>>> FROM BUS TICKET AGENT TO BROADCAST NEWS ANCHOR, JIM LEHRER TALKS ABOUT THE EXPERIENCES THAT SHAPED HIM AS A JOURNALIST AND HIS PASSION FOR WRITING.

STAY TUNED -- "DIALOGUE" IS NEXT.

>>> HELLO AND WELCOME TO "DIALOGUE."

I'M MARCIA FRANKLIN.

A WELCOME AS WELL TO OUR PUBLIC RADIO LISTENERS.

TOM BROKAW, PETER JENNINGS, DAN RATHER -- ALL ARE NOW GONE FROM THE NIGHTLY NEWS DESK.

BUT ONE NETWORK ANCHOR IS STILL GOING STRONG, PROVIDING CONTINUITY FOR A 30-YEAR TRADITION OF HIGH QUALITY REPORTING.

OF COURSE, THAT PERSON IS JIM LEHRER FROM THE NEWSHOUR ON PBS, AND I'M DELIGHTED TO HAVE HIM HERE AS A GUEST TODAY.

WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU, DELIGHTED TO BE HERE.

>> NOW, MR.

LEHRER WAS ORIGINALLY A PRINT JOURNALIST, AND CUT HIS TEETH COVERING EVERYTHING FROM SPORTS TO THE KENNEDY ASSASSINATION.

HE STARTED HIS BROADCAST CAREER AT THE PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION IN DALLAS, AND EVENTUALLY MADE HIS WAY TO WASHINGTON, WHERE HE HOSTED COVERAGE OF THE WATERGATE HEARINGS.

IT WAS THERE THAT HE MET ROBIN MACNEIL, AND IN 1975 THE TWO OF THEM COOKED UP THE WILD IDEA OF A HALF-HOUR NIGHTLY NEWS PROGRAM ON PBS.

THE MACNEIL-LEHRER NEWSHOUR BECAME AN HOUR LONG SHOW IN 1983, AND WHEN MR.

MACNEIL LEFT IN 1995, MR.

LEHRER BECAME THE SOLE ANCHOR OF THE PROGRAM, AS WELL AS ITS EXECUTIVE EDITOR.

IN HIS SPARE TIME, MR.

LEHRER IS THE AUTHOR OF TWO MEMOIRS, THREE PLAYS AND 16 NOVELS, THE LATEST OF WHICH IS ENTITLED "THE PHONY MARINE."

MR.

LEHRER IS HERE AS THE KEYNOTE SPEAKER AT THE IDAHO HUMANITIES COUNCIL'S ANNUAL DINNER -- A DINNER, BY THE WAY, THAT I UNDERSTAND 950 PEOPLE WILL BE ATTENDING!

>> I'M DELIGHTED.

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

>> A COMPLETE SELLOUT.

>> THAT'S GREAT.

TERRIFIC.

>> I UNDERAN UNDERSTAND YOUR MOM TAUGHT SCHOOL HERE IN IDAHO FOR A HIM.

>> SHE DID.

SHE TAUGHT AT THE NAZARENE COLLEGE IN NAPA IN THE 2 20S.

>> DID SHE TELL YOU ANYTHING ABOUT?

>> SHE TAUGHT ENGLISH AND IT WAS A SMALL SCHOOL OF A FEW MUN STUDENTS AND THERE WERE FOUR OR FIVE -- HER FATHER, MY GRANDFATHER WAS A BIG SHOT IN THE NAZARENE CHURCH AND IN FACT HE WAS CALLED A GENERAL SUPERINTENDENT.

AND ALL OF THE KIDS, HE HAD SIX KIDS, MY MOTHER WAS ONE OF THEM AND THEY WERE ALL INVOLVED IN THE NA NAZARENE CHURCH IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

>> YOU TIED HIM FORTNUM OF BOOKS.

16DN'T YOUR GRANDPA WRITE 16 BOOKS AS WELL.

>> I'M WORKING ON IT.

THIS TIME NEXT YEAR I WILL HAVE SUR SPAED HIM BECAUSE I HAVE GO.THER ONE DONE AND READY TO >> IT THE IN THE GENES.

I WANT TO TALK BY SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED RECENTLY.

YOU WERE PRIVILEGED ENOUGH TO GIVE AN OPENING ADDRESS AT THE NEW MARINE CORPS MUSEUM.

WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

YOU WERE A MA VINE AND YOUR BROTHER AND FATHER.

>> IT WAS EXTRA ORDER IN PERSONAL TERMS.

I WAS BORN A MARINE.

