Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by viewers like you.

>> Nash: This week on New Mexico in Focus internal party politics play out ahead of the November election, an update on the GOP's leadership squabble and how the Democrats will choose Deb Haaland█s running mate.

>> Dean: This situation is a unique situation that does allow anyone the opportunity to jump in to the race for the second most powerful person in New Mexico.

>> Nash: and a small New Mexico town is nearly out of water, and its mayor is nowhere to be found.

An update on the crisis in Estancia.

New Mexico in Focus starts now.

Thanks for being here.

I'm Nash Jones.

So when Democratic candidate for governor Deb Haaland, was interior secretary, she instituted a ten mile buffer zone around Chaco Culture National Historical Park, barring new and gas leases in the area for 20 years.

Well, if current Secretary Doug Burgos, Interior Department has its way, that withdrawl will end much sooner.

The agency has moved ahead with the next step in removing or shrinking the protection, and is taking public comment on its environmental review of that proposal.

We're going to update you more on the matter and let you know how you can chime in here in a bit.

Also, while nowhere in New Mexico is awash in water, Estancia is experiencing a particularly dire crisis.

We're going to speak to a reporter from the Mountain Air Dispatch about how much water the town has in the tank, why its supply is dwindling even faster than the local government thought when it declared an emergency, and frustrations about an absent mayor.

Later, we'll peer into another reporter's notebook as I sit down with KUNM█s, Bryce Dix to learn about the local impact of the Trump administration weakening protections for endangered and threatened species.

But first, the state central committees for both the Democratic and Republican parties are meeting tomorrow, Saturday, July 25th, and both were set to make important votes.

The Democrats need to elect a new nominee for lieutenant governor, and that vote will happen.

The Republicans, however, who were slated to elect a party chair now won't be.

The GOP committee failed to get enough people to register for that meeting to make quorum.

This also happened last month amid rumblings of boycotting the meeting over infighting about the direction of the party, with a notable north south split.

We wanted to break down that conflict this week ahead of the scheduled vote, so I spoke with former House candidate Zach Anaya, who initially put his name in the hat for chair before withdrawing and supporting Valencia County GOP Chair John Brenna.

Anaya has been outspoken about a geographical divide in the party, with what he calls a southern coalition, favoring former chair Amy Barela, who a judge ordered out of the post in May for violating party rules.

Anaya agreed to come on the show this week, but the southern New Mexico Barela supporters that we got Ahold of weren't willing to hash out this issue in the press.

Dona Ana County Republican Chair Janice Williams, for instance, wrote in an email, quote, these are internal party governance matters and I believe they are best worked through within the party's own process rather than in a public forum.

We heard similar from two others.

Then the vote was canceled, so the party is now expected to be without a chair through the November election.

We'll keep our eye on any developments and the door open for that conversation to take place here on in Focus.

With that, let's turn our attention to the Democratic Party, whose state Central Committee is set to begin voting tomorrow, this time for a replacement nominee for lieutenant governor.

Secretary of State Maggie Toulouse Oliver won the June primary election for the role in a landslide, but dropped out shortly after, citing unspecified health concerns.

Now it's up to the committee's members to decide who will be Deb Haalland's running mate.

To talk through how the process works and the candidates for the job is Democratic Party of New Mexico communications director Daniel Garcia and state Central Committee members Marty Chavez and Colton Dean.

>> Nash: Thank you all so much for being here on in Focus.

Daniel, I want to start with you.

This decision lies wholly in the hands of the State Central Committee of the Democratic Party.

So I think let's start there.

Who is the SCC?

Who are these members that are going to be voting?

>> Garcia: The state Central Committee or SCC, as we refer to them.

It's the roughly 500 member governing body of DPNM.

It consists of mostly, the majority of it are volunteers elected at the county level.

But additionally the SCC consists of county chairs and vice chairs, caucus chairs, some elected officials and party officers, and then a few vacancies appointed by the chair as they come up.

>> Nash: Okay.

And why do they get to make this decision?

>> Garcia: Well, the reason they make this decision is because it has to be the State Central Committee is required by state law that after the primary, when a vacancy for lieutenant governor opens up, it's up to either parties, regardless of which party it is.

The State Central Committee has to determine who fills that vacancy.

Hypothetically, if the Republicans had a vacancy for lieutenant governor.

State law would also require their State Central Committee to fill that vacancy.

>> Nash: Ok, So it's not a party specific, and it is part of the law of the land that this is the process -- >> Garcia: Correct, at this point in the election cycle, it has to happen that way.

>> Nash: Now, Marty, as a member of the state Central Committee yourself, how representative do you think it is of the voters of the party?

Would it be fair to say that this is a vote by party elites?

>> Chavez: Well, elites I would disagree with, but it certainly is the activist within the party.

And it's true of both the Republican and the Democratic Party.

So we're probably a little more present, paying attention activated.

But beyond that, I think it's very reflective of New Mexico.

>> Nash: And why would you disagree with the idea of elites?

>> Chavez: Well, elites connotes something different than the way I see the State Central Committee.

These are just New Mexicans, Democrats who are active in the governmental process, who worked the polls, who worked the elections.

They care.

>> Nash: Alright, Colton, would you agree with that?

>> Dean: Certainly, the SCC members are elected by their community, by the county central committees, which are basically formed by your neighborhood.

So you have to go to your neighbors and say, hey, I would like to be on County Central Committee.

And from there, you ask the broader county Central Committee members, I would like to be on SCC.

So it is a democratic process, kind of in between voting every 2 to 4 years and running for office yourself.

>> Nash: You don't have to necessarily be a high powered Democrat.

>> Dean: No.

You just have to know when the meetings are show up and raise your hand.

>> Nash: Now, this was the first election.

