[♪♪] GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO KENTUCKY TONIGHT.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

OUR TOPIC TONIGHT: D-E-I IN KENTUCKY COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES.

THOSE LETTERS STAND FOR: DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION.

SOME REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS ARE PUSHING TO END OR RESTRICT DEI PROGRAMS IN KENTUCKY HIGHER EDUCATION.

THEY ARGUE DEI IS DIVISIVE AND DISCRIMINATORY.

DEI SUPPORTERS SAY DIVERSITY PROGRAMS ARE NECESSARY, BECAUSE THEY HELP PREVENT DISCRIMINATION.

LAST WEEK, GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR CALLED DIVERSITY AN ASSET, NOT A LIABILITY.

TO DISCUSS THIS, WE ARE JOINED IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIO BY: STATE REPRESENTATIVE TINA BOJANOWSKI, A LOUISVILLE DEMOCRAT; RICHARD NELSON, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE COMMONWEALTH POLICY CENTER; TRAVIS POWELL, VICE PRESIDENT AND GENERAL COUNSEL OF THE KENTUCKY COUNCIL ON POSTSECONDARY EDUCATION; AND ANDREW WALKER, ASSOCIATED PROFESSOR OF CHRISTIAN ETHICS AND PUBLIC THEOLOGY AT THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY.

WE’LL TALK TO THEM LATER• BUT FIRST, I SPOKE EARLIER TODAY TO STATE REPRESENTATIVE JENNIFER DECKER, A SHELBY COUNTY REPUBLICAN, WHO IS SPONSORING A BILL TO DISMANTLE DEI OFFICES AT KENTUCKY’S PUBLIC COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES, AND BAN WHAT THE BILL CALLS DISCRIMINATORY CONCEPTS.

AS SHE TELLS US, DEI HASN’T LIVED UP TO ITS PROMISE.

>> REPRESENTATIVE DECKER, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, RENEE.

>> Renee: A QUESTION BASIC TO YOU ABOUT WHY YOU FILED HOUSE BILL 9.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH WITH THIS MEASURE?

>> I FILED HOUSE BILL 9 PAUSE I CARE ABOUT THE STUDENTS OF KENTUCKY.

ALL THE STUDENTS.

THE LOW INCOME STUDENTS THE UNDERREPRESENTED STUDENTS I WANT ALL STUDENTS TO HAVE AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO POST-SECONDARY SCHOOL, THE GREAT EQUALIZER.

>> Renee: SOME WOULD SAY IT SEEMS LIKE IT IS AN ANTITHESIS TO THAT PHILOSOPHY BECAUSE IT DOES TARGET PROGRAMS, ACTIVITIES PERHAPS THAT HELPS UNDERREPRESENTED MARGINALIZED STUDENTS.

DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THAT?

>> I DISAGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

IN FACT, THE DATA THAT IS WONDERFUL DATA PRODUCED BY THE KENTUCKY STATS, SHOWS JUST THE OPPOSITE TO BE TRUE.

THE DYE INITIATIVES HAVE BEEN DYE HAVE BEEN ON OUR CAMPUS STARTING IN 2011 AND THE DATA SHOWS SINCE 2011 WE HAVE LOST OVER 39,000 STUDENTS FROM OUR COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

AND OF THAT NUMBER, OVER HALF MORE THAN 24,000 STUDENTS HAD BEEN LOW INCOME, BLACK STUDENTS.

AND OF THAT NUMBER, LOW INCOME INSTATE BLACK STUDENTS WE HAVE LOST 34% SINCE 2011.

SO I BELIEVE JUST THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE.

I DO NOT BELIEVE DEI HAS LIVED UP TO ITS PROMISE TO BRING MORE DIVERSITY AND TO MAKE STUDENTS FEEL LIKE COLLEGE IS MORE ACCESSIBLE TO THEM.

>> Renee: IN YOUR LEGISLATION, YOU CALL FOR ELIMINATING, DEBUNKING AND DEFUNDING DEI OFFICES, DEPARTMENTS, PERSONNEL, TELL US, DO YOU THINK THAT THAT IS APPROPRIATE AT THIS TIME?

AND DOES THAT SUGGEST THAT THERE IS NO REMNANTS OF RACISM LEFT TO BE DEALT WITH IN YOUR PROPOSAL FOR ABOLISHING THOSE OFFICES?

>> THE DEI OFFICES ON OUR CAMPUS ARE NOT WHO IS CHARGED WITH ENSURING AGAINST DISCRIMINATION ON OUR CAMPUSES.

FEDERAL LAW ALREADY REQUIRES THAT EACH COLLEGE CAMPUS THAT RECEIVES FEDERAL FUNDING HAS OFFICES TO ENFORCE NONDISCRIMINATORY CONDUCT TO ENSURE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL.

THOSE OFFICES ARE ON EVERY COLLEGE CAMPUS AND THEY SHOULD BE ADEQUATELY FUNDED TO ENSURE THE VERY THINGS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

THE DEI OFFICES ARE NOT THOSE OFFICES.

THEY ARE SUPERFLUOUS AND THEY NEED TO END, THEY NEED TO STOP THAT FUNDING SHOULD BE SPENT ON INITIATIVES AT THAT TIME ACTUALLY HELP.

WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO FUND THOSE OFFICES WHEN THE DATA SHOWS THEY HAVE NOT HELPED.

>> Renee: ARE DISCRIMINATORY CONCEPTS DEFINED IN HOUSE BILL 9?

>> THEY ARE DEFINED AND WE ARE LOOKING AT THAT DEFINITION MORE.

IT MAY CHANGE.

BUT, YES, IT IS DEFINED IN THE BILL.

>> Renee: AND HOW IS IT DEFINED?

>> IT'S NOW DEFINED AS CONCEPTS THAT ARE TAKEN AS TRUE THAT ARE PROMOTE PREFERENCES AND THAT PROMOTE DISKIMMER TO CONCEPTS WITHOUT DEBATE, WITHOUT ALLOWING FOR DEBATE.

SO THERE IS NO CONCEPT THAT IS OFF LIMITS ON A COLLEGE CAMPUS.

BUT IT CANNOT BE PROMOTED IN IT IS A DISCRIMINATORY CONCEPT BY THE UNIVERSITIES.

>> Renee: AND ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT THIS LEGISLATION COULD INFRINGE UPON ACADEMIC FREEDOM?

THERE IS A SECTION OF YOUR BILL THAT SAYS IT SHALL NOT INFRINGE UPON ACADEMIC FREEDOM BUT SOMETIMES THE INTERPRETRATION OF DISCRIMINATORY CONCEPTS AND THE OTHER PROVISIONS THAT YOU OUTLINE COULD BE SUBJECTED COULD IT NOT AND OPEN TO INTERPRETATION?

