- Good evening!

What a fantastic turnout.

It's so wonderful to see you all tonight.

Thank you so much for coming out.

I am Joy Potts, Director of Impact, and it's an honor for PBS North Carolina to be able to partner with Independent Lens to bring you virtual, in-person, and hybrid screenings and community-driven conversations about important topics like this one, sound versus language and resources for the deaf and hard-of-hearing communities.

Tonight's screening of "The Tuba Thieves" was made possible in part by grant funds from Independent Lens.

I also want to thank our local community partners, Arts Access North Carolina and RiverRun International Film Festival.

After we screen clips from "The Tuba Thieves," Eileen Bagnall, Executive Director of Arts Access, will lead the panel discussion with our distinguished guests.

All right, without further ado, let's get to the film, "The Tuba Thieves."

Let's watch, enjoy.

[audience applauds] - Hello and good evening.

I'm Eileen Bagnall, Executive Director of Arts Access North Carolina, and I'm very honored to have been asked by PBS North Carolina to lead this discussion tonight.

It's an important topic that's close to me in the work that we do at Arts Access, and I'm thrilled that so many of you have joined us here tonight to be part of the discussion.

Tonight, we have a frank discussion about sound and language and resources available for members of the deaf and hard-of-hearing community.

We wanna provide a safe space for an open and informative community-driven conversation.

So please feel free to ask your questions.

We're here.

This is your one chance to probably talk to a panel like this.

Participating in our discussion this evening, we have an impressive group of local subject matter experts.

Here with us this evening are panelists Vicki McMillan.

No?

- Valerie.

- Valerie.

Sorry, I get nervous.

I was looking at all the Ns in the other name.

Valerie McMillan, freelance ASL interpreter and educator.

Greg Whitt on the end, who is an educator-facilitator with Drum for Change.

And Jan Withers, Director of the Division of Services for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing within the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services.

The longest title.

I also wanna thank our four certified American Sign Language interpreters, Kim Wilson, who is sitting in the front row right now.

Brian Piñon, and they'll be on the platform, and Karen Magoon and Lee Williamson will be in the front row here, and they're voicing for Jan Withers.

Thank you all for the important work you do every day and for making this conversation accessible.

So, Jan, I'm gonna begin with you for the first question.

Thanks so much for being here tonight.

As the Director of the Division of Deaf and Hard of Hearing Services, what is your role at NCDHHS, and what resources are available in the community?

- [Interpreter] Thank you.

First of all, I'm thrilled to be here this evening at this wonderful event.

What we do at the Division of Services for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing is to provide a lot of support, advocacy, and resources to North Carolina's 1.3 million deaf, hard-of-hearing, and deaf-blind citizens.

We have seven regional centers across the state of North Carolina.

They serve all 100 counties, and our staff provide direct support and advocacy with communication access for consumers in a variety of situations, in hospitals, with law enforcement, in the court system, and social services as well as emergency services.

We also provide training at different levels across the state.

We provide that training to staff that provide services to the community that's deaf, hard-of-hearing, and deaf-blind.

- Wonderful, thank you.

Valerie.

Gotta get it right.

As a certified ASL interpreter, what influenced your decision to learn American Sign Language?

- I am like Jan as well, where I am very honored to be a part of the panel, so thank you for having me here.

I am a member of the CODA community, which is children of deaf adults.

So both my parents are deaf, so I am really considered an OHCODA, only hearing child of deaf adults.

Both parents are deaf.

I have three siblings that are deaf, so I have five generations of deafness in the family.

And so just watching, growing up in that family, not having representation really influenced me to be a sign language interpreter.

I had never seen a Black interpreter in my life.

And so that is one of the things that I wanted to do and make sure that I give back to the deaf community.

- You know, that's so important because one of the things we do at Arts Access is really try to bring in interpreters that are reflective of the performance, the film, the event that we're working on.

So it's not always, you know... What so many people may have seen is a white person interpreting for, you know, any other ethnicity.

So that's one of the things we've been working on because it is important.

- Absolutely.

- Greg, it's your turn.

We're excited to have you here tonight.

You opened a small business, Drum for Change.

Can you tell us about it?

- Yeah, so at Drum for Change, I bring a band full of instruments to your corporation, congregation, community, or classroom and put people in a circle of chairs and help them all play nicely together.

So it's leveraging the power of music for communication, cooperation, and collaboration, which has all these wonderful benefits in the arena of wellness and creative self-expression.