This primary election was the first one where independent voters could choose a Democratic ballot and weigh in on in this case, Lieutenant Governor, Colton, their voices will now not be heard in.

Who is going to replace Toulouse Oliver.

Do you think they should?

>> Dean: Well, we should definitely listen to those independents who did choose to have a Democratic ballot.

And that's part of what the SCC does by being in touch with the community.

I'm talking to friends who are independents who were actually able to participate, who do feel a little like, hey, this process has now kind of changed a little bit, but that is part of having the community speak to us and relating what their will is.

Unfortunately, the process doesn't include them in this situation -- >> Nash: Because it is an internal party vote.

>> Dean: Yeah.

>> Nash: Yeah, all right.

Well, Daniel, whoever wins the nomination will be candidate for governor Deb Holland's running mate.

She has endorsed Stephanie Garcia Richard for the job.

Does her doing that make this basically a done deal?

>> Garcia: No.

Absolutely not.

Many different political figures or elected officials, political groups like we're talking to a political figure and a a leader of a political group today actually have made endorsement.

So it's very normal, but it's up to the individual members of the SCC to decide if that will factor into their individual decision.

And as the top of our Democratic statewide ticket this year, some SCC members may be interested to know what Deb thinks.

Some, you know, may choose not to factor that in quite as much, so it's up to them completely.

>> Nash: Well, Marty, before we get into why you have endorsed Stephanie Garcia Richard as well, what were the reasons that Deb Haaland gave for her endorsement?

>> Chavez: Well, I think she clearly thinks that she's the best additive to the ticket.

And let's not lose sight of what this is all about.

This is about winning in November, because the consequences of a Republican governor with the current incumbent in the white House would be devastating for New Mexico.

So she's focused on how do we win in November.

And I think she believes, and I agree with her, that secretary commissioner is the most qualified to do that job.

>> Nash: And why?

>> Garcia: Well, she's won two statewide elections.

She's the state land commissioner.

She was a very successful very productive state representative.

And, you know, she fits the bill.

She, I think she is very much reflective of the broader politics of the Democratic Party in New Mexico and, frankly, the broader politics of New Mexicans.

>> Nash: Colton, your Progressive Caucus has endorsed Harold Pope for the nomination.

How do you feel about Haaland weighing in?

>> Dean: It does seem, from the perspective of our caucus, a little out of place, especially as Deb was once DPNM chair -- >> Nash: The Democratic Party chair.

>> Dean: Yeah, about ten years ago.

We kind of feel that this was an opportunity for us to again discuss with our friends who were independents and get their input on it.

And for her to step in was a little bit like, wait, I thought this was going to be our decision -- >> Nash: Do you think it'll have a lot of influence.

>> Nash: It definitely has influence, as many people have some more influence than others.

We in the Adelante Caucus, we feel that we wanted to reach out and elevate the voices of the community a little bit more and tell people about how the SCC works and this kind of kind of undercut a little bit.

>> Nash: Okay, Daniel, this isn't an in-person meeting.

So to give folks a sense of how the voting will go down, will you explain that process?

>> Garcia: Yeah.

On July 25th, upon adjournment of the meeting, the voting will open.

It'll stay open for four days.

It will be conducted by an electronic ballot.

And then we will have the, votin will close on the 29th, and then we will announce the results on the 30th.

>> Nash: Okay.

>> Garcia: And it is a point based, ranked choice style vote.

>> Nash: And why not have everybody gather and and vote in person?

>> Garcia: Oh largely accessibility.

Yeah.

We're a very large state.

We have a lot of people who participate from rural communities, every corner of the state.

It really is an accessibility and modernization.

>> Nash: Okay, in terms of that first question I asked you about who is in the SCC.

Is it primarily focused on some of the metro areas in the city centers, or you're saying it does have solid representation of the entire state?

>> Garcia: Oh, absolutely.

It does have very solid representation of the entire state.

We've actually focused on building up county parties across the state.

Just last week, we actually reestablished the Democratic Party of Harding County.

We had a meeting with about five people in a county of 600 people altogether.

So we found that to be a great success.

And those are that county chair and that county vice chair can now participate and this election and represent Harding County.

>> Nash: Okay.

Now, Colton, you plan to vote for Pope on behalf of your caucus and -- >> Dean: Yes, our caucus.

My SEC vote is one of Adelante SCC votes.

Each caucus gets two SCC votes.

And we as a caucus voted to support Pope.

>> Nash: Right.

So your vote is on behalf of your caucus, not necessarily you as an individual.

>> Dean: That's correct.

>> Nash: Well, he was the only person to actually run for the nomination for lieutenant governor, who's now running again.

That included traveling across the state, collecting signatures, fundraising, the senator, the senator Pope has argued that that experience should make him a frontrunner in this now internal party race.

Does it and should it?

>> Dean: Well, I think what makes Senator Pope a frontrunner is that he does show up.

Anyone who goes to a Democratic Party event.

Senator Pope is there almost all the time.

It's actually strange when you don't see him.

So we feel that he does the work to show up, and he shows up not just for his district as a state senator, but for other constituents.

There have been many times I've reached out to him on issues and he'll text back.

He'll call back, give us feedback.

He has come to Adelante meetings on zoom and given his perspectives on the legislative session afterwards and what bill's had a chance, what bill's had trouble.

So he's always provided good feedback.

And I think that is a very good quality.

And what led to him having frontrunner ability to get to know people, develop relationships.

>> Nash: Do you think because I've seen this conversation publicly that do you think that the fact that he ran and was on the ballot and got votes in the primary is an advantage to him now?

>> Dean: Oh, certainly.

He's already laid quite a lot of ground game.

He has developed relationships throughout the state and developed a voting base that already exists, that those voters will be learning about the SCC and be like, how do I tell my SCC neighbor, I want you to support the person that I already voted for?

