>> JUST AHEAD ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM, A DEEP DIVE INTO BIDEN'S BUILD BACK BETTER PLAN, AND WHAT COULD MAKE IT A HAPPY NEW YEAR IF IT PASSES?

AND, SOMEONE'S GOT THE MEMO AS WE'RE SEEING MORE BLACK SANTAS.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF IT?

STAY WITH US.

♪ WELCOME TO BLACK ISSUES FORUM, I'M DEBORAH HOLT NOEL.

AS WE NEAR THE END OF 2021, A DEAL TO SEAL PRESIDENT BIDEN'S "“BUILD BACK BETTER"” PLAN IS CLOSING IN.

TODAY WE'RE TAKING A DEEP DIVE INTO A FEW KEY AREAS OF THIS SOCIAL POLICY AND CLIMATE CHANGE BILL.

I'D LIKE TO WELCOME SENATOR NATALIE MURDOCH OF DURHAM, DR. MARK LITTLE, AN ECONOMIST AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF CREATE AT THE UNC KENAN SCHOOL OF PRIVATE ENTERPRISE, AND POLITICAL ANALYST STEVE RAO.

BUT FIRST, WHEN CONGRESSWOMAN ALMA ADAMS ADDRESSED THE HOUSE ON THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION BACK IN NOVEMBER, HERE'S WHAT SHE SHARED ABOUT SOME OF THE DIRECT IMPACTS FOR NORTH CAROLINA.

>> IT EXTENDS THE CHILDCARE CREDIT FOR A YEAR, CUTTING CHILD POVERTY IN HALF.

IN NORTH CAROLINA, THAT'S A LIFELINE FOR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN GO TO BED HUNGRY EVERY NIGHT.

IF IT'S A 150 BILLION DOLLARS TOWARDS AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WHICH HAS BEEN DESCRIBED AS THE SINGLE LARGEST AND MOST COMPREHENSIVE INVESTMENT IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN HISTORY, AND CHARLOTTE, AND SO MANY OTHER COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THAT'S REAL PROGRESS ON OUR AFFORDABLE HOUSING CRISIS AND REAL RELIEF FOR OVER A HALF A MILLION AMERICANS WHO DON'T HAVE A ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS.

>> LET ME OPEN UP WITH YOU SENATOR MURDOCH, HOW INDEED CAN THIS POSSIBLY CUT CHILD POVERTY IN HALF AS REPRESENTATIVE ADAMS SAID?

>> ABOLUTELY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH DEBORAH AND I ALSO WOULD BE REMISS IF I DIDN'T JUST THANK CONGRESSWOMAN ADAMS FOR HER LEADERSHIP ON ON THIS TOPIC.

SOME STUDIES SHOW IT HAS ALREADY - THE CURRENT CHILD TAX CREDIT THAT WAS ALREADY EXTENDED HAS ALREADY REDUCE CHILD POVERTY UPWARDS OF 40%.

BUT SINCE I ALSO DID WORK WITH THE CONGRESSWOMAN ON BLACK MATERNAL HEALTH LEGISLATION HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA, ALSO HAVE TO AND IT WILL PROVIDE A ROBUST ONCE IN A LIFETIME FUNDING FOR BLACK MATERNAL HEALTH ISSUES, BUT CHILD POVERTY IS SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T TALK ENOUGH ABOUT AND THAT IS ONE OF THE MANY, HUGE, HUGE BENEFITS OF BUILD BACK BETTER WHICH IS WHY WE'RE ALL ANXIOUSLY AWAITING FOR THE SENATE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS LEGISLATION.

WE'VE ALL SEEN GAS PRICES GOING UP, INFLATION, THE COST OF EVERYTHING IS GOING UP.

SO I CAN'T THINK OF A BETTER TIME FOR US TO PROVIDE PARENTS WITH 3 TO $3600 DEPENDING ON THE AGE OF THEIR CHILD WITH THAT TAX CREDIT AND ALSO ADDITIONAL ASSISTANCE WITH HEALTH CARE WILL ALSO REDUCE OVERALL COSTS TO THESE HOUSEHOLDS WHICH WILL REALLY HELP TO REDUCE CHILDHOOD POVERTY IN PULL ENTIRE HOUSEHOLDS OUT OF POVERTY FOR THE LONG TERM.

>> AND ONCE AGAIN TAKING A LOOK AT SOME OF THE KEY PROVISIONS OF THIS 1.75 TRILLION DOLLAR SOCIAL INFRASTRUCTURE BILL IF PASSED, IT WOULD MEAN 555 BILLION DOLLARS FOR CLIMATE CHANGE, 400 BILLION DOLLARS FOR UNIVERSAL PRE K, 200 BILLION FOR CHILD TAX CREDITS, AS SENATOR MURDOCH WAS TALKING ABOUT, 200 BILLION FOR 4 WEEKS OF PAID LEAVE, 165 BILLION FOR HEALTH CARE SPENDING, AND 150 BILLION TO EXPAND AFFORDABLE HOME CARE, AND 150 BILLION FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

NOW LET ME PULL YOU IN DOCTOR LITTLE TAKING A LOOK AT SOME OF THE KEY PRIORITIES OF THE 1.7 5 TRILLION DOLLAR SOCIAL INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, IF PASSED, IT WOULD MEAN ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, BUT YOU KNOW HOW IS THIS GOING TO REALLY IMPACT BLACK AND LATINO AND VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA?

