WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The Trump administration says# it plans to dismantle the National Center for## Atmospheric Research in Colorado, which is the# nation's premier atmospheric science center.

In announcing the closing, Budget# Director Russell Vought called## the center -- quote -- "one of the largest# sources of climate alarmism in the country."

NCAR, as the center is known, was# founded in 1960 and has facilitated## generations of breakthroughs in climate# and weather science.

The announcement## has drawn outcry from meteorologists and# climate scientists across the country.

Earlier this week, I spoke with two of them# who are very familiar with the center's work.## Brown University's Kim Cobb is a climate# scientist and director of the Institute at## Brown for Environment and Society, and Matthew# Cappucci is senior meteorologist at MyRadar.

Thank you both so much for being here.

Kim Cobb, to you first.

What is NCAR and why,## as a climate scientist, is it so important# and seemingly precious to this community?

KIM COBB, Brown University:# Thanks for having me, William.

NCAR is a really historic# institution in our field.

It,## of course, dates back decades now.

And, over# that time, it has really woven itself into the## fabric of both weather and climate science# across the country and around the world.

We're talking about unique, one-of-a-kind# facilities like supercomputers, ticked-out## airplanes, and most importantly, a staff of over# 800 people who are at the top of their game in## innovating in weather and climate science for# public good, putting out data that is on every## single climate scientist's computer around the# country, if not around the world, and a nexus of## collaboration as well that is important training# grounds for the next generation of leaders.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And, Matthew# Cappucci, as a meteorologist,## how important is NCAR to your profession?

MATTHEW CAPPUCCI, Senior Meteorologist,# MyRadar: I mean, NCAR is really the## birthplace of all the tools# we use, both technologically.

And, really, the discoveries that are made# at NCAR are crucial to our understanding## of how the atmosphere works.

That's# where we first learned about the MJO,## the Madden-Julian Oscillation, one of# the biggest overturning circulations in## the atmosphere that governs how so many# things, for example, hurricanes behave.

It's where we first created a special product# used by airplanes when they're landing to avoid## wind shear, disruptive changing winds with# height that could cause plane crashes.

They## invented a system there to prevent that.# That's where dropsondes were invented,## those little probes that are dropped# out of the belly of airplanes in the## middle of hurricanes to figure# out how strong the hurricanes are.

So, so many different tools and# discoveries have come from NCAR.## In addition, the modeling is incredibly# important.

And if we're sort of putting## the brakes on that, I worry about the# implications for weather forecasting.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Kim Cobb, well, what more on# that?

Well, let's say NCAR is broken up.

What## are the impacts, both for the scientific community# and for Americans who benefit from its research?

KIM COBB: I think what's really important# to remember is that NCAR focuses on the## entire continuum from weather that ranges# over hours and days that's designed to## aid the forecasts that keep people safe# and protect infrastructure and our economy.

But they also go all the way out# to looking decades into the future## and really understanding that most# important intersection right now,## how weather is responding to ongoing# climate change.

It's these kinds of## questions at the very forefront of our# field that they're focused on right now.

And these are innovations that are going to reap# absolutely untold dividends through time.

So, by## breaking this -- these up and its component parts,# if you will, first of all, the administration has## made clear that it's the climate portion of the# portfolio which they are taking squarely in aim.

And, of course, that is the portion that# is right now so important to invest in## as we seek to understand more about the coming# threats and impacts of ongoing climate change,## 2025, of course, wrapping up to be# tied for the second warmest year ever.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: And, Matthew, the White House# has argued that NCAR and its undertakings and## its work is somehow contaminated with# woke ideology or climate alarmism.

Is there research or data that is coming out## of NCAR that is politicized# or ideological in any way?

MATTHEW CAPPUCCI: Truth be told, no.# The atmosphere does not possess a voter## registration card.

I think it's important# to remember that scientists do science.

And,## really, the only people doing the# politicization are, for the most part,## politicians and the general public and the media.

It worries me, though, that this fits into# an overall pattern of the demonization of## both science and academia.

The idea that# we're trying to shut down science that## produces results we don't like, it's# a very worrisome trend.

And we have## seen this other times in history,# and it never really ended well.

And I'm just very concerned about the tone that's# being taken that simply because one political## party or even one political person doesn't like# the fact that we're learning about the atmosphere.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I mean,# Kim, as Matthew is saying,## we know that President Trump has called climate# change a hoax.

He believes it's nothing that## we need to focus on.

He has directed so# much of the administration to move away## from climate research, from renewable# energy, doubling down on fossil fuels.

I'm just curious as to what -- are you# worried similarly about the future of## climate research if we continue to chip# away at these foundational projects?

KIM COBB: Well, obviously, as Matthew said, we# turn our backs on science to great risk and peril.

And I think most Americans get it right now.# In the headlines every year are these horrific## climate-fueled disasters that have taken such# a toll on communities and our national economy,## to the tune of billions of dollars per year.# So this is not a controversial subject in that## regard.

People do want the best available# science information to protect themselves.

And that's exactly what NCAR and its# scientists are focused on.

And I think the## Trump administration is just not understanding# how long an investment has been made to get us## to this point and the many dividends that we# have already reached and that, once you break## something like this, it's really going to be hard# to put it back together again.

That's my concern.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Matthew, the OMB# director in his announcement said## they will do a systematic review of the# work that NCAR does, and critical weather## information and research will just get sent# somewhere else or done in another location.

How confident are you that a breakup of NCAR could# still keep some of the critical elements intact?

MATTHEW CAPPUCCI: I think so many times# this administration has historically put## the cart before the horse.

And what I mean# by that is, it seems like just a year ago,## they were cutting a huge chunk of# National Weather Service forecasters.

And then, after they were laid off, the government# realized, oh, wait, we kind of need them, and## brought them back.

This seems like another really# shortsighted decision made by the administration## without realizing or fully researching the# potential implications of what could happen.

And I also just sort of think this strikes the# wrong tone for just about everybody.

Weather## and climate affect everybody.

And, realistically,# you're much more likely to be hit by a tornado or## hurricane in a red state.

And so I'm surprised# by sort of Trump and his administration doing## something that could potentially have negative# impacts on his own core audience and following.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, that# is Matthew Cappucci and Kim Cobb.

Thank you both so much for being# here.

We really appreciate it.