>> Nash: Marty, what are your thoughts on what advantage if any, having ran in the election for lieutenant governor gives to Harold Pope?

>> Chavez: Well, I think it's important to say that Deb Haaland isn█t telling the SCC how they should vote.

She's saying who she supports.

And she went through a very strong process.

She interviewed all the people that were aspirants for that and then made her decision.

I think, and I'm a little bit mystified sometimes when people say, well, everyone in New Mexico should have an opinion on who should be the light gov, but not the nominee, not the leader of our party.

And that's who Deb Haaland is.

I mean, she won 73% of the vote.

That's the biggest landslide in a Democratic primary in an open race that I've ever witnessed in my life - >> Nash: Well Toulouse Oliver Got 80%.

>> Chavez: Yeah.

No, that's right there.

And so I think that, you know, Stephanie Garcia Richard is not a stranger to the Democratic Party.

She is our state land officer.

She's a former state representative.

She's been to respectfully, probably more meetings of the state Central Committee than Senator Pope.

Senator Pope's a good man.

There's no question about that.

I'm not here to disrespect him.

I just think she is the strongest candidate.

She has won two statewide elections -- >> Nash: And what does that say about her?

What strength does that give her in going into November?

>> Chavez: Well, and I've run statewide before and it's really hard.

And I have tremendous respect for anybody, regardless of their party that's willing to put themselves out like that.

But it's hard work, it's rigorous, and it is about relationships.

And she has that statewide network of relationships, not just from the legislature, but from having been a statewide candidate, a successful candidate, by the way.

And I think her paired with Deb Haaland makes an incredibly strong ticket.

Gives us the best chances as Democrats and as New Mexicans to win in November.

>> Nash: Okay, Colton, you've talked about how your caucus has endorsed Harold Pope.

Why?

How are his policies aligned with your platform with Adelante Progressive Caucus?

>> Dean: Well, initially, Senator Pope flipped a Republican district.

So that shows that he has the ability to bring growth to the Democratic Party.

But then, as he's been in office, just him listening to the community and supporting certain bills, sometimes alone, has demonstrated that his values reflect ours.

>> Nash: What are those values?

>> Dean: Certainly environment is a major issue.

He has supported bills that would also give right to repair, also limiting corporations -- >> Nash: Right to repair meaning to repair and devise?

>> Dean: Yes.

Which is a growing national issue of, you know, when you have a thing that is broken, but only -- >> Nash: You don't have to throw it out and buy a new one?

>> Dean: Yeah.

There should be the ability for independent people to learn how to repair and service stuff, but also limiting corporations and hedge funds from buying single family homes.

He supported bills that may not have gotten traction, but that shows that he's willing to make the attempt.

And certainly on environmental bills.

He has joined support with other legislators in helping with that.

>> Nash: At the same time, Stephanie Garcia Richard is the land commissioner.

So how does does Harold Pope's positions on environmentalism differ from hers, or do you see them as more progressive?

>> Nash: I see that he has, you know, worked to put this into law because that's where the rubber meets the road, is passing bills, passing laws, and talking to the community directly.

And he has demonstrated that and also brought feedback back to our caucus when we said, hey, why?

We've asked him point blank why didn't this pass?

And he says, we just we just couldn't get the support.

You know, he's been and he's been very honest and frank about what he's had to deal with in the legislature.

>> Nash: Thougghts on that Marty?

>> Chavez: No, he's got great environmental credentials.

So does Stephanie Garcia Richard.

And frankly, on those issues, I don't see much distinction between the two.

I will say this, Stephanie came out just last week and said to Jupiter, you want to have that data processing center.

You're going to have to come through me and you're not going to -- >> Nash: And this is Project Jupiter, the hyperscale -- >> Chavez: Yes, you're not going to use state resources.

When Donald Trump wanted to build the wall, the border wall on state land.

She said, not while I'm the land commissioner.

So she's a strong person, she█ll be a strong advocate.

>> Nash: How does she stack up to Toulouse Oliver, who obviously, the voters were in large support of getting 80% of the vote in the primary.

>> Chavez: Well, I don't know about Maggie.

You know, she went to Highland High School, so that's kind of a negative in her part.

No, she's wonderful.

And we all wish her the very best in addressing whatever it is that led her to to withdraw.

I think that all of these candidates are good strong Democrats, good, strong progressive credentials.

>> Nash: Do you have thoughts on Pope as compared to Toulouse Oliver?

And if folks were in large support of Toulouse Oliver how Harold Pope stacks up and how they should consider that?

>> Dean: Well, I think, you know I consider myself a friend of Maggie.

You know, I was said that, you know, whatever she's had to, whatever reasons led to her stepping down, but, you know, and wish her the very best.

But I think part of what makes a good candidate to fill in the vacancy is that he has experience in the state Senate.

The lieutenant governor's first job is to provide over the state Senate -- preside over the state Senate, and that will, he's developed those relationships with the other state senators.

And you know where Maggie came from, Secretary of state and having direct relationships, he'll have the same direct relationships.

>> Nash: Now, we've talked a lot about Harold Pope and Stephanie Garcia Richard, these are pretty clearly the two frontrunners for the position.

But they're not the only two people who are running.

Daniel, can you talk about who else is on the ballot for the SCC to consider?

>> Garcia: Sure.

There's two other candidates, Tony Pinedo and Geoffrey Leuhring.

>> Nash: And what do we know about them?

>> Garcia: Not quite as much, but Tony Pinedo has been an active Democrat for years from western New Mexico.

She's a registered nurse.

And Jeffrey Leuhring is just recently getting a little bit more involved in the process by jumping into the race.

So we're glad to see him in the race, all of them.

>> Nash: How does the Democratic Party communicate?

