>>> MORE THAN HALF THE WORLD'S POPULATION IS VOTING THIS YEAR IN ELECTIONS THAT OUR NEXT GUEST BELIEVES ARE DESIGNED TO DEEPEN DIVISION AND DISTRUST.

AND SO BACK IN 2020 AUTHOR AND BLOOMBERG COLUMNIST FRANCIS S. BARRY SETOUT TO PROVE THERE'S MORE THAT UNITES US THAN DIVIDES US.

HIS METHOD, BUYING AN RV AND MAKING HIS WAY ACROSS THE UNITED STATES TO SPEAK TO PEOPLE FROM EVERY WALK OF LIFE.

NOW BARRY JOINS WALTER ISAACSON TO DISCUSS HIS NEW BOOK "BACK ROADS AND BETTER ANGELS, A JOURNEY INTO THE HEART OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY."

IN WHICH HE CHRONICLES HIS CROSS-COUNTRY JOURNEY TO BRIDGE THE PARTISAN DIVIDE.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE, AND FRANK BARRY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING THE SHOW.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO IN THE SUMMER OF 2020 YOU DECIDE YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE A ROAD TRIP I THINK STARTING IN TIMES SQUARE ALONG THE LINCOLN HIGHWAY.

FIRST OF ALL, TELL ME ABOUT THE LINCOLN HIGHWAY, AND THEN WE'LL GET TO WHY YOU DECIDED TO DO IT THAT SUMMER.

>> SURE, SO THE LINCOLN HIGHWAY IS THE FIRST ROAD THAT CONNECTED THE TWO COASTS TO THE COUNTRY, NEW YORK TO SAN FRANCISCO.

IT WAS DEDICATED IN 1913 AT A TIME WHEN IT WAS EASIER TO GET TO EUROPE BY STEAMER THAN IT WAS TO GET TO CALIFORNIA BY CAR.

THERE WERE VERY FEW ROADS.

IT WAS THE DAWN OF THE AUTOMOBILE AGE, AND A PIONEER OF THE AUTO INDUSTRY SAID IF WE BUILD MORE ROADS, PEOPLE WILL BUY MORE CARS.

>> YEAH, BUT WHY TAKE A ROAD TRIP?

I MEAN, WHAT WAS THE POINT?

>> SO WE WANTED TO GO OUT AND GET AWAY FROM THE 24-HOUR NEWS CYCLE AND SPEAK TO PEOPLE IN THEIR LOCAL COMMUNITIES ABOUT NATIONAL ISSUES BUT FROM A MUCH MORE PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE, AND WE WANTED TO EXPLORE WHAT HOLDS THE COUNTRY TOGETHER.

SO AT A TIME WHEN THERE'S SO MUCH FOCUS ON THE DIVISIONS, WE WANTED TO ASK PEOPLE WHAT HOLDS AMERICA TOGETHER.

AND WHAT BETTER WAY TO DO IT THAN BY TRAVELING THE LINCOLN HIGHWAY AND CHANNELLING THE SPIRIT OF LINCOLN WHO MORE THAN ANYONE HELD THE COUNTRY TOGETHER DURING OUR TIME OF DEEPEST DIVISION.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT CHANNELLING THE SPIRIT OF LINCOLN.

TELL ME WHAT IS THAT SPIRIT OF LINCOLN?

YOU WRITE THAT'S AS IMPORTANT AS WHAT HE DID IS THE SPIRIT WITH WHICH HE DID IT.

>> I CALL IT PATRIOTIC PRAGMATISM.

IT'S A SPIRIT THAT PUTS COUNTRY OVER PARTY.

IT'S A SPIRIT THAT ARGUES WITH REASON AND UNDERSTANDING AS OPPOSED TO RAGE AND RIGHTEOUSNESS.

IT'S A SPIRIT THAT SEEKS COMMON GROUND.

LINCOLN WAS NEVER AN ABSOLUTIST.

LINCOLN HATED MOBS.

HE BELIEVED IN THE RULE OF LAW.

THAT WAS AT A TIME WHEN PEOPLE SEEMED SO ANGRY WITH EACH OTHER.

IT WAS THAT SPIRIT OF UNDERSTANDING.

AND EVEN HUMILITY, THERE ARE MANY POINTS IN LINCOLN'S CAREER WHERE NOTES OF HUMILITY CREEP INTO HIS OWN SPEECHES.

AND THAT IS SO IMPORTANT, RECOGNIZING THAT WE MAY NOT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS AND WE MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THEM AS PERFECTLY AS WE THINK WE SOMETIMES DO.

>> YOU DID IT IN 2020.

YOU HAD COVID AND YOU GOT AN ELECTION THAT FOLLOWED THE TRUMP-HILLARY CLINTON ELECTION BY FOUR YEARS, EVERYTHING.

WHY DID YOU PICK THAT MOMENT, AND WAS THAT SORT OF A TIME -- I MEAN WAS THAT SORT OF A WARPED PERIOD THAT WASN'T REALLY REPRESENTATIVE OF AMERICA?

>> IT WAS DEFINITELY A UNIQUE PERIOD.

AS YOU SAY THE PANDEMIC WAS GOING ON.

WE WERE TRAVELING IN THE SHADOW OF THE GEORGE FLOYD PROTEST.

WE LEFT NEW YORK ON SEPTEMBER 11th.

THE LINCOLN HIGHWAY BEGINS IN TIMES SQUARE.

WE LEFT ON SEPTEMBER 11th, WHICH IS A DAY MORE THAN ANY OTHER THAT UNITED THE COUNTRY, AND OUR GOAL WAS TO GET TO SAN FRANCISCO BY-ELECTION DAY, WHICH SHOULD BE A DAY THAT UNITES THE COUNTRY BUT OF COURSE IS DIVIDING US, SO IT WAS DEFINITELY A UNIQUE TIME.

BUT I THINK MANY OF THE THINGS THAT WE FOUND ON OUR TRIP HAVE ONLY BEEN HEIGHTENED SINCE THEN.

EVEN THOUGH THE PANDEMIC HAS RECEDED, ALL OF THE UNDERLYING ISSUES THAT WE EXPERIENCED IN 2020 I THINK WILL BE EVEN MORE INTENSE IN 2024.

>> YOU SAY WE, WE.

I KNOW FROM READING THE BOOK YOU MEAN IT'S YOU AND YOUR WIFE.

TELL ME ABOUT THE LOGISTICS OF THAT, AND WHAT DID SHE THINK WHEN YOU SAID, HEY, HONEY, WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO A RECREATIONAL VEHICLE AND JUST RIDE FOR MONTHS.

YOU'D NEVER DRIVEN AN RV BEFORE.

>> WE'D NEVER DRIVEN AN RV.

WE'D NEVER REALLY BEEN IN AN RV, AND SHE SAID WHAT YOU MIGHT THINK, WHICH IS THAT'S INSANE, WE AREN'T DOING THAT.

BUT WE TALKED ABOUT IT AND WE BEGAN DOING A LITTLE RESEARCH, AND SHE WARMED UP TO THE IDEA.

SHE'S ALWAYS GOT AN ADVENTUROUS SPIRIT, AND WE'VE BEEN CAMPING BEFORE BUT HAD NEVER BEEN RVING.

AND IN THE END IT WAS ANOTHER PANEDEMIC WE WERE SITTING AROUND EACH OTHER AND STARING AT EACH OTHER.

WE BOTH HAD THE FREEDOM TO TRAVEL SO IT FELT LIKE THE RIGHT TIME.

>> YOU ASKED YOU SAID THE QUESTION WHEREVER YOU WENT, WHAT HOLDS THIS COUNTRY TOGETHER?

WELL, LET ME ASK YOU, WHAT DO YOU THINK HOLDS THIS COUNTRY TOGETHER?

>> WELL, THE ANSWERS I GOT WERE REAL VARIED.

SOME PEOPLE SAID THE CONSTITUTION.

SOME PEOPLE SAID LOVE OF FREEDOM.

SOME PEOPLE SAID LOVE OF PATRIOTISM.

LINCOLN FAMOUSLY SAID IT'S THE MORAL SENTIMENT AND THE DECLARATION THAT ALL PEOPLE ARE -- ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, AND I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF TRUTH IN THAT.

BUT THERE'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT HELP HOLDS US TOGETHER, AND THAT BECAME MORE AND MORE EVIDENT AS WE TRAVELED, AND THAT IS OUR WILLINGNESS TO ACCEPT ELECTION RESULTS AND THE WILLINGNESS OF CANDIDATES TO PLAY THE GRACIOUS LOSER AND TO ACCEPT WHAT RONALD REAGAN CALLED IN HIS INAUGURAL ADDRESS IN 1981 A MIRACLE, WHICH IS THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER.