>> IT SHOULD NOT BE, NO.

I THINK THE BILL IS VERY CLEAR THAT ALL CONCEPTS ARE TO BE DISCUSSED.

WE ARE TO HAVE A FREE EXCHANGE OF IDEAS WHICH IS NOT TAKING PLACE ON OUR CAMPUSES OR SO WE'VE HEARD FROM FACULTY AND FROM STUDENTS.

WE WANT NOTHING TO BE OFF LIMITS.

WE WANT ALL IDEAS TO BE DISCUSSED.

ALL MATTERS OF HISTORY.

BUT NOT IN THE LENS OF ONE IDEOLOGICAL CONCEPT TAKEN AS TRUE THAT CANNOT BE REFUTED.

>> Renee: HAVE YOU HEARD DIRECT COMPLAINTS IN KENTUCKY, I KNOW THERE IS OTHER LEGISLATION AND LAWS FLORIDA, TEXAS, SIMILAR TO THIS, BUT IN KENTUCKY, ARE THERE SUBJECT STAINIATED CASES OF BOTH STUDENTS AND FACULTY FEELING LIKE THEY'VE HAD TO BELIEVE AND EXPRESS THEIR BELIEF IN A PARTICULAR IDEOLOGY THAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER DISCRIMINATORY IS THAT SUBSTANTIATED?

>> IT IS SUBSTANTIATED.

THERE WILL BE TESTIMONY IN COMMITTEE ON THOSE POINTS BY FACULTY AND BY STUDENTS.

AND IT'S NOT WHAT I CONSIDER DISCRIMINATORY.

IT'S WHAT OUR CONSTITUTION AND OUR CASE LAW CONSIDERS DISCRIMINATORY.

>> Renee: AND AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, YOU BELIEVE THERE IS INFRASTRUCTURE ALREADY IN PLACE TO ALLOW FOR ATTENTION TO DISADVANTAGED, MARGINALIZED, LOW INCOME STUDENTS THEREFORE KNEE DATING THE NEED FOR DEI OFFICES AND EFFORTS?

>> YES.

IN FACT, ONE OF THE BEST EXAMPLES OF THAT IS DUAL CREDIT.

THERE IS WHERE YOU SEE A GREAT GROWTH IN CREDENTIALING AND ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT.

THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PREFERENCES BASED ON RACE, RELIGION, NATIONAL ORIGIN OR SEX.

THAT IS THE KIND OF INITIATIVE WE NEED.

WE NEED TO FOCUS ON PLACE AND NOT RACE.

WE NEED TO REACH STUDENTS IN APPALACHIA OR IN OTHER PARTS OF OUR STATE THAT ARE IN THE WEST END OF LOUISVILLE.

IN VARIOUS PLACES WHERE THERE ARE DISADVANTAGED STUDENTS WHO NEED EXTRA ATTENTION BY OUR COLLEGES.

THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO FOCUS OUR EFFORTS SO THAT KENTUCKY UNIVERSITIES CAN RETURN TO THE GREAT EQUALIZER THAT THEIR PROMISE WAS.

IF THEY FAILED IN THE PAST WE NEED TO CORRECT THAT THROUGH THE PROPER FOCUS.

>> Renee: REPRESENTATIVE DECKER, SOME MAY BE CONCERNED THIS IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE WHEREBY PROGRAMS THAT FOCUS ON ETHNIC STUDIES, WOMEN'S STUDIES, CELEBRATE BLACK HISTORY DURING FEBRUARY OR WOMEN'S HISTORY DURING MARCH, COULD BE IN DANGERED.

IS THAT THE DIRECTION THAT YOU AND OTHERS WOULD LIKE KENTUCKY TO GO IF HOUSE BILL 9 IS SUCCESSFUL IN FINAL PASSAGE?

>> HOUSE BILL 9 DOES NO SUCH THING, DOES NOT START DOWN ANY SLOPE IN THAT AREA.

ACTACADEMIC THOSE DISCIPLINES TT YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT, TO MY KNOWLEDGE DO NOT INCLUDE THE PROMOTION OF PREFERENCES.

THE DISCRIMINATORY CONCEPTS OF THAT OUR CONSTITUTION PROHIBITS.

I TOOK BLACK STUDIES.

I DIDN'T MAJOR IN IT BUT SOME OF MY GREATEST TIMES AT COLLEGE WERE STUDYING THE GREAT WRITINGS OF -- THOSE WILL NOT DEI CONCEPTS.

AT ALL.

SO I'M SURPRISED WHEN I HEAR THAT, BECAUSE AS DEFINED IN OUR STATUTE, DISCRIMINATION, THE CONCEPTS THAT WE WANT TO STOP ON OUR CAMPUS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

THEY ARE DISCRIMINATORY.

THEY PROVIDE PREFERENCES OR HARM BASED ON GROUP MEMBERSHIP.

I DON'T BELIEVE THOSE DISCIPLINES DO THAT AND I'M SURPRISED WHEN PEOPLE SAY THEY FEAR THAT'S ALMOST AN ALLEGATION ON THEIR PART THAT THOSE PROGRAMS INVOLVE THAT KIND OF TYPE OF DISCRIMINATORY CONCEPT, I DON'T BELIEVE THEY DO.

>> Renee: MY FINAL QUESTION REPRESENTATIVE DECKER AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME, ALONG THOSE SAME LINES ABOUT DISCRIMINATORY CONCEPTS AND JUST SO WE CAN HELP OUR VIEWERS UNDERSTAND SPECIFICALLY WHAT YOU MEAN, WOULD A CONCEPT SUCH AS WHITE PRIVILEGE BE CONSIDERED DISCRIMINATORY CONCEPT?

>> WHITE PRIVILEGE THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAS GOT TO BE STUDIED.

THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT THERE IS -- THAT IS A DYNAMIC.

WHAT THE BILL IS THAT WHAT IS PROHIBITED IS THE THOUGHT THAT EVERY INSTANCE THAT IS SPOKEN OF WHITE PRIVILEGE IS TO BE TAKEN AS TRUE NOT DEBATED, NOT DISCUSSED, AND THAT IT PERSISTS TODAY.

AND IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY THAT IT'S DISCUSSED.

WE WANT OPEN, HONEST DEBATE WITH GOODWILL.

WE WANT TO HAVE A FREE MARKET OF IDEAS.

BANNING NO CONCEPT, WHATSOEVER, OTHER THAN THE CONCEPT THAT THESE MATTERS HAPPENED, THEY STILL HAPPEN, THEY PERSIST, WITHOUT DEBATE ON THE SUBJECT.

>> Renee: AND THE REPERCUSSIONS THAT UNIVERSITIES COULD FACE FOR FAILING TO COMPLY WITH THE PROVISIONS OF HOUSE BILL 9 INCLUDE WHAT?

>> WELL, CURRENTLY THEY INCLUDE THE FACT THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL CAN HAVE A WRIT TO ENFORCE THESE LAWS ON THE CAMPUS AND THEY ALSO PROVIDE THE BILL CURRENTLY PROVIDES A PRIVATE CAUSE OF ACTION INCLUDING DAMAGES THAT CAN BE AWARDED.

THAT MAY CHANGE PERHAPS WE WOULD CONSIDER LOOKING ONLY AT THE WAIVER OF IMMUNITY FOR INJUNCTION AND DECLARER TO RELIEF.

THAT PART OF THE BILL IS STILL UNDER CONSIDERATION.

>> Renee: REPRESENTATIVE DECKER THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Renee: SO NOW LET'S HEAR FROM OUR PANEL IN THE STUDIO.

RIGHT NOW TO TRAVIS POWELL THE VICE-PRESIDENT GENERAL COUNSEL FOR THE CPE.

YOU HEARD REPRESENTATIVE DECKER EXPLAIN HER BILL AND I WANT TO ASK YOU, CRITICS OF DIVERSITY RELATED OFFICES AND PROGRAMS THEY VIEW THEM AS DISCRIMINATORY AND YOU HEARD REPRESENTATIVE DECKER MAKE HER CASE ARE FOR THAT.

YOUR REBUTTAL.

>> AND THANKS FOR HAVING ME, RENEE.

IT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE WE'RE PROUD OF OUR DEI POLICIES AT CP DEFINE THEM BROADLY AND MAKE THEM AS INCLUSIVE AS WE CAN.

AND IT'S INTERESTING THAT DEI POLICIES WOULD BE TIED PACK TO DECREASES OF ENROLLMENT OF LOW INCOME STUDENTS.

I DON'T REALLY SEE I FAIL TO SEE THE CONNECTION.

REPRESENTATIVE DECKER AND I WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS.

I CAN TELL YOU FROM OUR DATA WHILE ALL ENROLLMENT WAS DOWN ACROSS THE BOARD FROM 2011, AND 2011 WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF A RECESSION.

LOTS OF FOLKS WENT BACK TO SCHOOL WHICH WAS GREAT AND WE HOPE TO GET THEM BETTER EMPLOYED MOVING FORWARD AND WE WOULD LIKE TO REENGAGE THAT POPULATION WITH LOW INCOME STUDENTS THEY WENT BACK TO WORK.

WE LOST STUDENTS OF ALL TYPES LOW INCOME AND NON-LOW INCOME.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SUCCESS RATES OF OUR LOW INCOME AND UNDERREPRESENTED STUDENTS FROM 2012-2013, RETENTION RATES ARE UP 8.5 POINTS.

FOUR-YEAR RATES ARE UP 7.7 PERCENTAGE POINTS FOR LOW INCOME STUDENTS AND 8.6 PERCENTAGE POINTS FOR UNDERREPRESENTED STUDENTS.

GRADUATION RATES ARE UP 18.4 PERCENTAGE STUDENTS AND 19.7 POINTS FOR LOW INCOME.

AND OUR FOUR YEAR INSTITUTIONS, OVERALL GRADUATION RATES ARE UP 10.3 PERCENTAGE POINTS.

URM IS UP MORE 12.4 UNDERREPRESENTED MINORITY STUDENTS ARE UP 12.4 PERCENTAGE POINTS.

I WOULDN'T SAY THAT ALL THAT EVEN THE SUCCESSES I TALKED ABOUT ARE ALL ATTRIBUTED TO THE DEI POLICIES BUT I CERTAINLY THINK THEY WOULD HELP AND THEY TAR DEATH THOSE POPULATIONS TO HELP THEM BE MORE SUCCESSFUL.

>> Renee: WHEN YOU SAID THERE IS A BROAD DEFINITION FOR DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION WHO ARE THE GROUNDS AND HOW BROAD IS THAT GIVE US SPECIFICS?

>> THE DEFINITION WE'VE HAD OF DIVERSITY IS PEOPLE WITH VARIED HUMAN CHARACTERISTICS, IDEAS, WORLD VIEWS AND BACKGROUNDS.

DIVERSITY IN CONCEPT EXPECTS THE CREATION BY INSTITUTIONS OF A SAFE AND SUPPORTIVE ENVIRONMENT THAT HONORS AND RESPECTS THE DIFFERENCES.

WE DON'T CALL OUT THE DIFFERENCES WE DEFINE IT BROADLY.

WE LOOK AT LOW INCOME STUDENTS AND SET TARGETS THERE FOR OUR INSTITUTIONS FOR UNDERREPRESENTED MINORITY STUDENTS BECAUSE THERE ARE ACHIEVEMENT GAPS WITH THOSE POPULATIONS AND I MEAN THE GAP BETWEEN THE SUCCESS RATE OF THOSE STUDENTS AND THE GAP RATE OF OVERALL STUDENTS.

SO WE'RE TRYING TO CLOSE THOSE GAPS.

BUT WE DEFINE DIVERSITY TALKING ABOUT CAMPUS DIVERSITY AND THE EDUCATIONAL BENEFITS OF DIVERSITY FROM A DIVERSE STUDENT BODY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LGBTQ STUDENTS, RELIGIOUS DIVERSITY, GEOGRAPHIC DIVERSITY ALL THE THINGS MAKE US WHO WE ARE WHICH MAKES A MORE INTERESTING AND INVITING STUDENT BODY AND ONE WHERE EVERYBODY CAN LEARN FROM EACH OTHER.

>> Renee: ARE KENTUCKY UNIVERSITIES ASKING FACULTY OR CURRENT FACULTY AND STAFF AND STUDENTS TO EXPRESSLY GIVE THEIR CONSENT TO AGREE WITH AND ABIDE BY A SET OF IDEOLOGICAL POINTS WHETHER THEY BE POLITICAL, SOCIAL OR WHATEVER?

PARTICULARLY UPON A CONDITION OF EMPLOYMENT?

>> NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.

I'M NOT AWARE OF ALL THE EMPLOYMENT PRACTICES FOR ALL THE DISCIPLINES AND ALL THE CAMPUSES BOTH FACULTY AND STAFF.

IT IS NOT MANDATED ANY POLICY LEVEL AT CPE AND NO OVERALL POLICY AT ANY INSTITUTION THAT I'M AWARE OF OUR ACCEPTANCE RATE AT MOST OF OUR UNIVERSITIES ARE IN THE 90% WE ARE LETTING ALL STUDENTS THAT ARE QUALIFIED TO COME TO OUR INSTITUTIONS.

I AM NOT AWARE OF ANY.

