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[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi, I'm Steve Adubato.

Welcome to a compelling, important half-hour, in which we interview the Republican candidate for Governor in the great state of New Jersey, former State Assemblyman, Jack Ciattarelli.

Assemblyman, how are you?

- Very well, Steve, great to be with you.

And it is indeed a great state.

- Sure is.

And by the way, second half-hour that we taped with the 56th Governor of New Jersey, Phil Murphy, you can check that out as well.

This is on the issues, on the merits, on the things that matter to voters for the November 2nd election.

Jump right into- let's jump right into this, Assemblyman.

You have an ad, and I asked the governor about this as well, I believe it says, "If you're a one-issue voter, and taxes are your issue, New Jersey is not the state for you," I may have that wrong, but that's the gist of it.

What is the message you are trying to send there?

- Very simple, Steve, anyone from New Jersey, anyone that understood New Jersey, anyone that was in touch, not out of touch with New Jerseyans, would never say that.

Everyone knows we're the highest taxed people in the nation.

And we think Phil Murphy got a pass four years ago, but he's been in office now for four years, nearly.

And we're gonna remind people who he is, someone who thinks, if taxes are your issue, we're probably not your state.

He's basically telling you to leave.

- You know, I asked the governor, and we spent a lot of time- and by the way, neither candidates saw the other person's- the other candidate's interview, but I'm gonna put this out there, and it's no surprise to anyone.

I asked the governor extensively about his leadership during COVID.

You've been incredibly critical of the governor as it relates to his leadership regarding COVID.

But here's the question: What exactly would you have done, would you do differently?

- A couple of things, Steve, the very first deaths in this country took place in Washington state, and in Washington state, they took place in the nursing home.

From the very beginning, we knew who the most vulnerable were.

And yet Phil Murphy ordered nursing homes to take in COVID-19 patients.

You even have a tape recording out there, acquired through an OPRA request, of operators telling the governor, "You do realize if we do this, people are gonna die?"

And then making matters worse, the governor never treated nursing homes as he did hospitals, he didn't get them PPEs, personal protective equipment.

Didn't get them test kits.

And just making matters worse, that's the reason why New Jersey leads the nation in nursing home deaths; more than 8,000.

So that's certainly something I would have done different.

Listen Steve, I'm not saying- - the pandemic was easy- - Jack, before you move on to something else, the governor made it clear, that the Department of Health, and other state agencies that regulate the nursing homes, they pressed them on whether they would separate those patients, which he said, by the way, "They're not just patients, that was their home.

They were in a nursing home."

He said they committed that they were doing those things.

The nursing homes did not do those things.

- Steve, if that were the case, then why did he grant them legal immunity?

Families can't even seek justice.

He granted them legal immunity because he asked them to do the impossible.

And if you talked to nursing home operators, that's exactly how they feel about the situation.

- Go on to another issue, as it relates to COVID, that you- let's deal with the business community.

The shutdowns, the restrictions, the governor has argued, and many agree with him, Assemblyman, that they were the right thing to do, as it relates to public health being our highest priority.

Somehow you seem to be saying that you would not have done those things.

Why not, A, and B, how would that protect the public health, particularly during the height of this pandemic?

- Now let me be clear, Steve, as Governor, I will always promote, preserve, and protect the public health.

What infuriated a great many New Jerseyans were the inconsistencies in the executive orders during the lockdown.

If you owned a jewelry store, Steve, on Main Street, he shut you down.

He said you were non-essential, even though that's how you paid all your bills.

But yet the jewelry counter at Costco was open.

If you sold bikes, if you had a bike shop, you weren't allowed to sell bikes, but Walmart was allowed to sell bikes.

It was those kinds of inconsistencies.

And the result has been that one out of three small businesses in New Jersey, mom-and-pop shops that were in families for decades, have closed their doors forever.

And so here we are today.

So yes, we need to save lives, and I'm not suggesting- - But what would you do differently?

I'm sorry for interrupting, Jack, what would you do differently?

That's the thing.

Because he was in that seat, he had to make those tough decisions.

If you were there, are you saying you would not have shut any of those businesses down?

You would not have had those restrictions?

What would be different?

- What would be different is there would be consistency in my executive orders, and there was no consistency in these executive orders.

I would never have forced nursing homes to take in COVID-19 patients.

And I would've given small businesses an equal opportunity to survive as he did big businesses.