AND THAT UNDERLIES SO MUCH OF THE VALUES, LIBERTY AND DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM THAT WE HOLD DEAR AND THAT WE BELIEVE HOLD US TOGETHER.

NONE OF THAT CAN HOLD US TOGETHER WITHOUT OUR ACCEPTANCE OF ELECTION RESULTS.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE ACCEPTANCE OF ELECTION RESULTS AND THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER AS BEING THE CORE, WHAT HOLDS US TOGETHER.

AND YET YOU WERE DOWN -- I THINK YOU WERE DOWN IN NEW ORLEANS, MY HOMETOWN, ON INAUGURATION DAY WHEN JOE BIDEN TAKES OVER FROM DONALD TRUMP AND TRUMP'S NOT THERE ON INAUGURATION DAY.

AND JANUARY 6th HAS JUST HAPPENED, AND YOU'RE THERE IN FRONT OF GALLIER HALL TALKING TO PEOPLE.

WAS THERE A SENSE THAT AMERICA CHANGED?

>> NO, I THINK PEOPLE -- EVERYWHERE WE WENT PEOPLE WERE DEEPLY FRUSTRATED BY THE NATION'S DIVISIONS, BUT THERE WAS ALSO AN OPTIMISM THAT WE WOULD OVERCOME THEM.

AND I THINK THAT THE FACT THAT THE TRANSFER OF POWER TOOK PLACE, THAT BIDEN WAS INAUGURATED WAS ACTUALLY A REFLECTION THAT AMERICA IS IN MANY WAYS THE SAME, WHICH IS THAT WE OVERCAME THIS CRISIS.

THAT'S THE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY.

CONFLICT OVER -- OVER WHO WE ARE AND HOW WE'RE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD AND THE VALUES THAT WE HOLD DEAR.

AND IT'S NOT OFTEN PRETTY.

WE FOUGHT A CIVIL WAR OVER IT, BUT OUR WILLINGNESS ORB OUR DETERMINATION, OUR FAITH IN DEMOCRACY IS WHAT HAS REALLY HELD US TOGETHER, AND I THINK THAT HUSBAND REMAINED TRUE DESPITE THE DIFFERING OPINIONS THAT REMAIN OVER 2020.

>> YEAH, I'M REMINDED OF HEMMINGWAY'S LINE, WOULDN'T IT BE PRETTY TO THINK SO.

DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT NOW?

>> I DO, I DO.

AND I THINK EVEN PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN CONTINUE TO -- TO BELIEVE THAT -- THEY BELIEVE IT IN DEMOCRACY.

AND I'M NOT EXCUSING THEIR BELIEF THAT IN A STOLEN ELECTION.

THEY'RE WRONG, OF COURSE.

WE KNOW THAT.

BUT IT IS NEVERTHELESS IMPORTANT FOR OUR LEADERS TO -- TO RALLY PEOPLE AROUND THOSE SHARED VALUES IN ANY WHICH WAY YOU CAN.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT PRAGMATIC PATRIOTS.

WHAT ARE THEY, AND WHERE DO YOU FIND THEM?

>> EVERYWHERE WE WENT.

I'LL GIVE YOU ONE EXAMPLE TODAY RIGHT ALONG THE BORDER IN SOUTH EASTERN ARIZONA IN COCHISE COUNTY WITH THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE.

WE WERE WATCHING THE WALL GETTING BUILT.

THERE WERE CONSTRUCTION CRANES UP AND THE WORKMAN THERE CONSTRUCTING THE WALL, AND THE SHERIFF SAID I KNOW THE WALL IS NOT A PANACEA.

IT'S NOT GOING TO SOLVE EVERYTHING.

WE NEED CAMERAS.

WE NEED STAFFING, A BALANCED SECURITY PLAN, AND WE ALSO NEED, HE SAID, MORE IMMIGRANTS.

HE SAID WE NEED A BALANCED PROGRESSIVE PLAN, AND THAT WAS IN A CONSERVATIVE COUNTY IN SOUTH EASTERN ARIZONA, AND I THINK MOST AMERICANS WOULD AGREE WITH HIM.

WE'VE BEEN FIGHTING OVER IMMIGRATION FOR 20 YEARS.

WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET THERE, AND SO MUCH OF IT HAS FOCUSED ON THE WALL.

BUT I THINK THERE'S A -- IF YOU SPOKE WITH PEOPLE AND GET BENEATH THE POLLING AROUND THE WALL, PEOPLE WOULD AGREE, YEAH, WE DO NEED MORE IMMIGRANTS.

WE NEED MORE LEGAL PATHWAYS FOR PEOPLE TO COME HERE, AND WE ALSO NEED A SECURE BORDER.

>> WHY ISN'T OUR SYSTEM DOESN'T GET US TO WHAT A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WOULD THINK WOULD BE A COMMON SENSE SOLUTION?

>> IN A LOT OF WAYS IT REWARDS EXTREMISM.

A LOT OF PEOPLE RUN TO THE POLLS TO THE FAR RIGHT OR THE FAR LEFT.

I VISIT LINCOLN, NEBRASKA, WHERE IT'S THE ONLY STATE IN THE COUNTRY THAT HAS A NONPARTISAN ELECTION SYSTEM, IF YOU'RE RUNNING FOR OFFICE THE PRIMARY MEANS YOU DON'T JUST KNOCK ON THE DOORS OF PRIMARY AND REPUBLICANS, YOU KNOCK ON EVERYONE'S DOOR BECAUSE INDEPENDENTS ARE ABLE TO VOTE.

THAT CREATES A MUCH DIFFERENT DYNAMIC FOR CANDIDATES.

THEY'VE GOT TO LISTEN TO EVERYBODY, THEY'VE GOT TO SEEK EVERYBODY'S VOTE, AND IT HAS CREATED A MORE FUNCTIONAL LEM S LACHER IN NEBRASKA THAN MOST OTHER STATES HAVE, AND THERE'S NO REASON WE CAN'T BRING THAT TO OTHER STATES AND CONGRESS.

AND SAY THAT IN THE BOOK PEOPLE, CYNICS WE GET THE GOVERNMENT WE DESERVE, AND I THINK WE GET THE GOVERNMENT WE DESIGN, AND WE'VE DESIGNED IT FOR DYSFUNCTION.

>> THERE'S A GUY NAMED CHRIS GIBBS.

TELL ME WHAT YOU'VE LEARNED FROM HIM.

>> SURE.

CHRIS GIBBS IS A FARMER IN OHIO, A CATTLE FARMER AND HE'S SPENT HIS LIFE IN LOCAL REPUBLICAN PARTY POLITICS.

HE VOTED FOR TRUMP IN 2016, AND OVER THE COURSE OF THE ADMINISTRATION GREW DISILLUSIONED WITH TRUMP, SOMEWHAT OVER AGRICULTURAL TARIFFS AND SOMEWHAT OVER POLICY.

SO HE DECIDED TO LEAVE THE PARTY AND BECOME AN INDEPENDENT.

AND IN DOING THAT, SOMETHING HAPPENED HE WASN'T EXPECTING, WHICH IS HE LOST ALL HIS FRIENDS, AND THAT WAS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO EXPERIENCE BECAUSE THESE RELATIONSHIPS THAT HE HAD BUILT OVER A LIFETIME IN LOCAL POLITICS DISAPPEARED.

AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT I L HEARD ECHOES FROM THAT FROM OTHER PEOPLE AS WELL, AND IT'S A REALLY DISHEARTENING -- IT'S A REALLY DISHEARTENING EXPERIENCE TO SEE RELATIONSHIPS DISAPPEAR OVER POLITICS.

>> ONE OF THE PLACES YOU VISITED, TOO, WAS A MOSQUE, AMERICA'S FIRST MOSQUE IS RIGHT THERE ALONG LINCOLN HIGHWAY.

YOU INTERVIEWED, AND HE TOLD ME SOMETHING THAT STOOD OUT TO ME.

HE SAID IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE SEPTEMBER 11th ATTACKS, HE SAID SUDDENLY WE STARTED HAVING PHONE CALLS, LETTERS, EVEN BOUQUET OF FLOWERS WERE LEFT AT THE STEPS, BASKETS OF FOOD SAYING WE KNOW YOU, YOU ARE NOT LIKE THEM.

HOWEVER, ALSO THINGS CHANGED A BIT.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

>> SO HE SPOKE VERY POSITIVELY ABOUT THE POST-9/11 EXPERIENCE AND HOW THE COMMUNITY RALLIED AROUND HIM AND THE MEMBERS OF THE MOSQUE AND HOW MUCH THAT MEANT TO THEM, BUT IT BEGAN TO EVAPORATE DURING THE TRUMP YEARS, HE SAID.

AND HE WENT OUT OF HIS WAY TO NOT BE PARTISAN ABOUT IT.

HE SAID MANY MUSLIMS ARE REPUBLICANS.

BUT WHAT -- WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS DOING WAS DEMONIZING MUSLIMS IN A WAY THAT WAS INFLAMING PEOPLE TO ISSUE THREATS AND TO OSTRACIZE THE COMMUNITY IN A WAY THAT THEY HAD NEVER EXPERIENCED.

IN A SENSE IT WAS THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT PRESIDENT BUSH DID AFTER 9/11, WHICH WAS TO DEFEND ISLAM AS A RELIGION OF PEACE.

AND I'D HEARD SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR FROM THE FIRST MUSLIM WOMAN TO BE ELECTED MAYOR OF ANY TOWN IN AMERICA IN NEW JERSEY, AND SHE DESCRIBED A VERY SIMILAR POST-9/11 EXPERIENCE.

AND THEN WHEN HE RAN FOR OFFICE ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN YEARS AGO SHE ENCOUNTERED JUST A TORRENT OF ISLAMAPHOBIA, AND IT WAS VERY DISHEARTENING FOR HER TO EXPERIENCE.

BUT SHE RECOGNIZED THAT IT HAD BEEN BUILT-UP OVER TIME, AND THAT IT WAS BEING INFLAMED AND HEIGHTENED BY TRUMP AND WHAT HE WAS EMPOWERING OTHER PEOPLE TO SAY AND DO.

>> THE DIVISIONS YOU SAW IN AMERICA ARE NOT JUST DOMESTIC IN THE UNITED STATES.

WE'RE SEEING THEM AROUND THE WESTERN WORLD IN PARTICULAR, EVEN WITH THE EUROPEAN ELECTIONS RECENTLY.

TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU THINK THIS P POPULIST RESENTMENT WE FEEL IN AMERICA IS IT RELATED TO IMMIGRATION, OR IS IT AN ECONOMIC ISSUE, OR A MISTRUST OF THE ELITES?

TO WHAT COMBINATION IS IT?

>> I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF ALL OF THAT, AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT IT'S NOT NEW.

WE'VE HAD WAVES OF XENOPHOBIC SENTIMENT IN THIS COUNTRY MANY TIMES IN THE PAST, AND IT WAS CERTAINLY THE CASE IN LINCOLN'S DAY AS WELL.

AND SO WE HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS BEFORE, AND WHAT I TRY TO DO IN THE BOOK IS TO DRAW UPON HOW WE GOT THROUGH THOSE TIMES AND HOW WE OVERCAME THEM AND HOW WE DIDN'T SUCCUMB TO XENOPHOBIA.

THE IRISH AND THE GERMANS AND ITALIANS AND CATHOLICS ALL FACED A WAVE OF THIS.

I THINK THAT'S A REALLY PART OF THE AMERICAN STORY AND PART OF THE AMERICAN SUCCESS STORY IS ACCEPTANCE AND ASSIMILATION.

AND IT'S A STORY THAT WE NEED TO REMIND OURSELVES OF THAT IT'S PART OF WHO WE ARE AS WE LOOK AT THIS LATEST WAVE OF IMMIGRANTS AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COMING TO THE BORDER AND FROM ALL DIFFERENT PLACES.

>> SO FOUR YEARS AGO YOU WERE ON THE ROAD, AND THERE WAS A TRUMP VERSUS BIDEN ELECTION.

NOW WE'RE ENTERING THE SUMMER, A TRUMP VERSUS BIDEN ELECTION.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE STAKES, AND ONE OF THE THINGS YOU SAY IS THERE'S NOTHING MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE MAINTENANCE OF DEMOCRACY THAN THE SENSE THAT THE NATION IS DOOMED UNLESS AN ELECTION GOES A PARTICULAR WAY.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE STAKES IN THIS ELECTION, AND WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE WAY THAT WE CAN REMAIN UNIFIED GOING THROUGH ELECTIONS LIKE THIS?