Who█s on the ballot to the SCC members?

Is this already kind of in?

Do they already know who they're considering and how did you communicate that?

>> Garcia: Absolutely.

We update our state central Committee very regularly by email mostly, but also we're very proactive in responding to any inquiries they may have.

So that's a big part of what we do in our party building and party affairs at DPNM.

>> Nash: Well, Colton and Marty, as SCC members, what do you know about these candidates?

Are you familiar with them?

Are they in the running in your perspective?

>>Dean: Unfortunately, I haven't heard much about them, which, you know, I wish, you know, we, as in the caucus, could have learned a little bit more.

This situation is a unique situation that does allow anyone the opportunity to jump in to the race for the second most powerful person in New Mexico, even if they just want to express certain issues, you know, to have the spotlight for a few minutes and say, here are what I think is important.

The what needs to be considered -- >> Nash: Because rather than asking for the votes of the entire state, they're asking for the votes of several hundred people in the SCC.

So maybe lower barriers to access in order to to get your name in the hat.

>> Dean: Certainly.

But, you know, I haven't seen, you know, regular people may not have that funding or that advertising infrastructure, but I haven't received any phone calls from either one, which seems to be that would be the minimum thing that someone coming off the street could do.

And I don't know if they've had access to that information of the SCC to make that effort, >> Garcia: If I may, Nash Yeah, we do provide the state Central Committee list to any of the candidates.

Also, we did send out candidate statements from all four of the candidates to the state Central Committee.

And just this last weekend, actually, DPNM hosted a virtual forum where all four candidates partook and answered the same questions.

And then all of the state Central Committee was invited to view.

And then we actually posted it on our website and sent it directly to them after the form as well.

So, yeah.

>> Nash: Thanks for clarifying that.

>> Chavez: Colton makes a good point.

You know, technology and campaigns changes, but there's still some fundamentals.

You got to ask people for your vote.

And all of these candidates have cell phones.

There's only 500 or so members of the state Central Committee.

Pick up the phone.

I've not heard from anybody except for Stephanie Garcia Richards.

Actually, Senator Pope, I would welcome his call.

But that's important.

If people don't focus enough or have the wherewithal to just pick up the phone and say, how can I get your vote?

That's important.

That's that communicates something.

All right.

>> Nash: All right.

And a four day vote online.

Daniel, when will our viewers know who is going to be on the ticket with Deb Haaland as lieutenant governor nominee.

>> Garcia: Results will be announced on July 30th.

>> Nash: And online, or how do you get the word out?

>> Garcia: We'll probably send a news release first, and then the news will break.

And roughly probably the same time that happens, we'll probably post on social media and just let the word spread organically that way.

>> Nash: Sounds good.

We'll keep our viewers updated as well.

Thank you all so much for having a conversation about this.

Thank you.

>> Garcia: Thanks, Nash.

>> Chavez: Certainly.

>> Dix: If you cut down a tree, that tree takes a very long time to come back.

And some would argue even if you slightly modify a habitat, it's, you know, past the point of no return, right?

So if this rule is deemed to move forward in September, we could see if there's appetite for it.

And industry wants to go in and do it.

We could see some severe degradation of habitat.

>> Nash: The US Interior Department has taken another step towards allowing new oil and gas development to restart in the area around Chaco Culture National Historical Park in northwestern New Mexico.

The agency last week opened two weeks of public comments on its environmental assessment of the proposal to revoke a ten mile buffer zone around the park, closed to new oil and gas leases.

The withdrawal, as it's called, was established in 2023 under former interior secretary and now candidate for New Mexico Governor Deb Haaland's leadership.

You may remember back in March that the federal government accepted just a week's worth of public comments on its initial proposal to either shrink or do away with the 20 year withdrawal.

Shortly after that, I spoke with New Mexico Congresswoman Teresa Leger Fernandez, who represents the area.

>> Fernandez: This is incredibly destructive, what they are proposing, and that's why I think so many of us have opposed it, because when you destroy one of the 4700 sites that are in that ten mile zone, it's irreplaceable.

>> Nash: The region served as a center of Ancestral Puebloan culture and the origin of some Navajo clans.

It features ancient ruins and roads, and remains a sacred site for many tribal communities.

Back in April, Leger Fernandez anticipated this current round of public comment would open this summer.

>> Fernandez: On my end and I think in the public's end, New Mexicans need to make sure that their voices are heard.

I love hearing from my constituents.

Is this important to you?

Do you care what you want to do?

But we also recognize that this landscape, it's not like it's something old and it's a Unesco World Heritage site.

And that that's oh, it's something from a long time ago.

This landscape is still used for cultural purposes today.

>> Nash: While the Pueblos support the buffer zone, the Navajo Nation has opposed it, applauding the proposal to allow drilling in the surrounding area, where more than 1000 of its citizens have allotted land and mineral rights that they rely on for income.

>> Hesuse: I am Delora Hesuse, a citizen of the Navajo Nation Nageezi Chapter.

My chapter is in the greater Chaco region and near the Chaco Culture National Historic Park.

The Navajo Nation and the Alattis now are united in their opposition of any buffer zone around the park.

These lands were given to our great great grandparents in exchange for citizenship.

We have rights as citizens, landowners to develop our lands for oil and gas as we see fit.

This is a steadfast property right that sustains their livelihoods and way of life.

>> Nash: Navajo Nation President Buu Nygren recently reiterated his position in a statement, saying, quote, zero buffer zone is my stance.

Everything was good before this started and the local chapters and communities deserve to be respected.

Deb Haaland, who's Laguna Pueblo, wrote on social media last week, quote, Chaco deserves lasting protection for tribal nations, for New Mexico and for future generations.

I spoke with her about the protections in the lead up to the primary election for governor.

