>>> SOCIAL MORES HAVE CHANGED DRAMATICALLY SINCE THE DAYS WHEN THE HINT OF PAST MARIJUANA USE COULD UP END A POLITICAL CAMPAIGN.

NOW MANY OFFICE HOLDERS AND CANDIDATES RAIDLY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY HAVE ENHAILED AND A GROWING NUMBER OF POLICY MAKERS, DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICANS ALIKE SUPPORT THE ELIMINATION OR AT LEAST MODIFICATION AGAINST THE PROHIBITIONS AGAINST THE USE OF CAN BUSINESS.

HI I'M JON SCHWANTES AND ON THE SHOW WE'LL EXPLORE THE SHIFT IN ATTITUDE MIGHT MEAN FOR THE NO EXCEPTIONS BAN ON POT.

SPOILER ALERT THE ANSWER APPEARS TO BE NOT MUCH.

INDIANA LAWMAKERS FROM THE STATEHOUSE TO YOUR HOUSE.

>>> LAST WEEK FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE STATE'S HISTORY A LEGISLATED OF COMMITTEE HEARD TESTIMONY ON A MEASURE TO DECRIMINAL ICE THE POSSESSION OF SMALL AMOUNTS OF CAP CANNABIS.

HOW THE HOUSE BILL WHICH WOULD REMOVE PENALTIES DREW SUPPORT FROM A VARIETY OF GROUPS INCLUDING AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY U THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION AND THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PHYSICIANS.

AND THE END THOUGH THE COMMITTEE'S SHARE SAID SHE WOULD NOT CALL FOR A VOTE THIS SESSION.

WAS THE HEARING A SIGN OF MOVEMENT TOWARD MARIJUANA REFORM OR MORE EVIDENCE OF THE DURABILITY OF INDIANA'S CURRENT BAN?

JOINING ME TO DISCUSS THE ISSUE ARE REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE HEATH VAN NATTER OF KOKOMO, BROCK PATTERSON, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL FOR THE INDIANA PROSECUTOR ATTORNEY'S COUNCIL AND JUSTIN SWANSON PRESIDENT OF THE MID WEST HEMP COUNCIL.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

HEATH VAN NATTER, LET'S START HERE, I MENTIONED WHAT'S IN THE BILL BUT IS THERE ANY OTHER NUANCE THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO CONVEY THAT HOOSIERS NEED TO KNOW ABOUT?

>> IT'S ACTUALLY SIMPLE.

DECRIMINALIZE TWO OUNCES OF OR LESS OF MARIJUANA IF YOU'RE 21 AND OVER.

>> AND WHY?

YOU'RE NOT A NEWCOMER TO THIS.

YOU'VE INTRODUCED THIS WHAT, FOUR OR FIVE TIMES.

>> THIS IS MY 50 YEAR IN ROW.

>> BUT 12 YEARS AGO YOU HAD A DIFFERENT VIEW, TELL ME ABOUT THAT TRANSFORMATION.

>> I DID, I WAS APPOSESSED LIKE MANY HOOSIERS WERE AT THAT TIME, BUT OVER THE YEARS I'VE JUST SEEN INSTANCES, I'VE SEEN WHO OTHER STATES HAVE DONE, I'VE HEARD FROM A LOT OF VETERANS HOW REALLY BENEFIT THEM.

PUBLIC PERCEPTION IS CHANGING AND I THINK LEGISLATORS ARE FOLLOWING SUIT.

>> DO YOU HEAR -- WHERE WOULD YOU PUT THIS THIS TERMS OF THE PECKING ORDER FOR YOUR CONSTITUENTS?

IS THE PHONE RINGING?

ARE YOUR MAILBOXES FULL?

>> I GET REGULAR COMMUNICATION, I GET E-MAILS ASKING ME TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE CANNABIS REFORM AND A LOT OF PHONE CALLS, E-MAILS.

>> BROCK PATTERN SON, WE'VE SEEN THE POLL NUMBERS AND WE CAN -- DEPENDING ON HOW THE POLL IS CONSTRUCTED AND IT GETS ANYWHERE -- SHOWS SUPPORT AMONG HOOSIERS FOR SOME SORT OF RELAX RELAXATION OF CURRENT POLICY AND GRANTED THAT COULD TAKE MANY FORMS, FROM 60 TO 805 PERCENT -- WHICH I'M NOT SURE 85 PERCENT OF HOOSIERS AGREE ON ANYTHING SO PROBABLY CLOSER TO THE MIDDLE RANGE.