People looking for consistency in the executive order, Steve, and they're just- there are a whole lot of inconsistencies and that's what infuriated people.

- You know, speaking of consistencies, I wanna follow up on something.

You've often said that Donald Trump is not running for governor, you are running for governor.

But consistency.

In December of 2015, you had said about Donald Trump, "Donald Trump preys on the worst instincts and fears of people.

I do not believe that Donald Trump is fit to be President."

If I'm not mistaken, did you vote for Donald Trump in 2020?

- I did vote for Donald Trump in 2020, but Steve, I remember correctly from the Democratic Presidential Primaries, Kamala Harris had a lot of things to say about Joe Biden, and today he's- she's his Vice President.

So we know how politics works.

But the President's policies worked for the nation, and let it- - Did they work for New Jersey?

- Let's give Donald Trump credit for Warp Speed, which brought the vaccine to America.

You'll never hear Phil Murphy ever give the President credit for Warp Speed- Project Warp Speed, and producing the vaccine, which the governor touts.

And I'm vaccinated, I promoted my vaccination, and I encourage people to get vaccinated.

- So I want to be clear.

You believe that Donald Trump's policies- and the only reason we're talking about Donald Trump is not about politics, but about issues.

Do you believe that Donald Trump stopping the Gateway Tunnel from being built as good for New Jersey?

And the follow-up to that is, do you believe that Donald Trump, who in fact supported the limitation, the cap on state and local tax deductions at $10,000, which is devastating in a state like New Jersey, with such high taxes, those two policies, those are two policies, Assemblyman, that you believe that Donald Trump did that, were good for New Jersey?

- Steve, what I said is his policies worked for the nation.

As someone who wants to be governor, my job is to advocate for the people in New Jersey.

And I publicly disagreed with Donald Trump on his desire to do offshore drilling.

We're not gonna have offshore drilling off of our Jersey shore.

His lack of support for the Gateway Project, and his elimination of the SALT deduction, those are three things that I would advocate fervently for here in New Jersey.

And I disagreed with Donald Trump on those things.

I said that his policies work for the nation, but he had three positions that didn't work for New Jersey.

- You know, there are a whole range of social media questions, by the way I wanna thank everyone who contributed a question to the Assemblyman, to the governor, a whole range of issues that are important.

Governor- excuse me, my Freudian-slip, Assemblyman.

- I love your spirit, there, Steve.

- Freudian slip.

So, Assemblyman, let me ask you this, a whole range of questions that are coming in about you, asking this: What exactly is your position as it relates to gun violence?

More specifically, what would you change about new Jersey's gun laws?

Which are perceived to be the toughest, some of the toughest in the nation.

- Let me tell you, first thing I would do is change the Attorney General.

This Attorney General, with the support of this governor, has disarmed, and handcuffed, and demoralized our police.

And that's why we see crime up around the state.

I mean, Steve, you've been a lifelong New Jerseyan, when are we ever had flash mobs along our Jersey shore?

When have we ever had curfews along our Jersey shore?

And a lot of it has to do with all this anti-police rhetoric.

The job for the men and women in blue has never been harder.

And I promised the people of New Jersey, that I, and my Attorney General, will back the men and women in blue.

And as I said before, I'm always gonna protect, preserve, and promote the public health and safety.

And so we'll always strike the right balance, the right balance between people's second amendment rights, and keeping our community safe.

- What about the balance between supporting our police, and also acknowledging that a disproportionate number of people of color have been targeted by specific police officers?

George Floyd, that horrific murder on camera, speaks for itself.

What would you say to the Black and Brown community in New Jersey, as it relates to your support for police, but balancing that, with the fact that, clearly police reform needs to take place?

- We need reform in that we- it needs to be easier to get rid of a bad cop.

And under Governor Ciattarelli, we'll have that.

We're not gonna tolerate having bad cops on the local PD, or in the State Police, or in County Police.

So- but I feel the same way about bad teachers, the way I feel about bad CPAs; we can't let people continue in these kinds of positions.

And we certainly won't have bad cops on the force under Governor Ciattarelli.

- The assemblyman refers to himself because he is a CPA by background, I should have said that, I apologize, Jack.

School reform, school funding reform, you've been very specific about it.

Give me a minute or less on that.

- Listen, we need a new school funding formula, Steve, the current formula is 13 years old.

It's nefarious, it's arbitrary.

