REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

I AM DELIGHTED TO SAY OUR GUEST TODAY IS DEVI LOCKWOOD WHO IS A COMMENTATOR AND IDEAS EDITOR WITH THE PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER , FORMER EDITOR AND WRITER WITH THE NEW YORK TIMES OPINION COLUMN, SCIENCE WRITING DEGREE FROM MIT, MAGNA CUM LAUDE FROM HARVARD IN 2014 FOR FOLKLORE AND MYTHOLOGY, OH, I ENVY THAT DEGREE AND SHE IS HERE WITH US TODAY AFTER WRITING A MARVELOUS BOOK.

I LOVE THIS BOOK, IT IS CALLED 1,001 VOICES ON CLIMATE CHANGE: EVERYDAY STORIES OF FLOOD, FIRE, DROUGHT AND DISPLACEMENT FROM AROUND THE WORLD .

SHE, IN ORDER TO WRITE THIS, TRAVELED FOR FIVE YEARS, TRAVELING 20 COUNTRIES ON SIX CONTINENTS AND NOW YOU HAVE ENDED UP IN OUR STUDIO IN SANTA FE, NEW MEXICO, WELCOME.

>>DEVI: THANK YOU, IT IS A REAL PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>>LORENE: IT IS SUCH AN ADVENTURESOME AMAZING THING YOU HAVE DONE.

AND I WANT TO MENTION THAT YOU ARE HERE AS A GUEST OF THE INSTITUTION CALLED GLOBAL SANTA FE, IT WAS FORMERLY, FOR YEARS, CALLED THE SANTA FE COUNCIL ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS.

AND THEY BROUGHT YOU HERE TO TALK ABOUT THE WORLD, THEIR TAGLINE IS "CONNECTING OUR WORLD," THEY PROMISE TO EXCHANGE GLOBAL EXPERIENCES AND IDEAS AND I DON'T KNOW ANYONE WHO HAS DONE SUCH A GOOD JOB OF ASSEMBLING AND EXPERIENCING THE ENTIRE GLOBE AND TALKING ABOUT IT, SO WELCOME, WELCOME.

>>DEVI: THANK YOU, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>LORENE: SO HOW DID YOU, I DON'T KNOW OF ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS DONE THIS QUITE AS YOU HAVE.

WHAT WAS YOUR IDEA, YOU JUST THOUGHT, OH, ONE THING, SO ONE OF THE WAYS YOU INVITED PEOPLE TO ENGAGE YOU, YOU'RE BICYCLING ALL OVER AND YOU HAD THESE SIGNS AND YOU WORE THEM AROUND YOUR NECK AS YOU WERE RIDING AND THEY WOULD SAY THINGS LIKE "OPEN CALL FOR STORIES, TELL ME A STORY ABOUT WATER, TELL ME A STORY ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE."

SO PEOPLE AS YOU ARE BICYCLING THROUGH A REMOTE VILLAGE, WOULD STOP AND TELL YOU THESE STORIES.

>>DEVI: EXACTLY.

YEAH, YES, THE ORIGINAL INSPIRATION FOR THE PROJECT ACTUALLY CAME OUT OF A REALLY TRAUMATIC EVENT THAT I LIVED THROUGH IN THE CITY OF BOSTON.

SO TEN YEARS AGO NOW THERE WERE TWO BOMBS THAT EXPLODED AT THE FINISH LINE AT THE BOSTON MARATHON AND I WAS AN UNDERGRADUATE STUDENT AT THE TIME, NOT THAT FAR AWAY CHEERING ON A FRIEND EARLIER IN THE DAY AND THEN CAME BACK HOME AND HEARD WHAT HAD HAPPENED AND THE WHOLE CITY WAS ON LOCKDOWN FOR SEVERAL DAYS WHILE THEY DID A MANHUNT.

IT WAS A DIFFICULT TIME AND KIND OF DIFFICULT TO FEEL LIKE YOU COULD TRUST STRANGERS AND TRUST ONE ANOTHER.

SO I HAD THIS KIND OF FIT OF INSPIRATION WHERE I REALIZED I REALLY NEEDED TO CONNECT WITH PEOPLE I DIDN'T KNOW AND REMIND MYSELF THAT NOT EVERYBODY IS MURDEROUS.

AND I TOOK A PIECE OF CARDBOARD AND WROTE "OPEN CALLS FOR STORIES" ON IT AND PUT A PIECE OF RIBBON AROUND THE CARDBOARD AND TIED THAT AROUND MY NECK AND THEN JUST WALKED AROUND THE CITY FOR A DAY.

PEOPLE TOLD ME ALL SORTS OF STORIES AND I FELT LIKE I WAS DOING WHAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO DO AND I FELT MORE ALIVE THAN MAYBE I EVER HAD BEFORE.

AND SO, THAT SUMMER, I RODE MY BICYCLE ABOUT 800 MILES DOWN THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER STARTING IN MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE AND ENDING IN VENICE, LOUISIANA WHICH IS WHERE THE RIVER MEETS THE GULF OF MEXICO.

AND ALONG THE WAY, PEOPLE TOLD ME STORIES ABOUT ANYTHING AND THE FARTHER DOWN THE RIVER I WAS RIDING THE BICYCLE, THE MORE STORIES I WAS HEARING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT WATER AND CLIMATE CHANGE IN TERMS OF INTENSIFIED STORMS, SALT WATER ENCROACHMENT ON THE LAND AND IN SOME CASES PEOPLE MAKING A REALLY DIFFICULT DECISION TO LEAVE A PLACE THEY HAVE CALLED HOME FOR GENERATIONS IN THE AFTERMATH OF A BIG STORM.

AND WHEN I GOT BACK TO BOSTON, I WAS RELISTENING TO THESE STORIES, WRITING ABOUT THEM, AND REALIZED THAT IT WOULD BE REALLY POWERFUL TO PUT THESE STORIES ABOUT WATER AND CLIMATE CHANGE AND DIALOGUE WITH OTHER STORIES ABOUT OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD AND THAT WAS THE INSPIRATION FOR THIS PROJECT THAT TOOK ME TO MANY DIFFERENT PLACES.

>>LORENE: YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT MURDER AND MAYHEM IN BOSTON, BUT AS YOU WERE BICYCLING IN ALL THESE CONTINENTS AND COUNTRIES, WERE YOU EVER FRIGHTENED?

>>DEVI: FOR MY OWN PERSONAL SAFETY?

>>LORENE: YES.

>>DEVI: NO, FOR THE MOST PART I FELT REALLY SAFE, PEOPLE LOOKED OUT FOR ME.

I HAVE A FRIEND WHO SAYS WHEN YOU PUT YOURSELF IN THAT KIND OF A VULNERABLE SITUATION, THAT IS WHEN THE ANGELS COME OUT.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>DEVI: AND ANOTHER FRIEND WHO INSTRUCTED ME TO FOLLOW THE THREE SECOND RULE, WHICH IS WHEN YOU MEET SOMEONE YOU DECIDE IN THE FIRST COUPLE OF SECONDS WHETHER OR NOT YOU TRUST THEM AND GO WITH YOUR GUT.

THE FEW TIMES THINGS GOT DICEY WERE WHEN I DIDN'T TRUST THAT OR WASN'T ABLE TO FOR SOME REASON.

BUT, ON THE WHOLE, I THINK BEING ALIVE IS INHERENTLY DANGEROUS AND IT IS NO MORE SO DOING IT, I MEAN I WOULD BE ON MY BICYCLE ANYWHERE.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

AND SO I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF PICTURES.

THIS IS THE FAMOUS BICYCLE.

>>DEVI: YES.

>>LORENE: AND YOU HAD EVERYTHING YOU NEEDED PRETTY MUCH.

>>DEVI: YES, IN THOSE PANNIERS ON THE FRONT AND THERE ARE TWO MORE ON THE BACK.

>>LORENE: AND THE WONDERFUL THING ABOUT TRAVELING BY BICYCLE IS THAT YOU ARE WAY OFF THE BEATEN PATH.

>>DEVI: OH ABSOLUTELY.

>>LORENE: YOU WERE TRAVELING WHERE THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE TRAVEL, THEY ARE NOT THE SUPER HIGHWAY OR ON THE YOU KNOW, AND YOU WERE TRAVELING AT THE PACE THAT THEY LIVE, YOU KNOW YOU WEREN'T ZOOMING THROUGH SAYING, "YEAH, I HAVE BEEN TO EVERY STATE."

BUT IT WAS AT 80 MILES PER HOUR AND YOU ONLY STOP TO GET COFFEE AND TO USE THE RESTROOM.

YOU ACTUALLY ENGAGED WITH PEOPLE AND HERE IS A PICTURE OF YOU IN FIJI.

>>DEVI: YEAH, IN SUVA, FIJI.

>>LORENE: TELL ME ABOUT THESE PEOPLE.

>>DEVI: OH THOSE WERE TWO SECONDARY SCHOOL STUDENTS WHO I MET WHO WERE REALLY EXCITED TO TELL ME ABOUT THE COASTLINE AND THE CHANGES THEY HAD SEEN IN THE COASTLINE.

>>LORENE: AND WHAT WERE THE CHANGES?

>>DEVI: YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THEY WERE SORT OF LEARNING ABOUT SOME OF THE SCIENTIFIC CONCEPTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE AND SO IT WAS MORE OF A CHANGE AND EXCHANGE IN THAT CONVERSATION SPECIFICALLY.

BUT I REMEMBER EARLIER IN THE TRIP, ONE OF THE FIRST DAYS I WAS IN FIJI MEETING A MAN WHO HAD PLAYED RUGBY ON THE SAME BEACH HIS ENTIRE LIFE FROM ALMOST WHEN HE WAS ABLE TO WALK AND HE TOLD ME THAT EACH YEAR HE WAS NOTICING THERE WAS LESS AND LESS SPACE TO PLAY.

AND IT WAS JUST INTERESTING TO HEAR PEOPLE'S LIVED EXPERIENCES OF CHANGING COASTLINES.