>> Haaland: There are places to drill a mine.

There are places not to drill in mine.

Right?

Chaco isn't one of those places.

And so we recognize I mean, look, when I was secretary of the interior, we really consolidated the footprint of oil and gas, you know, consolidated it, and yet we still were producing oil and gas.

We're still moving those permits forward.

>> Nash: Haaland█s competitor in the race for New Mexico governor, Republican candidate Greg Hull, did not respond to our request for comment on the proposal by air time.

We also asked you what you thought on our social media pages.

Several of you cited the sacredness of the land as central to your opposition to the proposal that included Cathy Bryson, who wrote, quote, there should be no drilling, no mineral extraction.

This land is sacred.

Don't touch it.

Others had questions.

David Mcinnis asked, quote, Chaco Canyon National Historical Park is protected by an act of Congress and the National Park Service.

Why does a ten mile radius of the park also need protection?

Others were clear in their support to remove the buffer.

Don Mabry chimed in with, quote, drill, baby, drill.

But as viewer James Kovach reminded folks, be sure to tell the Department of the interior not just a comment section and we hope you will.

Public comment on the proposal to revoke the buffer zone is open until next Wednesday, July 29th.

New Mexico's congressional delegation this week requested to be extended to 90 days, but so far that deadline remains the same.

To submit a comment and review the draft environmental assessment, head to the Bureau of Land Management█s National NEPA register.

Let's now turn our attention to Estancia, New Mexico, where late last month, local officials declared a water emergency with the town's storage tanks sitting dangerously close to empty.

On top of that, Estancia has had to navigate this crisis without its mayor, who went on leave back in April.

Editor and reporter Todd Brogowski has been watching this water and political dilemma closely over the Mountaineer Dispatch.

I spoke with him about what he uncovered around how bad things actually got and where they stand now.

>> Nash: Todd, welcome to New Mexico in Focus.

Thanks for being here.

>> Brogowski: Thank you for having me.

>> Nash: So let's start by catching folks up with what you've learned over the past few weeks about Estancia water situation, starting with storage.

So how much water did the town have when the trustees declared an emergency late last month?

>> Brogowski: So on June 25th, when they declared their state of emergency with respect to water, they had 9% of their water storage capacity available to them.

So that's roughly 79,000 gallons of water that they had.

>> Nash: So tanks were nearing empty.

>> Brogowski: That's correct.

>> Nash: And what about water usage?

You're reporting uncovered that the amount that trustees were relying on was outdated information from 2012, and that the amount of water that was actually being used made the situation actually quite a bit worse.

So what was the discrepancy there?

>> Brogowski: So they were using a 2020 study by Bohannan Houston there engineering firm that cited 2012 that said that they were only basically using 254,000 gallons of water.

Their actual usage data from their billing records show that they were using 620,000 gallons per day.

So what they said was a three day amount of water left was actually closer to three hours.

>> Nash: They had three hours of water left when they declared that emergency.

>> Brogowski: That's correct.

>> Nash: And consumption was up considerably.

Any sense of why?

>> Brogowski: So the way water usage breaks down in Estancia, 85.5% of the town's water usage is used by commercial customers.

And so we're talking in a small town like Estancia of two gas stations, a restaurant, a laundromat, and a Dollar General and core civics facility used by the federal government and county government for detainees and prisoners.

>> Nash: Right.

So there's a large immigrant prison in the area that, you know, if we're looking at 85% of the water is being used by commercial users, it's not going to be these small, these small mom and pop shops necessarily.

Do you know how much of that 85% core civic is using?

>> Brogowski: No.

That's a matter of contention with the town.

I've requested via IPRA the Inspection of Public Records Act, the town's data concerning core civics consumption.

I have not gotten that data from the town.

Currently, my publication and the town are in a long standing dispute since February of this year regarding their production of documents pursuant to New Mexico state law.

>> Nash: Okay, so no no clear sense of how much of that is being used by courses.

Likely quite a bit.

The Board of Trustees, as you mentioned, late last month, declared a water emergency.

What did that declaration afford them?

What did it do?

>> Brogowski: That declaration afforded them access to truck and water to obtain state funds from the New Mexico Water Trust Board to drill a new well.

So while they're in the process of planning for and soon to break ground on this new while they've been trucking in 5 to 6 truckloads of water a day >> Nash: So that three hours has expanded since then.

Any sense of where that water is coming from?

>> Brogowski: They have, as part of an emergency management plan, designated provider that has been shipping in water for them.

>> Nash: Okay.

And any natural increase to the water or it's just this these truckloads, >> Brogowski: They have repaired the wells that was damaged, and they have brought in some naturally derived water from the Estancia Valley aquifer.

>> Nash: Okay.

Let's talk about the human impact of this.

How is this affecting the residents of Estancia?

>> Brogowski: It has a very, very substantial impact on the residents, starting with the school children of the this.

We're about to go back to school in a few weeks.

And the Superintendent of schools, Doctor Cindy Sims, has written a letter to the board of trustees indicating her concerns that without sufficient water, it would not be possible to run the school through an ordinary day because water is necessary under both the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Rehabilitation Act, which apply to all schools throughout the country.

>> Nash: In your reporting, I saw they also have summer school.

That's that's been in session during this emergency.

And there were concerns not only about toilets that weren't sufficiently flushing because of low water, but also that they had some concerns around feeding the kids because of standards for dishwashing and that they need to get this water up to temperature.

Are those issues persisting and and could they persist into the fall?

>> Brogowski: Those issues persisted until they started the water deliveries.

I have no information that they continued after those.

But if Estancia does suffer another issue, either mechanical with the wells and pumping system, or with the availability of water and the aquifers, it could very easily resume.

And that becomes a sanitation and hygiene issue for the children.