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE SPECIFICS?

>> YES, I THINK IF I COULD I'LL FOCUS ON THE PRE K A LITTLE BIT.

THE THING THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING ABOUT THIS IS I THINK IT HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO 2 THINGS.

ONE ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT THE SENATOR WAS SAYING PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INCOME AND WEALTH IN THEIR HOMES THAT THEY'RE HAVING TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS, DO THEY PAY FOR CHILD CARE OR NOT.

THEY'VE NOW HAVE THAT WEALTH FREED UP.

THE OTHER THING THOUGH IS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING IN THE PRE K SECTOR ARE OVERWHELMINGLY BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE AS COMPARED TO K THROUGH 12 EDUCATION, AND SO BY BRINGING THAT SPECTRUM OF WORK CONNECTED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO INCREASE THOSE WAGES AND ALSO AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE MORE JOB OPPORTUNITIES FOR THOSE FOLKS AND THE WAY THAT IS STRUCTURED THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE MORE WEALTH BECAUSE MANY OF THOSE BUSINESSES ARE ACTUALLY OWNED BY BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE AND SO FEDERAL DOLLARS COMING TO FAMILIES THAT HAVE YOUNG KIDS WHO NEED CHILDCARE, FUNNELLING INTO THIS NEW FRAMEWORK THAT'S COMING IS GOING TO HAVE I THINK A DISPROPORTIONATELY POSITIVE IMPACT ON THOSE FAMILIES THAT NEED IT THE MOST AND THOSE ARE BLACK AND BROWN FAMILIES.

>> SO HELPFUL TO UNDERSTAND EXACTLY HOW THIS SPENDING WOULD ACTUALLY WORK AND BE IN EFFECT.

STEVE LET ME GET YOU IN HERE IS THIS AN AREA OF PARTISAN CONTENTION?

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT'S BEING TO BE DEBATED?

ARE PEOPLE OUR LEGISLATORS PRETTY MUCH ON BOARD AND TOGETHER ON THIS ASPECT OF OF THE BILL?

>> WELL I THINK THAT THE BIGGEST REPUBLICAN CONTENTION ACROSS THE COUNTRY IS THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT THIS BILL WOULD PUT IN AND WHAT IT WILL CONTRIBUTE TO CONTINUED RISING PRICES, INFLATION.

I THINK IN THE MOST PART IT PEOPLE ARE YOU KNOW GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE THEY SEE THE BENEFITS OF GETTING THIS BILL PASSED JUST AS THEY DID THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL.

BUT IT MIGHT COME BACK TO THE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE CONTINUING TO RESIST THIS LEGISLATION TO PARTISANSHIP IS THAT, I AGREE WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN THAT THERE'S NO GREATER ECONOMIC ENGINE THAN THE INGENUITY AND HARD WORK OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, AND WE HAVE TO GROW THE MIDDLE CLASS.

IN INDIA, IN CHINA, THE MIDDLE CLASS IS GROWING BUT THE MIDDLE CLASS AND THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR OUR MIDDLE CLASS ARE SHRINKING IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME, IT'S BEEN A LONG LONG TIME SINCE THIS INVESTMENT AND ATTENTION ON THE MIDDLE CLASS HAS HAPPENED, SO WHEN THERE'S NEGLECT OR FOR A LONG TIME, IT'S NO WONDER IT'S GOING TO TAKE A SIGNIFICANT INFUSION AND INVESTMENT OF DOLLARS TO HELP BUILD BACK BETTER.

SENATOR MURDOCH ANOTHER CRITICAL COMPONENT IS BUILD BACK BETTER HAS SOME OTHER PROVISIONS.

DOES IT FILL THE GAP, AND IF SO HOW?

>> IT VERY MUCH SO DOES, AND HONESTLY, I APPLAUD THE BIDEN HARRIS ADMINISTRATION FOR MAKING THIS A SIGNATURE PIECE OF THE BUILD BACK BETTER ACT AND TO BE CLEAR, OUR OWN CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA WENT DIRECTLY TO LEADERSHIP TO SAY YOU KNOW NORTH CAROLINA IS ONE OF I BELIEVE OF 11 STATES THAT HAS FAILED TO EXPAND MEDICAID, AND SO WITH BUILD BACK BETTER WE WILL CLOSE THAT COVERAGE GAP THERE ARE OVER 200,000 SOME ODD NORTH CAROLINIANS THAT FALL IN THAT GAP AND EARLIER WE WERE TALKING A LOT ABOUT MIDDLE CLASS BUT ALSO THOSE WHO EARN EVEN LOWER WAGES, FIND THEMSELVES IN THAT GAP BECAUSE WHEN YOU COMBINE THE INCOME OF THEMSELVES AND THEIR SPOUSE, THEY MAY NOT BE ELIGIBLE CURRENTLY, BUT THEY'RE STILL STRUGGLING TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

A LOT OF US ARE ONE MEDICAL EMERGENCY AWAY FROM BEING EVICTED FROM OUR FROM OUR HOMES.

IT THEY VERY MUCH CAN BE THE MOST EXPENSIVE PART OF YOUR BUDGET.

SO THOSE OVER 200,000 CAROLINIANS WE'LL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE INCLUDED ON THE EXCHANGE A LOT OF THEIR PRE PREMIUMS WILL COMPLETELY BE COVERED AND ENOUGH IS ENOUGH AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE REACHED A BUDGET IMPASSE WE DO FINALLY HAVE A BUDGET THIS YEAR, BUT WE EVEN IN OUR BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS THIS YEAR HOPEFUL THAT IN EXCHANGE FOR OTHER THINGS WE COULD FINALLY EXPAND MEDICAID, BUT I DO BELIEVE THE VENT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS VERY SERIOUS ABOUT THIS AND IN THE EVENT THAT NORTH CAROLINA CANNOT CHART A PATH TO MEDICAID EXPANSION, THEY WILL DO IT FOR US.

THAT IS WHY YOU DID SEE LANGUAGE AROUND A MEDICAID STUDY GROUP INCLUDED IN OUR BUDGET.

I DO BELIEVE THAT WE WILL COME BACK IN SHORT SESSION AND RETURN TO THE TABLE WITH VERY SERIOUS DISCUSSIONS ABOUT MEDICAID EXPANSION KNOWING THAT I'M CONFIDENT THAT SOME FORM OF BUILD BACK BETTER WILL PASS AND AND THAT IS A KEY COMPONENT AND THAT SPECIFIC PROVISION IS FOR STATES LIKE NORTH CAROLINA THAT HAVE FAILED TO ACT SO FAR.

>> DOCTOR LITTLE WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THESE PROVISIONS AND HOW THEY COMPARE SAY TO TO MEDICAID EXPANSION?

SOUNDS LIKE IT'S A REALLY POSITIVE MOVE FORWARD AND A GOOD COMPROMISE.

>> YES, I THINK GIVEN THE RELUCTANCE, UNWILLINGNESS OF A NUMBER OF STATES, THINK IT'S 11 OR 12 STATES INCLUDING NORTH CAROLINA TO EXPAND THE BENEFITS.

THIS REALLY IS THE ONLY OPTION THAT THERE, AND AS THE SENATOR SAID, IT SEEMS TO COVER ALMOST EVERYTHING FOR EXAMPLE, SOME OF THE MEDICARE LIKE BENEFITS AROUND TRANSPORTATION THAT AREN'T TYPICALLY ON THE HEALTH CARE MARKETPLACE, THOSE KINDS OF COVERAGE THAT WILL BE INCLUDED FOR PEOPLE THAT WILL NOW BE COVERED BY THIS.

THE ONLY REAL CONCERN THAT I HAVE IS JUST AROUND GETTING PEOPLE TO SIGN UP AND IT'S JUST ANOTHER THING THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, 'AM I COVERED BY THIS?

AM I COVERED BY THAT?'

THIS GETS VERY VERY COMPLICATED.

>> SO THEY'LL BE SOME BUREAUCRACY INVOLVED WITH THIS, AND YOU'VE GOT TO FILL THIS OUT AND GO THROUGH THIS APPLICATION?

>> AND LEARN ABOUT IT, SO THE BILL HAS A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF DOLLARS IN THERE TO TELL PEOPLE ABOUT THIS NEW BENEFIT, BUT IT'S GOING TO VARY BY STATE.

AND THERE'S ALSO SOME PARTS THAT OVERLAP A LITTLE BIT, SO PEOPLE HAVE TO DECIDE DO THEY GET OFF ONE INSURANCE, IT JUST MAKES IT MORE COMPLICATED, BUT GIVEN THE AGAIN THE UNWILLINGNESS OF CERTAIN STATES TO EXPAND BENEFITS THAT ARE THERE FOR THEM, THIS REALLY IS I THINK THE BEST THAT WE COULD HOPE FOR.

>> IT'S A MOVE FORWARD AS I SEE IT AND FOR A LONG TIME, THERE'S BEEN DEBATED THIS QUESTION, I'M GOING TO DIRECT THIS TO ALL THREE OF YOU, STARTING WITH YOU STEVE.