IN THE 1950s THE DRAFT WAS ON WHEN IT CAME TIME FOR ME TO GO TO THE SERVICE AND THE QUESTION WAS NOT WHETHER YOU WERE GOING TO GO THE ONLY QUESTION WAS WHAT BRANCH OF THE SERVICE YOU WERE GOING TO GO AND BECAUSE MY DAD HAD BEEN A MARINE AND MY OLDER BROTHER HAD BEEN A MARINE I WENT INTO THE MARINE CORPS AND I WAS IN FOR THREE YEARS.

I WAS AN INFANTRY OFFICER IN THE FAR EAST AND FOR ME TO COME BACK ON THE MARINE CORPS BIRTHDAY ON NOVEMBER 10TH OF THIS YEAR, 231ST BIRTHDAY OF THE MARINE CORPS AND SPEAK AT THE DEDICATION OF THIS INCREDIBLE MUSEUM IN VIRGINIA, 30-MILES SOUTH OF WASHINGTON, AND THE ONLY OTHER SPEAKER, THERE WERE ONLY FOUR SPEAKERS.

>> PRESIDENT BUSH.

>> PRESIDENT BUSH.

THE COMMANDER OF THE MARINE CORPS AND A RETIRED THREE STAR GENERAL WHO WAS THE INSPIRATION BEHIND THE MUSEUM.

IT WAS A BIG DEAL TO ME.

>> WHAT DID THE MARINES DO FOR YOU, FIRST OF ALL, AS A PERSON?

>> I BELIEVE IT WAS THE THREE MOST IMPORTANT YEARS OF MY LIFE AND I LIVED A LOT OF YEARS SO THAT COVERS A LOT OF GROUND.

WHEN I WENT INTO THE MARINE CORPS I WAS A KID WHO HAD NEVER REALLY BEEN OUT OF TEXAS, OKLAHOMA AND KANSAS.

I HAD NEVER BEEN ON AN AIRPLANE.

I HAD MOSTLY BEEN AROUND JUST PEOPLE JUST LIKE ME WHO TALKED LIKE ME AND THOUGHT LIKE ME AND NEVER BEEN RESPONSIBLE EVEN FOR MYSELF, MUCH LESS FOR ANYBODY ELSE AND SUDDENLY THERE I WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR OTHER PEOPLE AND I HAD TO LEARN NOT ONLY TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR OTHERS, I HAD TO LEARN HOW TO HANDLE PEOPLE DEPENDING ON ME AND I LEARNED ALL THE BASIC THINGS ABOUT THE MARINE CORPS LIKE YOU ARE ONLY AS STRONG AS THE PERSON ON YOUR RIGHT AND ON YOUR LEFT AND ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS THAT IT IS A GODSEND TO BE PUSHED TO DO YOUR BEST.

ALL THAT STUFF AND IT BECAME PART OF ME.

THE MARINE CORPS HAS A WAY OF GETTING THINGS VERY QUICKLY INTO YOUR DNA AND IT GOT IN THERE AND IT STAYED.

>> HOW HAS IT -- HOW HAS IT IN FLEW WENNED YOU AS A JOURNALIST IN AN ERA WHERE YOU WERE COVERING ANOTHER WAR?

LOOK AT WAR DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE YOU WERE IN THE MILITARY.

>> YES, I DO, MARCIA.

THE WHOLE ISSUE OF SENDING AMERICANS INTO HARM'S WAY AS A JOURNALIST, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE RESULT OF DEBATES HAVING TO DO WITH GEOPOLITICS AND POLITICS AND ET CETERA BUT BECAUSE OF MIMA REASON EXPERIENCE THEY ARE ALSO ALWAYS ABOUT REAL PEOPLE.

>> PEOPLE.

>> YOUNG LANCE CORPORALS I SAID IN THE SPEECH IN FACT, YOUNG LANCE CORPORALS AND SECOND LIEUTENANTS, REAL PEOPLE WITH FACES AND NAILS AND RANKS -- NAMES AND RANKS AND SERIAL NO.S AND FAMILIES AND FUTURES THAT MAY NEVER BE AND IT IS -- IT IS JUST PART OF MY ATTITUDE TOWARD IT.

DOESN'T AFFECT ME JOURNALISTICALLY ECK SEPS THAT I ALWAYS KEEP THAT IN MIND.

>> IS THAT WHY YOU HAVE THE NAMES THAT RUN AT THE END OF THE PROGRAM OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK BACK ON IT I'M SURE THAT WE WOULDN'T DO THAT HONOR ROLL.

THAT WAS MY IDEA TO DO IT.

I HAD A STUPID IDEA FOR A WAY TO DO IT THAT SOMEBODY.

>> MAR REST WARNER.

>> MARGARET WARNER TALKED ME OUT OF IT.

I WANTED TO DO IT WITH A DRUM BEAT OR SOMETHING AND SHE SAID NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.

EYSILENCE.

AND SHE WAS RIGHT.