>> Nash: Okay.

Another impacts that are happening locally.

>> Brogowski: Local businesses have expressed concerns that they're not able to deliver water pressure to their customers.

There's a mobile home park where not only are they addressing this issue, where they're not getting adequate water pressure for their customers, but also they're getting exorbitant bills for the water that they are receiving.

>> Nash: Why is it so pricy?

>> Brogowski: That's a great question.

>> Nash: Okay.

That customer claimed to have a $900 monthly bill for their mobile home park of, I believe, 54 units.

So that's a pretty expensive bill.

>> Nash: Now, what about the people who are imprisoned at the Torrance County Detention Facility?

How is this impacting them?

I believe that at one point, the trustees cut off all water to core civic.

They've been kind of easing it back to to 60 and then 100.

What is it?

What's the unit they >> Brogowski: they're using?

Yeah.

They cut it back to 60 gallons per minute availability of water for TCF, which is a core civic facility.

And core civic itself has been shipping in water to supplement the amount of water they're able to get from the town.

Detainees at the facility, specifically the detainees there for ICE, are reporting that the water that they are receiving is causing skin problems, irritation, that sort of thing.

>> Nash: Any sense of what water that is.

>> Brogowski: No information is available on that.

>> Nash: Okay or how much Core Sivic is supplementing the water that they now are receiving from Estancia?

Because if they're at 100 gallons a minute, I believe you've reported that 180 gallons a minute, it would be at their full capacity, so they likely are supplementing it.

No sense of how much or from where.

>> Brogowski: That's correct.

And no information as to the treatments that the water goes through before it gets to the detainees.

>> Nash: Okay.

Now, the Estancia Board of Trustees more recently has approved an action plan around this water crisis.

They assured the public that there would be a letter to explain that plan.

Have you seen the letter?

And what do we know about what the plan entails?

>> Brogowski: Sure.

So on July 7th, they said they had an action plan, and they said they were going to include that plan with customer billing documents that were sent out on a monthly basis and on the town's website.

There is no information that they've posted that letter anywhere.

As of last night, I have not seen it.

>> Nash: Okay.

And we're talking here Thursday morning.

So without the letter, any idea of what the action plan is or what they're what they're hoping to do?

>> Brogowski: What I, I do know they received a $4.9 million grant from the New Mexico Water Trust Board, and that's going to be to drill a new well for the town of Estancia.

That is something they have been planning to build since 2016, but never have done so.

>> Nash: What was the hold?

That's a that's a decade.

That's ten years.

>> Brogowski: Right.

they allege that the holdup is due to funding >> Nash: a ten year holdup, due to just not being able to access what grant funding?

>> Brogowski: It's unclear.

There certainly have been other projects done in the town that have used similar amounts of funding.

So it may be a question of was the money prioritized properly?

Was the money given to them properly?

It's unknown.

>> Nash: Okay, well, this isn't actually a new problem for Estancia.

This is the third straight summer that they have had some version of a water crisis.

Why does this keep happening?

I mean, maybe you kind of answered it around them.

Not prioritizing or not at least fulfilling getting this well done for ten years.

But is there a sense of assessing what is going on and how to prevent it?

>> Brogowski: So I haven't witnessed any effort by the Board of Trustees to conduct a sort of after action review of what's going on.

There's no questions being raised during meetings that I have heard where and obviously executive sessions are in private, but where the board is asking.

Okay, what have we done wrong here and in past similar crises?

What do we need to improve and what are we doing right?

And so I think that that something viewers would be interested, especially Estancia residents, and seeing them do and take action based on such a review, >> Nash: Something I was kind of taken aback by in your reporting is while those conversations aren't happening, a conversation that has been happening quite a bit has been around.

Use of the municipal pool and a pool cover.

You're seeing that that has actually taken up a lot of space.

In these meetings.

>> Brogowski: Yes, including on the date of the water emergency and three Board of trustees meeting in Estancia since then.

That has been a topic of discussion that the trustees and the mayor pro tem very strongly wish to open the municipal pool before the end of the summer.

And with respect to the water, the pool cover, they just spent $30,000 on this.

>> Nash: Now, throughout this emergency, and even before, Estancia has been without its mayor, who's been on a leave of absence since April.

Ronald Riley, the area state representative, Stephanie Lord, has accused him of abandoning his office, saying that she can't get a hold of him.

What to date what steps have the trustees taken around there missing there?

>> Brogowski: Right.

So after the mayor left for medical reasons sometime in April, the board of trustees retained legal counsel from Stelzer law, and they're turning on winters has advised them of three methods one under the missile Code and two under state law for the removal of the mayor, largely based on abandonment reasons.

And they've directed her to pursue two state law remedies that would have the town pushed to the local district attorney and the attorney General's office request for relief.

Under the local Government Official Removals Act.

But it's a challenging and unusual process because although these are civil matters, there's no criminal conduct alleged at the present time.

Although these civil matters, the grand jury gets involved, which is very rare in civil cases.

>> Nash: Intresting well, what are you watching for next?

What?

What's what?

What are the potential next steps, including that they have this kind of rotating cast of characters, a pro tem mayor that's been rotating to the trustees.

>> Brogowski: That's correct.

For the last few months since the departure of Mayor Ronald Riley, Board of Trustees member Albert Lovato has been acting as mayor pro tem, as a full mayor in that capacity, and due to his personal concerns, he's rotating the mayor pro tem role to Trustee Amy May.

And so their plan is to rotate through the Board of Trustees, giving each of them the opportunity to kind of take it their work responsibilities and stress levels down as they go through because they didn't plan on becoming mayor, obviously.

>> Nash: Right.

And then any sense of this process to remove the mayor?

And is there a timeline?

>> Brogowski: There's no official timeline.