>>LORENE: SO I JUST WANT TO SHOW A COUPLE OF MORE PICTURES.

TELL ME ABOUT HER NAME IS KATHYCHEN?

>>DEVI: YEAH, YES.

SO WE MET IN CHENGDU, CHINA AND IT WAS JUST ONE OF MANY STORYTELLERS THAT I HAD THE GREAT PLEASURE OF MEETING ON THE JOURNEY.

>>LORENE: AND I LOVE IT BECAUSE YOU GOT YOUR MICROPHONE, YOU HAND IT OVER AND SAY TELL ME ABOUT WATER BUT SHE IS TELLING YOU ABOUT WATER I LOVE IT, BECAUSE ON YOUR WEBSITE, WHAT IS YOUR WEBSITE?

>>DEVI: THERE ARE A FEW BUT YOU CAN LISTEN TO SOME STORIES AT 1001STORIES.ORG.

>>LORENE: YES, BECAUSE I LISTENED TO SOME OF THEM AND THEY WERE JUST WONDERFUL.

WHEN YOU ASK FOR STORIES THEY CAN BE GOOD ONES AND BAD ONES AND SOME OF THEM WERE SO MOVING AND SO POWERFUL, WELL TALK ABOUT THEM IN THE MIDDLE.

JUST ONE MORE, THIS IS YOU WITH YOUR, TELL ME A STORY ABOUT WATER, BY A BODY OF WATER AND PEOPLE JUST COME UP AND START TELLING YOU THE STORIES.

WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE STORIES.

>>DEVI: SURE.

>>LORENE: SOME OF MY FAVORITES.

WELL A WOMAN NAMED MELISSA IN FLORIDA WHO HAD BEEN DIVING THE CORAL REEFS ALL THROUGH HER YOUTH AND SHE MOVED AWAY AND SHE CAME BACK, AND WHAT DID SHE DISCOVER ABOUT THE CORAL REEFS?

>>DEVI: SHE WAS SO EXCITED TO SHARE THIS COLOR IN LIFE AND THE VIBRANCY WITH HER DAUGHTER AND THEY RETURNED TO GO TO THAT SAME PLACE THAT SHE LOVED AS A CHILD AND THE REEF WAS MORE THAN 90 PERCENT BLEACHED.

AND SHE WAS JUST SOBBING AS SHE TOLD ME THE STORY AND THANKED ME FOR MAKING THE SPACE TO PROCESS THAT GRIEF BECAUSE I THINK THAT THERE IS SO OFTEN A LOT OF SADNESS THAT COMES ALONG WITH WITNESSING THESE CHANGES.

BUT REALLY SMALL CHANGES IN TEMPERATURE CAN REALLY ALTER THE LIFE THAT IS ABLE TO SURVIVE IN THE OCEAN, ESPECIALLY IN REEFS AND THEY ARE VERY VULNERABLE.

>>LORENE: THAT FEELING HAS A NAME, SOLASTALGIA.

>>DEVI: YEAH.

>>LORENE: THE FEELING OF LOSS AND GRIEF THAT WHAT YOU LOVED IS NO LONGER THERE ON MANY LEVELS, BUT WHEN IT IS A PLACE THAT YOU LOVED AND IT WAS YOUR CHILDHOOD IT WAS MAGICAL AND IT'S GONE.

THAT IS JUST A TRAGEDY, A REAL LOSS.

>>DEVI: IT IS REALLY DEEPLY SAD.

>>LORENE: BUT THERE ARE GOOD STORIES, TOO.

TALK ABOUT JO WATSON AND THE HEBRIDES, SHE IS THE PHOSPHORESCENT WOMAN.

>>DEVI: OH, YEAH.

SO THIS WAS IN SCOTLAND AND SHE TOLD ME A STORY.

SHE AND HER FAMILY LIVED RIGHT BY THE WATER AND THERE WAS A PHOSPHORESCENT PLANKTON, A WHOLE GROUP THAT CAME IN ON THE STREAM IN ONE NIGHT THEY JUST WENT DOWN AND WERE SPLASHING ABOUT IN THE WATER AND FELT THE BEAUTY OF ALL THESE COLORS.

>>LORENE: AND THE GLOWING AND THE SPARKLE.

>>DEVI: OH, EXACTLY.

EVERY MOVEMENT JUST PRESERVED IN THE WATER FOR MOMENTS AND THAT WAS GORGEOUS.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>DEVI: YEAH.

>>LORENE: ANOTHER ONE YOU DID IS THE STORY OF DANIEL AND SHARON COX AND THEIR KIDS IN THE TSUNAMI IN SRI LANKA.

>>DEVI: SURE.

>>LORENE: AND YOU HAVE IT ON THE STORY WEBSITE, BUT THEY DESCRIBE BEING SEPARATED AND HE, THE DAD, HER HUSBAND, TRYING TO FIND WHERE HIS LITTLE BOYS WERE AND HIS WIFE WERE.

>>DEVI: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND WE HAVE ALL SEEN PICTURES OF THAT TSUNAMI IN SRI LANKA AND THERE WERE BOTTLES AND TREES AND REFRIGERATORS, YOU KNOW, INSANE, AND YET HE FOUND THEM AND THEY WERE SAFE, IT WAS RATHER DRAMATIC.

