(upbeat music) - I am Edmund Hollander, the landscape architect.

Today we're gonna be looking at Linden Hill, a wonderful property on the east end of Long Island, and having a discussion with our collaborator, Tom Kligerman.

(upbeat music) - Mr. Kligerman.

- Hey, Ed.

How are you?

- Good to see you.

- Good to see you.

(upbeat music) Remember what was here when we first got here?

- Beautiful trees.

- Great trees on this site.

A great old site with not a great piece of architecture.

- The house that was here was a house that was owned by the ice cream magnate, Mr. Breyer, - Henry Breyer, Breyer's Ice Cream.

- Henry Breyer.

- My favorite.

- You're a peach man.

- I'm a rum raisin guy.

- Rum raisin, - Which explains why we are who we are.

- Well, there's vegetables in rum raisin, and it helps me grow.

- Do you remember how far back that house was?

- Right.

The house was way at the back.

- Right.

- [Tom] Had a courtyard with a beautiful elm tree, wasn't it Elm?

Huge elm tree.

- We cut it down because the builder was petrified that we were gonna build this beautiful house and this thing was gonna collapse and crush it.

And so, yes, it did have to come down - - What it enabled us to do was to take the house, which was way back there, pull it forward so the new house could align with all the old Shingle Style houses down the road.

The amazing thing about the property is you come in, you don't see the house, you come through these beautiful beeches, and you come around.

The house reveals itself from one end to the other, and the front door sort of comes into view.

It's that kind of thing, You can't plan better.

- [Ed] You loved when I put trees in front of your house, I know.

- Now, that's one of the reasons I bought a chainsaw, actually, so I could take care of some of your landscapes.

- So you could take care of me.

- Sorry, that was yesterday.

- Nice.

- So one of the great things about the way we intertwine things is the house never appears stiff.

Symmetries are played up, but they're also played down.

I think the whole thing together has a very relaxed look for what's essentially a really big formal house.

- Well, there's a lot of lip service towards collaboration.

But I think when collaboration works, it's very visible.

And the way that we allowed the trees to define where the driveway is, we almost allowed the trees to help define where the house is.

And the large scale nature, the estate like nature of the trees.

We then picked up on some of that, and there's a soft kind of informal nature of this, but still respectful of the architecture, respectful of the symmetry of the architecture, but trying to help it any way we could.

(upbeat music) - The great thing is it really was an instant estate.

I mean, an estate is kind of an overused, maybe pretentious word, but it does feel like an estate that's been here a long time.

(upbeat music) So, Ed, back here, we had different issues than we did in the front of the house.

Things - different things to solve.

- Well, we're trying to create places for people to live back here.

- The big thing the client talked about was wanting a place for his kids to play.

And the big thing here was this yard, - The size of the lawn here, really, it gives you an appropriate scale.

The architecture sits in the landscape, it nestles in here.

And then, you know, it's all defined by the great old trees that were here that I'm sure you're familiar with, the cercidiphyllum, and the cryptomerias and the chamaecyparis.

- Could you do that again in English?

(both laugh) - But the reason why this is here, and they define this space, but this space also creates a setting for the architecture.

- Right?

Well, I would say this is one of those great, collaborative moments where this lawn frames the house and vice versa.

We put this big symmetrical facade here.

- The best landscapes are ones where they connect to the interior.

So there's kind of a seamless flow between inside and out.

Because for summer homes, it's all about indoor outdoor living.

- The screen porch, you know, that's what American summer architecture's all about.

The screen porch.

- [Ed] It's where people live.

- [Tom] That's where they live, you know, I say cottage on Instagram, people laugh at me, but this is a summer cottage.

- Right.

That's what these referred to.

And the Shingle Style, which is so appropriate for here, but you brought a modern version of a traditional Shingle Style cottage.

And our landscapes are similarly kind of modern versions of what would've been a Shingle Style landscape.

- Right.

If I'm honest with you, one of the things that struck me when we were looking at the drawings of the house, your landscape plans, was how big you decided to make this terrace.

I have no trouble when I'm designing understanding the shape of the house, the proportions, the massing of it.

But when it comes to the landscape, I basically see a two dimensional drawing.

And what I don't see is the three dimensional aspect.

So I saw this gigantic bluestone expanse here, and I thought that thing is way too big.

But what I didn't see was your plan to put in these beautiful potted plants, which are incredible.

And the hydrangea barrier between, or buffer, layer between- - Transition.

- Exactly.

- Yes.

- Between this terrace and the house itself.

And it really creates this wonderful, relatively low scale room within this expansive lawn.

And it's really came out beautifully.