IT DOESN'T MEAN IT HASN'T HAPPEN AND I KNOW IT IS NOT A SYSTEMIC THING THAT WE'RE MANDATING.

>> Renee: WE WANT TO INVITE YOU AS WE DO EVERY MONDAY NIGHT TO SEND US YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS BY SEND US YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS BY X — FORMERLY TWITTER -- AT K-Y TONIGHT K-E-T.

SEND AN EMAIL TO K-Y TONIGHT AT K-E-T DOT O-R-G. OR USE THE WEB FORM AT K-E-T DOT O-R-G SLASH K-Y TONIGHT.

OR YOU CAN CALL 1-800-494-7605.

WELCOME TO OUR GUESTS.

LET ME GO TO THIS SIDE I KNOW YOU ARE READY.

I DO WANT TO ASK YOU, Mr. NELSON ABOUT WHAT YOU HEARD REPRESENTATIVE DECKER SAY AND WE WILL GET INTO ANOTHER BILL, SENATE BILL 6 PROPOSED BY THE WHIP MIKE WILSON IN JUST A MOMENT.

TELL US YOUR PERSPECTIVE ABOUT THE BILL HOUSE BILL 9 AS REPRESENTATIVE DECKER EXPLAINED IT.

>> WE SHOULD START FROM A POINT WHAT IS BEHIND DEI.

I THINK THERE WAS A LOT OF GOODWILL BEHIND IT.

THE GOAL WAS TO FIGHT RACISM, BIGOTRY AND MAKE HIGHER-ED WELCOMING TO ALL.

TO BREAKDOWN SOME OF THE BARRIERS.

I THINK THE ISSUE AT POINT THAT REPRESENTATIVE DECKER WAS TRYING TO SHARE PREVIOUSLY WAS THAT IT'S THE EQUITY PART AND THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EQUITY AND EQUALITY.

EQUALITY AS WE UNDERSTAND IT IN THIS COUNTRY WE HAVE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY BEFORE THE LAW.

WE ARE A COUNTRY UNDER LAW THE RULE OF LAW.

EQUITY ON THE OTHER HAND IS EQUAL OUTCOMES AFTER THE LAWS IS APPLIED.

AND I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING MANY OTHER STATES IN PARTICULAR, WHERE WE SEE DEI POLICIES AND PROCEDURES OR MANDATES THAT ARE COMING DOWN PARTICULARLY ON CONSERVATIVES, POLITICAL CONDITION ACTIVES AND RELIGIOUS CONSERVATIVES WHERE THEY ARE PUTTING THEIR FINGER ON THE SCALE AND THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY SAYING YOUR VIEWS ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE HERE.

I DID GET AN E-MAIL FROM A PROFESSOR AT UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY WHO SHARED WITH ME HIS EXPERIENCE WITH DEI PROGRAMS HE DID NOT WANT HIS NAME TO BE MENTIONED HE DID NOT WANT HIS DEPARTMENT TO BE REFERRED TO.

HE IS AFRAID TO TALK ABOUT IT.

BEHIND THE SCENES CONVERSATIONS THAT HE'S HAD WITH COLLEAGUES, JUST BRINGING UP SOME REASONABLE CONCERNS, HE'S GOTTEN PUSHBACK.

HE IS AFRAID FOR HIS JOB JUST TO SHARE HIS PERSPECTIVE ON THIS.

JUST TO SHARE CONCERNS THAT HE HAS.

THAT TELLS ME AND I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS I WASN'T IN ON THE CONVERSATIONS BUT IT TELLS ME AT LEAST IN THAT SITUATION, THERE IS A CLIMATE THAT IS NOT FAVORABLE TO ANOTHER VIEW JUST QUESTIONING SOME OF THE DEI PRINCIPLES AND I SAY ANY POLICY ESPECIALLY THE THE UNIVERSITY LEVEL THAT WOULD STIFLE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, FREEDOM OF THOUGHT, THAT WOULD HAMPER DISCUSSION, WE NEED TO LOOK AT THOSE POLICIES.

I DON'T HAVE ALL THE EXAMPLES AND TRAVIS DOESN'T EITHER, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU ON THE PROGRAM.

I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE WE HAVE EXAMPLES FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHERE YOU HAVE PROFESSORS, YOU HAVE STUDENT GROUPS, YOU HAVE OTHER PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN AFFECTED NEGATIVELY BY DEI POLICIES THAT IS WHY REPRESENTATIVE DECKER INTRODUCED HER BILL AND MIKE WILSON INTRODUCED HIS BILL IN THE SENATE TRYING TO PUSHBACK AGAINST THAT.

WE ALL BENEFIT ONE THING WE CAN AGREE ON IS WHEN THERE IS FREEDOM TO DISCOURSE ON THE PUBLIC CAMPUS, WHEN THERE'S VIEWPOINT DIVERSITY, WHEN WE CAN FREELY ENGAGE IN THE CONVERSATIONS THAT BENEFITS EVERY SINGLE PERSON ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

AND THAT'S THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR AND WHEN THERE IS A POLICY IN PLACE THAT WOULD UNDERMINE THAT THAT IS WHY WE ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION.

>> Renee: REPRESENTATIVE, ARE WE UNDERMINING THAT TYPE OF ACADEMIC FREEDOM AND EXPRESSION WITH DEI POLICIES CURRENTLY IN PLACE.

>> I WANT TO GO BACK AND RESPOND TO A COUPLE OF THINGS IF I COULD.

THE FIRST ONE IS TO REP DECKER CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION.

SO JUST BY HAVING DATE THAT CORRESPONDS WITH CERTAIN YEARS DOESN'T MEAN THAT DEI CAUSED AN INCREASE OR A DECREASE.

I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SHARE A DIFFERENT UNDERSTANDING OF EQUITY THAN Mr. NELSON.

EQUITY IS AN EFFORT TO ENSURE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY NOT EQUAL RESULTS IN EDUCATION I AM A TEACHER AND EDUCATION THERE IS A GRAPHIC THAT COMES OUT.

AND EQUALITY IS ALL THE THREE CHILDREN STANDING THE A FENCE LOOKING OVER THE FENCE.

ONE IS A TALL CHILD, ONE IS A SHORT CHILD THEY ARE ALL STANDING ON THE GROUND AND THE SHORT PEOPLE CAN'T SEE OVER THE PHELPS.

EQUITY IS GIVING EACH OF THEM A CUBE SO THEY CAN ALL SEE OVER THE FENCE ADEQUATELY.

SO YOU KNOW, GIVING FINANCIAL AID FOR LOW-INCOME FAMILIES MIGHT BE AN EXAMPLE OF EQUITY.