>>DEVI: YEAH, THEY WERE SEPARATED FOR HOURS.

I THINK THAT STORY REALLY SHOWS HOW DESTRUCTIVE WATER CAN BE TOO, WHEN THERE IS TOO MUCH OF IT IN A PLACE THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE.

>>LORENE: YEAH AND ALSO SOMETIMES THERE IS NO HIGHER GROUND.

>>DEVI: OH FOR SURE.

>>LORENE: AND THAT'S REALLY SCARY, THEY WERE ABLE TO GET TO HIGHER GROUND, BUT YOU KNOW, IT IS VERY FRIGHTENING.

YOUR BOSTON STORY WHEN THERE WAS WATER RISING IN BOSTON AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE YOU WRITE ABOUT IS A MAN NAMED MARK BINDER.

THIS OLD WOMAN KEPT SAYING, WATER WAS RISING IN BOSTON, THE OLD WOMAN KEPT SAYING, MOVE THE TOWN.

THEY COULDN'T MOVE THE TOWN, SO THEY WERE GOING TO MOVE THIS AND MOVE THE BOARDWALK AND MOVE THAT, BUT THEY COULDN'T MOVE THE TOWN.

FINALLY SHE SAID, WATER GOES WHERE WATER GOES.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, THE WATER RECEDED AND IT WAS OKAY BUT I THOUGHT THERE IS A VOICE OF WISDOM THAT SAYS, WATER GOES WHERE WATER GOES.

>>DEVI: IT SURELY DOES.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>DEVI: YEAH.

>>LORENE: AND ANOTHER OF THE FUNNY ONES AND THEN I WILL LET YOU TELL SOME.

THERE WAS A MAN IN NORWAY WHO WAS OUT KAYAKING, AND HE FOUND A MESSAGE IN A BOTTLE AND THEN RIGHT NEXT TO IT WAS ANOTHER MESSAGE IN A BOTTLE.

THEY HAD BEEN STICKING TOGETHER IN THE SAME CURRENTS, YOU KNOW HAD PROBABLY BEEN IN WATER FOR SOME TIME AND YET SOMEHOW THOSE TWO BOTTLES, THROUGH THE WAVES AND THE TIDES, HAD MANAGED TO STAY TOGETHER.

>>DEVI: YEAH, THAT IS A BEAUTIFUL ONE.

>>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH DEVI LOCKWOOD AND NOW IF YOU CAN TELL US SOME OF THE STORIES THAT MOVED YOU MOST.

>>DEVI: SURE.

>>LORENE: IN COMPILING THIS WONDERFUL BOOK.

>>DEVI: YEAH.

WELL PEOPLE ASK ME A LOT ABOUT SOLUTIONS AND I THINK FOLKS WHO I SPEAK WITH ARE REALLY HUNGRY FOR HOPE OR A REASON TO FEEL HOPEFUL ABOUT THIS CLIMATE CRISIS THAT FEELS SO DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH AND ALSO IS IMPACTING SO MANY DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES, NOT ONLY IN OUR COUNTRY BUT AROUND THE WORLD IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.

AND WHEN I THINK ABOUT HOPE, FOR ME, IT IS REALLY A VERB, CENTERED IN THE WAY THAT I SAW PEOPLE TAKING ACTIONS IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES TO MAKE THEM BETTER EVEN IN THE FACE OF SOME REALLY DIFFICULT ENVIRONMENTAL CHALLENGES.

AND ONE PERSON WHO REALLY EMBODIES THAT IS A WOMAN I MET IN NEW ZEALAND, HER NAME IS TONEA TONGAMOA SHE IS MAORI, WHICH IS THE INDIGENOUS GROUP THERE.

AND TONEA SPENT SOMETHING LIKE TWO DECADES REHABILITATING A WETLANDS THAT HAD BEEN USED AS A DUMP SITE FOR SEVERAL DECADES AND WHEN SHE STARTED THERE WEREN'T ANY NATIVE PLANTS OR ANIMALS WHO WERE ABLE TO SURVIVE IN THAT AREA AND THE LANDFILL HAD BEEN CAPPED.

BUT THE TOXICITY WAS JUST OVERWHELMING AND IN DOING THIS REALLY UNGLAMOROUS WORK FOR SO MANY YEARS, SHE HAULED OUT TIRES, SHE PLANTED NATIVE SEEDS AND SLOWLY, SLOWLY SHE SAW THE SPECIES THAT SHE WAS TAUGHT BY HER ELDERS TO KNOW AND RECOGNIZE RETURNING TO THE AREA.

AND FOR HER IT IS A REALLY SACRED SITE AND A SACRED KIND OF WORK DOING THIS WETLAND RESTORATION AND WHAT MOVED ME EVEN MORE WAS SEEING HOW SHE HAS USED THIS AS AN ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATION OPPORTUNITY FOR ELEMENTARY SCHOOL KIDS IN HER COMMUNITY, BRINGING THEM INTO THE WETLANDS, TELLING THEM ABOUT THESE PLANTS AND ANIMALS, TEACHING THEM THEIR NAMES AND HOW THEY LIVE AND SURVIVE, BUT ALSO TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE IMPACT OF THAT TOXICITY IS FROM THE LANDFILL SITE LONG TERM.