- By having some plantings and something soft that you walk through to get to the terrace.

I mean, a lot of this is creating transitions from interior architecture to landscape architecture to landscape from built to less built to softer.

And having those kind of seamless flows and those transitions are important.

If the pool is wide open in there, it's not nearly as interesting as saying, there's something beautiful over here.

Let's go find out what it is.

- I think that's the pool house you're talking about.

- Well, it's clearly the architecture, but there are a few flowers that look nice too.

But the idea of inviting you into different places of the landscape, you get the feeling there's a pool there, but you don't see it.

So there's something that draws you and invites you into other portions of the landscape.

- I'd say especially that path, which we'll walk up later, that path up over the hill to the property behind is really amazing.

- Yeah.

- So, Ed, we talked a lot about how the symmetrical facade of the house faces that yard.

But I gotta tell you, one of my favorite views of this house is standing there looking across this mirror of water, seeing the landscape in the house in the distance.

This is just a wonderful place to sit.

- It's a reflection really of why collaborations when they work, really adds so much to the project.

Because we had to think about where the pool was gonna go in relation to the architecture, to your indoor rooms, to the kitchen and this green porch.

And so we knew it wanted to be at this side of the property.

We then listened to the land, the great cryptomeria at this end, the great linden that's at that end.

And between the pool and the seating area and the pool house, even looking through the pool house at the garden beyond here, what's really a wonderful combination of architecture and landscape that creates a place which invites families to live throughout the summer.

- I agree.

And I think it's really amazing how well this is all woven together.

It really is a weaving together, of pergola, pool house, the house behind us, this fence, even this fence here, which is actually very low because we raised the pool so that you look over it.

But from the other side, you get your four-foot safety fence.

It all weaves together really beautifully.

- Well, what it is is it's one room.

It's not architecture and landscape.

It is one room that combines your talents.

And my little contribution - always an honor, of course, to work with you and to learn from a master like you.

- Thank you.

- You know, if they said that God is in the details, the detail of the pool, this rimless edge that gives us this reflective mirror, it allows us to see the reflections of the sky, which are so magical, - Right.

And then you have the flowers as a counterpoint, - Right.

- You actively, you walk around the plants, you sort of interact.

As you come up those steps, you really walk by the flowers, which are almost at eye height as you come into this area.

I think it's really very nicely done.

- And one of the things that we always like to think about are our other friends who also live here, the birds, the butterflies, the bees.

We wanna plant things that bring life into the landscape.

We wanna be able to have birds come in here, we want butterflies to come here.

We want honeybees to come here.

We want things that are gonna grow and be healthy and be happy.

So A, you don't have a team of gardeners here and B, you're not pouring chemicals and pesticides and herbicides- - Or over watering and wasting water and stuff like that.

- Right.

Now you want things that, I mean, and every property is different and every location is different, but understanding what wants to grow and planting that, it just makes for a healthier, happier landscape.

And it creates a wonderful habitat for the birds, the butterflies, and the bees.

- Yes.

(upbeat music) Here we are at the path over the hill.

- Well, I think, you know, one of the great things about this, it's like everything else here.

It has grown, the landscape has grown out of the architecture to some extent.

This axial relationship from through the house has always been very important.

And, you know, it was a strong idea that started with how do we connect different parts of the property and how do we interface with the underlying geology and geography of this site.

These are remnant sand dunes that are typical of this part of Long Island.

And what it did was it gave us an opportunity, rather than just having a flat expanse, to go from one portion of the property to another portion of the property.

And, you know, starting with the axial relationship again from the house, the idea of creating this allée of linden trees and the new linden trees speak to the old linden trees that were on the property.

And the idea of creating something that functionally invited us to go to the tennis court in the orchard, in the gardens, but then created this magical experience, kind of through this tunnel of love, if you will, of the linden trees and up these stairs and over to who knows what on the other side.

- Do we get to walk it together, Ed?

- Tunnel of love with you?

- Could be worse.

- Yeah, let's.

- No, but I have to say, this idea other than where we placed the house, this axis here was really probably the second idea that we came up with to link the properties.

Because it was two properties.

And what is great is you go from this giant open field and suddenly, which is very bright and sunlit and flat through this tunnel up over the hill, you drop down into another smaller but open area.

So it's a barbell of space.

- Well, and that's absolutely the key to great landscapes is that you are inviting all the senses to experience it.

It's both a sense of open and close, light and shade, sound, fragrance.

- And then when we start walking back here, what we haven't mentioned is hidden in here is the tennis court.

So when you get to that point right there, there's a cross axis and you can see the tennis court off to your right.

Which is also nice, and actually both directions.

