OBVIOUSLY THE UAE HOSTING AS WELL.

WHAT ARE THE COMMITMENTS THE UAE HAS SET OUT IN REDUCING FOSSIL FUEL EMISSIONS?

>> FIRST OF ALL, THE COP28 PRESIDENT HAS BEEN VERY VOCAL PUBLICLY AND VERY ACTIVE TO MAKE SURE FOSSIL FUEL LANGUAGE IS BEING USED.

HE ACTUALLY MANAGED TO GET OVER 50 NATIONAL OIL COMPANIES WHICH COVER 40% OF GLOBAL OIL PRODUCTION TO COMMIT TO TWO TARGETS.

ONE IS ELIMINATING METHANE BY 2030.

NUMBER TWO IS FULLY DECARBONIZING BY 2050.

THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.

AGAIN, THIS COP28 IS A COP THAT INCLUDES EVERYBODY.

ALL SECTORS THAT ARE RESPONSIBLE AND HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTABLE.

IN THE UAE, WE ARE ALREADY ON A JOURNEY.

OUR TRANSITION STARTED MORE THAN 20 YEARS AGO.

WE HAVE FOUR OF THE LARGEST SOLAR PARKS IN THE WORLD.

WE HAVE A NUCLEAR-POWERED STATION WITH THE FOURTH UNIT OPERATIONALIZING IN Q1 IN 2024.

WE'RE EMBARKING ON WIND ENERGY AND OUR GDP RIGHT NOW, MORE THAN 72% OF OUR GDP IS NONOIL BASED.

AS A COUNTRY WE ARE ALREADY WORKING.

IN DIRECTION.

WE'RE RAMPING UP RENEWABLES, TRIPLING OUR CAPACITY BY 2030 WHILE OUR ENERGY SYSTEMS, IT IS SOMETHING THAT ALSO THE DOCTOR IS CALLING FOR COUNTRIES TO DO.

>> WE KNOW THAT HE'S RECEIVED SOME CRITICISM FOR COMMENTS EMWERE TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT ABOUT THEIR BEING NO SCIENCE A FEW WEEKS AGO BEHIND THE IDEA THAT FOSSIL FUELS NEED TO BE PHASED OUT IN ORDER TO ADDRESS CLIMATE CHANGE.

HE SAID THAT THEY WERE TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT.

I'M CURIOUS, ASIDE FROM EVERYTHING YOU JUST LAID OUT THERE.

DOES THE UAE BELIEVE THERE NEEDS TO BE A SET DATE FOR FOSSIL FUEL PHASEOUT COMPLETELY?

>> I WANT TO EXPLAIN IT THIS WAY.

FIRST OF ALL, THE IPC REPORT DOES STATE THAT FOSSIL FUELS WILL HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY BUT A MUCH SMALLER ROLE TO PLAY.

AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE.

PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH ENERGY IS INVOLVED IN ACTUALLY DEVELOPING OR BUILDING A SOLAR PANEL, AND ACTUALLY MAKING A TURBINE FOR WIND POWER.

YOU NEED THE CURRENT ENERGY SYSTEMS TO BUILD YOUR NEW ENERGY SYSTEMS OF TOMORROW.

AND YOU NEED TO RAMP THAT UP TO A CAPACITY TO BE ABLE TO TAKE UP BASE LOADS OF YOUR COUNTRY.

SO IN ORDER TO DO THAT, YOU NEED TO DO THAT FIRST BEFORE YOU CAN TALK ABOUT PHASING OUT FOSSIL FUELS.

WHAT WE NEED TO FOCUS ON NOW, BY 2030, WE NEED TO SLASH GLOBAL GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS BY 43%.

IT IS IMPORTANT WE RAMP UP RENEWABLES AND PHASE OUT FOSSIL FUEL EMISSIONS.

THAT'S OUR GOAL RIGHT NOW BEFORE WE CAN TALK ABOUT PHASING OUT FOSSIL FUELS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LAYING THAT OUT SO CLEARLY FOR US.

WE APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US FROM THE COP28 SUMMIT.

THANK YOU.

>>> WITH WARS RAGING AROUND THE WORLD, AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY IS UNDER THE SPOTLIGHT.

IT IS SOMETHING OUR NEXT GUEST SAID SHOULD BE AN URGENT PRIORITY FOR THE UNITED STATES.

KORI SCHAKE'S CURRENT PIECE OUTLINES HER VISION FOR A REPUBLICAN FOREIGN POLICY.

