>> Eric: WHEN THE NEWS HIT MONDAY IT WAS A SURPRISE, U OF M PRESIDENT JOAN GABEL ANNOUNCED SHE WAS LEAVING THE U TO ACCEPT A JOB AS CHANCELLOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH.

HER PITT SALARY WITH BONUSES COULD TOP A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

GABEL WILL HAVE THE SHORTEST TERM AS PRESIDENT SINCE KEN KILLER IN THE 1980S, GABEL HAS BEEN AT TIMES A CONTROVERSIAL LEADER PARTLY DUE TO HER ATTEMPT TO SERVE AS A PAID BOARD MEMBER FOR A HEALTH CARE COMPANY.

HERE TO TALK ABOUT GABEL AND WHAT THE U MAY BE LOOKING FOR IN ITS NEXT LEADER, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA REGENT DARRIN ROSHA, THE U OF M GRAD IS FINISHING HIS THIRD TERM AS A RECENTLIANT, HE'S AN ATTORNEY.

YOU RAISED THE PROBLEM WITH THE BOARD OF DIRECTORSHIP, WHAT DID YOU KNOW THAT OTHERS DIDN'T?

>> WELL, ONE CORRECTION.

>> Eric: OKAY, GO AHEAD.

>> SO I VOTED AGAINST THE SINGLE CANDIDATE BEING PUT FORWARD AS SHE WAS THE CANDIDATE BECAUSE I DIDN'T FEEL IT WAS ONSISTENT WITH STATE LAW, I DIDN'T FEEL IT WAS CONSISTENT WITH A GOOD PROCESS FOR THE UNIVERSITY.

I ALSO WAS NOT ONE OF THE SMALL NUMBER OF REGENTS THAT WERE PART OF THAT PROCESS, WHICH I THINK ALL THE REGENTS NEED TO BE PART OF THE SEARCH COMMITTEE, THAT'S THE POINT OF HAVING THE BOARD.

>> Eric: THAT'S SOURED THINGS MAYBE OFF THE BAT.

>> NOT SO MUCH WITH HER BUT I THEN WHEN SHE CAME THROUGH THE PROCESS AND SHE WAS PUT FORWARD HER CONTRACT WAS PUT FORWARD TO BE HIRED, I LOVE THE UNIVERSITY, I WANT HER TO SUCCEED OBVIOUSLY, SHE'S GOING TO BE HIRED, SO I, YOU KNOW, SUPPORTED ER AND TO LET HER OFF WITH A FULL VOTE OF SUPPORT FROM THE BOARD.

BUT THEN AFTER THAT SOME THINGS WERE HAPPENING WITH ADDITIONAL HIRES AND THE MASSIVE SALARY INCREASES AND THE NUMBER OF THINGS THAT WEREN'T REALLY CONSISTENT WITH THE MISSION OF THE UNIVERSITY THAT CAUSED ME TO BE A BIT CONCERNED.

AND FELT THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO RAISE THOSE CONCERNS EVEN IF IT WAS A CHALLENGING PUBLIC DIALOGUE.

>> Cathy: WHAT WAS THE STRAW THAT KIND OF BROKE THE CAMEL'S BACK FOR YOU?

WAS IT SECURIAN?

>> THAT WAS THE STRAW THAT LED ME TO MAKE ANY PUBLIC DIALOGUE OUTSIDE OF THE BOARD.

YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY WITHIN THE HALLS OF MCNAMARA THERE'S CONCERN AND ALLEGATIONS THAT YOU'RE BEING, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE BEING CONTENTIOUS, YOU'RE NOT BEING, YOU'RE NOT HOLDING IT TOGETHER AS A BOARD FOR THE UNIVERSITY'S SAKE.

IT'S LIKE, WELL, YOU KNOW, EVERY TIME I EVER HAD AN ISSUE I TRY WITH MY COLLEAGUES, I TRY THROUGH THE BOARD PROCESS AND THEN FINALLY WITH SECURIAN IT WAS SO REMARKABLE WE WEREN'T INFORMED OF IT UNTIL JUST A COUPLE DAYS BEFORE THE VOTE.

OBVIOUSLY I SPOKE OUT AGAINST IT AND VOTED AGAINST IT AND THEN HAD A CHANCE TO ACTUALLY CONDUCT SOME RESEARCH AND DETERMINED IT WAS IN CLEAR VIOLATION OF STATE LAW AND SHE HAD ACTED ON BEHALF -- OR SUPPORTED A CONTRACT WITH A CORPORATION WHICH THEN MAKES IT IMPROPER TO ACCEPT COMPENSATION.

>> Eric: IN HIND SIGHT DOES THIS LOOK LIKE A RESUME PADDER?

>> WELL, ONE OF THE CONCERNS I RAISED WITH THE SINGLE CANDIDATE ISSUE WAS FOR SOME REASON WE HAVE AN AVERSION TO PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND THIS COMMUNITY OR ARE FROM THIS COMMUNITY.

NOT THAT YOU HAVE TO BE FROM THIS COMMUNITY, BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU WONDER WHAT IS THE MOTIVATION FOR TAKING THIS POSITION.

OBVIOUSLY I'M A FIERCE PARTISAN FOR MINNESOTA AND THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.

AND SO THAT WAS A CONCERN AS, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT ANY SORT OF BACKGROUND WITH THIS INSTITUTION OR WITH THIS STATE WHAT WOULD BE THE INTEREST.

AND SO WANTING TO, TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE GOAL WAS THE LONG-TERM SUCCESS OF THE INSTITUTION AS OPPOSED TO AN INDIVIDUAL INTEREST.

AND, YOU KNOW, SHE AND I HAD THOSE CONVERSATIONS EARLY ON AND SHE SOUGHT TO REASSURE ME THAT HER INTEREST WAS THE UNIVERSITY.