It's the reason why the owner of a million-dollar home in Jersey City and Hoboken pays less in property taxes than a $400,000 home in Toms River, or my hometown of Hillsborough, or Parsippany.

We need to redefine local fair-share.

We need to make sure there's not disparity in the quality of special needs education.

As you go from one district to the next, we need a new school funding formula.

The Democrats will always say, including Phil Murphy, "We just need to fully fund the current formula."

Why would we fully fund a flawed formula?

It was given to us by John Corzine, it's 13 years old, it's nefarious, it's arbitrary, it's unfair.

Under Governor Ciattarelli, we'll have a flatter, more equitable distribution of state aid for schools, without leaving any child behind, any community behind, and without adversely affecting the quality of our K through 12 education.

- Some of them many questions came in regarding Ida, Hurricane Ida, and its connection, to not only the infrastructure in New Jersey, the flooding in New Jersey, the protecting of people in property, in New Jersey, the loss of life, the tragic loss of life.

A, I'm gonna ask you about climate control, but B, did you actually criticize Governor Murphy, as it related- relates to Ida?

- His handling of the storm begs the question, Steve, what is it the Pennsylvania Governor had at his disposal that our Governor did not.

The reason I ask that question is because our Declaration of Emergency by Governor Murphy came 13 hours after the Pennsylvania Governor's Declaration.

Murphy's declaration came four hours after the tornado, three hours after the flash flood.

If ever there was a time for a, "get the hell off the beach moment," this was it.

Instead what we have are 30 fewer New Jerseyans amongst us today because of tropical storm Ida.

- But because of the storm.

- A Declaration of Emergency, Steve, as you know, increases urgency and seriousness.

Ours came 13 hours after the Pennsylvania Governor's, four hours after the tornado, and three hours after the flash flood.

It does beg the question: What did the Pennsylvania Governor know that our Governor didn't?

- Yeah, again, the other part of this, Jack- I apologize, if anyone's offended that I'm calling you Assemblyman Jack.

Assemblyman, let me ask you in the minute we have left, before we go to this break.

The connection to climate change- is climate change very real in your mind?

- Climate change is real, and it's accelerated by human activity.

We need a national energy policy that galvanizes our citizens, and gets all 50 states on the same page.

We're not gonna be able to solve global warming one little state at a time.

- This is former State Assemblyman, Jack Ciattarelli, he is a CPA by background.

He is seeking to be the next governor in the state of New Jersey, I'm Steve Adubato.

This is a substantive, issue-oriented discussion.

The election, is in fact, on November the 2nd.

And we'll be right back right after this.

- [Voiceover] To watch more "State of Affairs" with Steve Adubato, find us online, and follow us on social media.

- Steve Adubato here.

A former State Assemblyman, Jack Ciattarelli, running for Governor in New Jersey.

Assemblyman, help us on this.

It's an issue because- our democracy is at stake.

And January 6, spoke for itself, the insurrection that took place on the steps of the Capitol.

Election security, people trusting in the election process, critically important.

When you attended, a quote-unquote, stop the steal of the election rally, in which there were Confederate flags, and which "stop the steal" was all over the place, of signs.

You have said that you didn't know that that was a "stop the steal" rally.

Help us understand that, 'cause it was advertised as such.

- Not to me, it was- Steve, I was contacted personally the day before by the organizer of the event.

And he told me it was a rally focused on 2021, The Governor's Race, and all 120 seats in the State Legislature.

And I have to tell you when I got there, I didn't see Confederate flags, I didn't see "stop the steal" signs.

And- but at the same time, Steve, I'm not gonna be held responsible for what people wear, or signs that people hold up.

I've heard that governor Murphy's attended rallies where people held up signs that said, "no justice, no peace."

I've never held him responsible for that.

If it was advertised to me as a "stop the steal" rally, I would not have attended.

Joe Biden is our President, and I've said that from the very beginning.

- Real quick on this, you didn't exactly say that at the very beginning, you said it on January 20th, you put out a social media post that said, "Congratulations to the President," but you did not say it- unless I have this wrong, and I could, at any date before he was inaugurated.

Did you believe, in fact, that he was the legally-elected President of the United States after that election?

- I did, Steve, and whoever asked me, I told him so, the congratulation's on that day, it's 'cause it was the day of the inauguration.

- Final comment from you about the January 6.

Folks who participated in the insurrection.

Many of whom, I believe, President Trump and some others believe, are Patriots and good Americans.

What would you say about those people to everyone else?

- A very, very sad day in our nation's history.

And I do believe that the president's rhetoric on that day, as that of Rudy Giuliani, and Sidney Powell, and L. Lin Wood, all contributed to that riot.

And anyone who broke the law that day should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

- So let's bring it back to New Jersey.

There's so many issues that matter.

One of them is this one.

See, people would often say, "Well, what's going on in Texas regarding abortion is not related to New Jersey."

But that case may go before the Supreme Court, the law in Texas, that dramatically changes Roe vs. Wade, who knows what it could mean for the nation?

What do you believe it should mean?

Not just for the nation, but for New Jersey, Assemblyman.

- I've been very clear all throughout my career and life, Steve, I've never advocated for overturning Roe V. Wade.

I've always been A-OK with a woman having a right to choose.

I believe what we see in Texas is a form of extremism, just as what we see from Phil Murphy is a form of extremism.

He continues to advocate for a law that the legislative leaders refuse to post, because they know it's a bad law.

It's a law that would allow abortion in months, seven, eight, and nine, right up to the day of delivery, as performed by somebody other than an MD.

If that's not extremism, I don't know what is.

So I do not support the Texas law, but I certainly don't support what Phil Murphy supports.

I believe my position on abortion is right where a majority of New Jerseyans is.

- Real quick, two more things on this.

Number one, you also support the elimination, if I'm not mistaken, of Planned Parenthood.

- A great many women, Steve, depend on Planned Parenthood for women's health.

And I support that.

What I've said all along is I do not support the use of taxpayer dollars for abortions.

And if we're gonna send money to Planned Parenthood, for all the women that depend on it for women's health, we should also send money to all the pregnancy resources centers out there, that women depend on for women's health.

It's just that those places don't advocate for abortion.

What's fair is fair.

- For those in New Jersey who are still struggling- you know what, I had a healthcare question, but I'm gonna get to that in a second.

I want to ask you about childcare, because childcare- and I said this to the governor in my interview with him, we're doing a series called Re-imagined Childcare, and tries to connect the childcare crisis to the fact that there aren't enough workers there, the fact that they're not getting paid enough, which means there aren't enough kids that are in childcare.

Impacts the economy, which is obviously a top issue for you.

What would you do, if governor, to significantly improve the childcare situation in the state, which directly affects people's ability to work and feed their families?

- We need to make sure that there's adequate childcare services, and that people below a certain income level, get a tax break for childcare services, which can be very expensive.

But speaking of three- and four-year-olds, we've got a governor that's advocating for universal pre-K as part of our public school system.

- That's a bad idea?

- Well, here's what's a bad idea; not partnering.

What we should do is partner with the private sector to do that, because when he makes it part of the public school system, he's gonna put thousands of private business owners out of business.

Women own private pre-K's more than any other business in this state.

And he's gonna put them all out of business by making it part of the public school system.

I would support a voucher program, where people can take their child, and the voucher, to a private pre-K. Let's stop putting people out of business, particularly women.

- Follow up on the healthcare question.

There are still countless New Jerseyans who are without appropriate, affordable, accessible healthcare.

In spite of Obamacare, the Affordable Care Act.

What would you say to those New Jerseyans about a Ciattarelli governorship, and what it would, and could do, to help them?

- And I'm committed to making sure that everyone has access to high quality care.

And I've got ideas, if I can work in partnership with the federal government, with the help of our congressional delegation, to use some of our Medicaid dollars in the form of community block grants, to have clinics available in all communities across the state, where people don't have access to high-quality care.

And I'm not just talking about primary care preventive clinics, I'm talking about multi-specialty clinics, so people can get easy access to the specialists they may need, if their chronic disease is very, very bad, and threatening to their overall health.

We got more work to do in this area, and we need to do it.

- Assemblyman, when I asked the governor about- and I'll ask you the same question, "Why not Governor Murphy, and why you?"

But when I ask, "Why not Jack Ciattarelli," he just simply- he kept using the word extremism, you're extreme.

And I just want to ask you about this.

'Cause obviously you don't see yourself that way.

This was on the question of- and I believe you were at a Flemington gun range, in which you were quoted as saying, and again, if the quote is wrong, or out of context, you'll tell me.

"We're not going to teach gender identification, sexual orientation to our kindergartners.

We're not going to teach sodomy to 6th graders.

We're gonna roll back the LGBTQ curriculum."

Is that accurate?

- The quote is accurate, Steve.

I feel very, very strongly that there's certain subject matter that is best left for the kitchen table, between Mom and Dad, and their kids.

And the question we really need to ask Phil Murphy is, "Do you support gender ID and sexual orientation being taught to kindergartners?

Do you support explicit sex acts being taught to the students in grade school?"

And with regard to the LGBTQ curriculum, I think we should teach what my mother and father taught me; love and respect everyone, no matter how different they may be, everyone deserves mutual respect.

Why can't we just teach our kids The Golden Rule, "Do unto others, as you would have others do unto you"?

They've gone too far.

And we need to get back to teaching basic life skills in our schools, and not asking our schools, or our teachers, to replace parents.

- I just want to be clear on something.

A lot of folks may agree with what you just said about The Golden Rule, and what our mom- or mother and father, if you're, in fact, in a two-family household, if you're fortunate enough to be.

But the education has changed, society has changed.

They change- people are, quote, out there, being who they are, and what they are.

And so therefore, some may argue that education has to respond accordingly.

You say?

- I say that bigotry and bullying is immoral.

Mutual respect and tolerance are necessities that we need to carry with us, all through our life as virtues.

And if we stick to The Golden Rule, I think that we can leave the rest to Mom and Dad, again, let's keep it simple, okay?

"Do unto others, as you would have others do unto you."

I think achieves all the objectives that we need to achieve in our school system, and getting back to the basics of teaching life skills.

- Assemblyman, you ran an ad featuring Katie Brennan, a former staff person in a campaign, 2017 campaign, for Governor Murphy.

And her case is very well known.

And she said that she was sexually assaulted in the campaign.

There were hearings, investigations, I asked the governor about it, he spoke for himself.

You should watch that.

But why did you run an ad, featuring her saying what she did, A, and B, she said she wasn't consulted about that.

- Steve, she came forward to tell her story.

And the reason she did is because she was ignored, personally, by Phil Murphy and his administration.

Her alleged rapist was hired to a very high-paying job in a high-up position in the Murphy administration.

We used her testimony that she voluntarily provided, at investigational hearings, after going directly to the paper.

Again, Steve, I do think the governor got a free pass four years ago.

His record on women is pretty poor.

I'll go as far as to say that he's the most anti-woman governor we've ever had.

Ask Katie Brennan, ask the women that worked on his campaign, ask the women that played on his professional soccer team, ask the women inmates at Edna Mahan Prison.

So I think his record and his position on women needs to be known.

- A few seconds left, why you, and not the governor this time?

- Ciattarellis have been here for 100 years, Steve.

My parents owned a restaurant bar, they raised their four children here, and Melinda and I have raised our four children here.

I started two businesses here, employed fellow New Jerseyans.

I understand New Jersey, I get it, I know what we need to do to fix it.

And I'm not somebody that's looking to go to Washington.

I don't want to be a US Senator, I don't want to be President, don't want to write a book.

I just want to fix New Jersey, and I've got very specific ideas on how to do that.

- Jack Ciattarelli, I want to thank you so much for joining us, we appreciate you being here, directly responding to every question, thank you, Jack.

- Thank you, Steve.

- Final message to everyone.

I said this in the last program with the governor, I'll say it here.

November 2nd is that election.

Our job is to put the issues out there, have the candidates respond.

We appreciate the Assemblyman being so direct in his responses.

That being said, the rest is up to you.

The election's on the 2nd, learn who the candidates are, what the issues are, because the last time I checked, I know some people are tired of me saying this, democracy is not a spectator sport.

So get yourself engaged and involved, and vote on November the 2nd.

Once again, thank you, Assemblyman, we appreciate your time.

- Looking forward to next time, Steve, thank you.

- You got it, I'm Steve Adubato.

Thank you so much for watching us.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato Is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by Hackensack Meridian Health.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

Operating Engineers, local 825.

Summit Health New Jersey Institute of Technology.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

NJM Insurance Group.

The New Jersey Education Association.

Eastern Atlantic States Regional Council of Carpenters.

And by these public spirited organizations, individuals and associations committed to informing New Jersey citizens about the important issues facing the Garden State.

And by Employers Association of New Jersey.

Promotional support provided by CIANJ, and Commerce Magazine.

ROI-NJ, And by Insider NJ.