MY DAUGHTER BY THE TIME SHE GOT TO HIGH SCHOOL, WE HAVE SIBLINGS AND SHE HAD BEEN TO EUROPE THREE TIMES.

THAT IS AN OPPORTUNITY THAT OTHER CHILDREN HAVEN'T HAD.

OTHER CHILDREN MAY NEED AN OPPORTUNITY OR COLLEGE STUDENTS TO LEARN A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT SOCIETY AND HAVE EXTRA SUPPORT.

SO I DON'T SEE EQUITY AS BEING AN INTENTION TO GIVE EQUAL RESULTS.

I THINK IT IS HAVING THE ACCOMMODATIONS AND SUPPORTS IN LINE SO THAT PEOPLE HAVE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY.

>> Renee: PROFESSOR WALKER WELCOME.

I THINK YOU MAYBE TRAVIS HAS BEEN ON BEFORE IF I DENT'S WELCOME YOU I SHOULD HAVE.

AS A NEW MEMBER THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

I WANT YOU TO PICK UP AND YOU CAN COMMENT ON WHAT YOU HEARD REPRESENTATIVE DECKER DESCRIBE TO US AND REPRESENTATIVE TINA BOJANOWSKI'S QUETD OF OUTCOMES VERSUS EQUITY OF OPPORTUNITY AND HOW YOU VIEW THIS DISCUSSION AROUND DEI.

>> I THINK EVERYONE SITTING UP HERE WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME PAGE THAT WE WANT TO CELEBRATE HUMAN DIVERSITY.

I AMANY A CHRISTIAN.

I BELIEVE EVERY HUMAN PERSON IS MADE IN GOD'S IMAGE THEY ARE THE BARRIER OF PROFOUND WORTH AND DIGNITY.

I THINK THAT IS THE BEST STARTING PLACE TO THINK IN THIS DISCUSSION.

THE IDEA THAT IF WE ARE EQUAL IN THE EYES OF GOD WE SHOULD ALSO BE EQUAL IN THE EYES OF THE LAW AS WELL.

AND IN ALL OF THESE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE'RE HEARING ABOUT DEI, THEY ARE LOFT IDEALS THAT IN SOME RESPECTS A THE OF US COULD GET AROUND.

BUT IN PRACTICE, DEI IS SOMETHING THAT IS FAR MORE NEFARIOUS IT IS A TROJAN HORSE FOR VERY PROGRESSIVE IDEOLOGY.

WHENEVER THE TERM DEI IS BROUGHT INTO THE CONVERSATION IT IS BASICALLY A CODE WORD FOR PROGRESSIVE IDEOLOGY AND IF YOU DARE DISSENT FROM IT IT'S GOING TO HAVE A NEGATIVE REPERCUSSION ON YOU.

I THINK ESPECIALLY WHEN WE SAW THE UNIVERSITY PRESIDENTS WHO GOT CALLED BEFORE CONGRESS IN THEIR INABILITY TO DENOUNCE GENOCIDAL LANGUAGE ON THE CAMPUS OF THESE ELITE IVY LEAGUE INSTITUTIONS.

WHY WERE THEY UNABLE TO DENOUNCE GENOCIDAL LANGUAGE?

IT WAS BECAUSE DEI STYLE POLICIES HAVE DESIGNATED JEWISH INDIVIDUALS AS AN OPPRESSOR CLASS AND EVERYONE WHO IS NOT, A PART OF THE OPPRESSED CLASS.

AND SO THIS GOES TO SHOW YOU THE IMBALANCES, THE RELATIVISM THAT GOES INTO THIS DISCUSSION AROUND DEI.

A STUDENT AT U OF L TODAY COULD MAKE A STATEMENT DEROGATORY TOWARDS A JEWISH STUDENT AND FEEL VERY LITTLE NEGATIVE REPERCUSSION.

BUT IF YOU HAVE EVANGELICAL CAL STUDENT DARE TO OFFER THE WORDS THAT MARRIAGE IS THE UNION OF ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN THERE WOULD BE A BIASED RESPONSE TEAM AND SOME TYPE OF INTIMIDATION TACTICS SPOKEN OR UNSPOKEN MAKING SURE THAT THAT STUDENT IS NOT GIVING OPPORTUNITIES BECAUSE THEY ARE DISSENTING FROM PROGRESSIVE IDEOLOGY.

AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MAKEUP OF THESE DEPARTMENTS THEY ARE UNIFORMLY HOUSED AND STAFFED BY PROGRESSIVE IDENTIFY LOGS THAT IS A FACT.

YOU DO NOT SEE DEI OFFICES BEING PROPONENTS OF DIVERSITY.

YOU SEE THEM BEING PROPONENTS OF COERCION, OF INTIMIDATION AND OF SILENCE.

AND THE BILLS THAT REPRESENTATIVE DECKER, SENATOR WILSON HAVE PUT FORWARD ARE MERELY TRYING TO BRING A BALANCE TO THE EXCESS OF THESE DEPARTMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN RUNNING AMOCK FOR A GENERATION IT SEEMS NOW ALL OVER KENTUCKY AND ALL OVER THE NATION.

>> Renee: I WANT YOU TO RESPOND TO THAT Mr. POWELL ARE THEY RUNNING AMOK WITH PREROGATIVE LIBERAL IDEOLOGY?

>> I DON'T KNOW THE POLITICAL MAKEUP OF THE INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF THOSE OFFICES BUT I CAN TELL YOU LET ME TALK ABOUT OUR INVOLVEMENT IN DEI AND RICHARD YOU KNOW THIS BEING ON OUR BOARD FOR SEVERAL YEARS WE TALKED ABOUT IT AND I MENTIONED HOW BROADLY WE DEFINE IT.

CPE IS CHARGED WITH APPROVING ACADEMIC PROGRAMS THE INSTITUTIONS BUT WE ARE TO POSTPONE THE APPROVAL OF NEW PROGRAMS UNLESS PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS MEET THEIR EQUAL EDUCATION OPPORTUNITY GOALS.

WE OFFER OUR DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION POLICY.

PTD WE DEFINE DIVERSITY BROADLY, EQUITY IN THE SAME WAY THAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED WITH THE CREATION OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR HISTORICALLY UNDERREPRESENTED POPULATIONS TO HAVE EQUAL ACCESS AND PARTICIPATE IN EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS.

SO WE DEFINE THIS IN AN OPEN AND HONEST WAY.

AND IT IS NOT ABOUT ANY -- WE MAKE INSTITUTIONS PUT TOGETHER A DIVERSITY PLAN TO LOOK AT STUDENT SUCCESS AND ENROLLMENT AND LOOK AT CAMPUS CLIMATE.