AND I JUST THINK THAT THAT SHOWS US HOW THIS SLOW REPEATED ACTION THAT IS GROUNDED IN PLACE AND CENTERED IN THE PLACES WE CAN CALL HOME, CAN BE SOME OF THE MOST POWERFUL SOLUTIONS.

>>LORENE: AND THERE ARE SO MANY PLANTS THAT ACTUALLY CAN ABSORB THE TOXINS AND ALSO PILL BUGS ROLLIE POLLIES ARE VERY GOOD AT GETTING TOXICITY OUT OF THE EARTH.

>>DEVI: ISN'T THAT LOVELY?

>>LORENE: YEAH, DON'T KILL THE ROLLIE POLLIES.

SO YOU HAVE A HUGE BODY OF FANS AND THE EDITOR OF YALE CLIMATE CONNECTIONS , BUD WARD, SAID, "A GREAT STORYTELLER NEEDS FIRST TO BE A GREAT LISTENER AND WITH EACH PEDAL OF HER BIKE, UP AND DOWN, A PREVIOUSLY UNKNOWN PATH DEVI LOCKWOOD HEARS FROM THOSE LIVING THROUGH CLIMATE CHANGE AND RELATED WATER WOES LITERALLY ON THE FRONTLINES.

HER SKILLS AT STORYTELLING ARE MATCHED BY HER MASTERY OF LISTENING."

>>DEVI: THAT'S REALLY KIND, YEAH.

>>LORENE: WELL, SO TO HAVE A SCIENTIST SAY TELL ME A STORY BUT THEN TO DO THAT DEEP LISTENING THAT IT TAKES TO GET TO THE HEART OF THE STORIES.

AND WHEN PEOPLE KNOW YOU ARE REALLY, REALLY LISTENING, REALLY HEARING THEM, THEY ARE SO HONEST, THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THE LITTLE NICEY, NICEY PRAISES, THEY JUST TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED.

>>DEVI: FOR SURE.

YEAH AND I THINK IT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT WE MAKE SPACES TO DO THAT TYPE OF DEEP LISTENING WITH ONE ANOTHER BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A CULTURE THAT COULD BE SO FAST MOVING AND I WILL BE THE FIRST TO ADMIT THAT IT WAS REALLY HARD TO LEARN HOW TO DO THIS.

WHEN I LISTEN TO THOSE EARLY RECORDINGS I MADE GOING DOWN THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER, I WAS JUMPING OVER STORYTELLERS OR ASKING THEM QUESTIONS RIGHT WHEN THEY WERE JUST GETTING INTO THE FLOW.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

>>DEVI: AND I REALIZED THAT I NEEDED TO SIT BACK A LITTLE BIT AND TAKE A BREATH AND LISTEN WITHOUT THE INTENTION TO RESPOND IMMEDIATELY.

I THINK THAT IN AND OF ITSELF CAN BE REALLY POWERFUL IN TERMS OF BRINGING PEOPLE TO A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN SHARE THEIR STORIES FLUIDLY.

>>LORENE: AND SOME OF THEM MAYBE THEY HAVEN'T TOLD ANYONE, I AM NOT SURE ABOUT THE YOUNG MAN WHOSE BROTHER WAS INJURED IN A PLACE WHERE THEY HAD TO BOIL THE WATER.

>>DEVI: YEAH.

YES THIS WAS A MAN I MET NAMED ASHAN IN KAZAKHSTAN AND HE GREW UP IN AFGHANISTAN AND HIS COMMUNITY HAD TO BOIL WATER IN ORDER FOR IT TO BE SAFE TO DRINK.

HE HAD A YOUNGER BROTHER AND HIS PARENTS WERE OUT AND HE WAS IN CHARGE OF WATCHING HIS YOUNGER BROTHER AND HIS BROTHER SOMEHOW GOT TANGLED UP IN THE WATER AND THAT POT OF BOILING WATER CAME DOWN DIRECTLY ON HIM AND HE LATER DIED FROM THE BURNS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.

HE BLAMED HIMSELF BUT THEN REALIZED AS HE GOT OLDER THAT PART OF THE PROBLEM WAS THAT THERE WASN'T ACCESS TO SAFE DRINKING WATER IN THEIR COMMUNITY AND SO NOW HE HAS DEDICATED HIMSELF TO STUDYING WATER ENGINEERING IN ORDER TO TRY TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM THAT LED TO HIS BROTHER'S DEATH IN THE FIRST PLACE.

AND YEAH, HE TOLD ME HE NEVER SHARED THAT STORY WITH ANYONE BEFORE, HE WAS SHAKING, BUT HE COULD TELL IT AND IT WAS SUCH A RELIEF TO SHARE IT, BECAUSE IT WAS A BURDEN HE HAD BEEN CARRYING SILENTLY FOR SO LONG.