>> IT CATCHES YOUR ATERNGS AND YOU TURN AND WATCH THE NAMES.

>> EXACTLY.

IN A TELEVISION STUDIO AT THE END OF THE PROGRAM WHEN WE HAVE THE HONOR ROLL THINGS GO SILENT.

NOBODY MOVES IF THERE WAS A GUEST THERE IN THE PRIOR SEGMENT THEY REMAIN SEAT AND IT IS PART OF OUR THING AND I FEEL STRONGLY THAT NO MATTER WHAT ANYBODY THINKS ABOUT WAR OR THIS PARTICULAR WAR IN IRAQ OR THE ACTIONS IN AFGHANISTAN, THESE FOLKS ARE DYING IN OUR NAME.

AND THE LEAST THEY ARE ENTITLED TO IS FIVE SECONDS AT THE END OF THE NEWS HOUR ON PBS.

>> THERE AREN'T THAT MANY REPORTERS IN THIS AREA WHO SERVED IN THE MILITARY.

>>> THERE ARE ONLY TWO OF US AND WE HAVE A O STAFF OF ROUGHLY 85 PEOPLE WHEN YOU COUNT THEM ALL THE EDITORIAL PEOPLE.

>> BRING REPORTERS UP TO SPEED ON THE MILITARY.

>> ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, I BELIEVED IT.

AS LONG AS THAT IS NOT THE ONLY THING YOU USE TO COVER THE WAR BUT IT AS TERRIFIC THING TO DO AND FOR THAT REASON.

>> THE LATEST BOOK THE PHONY MARINE IS ABOUT A MARINE OR A MAN WHO WISHES HE COULD HAVE BEEN A MARINE AND IN THE ACTUAL -- SHOCKING -- FINDS IT SHOCKINGLY EASIA TO ACQUIRE A MEDAL ONLUN ONLINE TO GIVE HIM THAT FEELING.

WHY DID YOU WANT TO WRITE THIS BOOK?

>> THERE ARE GREAT WAVES OF RESPECT AND PRESTIGE THAT GO WITH A COUPLE OF THINGS.

TO ME.

COMPLY WAY WHEN I TELL PEOPLE OR PEOPLE FIND OUT THAT I WAS A UNITED STATES MARINE AND AN INFANTRY OFFICER PEOPLE LOOK AT ME DIFFERENTLY.

NOW, I HAD AN EXPERIENCE AFTER A BOOK I ROAD ABOUT A BATTLE IN A CIVIL WAR CALLED NO UNCERTAIN REST IT WAS AN ARCHAEOLOGIST FOR THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE WHO HELPED ME DO THE RESEARCH AND HE HAD BEEN IN VIETNAM IN COMBAT WITH THE ARMY AND ASKED ME TO MAKE A SPEECH TO SOME OF HIS COLLEAGUES AT THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE AND ON THE WAY OVER HE PICKED ME UP AND WAS TAKING ME TO A COUPLE HUNDRED PEOPLE AT THE LUNCHEON AND ON THE WAY OVER HE WAS GOING OVER MY BIOGRAPHY AND SAID I DIDN'T REALIZE YOU WERE A MARINE.

I DIDN'T FINISH BY THE TIME WE GOT THERE.

HE STARTS AND INTRODUCES ME AND HE SAYS THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS YOU PROBABLY KNOW ABOUT THIS GUY JAMEY CHARLES LEHRER HERE BUT ONE THING YOU DON'T KNOW IS THAT HE WAS AN INFANTRY OFFICER IN COMBAT IN THE KOREAN WAR.

AND I SAW THE LOOK ON THE FACES AND THEY LOOKED AT ME OH, MY GOD, WITH GREAT -- WITH A RESPECT THAT I JUST.

>> GOOD CHOICE AT THAT POINT.

>> THE PROBLEM WAS, I DIDN'T WANT TO CORRECT HIM.

I DON'T WANT TO GET UP THERE.

I WANTED THEM TO THINK I HAD BEEN THAT.

I RELUCTANTLY DID CORRECT HIM BUT IT STUCK IN MY MIND AND I HAD SEEN PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOTTEN RESPECT FOR THINGS THEY DIDN'T AND THAT IS WHAT KIND OF LED KNEE THIS IDEA OF SOMEBODY RECREATING THEMSELVES AS A MARINE.

>> AND WE WON'T GIVE IT AWAY BUT AS TIME PROGRESSES AND THINGS SNOWBALL.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> HE STARTS REGRETTING THE OBFUSCATION.

>> AND IF SOMEBODY EXPECTS YOU TO ACT LIKE A JERK YOU ACT LIKE A JERK AND PEOPLE EXPECT YOU TO ACT LIKE A GOOD PERSON YOU ACT LIKE A PERSON.

