>>> IDAHO IS NEAR THE BOTTOM IN THE NUMBER OF HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS THAT GO ON TO COLLEGE.

WHY?

WHAT ARE THE ROADBLOCKS TO HIGHER EDUCATION?

AND TAKING EVERYTHING INTO CONSIDERATION, IS COLLEGE WORTH IT?

JOIN THE DISCUSSION.

"DIALOGUE" IS NEXT.

HELLO.

I'M JOAN CARTAN-HANSEN.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US HERE ON IDAHO PUBLIC TELEVISION, ON THE WORLDWIDE WEB AND ON PUBLIC RADIO STATIONS.

RESEARCHERS THINK BY 2018, 63% OF ALL JOBS IN AMERICA WILL REQUIRE AT LEAST SOME COLLEGE EDUCATION.

YET ONLY ABOUT 40% OF YOUNG AMERICANS HAVE EARNED A POST-SECONDARY DEGREE.

BECAUSE OF THAT GAP, PUBLIC OFFICIALS AND BUSINESSES ARE PUSHING FOR A MORE EDUCATED WORK FORCE.

YET MANY STILL WONDER IF COLLEGE IS WORTH IT.

IDAHO RANKS 48th IN THE NATION IN THE NUMBER OF HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS GOING ON TO COLLEGE.

WHY?

WELL, ONE REASON MIGHT BE MONEY.

IN 1992, THE AVERAGE TUITION AT A PUBLIC FOUR-YEAR UNIVERSITY COST 7.6% OF THE NATIONAL MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME.

TODAY THAT COST IS 13%.

FROM 2001-2007, AFTER INFLATION, COLLEGE COSTS ROSE 75%.

NOW MONEY ISN'T THE ONLY ROAD BLOCK.

FAMILY OBLIGATIONS, DISTANCE, AND EVEN THE ATTITUDE THAT THERE IS NO WAY TO GET INTO COLLEGE CAN STOP A YOUNG PERSON FROM EVEN TRYING.

SO JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS WAYS OF REMOVING THOSE ROADBLOCKS ARE THREE GUESTS.

KEN EDMUNDS IS THE VICE CHAIR OF THE IDAHO STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> SUE HUIZINGA IS THE TRIO PROJECT DIRECTOR AT BOISE STATE UNIVERSITY.

SHE OVERSEES A NUMBER OF FEDERAL PROGRAMS DESIGNED TO WORK WITH FIRST-TIME COLLEGE FAMILIES AND LIMITED INCOME STUDENTS TO GET AND KEEP THEM IN HIGHER EDUCATION.

SUE, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> NICE TO BE HERE.

>> AND COURT HANSON IS BOISE HIGH SCHOOL'S CAREER COUNSELOR.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

AND WE WANT YOU TO JOIN THE CONVERSATION.

GIVE US A CALL TOLL FREE AT 1-800-973-9800.

LET'S START BY GOING AROUND THE TABLE AND ASK WHY MORE IDAHO KIDS AREN'T GOING TO HIGH SCHOOL.

YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE FRONT LINES.

YOU HAVE ONE MORE DAY OF SCHOOL.

>> WE DO.

WE SURVIVED ANOTHER YEAR.

>> WHY DON'T YOU THINK MORE KIDS ARE GOING ON TO COLLEGE?

>> I DO COME FROM A SCHOOL WHERE WE HAVE -- >> BOISE HIGH IS A, ALMOST A POSTER CHILD FOR THAT.

>> YEAH, AND MOST OF THE BOISE PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS DO PRETTY WELL.

IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF ABOUT 70%.

BUT IF WE LOOK AT THOSE THAT DON'T, EACH YEAR AROUND 100 STUDENTS CHOOSE NOT TO GO.

I THINK CERTAINLY THE MONEY ISSUE FOR SOME OF THEM.

THEY JUST FEEL THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT.

BUT ALSO I THINK THERE'S A GROUP OF STUDENTS WHO JUST DON'T SEE THAT COLLEGE IS A FIT.

THEY WANT TO PURSUE OTHER AVENUES.

THEY WANT TO GO TO WORK RIGHT AWAY.

THEY WANT TO GET THAT CAR.

THEY WANT TO GO OUT AND EXPERIENCE THE WORLD.

>> SUE, HOW ABOUT YOU?

THE FAMILIES YOU WORK WITH, WHY IS COLLEGE SOMETIMES A DISTANT DREAM?

>> FOR THE FAMILIES IN THE TRIO PROGRAMS, THE MAJORITY OF FAMILIES COME FROM LIMITED, STUDENTS COME FROM LIMITED OH NOAK FAMILIES OR THE AFFORDABILITY ISSUE IS THE FIRST ONE AND ALSO ACCESS.

A LOT OF STUDENTS NEED TO STAY WITH THEIR FAMILIES SO THEY CAN CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THEM.

AND THEY MAY BE LIVING IN RURAL AREAS, AND NOT ABLE TO GET TO THE COLLEGES THAT THEY ARE INTERESTED IN GOING TO OR TO GET TO ANY COLLEGE AS FAR AS THAT IS.

AND THEY JUST NORTH REALLY SURE HOW TO NAVIGATE THE SYSTEM.

THEIR PARENTS HAVEN'T GONE TO COLLEGE, EVERY QUESTION FEELS LIKE A HUGE QUESTION TO THEM.

THEY JUST NEED TO START GETTING THAT INFORMATION EARLY ON SO THAT COLLEGE BECOMES PART OF THEIR LIFE AND PART OF THEIR CULTURE.

>> I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.

WHEN WE LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH OUR YOUTH AND HOW THEY TRANSITION IN, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A BAD GRADUATION RATE FROM HIGH SCHOOL.

IT'S COMPARABLE WITH THE NATIONAL AVERAGES, AND BETTER THAN A LOT OF STATES.

BUT THEN WE HAVE THIS BIG DROPOFF GOING INTO COLLEGE, AND WE EVEN HAVE A GREATER PROBLEM WITH RETENTION ONCE THEY GET THERE.

THAT'S BEEN A GREAT CONCERN.

WE DON'T REALLY KNOW ALL THE REASONS WHY WE'RE NOT GETTING THE COLLEGE.

I HAVE ACTUALLY PROBABLY BEEN MORE CONCERNED WHY WE ARE NOT KEEPING THEM ONCE WE GET THEM THERE.

A LOT OF TIMES IT GOES BACK TO THE MONEY.

>> MONEY, THAT POPS UP ALL THE TIME.

LET'S RUN THROUGH SOME NUMBERS.

THE PEW CENTER CAME UP WITH REPORTS ON HOW MUCH COLLEGE COSTS.

ON THE AVERAGE 2010-ELLEN TUITION AND FEES FOR A TWO-YEAR PUBLIC SCHOOL WAS $2710.

A FOUR-YEAR IN STATE PUBLIC SCHOOL AVERAGE ACROSS THE NATION, ABOUT $7,610.

FOUR-YEAR OFF THE STATE PUBLIC SCHOOL WAS ABOUT $19,000, AND A FOUR-YEAR PRIVATE NOT FOR PROFIT SCHOOL WAS $27,290.

THOSE NUMBERS SEEM TO ME AS SOMEBODY WHO IS PAYING OUT OF STATE COLLEGE TUITION SEEM A LITTLE LOW.

IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE FINDING, TOO?

>> THE AVERAGES DON'T REALLY TELL THE STORY.

THE FAMILIES I'M WORKING WITH, WE HAVE CLOSE TO 51% OF THE STUDENTS THIS YEAR WANT TO GO OUT OF STATE.

AND SO I'M THINKING THEIR AVERAGE IS CLOSER TO $35,000 FOR A STATE UNIVERSITY, $25,000 TO $35,000.

EVEN STAYING IN STATE, IF YOU WANT TO GO UP TO U OF I AT $14,000 YOU ARE MAYBE PELL GRANT ELIGIBLE, THAT'S GOING TO KNOCK OFF $5,000 OR SO DOLLARS.

THERE'S STILL SOME MONEY TO FIGURE OUT WHERE DO I COME UP WITH THAT?

>> AND MAYBE $6,000 IN STUDENT LOANS.

SO YOU ARE STILL SHORT A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS.

YOU CAN STILL, IT COULD STILL BE A ROAD BLOCK.

>> EVEN $1,000 FOR BOOKS FOR SOME STUDENTS.

>> COUNTING BOOKS.

>> IS INSURMOUNTABLE.

>> WE HAD THE DISCUSSIONS THIS YEAR FOR TUITION, I KNOW ONE OF THE UNIVERSITIES WAS SAYING, WELL, IT'S ONLY $50 A MONTH.

AND A LOT OF THE STUDENTS ARE EVEN RALLYING BEHIND SAYING I WILL GIVE UP MY COFFEE EACH DAY IN ORDER TO PAY THAT $50 MORE A MONTH.

I'M THINKING, YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT HERE.

THAT'S $600 ON TOP OF $600 OR $700 LAST YEAR AND IT'S THE ACUMULATIVE EFFECT IS SIGNIFICANT.

IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT PAINFUL TO A STUDENT WHO IS IN COLLEGE WHEN THEY TWEL THEM THE TUITION INCREASES THERE BUT SOMEBODY COMING INTO THE SYSTEM IT IS PAINFUL.

OUR MEDIAN INCOME IS SUCH THAT IT'S VERY CHALLENGING IN IDAHO.

>> THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO CAME OUT WITH A STUDY THAT SHOWED IDAHO'S WORK FORCE EARNS ON THE AVERAGE $11,000 LESS PER EMPLOYEE THAN ACROSS THE NATION.

SO WE ARE ALREADY A STATE THAT HAS A LOW SALARY.

EVEN THOUGH OUR UNIVERSITIES ARE A GOOD BUY RELATIVELY IT'S STILL A GAP.

>> THEY ARE A GOOD BUY.

I WOULD NOT WANT ANYBODY TO HAVE THE IMPRESSION THAT WE SHOULD BEAT UP ON THE IDAHO UNIVERSITIES.

>> NO, NO.

>> IT'S THE BEST VALUE AROUND.

OUR TUITION IS LOWER, OUR COST OF LIVING IS LOWER.

IT'S JUST THE OVERALL IMPACT AND WHERE DO THEY COME UP WITH THE MONEY IS THE CHALLENGE.

>> AS FINANCIAL AID CHANGES OVER THE YEARS, TOO, STUDENTS REALLY NEED TO BE INFORMED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

SO CONGRESS WANTED TO REDUCE THE PELL GRANTS THIS YEAR BY $800 WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN BUT THEY HAVE PUT SOME TIGHTER RESTRICTIONS ON STUDENTS BEING ABLE TO USE THAT MONEY IF THEY ARE REPEATING A CLASS, FOR REMEDIATION CLASSES.

SO THEY REALLY NEED TO BE HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THE FINANCIAL AID OFFICERS AT THEIR INSTITUTION SO THAT THEY ARE NOT CAUGHT WITH SUDDENLY HAVING TO PAY FOR A CLASS BECAUSE THEY ARE RETAKE IT OR BECAUSE OF THE NEW RESTRICTIONS ON FINANCIAL AID.

>> SORRY.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> WE HAVE BECOME MUCH MORE DEPENDENT ON FEDERAL AID TO GET STUDENTS THROUGH.

LAST YEAR THE NUMBERS, WE HAD 5 MILLION STUDENTS RECEIVING $10 BILLION WORTH OF FINANCIAL AID, THE PELL GRANTS.

NUMBERS THIS YEAR, SUPPOSEDLY GOING TO 15 MILLION STUDENTS AND $42 BILLION OF FEDERAL AID.

SO IT'S MUCH MORE THAN EVEN EXPONENTIAL.

AND THAT WAS, WHEN THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT REDUCING THE PELL GRANTS, WE HAVE -- OUR TUITION INCREASES IN IDAHO HAVE PRETTY MUCH BEEN OFFSET BY THE GROWTH IN PELL AVAILABILITY, AND THAT WAS POSSIBLY GOING TO GO AWAY.

AT SOME POINT THAT IS GOING TO GO AWAY.

THEY SAID THE AMOUNT SPENT ON PELL GRANTS IS LARGER THAN EIGHT OF THE FEDERAL AGENCIES, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, OTHERS, WHAT WE SPEND ON PELL GRANTS IS LARGER THAN THAT.

SO THAT WELL IS GOING TO BE TAPPED OUT.

>> AND ALSO YOUR INCOME LEVELS HAVE TO BE FAIRLY LOW TO QUALIFY FOR A PELL GRANT.

SO IF OUR MIDDLE INCOME IDAHOAN, THAT MIGHT MAY NOT BE THAT MUCH HIGH ARE.

YOU MAY NOT QUALIFY FOR A PELL GRANT.

IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE HEAR FROM STUDENTS, HOW AM I GOING TO PAY FOR THIS?

>> A LOT OF EXPECTING THERE ARE GOING TO BE SCHOLARSHIPS THERE.

I AM SEEING A NUMBER OF FAMILIES PRETTY CONCERNED.

THERE'S BEEN THE EXPECTATION IF YOU WORK HARD, YOU GET REALLY GOOD GRADES, GOOD TEST SCORES THERE'S GOING TO BE MONEY FOR YOU THERE IN THE FORM OF SCHOLARSHIPS.

AND WHILE EVEN OUR LOCAL SCHOOLS TRY AND SPREAD THAT SCHOLARSHIP MONEY AROUND, STILL IT'S A NOT WHAT FAMILIES ARE EXPECTING.

FAR FEWER SCHOLARSHIP DOLLARS ARE AVAILABLE.

>> IT IS.

>> IT REALLY FALLS BACK TO THE FAMILIES.

AND EVEN THE MIDDLE CLASS ARE GOING, MY GOODNESS, WE DON'T QUITE HAVE THAT MUCH SET ASIDE.

COLLEGE IS A VERY EMOTIONAL DECISION.

PEOPLE DON'T APPROACH IT SOMETIMES QUITE LOGICALLY.

SOMETIMES I TALK TO SOME OF MY PRESENTATIONS, I THINK FAMILIES RESEARCH THE CARS THEY ARE GOING TO BUY WAY MORE SO THAN THEY RESEARCH THE COLLEGES AND THE COST.

AND REALLY HAVING AN HONEST DISCUSSION WITH THEIR CHILDREN.

IT'S A VERY EMOTIONAL -- >> AND THAT DISCUSSION CAN'T WAIT UNTIL THEIR JUNIOR OR SENIOR YEAR IN HIGH SCHOOL.

IT NEEDS TO START HAPPENING AS EARLY AS FIFTH, SIXTH, SEVENTH GRADE AND TAKING OPPORTUNITIES WHETHER THEY ARE ONLINE, YOU CAN DO A COLLEGE TOUR ONLINE NOW AND SEE WHAT A COLLEGE LOOKS LIKE.

TALK TO ALUMNI, STUDENTS, GO TO THE COLLEGES AND SEE WHETHER THEY ARE GOING TO BE THE FIT AND TALKING TO THE DIFFERENT COLLEGES ABOUT WHAT KIND OF AID PACKET THEY ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO OFFER YOU.

SO THAT YOU CAN AFFORD IT AND SO BECAUSE IT IS EMOTIONAL.

BUT IT'S ALSO GOT TO BE KIND OF LOGICAL, TOO, AND CAN I DO THIS?

CAN I AFFORD IT?

AM I GOING TO GET THERE AND HAVE TO COME HOME BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY?

AND APPLYING FOR SCHOLARSHIPS.

AND THE FINANCIAL AID.

>> THAT GETS BACK TO THE PROCESS BECOMING SO DAUNTING THAT IT SCARES STUDENTS OFF.

>> WHICH IS ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS THE COUNSELORS AT THE HIGH SCHOOL AND MY STAFF AND THE STAFF ACROSS THE STATE IN TRIO DO IS TRY AND HELP STUDENTS WITH JUST NEGOTIATING THAT WHOLE PROCESS, YOU KNOW, WITH THE COLLEGE ACCESS CHALLENGE GRANT AND THE FAFS SA COMPLETION DATES AND REALLY TRYING TO WORK TOWARDS HAVING SOME OF THOSE THINGS DONE BUT AGAIN THEY WERE, STUDENTS MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET THERE BECAUSE THEY WERE IN POCATELLO OR TWIN OR BOISE AND 50, 70, 100 MILES AGLAI LET'S GET OUR FIRST CALLER.

MARK IN BOISE.

MARK.

>> HELLO.

>> HI.

GO AHEAD.

>> FRANKLY, YOU KNOW, WITH THE CONVERSATION, DON'TOU THINK THAT HELPING KIDS THROUGH THE FINANCIAL AID PROCESS AND HELPING KIDS FOCUS ON COLLEGE AND POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION, DON'T YOU THINK THAT WE ARE BASICALLY STRESSING OUR HIGH SCHOOL KIDS OUT TO THE MAX?

THEY GRADUATE AND SAY, YOU KNOW, I DON'T NEED TO STRESS ANYMORE.

I'M DONE WITH IT.

POINTING TO GOING BACK TO FIFTH AND SIXTH GRADE FOR TOURING COLLEGES, ALL THIS STUFF, WHY SHOULD YOU STRESS ELEMENTARY KIDS OUT FOR THIS?

HECK, JUNIOR HIGH IS GOING TO STRESS THEM OUT JUST BY THEMSELVES.

[LAUGHTER] SO WHY ARE YOU TAKING TIME TO DO THAT?

YOU KNOW?

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.

>> IF I COULD RESPOND TO THAT.

>> SURE.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK LOOKING AT IT FROM THE NEGATIVE SIDE.

I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT IT FROM A MORE POSITIVE SIDE.

IF WE CAN BUILD THEIR ENTHUSIASM, GET THEM INTERESTED IN SCIENCE AND OTHER THINGS SO THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE EXCITED ABOUT, WE FIND THAT THOSE STUDENTS WHO TAKE DUAL CREDIT CLASSES HAVE A MUCH HIGHER LIKELIHOOD OF GOING ON AND SUCCEEDING.

AND THEY ARE NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING STRESSED OUT.

THEY ARE ENJOYING IT MORE BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING CHALLENGED.

WE FIND A LOT OF OUR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ARE BORED.

THEY LOSE INTEREST BECAUSE THEY ARE WAITING TO GET OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL.

THEY DON'T SEE THE VISION OF WHERE THEY ARE GOING TO.

AND SO WHEN WE GET KIDS ENTHUSED ABOUT LEARNING AND MAKE IT MUCH MORE PRACTICAL THROUGH WORKING WITH -- WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE FROM INL WHO WILL COME OUT AND PUT ON SCIENCE EXHIBITS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THE KIDS GET EXCITED.

SO I LOOK AT IT FROM A MORE POSITIVE POSITION, I BELIEVE, IN SAYING THAT, LET'S KEEP THEM EXCITED ABOUT EDUCATION.

IT'S HARD TO TELL THEM, OH, YEAH, IF YOU STAY WITH IT YOU ARE GOING TO EARN A LOT MORE MONEY DOWN THE ROAD.

THEY DON'T NECESSARILY RELATE TO THAT INVESTMENT.

BUT IF IT'S SOMETHING INTERESTING TO THEM, THEY CATCH A VISION OF SOMETHING THEY WANT TO DO, THEN IT BECOMES MULCH MORE MEANINGFUL.

>> AND IT MAKES IT REAL.

SO IF A STUDENT IS EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT COLLEGE, WHETHER THEY ARE A SIXTH, EIGHTH, TENTH, OR 12th GRADER AND GET ON A COLLEGE CAMPUS AND SEE PEOPLE LOOK LIKE THEM AND KNOW PEOPLE FROM THEIR COMMUNITY AND THAT PERSON MADE IT, WOW, I COULD LIVE HERE, OR I COULD TAKE THIS CLASS AND IT MAKES IT MULCH MORE COMFORTABLE WHEN THEY GET INTO COLLEGE.

>> WE ARE NOT TALKING JUST MATH OR SCIENCE.

IF WE COULD GET THEM INTERESTED AUTO BODY REPAIR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHERE THEY LEARN, A VALUABLE SKILL.

AND TAKE THAT THROUGH THE REST OF THEIR LIFE.

THAT'S HOW IT'S ALL GOING, HAVE THAT ENTHUSIASM FOR WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

AND IT CAN HAPPEN.

>> NOT EVERYONE IS DESTINED FOR A FOUR-YEAR INSTITUTION.

WE HAVE A NUMBER OF OTHER OPTIONS THAT WILL HELP MOVE TWOSHED THAT PATH.

>> I WOULD AGREE A LITTLE BIT WITH THE IDEA OF KIDS BEING STRESSED.

I SEE IT.

I WORRY ABOUT IT.

>> YEAH.

>> THERE IS A LOT OF PRESSURE TO PERFORM.

BUT WHAT I DO SEE, I THINK IN RESPONSE TO THE QUESTION, IS JUST CHANGING THAT ATTITUDE THAT MAYBE COLLEGE IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY.

BUT I THINK EVERYBODY SHOULD BE READY TO GO IF THEY WANT TO.

AND I SEE STUDENTS COMING IN AT BOISE HIGH IN TENTH GRADE THROUGH 12, AND I SEE NINTH GRADERS COMING IN AS SOPHOMORES AND THEY REALLY HAVEN'T PUT ON THAT MIND-SET THAT I COULD GO TO COLLEGE, OR I SHOULD BE WORKING A LITTLE HARDER.

IT'S HARD TO CHANGE YOUR GPA ONCE YOU HIT THE SOPHOMORE YEAR AND YOU HAVE A 2.5.

I DO THINK WE HAVE TO START A LITTLE SOONER SAYING, THIS IS PRETTY SERIOUS.

YOU NEED TO DO SOME THINGS NOW TO BE READY SHOULD YOU CHOOSE TO GO THAT ROUTE.

>> HOW DID AN OPPORTUNITY, THE MORE OPPORTUNITIES LIKE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE TWO-YEAR COLLEGES, I TALKED TO MY STAFF AND THE THING THAT WE ARE REALLY SEEING, TOO, IS THAT MORE STUDENTS ARE MAKING THAT CHOICE TO ENROLL AT CWI OR TVCC, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THENG GO AND IT WILL BE A SMALLER CAMPUS, AND IT'S LESS EXPENSIVE FOR THEM AND THEN THEY WILL BE ABLE TO MOVE ON TO A FOUR-YEAR INSTITUTION.

SO THAT'S BEEN A REALLY NICE ADDITION, AND AT LEAST IN THIS COMMUNITY.

THAT STUDENTS HAVE THAT OPTION AVAILABLE TO THEM.

>> IF YOU ARE IN SAND OR SAND POINT, YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT PROBLEM.

>> WE HAVE ALWAYS DEFINED HIGHER EDUCATION IN TERMS OF ACCESS, AFFORDABILITY AND QUALITY.

WELL, ACCESS AND AFFORD ABILITY ARE BECOMING MUCH MORE OF AN ISSUE.

IN IDAHO, WE ACTUALLY HAVE A PROBLEM, WE HAVE A LOWER COST TO GO TO THE UNIVERSITY BUT WE ARE TRYING TO PUT TOO MANY OF OUR STUDENTS, IN MY MIND, THROUGH THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM.

WE HAVE ADOPTED A GOAL OF 60%.

YOU SAID 63%.

BUT AS A STATE WE HAVE ADOPTED A GOAL OF 60% DEGREE OR CERTIFICATION AND THAT INCLUDES SOME CERTIFICATIONS ONLY TAKE ONE YEAR BUT THAT ALLOWS THOME HAVE A SKILL SET.

SO WHEN WE ARE LOOKING AT IT AND SAYING, OK, IF WE ARE PUSHING, WELL, THE ACTUAL STATISTICS ARE 48% OF OUR STUDENTS HIGHER EDUCATION STUDENTS ARE GOING THROUGH WHAT WE CALL RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS.

WHEN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IS 22%.

RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS ARE A HIGHER COST WAY OF DOING IT.

THE COMMUNITY COLLEGES AND THE OUTREACH PROGRAMS FROM THE UNIVERSITIES THROUGH THE COMMUNITY COLLEGES ARE MUCH MORE AFFORDABLE.

THE TUITION IS LESS.

YOU ARE TALKING 40% TUITION COST.

MOST OF THEM CAN STAY AT HOME, KEEP JOBS THEY MAY HAVE STARTED WHEN THEY WERE IN HIGH SCHOOL.

WE HAVE TO CHANGE HOW PEOPLE LOOK AT IT AND AFFORDABILITY AND ACCESS IS -- I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT WE REALLY NEED TO LOOK AT EXPENDING -- EXPAND OWRK COMMUNITY COLLEGE PROMISE.

SO WHEN WE SAY WE ARE GOING TO REACH THIS 60% GOAL WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO IT BY GROWING OUR UNIVERSITIES.

THE UNIVERSITIES WILL HAVE A NATURAL GROWTH PATTERN BUT WE NEED TO GET MORE STUDENTS THROUGH THE LOWER COST FORMS OF POST SECONDARY EDUCATION.

>> I THINK WE ALSO NEED TO LOOK AT THE COMMUNITY, TOO, THE NUMBER OF ADULTS WHO DON'T HAVE ANY TRAINING, COMMUNITY COLLEGES.

>> IT'S NOT JUST SOMETHING FOR HIGH SCHOOL GRADS.

>> IN THE STATE'S COUNTIES RUN FROM LIKE 10 TO 20 TO 30%, AND THAT'S IT, WITH THE COMMUNITY HAVING A POST-SECONDARY DEGREE.

WE ARE ALSO TALKING ABOUT A LARGE NUMBER OF ADULTS WHO HAVE FAMILIES, WORK, ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS AND TRYING TO GO TO SCHOOL.

>> LET ME GET TO ANOTHER CALLER.

TIRE REL IN LOUISTON.

>> HI.

>> WHAT IF YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY FOR COLLEGE?

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU REALLY NEED TO GO TO COLLEGE AND YOU REALLY BADLY WANT TO?

>> AND YOU REALLY WANT TO.

WELL, LET'S GO TO OUR CAREER COUNSELOR.

THANKS FOR YOUR CALL.

>> WELL, FIRST WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT A REASONABLE COST FOR A COLLEGE AND PART OF THAT I THINK WHEN I WORK WITH STUDENTS, WE TRY AND SAY, OK, THERE MAY BE A, WHAT I USE THE TERM, A FINANCIAL SAFETY SCHOOL.

AND WHAT'S THE SCHOOL THAT IF YOU GOT NO SCHOLARSHIPS COULD YOU AFFORD TO GO TO?

AND WORK FROM THAT POINT.

IS IT IN STATE?

MAYBE.

MAYBE NOT.

ARE YOU, IS YOUR FAMILY GOING TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR A PELL GRANT?

WE CAN PRETTY QUICKLY ASCERTAIN WHETHER THAT'S AN OPTION.

WE MIGHT HAVE TO TALK ABOUT STUDENT LOANS.

I AM NOT A FAN OF PUSHING STUDENT LOANS BUT FOR SOME STUDENTS, THAT MIGHT BE THE ONLY OPTION.

I THINK THE IDEA OF STARTING WITH A COMMUNITY COLLEGE IS A GREAT IDEA, A LOWER COST FOR TWO YEARS.

COMMUNITY COLLEGES HAVEN'T HAD THE HISTORY IN IDAHO SO THEY'RE A HARD SELL INITIALLY.

I THINK IN CALIFORNIA AND OTHER STATES THAT PEOPLE HAVE NO PROBLEM STARTING AT COMMUNITY COLLEGE.

BUT IF YOU CAN SAVE 50% ON THE TUITION COSTS, STLART FOR TWO YEARS, I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU WOULDN'T CONSIDER THAT AS AN OPTION.

>> TYRELL SOUND MAYBE A LITTLE YOUNGER.

OK.

SO HE CAN START PLANNING NOW AND START IDENTIFYING CLASSES HE CAN TAKE.

I MENTIONED DUAL CREDIT.

ANOTHER WAY IS DOING IT SO WE HAVE A LOT OF STUDENTS THAT LITERALLY ARE CLOSE TO FINISHING OR HAVE ACTUALLY EVEN FINISHED OCCUPY THEIR ASSOCIATE'S DEGREE OR FIRST TWO YEARS OF COLLEGE, BY THE TIME THEY FINISH HIGH SCHOOL.

WITH NO REAL ADDITIONAL COST.

THERE'S SOME COST BUT IT'S DO BELIEF.

>> YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE PROGRAMS OFFERED AND THE KIDS HAVE TO BE TOALGD ABOUT THEM.

WE'RE GETTING BETTER.

>> THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF IMPROVEMENT ON THAT IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

>> LET'S GO TO OUR NEXT CALLER, JANIE IN POCATELLO.

HI, JANIE.

GO AHEAD.

>> I AGREE WITH THE GUY IN THE GRAY SUIT.

I AM NOT SURE WHAT HIS NAME IS.

BUT I HAD JUST GOT GRADUATED WITH MY MASTER'S DEGREE AND THERE'S NO JOBS IN IDAHO.

>> THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

>> IT IS.

IT'S A BIG PROBLEM.

SO WHY SHOULD OUR KIDS STAY HERE?

THAT'S WHY A LOT OF THEM COME TO SCHOOL HERE AND GO BACK HOME TO OTHER STATES.

WE DON'T HAVE ANY QUALITY EDUCATED INDIVIDUALS HERE.

NOT ONLY THAT BUT BECAUSE THERE'S NO PROBLEMS THAT MAY, I HEARD YOUNG LADY SAY WE'RE 11%.

>> 11,000 UNDER AVERAGE, YEAH.

>> BEHIND THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

THAT NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT UP, TOO.

BUT MY SON GRADUATED TODAY FROM HIGH SCHOOL.

>> CONGRATULATIONS!

>> THANK YOU.

BUT HE LOOKS AT ME AND I AM WORKING PART TIME FOR ISU AND I MAKE $8 AN HOUR AND HE IS LOOKING AT ME AND SAYING, MOM, YOU HAVE YOUR MASTER'S DEGREE AND YOU ARE MAKING EIGHT BUCKS AN HOUR.

I HAVE APPLIED FOR 50 OR 60 JOBS WITH MY MASTER'S DEGREE AND THEY SAY I NEED THREE TO FIVE YEARS EXPERIENCE.

HOW DO YOU GET THAT?

I AM STUCK IN THIS $8 AN HOUR JOB AND TRYING TO CONVINCE HIM HE SHOULD GO TO SCHOOL.

>> LET ME THROW THAT OUT TO THE GROUP.

THANK YOU FOR CALLING.

>> I THINK WE NEED TO WORK WITH BUSINESS, TOO, TO HAVE BUSINESS START TO LOOK AT THE COMMUNITIES THAT THEY ARE IN, PROVIDE INCENTIVE TO BUSINESS, TO HELP EDUCATE THE WORK FORCE THEY HAVE FOR THEM AND POSSIBLY THAT WILL CREATE NEW JOBS.

>> IT'S A BIT OF A VICIOUS CIRCLE, THOUGH.

IF WE DON'T HAVE A HIGHLY EDUCATED WORK FORCE WE DON'T BE ABLE TO ATTRACT THE BUSINESSES THAT WANT THAT BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE JOBS COMING IN THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GO INTO THE FIELDS.

HOW DO YOU BREAK THAT CYCLE?

>> IT'S A CHALLENGE.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE FIND IS THAT PEOPLE CHOOSE THEIR EDUCATIONAL PATH.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF WHAT ARE MASTERS ARE IN OR WHAT BUT THEY CHOOSE AN EDUCATIONAL PATH THAT MAY NOT LEAD TO GOOD JOBS.

>> I DO -- >> WE WILL GO AHEAD AND THROW THIS UP.

THIS COMES FROM THE CENTER FOR EDUCATION IN THE WORK FORCE.

THE TOP 10 EARNINGS BY MAJOR BY EARNING, THESE ARE THE MAJORS YOU CAN GO INTO TO FIND THE, WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET, SEE IF WE CAN GET THAT TOP NUMBER ONE.

PETROLEUM ENGINEERING.

PHARMACY, PHARMACEUTICAL SCIENCES.

MATH MALT TICKS, COMPUTER SCIENCE, AERO SPACE ENGINEERING.

CHEMICAL ENGINEERING WOULD BE ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING.

NAVAL ARCHITECTURE, MECHANICAL ENGINEERING, METAL URGE CAL, MINING AND MINERAL ENGINEERING.

AND YOU CAN MAKE PRETTY GOOD MONEY.

LET ME SHOW THE BOTTOM 10.

NUMBER ONE ON THE BOTTOM OF THE MAJORS BY EARNINGS, WE CAN PULL THAT GRAPHIC UP.

DRAMA AND THEATER ARTS, STUDIO ARTS, COMMUNICATION, DISORDERS, SCIENCES, SERVICE, VISUAL AND PERFORMING ARTS, HEALTH AND MEDICAL PREPARATORY PROGRAM, SOCIAL WORK AND RELIGIOUS VOCATIONS, HELTS AND HUMAN SERVICES, EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION, COUNSELING PSYCHOLOGY.

SO DO YOU WARN KIDS AS THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT -- >> WE TALK ABOUT IT A LOT MORE.

AND I HAVE HAD INTERESTING IN THE PARENT CONFERENCE, I HAVE HAD MORE FAMILIES AND ESPECIALLY FATHERS COMING NOW AND ASKING, OK, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO GET OUT OF THIS?

WHAT MAJOR SHOULD WE CHOOSE?

AND VERY SERIOUS ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE END RESULT.

I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION MORE AND MORE.

NOT JUST GETTING INTO COLLEGE BUT WHERE ARE THE JOBS?

WE HAD THE BOISE FIRE DEPARTMENT CAME AND PUT ON A PRESENTATION THE OTHER DAY IN THE CAREER CENTER.

WE PACKED IT.

OVER 40 STUDENTS AND ONE OF THE STUDENTS SAYS, SO AM I GOING TO GET HIRED?

AND THE CONVERSATION -- WE'RE NOT HIRING MUCH RIGHT NOW.

BUT AS THINGS TURN AROUND WE WILL NEED MORE FIREFIGHTERS.

BUT IT WAS AN EXCITING PRESENTATION, A WONDERFUL CAREER TO GO INTO.

BUT I WORRY.

>> OUR ECONOMY RIGHT NOW DOES SKEW THE AVAILABILITY OF CERTAIN JOBS.

IT'S IRONIC.

A FEW YEARS AGO WE HAD SUCH A SHORTAGE OF NURSES AND RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A SURPLUS IN SOME AREAS OF NURSING.

YET IN THE LONG TERM WE KNOW NURSING IS GOING TO BE A GREAT CAREER.

I FEEL VERY SYMPATHETIC TOWARDS THE WOMAN WHO HAS A MASTER'S DEGREE EXPERNING $8 AN HOUR.

IS IT A QUESTION DID SHE RECEIVE THE RIGHT EDUCATION OR IS IT THE ECONOMY?

SOMETIMES THOSE ARE TOUGH QUESTIONS TO ANSWER.

BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU THE NUMBERS PROVE OUT.

THE MORE TRAINING, THE BETTER OFF YOU ARE GOING TO BE.

ONCE AGAIN I WOULD EMPHASIZE IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A STANDARD FOUR-YEAR DEGREE.

THERE'S A LOT OF GREAT JOBS, ONE OF THE -- WE HAD A REAL SHORTAGE OF WELDERS.

RIGHT NOW WE DON'T BUT WE WILL AGAIN.

AND THE MORE SPECIALIZED WELLING AREAS, PAY WELL, THEY ARE GOOD CAREERS.

YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO TALK ME OUT OF THE BENEFITS OF EDUCATION.

>> NO, AND WHAT ELSE, I THINK THERE'S NOT MUCH ELSE TO DO.

THERE AREN'T MANY GOOD JOBS TO FALL INTO WITH JUST A HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA.

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE THERE.

SO I THINK YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER GETTING TRAINED IN SOMETHING.

THAT'S WHAT I TELL OUR STUDENTS.

IT MAY NOT BE A FOUR-YEAR DEGREE BUT YOU NEED TRAINING BEYOND HIGH SCHOOL.

YOU NEED TO HAVE SOME SKILLS.

>> WE ARE ALMOST OUT OF TIME AND I KNOW WE HAVE GOT JACK WHO IS ON THE PHONE.

STAY WITH US, AND WE WILL CATCH YOU WHEN WE GO TO THE WEB PROGRAM.

I WANT TO END THE PROGRAM GIVING YOU ONE LAST CHANCE, IF YOU COULD CHANGE ONE THING ABOUT THE SYSTEM AS IT STANDS NOW, TO BE COURAGE KIDS TO GO ON TO SOME KIND OF POST SECONDARY EDUCATION, WHAT WOULD YOU CHANGE?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S ABOUT CHANGING HOW THE KIDS LOOK AT IT.