>>LORENE: AND HAD YOU NOT BEEN CREATIVELY RECEPTIVE LISTENER, IT WOULD HAVE STOPPED LIKE, "OH YEAH, THIS HAPPENED," BUT WITHOUT THE FEELING AND THE REEXPERIENCING OF IT.

>>DEVI: YEAH, YEAH.

I JUST THINK IT WAS POWERFUL TO LISTEN AND POWERFUL TO HAVE A SPACE TO SHARE OUR STORIES, TOO.

>>LORENE: WHAT ARE SOME OTHER PEOPLE THAT HAVE PARTICULARLY MOVED YOU, THE BOOK IS FULL OF THEM.

>>DEVI: YEAH, YEAH, WELL LET'S GO TO THE SOUTH PACIFIC.

>>LORENE: YEAH, GREAT.

>>DEVI: SO TUVALU IS A REALLY SMALL CORAL ATOLL NATION, HOME TO ABOUT TEN THOUSAND PEOPLE, AROUND 580 MILES SOUTH OF THE EQUATOR.

THIS IS A COUNTRY THAT IS ESPECIALLY VULNERABLE TO THE IMPACT OF CLIMATE CHANGE FROM SEA LEVEL RISE THAT ARE IMPACTING THE WATER TABLE.

SO AROUND 20 YEARS AGO, PEOPLE STARTED TO NOTICE THAT THE CROPS THAT THEY WERE PLANTING IN THE GROUND, STARCHY ROOT VEGETABLES, WERE ROTTING AND THE CULPRIT WAS FOUND TO BE SALTWATER INTRUSION AND IT USED TO BE ALSO THAT PEOPLE COULD DIG A SHALLOW WELL AND HAVE WATER FOR BATHING, COOKING, DRINKING EVERYTHING AND THAT WATER BECAME BOTH SALTY AND CONTAMINATED.

AND SO NOW ALL THE WATER COMES FROM RAINWATER AND THERE ARE GUTTERS ATTACHED TO THE ROOFS THAT FILTER THAT WATER INTO A WATER TANK THAT IS THEN BOILED FOR CONSUMPTION.

SO WHEN IT DOESN'T RAIN, FAMILIES ARE PUT IN A REALLY PRECARIOUS SITUATION.

I MET A TUVALU IN MY AGE NAMED ANGELINA AND SHE HAS THREE KIDS, HER YOUNGEST DAUGHTER WAS A NEWBORN AT THE TIME OF A REALLY SEVERE DRAUGHT THAT LASTED FOR SEVERAL MONTHS AND SO SHE, HER HUSBAND AND THE OLDER KIDS COULD WASH THEMSELVES IN THE SALT WATER OF THE SEA BUT THE NEWBORN'S SKIN WAS JUST TOO DELICATE.

AND SO SHE WAS FINDING HERSELF HAVING TO MAKE A DECISION BETWEEN HAVING WATER TO COOK RICE AND HAVING WATER TO BATHE HER CHILD AND THOSE ARE SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS FORCING, ESPECIALLY UPON WOMEN RIGHT NOW.

ANOTHER REALLY INTERESTING ELEMENT OF HER STORY HAS TO DO WITH MIGRATION.

THE OLDER TUVALUANS THAT I MET TOLD ME THAT THEY SEE CLIMATE CHANGE AS AN ACT OF GOD AND THAT THEY WOULD NEVER LEAVE THE PLACE THEY CALLED HOME ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THE BONES OF THEIR ANCESTORS ARE BURIED RIGHT THERE IN THE FRONT YARD.

YOUNGER TUVALUANS LIKE ANGELINA ARE MAKING THE DIFFICULT DECISION TO TRY TO LEAVE AND HAS BEEN APPLYING FOR A VISA LOTTERY TO MOVE TO NEW ZEALAND AND I THINK IT JUST SHOWS HOW FOOD AND WATER INSECURITY ARE PUSHING PEOPLE TO LEAVE PLACES THAT THEY CALL HOME.

>>LORENE: OH WHAT A BITTER, BITTER CHOICE TO MAKE.

AND SO, THESE ISLANDS AND WITH THE RISING SEA LEVEL, I KNOW THAT IN SEVERAL CASES THEY HAVE TRIED TO MOVE WHOLE VILLAGES BACK.

>>DEVI: YES.

>>LORENE: MAYBE ABOUT 30 FEET FROM THE SHORE, BUT THEN MAYBE THEY WILL HAVE TO MOVE THEM AGAIN.

>>DEVI: IN TUVALU THERE IS JUST NOT THE SPACE, TOO.

>>LORENE: I KNOW BUT THE OCEAN IS ON THAT SIDE.

>>DEVI: THAT SIDE AND THAT SIDE.

YEAH BUT IN FIJI SOMETIMES THAT IS HAPPENING AND WHEN YOU GO UPHILL YOU CAN, BUT IT IS NOT ALWAYS AN OPTION.

>>LORENE: WHAT PLACES STRUCK YOU THE MOST IN THE IMMEDIACY OF WHAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS DOING TO THEIR LIFE?