And obviously in court cases there's always delays and scheduling matters.

So now, >> Nash: Todd, thanks so much for your time and for breaking all of your reporting down.

Really appreciate it.

>> Brogowski: My pleasure.

Thank you.

One thing before I go, I just wanted to briefly offer my condolences to the family of Gail Jones.

She's the mayor pro tem of nearby Mountain Air who passed away this week.

I learned yesterday and was a local fixture not only in mountain air, but also in Bosque Farms.

Very wonderful woman, excellent leadership and committed to her community and so she'll be dearly missed.

>> Nash: Thank you for that.

>> Brogowski: Thank you.

>> Nash: Thanks again to Todd Brogowski for that conversation on the developing situation in Estancia.

So for more than 50 years, the Endangered Species Act has protected at risk animals and their habitats from harm.

That's now set to change under a new Trump administration rule.

KUNM reporter Bryce Dix has had his eye on the potential impacts of the rule here in New Mexico, and he joins us this week to explain what it could mean for logging in the state and the threatened Mexican spotted owl.

>> Nash: Bryce, welcome to New Mexico in Focus.

Thanks for being here.

>> Dix: Appreciate it the invite >> Nash: It█s nice to see you.

So let's start with the recent change to the Endangered Species Act under the Trump administration.

What is the Interior Department's new rule?

>> Dix: So the Interior Departme new rule is a part of a suite of changes that are coming down through executive agencies, under the executive to President Donald Trump.

This one rule in particular would change one definition of one four letter word in the Endangered Species Act, and that one four letter word is harm.

The first part of this definition is, you know, kind of the obvious definition.

You would think of harm.

So think if you shot a bald eagle and killed it, or you trapped a Mexican gray wolf-- >> Nash: physically injuring the animal... >> Dix: physically injuring it, or even taking animals, right?

So if you went into the Rio Grande and took silvery minnows and put them in your personal aquarium, that is defined as harm under the Endangered Species Act.

Now, there's another part of this definition that's kind of at the crux of this issue with this rule change.

And that's the damaging or modification of habitat.

And with this new rule under the Interior Department, no longer will destruction of habitat be included in the definition of harm under the Endangered Species Act.

>> Nash: Okay, so only physically injuring or taking the animal, not having to do with its ecosystem, its habitat, where it lives.

>> Dix: Correct.

>> Nash: All right.

Well, the previous interpretation, the one that had both, it was upheld by the Supreme Court back in 1994.

So why change it now and why is it able to be changed at all?

>> Dix: Well, as I kind of mentioned, this is a change through and we're going to kind of get into some political science theory.

But these are rule changes that are happening in executive branch agencies.

Right.

So they have say in what rules governance and regulate and or how they approach the endangered species.

>> Nash: Even so, judiciary at one point, you know, years ago said this this interpretation is is accurate, is right?

>> Dix: Well, I think the legality of this rule change is up in the air.

So conservationists have gone to the courts immediately and said, “we're not too sure about the legality of what we're doing here.” You mentioned the Supreme Court decision.

This happened in the early 90s, and it was a bunch of timber logging operators in the Pacific Northwest who were arguing, “hey, because of the large swath of protections for species up here, we're not able to do the logging that we want to do, and that is causing us economic and undue harm.” The Supreme Court said, no, this is not what Congress meant for the Endangered Species Act, and harm does include the degradation or damaging of habitat.

>> Nash: Okay, so earlier this month, the Trump administration used this new rule to strip away habitat protections for threatened and endangered species.

Let's talk about the threatened Mexican spotted owl.

That is an animal that you used as a key example of how this new rule could show up locally here in New Mexico.

So tell us about that.

What's it like?

Where does it live?

>> Dix: Well, the Mexican spotted owl.

It was listed in the early 1990s, ironically because of threats from the timber industry.

Also, some questionable forest management practices and huge standalone fires that were happening here in the southwest.

The bird, as you can kind of see here from this picture, it's beautiful.

And what makes this bird really unique is it doesn't have the yellowish or maybe white eyes that a typical owl has in your, in your backyard or in your neighborhood has these deep, large, dark eyes.

And where it lives, as you can kind of understand from the name, the Mexican spotted owl has a very southern range here in the US, specifically in the southwest.

There's portions in Mexico, and here in New Mexico you can find Mexican spotted owl pretty much everywhere across our national forests and our forest systems in particular.

Down south, there is a significant portion in the Lincoln National Forest in the Sacramento Mountains.

>> Nash: And how was the previous definition of harm used to protect the cell?

>> Dix: Because the Mexican spotted owl was listed as threatened and still is listed as threatened.

It got the same protections as endangered species, so it was protected under both... the historical definition of harm, which meant the degradation of habitat and also the physical harm.

Now, there has been some developments over history that have happened.

So for example, in 2019, there was this lawsuit by a conservationist organization that said, “Hey, we don't think the federal government is monitoring the Mexican spotted owl population correctly.” A judge in 2019 agreed, and they issued this really broad kind of stop order for all national forests here in New Mexico.

That said, “you can't do any thinning or prescribed burning until we get this figured out.” Now, that was interpreted as very broad by the Forest Service.

They went back to the judge and got that hashed out so they can narrow the order so they can actually do thinning and prescribed burning projects.

So it has large swaths of protections, much like an endangered species.

>>Nash: Okay.

And for your story for KUNM, you spoke with Brian Bird, a conservationist with Defenders of Wildlife, who called the Mexican spotted owl a “lightning rod.” How so?

>>> Dix: We have numbers that su from the National Park Service that their numbers are declining around 9% in the 90s.

And even in the future, in the next 50 years, we could see the Mexican spotted owls population decline, a quarter or even half of its current population.