IS HEALTH CARE A RIGHT A PRIVILEGE OR RESPONSIBILITY, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK HEALTH CARE IS A RIGHT.

I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE UNITED NATIONS HUMAN RIGHTS DECLARATION, IT WAS MENTIONED AS A RIGHT THERE.

AND OUR CONSTITUTION SAYS EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN IS GUARANTEED LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS AND I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY IMPORTANT AND FUNDAMENTAL THAT WE HAVE HEALTH CARE SO THAT WE CAN BE FREE.

WE CAN LIVE OUR LIVES, WE CAN ENJOY OUR TIMES AS AMERICANS.

SO IT IS A RIGHT AND I THINK IT'S ALSO OUR RESPONSIBILITY FOR US TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR OWN HEALTH CARE, BUT ALSO IN TERMS OF JUST STAYING HEALTHY, KEEPING OUR IMMUNE SYSTEM STRONG, HEALTHY DIETS, BUT GOVERNMENTS ALSO HAVE AN OBLIGATION OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE THOSE HEALTHY CHOICES FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE HEALTHY WE CAN REDUCE OUR HEALTH CARE COSTS.

SO THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS YES, HEALTHCARE IS A RIGHT, IN CANADA AND OTHER NATIONS LIKE ENGLAND PROVIDING IT WOULD REQUIRE TRADEOFFS BUT I BELIEVE THIS WOULD DRIVE OUR POLICY DECISIONS AND I'M GLAD WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE SENATOR MURDOCH IN OUR STATE SENATE THAT ARE PUSHING TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS RIGHT IS THERE FOR EVERY NORTH CAROLINIAN.

>> SENATOR MURDOCH IT MAY HAVE ALREADY BEEN STATED FOR YOU, BUT >> YES.

YES, ABSOLUTELY AND THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT IS NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART, MY MOM IS A PUBLIC HEALTH NURSE.

I WAS ABLE TO SEE EVERY DAY THE IMPACT OF HEALTH CARE AND JUST HOW IT REALLY IMPACTS YOUR EVERYDAY LIFE, I'M A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, LAUNCHED MY OWN COMPANY IN 2017.

SO I KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO HAVE TO PAY FOR THOSE COSTS ON YOUR OWN.

AT ONE TIME I WAS PAYING $500 A MONTH FOR MY HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

I HAVE A SPECIFIC STOMACH CONDITION WHERE I NEED A CERTAIN LEVEL OF MEDICATIONS SO I HAD TO GET THE TYPE OF HEALTH CARE COVERAGE THAT WOULD COVER MEDICINE THAT IF I WERE TO PAY OUT OF POCKET WOULD HAVE BEEN $1200 FOR A THREE MONTH SUPPLY.

AND CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY SENIORS I TALK TO THAT STRUGGLE, PAYING FOR THE MEDICAL PRESCRIPTION COVERAGE THAT ALSO HAS SOME BENEFITS IN BUILD BACK BETTER, SO IT IS A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT AND AS STEVE MENTIONED EARLIER, SO MANY OTHER COUNTRIES ARE GETTING THIS RIGHT WE'LL IN A LITTLE BIT LATER IN THE SEGMENT TALK ABOUT THE CLIMATE CHANGE PART OF THE POLICY, BUT WHEN I RECENTLY WENT TO SCOTLAND FOR COP 26 AND TALKED TO A YOUNG MAN IN LONDON WHO WAS IN HIS 30'S UNFORTUNATELY WAS DIAGNOSED WITH BRAIN CANCER AND HAD ALL OF THAT COVERED.

IT WAS COVERED HE DIDN'T HAVE TO STOP HIS LIFE AND HAVE THE INABILITY TO AFFORD HIS LIFESTYLE BECAUSE HE WAS DIAGNOSED WITH BRAIN CANCER.

SO WE'VE WE'VE GOT TO FIGURE THIS OUT.

>> DOCTOR LITTLE YOUR THOUGHTS ON IT.

PRIVILEGE.

RIGHT, RESPONSIBILITY?

>> SO I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY ALL OF THOSE AND MAYBE THE THING THAT I WANT TO ADD HERE THAT MAY BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

IS THE HEALTH CARE THAT WE DO HAVE AND IT'S REALLY HEAVY ON MACHINES AND DRUGS THAT CAN BE EXPENSIVE AND REALLY LIGHT ON PREVENTION, NUTRITION, AND BEHAVIORAL INTERVENTIONS.

AND SO THE HEALTH CARE THAT WE HAVE ACCESS TO NEEDS TO CHANGE AND THIS IS BEYOND THIS INFRASTRUCTURE, BILL, BUT WE REALLY NEED TO FOCUS ON HOW DO WE END DISPARITIES IN THE SYSTEM ITSELF, AND THEN REALLY FOCUS HOW DO WE KEEP PEOPLE HEALTHY FROM BIRTH THROUGH THE COURSE OF THEIR LIFE, AS YOU MAY KNOW LIFE EXPECTANCIES IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE BEEN FLAT FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS.

BEFORE COVID, RIGHT?

AND SO WE REALLY NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT ARE ONE THOSE THINGS WHETHER IT'S OPIOIDS, OBESITY, DIABETES, THESE THINGS THAT ARE PREVENTABLE THAT REALLY ARE IMPACTING PEOPLE AND THINK ABOUT THE BROADER PICTURE.

>> AND THE PRE DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH, THAT HIT SO MANY FROM BIRTH ALL THE WAY ON.

BUT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE PRE DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH, THOSE THINGS THOSE EXPERIENCES THAT HAPPEN WITHIN YOUR LIFE DURING THOSE FIRST FEW YEARS THAT YOU'RE HERE, THEY CAN HAVE A LIFELONG IMPACT.

OBESITY, MENTAL HEALTH, AND THAT THAT FEEDS INTO YOUR FINANCIAL WELL-BEING SO THAT PREVENTIVE PIECE IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL.

I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU AND WE KNOW ANOTHER MAJOR CHUNK OF THIS LEGISLATION THAT'S BEEN PROVIDED FOR IS ABOUT 555 BILLION FOR CLIMATE CHANGE.

STEVE WHAT ARE SOME OF THESE PROVISIONS AND HOW DID THE ADDRESS SOME OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL NEEDS OF NORTH CAROLINIANS WHO ARE MORE VULNERABLE AND IN THOSE DISTRESSED AREAS?

>> WELL I THINK WHAT'S REALLY APPEALING ABOUT THIS PART OF THE BILL IS THE SIGNIFICANT TAX CREDITS THAT PROVIDE ASSISTANCE FOR THOSE THAT ARE MOVING AND TRANSITIONING TOWARDS INCREASED ENERGY EFFICIENCY, REDUCING THE COST FOR EXAMPLE FOR SOLAR ROOFTOPS BY 30%, REDUCING THE COST OF ELECTRIC VEHICLES BY ALMOST 12,500 FOR THE AVERAGE AMERICAN FAMILY JUST BECAUSE WE'RE MANUFACTURING THESE VEHICLES HERE AND ALSO TAX CREDITS FOR THOSE AS WELL.

AND I THINK, JUST ALL OF THE INCENTIVES AND CREDITS THAT ARE THERE TO HELP THOSE IN RURAL AREAS OF NORTH CAROLINA TO MOVE TOWARDS ENERGY EFFICIENCY, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, REDUCING ENERGY COSTS WHICH WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE ON THE SHOW.

OUR ENERGY PRICES ARE RISING, UTILITY BILLS ARE RISING AND PEOPLE NEED TO HAVE THE POWER ON, THEY NEED TO HAVE THE LIGHTS ON, THEIR UTILITIES RUNNING LIKE WATER, AND THIS BILL DOES EXACTLY THAT AND MISTER LITTLE ALSO BROUGHT UP THE POINT OF JOBS.

AND SO LET'S NOT FORGET THAT AS WE MOVE TOWARDS A GREEN ECONOMY, WE'RE GOING TO BE CREATING MILLIONS OF JOBS IN THE U.S. AND WE WANT MANY OF THOSE JOBS IN NORTH CAROLINA.

SO THAT OUR OUR GOVERNOR AND CHRIS ZHANG AND THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT CAN RECRUIT THESE THESE NEW INNOVATIONS.

SO I'M EXCITED ABOUT THAT AND I THINK THIS IS GREAT FOR THE CITIZENS OF NORTH CAROLINA.

>> DOCTOR LITTLE HELP DRAW A PICTURE FOR US SO YOU KNOW IF THIS IS IMPACTING PEOPLE IN RURAL AREAS, WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE THOSE HIGH ENERGY BILLS THAT CAN COME FROM NOT HAVING WELL INSULATED HOMES FOR EXAMPLE.

THAT MIGHT BE ONE EXAMPLE MIGHT BE THE KEY ONE, BUT DRAW A PICTURE FOR US ABOUT HOW IS THIS REALLY GOING TO WORK?

>> YEAH, SO I THINK AS STEVE WAS SAYING, THE SOLAR PANEL SUBSIDIES I THINK ARE QUITE IMPORTANT.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF BLACK HOMEOWNERS IN RURAL PLACES AND ACTUALLY IN MY WORK AT UNC WE WORKED WITH MANY OF THEM OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS HAS BEEN VERY INTERESTED GETTING SOLAR PANELS UP.

IT'S JUST BEEN DIFFICULT, AND SO THIS BILL GOES A LONG WAY TO MAKING THAT POSSIBLE.

THE OTHER THING THAT'S INTERESTING IS BLACK INDIGENOUS AND LATINO PEOPLE WHETHER IN RURAL OR URBAN PLACES ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE EXPOSED TO AIR POLLUTION ACROSS THE UNITED STATES AND INCLUDING IN NORTH CAROLINA.

AND THE PROMISE OF THIS BILL TO PUSH FORWARD THE DECARBONIZATION OF OUR TRANSPORTATION IS ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO PREVENT HEALTH PROBLEMS BECAUSE OF BAD AIR FOR BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE.

>> WHY ARE BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE EXPOSED TO BAD AIR.

>> WELL IN THE PLACES WHERE MOST BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE LIVE TEND TO BE CLOSER TO HIGHWAYS CLOSER TO MANUFACTURING AND ALL THESE CONTRIBUTE TO POOR AIR QUALITY.

AND SO ONE COMPONENT OF THAT AIR QUALITY OF LARGE COMPONENT IS PARTICULATES THEY COME OUT OF GASOLINE AND DIESEL COMBUSTION, TRANSPORTATION.

AND AGAIN, THIS IS NOT A SHORT TERM THING IT'S GOING TO TAKE MANY YEARS TO REALLY CHANGE THE LOOK OF THE TRANSPORTATION FLEET IN THE UNITED STATES.

THIS WILL HAVE DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT ON THE HEALTH OF BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE.

A COUPLE OF LAST THINGS I WANT TO THROW IN THERE, NORTH CAROLINA HAS JUST LANDED A LITHIUM BATTERY MANUFACTURER.

THERE IS ALSO A LITHIUM MINING COMPANY THAT IS PLANNING TO DO WORK IN NORTH CAROLINA, PIEDMONT LITHIUM, AND SO I JUST WANT TO A LITTLE CAUTION THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT FOR PEOPLE HERE.

WE HAVEN'T HAD TO THINK ABOUT THE KINDS OF THINGS THE TEXAS.

CALIFORNIA AND OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE IN TERMS OF EXPLOITATION OF FOSSIL FUELS.

BUT RENEWABLE ENERGY IT'S NOT WITHOUT ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT AND WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO BE GRAPPLING WITH SOME OF THOSE ISSUES HERE AND THEN LASTLY I AGREE DEFINITELY THAT THERE'S GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR JOBS.

MY CONCERN THERE IS SIMILAR TO THE TECH INDUSTRY AS WE WRAP THIS UP AS WE'RE THROWING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO WHAT WILL BE A GROWING INDUSTRY THAT BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES AND BLACK WORKERS ARE NOT GOING TO BE THE ONES THAT ARE GETTING THE MIDDLE AND HIGHER WAGE PAYING JOBS AND SO WE'RE AT THE FRONT OF THIS.

IT'S HOPEFUL THAT WOULD BE VERY COGNIZANT OF THIS AND FIGURE OUT HOW DO WE GET BLACK OWNED BUSINESSES PLUGGED AND SO THEY CAN GROW WITH WHAT'S GOING TO BE A HUGE, HUGE OPPORTUNITY FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> I HOPE SO AS WELL AND THAT IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT POINT THAT YOU MADE DOCTOR LITTLE.

WANT TO TAKE US ON TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING BECAUSE IT'S DIRECTLY TIED TO WHAT YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT THESE GREAT HIGH PAYING JOBS THAT ARE COMING HERE AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE DEEP POCKETS TO AFFORD MORE EXPENSIVE HOUSING, SO HOUSING IS MORE EXPENSIVE.

WHY NOT?

SENATOR MIRAGE, HOW IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING INCREASING UNDER THIS BILL?

>> YES, DEFINITELY WOULD DO A LOT OF WORK TO INCREASE AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND DO HAVE TO TOUCH A LITTLE BIT ON THE INVESTMENTS IT WILL MAKE THROUGH HUD.

RECENTLY CAME FROM A NATIONAL CONFERENCE WHERE I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR DIRECTLY FROM SECRETARY MARCIA FUDGE AND SHE IS REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS PROVISION IN THIS BILL AND NOT TO ONLY EQUATE AFFORDABLE HOUSING WITH HUD.

BUT DO JUST HAVE TO HIGHLIGHT WE JUST HAVE SO MUCH WORK TO DO RIGHT HERE IN DURHAM.

OUR INABILITY TO MAINTAIN MCDOUGALD TERRACE ONE OF OUR LARGEST PUBLIC HOUSING UNITS MADE NATIONAL NEWS.

WE WERE HAVING A LOT OF ISSUES AND CONCERNS THERE, AND SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE THAT DOES INCLUDE HOUSING IN JUST SO MANY OF THOSE PROPERTIES ACROSS THE NATION, INCLUDING HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA, ARE JUST - SO DO UPGRADES A LOT OF THAT WILL HAVE TO BE COMPLETELY REBUILT FROM SCRATCH.

SO REALLY EXCITED THAT IT WILL INCLUDE LONG-TERM INVESTMENTS THAT WE REALLY NEED YOU KNOW FOR THE LEAST OF THESE, FOR FOLKS THAT REALLY REALLY HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO UTILIZE THESE FEDERALLY AND IN STATES SUBSIDIZE PROGRAMS FOR HOUSING, SO REALLY REALLY EXCITED THAT WE WILL PROVIDE THOSE INVESTMENTS THAT WE REALLY NEED IN ADDITION TO OTHER VOUCHER PROGRAMS IN AND OTHER WAYS THAT YOU CAN PROVIDE HOUSING THAT AREN'T KIND OF WHAT WE TRADITIONALLY THINK OF AS AFFORDABLE, AND EVEN ENTICE MORE LANDLORDS TO STAY IN IF YOU HAVE 5, 6, HOMES THAT YOU OWN, HOW CAN WE DO A BETTER JOB OF MAKING SURE THAT WE GET MORE FOLKS IN NEED IN THOSE PROPERTIES AS WELL SINCE WE ARE PHASING OUT OVER TIME KIND OF THE REALLY HUGE PROPERTIES WE'RE GETTING MORE INTO MORE MIXED WHERE YOU KNOW YOU MAY JUST HAVE A FEW HOMES IN A NEIGHBORHOOD AND YOU DON'T KNOW THAT THEY'RE AFFORDABLE AND THAT THEY'RE WORKING WITH SOME SORT OF VOUCHER PROGRAM.

SO AS WE CONTINUE TO TREND MORE IN THAT DIRECTION BUILD BACK BETTER WILL PROVIDE THOSE IN INVESTMENTS, AND TO WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE WITH WHAT DOCTOR LITTLE SAID I THINK OF ALL OF THESE INVESTMENTS WE JUST HAVE TO REALLY BE UP FRONT ABOUT THE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DISBURSEMENT OF THE FUNDS ARE EQUITABLE AND THE SAME GOES FOR HOUSING, YOU CAN'T JUST GO TO YOU KNOW CERTAIN GROUPS AND CERTAIN PEOPLE.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T LEAVE OUT BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE AS WE ARE DISTRIBUTING THESE FUNDS.

>> YEAH, EXACTLY AND I THINK THAT EVERYONE HAS TO SIMPLY BE PAYING VERY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

EVERY DECEMBER CHILDREN ALL OVER THE WORLD LOOK FORWARD TO HAVING THIS MAN COME DOWN THEIR CHIMNEYS WITH A BAG OF TOYS AND GOODIES.

SANTA CLAUS IS THE DELIGHT OF THE SEASON AND HE LOOKS LIKE THIS, USUALLY.

TODAY WE'RE SEEING MORE SANTAS WHO LOOK LIKE THIS AND I WANT TO ASK YOU KNOW WHAT DO YOU ALL MAKE OF IT?

I WANT TO OPEN UP WITH YOU DOCTOR LITTLE.

THE BLACK SANTA.

>> MY BEST FRIEND WHO IS CHINESE AMERICAN AND LIVES IN D.C., THREE YEARS AGO SPENT ALL THIS EFFORT TO FIND HIMSELF A BLACK SANTA SO THAT HE AND HIS FAMILY COULD VISIT AND GET PICTURES WITH HIM.

SO EVEN BEFORE THIS CURRENT WAVE, I THINK THERE ARE NUMBER OF PEOPLE OF ALL COLORS WHO ARE GOING TO BE EXCITED ABOUT HAVING DIFFERENT SANTAS OUT THERE.

I'LL SAY I DIDN'T GROW UP IN A HOUSHOLD WITH SANTA CLAUS, BUT I LOOKED AT WIKIPEDIA AND LOOKED UP SAINT NICK.

PLEASE DO SO BECAUSE THE ACTUAL SAINT NICK IS A PRETTY PRETTY COOL DUDE.

[LAUGHTER] >> I CAN ONLY IMAGINE WATCHING THE RALEIGH CHRISTMAS PARADE.

NOW HERE'S REAL CHANGE AND DIVERSITY YOU'RE WATCHING THE RALEIGH CHRISTMAS PARADE AND AT THE END THE FINALE IS SANTA CLAUS AND HE'S BLACK.

YOU KNOW WHEN DOES THIS HAPPEN?

THEY'RE ALREADY DOING IT AT DISNEY PARKS, THEY'RE PRESENTING BLACK SANTAS.

STEVE YOU'RE OF INDIAN DESCENT, DOES IT MATTER TO YOU?

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT?

>> I MEAN I'D LOVE FOR THERE TO BE AN INDIAN SANTA.

WHAT IF SANTA WAS LIKE YOU KNOW, LIKE SORT OF LIKE DIFFERENT PEOPLE - SANTAS EVERY YEAR?

FIRST OF ALL WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD IN MORRISVILLE TO WELCOME SANTA, YOU KNOW IT'S NOT EASY TO BRING REINDEER AND A SLEIGH INTO RDU AIRPORT SPACE BUT YOU KNOW ON A SERIOUS NOTE, I THINK IT'S IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN HAVING A BLACK ANNIE WHICH IS WONDERFUL FOR THE ANNIE LIVE OR WITH JAMES BOND WE WANT TO RECAST JAMES BOND TO BE SOMEONE DIFFERENT WHETHER THEY'RE ASIAN OR BLACK OR WHATEVER LATINO AND WHY NOT WITH SANTA?

I MEAN I THINK YOU KNOW THERE'S ALWAYS AN ASSUMPTION THAT SANTA CLAUS IS THIS WHITE MAN.

BUT I THINK NOW IN A GLOBAL ECONOMY WE SHOULD THINK OUT OF THE BOX AND I THINK IT'S GREAT TO CHANGE IT UP AND I COMMEND DISNEY FOR THIS, AND THE STORES, AND I DO WANT AN INDIAN SANTA.

>> YEAH, I HAVEN'T SEEN THAT YET SO YOU KNOW, LET'S JUST BROADEN IT ON OUT.

SENATOR MURDOCH, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

IS BLACK SANTA GOING MAINSTREAM?

DO YOU THINK THAT WE'LL SEE - YOU THINK WHITE PARENTS WOULD BE JUST AS READY TO STAND IN LINE AND HAVE THEIR CHILDREN PHOTOGRAPHED WITH A BLACK SANTA?

>> I THINK THEY WILL AND YOU ARE DEFINITELY SEEING IT.

I MEAN FROM BROADWAY TO DISNEY YOU ARE SEEING JUST MORE DIVERSITY.

REPRESENTATION, MATTERS, PARTICULARLY WITH CHILDREN.

I THINK THE EARLIER THAT CHILDREN ARE EXPOSED TO A MYRIAD OF DIFFERENT RACES AND CULTURES, THE BETTER.

>> I GREW UP IN GREENSBORO, NORTH CAROLINA AND WE ALWAYS HAD BREAKFAST WITH A BLACK SANTA AT BENNETT COLLEGE AND SO I GREW UP WITH IT AND IT MEANT SO MUCH TO ME.

I STILL CHERISH THOSE PHOTOS AND I THINK PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO THESE ICONIC FIGURES THAT CHILDREN LOOK UP TO THEY REALLY REALLY NEED TO SEE THEMSELVES IN THESE PEOPLE AND SO THAT IS WHY I'M ALL FOR BLACK SANTAS, I WOULDN'T GO AS FAR TO SAY THAT IT'S MAINSTREAM.

BUT I AM GLAD THAT WE ARE SEEING MORE OF THAT BECAUSE REPRESENTATION REALLY MATTERS AS FAR AS THE WAY THAT YOU DEVELOP YOUR SENSE OF SELF, I THINK IT CAN HAVE A HUGE IMPACT FOR YOUNG CHILDREN AND YOUNG PEOPLE TO SEE THAT.

>> YEAH I THINK SO TOO I JUST REMEMBER BEING YOUNG AND SANTA CLAUS WITH SANTA CLAUS.

I ACTUALLY DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THE COLOR, BUT REPRESENTATION DOES MATTER, SO MARK, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON REPRESENTATION, MATTERS AND WHAT KIDS REALLY ARE LOOKING AT.

>> IN ABOUT 30 SECONDS.

>> YES, I THINK THE 2 THINGS HERE.

ONE, ABSOLUTELY AGREE HAVING MORE PEOPLE LOOKING DIFFERENT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR EVERYONE, SO IT'S IMPORTANT FOR MY KIDS TO SEE SOMEONE LOOKS LIKE THEM, BUT IT MAY BE ALSO IMPORTANT FOR OTHER KIDS THAT DON'T LOOK LIKE BLACK SANTAS LIKE, 'OH, BLACK PEOPLE THEY'RE FRIENDLY!

'I CAN SIT ON THEIR LAP AND NOT WORRY AND THEY GIVE ME GIFTS.'

ALL THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

>> ANYYBODY IS GIVING GIFTS WITH PERMISSION OF THE PARENTS.

IS OKAY, SO I APPRECIATE YOU ALL'S FEEDBACK ON ALL OF THAT.

SENATOR NATALIE MURDOCK STEVE RAO DOCTOR MARK LITTLE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM.

>> HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH DEBORAH.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS.

>> THANK YOU.

>>HAPPY NEW YEAR.

>> I WANT TO THANK TODAY'S GUESTS.

WE INVITE YOU TO ENGAGE WITH US ON TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM USING THE HASHTAG BLACK ISSUES FORUM.

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FOR BLACK ISSUES FORUM, I'M DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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♪ >> QUALITY PUBLIC TELEVISION IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTIONS OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU WHO INVITE YOU TO JOIN THEM IN SUPPORTING PBS NC.