>> ANYBODY THAT GOES IN COMBAT, PREPARING A TRUCK OR DOING MEDICAL CARE THEY ARE SERVING THEIR COUNTRY.

>> ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

LOATH TO GIVE YOUR OPINION ON ANYTHING YOU COVER AND YOU ARE SCRUPULOUS ABOUT THIS BUT ONE AREA YOU HAVE BEEN OUTSPOKEN ON AND IT IS AN OUTGROWTH OF YOUR SERVICE AS A MARINE IS YOUR DESIRE TO SEE SOME SORT OF NATIONAL SERVICE REQUIREMENT IN THE COUNTRY.

BE IT MILITARY PEACE CORPS.

>> YES.

>> SOMETHING WHERE PEOPLE SERVE THE COUNTRY.

>> I BELIEVE THAT STRONGLY FOR TWO REASONS.

FIRST OF ALL, BECAUSE OF THE EFFECT IT HAS HAD ON ME AND HOW IT KIND OF CONNECTED ME FOREVER TO THE WORLD.

AND IT CONNECTED ME AND IT MADE ME REALIZE THAT THERE IS MORE TO THE WORLD THAN ME AND MY LITTLE WHATEVERS AND AS I SAID EARLIER, I LEARNED HOW TO BE RESPONSIBLE AND HOW TO DEPEND ON OTHER PEOPLE AND HOW TO HANDLE PEOPLE DEPENDING ON ME, ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF.

>> GETS YOU OUT OF YOUR COMFORT ZONE, TOO.

>> EXACTLY.

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

THAT PART OF IT.

BUT THE OTHER PART IS THAT WHAT THE MARINE CORPS DID IS FOREVER ELIMINATE ALL CLICHES.

SOMEBODY SAID WELL, HE IS JUST A LEFT-HANDED SON OF A TEXAS BILLION AIR AND I WAS IN THE MARINE CORPS WITH ONE OF THEM.

OH, HE IS JUST SOME POOR KID FROM BROOKLYN.

I WAS IN THE MARINE CORPSITH ONE OF THEM.

BY THE TIME YOU SERVE ANY KIND OF PUBLIC SERVICE YOU COME ACROSS ANY KIND OF PERSON THERE IS.

>> MA EASTERN CORPSES PEACE CORPS.

>> ANYTHING.

>> I HAVE BEEN VERY CAREFUL BUT NOT BEING SPECIFIC ABOUT IT BUT I THINK WHAT I -- WHAT REALLY DRIVES ME TO -- IT IS MY OWN EXPERIENCE BUT ALSO DRIVES -- I PROFESSIONALLY MY OBSERVATION IS THAT WE ARE INCREASINGLY BECOMING MORE AND MORE DISCONNECTED AS PEOPLE, AS AMERICANS.

WE HAVE LESS IN COMMON WITH EACH OTHER.

FEWER SHARED EXPERIENCES.

AND I THINK THAT IF WE HANDLED THIS NATIONAL SERVICE RIGHT, IN OTHER WORDS, WHERE IT WAS MANDATORY AND COVERED EVERYBODY AND THERE WAS NO EXEMPTIONS OR DEFERMENTS AND IT WASN'T JUST THE MILITARY.

COULD BE THE PEACE CORPS, HOSPITAL CORPS, POLICE CORPS, ALL KINDS OF WAYS OF DOING IT.

>> WHY HASN'T THAT HAPPENED?

I HAVE INTERVIEWED OTHER PEOPLE HAYES JOHNSON WHO HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR DECADES.

OTHER PEOPLE FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT IT.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

WHY CAN'T IT?

>> THE SIMPLE REASON TO BE DIRECT ABOUT IT IS, IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN UNTIL SOME POLITICAL CANED DALET OR PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE HAS GOT TO TAKE THIS UNDER HIS OR OTHER WING AND SAY THIS IS AN IDEA, HERE IS AN IDEA.

LET'S DEBATE IT.

I'M NOT SAYING LET'S ADOPT IT.

I'M SAYING LET'S TALK ABOUT IT AND NOBODY HAS DONE THAT YET.

>> IN THE MEANTIME, BEFORE THIS HAPPENS HOW DO WE GET MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN CIVIC LIFE?

NUMEROUS SUR RAYS INDICATED THAT PEOPLE KIND OF CHECKED OUT OF FOLLOWING WHAT IS GOING ON IN GOVERNMENT OR EVEN PARTICIPATING IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

I KNOW THE PROGRAMS LIKE THE NEWSHOUR CAN ENCOURAGE THAT AND YOUR WEBSITE DOES.

>> THIS A A DIFFICULT TIME.

THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE DISCONNECTION.