So they're pointing to this bird and its presence in these forests and saying, we need to stop these operations and be more thoughtful of how we're going to approach clear cutting trees, or prescribed burning or thinning or logging in specific areas.

>> Nash: And how did bird, whose last name all mentioned, is perfect for the work that he does?

The conservation is what did he have to say about this recent change?

>> Dix: Well, so he... essentially said this change kneecaps the Endangered Species Act.

He's very fearful that with this new definition of harm, there really isn't a point to the endangered species at all.

Really, the point of the Endangered Species Act is to preserve and protect the species that might go extinct.

I mean, we have scientific study after scientific study, research paper after research paper that suggests even if you damage or even modify a habitat of a common animal, much less threatening an endangered species, that it has severe consequences, so that can change the way that they shelter, right?

So if you clear cut a huge forest where bald eagle is, where are they going to shelter?

Where are they going to perch up and try to scan the forest floor for rats or mice that they can feed on.

It can take away their food sources I just mentioned there, or even a watering source.

>> Nash: It becomes like a domino effect >> Dix: Yeah, it becomes a domino effect.

And it also can affect breeding, right?

So if you clear cut the forest and there's no habitat there for these animals to be, that forces them out and that makes mating much, that much harder.

>> Nash: Okay, well, you also spoke with Republican State Representative Harlan Vincent, who has a large Mexican spotted owl population in his reader's area district.

He told you that owl has been weaponized.

What was his argument?

>> Dix: Well, I think this goes back to what I was saying about what Brian Bird was telling me in the rhetoric that's been used.

And on the other side of this coin is industry.

As I mentioned before, an indust has long said since the... Mexican spotted owl was listed as threatened, they█ve been saying, “Look, we go into an area where we're supposed to... I have a permit for some logging or I'm supposed to be thinning it for a certain project.” If there's a Mexican spotted owl there, they have to drop everything, right?

And they have to really think about, “okay, what are the consequences of our actions?

Are we at legal liability here” And so that's what he's pointing to when he says weaponized.

And what he thinks is conservationists exaggerate a little bit about the impacts of thinning and logging in.

>> Nash: is there any proof of that?

>> Nash: I mean, it's hard to say, right?

So I had the same question, and I went sleuthing around on the internet and found mapping data on vegetation treatment within the Lincoln National Forest.

You can see I mapped it out in my story at KUNM.org and I found that, no, it's not really stopping thinning or vegetation treatments.

We're talking chemical mastication, prescribed burning the whole lot.

Overall, since I believe 1981 was the first entry that I got all the way through 2026, there was over, not over, but close to 600,000 acres treated.

So, you know, there might be some areas that might be a little bit thicker and that might be what he's talking about, but it's hard to say for sure.

>> Nash: So that area has seen devastating wildfires in recent years.

The Rio docile area.

So are you saying, you know, the argument that this bird is preventing thinning and the lack of thinning is creating an atmosphere for these fires, these devastating fires to take place?

It's not that simple.

>> Nash: I don't think it's that simple.

Harlem.

Vincent.

When I called him up, he said 100%.

I think the Mexican spotted owl is what is contributing to these huge fires in my district.

And, I mean, Rudolph has been plagued with a bunch of fires and then subsequent flooding.

I mean, as of right now, the downs is still out of commission, a huge, huge economic boon for the area.

And I think they're looking for something that they can be like, “okay, this is the reason why this is happening.

So we can make some different policy choices.

So this doesn't happen in the future.” >> Nash: Rather then these huge systemic changes like climate change.

>> Dix: Correct.

Which is super hard to address.

Right.

>> Nash: Well, what plans have you heard about now that this rule has changed around the logging industry?

If it were able to get more green lights than it has?

What plans exist around that that you heard from Representative Vincent?

>> Dix: Yeah.

So Harlan Vincent, he is not shy about how he feels about the Mexican spotted owl.

And for one, he thinks this is the opportunity to open up a big sawmill in the Mescalero Sacramento Mountain Lincoln National Forest area.

“The Sawmill” He told me on the phone.

He's really colorful with his language.

And I think what he was mostly talking about was this kind of like post-World War Two housing boom type sawmill, where there was a lot of timber harvesting going on and there was just so much need for housing.

But, you know, at the end of the day, we don't know if there's an appetite for logging here in the first place, if it makes economical sense.

So that's also what he wants to do.

But I'm not too sure if that economically will make sense.

>> Nash: Well, what are you watching for next?

I mean, is this set in stone?

>> Dix: I don't think it's set in stone.

I mean, I did mention there is a challenge already filed in court.

Now, that said, this rule is supposed to go into effect in September.

We could see a judge say, “wait, wait, wait, hold on.

We're going to have to put everything on halt.

I'm going to issue an injunction here.

I'm not too sure about the legality of this role.

Granted the Supreme Court precedent that we've had in the past.

I'm not too sure if we can really let this go forward, because it could do a lot of harm, because at the end of the day, I don't need to tell folks.

I don't need to tell your viewers that if you cut down a tree, that tree takes a very long time to come back.

And and some would argue, even if you slightly modify a habitat, it's, you know, past the point of no return.

Right.

So if this rule is deemed to move forward in September, we could see if there's appetite for it.

And industry wants to go in and do it.

We could see some severe degradation of habitat regardless of what side you sit on.

The Mexican spotted owl debate.

>> Nash: Bryce, thanks so much for coming on to share your reporting with us.

>> Dix: Thanks for the invite appreciate you Nash.

>> Nash: Thanks to my former colleague Bryce Dix and to everyone else who contributed to the show.

Join us here next week for a conversation with former Las Cruces Mayor Ken Miyagishima following his announcement that he has ended his independent bid for governor.

For New Mexico PBS I'm Nash Jones.

Until then, stay focused.

Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by viewers like you.