>>DEVI: I THINK I SAW IT FOR SURE IN THE SOUTH PACIFIC.

ANOTHER PLACE THAT GOT ME THINKING ABOUT HOW CLIMATE CHANGE INTENSIFIES FOOD AND WATER INSECURITY AND PROMPTS MIGRATION IS IN THAILAND.

I REMEMBER MEETING A YOUNG MAN IN BANGKOK WHO COMES FROM GENERATIONS OF RICE FARMERS AND RICE FARMING IS ENABLED BY THE STEADY AND RELIABLE PRESENCE OF WATER WHICH IS GENERALLY GOVERNED BY THE MONSOON SEASON AND WHAT HE HAD NOTICED, EVEN IN HIS LIFETIME, WAS THAT THE MONSOONS HAVE BECOME KIND OF UNPREDICTABLE AND THE WATER IS COMING AT TIMES WHEN IT HADN'T COME BEFORE WHICH IS JUST MAKING FARMING NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE.

SO HE IS PART OF THIS WAVE OF MIGRATION, FROM THE RURAL NORTH, INTO THE CITY OF BANGKOK OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING FOR WORK.

AND THAT PATTERN IS REPEATED IN MANY, MANY PLACES.

>>LORENE: AND WHAT ABOUT EUROPE, I KNOW THAT SPAIN HAS BEEN HAVING THESE DROUGHTS AND FIRES AND IN THE SOUTH OF FRANCE DROUGHT, DROUGHT, DROUGHT.

>>DEVI: YES.

>>LORENE: THE ALPS ARE LOSING ITS SNOWPACK.

THERE ARE WHOLE DECADES OF AGRICULTURE THAT WOULD BE BASED ON THE RUN OFF FROM THE ALPS.

>>DEVI: RIGHT, RIGHT.

I THINK REALLY NOWHERE IS IMMUNE AND IT IS REALLY JUST DIFFERENT IMPACTS THAT WE ARE SEEING IN DIFFERENT PLACES AND PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO RESPOND TO THOSE IMPACTS IS SORT OF DIRECTLY RELATED TO THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, RACE AND CLASS AND EXISTING HIERARCHIES, OPPRESSION AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND SO I ALSO REALLY LEARNED HOW MUCH CLIMATE CHANGE IS AN ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE ISSUE.

GENERALLY, THE PEOPLE WHO CONTRIBUTED TO THE PROBLEM, THE LEAST ARE THOSE WHO ARE MOST IMPACTED BY IT AND THAT IS REALLY DIFFICULT TO SEE.

>>LORENE: ISN'T THE UNITED NATIONS WORKING ON SOME FORMULA WHERE THE MOST DANGEROUS EMITTING, COUNTRIES THAT ARE CAUSING THE CLIMATE CHANGE, HAVE GOT TO HELP THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING THE MOST FROM IT.

>>DEVI: RIGHT.

IT IS SOMETHING CALLED LOSS AND DAMAGES AND THAT WAS REALLY STALLED IN THE LAST UN CLIMATE CONFERENCE, AND YOU KNOW, WEALTHIER NATIONS DRAGGING THEIR HEELS ABOUT DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

BUT IT BRINGS INTO MIND SOME BIG ETHICAL QUESTIONS FOR SURE.

>>LORENE: WELL YOU WENT TO, WHAT WAS IT CALLED COP... >>DEVI: TWENTY-TWO, YEAH.

>>LORENE: WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

>>DEVI: YES.

SO THAT WAS IN 2016 IN MOROCCO, AND IT WAS A FASCINATING EXPERIENCE TO JUST BE SURROUNDED BY DELEGATES FROM NATIONS ALL OVER THE WORLD AND THERE WERE THE FOLKS IN POWER WHO WERE IN THE NEGOTIATING ROOMS AND THEN I WAS PART OF A LARGE GROUP OF CIVIL SOCIETY MEMBERS WHO JUST CAME TO BEAR WITNESS TO THIS.

AND, YEAH, IT WAS A REALLY FASCINATING EXPERIENCE BUT ALSO MADE ME THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT HOW THESE UN CLIMATE CONFERENCES HAVE BEEN HAPPENING BASICALLY MY ENTIRE LIFE AND WE HAVE VERY LITTLE TO SHOW FOR IT CONCRETELY.

AND THAT IS CHALLENGING AND THAT IS WHERE, AGAIN WHEN PEOPLE ASK ME ABOUT HOPE AND ASK ME ABOUT SOLUTIONS, I THINK WE DO NEED MORE FROM OUR GOVERNMENTS, BUT ULTIMATELY IT IS FOLKS WHO ARE ON THE GROUND AND EXPERIENCING THE IMPACTS WHO ARE THE BEST PHYSICIAN TO DO THINGS THAT WILL POSITIVELY IMPACT THEIR COMMUNITIES.

>>LORENE: SO, WHAT I NEED TO ASK YOU IS, WHAT WE ALL CAN DO, BUT THE FIRST THING WE CAN DO IS GET THIS BOOK 1,001 VOICES ON CLIMATE CHANGE, BECAUSE IT IS SO IMMEDIATE AND SO EFFECTIVE TO TALK TO PEOPLE WHOSE LIVES ARE IMMEDIATELY AFFECTED BY IT.