SO NONE OF THAT AND ANYTHING WE HAVE IN OUR POLICY THAT WE MANDATE WOULD REQUIRE ANY IDEOLOGY, REQUIRE THAT THOSE BE STAFFED BY ANYBODY THAT HAD A PROGRESSIVE IDEOLOGY.

REALLY AND TRULY, AT LEAST FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE THOSE DEI OFFICES ARE SETUP TO HELP STUDENTS BE MORE SUCCESSFUL, FEEL MORE INCLUDED ON CAMPUSES.

COULD WE BROADEN OUR FOCUS?

PROBABLY SO.

AND WE COULD CERTAINLY TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

AND REALLY MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ADHERING TO OUR POLICY AND MAKING SURE WE'RE TAKING THAT VIEW OF A BROADVIEW OF DIVERSITY BUT ALL STUDENTS CAN BE SUCCESSFUL AND THEMSELVES.

THAT IS THE GOAL.

CPE AND WHAT WE TALK TO OUR CAMPUSES ABOUT.

WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT THE STRATEGIES WHICH THEY HAVE TO TELL US EVERY YEAR, TO DO DEI EVERY YEAR ON THEIR CAMPUSES AND THEY ARE HAVING TO TELL US HOW EFFECTIVE THEY WERE AND AFTER THAT ANALYSIS DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO CONTINUE THEM.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POLICIES THEY DO NOT INCLUDE THE IDEOLOGICAL THINGS.

>> Renee: Mr. POWELL WHO COULD BE AT RISK IF DEI OFFICES ARE ELIMINATED?

>> I THINK IT DEPENDS.

A LOT OF THIS AND OF COURSE, AS PART OF MY ROLE AS A LAWYER I LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE OF BILLS AND PART IS DEFINING HOW DO YOU DEFINE DEI OR DIVISIVE CONCEPTS, WE HAVE USED DEI AND I WOULD AGREE THEY HAVE BEEN USED AS A NEGATIVE TERM IN MANY WAYS AND MEANT SOMETHING IN THE MINDS OF A LOT OF PEOPLE PARTICULARLY ON A NATIONAL SCALE.

I TOLD YOU HOW WE DEFINE IT AND I WOULD GUESS YOU WOULD AGREE THAT IS A GOOD, BROAD DEFINITION.

BUT WHAT IS DEI?

WHAT IS IT TO US?

AND SO IF YOU GET RID OF WHAT WE CALL DEI, I WOULD BE VERY AFRAID THAT STUDENTS WOULD NOT GET THE SUPPORTS THEY NEED TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE THAT SYSTEMIC PROCESS AT ALL OUR CAMPUSES TO HELP STUDENTS THAT WE KNOW OFTENTIMES BASED ON RACE AND BASED ON SEX, BASED ON GEOGRAPHIC WHERE FOLKS ARE FROM, LOW INCOME STATUS TO TARGET THOSE INDIVIDUALS AND HELP THEM GET THE SUPPORTS THEY NEED.

MAYBE THE WAY THE DEI IS DEFINED IN A BILL DOES NOT IMPACT THAT.

BUT IT SURE SOUNDS LIKE IT WOULD.

AND THEN I WOULD HATE TO GET INTO A SITUATION WHERE THE DEFINITION WAS DIFFERENT AND WE STILL HAD A DEI OFFICE AND BEING ACCUSED OF CONTINUING TO DO WHAT IS OUTLAWED IN LEGISLATION, NO WE'RE NOT BECAUSE IT'S NOT DEFINED THAT WAY AND WE GET ACCUSED OF IT.

AND IF THERE'S LANGUAGE IN THE BILL THAT WOULD ALLOW LAWSUITS TO BE FILED THEN WE'RE DEFENDING LAWSUITS.

AND IF WE WIN THOSE ON OUR CAMPUSES PAY THOSE ATTORNEYS FEES TO DO THAT.

THAT IS PROBLEMATIC THING.

BUT TO ANSWER YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION IF DEI IS OUTLAWED IT WOULD BE DETRIMENTAL TO OUR STUDENT BODY.

>> SO THIS IS DEFINITELY A NATIONAL INITIATIVE.

THERE ARE CURRENTLY 59 ANTI-DEI BILLS IN 25 DIFFERENT STATES.

AND ALL STEMMING FROM THE JANUARY 2023 REPORT BY THE MANHATTAN INSTITUTE AND GOLDWATER INSTITUTE, CONCERNS THAT CONSERVATIVE VIEWPOINTS ARE BEING STIFLED.

SO IF THAT'S HAPPENING WHY ARE WE THROWING THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER?

WHY ARE WE CANCELS EVERYTHING DEI SOMETHING FRAMED THAT IS ANTIWHITE, ANTIMALE, DISCRIMINATING AGAINST WHITE MALES.

AND TAKING AWAY PROGRAMS.

CAN WE NOT DO WOMEN IN ENGINEERING ANYMORE?

THAT WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED BY THIS PROGRAM.

CAN WE NOT HAVE COURSES ON OPPRESSION IN HORRIFIC SITUATIONS FOR WOMEN IN OTHER COUNTRIES AS I READ THE LEGISLATION, REGARDING COURSE WORK, YOU COULDN'T HAVE AS TRUTH THAT WOMEN ARE OPPRESSED IN AFGHANISTAN.

SO CHRISTOPHER'S GOAL WAS TO UNDO DECADES OF LIBERAL IDEOLOGICAL DOMINANCE IN THE ACADEMY.

ALL RIGHT.

SO IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHY DON'T WE WORK ON MORE EQUITABLE CONVERSATIONS, A SURVEY IS MENTIONED IN THIS BILL.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GREAT THING.

LET'S FIND OUT WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING BEFORE WE CANCEL PROGRAMS.

OUR AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDENTS ARE GOING TO FEEL LIKE WE DON'T CARE FOR THEM.

THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO SUPPORT YOU AS A GROUP BECAUSE IT WOULD BE NOW ILLEGAL TO CALL OUT A SPECIFIC GROUP OF PEOPLE FOR SUPPORT.

IF WE HAVE STUDENTS WHO WE KNOW STRUGGLE WHEN THEY GET TO COLLEGE, MAYBE IT'S AFRICAN-AMERICAN MALES ARE WE GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO BRING THEM IN A WEEK EARLY FOR AN EXTRA PROGRAM TO TRY TO BENEFIT THEIR IMPROVE THEIR SUCCESS?

CONSERVATIVE PRAUD BANDS ON DEI ATTACK THE FREE SPEECH RIGHTS OF STUDENTS, FACULTY AND ADMINISTRATORS WHO MIGHT WANT TO ENGAGE IN CONVERSATIONS ABOUT IDENTITY OR RACE.

AND MY UNDERSTANDING OF THIS BILL IS THAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL.