>> I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT WE SURVIVED SO MUCH AS A COUNTRY.

LINCOLN HAD THIS PHRASE.

HE CRITICIZED SOUTHERNERS WHO THREATENED TO RULE OR RUIN THE COUNTRY.

AND I THINK YOU CAN HEAR A LOT OF THE ECHO OF THAT SENSE OF RULE OR RUIN IN SOME OF TRUMP'S COMMENTS, THAT THE COUNTRY WILL NOT SURVIVE ANOTHER FOUR YEARS OF -- OF JOE BIDEN.

I THINK THERE'S ENORMOUS RESILIENCE IN THE COUNTRY'S VALUES.

>> WELL, LET ME SAY THAT DON'T YOU THINK IT GOES THE OTHER WAY.

PEOPLE SAY THE DEMOCRATS WOULD NEVER SURVIVE FOUR YEARS OF TRUMP.

>> YEAH, I DO.

I DO THINK THERE'S GREATER RESILIENCE THAN DEMOCRATS GIVE THE COUNTRY CREDIT FOR.

I THINK THAT IS TRUE.

THE DANGER IS THAT WHEN WE WERE TRAVELING FOUR YEARS AGO, JANUARY 6th AND STOP THE STEAL HADN'T HAPPENED, AND NOW IT HAS.

AND THAT IS A -- THAT IS A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF -- OF CONFLICT THAN WE'VE SEEN IN AMERICAN DEMOCRACY IN MANY YEARS.

SO -- BUT I DO AGREE THAT THERE'S ENORMOUS RESILIENCE IN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND IN THEIR FAITH AND IN THESE VALUES, AND I THINK THAT WILL CONTINUE TO BE THE CASE, AND THE MORE THAT LEADERS CAN APPEAL TO THAT, I THINK THE MORE ATTRACTIVE THEY WILL BE AS A CANDIDATE, AND I KNOW THAT HAS NOT BEEN TRUMP'S STRATEGY THUS FAR.

BUT I THINK HE WOULD BE -- THEY'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE MY POLITICAL ADVICE, BUT I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING TO BE GAINED FROM BOTH CANDIDATES IN APPEALING TO THAT SENTIMENT.

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE CANDIDATES CAN DO, BUT YOU'VE BEEN ACROSS AMERICA.

WHAT DO YOU THINK EACH OF US CAN DO EVERY MORNING WHEN WE WAKE UP TO SAY LET'S FIGURE OUT A WAY TO HEAL THESE DIVISIONS THAT OUR POLITICIANS, OUR MEDIA, OTHER THINGS KEEP CREATING IN OUR SOCIETY?

>> WELL, IN OUR OWN LITTLE WAYS, IN OUR COMMUNITIES THERE'S LOTS OF THINGS WE CAN DO.

I SPOKE WITH A WOMAN IN SOUTHBEND, INDIANA, A PRO-CHOICE VOLUNTEER.

AND SHE TALKED ABOUT HOW DIFFICULT IT WAS TO OPEN THE CLINIC AND HOW MUCH OPPOSITION THEY FACED FROM LOCAL RESIDENTS.

BUT INSTEAD OF BEING ANGRY AT THEM, SHE DECIDED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, WHICH WAS TO INVITE SOME OF OF THE OPPONENTS TO HER HOME FOR A CONVERSATION, AND SHE THOUGHT THIS MIGHT CREATE SOME COMMON GROUND.

TURNS OUT, IT DIDN'T.

THEY WERE BOTH UNALTERRIBLY OPPOSED TO THE OTHER'S POSITION, BUT SHE CONCLUDED YOU KNOW WHAT, THAT'S OKAY BECAUSE SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENED AND WE FOUND WE LIKED EACH OTHER AND WE BEGAN A RELATIONSHIP.

AND SHE SAID THE LESSON OUT OF THAT EXPERIENCE WAS WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PRIORITIZE THE RELATIONSHIP OVER THE POLITICS, AND I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT EACH OF US CAN DO IN OUR OWN LIVES IS TO REMEMBER THAT THE RELATIONSHIP IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PARTICULAR POLITICAL ISSUE THAT WE'RE ARGUING ABOUT.

>> FRANK BARRY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.