(high pitched musical tone) - Ohio's governor says all students should wear masks, and those eligible should get vaccinated, amidst what he calls a perfect storm, as the new school year begins and the Delta variant looms.

Northeast Ohioans will need more than a ticket at many music venues, as vaccinations and testing are now required due to rising COVID-19 cases.

And the race to be Cleveland's next mayor heats up, as a slew of endorsements rollout, "Ideas" is next.

(slow piano music) - [Narrator] Brought to you by Westfield, offering insurance to protect what's yours, grow your business, and achieve your dreams.

(slow piano music) (upbeat theme music) - Hello, and welcome to "Ideas.

I'm Mike MacIntyre, I'm happy you're here.

Governor Mike DeWine, this week urged parents to put masks on their kids in school, and vaccinate eligible children 12 and up.

This as children across the state head back to classrooms, and as pediatricians report a concerning rise in the number of children hospitalized in Ohio and nationally due to COVID-19 and the aggressive Delta variant.

In politics, early voting began this week.

And the seven candidates vying to be Cleveland's next mayor did some verbal jousting in the second of two debates held here at the Idea Center.

On the other side of City Hall, residents soon will have a voice, finally, at Cleveland City Council meetings, as a plan for public comments is approved.

And if you want to see a concert in Cleveland, you likely will need to prove you're vaccinated or tested negative for COVID-19.

Those are just some of the stories I'm discussing with Ken Schneck, editor of "The Buckeye Flame".

Kabir Bhatia, reporter for WKSU Public Radio, and Karen Kasler, our statehouse news bureau chief.

Let's get ready to round table.

Karen, the governor stopped short of issuing the mandate, but his stance urging children to mask up stands in opposition to some other Republican governors, like those in Florida and Texas, who've banned schools from mandating masks.

So he's walking the line here.

- Yeah, and that whole issue of whether he has the authority or not is certainly part of this.

Some Republican states have banned mask mandates not only in schools, but in local communities.

Arizona, Arkansas, Iowa, Montana, North Dakota, Texas, Tennessee, they've all banned local communities from even instituting their own mask mandates.

But like you said, Arizona and Texas have said, schools cannot institute those mask mandates, in fact, right now there are only 10 states that have statewide mask mandates, and they're run by Democratic governors.

So, DeWine is in a tough position, and other Democratic governors and Republican governors have found themselves in this place, but DeWine's position is really unique in that there is this law that took effect in June.

It says that state lawmakers can overturn any sort of health order that he puts in place almost immediately, so if he did issue a statewide mask order for schools as Democratic challenger, Nan Whaley, said yesterday in a press conference right outside one of the buildings here on Capitol Square.

Then indeed, state lawmakers would almost immediately come back to override that, and then as she suggested, it could go to court.

That was kind of one of the things that surprised me when the law was still being debated, and then once it passed, and Governor vetoed it, and then lawmakers overrode his veto, I was surprised there wasn't some sort of legal challenge, because this question of who has the authority to do this.

DeWine keeps saying this is a local control issue.

Local school districts can make this call, they are not banned from banning, or they are not banned from instituting mask mandates, and he says parents and students can wear masks regardless of the policy.

But there's a real feeling, I think among some people, that a mandate where everybody's on board with this and everybody has to be is the way to do this.

- When we talk about the idea that the Senate bill 22 would take away the governor's power, that's true, but there's some amount of time where an order would be in place.

He's got 30 days, so he has made the case that at least at the beginning of the school year it's important for students to be masked.

Why not then go ahead and issue a mandate, knowing it will be overturned in 30 days, but at least he's gotten done what it is he said he wanted to get done.

- But even, and I'm not sure of the timeline , and I'm not sure of how quickly the legislature would be able to come back though.

I mean, next week they're coming back, at least some members of the legislature are coming back to have a hearing on the bill that would ban all mandatory vaccines, which we've discussed here.

But, the idea of a mask mandate being in place for only a short period of time, what good does that do?