WE ARE DIVIDING YOU OURSELVES UP INTO LITTLE BOXES AND TARGET GROUPS AND BACKLOGS AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF AND PROLIFERATION I THINK A HEALTHY THING A PROLIFERATION OF WAYS TO GET NEW INFORMATION AND FACILITATE THE DEBATES AND DISCUSSIONS ALSO FA SIL FACILITATED THIS DIVISION AND WE ARE NOT TALKING TO EACH OTHER ABOUT ANYTHING WE DISAGREE ON.

WE ARE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE THINGS THAT WE DO AGREE ON AND WE ONLY ARE WITH PEOPLE JUST LIKE US AND THINK JUST LIKE US AND WE TUNED OUT THE WHOLE PROCESS OF LISTENING AND A LOT OF THIS, THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF CAUSES, I DON'T THINK THERE ARE VILL LANES INVOLVED AND A LOT OF PPLE IN OUR LINE OF WORK AND OUR RACKET WHO ARE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO TALK LOUDLY AND TALK OVER EACH OTHER BOTH FIGURATIVELY AND OTHERWISE.

JUSTE ARE THE POLITICS, WE WENT THROUGH THIS IN THIS CAMPAIGN WHERE -- YOU KNOW, I'M RELUCTANT TO I SAY IT WAS NASTIEST POLITICAL CAMPAIGN I HAVE EVER SEEN.

I DON'T THINK IT WAS.

HOWEVER, I HAVE NEVER SEEN ONE AT LEAST ONE WHERE THE STUFF THAT WE COVERED ON THE NEWSHOUR AND WE COVERED A LOT OF THE RACES AROUND THE COUNTRY WHERE NEGATIVISM LED THE WAY AND SOMETHING THAT SOMEBODY DID 20 YEARS AGO INNOCENTLY BECOMES A HUGE, HUGE NEGATIVE.

FORGET WHAT THIS PERSON IS RUNNING ON NOW.

FORGET WHAT THE PLATFORM IS OR WHAT THE ISSUES OF THE DAY ARE.

>> YOU'RE SAYING SOMETIMES WHEN PEOPLE WATCH THIS TYPE OF PROGRAM THEY BECOME DISILLUSIONED AND CLOCK OUT.

>> THERE WAS A HAPPY SIGN AND THAT WAS THE ELECTION RESULTS THEMSELVES.

>> GOOD TURNOUT.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE PARTICIPATED.

FORGET RIGHT WING POLITICS AND LEFT WING POLITICS, WINGS GET TOGETHER AND GET SOMETHING DONE.

>> ONE BIG ASPECT OF CIVIC LIFE AS YOU MENTIONED IS VOTING.

I BELIEVE OR UNDERSTAND THAT YOU DON'T VOTE.

>> THAT IS NOT LITERALLY TRUE.

I HAVE -- THERE IS A CLICHE ABOUT JOURNAL I AM AND I SUPPORT IT 100%.

EVERYBODY THAT GOES INTO JOURNALISM SHOULD HAVE A COUPLE THREE STORIES WRITTEN ABOUT THEM JUST SO TEE WHAT IT IS LIKE.

>> THEY SHOULD BE MISQUOTED, MISAGED AND MISBORN SO THAT THEY KNOW WHAT IS FEELS LIKE TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE.

>> ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

I HAVE A LITTLE GUIDELINE IN MY JOURNALISM GUIDELINES THAT I USE THAT I TALK ABOUT A LOT AND ONE OF THEM IS COVER EVERY STORY WITH THE SAME CARE YOU WOULD WANT IF IT WAS ABOUT YOU.

ANY HOWE, BEFORE A PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE, TWO OR THREE CYCLES AGO, PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CYCLES A GO A REPORTER ASKED ME ABOUT VOTING AND ALL THAT AND I TOLD THE STORY I POLITICS IN DALLAS, TEXAS.

THE EDITOR OF THE DALLAS HERALD THE AFTERNOON PAPE IRAND YOU WALKED IN IN THE PRIMARY IN THE SCHOOL A IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND HAD TO DECLARE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT AND EVERYBODY KNEW WHAT MY JOB WAS AND POLITICS WERE VESA VEER TO PUT IT MILDLY.

I TURNED AROUND AND DIDN'T VOTE FOR A FEW CYCLES BECAUSE OF THAT.

IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO DO IT AND THAT IS ALL I TOLD THE GUY.

FROM THAT POINT ON, YOU KNOW, IT A PERSONAL ISSUE AND I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT ANY MORE.

IT GOT OUT THAT I DIDN'T VOTE AND WHATEVER.

AND THERE ARE JOURNALISTS WHO DON'T WANT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO CLOUD THEIR THINKING AND THERE ARE MANY WHO DO.

I THINK THAT IS UP TO INDIVIDUALS.

I DON'T THINK -- >> HAVE YOU VOTED SINCE THEN?

>> OH, SURE, OH, SURE.

>> IN YOUR BOOKS, THOUGH, YOU ARE ABLE TO TALK A LITTLE MORE OR TAKE A FEW MORE JOBS IN YOUR NOVELS THAN YOU ARE ABLE TO IN THIS PERSONA.

I KNOW THE ONE EYED MAX THEORY THAT YOU HAVE WHICH IS ABOUT LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

A FEW POT SHOTS AT WHAT YOU SEE AS KIND OF THE DEGRADATION OF POLITICS AND JURISDICTIONISM.

I THINK YOU GOT SOME SHOTS IN THOSE BOOKS.

>> YEAH, I HAVE ALWAYS SAID THAT I -- IT IS A MATTER OF FUNCTION AND ON THE NEWS HOUR MY FUNCTION IS TO ASK QUESTIONS AND PRESENT THINGS IN SUCH A WAY THAT THE VIEWER CAN SAY -- MAKE HIS OR HER JUDGMENT ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON.

WHEN I WRITE MY NOVELS I'M CAREFUL TO STAY AWAY FROM POLITICS IN ISSUE WAYS.

>> YOU.

>> I GET MY LICKS IN.

>> YOU GET YOUR LICKS IN.

>> VERY FUN.

>> IN YOUR MEMOIR WHICH IS WONDERFUL AND I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO READ A BUST OF MY OWN YOU TALK OPENLY ABOUT THE CRITICISM LOVED AT YOU RAB -RABID EVEN HANDEDNESS.

YOU AND MR.

LEHRER ON THE ONE HAND AND ON THE OTHER HAND OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> RIGHT.

>> HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT, THAT YOU ARE SO FAIR AND EVEN HANDED IN GIVING BOTH SIDES THAT PEOPLE CAN'T TELL WHICH IS RIGHT?

>> WELL, THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM.

AND I MEAN THAT LITERALLY.

THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM.

MY FUNCTION AS I SEE IT AND "THE NEWSHOUR" FUNCTION IS HERE IS AN ISSUE.

SOCIAL SECURITY REFORM.

HERE IS WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS PROPROSING.

HERE IS WHAT THE CRITICS SAY.

HERE ARE THE OTHER AIL TERPTIVES AND -- ALTERNATIVES AND YOU DECIDE.

>> YOUR COLLEAGUE SAID WHY SHOULD I PRESENT BOTH SIDES WHEN ONE SIDE IS SO OBVIOUSLY WRONG IN HIS VIEW.

>> HE AND I HAVE VERY DIFFERENT VIEWS.

THERE ARE SEVERAL IN MY OPINION LEGITIMATE, NOT SEVERAL, TWO OR THREE VERY LEGITIMATE FUNCTIONS ARE JOURNALISM.

STRAIGHT NEWS REPORTING.

ANALYSIS JOURNALISM AND THEN THERE IS OPINION JOURNALISM.

I'M IN THE STRAIGHT NEWS PART OF THAT.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE ANALYSIS -- WE HAVE ANALYSIS PEOPLE ON THE PROGRAM AND OPINION PEOPLE.

>> VEHICLES, YEAH.

>> MY OBJECTION AND I FEEL THIS VERY STRONGLY AND I DON'T CARE IF IT'S -- WHO SAYS OTHERWISE, I WILL SAY THIS, I DON'T THINK ALL THREE OF THOSE FUNCTIONS SHOULD BE DONE BY THE SAME PERSON.

THE PERSON WHO LOOKS AT THE CAMERA AND SAYS HERE IS THE NEWS OF THE DAY ABOUT SO AND SO SHOULD NOT THEN SAY LET ME TELL YOU WHAT THIS MEANS AND BY THE WAY, LET ME TELL YOU WHAT YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT IT.

I THINK THE REPORTING AND THE ANALYSIS AND THE OPINION SHOULD BE SEPARATE AND THEY SHOULD BE CLEARLY HABLED AND DONE BY -- LABELED AND DONE BY DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

>> I INTERVIEWED ROBIN MAC NI EIL AND HE FEELS SINCE HE REFERRED HE CAN EXPRESS THE OPINIONS.

MOST CLICHES ARE CLICHES BECAUSE THERE IS AN AMOUNT OF TRUTH TO IT.

I FOUND THAT THE MORE YOU KNOW ABOUT A SUBJECT THE LESS OPINIONIATED YOU ARE ABOUT IT.