It's wonderful coming this way.

- Yes.

- And it's also wonderful coming out and suddenly having this open up and see the house open up in front of you.

- Well, especially 'cause when you come back from that way, you're laden down with apples and raspberries and tomatoes and the fruits of our labor.

- Exactly.

(upbeat music) - So we're in this garden.

We're on the other end of the property now.

We've come across that allee under the linden.

And you know, you mentioned when we were back there, that projects evolved.

The landscape evolved, and this is an area actually an area that really did evolve because this was gonna be the site of a guest house, which I had hoped to design.

- And may still be one day as the kids grow up.

- Yeah.

Because this garden, in a way is actually the footprint of what otherwise might have been a little cottage back here.

- It's very close - This one would've really been a cottage.

- This would've been a cottage, you know, we are on and we've got a separate entrance over here.

The great thing is that, as this garden is really a metaphor for life in that it's abundant, it's fruitful.

We've got tomatoes, we have kale, we have zucchini, we have herbs, we have peaches, we have raspberries.

You know, it is everything that is sweet in life.

- It is, and we have been eating a lot of it today.

And it is delicious.

- You have.

- You've eaten some.

How much work is a garden like this?

- Well, the key to any garden is soil preparation.

And the soil here is actually, it's got pretty good topsoil and underlain with clay, which would really impede drainage.

So what we did in this area was dig this down to sand and then build it back up with a very good compost and rich soil.

And you can see how things are just kind of, you know, they really wanna grow when you give them kind of good soil like this.

We've got great sun, it's a perfect spot for a garden.

- You know, we talked earlier about the plan and this is the one place where you actually see the plan.

When you come over that hill, you look down, you see the plan of the vegetable gardens.

It's like a parterre - [Ed] Yes.

- Of gravel and planting beds.

It's really quite beautiful and full of amazing things - Once you do the soil right, things want to grow.

- So you can eat things right off the vine.

- I like to eat things off the vine here, all the time.

I mean, look at the abundance of the tomatoes in here.

I of course can't reach them, but I'm sure you can.

- That's my gift to you.

- Thank you sir.

- Cheers.

That's a good tomato.

(upbeat music) Ed, I think this is a great place to pause and end our talk.

This is probably as much as any other place on the property sums up the whole notion of working together in collaboration.

I think the house looks better because of the landscape and I think the landscape looks better because of the house.

- Well, the landscape is here because of the house.

The house is the reason why we created this landscape.

Any landscape we do is gonna be a combination of responding to the site and the trees and listening to the land.

It's gonna be listening and responding to the clients.

But our landscape has to grow out of your architecture for this to work for everybody.

There can't be architecture and landscape.

It has to tie together.

And we've done this a few times together.

And it usually turns out pretty well.

We've done it a lot and, you know, I have to say that this house, we didn't draw something and bring it down to your office on a silver platter from day one, we were in pencil and trace together.

Moving the house around.

- Well, you and I still draw, that's the other thing.

- Yes, exactly.

- And it's not just you and it's not just me, though we like to take credit for it.

You know and I know, it's both the people that work in our offices, it's the contractors on the site, it's the masons, it's everybody working together.

That's also an important part of this, is inspiring everybody that works on this project to be collaborative and to work together to share their experiences, share their ideas.

It makes for a more enjoyable project, it makes for a better project.

- Even if you're doing another Shingle Style house in another garden in Eastern Long Island, every one of you learn something different.

I think everybody in the project, I think these are successful.

Not only if they're great projects, but if everybody walks away, whether it's the tile setter or someone drafting or someone planting the plants that they feel like they did something slightly new, something different, something they learned from.

- And something they enjoyed.

I think joy comes through in architecture and joy comes through in landscapes.

- Yeah, I agree.

- It's a pleasure working with you.

- And with you.

(cheerful music) Today we're gonna be looking at Topping Farm on the east end of Long Island and having a discussion with our collaborator, the architect, Peter Pennoyer.

Hello, Peter.

- Hi, Ed.

Good to see you.

- Welcome back to Topping Farm.

- Thank you.

- It's been a couple of years since you've been here?

- Yeah.

It's terrific.

- And the trees have grown.

- They sure have.

Wow.

- Yeah.

(cheerful music) You remember what this place looked like when we first walked through here?

- It was an old East End farm, a little bit dilapidated, a potato barn without the potatoes.

- Right.

Wasn't that one of the oldest farm houses on Long Island?

- Yes, yes.

I mean, really one of the oldest structures in Suffolk County.

- Wow.

- A small farmhouse still here.

- You know, I'm thinking back about our process of how we did this, and I guess we really started with master planning between your office and my office, collaborating on where were the roads gonna go and the buildings and everything else.

- Right, and how you would experience it, how the house would unfold, like the landscape unfolds, and how we would create something that wasn't simply sort of showing the whole thing the moment you come in.

- Right, right, I mean, having these great trees here, this great old catalpa and the beech trees, and then the new trees we planted in here, you know, kind of invite you into the property.

You don't quite know what you're gonna find.

And, you know, things are discreetly tucked away, but it's almost like a choreography that we develop together that invites you in and then you discover the house, and then you come through the house and it's really a discovery of wonderful places.

- Right, right.

It's an extraordinary process.

And the master planning stage is when your mind is most open for any possibilities.

- Right.

- It's when you're sketching together and thinking together and challenging each other.

- Right.

- It's really a pleasure.

- You know, I think you really did a great job the way you kind of set that house into those trees and let the architecture kind of unfold into the landscape.

- I think the hardest thing is siting a house and you do this so well with the trees to make the house feel like it is in the inevitable place, not just one of four places, but it just has to be there.

(cheerful music continues) (gentle upbeat music) So the challenge here was that the house is shallow, so it's one room deep, which is terrific for getting light through, but it also means that you have long facades.

So our approach here is to have gables coming off the main gable, but you don't want it symmetrical.

You don't want it formality in the architecture.

So I think perhaps the difficulty here might've been for you, is that we have symmetry about this one gable, but then it becomes less formal.

- I love the way the house sits in the landscape though, and I think, you know, one of the things we did so successfully here is the front door doesn't yell, here's the front door, and the landscape invites you to the front door.

There's a choreography to this.

Even these great slabs of old reclaimed yorkstone set in the gravel that lead you to your front door.

I love the way the kitchen windows in the house look out at the vegetable gardens and the orchards.

It just seems to tie the inside and the outside together so well.

- Well, every place relates to the views that you have from each room.

So they are room-specific and wing-specific.

- Right.

I think the way our landscape and architecture play with each other and relate to each other is what makes us such a successful home.

- Thank you.

- Looks pretty nice, doesn't it?

- Absolutely.

(cheerful music) So, Ed, as you remember, the challenge here was that this is where all the views are.

We're facing the pond, this extraordinary lawn you created and this end of the house, which is, I'd say the more formalized architecture has the double gable, the massive chimneys and the porch from the living room.

But where things really get interesting is in the sort of lower slung, asymmetrical wing here, where the hinge between the two wings is this dining room bay that comes out and it has a plinth.

And what I'm really happy about is the way the plinth, which then supports our screen porch and the open cover terrace then gives sort of the base for everything you created.

- I mean, the end of this house is really the ultimate expression of the collaboration between your office, my office, Victoria Hagen and her team, because we've got covered screen porches, covered porches, open terraces.

There are a series of living spaces for the family, which they use all the time that work in any kind of weather.

And it allows you to be as much in the garden as you want to be.

And, you know, the way we've taken the stone detail from the base of the house and it wraps around and becomes the stairs.

But the other thing was, you know, siting the house with you in a way where we preserve the trees, which sets one grade all the way across.

And this was anything but a flat piece of land.

- And, you know, I can't recall, which may be a good thing about your skills, whether you brought the- - Many people can't remember our skills, so it's understandable.

- But did you bring the grade up?

Because it does seem like the house sits more comfortably and lower in the land than many.

- I think there was a lot of work that we did between the offices getting, you know, the elevation of this, which was clearly tied into that, of that tree right there.

I'm sure that tree set the house.

And then, you know, what we had to do to roll and grade this land up so that the stairs just flowed down onto here.

It invited you down here.

But I really think you can see the way we worked together to create these spaces because they're neither architecture nor landscape.

They're kind of the best of both worlds.

- Right, right.

And I love the way the hydrangea screen from the south and then we constantly refer to the sort of the anchor tree of the whole property, the other end of the house.

- [Ed] Right.

- So it completes the story.

- Right, and the trees, the house nestles in amongst them.

And whether they were God's trees or our trees, I guess one day they'll all be God's trees.

But, you know, trees are always planted not just for this generation, but the next generation.

And as these grow, they will do for this house, when the kids are the parents here, these trees will be those trees.

- [Peter] Yeah.

(cheerful music) - Peter, I really love the way our work combined here where we've got this incredibly charming tennis pavilion that is just slathered in white wisteria on Memorial Day and wonderful and fragrant.

And the way this connection, this allée of crape myrtles leads us down to that farmhouse the way it was relocated in the way you put it back together.

And it just feels almost inevitable the way this walkway where the gardens change through the seasons and the crape myrtles invite us down and there's a little grove of sweet bay magnolias with the Adirondack chairs.

But the Adirondack chairs seem cozy because of the way they sit in front of your building and the way your building creates a home for them.

- Right, and I think it's interesting the way you align the path with those little, they're very small windows.

They're very old.

- They're even older than me.

(both chuckling) - And it actually creates a place there which is quite intimate.

In fact, the path is very intimate because we've looked at this wide open expanse in front of the main house, and now we're having something that's a totally different feeling - If we're thinking about sun and shade and fragrance and texture and color, sound, again, you know, as you're moving through, you almost you can feel yourself being drawn down to the way the architecture is welcoming you through here.

And I think, you know, as we've done so many times before, the architecture and the landscape are both better because the way they compliment each other.

- Yeah.

And I happen to love the kind of laciness of the crape myrtle and the way that plays off against the linearity of the shingles.

- And down in June when you're sitting there, those sweet bay magnolias are in flower and it's wonderfully fragrant, and just it's another kind of magical place.

And the walls of the architecture compliment the landscape that comes to it.

So it really, the room is made of both built architecture and living architecture.

- Yes, yes.

Absolutely.

And I'll hang out there anytime with you for some mint juleps.

- Well, I was thinking gin and tonics, but- - Okay.

- We can go mint juleps.

(Peter laughing) (cheerful music continues) So, Peter, I'm not sure when the last time was you made it out to the working part of the farm, if you will.

- Yeah, it's flourished.

It's absolutely flourished.

But I mean, this is a bit of an homage to the farm that was here and the post agricultural landscape that we inherited with the great soils.

And, you know, it's wonderful to have cutting gardens and vegetable gardens and Belgian fences.

We have orchards with peaches and pears and apples.

It's, you know, surrounded by pollinator meadow.

And to some extent, this is still an extension of your architecture because the forms that we see here, the materials, the detailing, it feeds off the Shingle Style architecture and feeds off the forms that you developed in the house.

And even, you know, as we go out in the meadow, you'll see how your kitchen windows look out across this meadow out to the vegetable gardens.

And there's, you know, that wonderful thing where you go from vegetable garden past the chicken coop to get eggs into the kitchen, and you've created a magical life for a family.

- Yeah, no, it's a wonderful thing.

But I have to say, Ed, it looks more like you were doing architecture because I'm seeing a series of rooms, I'm seeing the rooms with the espalier.

Then I'm seeing the room with the cutting gardens.

So maybe I'm seeing it as architecture.

- Well, and you're seeing it that's why we work so well together because the architecture and the landscape really are one.

- Right.

And I love the way the boxwoods reappear now as these sculptural objects plunked down in such a, I don't know, whimsical way.

- Well, except, you know, we have arbors and arches and the Belgian fence with the pears, and there is structure to this.

- It seems wild, but there is structure and it all comes out of the structure that we created for the entire property.

- Right.

And it's again, the contrast of the formality of geometry and then these wonderful sweeping borders.

It's extraordinary.

- [Ed] That look incredibly easy to do and were probably the single most difficult element of the entire landscape to get well.

- [Peter] I know enough about gardening to...

I can't imagine.

It's really extraordinary.

- Everyone assumes meadows, it's Julie Andrews sprinkling wildflowers in a can and singing as she runs through the place, and it's taken us years to get the meadows established.

It is the epitome of summer though, when you're out here.

I mean, these big super drifts of different types of Rudbeckia are really kind of wonderful out here.

And when you come through here, you then realize that, you know, this all lines up with the gables of your house and the kitchen, and you kind of look from the kitchen out to the orchard.

You can see from the kitchen table when the peaches are ripe.

- Right.

But this is really the moment when you realize the connection all the way through the site in your master plan, basically.

- The allée that goes to the old house is over here.

- [Peter] Yes.

- And, you know, the circular form of the meadows, you know, it kind of creates a loving embrace.

- [Peter] Absolutely responding to the house.

- On the perfect day when you're in the kitchen, you can see the terraces and the kids on the screen porch and the lawn and the pond.

And then this side, it's sweeps of meadow and great flowers and peaches and apples.

It's got vegetables and cutting flowers.

So it's the epitome of wonderful living in the country.

And I think it's because of the work that we did together.

And I hope you're pleased with the way this has grown in over these years.

- You've done such a beautiful thing here, Ed, and it really makes the house what it should be.

It just is such a joy to see what has grown.

What has matured.

And honestly, there's some trees that I thought were original that apparently you planted.

So that's a good thing.

- We're a good team.

- Yeah.

(cheerful music continues) (cheerful music continues)