BUT THOSE OF US WHO THINK IT IS ONLY HAPPENING OVER THERE, WHAT CAN WE ALL DO TO SLOW THE EVENTS THAT ARE INEVITABLE WITH CHANGE.

>>DEVI: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: BUT HOW CAN WE HELP IT SLOW DOWN A LITTLE?

>>DEVI: SURE, YEAH.

I THINK ONE THING I REALLY TRIED TO DO IN THE BOOK IS TO SHOW PEOPLE THAT THE LANGUAGE WE USE TO TALK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE IS SO OFTEN REALLY ABSTRACT AND INACCESSIBLE, BUT THAT THERE ARE THESE HUMAN VOICES BEING IMPACTED RIGHT NOW.

I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO GO OUT AND LISTEN IN THEIR COMMUNITIES TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE IMPACTS ARE THAT ARE HAPPENING RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW IN NEW MEXICO, I AM SURE THAT THERE ARE MANY.

AND BEYOND THAT, I MEAN I THINK FIRST, SPEND SOME TIME LISTENING TO YOURSELF, WHAT DO YOU LOVE DOING, WHAT GETS YOU OUT OF BED IN THE MORNING, WHAT GETS YOU EXCITED TO START THE DAY?

IS THERE ARE WAY THAT YOU CAN USE THAT SPECIFIC TALENT THAT YOU HAVE TO HELP SOLVE THIS PROBLEM?

AND I THINK THE SECOND WOULD BE, DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT ON ALL ON YOUR OWN, THAT'S A FAST TRACK TOWARDS DESPAIR AND WE DON'T NEED MORE OF THAT.

BUT INSTEAD JOIN UP WITH LIKEMINDED PEOPLE IN YOUR COMMUNITY WHO ARE THINKING ABOUT THESE ISSUES AND THINKING ABOUT WHAT A JUST AND EQUITABLE SOLUTION MIGHT LOOK LIKE.

THERE ARE MANY ENVIRONMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE DOING GREAT WORK ALL OVER AND I THINK LINKING UP WITH ONE OF THEM AND OFFERING WHATEVER IT IS THAT YOUR SPECIFIC TALENTS ARE TO THAT CAUSE IS A GREAT WAY TO MOVE FORWARD.

>>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE QUOTES THAT I WAS GOING TO READ, BUT BILL MCKIBBEN, WHO IS A LEADER IN THE CLIMATE AND ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE, HE IS VERY MUCH A FAN OF WHAT YOU HAVE DONE AND LOVES YOUR BOOK.

SO IT IS TRUE THERE ARE CONSERVATION AND ENVIRONMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS THAT CAN HELP.

>>DEVI: OF ALL KINDS.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

AND I LIVE IN A LITTLE TRADITIONAL HISTORICAL VILLAGE HERE AND THEY KEEP DAMMING THE WATER UPSTREAM FROM US, SO THE SANTA FE RIVER ONLY RELEASES WHEN THERE IS A LOT OF SNOW MELT AND SO IT IS VERY HARD FOR THIS LITTLE AGRICULTURAL COMMUNITY I LIVE IN TO BE ABLE TO CONTINUE THEIR TRADITIONS.

ONE LAST WORD, SO YOU HAVE A SIGN ON YOU RIGHT NOW IN MY MIND THAT SAYS, TELL ME ABOUT WATER AND TELL ME WHAT WE CAN DO.

SO THIS IS YOUR LAST RANDOM CHANCE TO EVOKE THAT HOPE AND TELL US AGAIN WHAT WE CAN DO.

>>DEVI: YEAH.

I MEAN IT MIGHT SOUND KIND OF COUNTER INTUITIVE, BUT I THINK LISTENING CAN BE A CLIMATE SOLUTION AND THE MORE SPACE THAT WE MAKE FOR SHARING THESE KINDS OF STORIES WITHIN OUR OWN COMMUNITY, THE BETTER POSITIONED WE ARE GOING TO BE TO CREATE SOLUTIONS THAT ARE GROUNDED IN THE PLACES AND SPACES THAT WE CALL HOME.

>>LORENE: WELL, SPEAKING OF LISTENING BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN LISTENING TO YOU.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS DEVI LOCKWOOD ABOUT HER WONDERFUL BOOK 1,001 VOICES ON CLIMATE CHANGE .

THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING, I HOPE THAT WE HAVE HAD EARS TO HEAR.

>>DEVI: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE YOUR MESSAGE IS VERY, VERY CRITICAL, I AM VERY GRATEFUL TO YOU.

>>DEVI: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, IT WAS A PLEASURE, I AM GRATEFUL TO YOU FOR THE WONDERFUL QUESTIONS AND TO EVERYONE FOR LISTENING AS WELL.

>>LORENE: AND I AM GRATEFUL TO YOU OUR AUDIENCE FOR LISTENING.

THIS IS LORENE MILLS WITH REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING, REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM