way to release the hostages and over the# two-state solution, we get two views.

Retired Brigadier General Jonathan Shimshoni# had a 25-year career in the Israel Defense## Force.

He's now one of the leaders of the# group Commanders for Israeli Security.

And## retired Major Gershon Hacohen had a# 42-year career in the Israel Defense## Force.

He's now at the Begin-Sadat Center# for Strategic Studies at Bar-Ilan University.

Thanks very much to you both of# you.

Welcome to the "NewsHour."

Yoni Shimshoni, let me start with you.

What is the best way, in your BRIG.

GEN. JONATHAN SHIMSHONI, Commanders# For Israeli Security: OK, well,## the be which is guided by some theory of total force,# force only, no diplomacy, no political direction.

And the more we apply force at the moment, not# that we shouldn't have during the first four to## six weeks, it's causing the hostages to wilt# and to be in greater jeopardy.

So we need to## somehow create some kind of deal that will include# stepping down, stepping back, or doing whatever## it takes to create a deal that will have a# political dimension to it to release the hostages.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Gershon Hacohen, do# you agree?

Do you think the Israel## should do "whatever it takes" --# quote, MAJ. GEN. GERSHON HACOHEN (RET.

), Bar-Ilan# University Hamas, because they are actually bringing an# existential threat to Isra existential warfare.

And we cannot focus ourselves# only on the other mission to release the hostages.## Actually, we are working in both sides with these# two efforts simultaneously, not just either/or.

And yet the offer that was just# put on the table is, in my eyes,## a kind of unconditional surrender of Israel.# It means a demand of Hamas to stop the war.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Yoni Shimshoni, what about that,## the idea that the Israeli go but also being willing to actually pursue this# diplomatic path?

We know from reports that it## is willing or considering a longer# pause for the release of hostages.

BRIG.

GEN JONATHAN SHIMSHONI: The more we# apply force, they will be in a last stand## type of mind-set.

And if they get# into a last stand kind of mind-set,## they will probably kill all# the hostages in the last stand.

The other option is that they would# be willing to seek a secure exit,## and -- of some kind.

And in that case,# they would use the hostages.

And the## logic of that situation suggests that# we should go for a deal as quickly as## we can.

And if it requires a diplomatic# cease-fire, whatever it is, do it now,## because the logic of this situation says, either# there's a deal or we lose all the hostages.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Gershon Hacohen,## is that MAJ. GEN. GERSHON HACOHEN:# That is really a danger.## Everyone aware about that.

We cannot ignore it.

But on the other side is the real existence of# Israel.

We cannot permit ourselves not Hamas in that occasion.

We are not just making# pressure upon Hamas in order to release the## hostages.

We are struggling to defend the Israel# existence.

This is the main goal of the war.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Yoni Shimshoni,# let's look beyond today.

Who do## you believe should run Gaza after the war ends?

BRIG.

GEN JONATHAN SHIMSHONI: Ultimately,## it's a Palestinian environme it is going to be a Palestinian# polity of one kind or another.

And what the world is telling# Israel in no uncertain terms,## the world being the United States,# Europe, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt,## and more, are telling us, yes, it needs to# be a Palestinian entity and it needs to be## rolled up in with the Palestinians in the# West Bank, i.e., the Palestinian Authority.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Gershon Hacohen, who do you# think should run Gaza after the war ends?

MAJ. GEN. GERSHON HACOHEN: Israel could# really support Gaza to be a kind of st And we are expecting and we have the# right to expect that this state will## be in alliances with Israel and not an enemy.# Right now, the Palestinian Authority is not## in alliances with Israel, far away from# that.

They are supporting terrorists.

We can live with the idea that the United# States really insisted that Gaza will stay## completely under Palestinian hands.

OK, but not# with Palestinian Authority.

I don't believe in the## promise of President Biden that he can change the# entity and the character of Palestinian Authority.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Yoni Shimshoni,# what about those criticisms,## specifically that the Palestinian Authority# and is corrupt and is, frankly, unpopular# among Palestinians in the West Bank already?

BRIG.

GEN JONATHAN SHIMSHONI:# I agree with the description,## but I don't accept a static theory of history.

The Germans and Japanese were the devil, were# demons, and Egypt was out to destroy Israel## for so many years.

I think things can be moved# if you inject hope and some kind of future and## maintain tremendous power and security control# for a long time and require demilitarization## for a long time and international# oversight.

I think things can be moved.

NICK SCHIFRIN: There are some who criticize Prime## Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for ma trying to extend his prime ministership,# as opposed to national security.

What do you think?

MAJ. GEN is leading our nation in a very complicated war.

I don't believe that our soldier will# sacrifice their life for that personal## interest of Netanyahu.

They are# struggling for something much## more sublime than a political interest# of somehow.

So, I don't believe in it.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Gershon Hacohen, Yoni# Shimshoni, thank you very much to you both.

BRIG.

GEN JONATHAN SHIMSHONI: Thank you.