BUT IT WAS JUST SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE GOING ON OVER THE COURSE OF HER TENURE HERE I FELT WERE SOMEWHAT INCONSISTENT, WELL, I FELT WERE INCONSISTENT WITH THE UNIVERSITY'S MISSION AND OBLIGATION TO THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA.

>> Cathy: DO YOU THINK THAT THE HIRING PROCESS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED GOING FORWARD?

ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE REGENTS.

THE REGENTS SIGNED OFF ON HER.

>> YEAH IT, STARTS WITH THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.

IT STARTS WITH WHO IS ELECTED TO THE BOARD.

AND WE'VE GOT A BYZANTINE PROCESS, A LOT OF STATES IT'S A GUBERNATORIAL APPOINTMENT.

I THINK THERE'S VALUE IN THAT BECAUSE GOVERNORS HAVE A REPUTATION TO UPHOLD AND THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE PICKING PEOPLE ENGAGED AND COMPETENT.

SOME ARE ELECTED BY THE PUBLIC, THOSE ARE DIFFICULT TO REALLY KNOW THE CANDIDATES I THINK.

OURS IT'S LAYER ON LAYER OF POLITICS THAT MAKE IT SOMEWHAT DISCOURAGING FOR GOOD PUBLIC SERVICE MINDED PEOPLE TO RUN.

BUT THE PROCESS, YOU KNOW, EVERY PROCESS FOR HIRING HAS BEEN DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT'S ULTIMATELY PUT IN PLACE BY THE LEADERSHIP OF THE BOARD OR THE BOARD AT THAT TIME.

THIS PARTICULAR ONE I WAS NOT A FAN OF AT ALL BECAUSE ONLY FIVE REGENTS WERE REALLY A PART OF IT BY THE TIME IT GOT TO THE FULL BOARD OF 12, 7 OF US REALLY ONLY HAD ONE NAME PUT N FRONT OF US SO THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTABILITY FROM THE PUBLIC BOARD IN THAT HIRING PROCESS.

- >> Eric: TIMING.

COMMITTEES ARE PUTTING TOGETHER THE HIGHER ED OMNIBUS BILL, I THINK YOU'RE LOOKING FOR 300 MILLION INCREASE FOR THE U OF M. IS IT A GOOD THING SHE'S GONE OR BAD THING OR EUTRAL?

>> THAT'S HARD TO SAY.

THE UNIVERSITY IS DEFINITELY NOT IN THE POSITION THAT IT HAS BEEN IN THE PAST WHERE MINNESOTA STATE AND THE UNIVERSITY WERE ESSENTIALLY SPLIT, YOU KNOW, MINNESOTA STATE WOULD HAVE MANY MORE STUDENTS BUT THE UNIVERSITY HAS RESEARCH AND OTHER OBLIGATIONS AS WELL.

SO THAT'S REALLY BEEN DIVIDED AND KIND OF WATCHED THAT GAP GROW OVER THE LAST SIX, SEVEN YEARS.

BUT THE UNIVERSITY HAD SOME DEPARTURES FROM ITS LOBBYING TEAM IN THIS PROCESS AND REALLY IT'S BEEN A CHALLENGE.

AND FORTUNATELY I THINK MOST LEGISLATORS BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE UNDERSTAND THE VALUE UNIVERSITY AND CONTINUE TO BE SUPPORTIVE, BUT THEY'RE VERY CONCERNED, THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THESE MASSIVE SALARIES, THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT HIGH TUITION AND THEY'LL STILL SUPPORT IT BUT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR SOME CHANGE I THINK.

>> Cathy: DO YOU THINK THE U NEEDS TO PAY MORE TO ATTRACT QUALITY CANDIDATES?

>> I DON'T.

IN FACT PART OF MY CONCERN IS I SERVED ON THE BOARD FROM '89 TO '95.

>> Eric: YEAH, YOU HAD A SPLIT.

>> AND 20-YEAR HIATUS AND RETURNED IN 2015.

- WITH PRESIDENT HASSLEMO HE WAS MAKING 155 A YEAR WHICH TODAY IS ABOUT 306 AND IN FACT WHEN WAS FIRST ON THE BOARD THE CHAIR AT THE TIME CHUCK CASEY HAD OFFERED HIM A RAISE AND HE SAID, WELL, THE LEGISLATURE'S BEEN CUTTING BACK, I HAVE TO RAISE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO RAISE TUITION, WE HAVE LESS THAN INFLATIONARY INCREASES FOR THE STAFF, HOW CAN I BE A LEADER OF THIS INSTITUTION IF I'M TAKING A RAISE WHILE I'M ASKING FOR SACRIFICES FROM OTHERS?

THAT MENTALITY HAS BEEN GONE FOR SOME TIME.

SO I THINK IF YOUR GOAL IS TO WIN THE HIGH COMPENSATION ADMINISTRATOR SWEEPSTAKES YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO HAVE FOCUS ON WHAT REALLY IS IMPORTANT.

HIGHER ED, YOU KNOW, IS AN INCREDIBLE PUBLIC SERVICE AND VERY, VERY VALUABLE AND I THINK FINDING PEOPLE WHO FIND THAT CAPACITY TO HAVE THAT IMPACT WORKING FOR ONE OF THE GREAT INSTITUTIONS IN THE WORLD SHOULD BE A HUGE PART OF THEIR COMPENSATION, JUST LIKE OTHER, WHETHER IT'S ILITARY SERVICE, THE GOVERNOR, I MEAN, OTHER PEOPLE THAT SERVE THE COMMUNITY THAT HAS TO BE A PART OF IT AND THAT'S BEEN BRED OUT OF HIGHER ED FOR A COUPLE DECADES NOW.

>> Eric: