>> HI, I'M MICHAEL SMITH.

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[ MUSIC ] >> WELCOME TO "LIFE & LIVING."

I'M JOANNA GAGIS.

SHE TOOK UNIMAGINABLE GRIEF, AND TURNED IT INTO AN ARMY THAT'S FIGHTING TO STOP BULLYING.

SHE IS DIANNE GROSSMAN, CO-FOUNDER OF MALLORY'S ARMY.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, DIANNE.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> TELL US ABOUT MALLORY.

>> THAT QUESTION ALWAYS GETS ME.

I THINK SHE IS YOUR ALL-AMERICAN LITTLE GIRL.

WHEN I THINK OF THE AMERICAN GIRL DOLL, I THINK THAT MALLORY IS ONE OF THOSE CHILDREN.

SHE WAS AN ATHLETE.

SHE WAS A GOOD STUDENT.

SHE WAS A GOOD CHILD.

SHE WAS THE BABY.

UM, SHE'S JUST AN ALL-AROUND AMERICAN LITTLE GIRL.

>> AND WHAT HAPPENED?

>> GOSH, I THINK IT WAS A SERIES OF, UH, MISTAKES THAT HAPPENED.

THERE WERE FOUR GIRLS AT SCHOOL THAT DECIDED TO PUT A TARGET ON HER BACK.

THEY JUST DECIDED TO KIND OF GANG UP ON HER.

AND, UNFORTUNATELY, SHE JUST COULDN'T HANDLE THE PRESSURE OF SATISFYING THEM OR MAKING IT GO AWAY.

>> MALLORY TOOK HER OWN LIFE IN JUNE OF 2017.

>> YEAH.

>> I CAN'T IMAGINE, AS A PARENT, THE PAIN THAT YOU AND YOUR FAMILY HAVE GONE THROUGH.

HOW HAVE YOU DECIDED TO TAKE THAT GRIEF, AND TURN IT INTO SOMETHING WHERE YOU CAN NOW EDUCATE AND MAKE AN IMPACT ON OTHER STUDENTS, AND POSSIBLY EVEN SAVE SOME LIVES IN THE PROCESS?

>> WELL, I THINK IT WAS DAYS AFTER THAT MALLORY PASSED AWAY, WHEN WE STARTED TO REALIZE THAT THIS WAS AN EPIDEMIC.

YOU KNOW, IT WASN'T JUST ONE ISOLATED INCIDENT.

WE STARTED LEARNING THAT MORE AND MORE CHILDREN, PARTICULARLY IN HER AGE BRACKET, THIS HAS BECOME A SOLUTION FOR THEM.

AND SO, ONCE I LEARNED THAT, I DECIDED THAT I DIDN'T WANT OTHER PARENTS TO HURT THE WAY THAT WE DO.

AND SO WE STARTED MALLORY'S ARMY.

>> WHAT IS THE MISSION OF MALLORY'S ARMY?

>> SO WE SERVICE THREE PEOPLE, MEANING THAT WE EMPOWER CHILDREN, WE EDUCATE PARENTS, AND WE ENRICH SCHOOL PROGRAMS.

AND WE DO THIS, OUR PHILOSOPHY OF THE FOUNDATION IS BEHAVIOR MANAGEMENT.

>> SO EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS, AND HOW YOU ARE MANAGING THAT BEHAVIOR, HOW YOU'RE CHANGING THAT BEHAVIOR.

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S THE ONE THING THAT WE CAN ALL CHOOSE TODAY THAT DOESN'T COST ANYTHING, HAS NO RACE, HAS NO-- HAS NO OWNERSHIP.

SO WE COULD MAKE THE DECISION TODAY TO JUST BE NICER.

SO IT'S A REALLY SIMPLE SOLUTION, UM, THAT ANYBODY CAN MAKE THE DECISION TO DO SO.

SO THE WAY THAT WE FEEL THAT WE DO THAT IS, WE EMPOWER THE CHILDREN THROUGH OUR BLUE BAND AND OUR MANTRA, "IT'S A BRACELET KIND OF LIFE."

>> AND WHAT ARE THE TECHNIQUES?

AND YOU SAY IT'S EASY, BUT KIDS ARE, IN SOME WAYS, AWFUL, RIGHT?

WE ALL WENT THROUGH CHILDHOOD AND THERE IS A SIDE OF THE HUMAN SPIRIT THAT COMES OUT IN KIDS THAT CAN SOMETIMES BE REALLY UGLY.

SO HOW DO WE EMPOWER KIDS TO... WHAT ARE THE TECHNIQUES WE GIVE THEM TO CHOOSE TO BE NICER?

AND-AND WHAT ARE THOSE METHODS?

>> SO IT KIND OF FOUND US, WHEN WE STARTED DOING RESEARCH.

SO MALLORY'S LITTLE-- MALLORY'S BEST FRIEND, UM, BOUGHT THESE LITTLE BLUE BANDS.

AND WE THOUGHT, OH, GREAT, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE 600 OF THESE LITTLE BLUE BANDS.

AND WE THOUGHT THAT WE'LL SELL 200 OR 300 OF THEM.

WELL, WITHIN A MATTER OF HOURS, WE SOLD 600.

THEN WE SOLD 2,000.

AND AS WE WERE DOING THE RESEARCH, WHY THESE LITTLE BLUE BANDS WERE SO IMPORTANT IS THAT THERE WAS A CASE STUDY THAT SHOWS THAT A COLORFUL BAND ON THE ARMS OF INFLUENTIAL CHILDREN ACTUALLY IS BEHAVIOR MANAGEMENT.

THIS CASE STUDY WAS DONE IN NEW JERSEY, 56 MIDDLES SCHOOLS.

UH, THE CASE STUDY WAS DONE THROUGH YALE, PRINCETON, AND RUTGERS ALL PARTICIPATED IN IT.

AND WHAT THEY FOUND IS, THIS WORKED JUST LIKE A STRING AROUND YOUR FINGER NOT TO FORGET MILK AND BREAD.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS BLUE BAND IS A REMINDER TO BEHAVE AT SCHOOL.

>> WHO'S REINFORCING THAT?

IS IT THE TEACHERS?

>> IT HAS TO BE A COLLECTIVE GROUP.

SO I CALL IT A RECIPE FOR SUCCESS.

YOU CANNOT SOLVE A PROBLEM WITH ONE INDIVIDUAL.

TEACHERS HAVE TO BE ON BOARD, ADMINISTRATIONS HAVE TO BE ON BOARD, AND PARENTS HAVE TO BE ON BOARD.

BUT YOU CAN'T JUST TELL THE KIDS WHAT TO DO.

YOU HAVE TO EMPOWER THEM, TO LET THEM BE IN CHARGE OVER THEIR OWN LIFE.

>> AND HOW IS THIS ACTUALLY INTEGRATED INTO THE CURRICULUM?

WHAT ARE THEY DOING IN THE CLASSROOM THAT'S SUPPORTING THE MESSAGE, THE ANTI-BULLYING MESSAGE?

>> SO THEY ALREADY HAVE REALLY GREAT CURRICULUMS.

WHAT WE ASKED THEM TO DO IS ADOPT MALLORY'S ARMY AS THEIR FOUNDATION.

WE DON'T WANT TO BE JUST AN ASSEMBLY WHERE WE TELL THEM MALLORY'S SAD STORY.

WE WANT TO TELL THEM ABOUT MALLORY'S LIFE, AND HOW THEY COULD ACTUALLY BE IN CONTROL OF THE HALLS THAT THEY WALK.

SO WE FEEL THAT THERE'S ALREADY AN EXISTING CURRICULUM THEY CAN JUST INFUSE IT INTO.

SO, AN EXAMPLE, SOCIAL STUDIES.

WRITE A LETTER TO YOUR MAYOR AND SAY, WE WANT TO WRITE A PROCLAMATION FOR MALLORY'S ARMY, AND WE WANT TO HAVE EVERY WEDNESDAY BE A BLUE-OUT BULLYING DAY.

EMPOWER THE CHILDREN.

RAISE MONEY FOR IT.

INFUSE THAT INTO YOUR MATH CURRICULUM.

>> WHAT WERE THE SIGNS THAT MALLORY WAS BEING BULLIED?

AND HOW DID YOU APPROACH IT?

HOW DID YOU HANDLE IT, INITIALLY?

>> WELL, LIKE EVERY PARENT, I THINK WE PITCHFORK IT, RIGHT?

WE GO INTO THE SCHOOL, REALLY MAD AND ANGRY.

AND WE SEND EMAILS AND WE DEMAND RESPONSIBILITY.

WE DEMAND DISCIPLINE.

>> OF WHO?

THE PRINCIPAL, THE TEACHERS?

>> YEAH, WE DEMAND THEY, AS THE ADMINISTRATORS AND AS THE PROFESSIONALS WITH THE EDUCATION, WE, UM, WANT THEM TO ENFORCE THE EXISTING NEW JERSEY LAW.

SIGNS... I THINK THAT THEY'RE SO SUBTLE, THAT THEY'RE RALLY-- AND THEY'RE SO DIFFERENT FOR EVERY CHILD.

FOR MALLORY, HER GRADES STARTED TO DIP.

SHE CAME HOME WITH A FULL LUNCHBOX.

SHE WASN'T EATING AS MUCH.

SHE WANTED TO QUIT GYMNASTICS.

THERE WAS A LOT OF LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT.

WHICH, OF COURSE, I DIAGNOSED AS NORMAL TWEEN BEHAVIOR.

AND WHEN IT TURNS OUT-- BY THE TIME I REALLY FOUND OUT THE GRAND SCOPE OF EVERYTHING THAT WAS GOING ON, UNFORTUNATELY, IT WAS TOO LATE.

>> DID YOU TALK TO THE OTHER PARENTS WHO WERE INVOLVED?

>> I TRIED.

I CALLED THE NIGHT BEFORE.

UM, BUT THERE'S THIS SYNDROME THAT'S OUT THERE CALLED "NOT MY CHILD."

AND NOBODY WANTS TO BELIEVE THAT THEIR CHILD IS PARTICIPATING.

IN THAT WE ALSO HAVE THIS ATTITUDE OF, LET IT ROLL OFF YOUR SHOULDERS.

IT'S NO BIG DEAL.

UM, SO-- >> KIDS WILL DO THAT, KIDS WILL BE KIDS?

>> YEAH, KIDS'LL BE KIDS.

YEAH.

>> WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE TO OTHER PARENTS WHO MAYBE SEE SIGNS LIKE MALLORY'S, BUT DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT?

>> I THINK THAT YOU HAVE TO ASK QUESTIONS.

NOT HOW DO YOU-- HOW WAS YOUR DAY TODAY, BUT HOW DO YOU FEEL?

I THINK THAT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE NUMBER ONE CHARACTERISTIC WITH CHILDREN IN THIS CATEGORY, THEY'RE VERY SENSITIVE.

WHEN YOU START SEEING LITTLE SIGNS, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT CHILDREN HAVE AN ADULT TO TALK TO.

UM, AND IT'S NOT GOING TO BE YOU.

WE DON'T TELL OUR PARENTS-- THINK BACK TO WHEN YOU WERE A KID.

DID YOU TELL YOUR PARENTS EVERYTHING?

NO.

SO IT'S THE SAME THING HERE.

I THINK CHILDREN REALLY DO NEED AN OUTSIDE INDIVIDUAL.

IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE A SCHOOL GUIDANCE COUNSELOR.

IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A PARENT.

BUT IT DEFINITELY SHOULD BE SOMEBODY THAT CAN, UH, GIVE THEM SOME HEALTHY ADVICE.

>> HAVE SCHOOLS BEEN RECEPTIVE TO THIS CONCEPT?

AND IF NOT, WHAT'S BEEN THE PUSHBACK?

>> UH, THE PUSHBACK IS THAT WE'RE SUING OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM.

SO THEY DON'T WANT TO PARTNER WITH THE ADULTS THAT ARE TAKING, UH, A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE SCHOOL.

SO THAT HAS BEEN ONE PUSHBACK.

BUT, YEAH, WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD REALLY GREAT SUCCESS IN, UM, SUBURBAN SCHOOL SYSTEMS, AS WELL AS URBAN DISTRICTS.

WE'VE HAD GREAT SUCCESS WITH MALLORY'S ARMY.

>> WHAT DO YOU HOPE IS THE FUTURE FOR MALLORY'S ARMY?

>> I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF DREAMS.

I WOULD LOVE FOR IT TO BE A CHAPTER-BASED TYPE FOUNDATION, WHERE THERE IS A CHAPTER IN EVERY SINGLE STATE, ROLLING OUT WORKSHOPS.

PARENTS HAVE TO BE IN A CONTINUING EDUCATION MINDSET.

THEY ALWAYS HAVE TO.

AS LAWS AND TECHNOLOGY AND APPS CONTINUE TO EVOLVE, WE, AS PARENTS, HAVE TO CONSTANTLY BE EDUCATING OURSELVES.

THAT'S THE BIG GOAL.

AS OF RIGHT NOW, WE JUST WANT TO, UM, HOPEFULLY IMPROVE THE LAWS THAT ARE ALREADY EXISTING IN NEW JERSEY.

>> AND DIANNE, HOW HAS THIS WHOLE EXPERIENCE CHANGED YOUR LIFE, AND YOUR FAMILY'S LIFE?

>> PERSPECTIVE.

WE HAVE-- WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE TRUE MEANING OF LIFE REALLY IS.

UM, IT'S CHANGED OUR FAMILY.

WE NO LONGER CHASE BIG, FANCY VACATIONS.

WE JUST-- WE KNOW WHAT THE TRUE MEANING OF LIFE IS ALL ABOUT.

AND IT'S A BEAUTIFUL TRAGEDY.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING IT WITH US, DIANNE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> DON'T GO ANYWHERE.

WE'RE COMING BACK WITH MORE "LIFE & LIVING," RIGHT AFTER THIS.

THANK YOU.

TO CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION, FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @JOANNAGAGIS, ON FACEBOOK AT /JOANNAGAGIS.LIFEANDLIVING, AND ON INSTAGRAM AT LIFEANDLIVING_JOANNAGAGIS.

TO SEE MORE "LIFE & LIVING PROGRAMS," VISIT US ONLINE, AT LIFEANDLIVING.ORG.

WE'LL SEE YOU THERE.

>> WELCOME BACK TO "LIFE & LIVING."

THE #METOO MOVEMENT HAS SPARKED A NATIONAL DIALOGUE ABOUT SEXUAL VIOLENCE.

AND REALLY, IT'S EMPOWERED MANY WOMEN TO COME FORWARD AND SHARE THEIR STORIES.

THE SAD REALIZATION IS JUST HOW MANY THERE ARE.

WELL, PATRICIA HART IS HERE WITH ME NOW.

SHE'S A LICENSED CLINICAL SOCIAL WORKER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF WOMANSPACE IN MERCER COUNTY, NEW JERSEY.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

THANK YOU.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BEFORE WE GET INTO THE #METOO MOVEMENT, JUST TELL US, WHAT IS WOMANSPACE?

>> WOMANSPACE IS AN AGENCY THAT PROVIDES SUPPORT FOR BOTH DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND SEXUAL-- SEXUAL ASSAULT SURVIVORS.

UM, WE DO THAT IN A MYRIAD OF WAYS.

SHELTER, COUNSELING.

WE WORK WITH HUMAN TRAFFICKING VICTIMS.

SO, ANY KIND OF ABUSE, ANY KIND OF INTERPERSONAL ABUSE, WE'RE THERE TO PROVIDE THAT KIND OF SUPPORT FOR THE VICTIMS.

>> THE #METOO MOVEMENT REALLY HAS CREATED AN ENERGY, AND I THINK A FEELING IN OUR COUNTRY WHERE WOMEN FEEL LIKE THEY CAN SHARE THEIR STORIES.

UM, BUT THIS IS NOTHING NEW TO YOU, IS IT?

I THINK, TO SOME PEOPLE, IT'S SURPRISING TO HEAR HOW PREVALENT THIS ISSUE IS.

YOU'RE NOT SURPRISED?

>> NO.

NO, WE'RE NOT SURPRISED.

I THINK THE PIECE OF THE #METOO MOVEMENT-- AND THE WOMAN WHO STARTED THE #METOO MOVEMENT, WHICH IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S RECENT, BUT SHE STARTED IT ABOUT, I THINK, ABOUT 12 YEARS AGO, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> AND, UM, SHE STARTED IT FOR WOMEN OF COLOR, WHO WERE MARGINALIZED, WHO DIDN'T REALLY HAVE A VOICE.

FEELING THAT ALTHOUGH SEXUAL VIOLENCE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE TOO, IT-IT DOESN'T REALLY DISCRIMINATE.

BUT THE RESPONSE TO IT SEEMED TO.

SO SHE CREATED #METOO AS A WAY TO-- FOR WOMEN OF COLOR, ANY MARGINALIZED WOMEN, REALLY, TO HAVE A FORUM TO SPEAK UP.

HOWEVER, IT BECAME SUCH-- KIND OF A GENERAL MOVEMENT.

AND THERE WERE SO MANY WOMEN, WOMEN OF COLOR, WHITE WOMEN, MIDDLE-CLASS WOMEN, ALL WOMEN, WHO REALLY FELT THE NEED TO NOT BE ALONE IN THEIR, UM, ABUSE ANYMORE.

>> WHY HAVE WOMEN, PREVIOUS TO THIS, REALLY NOT COME FORWARD?

WHAT HAVE BEEN SOME OF THE-THE RISKS, I GUESS, OF COMING FORWARD?

>> THE REPORTING OF SEXUAL ASSAULT, SPECIFIC, UM, IS SO LOW, COMPARED TO THE INCIDENT ITSELF.

AND THERE ARE MANY, MANY REASONS.

AND, HISTORICALLY, ONCE YOU REPORT SEXUAL ABUSE, YOU REPORT A RAPE, YOU REPORT ANY SEXUAL ASSAULT, OFTEN TIMES THE FOCUS BECOMES THE VICTIM.

WHAT WERE YOU WEARING?

WHERE WERE YOU?

WERE YOU DRINKING?

WHY WERE YOU IN THAT PLACE?

WHY WEREN'T YOU TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF?

>> WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?

>> WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?

IT'S BACKWARDS, RIGHT?

SO, NO ONE'S SAYING, HOW DARE HE.

HOW-HOW DARE.

HOW DARE HE THINK THAT HE CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS.

THEY WERE SAYING, WELL, MAYBE IF YOU WERE JUST WANTING-- IF YOU'RE JUST TAKING BETTER CARE, BEING MORE CAREFUL, IT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.

BUT THE REALITY IS, THAT'S UNTRUE.

AND SO, TO BE REVICTIMIZED BY A SYSTEM THAT THEN BLAMES THE VICTIM, IT'S A REALLY GOOD REASON WHY WOMEN DON'T COME FORWARD.

UM, IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC, ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES, IT'S-IT'S VERY PREVALENT.

AND-AND IT IS PRETTY FRIGHTENING TO COME FORWARD.

SO WE MIGHT MEET WITH WOMEN WHO MIGHT NEVER SAY A WORD.

UM, WHETHER THAT'S DURING A FORENSIC EXAM AT THE HOSPITAL OR IN OUR OFFICES.

AND WE SUPPORT THEM, WHATEVER THEY WANNA DO, 'CAUSE IT IS FRIGHTENING TO BE-- TO HAVE KIND OF THE FOCUS BE ON YOU, AND WHAT YOU DID WRONG.

>> AND ALSO, WE KNOW, IN LEGAL CASES, IF A WOMAN WANTS TO PURSUE ANY KIND OF CHARGES, AGAIN, IT'S THE VICTIM BLAMING, VICTIM SHAMING THERE, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

AND WITH THE ME-- THE #METOO MOVEMENT IS WONDERFUL, IN THAT I THINK IT GIVES A VOICE.

AND FOR WOMEN, IT FEELS LIKE, OKAY, I'M NOT ALONE HERE.

THIS IS HAPPENING EVERYWHERE.

BUT WE TEND TO BLAME OURSELVES.

WE TEND TO SAY, WHEN PEOPLE BLAME US, OH, MAYBE I SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT.

MAYBE I SHOULD-- THIS-THIS IS A HUGE MOVEMENT THAT'S SAYING, NO, NO, NO, NO.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU WERE DOING OR WHERE YOU WERE, OR IF YOU WERE DRINKING.

NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOU IN THAT WAY, TO ABUSE YOU IN THAT WAY.

UM, SO IT'S VERY POWERFUL FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN VICTIMIZED.

>> THIS FEELS, TO ME PERSONALLY, LIKE A START.

WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE, IN TERMS OF THE NEED TO ADDRESS ABUSE, NOT JUST SEXUAL ABUSE, BUT DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, AND ALL OF THE AREAS WHERE ABUSE IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW?

>> IT SHINES A HUGE LIGHT ON, UH, THE-THE ISSUE, RIGHT?

NOBODY-- AND THE PROBLEM, OR THE FEAR IS THAT A BACKLASH WILL HAPPEN.

AND YOU SEE A LITTLE BIT OF THAT KIND OF BLAME.

OH, THEY JUST WANT THE PUBLICITY.

THEY'RE SAYING THAT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT GIVES THEM THE SPOTLIGHT.

OR, YOU KNOW-- >> HOW ABOUT THOSE WHO SAY THEY-- YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO TAKE DOWN A MAN FOR WHATEVER REASON, AND WANT TO USE THE MEDIA, RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE CERTAINLY THERE'S DIFFERENCE IN COURT OF LAW AND COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE CRITICAL OF THE #METOO MOVEMENT.

SAYING, ONCE A MAN IS OUTED, THAT'S IT.

EVEN IF HE WAS INNOCENT, HE HAS NO VOICE.

>> RIGHT.

I THINK PEOPLE D-- I-I KNOW THAT THAT'S AN ARGUMENT, AND I THINK THE REALITY IS, THERE'S NO FUN IN REPORTING SEXUAL ASSAULT.

THERE'S NOTHING TO GAIN.

IT'S DIFFICULT.

YOU'RE EXPOSING THE MOST INTIMATE PERSONAL PART OF YOURSELF.

AND YOU'RE OPENING YOURSELF UP FOR THAT EXACT KIND OF CRITICISM.

SO WHEN YOU DO IT, IT'S PRETTY FRIGHTENING.

UM, ARE THERE INSTANCES WHERE IT MIGHT NOT BE TRUE?

I-I WOULD NEVER SAY NO.

OF COURSE THAT MIGHT BE TRUE.

BUT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF WOMEN WHO COME FORWARD AND REPORT, TAKES A LOT OF COURAGE.

AND IT'S NOT A WIN-WIN FOR THEM.

IT'S POTENTIALLY A LOSE-LOSE.

SO, IT'S HARD.

>> ARE YOU CRITICAL OF OUR LEGAL SYSTEM, IN TERMS OF HOLDING THE ABUSERS ACCOUNTABLE?

>> WELL, SO OUR LEGAL SYSTEM IS COMPRISED OF A LOT OF DIFFERENT COMPONENTS, RIGHT?

LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE COURTS, ET CETERA.

UM, I THINK THEY HAVE A WAYS TO GO, TO HOLD PERPETRATORS ACCOUNTABLE, I DO.

>> WHERE DO YOU THINK WE NEED TO IMPROVE?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THERE HAS BEEN A HUGE-- SO I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONG TIME.

AND I SEE A HUGE CHANGE AND SHIFT IN THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN VICTIM ADVOCATES AND, SAY, LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WE HAVE WONDERFUL PARTNERSHIPS WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT.

AND THE LAWS REALLY REFLECT THE NEED TO BE VICTIM-CENTERED.

AND THAT'S HAPPENING ALL THE TIME.

SO THAT'S GREAT.

>> SO YOU SEE IMPROVEMENTS IN THOSE AREAS?

>> I DO.

I DO.

I THINK ONE OF THE HARDEST PLACES IS THE COURTS.

IT'S VERY HARD.

EVEN ONCE SOMEONE IS FOUND GUILTY OF-- WHETHER IT'S SEXUAL ASSAULT OR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, THE CONSEQUENCES ARE MINOR.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SEE A CASE WHERE A JUDGE SAYS, OH, THE POOR GUY.

THIS IS GONNA RUIN HIS FUTURE IF I PUT HIM IN JAIL.

SO-SO I THINK THE SYMPATHY IS KIND OF IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, BECAUSE SOMEONE'S LIFE HAS ALREADY BEEN RUINED.

>> ARE THERE CERTAIN TYPES OF ABUSE THAT ARE MORE HIGH-RISK THAN OTHERS?

OF COURSE, ALL ABUSE IS DEVASTATING TO-TO THE ABUSED PERSON.

BUT ARE THERE CERTAIN TYPES THAT ARE WORSE THAN OTHERS?

>> THERE-THERE ARE INDICATORS.

SO THERE ARE LETHALITY INDICATORS, THINGS THAT-- AND LAW ENFORCEMENT IS TRAINED ON THESE ALL THE TIME, AS, OF COURSE, WE ARE.

UM, STALKING IS VERY DANGEROUS.

I KNOW PEOPLE SAY, OH, IF HE STALKS HER, HE'S PROBABLY NOT GONNA GO ANYWHERE NEAR HER.

BUT, IN TRUTH, A TRUE STALKER IS VERY DANGEROUS AND-AND REALLY PRESENTS A RISK.

>> WHAT ABOUT CHOKING?

>> STRANGULATION IS-- SO PEOPLE CALL IT CHOKING.

UM, AND, A LOT OF TIMES, IT GETS KIND OF SET ASIDE.

BUT STRANGULATION IS A HUGE INDICATOR OF LETHALITY, AND SO-- >> MEANING DEATH TO THE PERSON WHO'S BEING ABUSED?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

THAT'S CORRECT.

SO, IF SOMEONE'S BEEN STRANGLED OR BEING STRANGLED, THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THAT WILL ESCALATE IS-IS HIGHER.

AND THE CONSEQUENCES ARE HUGE FOR STRANGULATION, BY THE WAY, THINGS YOU MIGHT NOT SEE.

>> AND IS THIS, VERY OFTEN, DOMESTIC CASES?

>> IT IS.

YEAH.

WE DO SEE THAT.

WE'VE SEEN, UM, WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN STRANGLED OVER A PERIOD OF TIME WHO, VERY PREMATURELY, VERY YOUNG, ARE HAVING STROKES, AND SEEING THE CONSEQUENCE PHYSICALLY OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU-- WHEN THAT KIND OF THING IS HAPPENING TO YOU.

>> PATRICIA HART, WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

I WISH WE COULD CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION MORE BECAUSE, CLEARLY, WE'VE JUST SCRATCHED THE SERVICE.

UM, BUT LICENSED CLINICAL SOCIAL WORKER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF WOMANSPACE.

I WANNA THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> OH, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> PLEASURE.

DON'T GO ANYWHERE.

WE'RE COMING BACK WITH MORE "LIFE & LIVING," RIGHT AFTER THIS.

TO CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION, FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @JOANNAGAGIS, ON FACEBOOK AT /JOANNAGAGIS.LIFEANDLIVING, AND ON INSTAGRAM AT LIFEANDLIVING_JOANNAGAGIS.

TO SEE MORE "LIFE & LIVING PROGRAMS," VISIT US ONLINE AT LIFEANDLIVING.ORG.

WE'LL SEE YOU THERE.

>> WELCOME BACK.

WHAT DO YOU GET WHEN YOU CROSS A VETERAN WITH A BARBECUE JOINT?

RED WHITE & QUE SMOKEHOUSE.

THAT, ACCORDING TO ITS CO-OWNERS, DAN AND KATIE MISURACA.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, BOTH OF YOU.

>> THANKS.

>> THANK YOU.

THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> SO, YOU'RE A VETERAN?

>> YES.

>> AND YOU BOTH RUN A BARBECUE JOINT?

>> YES.

>> RED WHITE & QUE.

KATIE, TELL US HOW IT STARTED.

>> SO, YEARS AGO, WHEN WE BOUGHT OUR HOUSE, WE HAD A BEAUTIFUL BACKYARD THAT WAS IN OUR HOUSE.

AND I BOUGHT DAN A SMOKER AS A HOUSEWARMING PRESENT.

AND, UH, IT KIND OF STARTED FROM THERE AND ESCALATED INTO A CRAZY HOBBY.

AND DAN IS A OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE HOBBYIST.

SO THE SMOKE WAS-- >> I'VE NEVER HEARD THAT BEFORE.

>> YEAH, IT'S THE TRUTH.

SO HE WOULD REALLY GET INTO IT.

AND THE SMOKERS JUST GOT BIGGER AND BIGGER AND BIGGER, AND, UH, AT SOME POINT, WE KIND OF JUST SAID TO OURSELVES, AFTER WORKING RETAIL FOR 10 YEARS, UH, WORKING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE, I SAID, YOU KNOW, WHY DON'T WE DO THIS FOR OURSELVES?

LIKE, WE KNOW HOW TO RUN A BUSINESS.

AND, LIKE, OUR FRIENDS TELL US WE MAKE GOOD FOOD.

SO MAYBE IF PEOPLE-- YEAH, MAYBE IF PEOPLE WILL BUY IT.

AND THEN IT KIND OF WENT FROM THERE.

WE-WE FOUND A TINY, LITTLE SPOT.

WE FOUND IT ON CRAIGSLIST.

AND THIS WAS OUR-OUR DREAM, TO-TO START OUR OWN BUSINESS AND WORK TOGETHER.

>> THAT IS DEFINITELY THE SHORT VERSION.

REALLY QUICKLY, HOW DID YOU MEET KATIE?

AND HOW DID YOU KNOW YOU WERE NEVER GOING TO LET HER GO?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> WELL, WE MET OVER A GLASS OF BOURBON, IN NEW YORK CITY.

WE BOTH WORKED FOR JOURNEYS SHOES.

AND WE MET AT A MANAGER MEETING.

AND THEN WE WENT AND, UH, HAD A DRINK AFTER, AND I KNEW, UH, WE WOULD BE TOGETHER FOREVER.

>> YOU HAD RECENTLY LEFT THE MARINE CORPS.

YOU SERVED FOUR YEARS IN THE UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS.

UM, YOU GOT INTO THIS HOBBY.

I LOVE "OCD HOBBYIST."

LOVE THAT TERM.

UM, AT WHAT POINT DID YOU KNOW, LIKE, THIS IS SOMETHING-- YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF DIFFERENT THAN-THAN WHAT YOU'D BEEN DOING, GO FROM MARINE CORPS TO SHOES.

NOW THINKING ABOUT RUNNING A RESTAURANT.

WHAT SKILLS TRANSLATED FOR YOU, INTO BEING ABLE TO RUN THAT RESTAURANT?

>> WELL, WE KNEW GOING INTO IT, WE REALLY GAVE GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE.

WE LOVE DEALING WITH PEOPLE.

SO, UH, THAT'S GOING INTO-- OUR GAME PLAN WAS, LET'S JUST BE SUPER FRIENDLY.

BE OURSELVES.

YOU KNOW, BE ACCOMMODATING, AND JUST PRETEND LIKE IT'S OUR BACKYARD AND WE'RE HAVING A PARTY, AND JUST HAVE-- MAKE SURE EVERYONE HAS A GREAT TIME.

>> SO, WHY BARBECUE?

I KNOW YOU'RE-I KNOW-- YOU KNOW, YOU LOVE YOUR SMOKER.

UM, BUT IN TERMS OF RUNNING A BUSINESS AND-AND WHAT THE NEED IS, AND WHAT THE DESIRE IS IN THE COMMUNITY, AND WHAT SKILL SET YOU THOUGHT YOU HAD?

>> YEAH.

THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS.

SO, BARBECUE IS UNIQUE, IN THE SENSE THAT IT'S NOT OVERLY COMPLICATED.

IT'S SIMPLE FOOD.

AND IT'S-IT'S COMFORT FOOD, AND IT'S FOOD THAT'S FUN TO MAKE AND IT'S CONSISTENT.

AND, ACTUALLY, SOMETHING THAT DAN IS REALLY GOOD AT, LIKE, HE IS SUPER DISCIPLINED.

AND ANYBODY IN THE MILITARY HAS TO BE REALLY DISCIPLINED.

BUT I THINK THAT KIND OF BECAME A PART OF YOUR NATURE, PROBABLY THROUGH THE MILITARY.

AND BARBECUE TAKES A SPECIFIC DISCIPLINE.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO DO THE SAME THING EVERY DAY.

IT'S ABOUT TIME.

IT'S ABOUT TEMPERATURE.

IT'S ABOUT PATIENCE.

AND, UM, YOU KNOW, EXECUTION, AND-AND KEEPING IT REALLY SIMPLE.

BARBECUE JUST SEEMED TO BE THE RIGHT SPOT FOR US.

AND THEN, ON TOP OF THAT, JUST LIKE DAN WAS SAYING, LIKE, A PARTY IN YOUR BACKYARD IS BARBECUE FOOD.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ABOUT.

>> AND THAT'S WHAT YOU GUYS WERE DOING, RIGHT?

YOU WERE HOSTING A LOT OF PEOPLE.

AT ONE POINT, YOU HOSTED A REUNION OF EIGHT MARINE CORPS GUYS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> UH, WAS THAT THE IMPETUS FOR YOU?

>> THAT WAS IT.

THAT'S WHAT PUT US OVER THE TOP.

WE, UH, WE LOVED HAVING PARTIES IN OUR BACKYARD, AND 2015, WE-- I INVITED EIGHT OF MY BEST BUDDIES FROM THE MARINE CORPS.

I HAVEN'T SEEN THEM IN 25 YEARS.

WE JUST PARTIED FOR A WEEK STRAIGHT IN MY YARD.

COOKED PIGS, COOKED BRISKET.

AND AFTER THEY LEFT, I WAS JUST LIKE, WE REALLY NEED TO DO THIS.

WE CAN DO THIS.

WE CAN COOK FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

WE-WE'RE-- YOU KNOW, WE KNOW WHAT WE WANT TO DO.

SO I TALKED HER INTO QUITTING OUR CAREERS.

>> YEAH.

>> THAT IS A BIG LEAP.

>> HUGE.

>> BUT IT'S WORKING OUT.

AND SOMETHING THAT WAS SOMEWHAT UNEXPECTED FOR YOU, IS YOU'VE NOW ENDED UP REALLY HELPING THE COMMUNITY.

YOU'RE HIRING VETERANS.

EVEN COM-- YOU KNOW, COMBAT TOUR VETERANS.

EXPLAIN THAT A BIT.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, UM, VETERANS ARE THE BEST EMPLOYEES.

THEY'RE HARD-WORKING, THEY'RE LOYAL.

THEY'LL DO ANYTHING FOR YOU.

AND THEY WANT TO BE PART OF A TEAM.

YOU KNOW, IN THE-THE MILITARY, IN THE MARINE CORPS ESPECIALLY, YOU'RE A PART OF A TEAM EVERY SINGLE DAY.

YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING BY YOURSELF.

AND WHEN YOU GET OUT, YOU'RE BY YOURSELF.

AND YOU WANT TO LATCH ON TO SOMETHING.

SO, WE-WE CREATE THAT TEAM.

AND WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, EVER TURN BACK ON EACH OTHER.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S PART OF WHAT-WHAT BARBECUE NEEDS TOO.

AND-AND, AGAIN, WHAT MAKES IT A UNIQUELY AMERICAN FOOD.

IT'S A CULTURE.

AND IT'S ABOUT COMING TOGETHER.

AND IT'S ABOUT SUPPORTING EACH OTHER.

AND, LIKE, YOU CAN'T JUST MAKE BARBECUE BY YOURSELF.

LIKE, WE KNOW.

WE HAVE A TINY LITTLE RESTAURANT.

IT'S 500 SQUARE FEET.

BUT WE NEED EVERYBODY.

AND WE NEED EVERYONE TO WORK TOGETHER.

AND, LIKE, THAT'S WHY WE'RE SUCCESSFUL.

AND EVEN JUST MORE THAN THE EMPLOYEES, IT'S THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY.

>> AND YOU'RE GIVING BACK TO THE COMMUNITY?

>> YEAH, SO WHAT WE DO-- AND THIS HAPPENED AS OUR CUSTOMERS KIND OF CAME IN AND READ ABOUT US.

AND THEY SAID, WHAT CAN WE DO TO HELP VETERANS?

BECAUSE WE LOVE WHAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING.

AND THE NEXT TIME A VET COMES IN, I WANT TO BUY THEM A-A MEAL.

AND I SAID, HOW DO WE DO THAT?

I DON'T EVEN KNOW.

SO WE FIGURED OUT THAT WE COULD RING UP GIFT CARDS, UH, THAT OUR CUSTOMERS PAY FOR.

AND THEN THE GIFT CARDS, WE USE TOWARDS, UH, THROWING BIG PARTIES AND BIG EVENTS, WHERE ALL VETERANS CAN COME FROM WHEREVER AND EAT FOR FREE.

SO, WE'VE, OVER THE PAST YEAR, WE'VE PROBABLY DONE OVER 20 EVENTS.

>> 20 EVENTS.

>> WHERE, YEAH, I MEAN, WE'VE-- AND THEN WE FED VETERANS FOR FREE ON VETERANS DAY, FOR THE MARINE CORPS BIRTHDAY.

SO, PROBABLY HUNDREDS OF-OF MEALS OVER THE PAST YEAR.

>> EASY.

>> FOR VETERANS.

VETERANS IN NEED.

BUT SOMETIMES JUST VETERANS WHO JUST WANT A GOOD MEAL, AND WANT TO BRING THEIR FAMILY IN AND COME HANG OUT FOR THE DAY.

>> THAT SOUNDS PRETTY GOOD TO ME.

AND BY THE WAY, THE QUE WAS NAMED BEST BARBECUE NEWCOMER BY NJ.COM IN 2016 AND '17, RIGHT?

AND BEST BARBECUE IN NEW JERSEY BY THRILLIST IN 2016.

YOU GUYS ARE ONLY TWO YEARS OLD.

THAT'S SOME INCREDIBLE ACCOLADES RIGHT THERE.

HOW DOES THAT EMPOWER YOU TO MOVE FORWARD?

>> IT JUST REALLY MAKES US, UH, FEEL LIKE WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING.

>> YEAH, IT'S VALIDATING.

>> YEAH.

'CAUSE WE'RE WORKING HARD.

WE'RE COOKING FRESH EVERY DAY.

ALL OF OUR SIDES ARE HOMEMADE.

YOU KNOW, SO-- >> AND THIS IS KIND OF THE DREAM TOO.

SO WE ALWAYS SAY, BE A PART OF THE AMERICAN DREAM.

THE AMERICAN DREAM IS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ENVISIONING WHAT YOU WANNA DO AND ACHIEVING SOMETHING, AND KNOWING THAT REALLY, THE HARD WORK, UM, IS WHAT CAN TAKE YOU THERE.

SO FOR US TO WIN THINGS LIKE THAT, WE'RE NOT-- WE'RE NOT CHEFS.

WE DON'T COME FROM A CULINARY BACKGROUND.

BUT WE WERE FEARLESS ABOUT DOING WHAT WE WANTED TO DO.

AND WE HAD A VISION FOR ACHIEVING OUR DREAM.

AND SO FOR STUFF LIKE THAT, IT IS SIGNIFICANT TO US.

AND IT REALLY MAKES US FEEL LIKE WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT THINGS.

>> THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH.

DAN AND KATIE MISURACA.

CO-OWNERS OF RED, WHITE, AND QUE SMOKEHOUSE, IN KEARNY, NEW JERSEY.

AWESOME.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> "LIFE & LIVING" HAS BEEN A PRODUCTION OF THE CAUCUS EDUCATIONAL CORPORATION, CELEBRATING OVER 25 YEARS OF BROADCAST EXCELLENCE.

FUNDING FOR THIS EDITION OF "LIFE & LIVING" "WITH JOANNA GAGIS" HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY THE HEALTHCARE FOUNDATION OF NEW JERSEY, BERKELEY COLLEGE, WELLS FARGO, UNITED AIRLINES, SUMMIT MEDICAL GROUP, CHOOSE: NEW JERSEY, AND BY THE NORTH WARD CENTER.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY MELANDRE SALON AND SULIS SPA.

LOOK BEAUTIFUL, FEEL BEAUTIFUL.

"LIFE & LIVING "WITH JOANNA GAGIS" HAS BEEN PRODUCED IN PARTNERSHIP WITH TRISTAR STUDIOS.

>> I'M TAIWO ANJORIN.

BERKELEY COLLEGE.

CLASS OF 2011.

ASSISTANT GENERAL MANAGER, VERA WANG.

>> KATE HICKEY, CLASS OF 2006.

PROJECT MANAGER AT TRICARICO ARCHITECTURE AND DESIGN.

>> SAL FRISINA, CLASS OF 2009.

CHIEF CONSTRUCTION INSPECTOR OF CON EDISON.

>> TRACEY MUNDELL, CLASS OF 2010.

SALES SPACE MANAGER, PEPSICO.

>> FROM DIFFERENT WALKS OF LIFE, OUR STUDENTS SUCCEED IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

YET THEIR FIRST STEP IS EXACTLY THE SAME.

BERKELEY COLLEGE.