>> THANK YOU.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU.

>> IT SEEMS VERY IFFY THAT THE U.S. WILL CONTINUE AID TO UKRAINE FOR THE LONG TERM, AND MAYBE EVEN IN THE SHORT TERM IF CONGRESS CAN'T DO IT.

WHAT WOULD THAT MEAN FOR UKRAINE?

>> WELL, IT WOULD MEAN UKRAINE LOSES ITS WAR AGAINST RUSSIA'S INVASION.

THE UNITED STATES PROVIDES FULLY HALF OF THE WEAPONS ASSISTANCE THAT IS GOING TO UKRAINE, AND MY EXPERIENCE RUNNING COALITIONS IN THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT IS THAT WHEN THE UNITED STATES STEPS BACK, OTHER COUNTRIES STEP BACK EVEN FURTHER.

AND SO UKRAINE IS WHOLLY DEPENDENT ON THE ARMAMENTS OF THE FREE WORLD AND ALSO ON BUDGET SUPPORT TO KEEP ITS GOVERNMENT RUNNING.

RUSSIA HAS WHAT INCREASINGLY LOOKS LIKE A SUCCESSFUL STRATEGY OF PLAYING FOR TIME, WAITING FOR WESTERN COUNTRIES TO BE DISTRACTED, FOR OUR WEAPONS CACHES TO RUN SHORT, FOR OUR PUBLIC TO START DEMANDING CONCERN FOR OTHER THINGS.

AND DESPITE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES SAYING WE WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES, IT INCREASINGLY LOOKS LIKE WE DON'T HAVE A STRATEGY FOR VICTORY IN UKRAINE.

>> I READ YOUR PIECE IN FOREIGN AFFAIRS.

I KNOW YOU'RE STRONGLY SUPPORTIVE OF UKRAINE AND AIDING UKRAINE.

GIVEN WHAT YOU JUST SAID, WHAT IS PLAN B?

WHAT SHOULD THE U.S. AND UKRAINE BE DOING IF THIS IS NOT SUSTAINABLE?

IS THERE SOME POSSIBLE TRUCE OR CEASE-FIRE OR IS IT JUST GOING TO BE ENDLESS?

>> I DO NOT BELIEVE A TRUCE OR A CEASE-FIRE ARE POSSIBLE BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE RUSSIA WILL BE SATISFIED WITH THAT.

AND I DON'T BELIEVE EVEN IF YOU COULD GET A NEAR-TERM AGREEMENT WITH RUSSIA OVER A SETTLEMENT FOR UKRAINE, THAT IT WOULDN'T JUST BE BUYING RUSSIA TIME FOR REARMAMENT AND GETTING OUT, 94 TO RETURN TO THE CONQUEST OF UKRAINE.

I DON'T BELIEVE THEIR POLITICAL OBJECTIVE HAS CHANGED.

I AM AS YOU SUGGEST INCREASINGLY WORRIED THAT EVEN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION BEGINS TO TALK ABOUT WHAT UKRAINE SHOULD BE COMPROMISING, OR THAT UKRAINE SHOULD BE REALISTIC, BY WHICH THEY MEAN TO SAY, NOT HOLD THE UNITED STATES AT OUR WORD THAT WE WILL HELP THEM REGAIN ALL OF THEIR PEOPLE AND ALL OF THEIR INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED TERRITORY.

I THINK PLAN B IS MORE ASSISTANCE FASTER TO UKRAINE TO BREAK THE BACK OF RUSSIA'S INVASION.

>> LET ME PUSH BACK.

THAT SOUNDS GREAT.

AND I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU FEEL THAT WAY.

BUT IT'S PRETTY CLEAR CONGRESS IS NOT GOING TO RUSH MORE AID.

DON'T WE HAVE TO HAVE A STRATEGY IF THAT'S THE FACTS ON THE GROUND?

>> SO, MY READ OF CONGRESSIONAL OPPOSITION TO AID TO UKRAINE IS THAT THE VOTES ARE THERE FOR AID TO UKRAINE PROVIDED THAT THE WHITE HOUSE AGREES TO BORDER CONTROL MEASURES BECAUSE UKRAINE IS JUSTIFIABLY NOT THE ONLY THING PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT.

I DO THINK THE VOTES ARE THERE ON A BIPARTISAN BASIS FOR AID TO UKRAINE.

I ALSO THINK WE SHOULD BE THINKING AS YOU SUGGEST, WALTER, OF CREATIVE WAYS TO FINANCE CONTINUED AID TO UKRAINE.

LIKE TAKING THE INTEREST OFF THE $300 BILLION IN RUSSIAN CENTRAL BANK RESERVES THAT WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE HOLDING UNDER SANCTIONS.

THAT WAS A GREAT SUGGESTION.

THERE ARE OTHER THINGS WE CAN AND SHOULD BE DOING.

WE CAN PUSH INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS.

THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT SHOULD CONTINUE TO FUND UKRAINE IN MY OPINION, BUT ALSO THINKING OF BACK-UP PLANS IF CONGRESS BECOMES TRUCULENT ABOUT IT.

>> WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW AID TO UKRAINE IN CONGRESS, THE ISSUE IS BEING TIED TO THE BORDER ISSUE.

YOU DISCUSS IN YOUR PIECE, I THINK YOU CALL IT CHAOTIC.

THE BORDER SITUATION WE HAVE.

EXACTLY WHAT WOULD YOU DO AND WHAT IS IN THE REPUBLICAN PLAN THAT YOU THINK IS GOOD FOR DEALING WITH THE ASYLUM ISSUE AND DEALING WITH THE BORDER IN GENERAL?

>> YEAH.

SO THERE'S NOT ONE MAGIC BULLET THAT WILL FIX THIS.

IT IS A COMPLICATED PROBLEM.

THERE ARE 200,000 ATTEMPTS PER MONTH FOR ILLEGAL ENTRY INTO THE UNITED STATES ACROSS THE SOUTHERN BORDER.

BY WE NEED TO DO A BUNCH OF THINGS.

WE NEED TO SPEND MORE MONEY ON CUSTOMS AND BORDER PATROL AGENTS.

WE NEED MORE PEOPLE.

WE NEED MORE TECHNOLOGY SO THAT WE HAVE VISIBLE DEPTH TO OUR BORDER INSTEAD OF JUST ENCOUNTERING PEOPLE RIGHT AT THE BORDER.

WE NEED TO HAVE TRANSPARENCY TO SEE BROADER.

WE NEED DEEPER COOPERATION WITH MEXICO AND WITH OTHER COUNTRIES IN CENTRAL AMERICA.

SO THE SUTS A WONDERFUL PLACE TO COME FOR REFUGE BUT IT'S NOT THE ONLY PLACE PEOPLE CAN COME FOR REFUGE.

AND THINK THAT THROUGH.

WE NEED MORE COURTS TO ADJUDICATE ASYLUM CLAIMS.

PEOPLE ARE COMING INTO THE COUNTRY AND WAITING YEARS TO FIND OUT THEIR STATUS DIFFICULTY WORKING IN THAT TIME.

SO THERE ARE A BUNCH OF THINGS WE NEED TO DO DIFFERENT AND BETTER.

THEY'RE NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

THEY'RE BASIC GOOD GOVERNANCE ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO TURN OUR ATTENTION TO.

>> HOW IS THE SITUATION IN GAZA AND THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT MADE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH OUR SWAIN IN UKRAINE AND IN GENERAL MADE IT MORE DIFFICULT WITH FOREIGN POLICY AROUND THE WORLD.

>> I THINK IT HAS MADE THINGS MORE DIFFICULT FOR AMERICAN POLICY AROUND THE WORLD.

BECAUSE WE WANT THE SUPPORT OF COUNTRIES BEYOND EUROPE AND BEYOND THE WEST FOR UKRAINE AND FOR THE SECURITY OF ISRAEL.

AND THE TERRORIST ATTACK BY HAMAS INTO ISRAEL, THEY HAVE ACHIEVED THEIR OBJECTIVE WHICH IS ISOLATING ISRAEL INTERNATIONALLY.

AND THAT IS TERRIBLE.

IT'S BAD FOR PALESTINIANS.

IT'S BAD FOR ISRAELIS.

IT'S BAD FOR THE UNITED STATES.

A SECOND WAY IN WHICH IT HAS MADE AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY MORE CHALLENGING IS JUST THE BAND WIDTH ISSUE OF PAYING ATTENTION TO UKRAINE AND PAYING ATTENTION TO THE WAR IN GAZA AND IDENTIFYING OTHER POTENTIAL HOT SPOTS LIKE CHINESE ATTEMPTS TO INTIMIDATE THE PHILIPPINES IN THE CHINA SEA.

THE EAST CHINA SEA.

THOSE ARE ALL PROBLEMS AND ADVERSARIES LIKE IRAN, LIKE CHINA, MAYBE, ATTEMPTING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEM.

I GUESS THE THIRD WAY BOTH THE WAR IN GAZA AND THE WAR IN UKRAINE HAVE COMPLICATED AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY IS THAT THEY HAVE MADE CLEAR THAT WE HAVE SHORT-CHANGED OUR INDUSTRIAL BASE AND NEED TO REALLY RACE TO BE ABLE TO BECOME AN ARSENAL OF DEMOCRACY FOR OURSELVES AND FOR OUR ALLIES BECAUSE OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST OF 20 YEARS, ADMINISTRATIONS OF BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES HAVE ALLOWED A SHRINKING OF THE DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL BASE THAT IS INCONSISTENT WITH OUR OWN NEEDS, MUCH LESS THE NEEDS OF OUR ALLIES.

>> IN YOUR FOREIGN AFFAIRS PIECE, A CASE FOR CONSERVATIVE INTERNATIONALISM.

WHY HAS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND A LOT OF THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES NOW BECOME SO NONINTERNATIONALIST?

>> I THINK THERE ARE A COUPLE OF REASONS.

ONE IS THE LONG SHADOW OF THE MISTAKES OF THE INVASION AND MANAGEMENT OF THE IRAQ WAR.

I THINK THERE'S A FAIR AMOUNT OF WEARINESS THAT IT FEELS LIKE THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN AT WAR FOR A LONG TIME WITH NOT ENOUGH TO SHOW FOR IT.

>> LET ME STOP YOU THERE.

DOESN'T THAT HAVE, ADR.

KISSINGER THE OMINOUS TRUTH?

>> I REJECT THE FRAMING OF FOREVER WARS.

BUT I DO AGREE THAT, YEAH, I MEAN, AMERICANS EXPECT US TO DO BETTER THAN THAT.

AND THEY DESERVE TO EXPECT US TO DO BETTER THAN THAT.

>> AND WHAT -- >> YOU MEAN IN THE AFGHAN AND IRAQ WARS?

>> BASICALLY SINCE VIETNAM, WE HAVEN'T HAD A CLEAN ABILITY TO FIGHT A NEW TYPE OF WAR SUCCESSFULLY.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK WE DID PRETTY WELL IN THE 1991 GULF WAR.

I THINK THERE ARE OTHER INTERVENTIONS LIKE THE INTERVENTION IN THE BALKANS THAT WE DID IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE UNITED NATIONS THAT WE DID WELL.

I THINK THE PROBLEM IN BOTH AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ WARS WAS THAT WE WERE NOWHERE NEAR COMMITTING THE RESOURCES CONSISTENT WITH OUR POLITICAL OBJECTIVES.

AND SO THINGS BOGGED DOWN AND WE DIDN'T NARROW OUR POLITICAL OBJECTIVES.

WE JUST KEPT DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER.

AFGHANISTAN, IRAQ, UP UNTIL THE SURGE IN 2006 WHERE WE DID GET A WINNING STRATEGY AND DID ADEQUATELY RESOURCE IT, AND DID CHANGE OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH IRAQIS AND THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT IN ORDER TO MAKE IT SUCCESSFUL, BUT THEN TURNED IT OFF AROUND 2008 AND 2010.

IN GAAFGHANISTAN, WE DID TAKE, EVENTUALLY, I THINK WHAT IS THE RIGHT STRATEGY WHICH WAS TRANSFERRING RESPONSIBILITY TO AFGHANISTAN AND HELPING SUPPORT THEM UNTIL THEY HAD THE ABILITY TO DO THE WORK WE WANTED TO HAVE DONE.

BUT AGAIN, I THINK THE DECLINING LEGITIMACY OF THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT MADE THAT INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT TO ACHIEVE.

>> WE SAY WE NEED MORE RESOURCES AND IN YOUR PIECE YOU TALK ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF MORE MILITARY FUNDING.

I THINK THE U.S.

PROBABLY SPENDS MORE ON MILITARY THAN THE NEXT NINE COUNTRIES COMBINED.

IS IT THAT WE'RE NOT SPENDING ENOUGH MONEY OR WE HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT HOW TO DO IT EFFECTIVELY.

>> PREDOC DDOCUMENT FANLTLY THA WE'RE NOT SPECK ENOUGH MONEY.

13% WENT TO DEFENSE IN THE EISENHOWER ADMINISTRATION.

WHICH IS ONE YOU WON'T REMEMBER IT BUT I DO.

IT WAS THOUGHT OF AS CHEAP ON NATIONAL DEFENSE.

WE NOW SPEND 3.2% OF U.S. GDP ON DEFENSE AND WE ACT LIKE IT IS AN INTOLERABLE BURDEN.

IT'S ACTUALLY NOT.

YOU COULD EASILY DOUBLE DEFENSE SPENDING AND IT WOULDN'T BE AN INTOLERABLE BURDEN.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT WHEREAS ENTITLEMENT SPENDING WAS 19% OF THE BUDGET IN 970, IT'S NOW 63%.

SO ALL DISCRETIONARY SPENDING, WHETHER FOR EDUCATION OR DEFENSE, IS BEING CROWDED OUT BY ENTITLEMENTS.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM WE NEED TO FIX TO FREE UP DISCRETIONARY SPENDING FOR OUR OTHERS.

>> YOU DID TALK ABOUT ENTITLEMENT SPENDING AND A FEW REPUBLICANS HAVE TAKEN THAT ON.

DO YOU MAINLY MEAN THAT WE SHOULD CUT SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE AND MEDICAID?

>> YES, I DO.

AND I THINK WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE.

THEY DID IT IN THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION.

AND THE OWN ADMINISTRATION COMMISSIONED WORK.

THE SIMPSON BOWLS COMMISSION THAT CAME UP WITH VERY SOLID RECOMMENDATIONS.

THE KEY WITH CHANGES TO ENTITLEMENT SPENDING IS TO PERK THEM IN SLOWLY YOU SO PEOPLE CAN MAKE RETIREMENT DECISIONS AND HEALTH CARE DECISIONS CONSISTENT WITH AVAILABLE RESOURCES.

AND IF WE DON'T DO IT SOON, I MAY NOT, INTEREST ON THE FEDERAL DEBT IS GOING TO SURPASS DEFENSE SPENDING IN THE NEXT THREE YEARS.

AND IT WILL BECOME UNSUSTAINABLE TO PAY FOR THE ENTITLEMENTS WE HAVE PROMISED AMERICANS.

SO DEFENSE OR NONDEFENSE, WE NEED TO DO THIS TO KEEP OUR PROMISE TO FELLOW AMERICANS.

>> YOU WROTE A BACK A WH, YOU WE A BOOK.

DO YOU THINK AND DO YOU WORRY ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE ERA OF AMERICAN HEGEMONY MIGHT BE WANING?

>> I DO WORRY ABOUT IT.

BUT I PROBABLY WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT IT.

I THINK EVERY GOOD STRATEGIST IS FUNDAMENTALLY A DESPERATE PARANOID PERSON.

SO I WORRY A LOT ABOUT IT.

THE, I DON'T WORRY ABOUT CHINA OVERTAKING THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE I THINK YOU CAN FEEL THE GEARS MESHING OF PERSON SOCIETY AND AMERICAN GOVERNMENT POLICY ACKNOWLEDGING THE RISKS THAT A CHINA THAT IS REPRESSIVE AT HOME AND AGGRESSIVE INTERNATIONALLY POSE FOR US.

BUT WE ARE PREPARING FOR THE PROBLEMS OF A STAMPEDINGLY SUCCESSFUL CHINA.

AND THAT'S NO LONGER THE CHINA WE ARE DEALING WITH.

WE ARE LOOKING AT A CHINA MAROONED IN THE MIDDLE INCOME AND UNABLE TO MAKE THE POLITICAL CHOICES AND ECONOMIC CHOICES THAT WILL RESTORE VITALITY.

WHAT I WORRY ABOUT AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY, AND HERE I AGREE WITH MANY ASPECTS OF BIDEN ADMINISTRATION POLICY, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR THE UNITED STATES TO FAIL, WE WILL FAIL BECAUSE OF OUR OWN KOISS.

NOT BECAUSE OF OTHER CHOICES.

ALLOWING DEMOCRACY TO BECOME LESS INSTITUTIONALIZED AND LESS RESPECTED IN THE UNITED STATES.

ALLOWING PEOPLE WHO ARE HOSTILE TO THE TRANSITION OF POWER FROM THEIR HANDS TO ECONOMIC POLICIES AND SECONDARY SANCTIONS BECOMING SO THAT THEY INFRINGE ON THE CENTRALITY OF THE DOLLAR AS A MAJOR HOLDING CURRENCY.

WE MAKE A LOT OF MISTAKES IN AMERICAN POLICY, DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL.

OUR SAVING GRACE IS THAT WE ALSO ARE PRETTY GOOD AT MIXING OUR PROBLEMS.

AND THAT'S ULTIMATELY WHERE MY HOPE FOR THE SUSTAINMENT OF AN AMERICAN INTERNATIONAL ORDER, WHICH AFTER ALL, IS NOT ONLY BENEFICIAL TO THE UNITED STATES.

IT'S NOT ONLY BENEFICIAL TO OUR FRIENDS.

IT IS THE BEST POWER STRUCTURE FOR SMALL AND MIDDLE-SIZE STATES BECAUSE WE LIMIT OUR POWER IN INSTITUTIONS.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> FINALLY, FREEDOM FIGHTER, ANTIAPARTHEID ICON AND LEADER.

A DECADE AFTER HIS DEATH WE LOOK AT THE LEGACY OF NELSON MANDELA.

WHILE MOST REMEMBER HIM AS A SYMBOL FOR JUSTICE AND EQUALITY, HIS WIDOW ALSO REMEMBERS A DEVOTED HUSBAND, FATHER AND GRANDFATHER.

IN 2018, CHRISTE ASKED ABOUT MEETING HIM LATER IN LIFE AND WHY SHE FELT IT WAS THE BEST TIME OF HIS LIFE.

>> WE WERE BOTH MATURE.

SO LOVE FOR US, IT WAS NOT ONLY TO SAY, OH, YOUR BEAUTIFUL EYES.

IT WAS LOOKING DEEP INTO THE SOUL OF THE PERSON THAT YOU HAVE.

AND BECAUSE OF THAT, OUR CONNECTION WAS REALLY VERY, VERY DEEP.

SECOND, HE HAD GONE THROUGH ALL KIND OF, YOU KNOW, SACRIFICES IN LIFE.

AND HE HAD ALMOST COMPLETING HIS TERM AS HEAD OF STATE.

FOR THE FIRST TIME HE WAS GOING TO HAVE TIME FOR HIMSELF AND TIME FOR FAMILY AND EVEN TIME TO ENJOY THE COMPANY OF HIS WIFE.

I DON'T WANT TO GO BACK AND SAY THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH HIS FIRST MARRIAGE WAS, BUT THE REALITY WAS THEY WERE VERY TURBULENT YEARS FOR THEM.

THE TIME WITH FAMILY WAS VERY, VERY SHORT.

SO IN REALITY, HE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO ENJOY THE NORMALCY OF A FAMILY IS WHEN HE MARRIED ME.

SO IT WAS THE BEST FOR ME BECAUSE BOTH IN TERMS OF HIS SOUL TO BE AT PEACE WITH HIMSELF OVER HAVING DELIVERED THE BEST HE COULD TO HIS OWN PEOPLE.

HE COULD BE AT PEACE WITHIN HIMSELF.

AT THE SAME TIME, HE COULD HAVE A FAMILY.

I GAVE HIM THE OPPORTUNITY OF HAVING UNDER HIS ROOF HIS CHILDREN, GRANDCHILDREN, AND GREAT GRANDCHILDREN.

AND THIS HAS GIVEN HIM A LOT OF JOY.

BECAUSE HE, DURING THE YEARS OF PRISON, HE WANTED TO HAVE A FAMILY.

AND FOR THE FIRST TIME, HE COULD HAVE THIS.

SO IT WAS THE BEST OF TIMES BECAUSE HIS SPIRIT WAS AT PEACE WITH HIMSELF.

HIS SOUL COULD CONNECT IN SUCH A DEEP WITH ANOTHER SOUL.

HE COULD HAVE REALLY THE OPPORTUNITY OF BEING THE HEAD OF HIS FAMILY AND ENJOY TIME WITH HIS GRANDCHILDREN AND GREAT GRANDCHILDREN.

SO HE WAS A HAPPY MAN.

I MET HIM AT A TIME THAT HE COULD BE A HAPPY MAN.

THIS GIVES ME THE JOY THAT THIS MAN WE CELEBRATE IN ALL FORMS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, AT THE END OF HIS LIFE, I MADE HIM HAPPY.

>> THAT IS JUST BEAUTIFUL.

>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP ON THE SHOW EACH NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWS LETTER.

THANK YOU.

SO FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR & CO." ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME.

>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

SETON MELVIN.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.