IN ORDER TO DO MY FUNCTION I HAVE TO DO A LOT ABOUT A CERTAIN SUBJECT AND ONCE YOU SAID FEEL A STORY GOING INTO THE COURTROOM, WHEN I STARTED AS A CRIMINAL COURT REPORTER IN TEXAS AND THE MURDER CASE, THE PROSECUTION PUT THE CASE ON AND I SAID HEY, TAKE HIM AND FRY HIM, YOU KNOW.

THEN THE DEFENSE COMES ON AND SAYS THEY GOT THE WRONG GUY AND THEN YOU LOOK AT THE JURY AND THEY HAVE GOT TO MAKE THE DECESSION.

ANYHOW -- DECISION.

I DOUBT SERIOUSLY IF I WILL BE EXPRESSING A LOT OF OPINIONS WHEN I'M FINISHED BECAUSE IT IS NOT THE WAY I LOOK AT THINGS.

>> YOU HAVE WRITTEN AS WELL IN YOUR MEMOIR THAT JOURNALISTS ARE IN A DYNAMITE HANDLING BUSINESS AND THEY CAN DO EXTRAORDINARY DAMAGE IF THEY GET IT WRONG.

>> YOU BET.

>> BETTER TO ERR ON THE SAFE SIDE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> YOU MODERATED TEN DEBATES IN THE LAST FIVE ELECTION CYCLES.

WE HAVE A LOT OF DEBATES HERE, TOO AND STARTING TO NOTICE CANDIDATES BACKING OUT OF DEBATES IF THEY ARE IN THE DOMINANT PARTY OR JUST MAYBE DOING ONE IN THE WHOLE STATE.

AS A MODERATOR OF DEBATES OVER TIME DO YOU FEEL THAT POLITICIANS HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO DO DEBATES?

>>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> AS KIND OF A JOB INTERVIEW?

>> I THINK IT SHOULD BE A REQUIREMENT.

AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL I THINK ANY CANDIDATE WHO TAKES PUBLIC MONEY AS THEY DO AS CANDIDATES SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO DO AER ACERTAIN NUMBER OF DEBATES.

PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES THERE IS NO WAY THEY CAN RUN FOR PRESIDENT AND NOT DO DEBATES SO THAT IS KIND OF OFF THE TABLE.

BOTTOM LINE IS YES, I THINK ANYBODY WHO RUNS AT THE STATE LEVEL, LOCAL LEVEL, THINK THAT DEBATES ARE AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THE PROCESS NO MATTER WHAT THE RULES ARE, NO MATTER WHAT THE GUIDELINES ARE, THE BOTTOM LINE IS YOU HAVE CANDIDATE, YOU HAVE BILLY BOB HERE AND SAMMY SUE HERE ON THE SAME STAGE AT THE SAME TABLE AT THE SAME TIME TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING THAT IS GOOD FORT PROCESS -- FOR THE PROCESS.

>> SHOULD THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATES ALWAYS BE ADMITTED?

>> THOSE ARE THINGS I THINK THE OTHERS CAN DECIDE.

>> YOU HAVE HAD SOME FUNNY THINGS HAPPEN OVER TIME IN LIVE TELEVISION.

ANOTHER THING I LIKED ABOUT YOUR MEMOIR IS IT HAD A LOT OF HUMOR IN IT.

GOODNESS GRACIOUS.

PEOPLE SHOWING UP DRUNK FOR THE STORY.

>> LIVE TELEVISION IS -- IT BRINGS OUT ONE OR TWO THINGS HAPPEN TO YOU.

YOU QUIT DOING IT QUESTION QUICKLY, OR IT ALWAYS KEEPS YOU ALERT.

ON YOUR A TOES.

>> NOBODY EVER SAYS WE GOT ONLY DO THIS ONCE WITH THE NEWSHOAR AND THEY ARE TOLD TO SHUT UP AND NEVER SAY IT AGAIN REDTY TO GO, IT WILL BE A GREAT PROGRAM BECAUSE AT THAT TIME YOU LOSE SOUND.

>> OR THE GUEST GETS DRUNK AND TRIES TO PUT AN EEAR PIECE IN HIS NOSE.

>> THE WORSE THING IS FOR A GUEST TO FREEZE.

WE HAD A QUICK STORY THAT HAPPENED TO MACNEIL, THANK GOD, AND NOT ME.

WE HAD THE WORLD'S GREATEST EXPERT ON GRAIN ELEVATOR SAFETY WHO WAS ON AFTER SEVERAL PEOPLE WERE KILLED IN A GRAIN ELEVATOR ACCIDENT.

HE INTERVIEWED HIM FOR SEVEN MINUTES AND HE NEVER SPOKE A WORD.

>> WELL, BUT YOU REPORT YOU HAD SOMETHING.

MACNEIL QUOTING FROM THE REPORT GOT BOTH SIDES AND ALL THE INFORMATION OUT IN 7 OR 8 MINUTES AND THE MAN NEVER SAID A WORLD.

>> TO YOU STILL GET NERVOUS SOMETIMES?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SHOW ME SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T GET NERVOUS DOING THIS KIND OF WORK AND I WILL SHOW YOU SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T DO IT VERY WELL.

THE BLOOD HAS TO RUN TO THE BRAIN AND ONE OF THE WAYS YOU GET IT TO RUN THERE IS MY GOD, THIS IS IMPORTANT STUFF AND I CAN MAKE A FOOL OF MYSELF ON TELEVISION AND I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

>> WELL, WE HAVE ONLY THREE MINUTES LEFT.

THIS IS LIVE TELEVISION UNFORTUNATELY, IN SOME RESPECTS IT GOES SO FAST.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN YOUR LIFE.

A HEART ATTACK IN 1983 JUST AS THE PROGRAM WENT TO AN HOUR AND IT CHANGED YOUR LIFE IN SO MANY WAYS.

FOR ONE THING, YOU GAVE UP SMEKING BUT YOU -- SMOKING BUT ALSO WROTE OUT A LIST OF THE PRIORITIES WHICH INCLUDED TO LOVE, TO RELAX AND TO WRITE.

AS WE SAID YOU HAVE WRITTEN 16 BOOKS.

WHAT DOES THIS WRITING DO FOR YOU THAT MADE YOU PUT IT AT THE TOP OF THE LIST FOR YOUR RECOVERY?

>> WHAT IT DOES FOR ME, TAKES ME AGAIN OUT OF MYSELF AND PUSHES ME TO THE LIMIT OF MY CREATIVE ABILITIES AND FORCES ME TO CREATE PEOPLE AND SITUATIONS AND DILEMMAS AND IT MAKES ME LAUGH WHEN I CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, A FUNNY SITUATION, MAKES ME CRY WHEN I COME UP WITH SAD THINGS AND IT IS -- IT IS -- IT IS -- I'M JUST SO FORTUNATE TO BE STORIES AND GET PEOPLE TOUP PUBLISH THEM AND ALSO TAKES THE HEAT OFF MY FUNCTION AT THE NEWS HOUR.

IN OTHER WORDS, I DON'T HAVE TO SIT THERE OH, WELL, I CAN'T EXPRESS MYSELF.

I HAVE MY WRITING IF I WANT TO EXPRESS MYSELF.

I'M NOT TALKING POLITICS HERE.

JUST GENERALLY.

>> OUT LET.

>> YEAH.

>> I KNOW ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU DO IS TAKE A NAP EVERY DAY.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> AND ALSO WE HAVE ONE MINUTE LEFT YOU ARE FRANKLY OB SEELED WITH BUSES.

>> YOUR DAD WAS IN THE BUS BUSINESS AND YOU WERE A TICKET AGENT AND WE HAVE A PICTURE OF YOU WITH A CHERISHED BUS THAT YOU BOUGHT.

>> RIGHT.

>> IN ADDITION TO BUS MEMORABILIA, BUSES FOR YOU AND GROWING UP IN THE BUSINESS HELPED DEFINE YOU AS A JOURNALIST BECAUSE YOU SAW SO MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND THEIR STORIES.

>> I WORKED IN THE BUS DEPOT AS A TICKET AGENT AND THIS WAS IN THE 50'S IN VICTORIA TEXAS AND I USED TO CALL THE BUSES, THE FIRST TIME I SPOKE INTO A MICROPHONE FOR A LIVING MAY I HAVE YOUR ATEX, PLEASE, LAST CALL FOR COTTON LEVEL AIRWAYS TO HOUSTON NOW LEAVING FROM LANE ONE.

ELCAMPO, PIERRE AND BEASLEY, STAFFORD, MISSOURI CITY.ARLAND, >> CONNECTING IN HOUSTON FOR BUFFALO, COURSE CAN THAT, DALLAS, FORT WORTH, AMARILLO, DEN *FR DENVER AND SALT LAKE CITY AND DENVER ALL ABOARDECTOMY DON'T FORGET YOUR BACKAGE PLEASE.

>> THAT IS AWESOME AND WONDERFUL.

>> A VERY NICE WORD TO USE FOR THAT, THANK YOU.

>> MR.

LEHRER.

>> JIM, MEES.

>> I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> JIM, PLEASE.

>> I APPRECIATE THE TIME YOU HAVE TAKEN WITH US TODAY FOR THE VIEWERS AND THANK THE IDAHO COMMUNITY COUNCIL FOR MAKING TIME IN YOUR SCHEDULE TO DO THE INTERVIEW.

WE HOPE YOU HAVE A WONDERFUL STAY NEAR IDAHO AND COME BACK AND VISIT US AGAIN.

>> I WILL.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.