And, is that potentially confusing to people, every day, should I wear a mask, should I not wear a mask?

I mean, the real emphasis that DeWine has had has been on local control, and in fact, his office and his campaign actually, though he hasn't officially announced his campaign for governor, but he said he's running, turned it back on Whaley, and said, "hey, for somebody who's a mayor and should believe "in local control, she's really coming out "and saying she doesn't believe in local control."

But again, the science has really suggested that a mask mandate is something that could work.

And, like you said at the beginning, if indeed the virus does get into a school, and so many kids are under 12, they can't be vaccinated, so how do you stop the virus then spreading throughout the school, and less kids are masked, and these are the questions that school districts are now wrestling with.

- I imagine somebody might say, "local control, okay, we would like "to have gun legislation locally."

- I think so, I mean, this issue of home rule has been something that's gone to the Ohio Supreme Court and been ruled on in different ways in different cases.

And, yeah, you're right, gun legislation, there's all sorts of other issues that have been debated on whether communities have the right to do these things.

And some communities in Ohio have actually decided that they're gonna go ahead and risk it.

I mean, you've got Athens, and Gambier, and Yellow Springs, that have all said that they're gonna do mask mandates for their communities, even though Senate bill 22 has said local health departments can't issue those masks mandates, and they're saying they think that that's legal.

Some communities, Cuyahoga County, Columbus, have said that masks required in government buildings.

So there are kind of ways I guess, that some communities are getting around this idea the state or health departments can't issue these mask mandates.

- Ken.

- Right, this is the push and pull between science and politics, it's all right there.

I love the idea that these communities are risking something by going with the science.

But we know that that doesn't track with a lot of these different communities, even though this is what's been said.

And, so what DeWine just keeps saying over and over, he keeps using the phrase, "the appetite "for masks is just not there anymore."

And, we had the great opportunity to speak with Nan Whaley a few weeks ago, and she was talking about LGBTQ issues.

But really went out of her way to say this is what DeWine does, he will not make an unpopular decision with his own party.

So regardless of the science, the question is whether he will say something that he knows will be overturned, but he seems to be quite conflict averse in that way.

- And you're an education expert.

I mentioned you're with "The Buckeye Flame", but you're also an expert at Baldwin Wallace University in this very field, and in educating young people.

What do you think of the idea that all of these school districts now, we just had a story from Afi Scruggs, a freelancer that worked with us, and we had something up on our website yesterday on ideastream.org, where it talks about how all the cities are different.

In Cleveland and in Akron there are going to be mask mandates for students, but only for the first part of the year, they may reassess.

In some other places, like Shaker Heights, yes, we're gonna have masks, in some, such as Independence, nope, it's up to the parents to decide.

In Rocky River, yes masks, but only up through fifth grade, and then after that we recommend that you have masks.

How do parents navigate all of these different decisions from different school districts?

- And, let me add one more category, the schools who make some type of decision that parents push back on, and then the schools relent, and they go back and say, "oh, okay."

Right, this is the conflict, this is the conflict in K through 12, and YK through 12, this is largely a mess because there isn't any general oversight there.

Schools can decide it from school to school, and who's even really making the decisions?

Can I say, on the college level, one of my favorite stories right now is over at Youngstown State University, where the individual who's making the decisions about whether they should have masks or not is a proud anti-vaxxer.

And so all the faculty-- - Yeah, apparently they saw some Facebook messages this person had written.

- Oh yeah, yeah.

And, so all the faculty got together and said, "who's making these decisions", and the same thing is happening in K through 12, it's not being guided by the science, it's being guided by the local politics of that region.

And, again, how much conflict do you want to get into?

Hardly any of this has anything to do with the education of the children.

- Kabir, I mentioned Akron has a mask mandate, at least for the early part of the semester, but are we seeing the exact same thing play out in all the districts there, as we've talked about in Cuyahoga County and elsewhere in the state?

- Oh, absolutely, just last night Twinsburg said that they're going to mandate masks for students, but then one town south, Hudson, where I live, they're still debating it.

And folks are upset if it even comes up.

You mentioned social media chatter, a lot of the concern is not even that this will stop or not stop the spread it seems.

It's that, well, "I wanna be able to have the choice."

So a lot of the folks that seem to be opposed to this aren't saying, "I don't think masks are effective."

They're saying, "I think that we should be allowed "to have choice, or my child doesn't like it.

And, to that I would say, well, I'm sure that none of us love sometimes seat belts, sometimes they get tangled and things, but seat belts are pretty important if you wanna be saving lives and preventing the spread.

So yeah, you're seeing the exact same thing here, where Twinsburg, just a few days before school starting finally says, "okay, a mandate."

And, here in Hudson I think it's probably coming, despite, there's a small group of parents that seems to, as you said, bombard these school board meetings.

And that seems to be a lot of times what's really driving some of these decisions.

- Interesting, yeah-- - Yeah, can I?

- Go ahead.

- Can I add one thing really quick here?

There is a poll out from Axios and Ipsos that shows that 64% of people responding to that poll support state or local governments mandating masks in all public places.

I mean, it's obviously a lot higher for Democrats than it is Republicans, but that suggests that more than half of people do support mask mandates if indeed they are issued, and would arguably follow them.

And, when you start looking at the numbers of people, the numbers of confirmed cases, the numbers of hospitalizations, there's a real strong argument, especially for people who are not able to get vaccinated, for masks and mask mandates to be put into place.

(upbeat instrumental music) - Early voting began on Tuesday, for September's primary election.

Cleveland, along with Bay village, Cleveland Heights, East Cleveland, Garfield Heights, Lakewood, and Solon all have elections culminating on election day, September 14th, the big race, Cleveland mayor.

It's the first time in 16 years that there's been an open seat and a competitive contest, as four term incumbent, Frank Jackson, will retire.

Ken, we had a couple of interesting endorsements this week, Dennis Kucinich had what I would not consider an old friend, in fact they were political adversaries for many years, but he got an endorsement from somebody who I think longtime Clevelanders will recognize the name.

- Yeah, who voted against him in 1979.

And, that was, is it Mary Oakar?

- Mary Rose Oakar.

- Yeah, Mary Rose Oakar, I'm like, I have her last name, and then I couldn't think of what her first name was.

- There's a lot of Oakars in town.

- Because you and I, Mike, were only two years old when this last happened, in 1979, so that was one of the two big endorsements this week.

For those of us who are perhaps, like myself, newer to Cleveland, this did not hold as much sway, but what a fascinating story, that there has been this real full circle moment for Mary.

- Yeah, Mary Rose had endorsed George Voinovich.

She also has run against Dennis Kucinich in the past.

- Right.

- And, the campaign, the Kucinich campaign says, well, that just shows he's the right candidate at the right time, all of that kind of stuff.

I think I just stole someone else's, I think that was actually Justin Bibb's line, but regardless, showing that it can overcome even these past differences.

The other big endorsement this week did involve Justin Bibb.

- And, yeah, so that was Mike White, the second youngest mayor in Cleveland.

Who, I had to look this up, is running a farm and winery in Tuscarawas County.

- Tuscarawas.

- Yeah, no.

- Tuscarawas.

- See, that's not a word I'm ever gonna be able to say, so.

- Karen, help him out?

- Sorry, Karen.

- Yeah, my husband calls it tusk of walrus, if that helps at all.

- Okay, that made it easier, Karen.

- He's not from Ohio, so.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, so Mike White jumping back in.

This is a guy who had been mayor for a long time.

He basically dropped out of public view for almost 20 years, and now comes back for this endorsement, and then went door to door campaigning with Justin Bibb.

Knocking on people's doors, the old retail, shoe leather politicking, and it's a good question about the boost that might give.

When the current mayor, Frank Jackson, is endorsing Kevin Kelley, the council president.

So now we have two mayors, and then of course a former mayor that's running too.

- And all of this kind of circles around that nexus of who is ready, right?

That was one of the key questions in the debate.

What does readiness look like, what does experience look like?

And, so now you're seeing in these late stages, we can say late stages of the game now, is-- - Yeah, it's in less than a month.

- Yeah, that that's one of the key questions, of what can we risk here, who should we go with, who really has the experience to do this?

So for someone like Justin Bibb, who is admittedly out there and saying, "yeah, I have a different skill set, "and I have a different number of years of experience, "but that doesn't make me any less ready."

Trotting out someone like Mike White to say, "no, no, no, he's ready", that's a big deal.

And that counters some of the arguments against him.

- The mayoral candidates came together Tuesday, for the second of two debates right here at the Idea Center.

It was moderated by senior reporter, Nick Castele.

He's the host of the "After Jackson" podcast.

If you haven't listened to that, you really should subscribe, check that out.

You can also hear it on "The Sound of Ideas" on Wednesdays.

Answering questions submitted on video by Northeast Ohio residents, that's what the candidates were doing.

They shared their views on education, jobs, and the economy, housing, the environment, and transportation.

Kabir, what was your takeaway?

- Well, it was a lot of, I forget the word you used when you were introducing this segment, but it was sort of, there was barbs, and it was somewhat contentious.

If you look at the photo actually, it looks like Nick is one of the candidates, and then Zack Reed is staring him down.

(Mike laughs) But it was an interesting debate of you've done this, you haven't done this, which is what you expect, having them all around like that, and it was really different, if folks haven't seen it they should check it out.

Because the candidates were able to talk to each other, typically in the debates the moderator is shutting that down completely, doesn't want that, but in this format it worked.

And, the takeaway from that seems to be a lot of what Ken just referenced.

Who's ready, who's not ready, who's young, who's too young, or who hasn't done this in their time in office, like a lot of attacks on Council President Kelley.

It seems as though, and you mentioned that there's two former mayors, and the current mayor have all inserted themselves in this race in one way or another.

Taking Bibb out of it, it seems to be a lot of who has already come before.

There's not a lot of new growth, and that's been one of the things in this campaign people are talking about.

How do we grow the talent tree of politicians in Cleveland and Cuyahoga County.

If you look at this debate, and if you look at the campaigning, and how this entire season has gone, it's a lot of what came before.

I mean, if we're reaching back into the 1970s for former mayor, Kucinich, that should tell us something.

And, he went viral for all the wrong reasons, with his quote of, he was talking about the recycling program, which is of course restarting.

So nobody worried, but he was attacking, I think it was Council President Kelley, that the programs kind of stalled and went away.

And, he said, "you do not want "to recycle old ideas", I think was the line, and he gave the camera a big stare down.

Maybe not realizing that he was the oldest one on there.

- Yeah, let me do this, Karen, I know your radio instincts are to fill dead air, but let it happen.

- I don't know this is excellent, this is excellent.

- Okay, so let this happen.

We're gonna play the Kucinich clip, and then just count off the time afterward, and imagine that is someone just staring at a camera, which isn't moving.

In fact, I was in the booth at the time, we thought the camera broke, truly, honestly did, listen to this.

- You cannot blame the people of Cleveland for the failures of waste management, you have to blame City Hall, and you don't wanna recycle failed leadership.

- [Nick Castele] Congressman, thank you very much.

- Okay, that was it, it was that long staring at the camera.

(Ken and Mike laugh) - (indistinct) (Karen laughing) - As Kabir said, Ken, this became a viral moment.

There always is one at one of these debates, but.

- I wanted to apologize to I don't even know who during that time, I felt like I did something wrong.

I called my mom and said, "I'm sorry "for whatever I've done", it was so cringy.

It was such a cringy moment, and you know that there was a meeting before this happened, where people sat down and said, "oh yes, sir, that will really track."

And, it didn't, it was so uncomfortable.

And, poor Nick, Nick handled it like a pro, but even his tie was like, "oh, I gotta go, "this is uncomfortable."

(Mike laughs) - You are welcome in Cleveland.

That's the message to Afghan refugees from Global Cleveland, and it's president, Joe Cimperman, following the takeover this past week of Afghanistan by the Taliban.

Thousands seek to leave the country amid chaos, fearing for the safety of themselves and their families.

Cimperman said in a statement in part, "Cleveland is ready, Cuyahoga County is ready, "we as a community and as a people are ready "to open our doors to our Afghan brothers and sisters "in need with open arms, we will accept the Afghan people."

Kabir, we've seen the videos of people swarming the departing aircraft in Kabul, falling off of them, thousands are desperate to leave.

The president today is going to give an address, I believe at one o'clock, to give some more detail on getting people out of there.

But what about the chaos that's there, and whether Northeast Ohio might be a refuge for some?

- Well, they've been saying Mr. Cimperman has been saying this, in Akron they're saying this, the International Institute, that we've done this before, as far as welcoming refugees.

So send them here, is essentially what they're saying now.

I think we heard in the newscast earlier, 7,000 had been evacuated, 6,000 more on tap, but there are 38 million people in Afghanistan.

So we're not gonna get all of them out of course.

But the ones that are coming here, Northeast Ohio especially, saying you can bring them here, we've done this before, we've settled people from Russia in the 1970s, people from Nepal, refugees here more recently in the Akron area, lots of them have come to Northeast Ohio, Vietnam of course, in the 1970s.

Lots of them have come to Northeast Ohio, we have experience doing this, we have the space, it seems we have the networks, the resources for all of these folks from Afghanistan to come here."

And, it's not just Cleveland and Akron, Columbus is now on a list of cities that might be considered for resettlement that they're waiting to hear approval on whether that's going to happen.

But up here, we have less people and more space essentially than Columbus, so everyone's saying, "bring them here now we, we can do this, "we can provide a new start for them."

- Public comment is finally coming to Cleveland City Council meetings.

As Ideastream Public Media's Taylor Haggerty reported this week, amendments to council rules allowing people to speak were approved Wednesday afternoon.

It's the first time in a hundred years that comments are being allowed, but, Ken, the people who have pushed for this, the Clevelanders for Public Comment, have said it's kind of not quite exactly what we wanted.

- Right, and we have to pause here and give a shout out to Clevelanders for Public Comment.

I mean, this is an inspirational push from a grassroots organization, that said, "we want this", and got traction, and got the public's attention.

So there are a lot of unknowns right now, right?

The hope was that this was going to kick off for the September 20th meeting, it's not going to kick off at the September 20th meeting.

Who's really gonna be making the rules?

I don't know that the Cleveland clerk has gotten this much press ever in the history of Cleveland clerks.

- Right.

(laughs) - So that's kind of a big deal.

Will you have to say your address before your comment, how will that lead to your comment being given credence?

There are so many different questions here.

What does the cap look like, if someone is not evidencing decorum, or respect, or whatever words they're using, what will the gong look like?

Will there be a hook, will the mic be turned off?

So there's a lot of questions here on what this is going to look like, but definitely not starting as early as others wanted.

- And it's some public comment, which there used to be none.

- Right.

- But again, it isn't that kind of anybody who wants to speak may.

- No.

- I remember as a reporter in Lorain, my first job, and covering the Lorain City Council for the "Lorain Journal" then, the best part of every meeting was the public comment part.

Everybody got up and you found out what the heck's going on in the community.

- Oh yeah.

- There was all kinds of interaction with their council members, with the media present to see that.

I think almost all the stories came from that.

- As a former selectman of Brattleboro, Vermont, "Check Shneck", which is even better than Morganize, I will just put out there.

- "Check Shneck" was pretty good.

- "Check Shneck" was great, but as a former elected official, that was the part where you had your finger on the pulse of the community.

It rarely had to do with what the agenda was about.

And, let me tell you something, it very much swayed people who were at the meeting, people who showed up.

Because you not only have to have your comment prepared, you actually have to show up to participate.

- So interesting here, finally they'll be doing that in Cleveland, how do they handle it in Akron and around there, Kabir?

- Well, public comment down here, I mean, even in this Zoom era, meetings haven't been in person for a while, public comment, as Ken said, that's when you find out what's really happening, what's going on in the community.

It's very unusual for a city, especially as large as Cleveland, not to have had public comment.

And, I will just for folks who are wondering, "wait, a hundred years", it was only a brief period when there was a different form of government in Cleveland.

Before that, nothing, after that, nothing for public comment, so the fact that they're actually having it is a pretty big dues.

Their neighbors to the south here in Akron have had it for quite a long time, and, Ken, maybe you can speak to this a little bit more, but it seems that the actual council meetings, and this is in Akron too, they're largely ceremonial a lot of times.

The actual decision making and the sausage getting made happens in committee.

And, that's still up in the air, as far as how public comments is gonna go.

(upbeat instrumental music) - More than a dozen Northeast Ohio music clubs and theaters have joined together to require proof of COVID-19 vaccination, or a negative COVID 19 test for anyone wanting to come into their facilities.

Among the venues, the Beachland Ballroom, the Agora, the BOP STOP, the Happy Dog, May Halls, and the Music Box.

Ken, when does policy policy take effect?

- So this is by Tuesday, September 7th, in 14 different venues, and there's a great FAQ that they put out.

Of, "well, what if I don't have this", well, then you can stay home.

- Yeah.

- This will be adhered to.

- We mean it.

- We really mean it, I am actually emceeing the Cleveland Drag Showcase at the Beachland Ballroom on September 10th.

And, people will be turned away, if you do not have proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test from the previous 48 hours, you are not attending, no matter what kind of sad face you make.

- And, this isn't just the venues that are making these decisions, the people that have to perform there.

I mean, you're gonna be on stage.

- Right.

- You probably would prefer this, but imagine if you're a traveling act, you don't wanna perform in front of a roaring, screaming, moshing crowd of unvaccinated people.

- No, no, I really don't want that.

And there were some cases of musical acts that have been booked in Cleveland areas, where some of the band members have tested positive.

And those shows have had to be rescheduled.

I think the important thing to people remember here, is that this mirrors what some national venue operators are doing, AEG Presents, Live Nation, there are a lot of national venues that are doing this, so it's great that Cleveland is following suit and amazing that these 14 different venues are banding together in this way.

- Sean Watterson, the Cleveland Arts Prize honoree this year.

- The best.

- With the Happy Dog, just sent a note.

And he said, he's passing along, they did get some passionate negative reactions to the announcement.

Here's one quote, "you will suffer severe financial losses, "I hope all your places shut down, maybe this is how "we clean house", was the comment that he got.

And he notes the overwhelming reaction though was positive.

Of the almost 750 reactions the announcement on the Happy Dog Facebook page, nearly 550 liked it, and another 175 loved it.

- Yeah, you know what else cleans house, when you pass away from COVID.

So we're going with the health part here.

And, so Sean, who is one of my Cleveland heroes, it's just wonderful to see this.

- Do you know if masks will be required in some of these places in addition to vaccination, or are we only talking at this point about vaccination?

- We are just talking about vaccinations, and in particular, because it's very difficult to eat and drink with a mask on.

And, so it will be up to some of the venues, but by and large the venues are saying that masks are not required.

- And that's going to wrap up our show.

Coming up Monday on "The Sound of Ideas", we'll talk about COVID-19 booster shots with Ideastream Public Media health reporter, Anna Huntsman, and a Cleveland clinic physician.

And we'll share how you can get involved in discussions about drawing new lines for Ohio's House and Senate districts.

You can listen on 90.3 WCPN, I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks so much for watching, and stay safe.

(slow piano music) (drumbeat and shimmer effect) - [Narrator] Brought to you by Westfield, offering insurance to protect what's yours, grow your business, and achieve your dreams.