I WOULD LIKE TO CHANGE THE SYSTEM SO IT EMPHASIZES ACCESSIBILITY AND AFFORDABILITY.

COLLEGES, MORE OPPORTUNITIES THERKS DOESN'T HAVE TO GO TO A COLLEGE TOWN TO LOOK TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

ACTUALLY WE ARE AT THE POINT WRIT TAKES ON AVERAGE SIX YEARS TO FINISH A BACHELOR'S DEGREE AND THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF WORKING YOUR WAY THROUGH SCHOOL THAT'S STILL A GOOD THING.

>> AND I WOULD JUST LIKE THE COMMUNITIES AND THE POLICYMAKERS TO REALLY LOOK AT THE CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS IN IDAHO.

WE HAVE LARGE NUMBERS OF LATINO STUDENTS NOW WHO NEED EXTRA SUPPORT AND REFUGEE STUDENTS IN THE BOISE SCHOOL DISTRICT.

>> AND ACROSS THE STATE.

>> AND ACROSS THE STATE.

REALLY LOOKING TO PROVIDE OPPORTUNITIES AND HELPING THOSE FAMILIES ALSO UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF A PUBLIC EDUCATION OR TRAINING AFTER SCHOOL SO THAT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO BRING THEIR FAMILIES UP WITH THEM, TOO.

>> I THINK JUST ENCOURAGING THE CONVERSATION WITH ALL FAMILIES TO SAY, WHAT ARE WE, WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF GOING TO COLLEGE?

ARE THERE GOING TO BE JOBS THERE?

WHAT ARE THE JOBS?

I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A BETTER OPPORTUNITY TO TELL FAMILIES, HERE ARE SOME GREAT JOB OPPORTUNITIES.

HERE RIGHT TRAINING ROUTES TO GET THERE.

BUT THE NUMBERS ARE KIND OF NEBULOUS RIGHT NOW.

WHERE ARE THE JOBS?

>> DOES BOISE HIGH WHAT THE HAVE 80% OF THEIR KIDS GO ON.

WHAT IS THE SUCCESS?

>> NUMBER OF FACTORS.

WE HAVE A LOD OF GREAT STUDENTS.

THE CULTURE AND ATTITUDE IS, YOU COME WITH THE IDEA OF TO HAVE A GREAT ACADEMIC EXPERIENCE, TO GO ON TO COLLEGE.

EVEN OUR, WE HAVE A LARGE REFUGEE POPULATION NOW AND PROBABLY CLOSE TO 90% OF THOSE ARE ENROLLING IN COLLEGE IN THE FALL.

SO IT'S NOT JUST THE AFFLUENT FAMILIES BUT I THINK IT'S THE CULTURE THAT WE HAVE AND OTHER HIGH SCHOOLS CERTAINLY HAVE HAD AND BOISE AND OTHER PLACES.

BUT WE LIVE IT, WE BREATHE IT, OUR TEACHERS, EVERYBODY KIND OF HAS THAT EXPECTATION THAT YOU WILL GO ON, WE WILL GIVE YOU THE TOOLS, AND WE WILL HELP YOU GET THERE IF YOU WANT.

>> AND IF SOMEONE IS INTERESTING IN MORE INFORMATION ON YOUR PROGRAM?

>> THEY COULD CHECK OUT THE LOCAL HIGH SCHOOLS TO SEE IF THERE ARE TREE YEAR PROGRAMS THERE.

AND ALSO ON THE WEBSITE.

>> GREAT.

AND WE HAVE TIME.

IT LIKE TO THANK YOU, COURT, KEN, SUE, FOR BEING HERE.

I APPRECIATE YOU MAKING THE TIME AND DRIVING UP.

IF YOU ARE OR KNOW A 2011 HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE, IDAHO'S OFFICE OF PERFORMANCE EVALUATION WANTS TO HEAR FROM YOU.

IN THE PAST SESSION, LEGISLATORS ASKED THE STAFF THERE TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE BARRIERS TO GOING ON TO HIGHER EDUCATION.

SO RESEARCHERS ARE LOOKING FOR STUDENTS AND OTHERS TO GIVE THEM FEEDBACK.

ON THE "DIALOGUE" WEBSITE, YOU CAN FIND A LINK TO SURVEY REQUEST AND SET UP A PROFILE AND PROVIDE FEEDBACK THAT WILL EVENTUALLY BE PRESENTED TO THE LEGISLATURE.

GO TO IDAHOPTV.ORG.

GO TO IDAHOPTV.ORG.

YOU WILL FIND THE SURVEY LINK AND LOTS OF OTHER INFORMATION ON THIS TOPIC.

YOU CAN ALSO WATCH THE THANKS FOR JOINING US.

WE WILL SEE YOU NEXT TIME ON "DIALOGUE."

PRESENTATION OF "DIALOGUE" ON Captioning Performed By LNS Captioning www.LNScaptioning.com PRESENTATION OF "DIALOGUE" ON PRESENTATION OF "DIALOGUE" ON IDAHO PUBLIC TELEVISION IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF THE LAURA MOORE CUNNINGHAM FOUNDATION, COMMITTED TO FULFILLING THE MOORE FAMILY'S LEGACY OF BUILDING THE GREAT STATE OF IDAHO.

>> CHECK OUT OUR WEBSITE.

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