DOES THAT MATTER TO YOU WHAT HOODSERS THINK THEY WANT OR WHAT IS POPULAR?

>> I THINK IT'S A DIFFICULT SUBJECT, OBVIOUSLY THE PUBLIC OPINION IS CHANGING, BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVE TO -- OUR ROLE AS PROSECUTORS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PUBLIC IS SAFE AND PROTECTED FROM YOUNG, WHETHER IT'S OTHER DRIVERS THAT ARE IMPAIRED OR YOU KNOW, IF IT'S LARGE SCALE DEALERS OR WHATEVER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE OUR OPINION HASN'T CHANGED BECAUSE WE HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH OTHER STATES THAT HAVE BEEN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS AND WHILE THERE'S A GOOD OUTSIDE LOOKING IN PUBLIC VIEW OF WHAT COULD WE SEE IF WE MOVE TOWARDS A LEGALIZED MARK, YOU KNOW OUR COUNTERPARTS IN OTHER STATES ARE SAYING THAT IT'S OPENED THE DOOR TO SO MUCH MORE THAN WHAT WE EVER EXPECTED AND THAT'S OUR CONCERN, AND WHY WE HAVE SUCH HESITANCY TO MOVE FORWARD.

>> AND WE SHOULD SAY WHAT OUR NEIGHBORING STATES HAVE DONE, IF YOU LOOK A ILLINOIS AND MICHIGAN BOTH HAVE NOW CLEARED THE DOOR DOOR TO RECREATIONAL MARIJUANA, AND THEN YOU HAVE OHIO AND KENTUCKY THAT HAVE OPENED THE DOOR TO MEDICINAL OR PRESCRIPTION MEDICATION, I GUESS IN ONE CASE IT WAS THROUGH THE BALLOT BOX AND ANOTHER CASE IT WAS THROUGH EXECUTIVE ORDER SO SUBJECT TO CHANGING ADMINISTRATIONS I SUPPOSE, PUT.

BUT COUNTER THE ARGUMENT THAT THIS IS A CONCERN FOR PUBLIC SAFETY.

>> I THINK REALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DATA IT'S SHOWING THAT THE MOST DANGEROUS THING ABOUT CANNABIS RIGHT NOW IN INDIANA IS ITS ILLEGAL STATUS.

STATES THAT HAVE PROVIDED REGULATED MARKETS FOR THEIR CITIZENS FIND YOUNGER AGE AT FIRST USE BETWEEN 16 AND 20-YEAR-OLDS, YOU HAVE YOUNGER -- YOU HAVE LESS DRIVING WHILE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF CANNABIS IN THE PAST MONTH SO YOU'RE STARTING TO SEE EC A PUBLIC HEALTH -- >> IF IT'S LEGAL THERE IS LESS -- >> LESS OF ALL OF THAT AND PROBABLY A MUCH BETTER WAY TO SAY THAT THE TOP LINE MESSAGE IS WHATEVER YOUR HESITATIONS ARE WITH CANNABIS THOSE ARE MUCH ADDRESSED IN A REGULATEDDED MARKET.

INDIANA HAS A 2 BILLION-DOLLAR ILLICIT MARKET.

>> AND I SHOULD POINT OUT WE DID TRY TO GET SOMEONE FROM THE ADDICTION MEDICAL COMMUNITY, AND OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE DIFFERRERING OPINIONS THERE.

IT'S NOT MONOLITHIC, BUT IF WHY LOOK AT THE -- I'LL MAKE SURE I GET THE SEX ABUSE AND MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES -- SUBJECTS ABUSE AND MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES ADMINISTRATION, I MEAN THEY SORT OF HAVE THIS -- IF YOU GO TO THEIR WEBSITE -- I WON'T SAY IT'S AS SHRILL A WARNING AS REEFER MADNESS FROM THE TEMPLE BUT TALKS ABOUT THE HIGH ADDICTION RATES, ONE THIS TEN FOR INSTANCE INDIVIDUALS WILL BECOME ADDICTED TO MARIJUANA, THAT THERE ARE CONCERNS AROUND EARLY USE, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY I GUESS AT A YOUNG AGE MUSE USES THAT LIKELIHOOD OF ADDICTION GOES HIGHER.

SHOULD WE PUT ANY CREDENCE IN THE FEDERAL NUMBERS?

>> I THINK BROCK KNOW THIS WELL, YOU CAN FIND PRETTY MUCH ANY STUDY OUT THERE THERE TO SAY WHATEVER YOU WANTED IT TO SY.

BUT THE RATE IS WE'RE ONE OF 12 STATES THAT DON'T PROVIDE A REGULATED MARKET FOR THEIR CITIZEN ASKS YOU DON'T SEE ANY STATE GOING BACKWARDS.

THEY'RE ONLY EXPANDING THE PROGRAMS AND THAT'S REALLY TO MEET ONE THING AND THAT'S TO MEET CONSUMER DEMAND.

I WOULD ARGUE NO STATE IN THE COUNTRY HAS GOTTEN THIS RIGHT YET MEANING THEY'RE NOT MEETING CONSUMER DEMAND SO ALL YOU'RE DOING IS INCENTIVIZING CAN EMPOWERING THE ILLICIT MARKET.

CALIFORNIA IS WAY OVERTAXED AND HALF THEIR MARKET IS THE ILLICIT MARKET SO IT MATTERS HOW YOU SET UP THIS PROGRAM.

INDIANA HAS ABAN OPPORTUNITY TO BE THE FIRST STATE IN THE COUNTRY TO SET UP A PROGRAM NOT BASED OUT OF FEAR OR REVENUE BUT FOCUSING ON HOW BEST TO SET UP THE PROGRAM THAT'S GOING TO UNBURDEN OR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND UNBURDEN OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM WITH LOW PRIORITY CRIMES.

WE HAVE HAD A COUPLE OF COULD YOU REPEAT OF APPEALS OCCASIONS BECAUSE THE STATE IS ON RECORD SAYING THIS ISN'T WORTH OUR TIME OR RESOURCES TO HAVE THIS GREEN LEAFY SUBSTANCE TESTED FOR THE THC CONCENTRATION.

>>> YOU'VE RECOGNIZED THAT AS AN ISSUE THAT ARGUMENTS GOING THE OTHER TRANSACTION, THAT THE STATE'S LABS ARE NO SUFFICIENT TO TEST ALL OF THIS SO IT WOULD COMPOUND THE PROBLEM RATHER THAN'S IT.

IS THAT A IS IT FAIR ASSESSMENT OF YOUR ORGANIZATION'S VIEW?

>> I THINK OUR STATE LAB IS UNDER IF YOU REMEMBEREDDED AND IF HE WITH WANT TO TEST THESE THINGS AND WE'LL NEED TO WHETHER WE'RE IN A STATUS QUO OR A LEGAL MARKET, WHETHER THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THROUGH THE FARM ACT BACK IN BETWEEN AND 18 SAID WE'RE GOING TO DISTINGUISH THE CANNABIS PLANT BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF DELTA NINE THC IN IT IT CREATED A PROBLEM, BECAUSE NOW INSTEAD OF SAYING YEP THIS IS A CANNABIS PLANT WE HAVE TO SAY IT'S A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE TO QUALIFY RATHER THAN HEMP SO THAT'S CREATED A STRAIN ON OUR LAB TO SAY OKAY, NOW WE HAVE TO DISTINGUISH WHAT IS THIS PACK EXACTLY SO THAT'S WHERE THOSE CASES ARE COMING FROM -- >> WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THIS WERE ENACTED AND YOU LOOK AT DECRIMINALIZATION OF TWO OUNCES OF LESS?

WOULDN'T THAT BASICALLY SAY LAB YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THIS.

THIS MAY BE POT, IT MAY BE OREGANO.

>> REST SAY ON THE FLIP SIDE IT IS OVER TWO OUNCES, JUSTIN'S GROWERS AREN'T GROWING LESS THAN TWANGSES OF EVERYONE AND WE HAVE TO SEIZE THAT PRODUCT BUT BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH WITH A FARMER, IT THEN CREATES THAT QUESTION OF OKAY, WE STILL HAVE TO TEST THAT, SO WHETHER OR NOT YOU DECRIMINALIZE ONE ONCE, TEN OUNCES ASSIST A PROBLEM.

>> WEIGH ON THIS BOTH ON THIS TISSUE AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE, WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAYS ARE SOME ALARMING STATISTICS THAT PEOPLE SHOULD MAKE NOTE OF.

>> NO DOUBT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO ACT ON THIS.

THEY'VE DRUG THEIR FEET, DRUG THEIR FEET, THEY NEED TO MAKE IT NOT A SCHEDULE I DRUG.

YOU HEARD IN COMMITTEE LAST WEEK THE DOCTOR TESTIFY THIS IS NOT A HARD DRUG, SHOULDN'T BE A SCHEDULE I, SO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO ACTS.

>> SHOULD SAY GOVERNOR HOLCOMB SAID ESSENTIALLY THAT IS THE MAJOR HOLDUP FOR HIM IN TERMS OF SIGNING SOMETHING THAT IS IN VALID OR ILLEGAL UNDER FEDERAL LAW AND WITH THAT OBSTACLE REMOVED MAYBE OTHERS WOULD COME ALONG.

>> AND I THINK THE TESTING IS COMING AROUND, THIS OBVIOUSLY ISN'T GOING TO MOVE THIS YEAR SO WE HAVE MORE TIME TO WORK -- I'M HAPPY TO WORK WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT TO TRY TO COME TO A MIDDLE GROUND WHERE WE CAN ALL MAKE THIS WORK FOR THE 85 PERCENT OF HOOSIERS THAT WITHDRAW WANT IT.

>> AND IF IT'S NOT THIS YEAR, THERE WILL BE A SIXTH YEAR, MAYBE THAT CROP WILL BE RIPE OR WHAT NOT.

THAT'S PROBABLY THE WRONG METAPHOR.

WHAT ABOUT THIS NOTION THAT YOUR CLIENTS JUSTIN ARE NOT GOING TO -- THIS IS IMMATERIAL TO THEM, THIS NOTION OF TWO OUNCES OR MORE, I'M GUESSING THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN FARMING PROBABLY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN HAVING A SCALE ON THEIR ACREAGE AND SAYING THAT ONE OR TWO SEEDS WE PLANTED IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE IT.

HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THEIR INTERESTS WITH THIS BILL IS THIS.

>> LET'S BE CLEAR YOU HAVE TO BE PROPERLY LIFE-THREATENING INJURIESED BY THE STATE TO PLANT HEMP AND THE STATE HAS TO TEST THAT EVERYONE AND THEN YOU HAVE TO -- THERE'S REGULATIONS HOW YOU TRANSPORT THIS STUFF THROUGH THE STATE AND OUTSIDE THE STATE SO THE THING IS, FROM THE HEMP INDUSTRY'S PERSPECTIVE WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE MOST LUCRATIVE PART OF THE MARKET WHICH IS SELLING HEMP FLOWER RETAIL.

RIGHT NOW OUR FARMERS ARE LIMITED TO SELLING TO IN STATE PROCESSER.

IF I TOOK THAT SAME CROP AND SOLD IT TO A RETAILER THE MEDIAN PRICE IS $350 A POUND SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME CROP FROM OUR FARMERS AND WE'VE LIMITED THEIR MARKET TO THE ONE WHERE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE MONEY.

>> AND THE LABS TESTING THAT, IS THAT A SEPARATE LAB?

I GUESS THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN HOW THAT SET UP.

>> YEAH, WE ALREADY HAVE ONE REGISTERED HEMP TESTING LAB IN LEBANON, THEY DO A GREAT JOB AND THE REALITY IS WE LOOK AT THE DATA WHAT KIND OF SAMPLES GO TO OUR STATE CRIME LAB THE NUMBER TWO SUBSTANCE IS CANNABIS CAN I THINK THERE'S A SIX MORGUE BACKLOG, SO IF WE DO THIS RIGHT, AGAIN NOT CHASE REVENUE THIS IS HOW YOU UP BURDEN LAW ENFORCEMENT, OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM AND ALLOW THEM TO KIND OF MEET -- REPRIORITIZE THEIR LIMITED RESOURCES TO MATCH UP WITH THEIR COMMUNITY NEEDS.

>> AS WE LOOK AT THAT ISSUE, SOME PROSPECTORS IN SOME COUNTIES INCLUDING THE ONE WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW AS WE TAPE THIS HAVE MADE IT A POLICY NOT TO PROSECUTE POSSESSION OF SMALL AMOUNTS OF MARIJUANA, ONE OUNCE IN THE OCCASION OF THE MARION COUNTY PROSECUTOR AND HE'S GOTTEN SOME HEAT FOR THUMBING HIS NOSE AT THE WISHs OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

IF THAT'S ALREADY HAPPENING IN AN AD HOC MANNER, ISN'T THAT GOOD ENOUGH?

WHY DOES THIS HAVE TO BE DONE ON A SEDATE WIDE APPROACH, IF THE NOTION IS THE POPULAR DEMAND OR NEED COULDN'T IT BE HANDLED ON A COUNTY BY COUNTY BASIS IS THIS.

>> IT USUALLY DOESN'T WORK TO HAVE A PATCH WORK OF DIFFERENT LAWS, PEOPLE TRAVEL THROUGH DIFFERENT COUNTIES TO COME TO MARION COUNTY.

YOU DON'T WANT SOMEBODY TO COME TO TROUBLE -- BUT THINK IT SHOWS IT'S -- TEST TELLING THE LARGEST PROSECUTOR IN THE STATE OF INDIANA HAS BASICALLY DECRIMINAL ICED MARIJUANA IN THE LARGEST COUNTY.

>> HE'S BEEN ON THE SHOW TALKING ABOUT THIS, I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR HIM BUT HE WOULD PROBABLY SAY IT'S BECAUSE THERE'S LIMITED RESOURCES THAT HE WANTS TO DEAL WITH HOMICIDE AND SERIOUS CRIME AS OPPOSED TO THE WARM EMBRACE OF THE NOTION OF DRUG USE BUT EITHER WAY IT'S THE SAME.

HOW DIFFICULT DOES THAT MAKE IT FOR YOUR ORGANIZATION?

I KNOW -- DON'T SWEAT BECAUSE SOME OF YOUR MEMBERS CERTAINLY HAVE TAKEN THE STANCE THAT IT CAN'T BE A PRIORITY FOR ANY NUMBER OF REASONS, LIMITED RESOURCES.

OTHERS ARE ADAMANT THAT THIS IS WHERE THINGS BEGIN, YOU KNOW, FIRST IT'S THIS AND THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW IT'S GOING TO BE THREE OUNCES, FIVE OUNCES, TEN OUNCES.

HOW TOUGH IS IT FOR YOUR ORGANIZATION TO HAVE THAT PATCH WORK QUILT APPROACH ON A LIMITED BASIS?

>> TO THAT'S BEEN A DIFFICULT CONVERSATION FOR US FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS.

IN COMMITTEE LAST WEEK -- IN COMMITTEE LAST WEEK WE TALK ABOUT HOW THAT SPECIFIC SCENARIO WHERE THE COUNTY WE'RE IN HAS A DIFFERENT TAKE ON THE ISSUE, AND THEN TWO DAYS AGO IN COMMITTEE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POTENTIAL WAY TO REMOVE THAT PROSECUTOR.

SO IT'S DIFFICULT FOR OUR GROUP, BUT THE MAJORITY OF OUR GROUP STILL AGREES WITH THE LAW THE WAY THAT IT IS.

THEY TOOK NOTE TO UPHOLD THE STATE LAW ASKS THEY'RE GOING TO DO THAT, SO WHILE IT'S A DIFFICULT CONVERSATION, UNTIL THAT LAW IS CHANGED THEY'RE GOING TO FOLLOW IT.

>> AND YOU'VE TESTIFIED THAT YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS NOTION -- I THINK YOU USED THE PHRASE SLIPPERY SLOPE.

YOU LOOK AROUND THE 26, 27, 28 STATES THAT HAVE SOMETHING -- MANY OF THEM STARTED WITH SOMETHING MORE MODEST THAN THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF DISTRIBUTION AND AVAILABILITY THAT EXISTS NOW.

>> RIGHT.

LOOK, THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, WHEN YOU OPEN THIS DOOR, ACCESSIBILITY GOES UP.

THE AVAILABILITY FOR JUVENILES TO USE GOES YOU HAVE AND LIKE YOU SAID THERE IS NATIONAL STATISTICS THAT SAYS ONE IN TEN WILL BECOME ADDICTED AND ONE IN SIX, IF THEY START USING BEFORE THE AGE OF 18.

SO THAT'S A CONCERN FOR US.

AS FOR HOW THAT DOOR ONCE OPENED PERMEATES INTO SOCIETY, LOOK, EVERY STATE THAT HAS STARTED WITH MEDICAL AND THEN GONE TO A RECREATIONAL MARKET IS A PERFECT SIGN OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

WHEN I WAS IN MICHIGAN TRAVERSE CITY WAS WHERE THEIR STATE CANNABIS CONFERENCE WAS, AND IN TRAVERSE CITY THEY DID NOT ALLOW FOR RECREATIONAL EVEN THOUGH IT WAS ALLOWED STATEWIDE.

AND -- >> THEY DO NOW BY THE WAY.

>> THEY DO, THEY WERE GOING THROUGH THE PERMITTING APOLOGIZE BECAUSE THEY HAD A PETITION AND THEY TOOK IT UPON THE TOWN COUNCIL TO APPROVE THAT, BUT THEY SAID WE'RE GOING TO HAND OUT 16 LICENSES, 12 MEDICAL LICENSES HANDED OUT, AND I BELT YOU CAN GUESS WHO GOT THOSE.

SO IT'S KIND OF A RUSE TO SAY THAT ONCE WE OPEN THIS DOOR IT'S NOT GOING TO GO ANY FURTHER.

IT CERTAINLY WILL AND THAT'S A HUGE CONCERN.

>> THERE IS NO SECRET, THIS IS A STARTING POINT.

DECRIMINALIZATION IS A STARTING POINT.

>> YOU WOULD WELCOME THE SLIPPERY SLOPE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> WHAT IS YOUR IDEAL?

WHEN I SAY NIRVANA?

>> I THINK IT SHOULD BE A SAFE REGULATEDDED MARKET.

>> SO NOT JUST DECRIMINALIZATION, YOU WOULD WELCOME FULL SCALE MEDICAL EWING AND RECREATIONAL USE FOR ADULTS?

>> YES.

>> WITH LIMITS?

WE HAVE 30 GRAMS, GET 180 DAYS AND ATHEOUS AT THAT LEVEL OR ABOVE THAT YEAR, UP TO A YEAR IN JAIL AND -- NOT THAT I'VE STUDIED THESE, I HAVE FRIENDS WHO HAVE STUDYs THESE UP TO $5,000 FINE.

>> AND IT DEPENDS WHAT THE STATE OF THESE COURT OPINIONS COMING DOWN, IT'S ALMOST BEEN DECRIMINALIZED.

IF YOU GET PULLED OVER OR CAUGHT WITH A GREEN LEAFY SUBSTANCE ON YOUR PERSON, IF YOU DON'T ADMIT TO WHAT IT IS AND YOU HIRE AN ATTORNEY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PURSUE YOU, SO THIS IS NOT JUST A MARION COUNTY ISSUE.

AND OF.

>> IS THAT AN ARGUMENT FOR THE BILL OR AGAINST THE BILL?

>> IT'S AN ARGUMENT FOR THE BILL AND I WANT TO GO BACK TO THIS IDEA OF MICHIGAN, MICHIGAN ALLOW THEIR OAKS TO OPT IN OR OUT OF THE MARKET SO THEY RESULTED IN ISLANDS OF ARE PROHIBITION WITHIN THEIR STATE.

THE MEDICAL MARKET SHOWS YOU ONLY CAPTURE EIGHT TO 12 PERSIAN OF YOUR MARKET SO FOR JANUARY YOU'RE LOOKING AT EIGHT TO TEN, 12 PERCENT OF THE MARKET IF YOU DO MEDICAL ONLY AND THAT'S WHY THE STATES EXPAND THE REST BECAUSE THE GOAL IS TO TRANSITION THE CONSUMERS AND PRODUCERS TO A REGULATED MARKET, WHERE SOMEONE BEHIND A COUNTER IS REGULATING THE MARKET AND THEY'RE CHECKING AGE AND QUALITY STANDARDS.

>> IF IT'S LEGALIZED THE OVERWORKED FOLKS IN THE LAB AND ELSEWHERE WOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT -- IF IT'S ALL LEGAL, MAYBE SOMEBODY GETTING BOGUS POT BUT THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE FOR ANOTHER DAY.

DOES THAT MAKE YOUR LIFE EASIER IF -- >> I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE THE CONSUMER WATCH ADOPTION DOGS, IN MICHIGAN THERE'S A HUGE BLACK MARKET AND IT'S NOT PEOPLE FROM THE SOUTHERN BORDER THAT ARE BRINGING IT ALL UP OR DEALERS FROM OTHER STATES, IT'S THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THE GAME IN MICHIGAN, THEY'RE TRYING TO GET AROUND THE REGULATION.

SO THERE'S NO WELL RELATEDDED MARKET, AND PEOPLE TURN TO LAW ENFORCEMENT TO SAY WE NEED COVER HERE; AND IN NEW YORK, FOR INSTANCE, NEW YORK CITY JUST ROLLED OUT THEIR REGULATED MARKET.

THEY'VE HAD THREE RAIDS ON A SHOP THAT IS ACROSS THE STREET FROM CITY HALL HALL AND THEY'RE SAYING THEY'RE SELLING ILLEGAL CANNABIS.

NO ONE IS DOING IT RIGHT AND WHETHER WE'RE IN A PROHIBIT -- PROHIBITION MARKET LIKE JUSTIN SAYS IT'S ON LAW ENFORCEMENT TO STOP IT.

WE GO TO A REGULATED MARKET THEY GO TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AND SAY STOP IT.

>> LAW ENFORCEMENT IS DEALING WITH IT NOW ANYWAY.

HOOSIERS ARE PURCHASING I WOULD LEGALLY AND BRINGING IT BACK INTO THE STATE SO IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING.

>> MY POINT IS THIS IDEA THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT IS GOING TO BE RELIEVED ONCE THIS HAPPENS IS -- THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> ONE OTHER THING -- IT'S INTERESTING THIS ISSUE, BECAUSE THE GROUPS THAT TESTIFIED THEY'RE COMING AT THIS WITH DIFFERENT MOTIVATIONS, BUSINESS, PERSONAL, FREEDOM, CONCERNS ABOUT CRIME, BUT THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES EUROPE, THE INDIANA CHAPTER SAID WORRIED ABOUT RACIAL COMPONENT THAT PROSECUTORS -- AND I DON'T -- FORGIVE ME, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS DATA WAS THE STATE OR THE NATION BUT THREE AND A HALF TIMES MORE LIKELY THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE ARRESTED AND CHARGED FOR MINOR MARIJUANA POSSESSION OFFENSES THAN THEIR WHITE COUNTER-PAROTISESES -- >> ANY RACIAL STATISTIC IS CONCERNING BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT IS ATTEMPTING TO DO AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO ADDRESS, BUT THOSE STATISTIC, WE HAVE SEEN FROM COLORADO AND CALIFORNIA THEY DON'T CHANGE.

ONCE YOU GO TO A REGULATEDDED MARKET WHETHER IT'S AN UNLICENSED BUSINESS OR SOMEONE POSSESSING MORE THAN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO THOSE RACIAL STATISTICS REMAIN AND -- I'M SORRY, BUT THAT'S JUST NOT A GOOD ANSWER.

>> OTHER FACTORS MAY BE AT WORK THERE.

HEATH YOU SAID YOU'LL BE BACK NEXT JEER AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.

IN THE MEANTIME WHAT CAN BE DONE IN YOUR ESTIMATION TO CHANGE PERCEPTION?

NOW AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY ON THE NINTH OF JANUARY HAD CANNABIS DAY AT THE STATEHOUSE, I'M SURE OTHER SIMILAR EVENTS ARE PLANNED.

IN YOUREST MAY GOES WILL THEY MOVE THE NEEDLE OR WILL THIS TAKE TIME?

>> IT TAKES TIME BUT I WANT TO THANK CHAIRMAN McNAMARA FOR HEARING THE BILL.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY.

THERE'S TALK ABOUT NOW THAT THERE WASN'T BEFORE.

LEADERSHIP HAS SEEN THE PUSH FOR IT.

THERE'S MORE AND MORE LEGISLATORS WANTING TO DO IT SO I THINK HAVING THESE DISCUSSIONS.

I WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO WORK WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT TO -- LET THEM HELP ME DRAFT THE LIMITS AND WHAT WOULD BE BEST FOR HOOSIERS AND BEST FOR THEM.

>>> YOU HAVE A BUSINESS PLAN, WHEN DOES YOUR BUSINESS PLAN SHOW MATURITY?

>> I WOULD HOPE FOR AT LEAST THEN YEAR OR TO.

EVERY DAY WITH DON'T SET UP OUR REGULATIONS BECAUSE THAT TAKES TIME.

WE GET FURTHER AND FURTHER BEHIND, WE'RE AN AG STATE AND THERE'S NO REASON WE SHOULDN'T BE NATIONAL LEADERS IN THE MARKET.

>> I THINK EVERYONE HAS A BETTER HANDLE ON WHAT'S AT STAKE.

AGAIN REPRESENTATIVE HEATH VAN SENATE GNATTER AND JUSTIN SWANSON OF THE MIDWEST HEMP COUNCIL.

>>> TIME NOW FOR OUR WEEKLY CONVERSATION WITH INDIANA LAWMAKERS COMMENTATOR ED FEIGENBAUM, PUBLISHER OF THE NEWSLETTER INDIANA IN SIGHT, PART OF HANNAH NEWS SERVICE.

SO ED WHY DIDN'T 1297 GET A VOTE?

>> SIMPLE EXPLANATION, THE COMMITTEE CHAIR DIDN'T WANT TO GIVE IT A VOTE, SHE WANTED TO GIVE IT A HEARING U AND IT WASN'T A SEAHAWKS IT'S CAUCUS DECISION, BUT AS REPRESENTATIVE VAN NATTER SAID.

THERE'S GROWING SUPPORT FOR THIS LEGISLATION AND A LOT OF IS JUST OKAY WHAT DO WITH A I DO WITH THE MARGINS IF THE CAUCUS SIGNS OFF ON THIS BUT THE MARGINS ARE IMPORTANT BEASTLY THERE ARE SO MANY DANIELS ONCE YOU SAY WE'RE GOING TO GO PAST -- >> TALK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK ONCE THIS BILL IS PASSED AND SIGNED WE'RE DONE, BUT ACTUALLY YOU'RE LOOKING AT LICENSURE, REGULATION, YOU'RE LOOKING AT TESTING.

>> WHO GROWS IT, WHO DISTRIBUTES IT, HOW YOU'RE GOING TO REGULATE THOSE PEOPLE.

THERE'S A BIG CONTROVERSY SEVERAL YEARS AGO BECAUSE IT LOOKED LIKE THE VAPING INDUSTRY WAS GOING TO GET ITS NOSE UNDER THAT TENT, AND SOME PEOPLE WHEN THEY FIGURED THAT OUT WERE NOT VERY HAPPY WITH THAT AND SAID NOPE, YOU'RE OUT OF THIS AND IT LOOKS LIKE SOME OF THE PACKAGE RETAILERS IN THE ALCOHOL INDUSTRY ARE SAYING WE'RE REGULATED BY THE STATE, WE'VE BEEN SHOWING THIS FOR A HUNDRED YEARS, MAYBE WE OUGHT TO BE THE FOLKS THAT OUGHT TO BE LICENSED TO SELL THIS THING.

SO THERE ARE THOSE KIND OF CONSIDERATIONS.

YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH SOME OF THE PRACTICAL THINGS TODAY AB, OKAY, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT MINORITIES ARE AIDED IN THIS AND THE ILLINOIS AND OHIO IN PARTICULAR THAT'S BEEN A TOUCHY ISSUE BECAUSE THERE'S NOT BEEN IN THE EYES OF MANY, ENOUGH ATTENTION PAID TO HOW MINORITIES PARTICIPATE IN THE OWNERSHIP PROCESS IN THE DISTRIBUTION PROCESS, HOW THEY ARE LICENSES AND WHETHER IT'S GOING TO BE EASY ENOUGH OR AS EASY FOR THEM TO BE LICENSED AS OTHERS MIGHT BE.

SO A LOT OF COMPLICATIONS, AND THEN OF COURSE THERE'S ALL THE TESTING, THE THINGS INVOLVING BUSINESS THAT WE HEARD ABOUT FROM OUR FRIEND WITH THE PROSECUTING ATTORNEY'S COUNCIL.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL SPELL CHAIN HERE?

IS IT A FEDERAL RECLASSIFICATION OF THIS SUBSTANCE AS FROM THE SCHEDULE THAT WHERE IT IS NOW?

IS THAT WHAT ULTIMATELY WILL MOVE THE NEEDLE HERE?

>> THAT SERGE GETS THE GOVERNOR OFF THE DIME ON THIS ONE BUT THE GOVERNOR IS NOT GOING TO BE GOVERNOR FOR FOUR MORE YEARS AGO NOW BUT WOE DID SEE SOME IMPETUS A FEW YEARS AGO FOR DIFFERENT STATES TO SAY OKAY IF ROE V. WADE GETS OVERTURNED WE'RE PASSING THIS LAW SO WE'LL BE READY AND THERE MAY BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT SAME KIND OF THING HERE AND GET AROUND >> THE TRIGGER LAW AS SAY THEY.

ED ASSAULTS THANK YOU FOR YOUR IN SIGHT.

MUCH APPRECIATED.

ARE SCHOOL LIBRARIES PROVIDING MATERIALS HARMFUL TO STUDENTS?

SOME LEGISLATORS THINK SO AND THEY WANT TO HOLD TEACHERS AND LIBRARIANS ACCOUNTABLE.

WE'LL DISCUSS ON THE NEXT INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

>> THAT CONCLUDES ANOTHER EDITION OF LAWMAKERS.

I'M JON SCHWANTES AND ON BEHALF OF COMMENTATOR ED FEIGENBAUM AND INDIANA'S OTHER PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS I THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND I INVITE YOU TO VISIT WFYI.ORG FOR MORE STATEHOUSE NEWS.

UNTIL NEXT WEEK, TAKE CARE