- That's great.

Jan, our society is sound-centric.

Can you explain what that means and how you see that affecting children and adults in the deaf and hard-of-hearing community?

- [Interpreter] Yes, I've thought a lot about that, and it's interesting how our society is so focused on sound and full of sound, all the things that are manmade, and people truly rely on sound in just a variety of different ways.

For example, at a bus station or at an airport, you have overhead announcements that are auditory that everybody's listening for.

People who design buildings, they design those buildings with sound in mind for the public and for that communication.

And as people engage with others, they expect them to know how to communicate through the use of sound.

And when it comes to people who are deaf, hard-of-hearing and deaf-blind, my experience is people are a little taken aback by us and not knowing how to communicate and how communication happens within our group and how communication is not the same or involves language.

They're astounded that I can drive, for example.

Driving is a visual activity, it has nothing to do with sound, and we can do it well.

So we have constant experiences of engaging with the world through sound, and we advocate for communication equity where I work.

And for anybody that works with people who are deaf, hard-of-hearing, whether they be children or adults, that they understand the true difference between sound and language and how to make communication fully equitable for all, just as if two hearing people were talking to one another or two deaf people were talking to one another using each other's language.

And it's an ongoing process and a tough one for sure.

- Thank you.

Valerie, from your experience, can you share how important it is for hearing folks with a deaf or hard-of-hearing person in their life to learn sign language?

- It is crucial for them to learn sign language because you want to make sure that that individual, your loved one, your friends, whomever it may be, that they are included.

Inclusivity is so important these days, and to have access to communication is everywhere.

And so if you don't have access to communication, then you're left out, and you're forced to feel like you're alone instead of included.

Research really has proven that a lot of parents who are hearing don't learn sign language when they have deaf children, which is sad, because a lot of times those kids feel isolated at home, and that's why you have extra other issues that come up with these kids because they are frustrated because they can't communicate with their families.

And so I think a lot of times hearing people want people to be more like them because it's easier for people to adapt to be like you, opposed to you meeting someone where they are.

And so it is very important to make sure that you include everyone that you are around.

- Thank you.

Greg.

So you talked about using drums to help people play together and play nicely.

What are the aspects of drumming, the healing aspects of drumming and music?

- So I'm affiliated with a professional association called the Drum Circle Facilitators Guild, and we have 250 members internationally.

And as an organization, we've helped compile a website that's put together by a fellow named Peter Shearer that lists about 60 different clinical studies on the benefits of group drumming and wellness.

And so some of the synthesis of all of that data would say that there are pretty consistent benefits in drumming as a wellness activity.

And those include things like camaraderie, nurturing, support, removal of a sense of isolation, physiological impacts that boost mood, that reduce inflammation, and help boost cancer-fighting cells, two of those in particular.

So lots and lots of documentation about the benefits of drumming, not only physiologically but also psychosocial.

- That's fascinating.

So, Jan, we're back to you.

In the parts of the film, "The Tuba Thieves," the filmmaker's trying to convey what sound is and what listening means.

There are a bigger question at stake here, sound versus language.

Can you please try to explain that and sometimes how even professionals get it wrong and confuse the two?

- [Interpreter] Yes.

Again, because our society is so sound-centric, many people really have a hard time comprehending that there are other ways to communicate.

You can do that through visual means, through tactile means.

In my experience, you have to include people and provide them with exposure to different ways of engaging with one another so that they're able to begin understanding those different ways.

It also helps, for example, parents to meet deaf adults, a variety of deaf adults because there's so many types of deaf, hard-of-hearing, and deaf-blind adults that are out there.

You saw just a few examples in this screening, exposing them, socializing with them, becoming more comfortable and familiar with a variety of ways to communicate.

And as you also saw with Nature Boy, his experience in the audio booth, and you saw the difference when he was trying to understand the words and repeat them, and then all of the spirit just came out through his expression in sign language.

It was almost like a song.

And you could see the difference in the two when he just repeated the words and when he signed them.

And Valerie's nodding 'cause she gets it.

There are deaf people that enjoy music, as you saw in the film.

And there are those that enjoy percussive music like the drums, and that's really neat for some.

Again, I think it's important to simply take the time to recognize the diversity in the deaf, hard-of-hearing, and deaf-blind community and to really understand that, language, it has a structure that resides in your mind, and you can express it and you can receive language through your eyes, through your ears, through spoken language, through your voice and through your signs, through tactile touch, all of these means.

And I think we limit ourselves by focusing so much on one by focusing on sound.

- That's true.

And also for many of you, if you're not aware of it, ASL is clearly a visual language.

But also, much as we have different dialects throughout just the United States, there are different versions of ASL and not just Spanish ASL and British ASL and Irish ASL, but Black ASL also.

So it's not just one language.

All right, Valerie.

You've talked about growing up in a family of deaf individuals.

Over the years, have you witnessed progress or changes in accessibility for deaf and hard-of-hearing community?

And what type of events do you interpret?

- I think overall throughout the years, at least from my time period, that I have noticed a change.

Now, the change has happened slowly, but it is happening where I think more venues these days are making it just accessible period without a deaf person asking for access, just making it readily available so that anyone that comes to their venue, that they have access to communication.

Now, that doesn't happen everywhere you go, but I think it's slowly getting out there in the communities.

The way I try to explain it to people is that it's not about the dollars.

I think we get so stuck on the money, the budget, that we forget about that we serve everyone.

And if you want everyone to feel part of something, then you need to make sure that it's accessible to everyone.

There are a lot of things that are accessible due to law, right?

So physical buildings are made a certain way because for those who are physically handicapped.

And I do this because I don't consider them handicapped, but that's what the law says.

But then there's individuals out there that have hidden disabilities that people don't think about.

And, so again, it comes back to the dollars.

And if we can move away from the dollars and look more so at inclusivity and equitable ability to everyone, then I think this world will be a better place.

And the places that I normally interpret, I mean, anywhere you can think of, you all going, you will have an interpreter.

I have had the opportunity to interpret, theatrical interpreting out of the country, with Karen at a conference.

So, I mean, musical interpreting, concerts, your everyday doctor's appointments, social services, things like that.

But anywhere you can go, you'll see a deaf person possibly.

So just make sure that it's accessible.

- Thank you.

And some of the work we do at Arts Access is working with cultural organizations to make sure that they are welcoming to people with disabilities and they have accessible programming and American Sign Language for performances, lectures, gallery tours.

We've worked with a lot of organizations in the 40 years that we've been around to help broaden the community that is able to take advantage of the great cultural opportunities in North Carolina.

Okay, Greg.

How easy is it for someone who is deaf or hard-of-hearing or anyone with a disability, a person with limited sight, for instance, to participate in drumming?

And what are the benefits?

- Well, it's interesting that you say people, because it's really individual, right?

Everyone's gonna have a different level of capacity.

Everyone's gonna have a different level of musicianship and an ability to participate.

So as a teaching artist, you know, a lot of us in the arena of arts get attached to our art form and how it's supposed to be done.

In the arena of teaching artists, specifically in working in inclusion settings, it becomes the challenge of, how do I get everyone to participate at whatever level they can?

And so I've been able to do this with all kinds of audiences, whether that's youth with emotional regulation issues or elders with memory care problems or people with visual impairments.

And so every time, I'm surprised at how much people are able to access.

Just blows me away because everyone wants to participate and engage and do the things that other people might be doing.

And so to ask, how could a person with hearing impairment do this?

I don't know because I don't have that challenge personally, but I'm excited to see how anyone wants to critically express themselves through my particular medium.

- And anyone who was holding onto a balloon today during the show, during the film, it was clear that you can definitely feel the vibrations, and there was a difference between how the tubas felt and how the drums felt.

All right, now it's your turn, audience.

We have time for a couple of questions, and we are going to have a member of the staff with a microphone, and we do ask, and she's waving her hand, it's Joy.

We do ask that you wait until you have a microphone so that everyone's able to hear you.

First question.

Dan?

- [Dan] I'm never shy to ask a question.

And maybe a little bit challenging too.

So although I recognize the importance of having ASL interpreters at events, and you mentioned, and speaking specifically to Valerie, but I think everybody there could chime in probably, you know, the budget is a real issue for small organizations especially.

At DPAC, they can absorb that budget relatively easily.

I'm not sure exactly how to describe, but, you know, a small local organization that's totally volunteer-run, that's doing it on a shoestring, what resources may be available to help with a budget or how would you best advise that they look into making sure that that can be a part of a budget?

I know one of the answers sometimes is like, "Hey, you pay for the lights, "figure out a way to pay for the ASL."

But it gets complicated.

- I think collaborating with other organizations could be a start, getting in contact your regional center.

So, you know, Jan Withers spoke about, she's the director of the Division of Services for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing.

And so there are seven regional centers across the state of North Carolina.

So maybe contacting one of the regional centers in your area to see if they have any resources such as interpreting organizations.

They may know a friend of a friend, right?

There are sometimes that interpreters will do things pro bono.

Understanding there are constraints, they won't be able to do it every time, but it might be something they love to do, they wanna give back to the community.

So starting there, I think, will be a good resource to get that started.

- [Dan] Thank you.

- And it is important to budget always for access services, whether you know it or not, because you may find out that this person who is requesting this service, we always say, generally, they don't come by themselves.

They're bringing people with them, they may bring a group, and those are tickets they wouldn't have sold, which is one justification for it.

It's connecting.

We always encourage people to bring in an advisory council, if you are starting ASL performances, to bring in people who are supportive of the arts, who are deaf, who are hard-of-hearing, and interpreters to also talk about what their process is to make sure they're giving the best quality interpretation for the audience.

- And I think having a member of the advisory board, making sure that representation.

Invite them to the table, right?

So having individuals talk about something that they may know a little bit about, but having experts at the table will definitely help you move forward in that direction.

- [Interpreter] Yes, we're in sync, Valerie.

I was gonna say please include people with lived experience, members of the community.

That's the key to so many things.

We often know best what the solutions may be to provide services to us.

So feel free to ask.

- I hope that answered your question.

- Any other questions?

And then we have one in the back.

- [Audience Member] This is a noticing.

We're all seeing this film for the first time, correct?

It's fascinating and beautiful.

And the piece that I noticed out of the thread of the film and what you just said, Valerie, was I'd like to see a new world.

I'd like to see a world that's redesigned.

And I recognize the experience of living differently in relationship to nature and living differently in relationship to the nature of who we are as human beings and to connect the disconnected.

This may be a yes and comment question.

We have a friend who recently joined the board for Dix Park, and there's conversations around what do we want to see here.

If you're not already connected, where would you suggest, for yourself and maybe others in the community, to connect in order to be boots on the ground as Raleigh continues to grow and be this vision of having a world that can listen at a deep level for the whole community to be heard?

Thank you.

- [Interpreter] Yeah, again, you can always reach out to our division.

We can connect you with members of the community.

Remember, also, we can provide guidance.

And I'd like to take this opportunity to tell you something about DeafSpace.

Gallaudet University, which is a liberal arts university for the deaf, they're located in Washington, D.C., they had an architect who was also deaf design a building with visual space in mind from beginning to end so that you could see in every direction clearly.

And you can see people signing.

And so it doesn't have to be an architect, but there are people locally with lived experience that can just be involved on local boards and guide you.

- That's great and very important.

One more question in the back.

- [Audience Member] Hello, thank you for being here tonight.

I guess this is more of a general question.

It's really open-ended.

How can we engage children who are deaf, blind, and hard-of-hearing?

Like at the zoo, at historic sites, at a state park?

What can we do to actually have them feeling like they're included and they're able to access those places?

- The first thing that came to mind for me is, every year, this is actually pre-COVID, every year, King's Dominion had deaf day at King's Dominion.

Maybe start off something like that.

Have a deaf day where you invite the school system, school for the deaf to come out with their students.

Or even just a deaf day on a weekend, on a Saturday, where the deaf community, along with the deaf kids, can come out with their CODA kids.

Starting something small like that and see how it kind of impact the community.

And maybe, you know, one try is not enough sometimes, you know, maybe do it two or three times, but make sure that it's out in advance notice so that people will be able to get the word out there to their friends.

- And contact us.

We spread a lot of information.

We have a newsletter, social media, and we talk about events that are accessible.

There's an ASL story time that happens at a couple of the libraries throughout the state.

We post that.

If you're with the zoo, we work with the zoo on an audio description project where we described 50 different exhibitions and habitats and collaborated with an app that's coming out so that people with vision loss are able to go to the zoo and find out what the habitat looks like and what's going on.

And I don't know how much of the app, I only know the part we worked on, but if it does have further, you know, information about ASL, training staff, hiring people that are actually deaf so that you do have people on staff that are able to communicate with visitors.

And, again, even training at the window, basic signs, even if it's a poster that they can see and the patrons can't see, but with basic signs so that they're able to answer questions when somebody comes up with their family.

Again, not just on deaf day, but on every day.

- Oh, absolutely, every day.

- [Interpreter] Yes.

And, our staff, they also work closely with people that work at different venues and they provide training to them on how to interact with people who are deaf, hard-of-hearing, and deaf-blind and make their venues accessible.

We have a calendar of events that we send out to the community.

We are happy to connect you to members of the community by posting those things on our calendar.

So just reach out, reach out, contact us.

- Yeah, get proactive.

Rather than viewing these occasions as challenges for your staff or your program, learn how to create occasions for celebration so that we create that inclusive culture and that we invite and celebrate.

- That's great.

Okay, we're in our wrap up, and I have a final question.

The first one's actually for Jan and Valerie, to both of you.

A sound barrier in life means a lack of access and ableism.

How can we, as a society, break this sound barrier for millions, if not billions, of folks who are deaf, hard-of-hearing, or experiencing any kind of hearing loss?

And also, if you can talk a little bit about audism.

- [Interpreter] When I think about sound barriers, I'm really thinking more about communication barriers and finding ways to ensure that full communication is actually happening between two individuals or between an individual and the event that they're attending, making sure that there are resources there and that people understand what to do to ensure they're providing full communication access.

For example, in healthcare, I like to say that communication equity is health equity.

You can replace the word health with anything, right, to make that equity happen.

So, again, I think in terms of, "Do I understand them, do they understand me?

"Do we have a way that we understand one another?"

And that will help you kind of frame your situation to make sure communication is at the forefront.

- Jan really said it all, but I just wanted to add that, I think a lot of times we think that the interpreters are there for the deaf person, but the interpreter is there for you as well.

Because without the interpreter, you won't be able to communicate with the deaf person.

So if you can think of it that it's communication on both ends versus one end, that would definitely make things go smoother.

- All right, Greg, your last question.

You have had held hundreds of drum circles.

In your experience, what do people get out of it when they get the chance to play the drums?

- Wow.

Oh, okay, so what do people get out of it?

One, they're getting an opportunity to make music, right?

And most of us spent our childhoods being shushed.

And if that was you... Yeah, I see some nods out there and some acknowledgement, right?

Drum circle's the occasion to make all the noise that you wanna make.

And how often does that happen, right?

Does anyone ever encourage you to bang on stuff and make noise?

No.

And then, you're getting that creative outlet, you're getting that stress reduction, and you're getting to do it with all kinds of other people.

And so you can be expressive without words, and you can do that in a group where you are seen and heard, and you can do that in ways that are joyful and engaging with the group and that are, in fact, biologically good for you.

- Excellent.

We all like to make some noise sometime.

So more information about my organization, Arts Access North Carolina.

As I said, we're celebrating 40 years this year of creating access to the arts for people with disabilities.

And our most exciting thing in this year is that we've opened up a gallery in downtown Raleigh that showcases the work of disabled artists.

So if you're ever in the downtown Raleigh area, first Friday, please stop by.

We rotate our exhibits every couple months.

I just wanna thank you all for your thoughtful responses.

You really shared a lot about your life and what it's like to navigate the world.

Whether it's through your art making, through communication.

That's been wonderful.

Now, if anyone's interested in participating in a drum circle because Greg's gotten you really excited about the idea talking about it, we're gonna rearrange some chairs, take a few minutes, and Greg is going to set up at least one round of drum circles and possibly two.

[audience applauds] - Thank you.

- Are you ready?

First rule would be that having fun is mandatory and womandatory.

Don't take anything I say too seriously, right?

Oh, no, no, thank you.

Think of your drums like trampolines and your hands like children, and let them bounce off of the trampoline.

Don't smoosh it, right?

And then, lastly, remember that drums hit back.

If you hit it really hard, it's not gonna feel a thing, but your hands might, so be gentle, right?

That doesn't mean be wimpy, just be gentle.

All right, are you ready?

Please raise the hand that you write with.

Raise it really high.

Wave it in the air like you just don't care.

Make it firm and flat like a board, and then we'll bounce it in the middle of the drum altogether one time.

One time only.

On four, three, two, one.

[drums beat] Four, three, two, one.

[drums beat] Four, three, two, one.

[drums beat] Other hand.

Four, three, two, one.

[drums beat] Four, three, two, one.

[drums beat] Four, three, two, one.

[drums beat] Awesome, that's our low sound, the bass sound on the drum.

There's a higher sound on the edge.

You make that sound by spreading your thumb and then laying your fingers on the drum.

Thumbs are off and fingers are on.

And then right about here, we're just gonna take a little walk on our drums.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] Ready, four, three, two, one.

Oh, that was an awesome stop.

Maybe the best stop ever.

He's gonna turn that mic down when we're drumming, otherwise, we're gonna have auditory overload on that system when the drums get going.

Now, the way I like to introduce people to drumming is by introducing the people with their drums.

And so we're gonna go around the circle, and I invite you to share a little something with your instrument.

You've had the drum lesson, you know the low sound and the higher sound.

And now it's just about putting them together, right?

And so I'll play a little something and share my name, and then we'll pass it around the group so that everyone has an opportunity to know who their friends and neighbors are here in the drum circle.

So I'm Greg.

- I'm Annalise.

- And I challenge you to repeat after me.

So as you have a turn to do this, the secret for success is to keep it simple.

If you do the 20-minute drum solo, no one will repeat that back to you.

But if you keep it short and sweet, everyone will have success.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] Yeah, just a name.

- Annalise.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] - Uh, Joe.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] - Valerie.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] - Joanna.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] - Jen.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] - Nathan.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] - Bo.

[no audio] [no audio] [no audio] [no audio] [no audio] [no audio] [no audio] [no audio] [no audio] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] - Nice, give yourselves a hand.

With your drums, yeah.

[upbeat drum music] Okay, now we're about to create a song, never heard before and never to be heard again unless they're still videoing.

And so here's how it's gonna work.

I'm gonna start a beat on my drum, and I'm gonna encourage you to, just for a moment, relax, close your eyes if you're comfortable doing that.

If you still have a balloon nearby, you can hold the balloon, or just rest your hands on your drum and you'll be able to feel it.

And then take a moment to listen to what I'm doing, and then, one at a time, add something to the song.

You can play anything you want as long as you help me sound good.

Now, I know we have a couple of musicians in the circle already, so I'll be curious to see how this goes.

Now, I'm gonna start off, and we'll work our way around in this direction.

Thank you for volunteering.

[group laughs] And so by the time we get around to Annalise, there's gonna be no room left, and she's gonna be really challenged to figure out how she's going to fit in.

This is like the puberty of the music world, right?

We're all trying to figure out how to fit in without annoying anyone else?

Good luck.

[upbeat drum music] When you're ready, add something.

[upbeat drum music] Don't give up, keep going.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] Keep going.

[upbeat drum music] Keep going.

Getting ready.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] One, two, back to your beat, go.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] One, two, here we go.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] Really, really soft.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] Gradually, gradually, a little bit louder.

Take it slow.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] And then gradually little softer.

[upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [upbeat drum music] [group applauds] Nice, nice.

Now let's have a little check in and maybe invite you to share a word or two about what you're noticing about this experience.

Because, you know, when I discovered drumming, I was standing on a sidewalk at NC State University when 300 children lined up for a parade.

And this one guy came out playing one drum like this.

And everyone started marching in perfect unison in harmony.

And it was a really moving thing to see, but it wasn't just moving emotionally, it was moving physically because my toes started tapping.

And before I knew it, I was in that parade, and I was marching along too.

And so this is music designed to move you, and I'm wondering if you notice any difference as you're playing.

What might be shifting in your psyche or physiology?

- Well, I think that rhythm is something that everyone can feel, and we are doing that altogether.

So it's a gathering.

- I noticed in the last piece as we were adding in, eventually it synchronized a lot more.

People started off a little bit off kilter, but over time it kind of blended more.

- I felt joy as it progressed because everyone was adding something I wasn't expecting.

But it still felt like it was part of the same composition, even though we were creating it on the spot.

- Really neat the way everybody started to play in unison, and a real togetherness about that.

From our drums to God's ears.

- I guess just kind of, yeah, getting to see like everybody sort of hops on the same train, but the way that nobody has the same thing that they're bringing to it, which is nice to see, I guess.

- I sort of like the same thing, but it reminds me a little bit about like the sound you hear with cicadas, how it all sort of just meshes in and goes, even though nobody knows.

- Well, I'm just gonna say something personal.

It's incredible because I feel it in my heart.

It resonates in my chest, and it feels very good.

- [Interpreter] So when I get into the rhythm, it loses meaning, because I'm doing it in sign language, but I submerge myself into my own rhythm.

I can feel myself.

- Made me smile.

- It's like three or four different drums, but every drum is different because everybody's using a different part of their hand or a different, you know, strength into it.

And I kinda like that variety, even though it's the same instrument, sort of.

- I had this sense of becoming like an organism, a bunch of separate entities, and by the end of the song it was like we were all becoming one body.

- I love that.

I like how the rhythm just kind of takes a shape on its own and carries me and I sort of, I'm able to kinda turn off my thinking mind for a while and just kinda be present with that.

- I thought it was incredible how much diversity yet unity we had.

And so it was kind of blowing me away with that, how we were all so different, adding something different, yet we were creating something together.

- I was free to be me.

- It was kind of a miracle how everybody started rowing in the same direction, but before you get there, even chaos could be beautiful too.

- I wrote a book called "From Chaos to Calm" and talked about the creative process.

I get it.

It's beautiful, magical.

I'm biased 'cause I live with you and I love you, and I've watched you grow through 15 years to become here at PBS where I used to work.

So I think it's fascinating to see you and put these all pieces together.

You know, the integrative arts I think is the future, and perhaps we'll do a further story, a documentary on the power of integrating the arts so that everyone can have a voice and so that all voices can be heard equally.

- If you don't have one, I highly recommend having your own personal cheerleader.

It is a wonderful thing.

Yeah, there's a lot of really juicy metaphor in the drum circle, right?

Everyone has a place to fit in.

Everyone has a unique contribution to share.

There's some synergy that happens, that creates a song much greater than any of the individual pieces that are in that.

And, yet, very often we leave all of that richness here in the drum circle when we could take it out into the larger world and embrace those kinds of ideas in our everyday lives.

And so that might be my challenge for you as we wrap it up this evening.

How do you create those occasions where we all have a place in the circle and where we all have room to contribute and share something that makes us all richer as a result?

Thanks for your listening.

Hey, how about you guys that were able to just observe it.

Do you have anything to share?

Oh, oh, let me come back there.

- [Audience Member] Hi.

Even observing, I think the spirit of like I think somebody said the organism, it kind of overtakes you a little bit, and we can also feel the beat, you know, from here.

And I was holding the balloon so I was like, I wasn't drumming but I could feel it like in my chest, but also in my fingers.

So I felt very much like it was like one step back, but I very much felt connected to you all, but also everybody else in the room because of it.

So it definitely radiates.

- [Greg] Thank you for sharing.

If you wanna get all sciencey about it get into psychoacoustics and cymatics and the physiology of sound and how physics make all that stuff work and how different lengths of sound waves resonate in different places in our bodies, there's all kinds of ways that you can geek out on it.

But this is like electricity.

You don't understand how it works, and you still flip the light and make it come on.

And so I think that's really the magic of drumming.

It's the low-hanging fruit in the orchestra that people can access really quickly and really successfully.

Thanks for your listening, everyone, and for your contributions.

- Thank you so much, Greg, oh my goodness.

And the drum circle.

Y'all were fantastic.

[audience applauds] Thank you to our wonderful panelists, Jan Withers, Valerie McMillan, and Greg Whitt.

We appreciate you sharing your time and expertise and talent with us.

Thank you, Eileen, for leading the conversation and all the great work you do at Arts Access.

Many thanks to Lee, Ryan, Karen, and Kim for interpreting tonight's conversations.

And thanks to all of y'all for coming out and engaging with us tonight.

If you're interested, "The Tuba Thieves" premiere on Independent Lens next Monday.

I feel like my back is to everybody.

And that's Monday, May 20th at 10:00 p.m. on PBS North Carolina.

Stream at any time online or on the free PBS app.

Please download it if you don't have it.

We appreciate your feedback about the film and tonight's event.

Please text TUBA, T-U-B-A, to 415-223-8013 to complete a brief interactive survey.

See me if you can't remember that number.

Happy to share it with you.

Be on the lookout in your email next week for a link of the recording and tonight's discussion, resources, the survey link, and when and where to watch and stream "The Tuba Thieves."

Now, if you're interested in continuing to help us bring popular PBS shows, riveting documentaries, and formative how-to programs, fun lifestyle shows, Rootle, our 24/7 PBS kids channel and service and free screening and engagement events just like tonight, I hope you're inspired to make a tax-deductible donation to PBS North Carolina.

We really do, though, really appreciate you coming out tonight on this Monday evening, and it was just so great to see y'all.

And thanks, this drum circle is gonna live in my mind the rest of the night.

It was beautiful.

Thank you, all, have a great evening.

[audience applauds]