>> Renee: YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE BILL WOULD THAT BE ILLEGAL?

>> IT IS NOT.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SOMEBODY GETTING IN FRONT OF A GROUP AND THEY START DOWNGRADING THE UNITED STATES AS BEING INHERENTLY RACIST, THE CASE IN DIVERSITY TRAINING IN A FLORIDA SCHOOL.

FLORIDA BANNED DEI INITIATIVES.

YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S CONTEXT INTENT OF WHOEVER IS PRESENTING.

I THINK THAT ONE OF THE GREATEST DEI PROGRAMS WE HAVE IS OUR FOUNDING DOCUMENTS THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE AND THE CONSTITUTION WHICH ANDREW ELUDED WE'RE MADE IN THE IMAGE OF GOD.

AND THAT IS PART OF THE -- >> WE ARE CREATED.

THAT WAS A PROMISE THAT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS DID NOT FULFILL ON.

THE CONSTITUTION MADE PROVISIONS INSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONINGS TO RECTIFY THE WRONGS THAT WERE COMMITTED AGAINST THE BLACK POPULATION FOR SO LONG.

ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT THIS COUNTRY WE TALK ABOUT DIVERSITY WE ARE THE GREATEST MELTING POT IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

PEOPLE FROM ALL NATIONS AND ETHNICITIES COME HERE AND WE DO A GOOD JOB.

WE HAVE WARTS AND BLEMISHES WE'VE MADE MISTAKES BUT WE'RE WORKED TOGETHER AS A PEOPLE TO RECTIFY THE STATES BECAUSE THE CONSTITUTION ALLOWED US.

JIM CROW, BUT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO RECTIFY IT.

BECAUSE WE HAVE FIRST AMENDMENT FREEDOMS THAT HAVE GIVEN US THE DISCOURSE WE ARE ENJOYING RIGHT NOW.

FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY.

FREEDOM TO PETITION OUR GOVERNMENT.

WE HAVE USED THE FREEDOMS WE HAVE TO FIX THE WRONGS.

AND I THINK THE MAJOR PROBLEM WITH DEI IS AGAIN GOING BACK TO THE E, THE EQUITY PART.

AND WE DO DISAGREE REPRESENTATIVE ON HOW THAT IS INTERPRETED.

>> Renee: I WANT TO GET TO THAT POINT.

PROFESSOR WALKER CHIME IN QUICK.

>> I WANT TO AGREE WITH REPRESENTATIVE TINA BOJANOWSKI CONTINUE WE HAD A DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE CREATED WITH CERTAIN INALIENABLE RIGHTS BUT IT WAS THE SAME DECLARATION THE CONSTITUTION THAT ENABLED US TO HAVE A PROCESS TO RECTIFY THOSE WRONGS WHICH WE DID IN THE 14TH AMENDMENT WHICH GIVES US EQUALITY UNDER THE LAW, DUE PROCESS WHICH IS VERY RELEVANT TO THIS DISCUSSION BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT HAS WEIGHED IN ON THIS DISCUSSION RELATED TO DEI IN THE FORM OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND SAYING THAT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

BECAUSE WHAT IS DEI?

IT HAS THESE LOFT IDEALS IT SOUNDS IN PRINCIPLE HARD TO DISAGREE WITH.

BUT THEN HOW DOES THAT CASH OUT PRACTICALLY?

IT CASHES OUT IN REVERSE RACISM AND REVERSE SEXISM.

EVERYPLACE DEI HAS TAKEN ROOT THESE TYPES OF DIVISIONS HAVE BEEN EXACERBATED.

IT HAS DONE THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY HAVE TRIED TO DO IN THE NAME OF DIVERSITY, EQUITY, INCLUSION WHICH CONSERVATIVES HAVE TAKEN RIGHTFULLY AND RECOINED AS DIVISION, EXCLUSION AND INDOCTRINATION.

>> SO Mr. NELSON DISCUSSED FLORIDA.

SO FLORIDA PASSED A BILL AND LET ME READ A QUOTE FROM A FLORIDA FACULTY ADVISER TO THE FEDERALIST SOCIETY LAW SCHOOL REPUBLICANS AND CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY.

HE SAID ABOUT THE DEI BILL, BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING.

HE'S TAKING NAMES.

IF I AM ON THE WOKE LIST, IF THEY FIND ME THREATENING, THE REST OF YOU ARE DEAD IN THE WATER.

BEWARERY AND BE AWARE.

IF I DON'T HAVE ACADEMIC FREEDOM NEITHER DO YOU.

IF YOU DON'T, NEITHER DO I.

A CORNERSTONE OF OUR DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY IS THE SURVIVAL OF INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION.

FREE FROM POLITICAL INTERFERENCE AND IDEOLOGICAL AGENDA OF OUGHT CONTRACTS.

WE NEED TO PROTECT ACADEMIC FREEDOM.

WE NEED TO PROTECT FROM CENSORSHIP AND I THINK THAT THIS BILL WOULD IMPACT BOTH OF THOSE THINGS.

>> Renee: LET'S TALK A MATTER OF PRACTICALITY Mr. NELSON YOU MENTIONED THE E BEING THE MOST SUBVERSIVE TO MANY ON YOUR SIDE OF THIS CONVERSATION.

INSTEAD OF PERHAPS THE SUPPOSE, INSTEAD OF DISMANTLING DEI OFFICES YOU RENAME THEM AND IT HAS HAPPENED.

THE UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH CAROLINA CHANGED ITS OFFICE OF DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION TO THE DIVISION OF ACCESS, CIVIL RIGHTS AND COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT.

IN TENNESSEE, THE DIVISION OF DIVERSITY BECAME THE DIVERSITY SHIFTING THE LANGUAGE WITHOUT UPENDING THE MISSION AND PURPOSES FROM AN ADMINISTRATIVE STANDPOINT WOULD THAT SUFFICE?

YOU CHANGE THE NAME BUT PERHAPS THE FUNCTIONS WOULD STILL APPLY?

>> ITH I THAT UNIVERSITIES SHOULD BE WELCOMING AND OPEN TO ALL THAT WANT TO ATTEND.

I THINK THEY SHOULD ALSO BE WELCOMING TO DIVERSE VIEWPOINTS FROM FACULTY AND PROFESSORS WHICH THAT IS A BIG ISSUE, BY THE WAY, WHETHER IT'S OKAY FOR CONSERVATIVES TO FIND TENURE GET TENURE IN KENTUCKY OR ANY COLLEGES OR UNIVERSITIES.

THAT IS AN ISSUE.

BUT WE CAN CHANGE THE NAMES.

I THINK IN PRINCIPLE AND I WILL SPEAK TO THAT THAT WE SHOULD WELCOME ALL.

AND WE SHOULD LOWER BARRIERS.

BUT WHEN YOU SINGLE OUT RACES AND ETHNICITIES WHEN YOU PUT YOUR THUMB ON THE SCALE THAT IS WHERE THERE IS AN ISSUE AND WHAT WE'RE DEBATING HERE TONIGHT.

>> Renee: TO THE POINT THAT THE REPRESENTATIVE RAISED WHAT THIS COULD MEAN FOR STUDENT ORIENTEDDED CLUBS AND SPACES TO SUPPORT STUDENTS WHO ARE MARGINALIZED, LGBTQ CLUBS OR THE BLACK STUDIES OR BLACK UNION, IF THIS BILL COULD IT -- LET ME ASK YOU FIRST, TRAVIS POWELL COULD THIS MEASURE IMPERIL THOSE TYPES OF EFFORTS?

AND STUDENT BASED GROUPS FROM ORGANIZING?

>> I THINK IF THE STUDENTS IF IT ROSE UP FROM THE STUDENTS AND WAS NOT PART OF THE ADMINISTRATION IT WAS SOMETHING THAT THE STUDENTS DID ON THEIR OWN I THINK IT WOULD BE FINE.

THE ISSUE WOULD COME IN THE WAY THAT THE DISCRIMINATORY CONCEPTS AND DIFFERENTIAL TREATMENT SO TO THE EXTENT THAT INSTITUTIONS TO YOUR EXAMPLE, HAD BLACK MALE STUDENTS COME IN A WEEK EARLY BECAUSE THEY FOUND IN A CERTAIN PROGRAM THAT THEY WERE BEING LESS SUCCESSFUL THAN THE OVERALL POPULATION COME IN A WEEK EARLY AND GET ACCLIMATED TO COLLEGE AND GET A FEELING OF THE ENVIRONMENT SO THEY WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE WHEN SCHOOL STARTS.

THAT'S TREATING THEM DIFFERENTLY.

SO I MEAN, IS THAT A PREFERENCE?

IS THAT UNCONSTITUTIONAL?

DISCRIMINATION?

I DON'T THINK SO.

BUT IT IS TREATING SOMEBODY DIFFERENTLY BASED ON THEIR RACE.

SAME THING WITH THE EXAMPLE WOMEN IN ENGINEERING THAT IS TREATING SOMEONE DIFFERENTLY GIVING THEM AN OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE OF THEIR SEX.

SO I DO THINK AS IT'S WRITTEN IT WOULD PROHIBIT THAT AND THAT IS A BIG TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX FOR US TO HELP AS WE DEFINE DEI AND WE'VE CHANGED THE NAME, CHANGE TO DO TO THE ACCESS, ENGAGEMENT AND BELONGING FOR THE REASON YOU ARE SAYING BECAUSE IT'S GOTTEN THIS CONNOTATION AND THE LETTERS PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT STANDS FOR HAVE STARTED TO DIVIDE FOLKS AND WE DON'T WANT THAT.

WE WANT TO BE MORE INCLUSIVE.

WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF REVISING OUR DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION POLICY AND WE'RE CONTINUING TO EVALUATE AND LOOKING AT WAYS TO EXPAND OUR DEFINITION AND LOOK AT DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE STUDENT POPULATION FOR DIVERSITY.

LOOKING AT FIRST GENERATION STUDENTS.

REGIONAL DIVERSITY.

ADULT STUDENTS.

VETERANS THAT SORT OF THING.

AND THIS IS TOO SOMETHING THAT WE GET THAT DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION FROM STUDENTS.

TRYING TO BROADEN OUR PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE AGAIN IF THE TERM DEI DIVIDES FOLKS AND NOT INCLUDE THE FOLKS AS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, MORE CONSERVATIVE PERSPECTIVE LET'S CHANGE THE NAME AND CALL IT SOMETHING ELSE BECAUSE THAT IS THE LAST THING WE WANT TO DO.

>> Renee: WE TALK ABOUT REPRESENTATIVE JENIFER DECKER'S BILL AND ANOTHER BILL IN THE SENATE IT IS DIFFERENT TRANSPLANT DOES NOT CALL FOR DOING AWAY WITH DEI OFFICES AND WHEN I TALK TO MIKE WILSON WHO IS THE REPUBLICAN FROM BOWLING GREEN AND THE SENATE MAJORITY WHIP HE SA SAID THAT IS NOT THE GOAL BUT HE DOES VIEW DEI AS DISCRIMINATION.

HIS IS PART OF OUR CONVERSATION FROM A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.

SENATOR WILSON IT IS A PLEASURE THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU, RENEE IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU.

>> .

LET'S TALK ABOUT SENATE BILL 6 THIS IS LABELED AS THE ANTI-DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION MEASURE.

WHAT DOES IT SEEK TO DO AND THE POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION SPACE?

>> WELL, I DON'T THINK IT'S ANTI-DEI MEASURE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T DO AWAY WITH DEI OFFICES OR TRAINING.

WHAT IT DOES IT ACTUALLY PROHIBITS ABOUT 16 THINGS THAT HOPEFULLY YOU'VE READ THOSE AND UNDERSTAND.

BECAUSE EVERYBODY I TALK TO LOOK AT THEM AND SAID WELL WHO COULD BE AGAINST THOSE.

AND YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO ACTUALLY DISCRIMINATE AGAINST SOMEONE BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE, SEX, GENDER OR THOSE THINGS.

AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN DEI ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND EVEN AS I'VE HAD PEOPLE TALK TO ME THAT ARE HERE IN KENTUCKY, THAT STUDENTS ARE EXPERIENCING THAT, HAVING TO TAKE THE TRAINING AND ASCRIBE TO A LITMUS TEST OF A POLITICAL IDEOLOGY THAT GOES BEYOND WHAT OUR FEDERAL, STATE LAWS ARE IN REGARDS TO RACISM AND ANTIDISCRIMINATION MEASURES WHICH I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO BE DOING THAT.

>> Renee: THERE ARE SOME SUBSTANTIATED CASES OF STUDENTS FACING THAT.

IS THAT ALSO COMING FROM SOME OF THE UNIVERSITY PERSONNEL?

ARE YOU HEARING THAT AS WELL?

HAS THAT BEEN SUBSTANTIATED?

I AM.

I'M HEARING THAT FROM UNIVERSITY PERSONNEL AS WELL LOCATED HERE IN KENTUCKY AND THERE ARE DOCUMENTED CASES ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHERE THEY'VE BEEN DENIED PROMOTION, THEY'VE BEEN DENIED HIRING BECAUSE OF THEIR STATEMENTS TO DEI THAT DOES NOT AGREE WITH THE UNIVERSITY.

IN REGARDS TO THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ALL BELIEVE IN DIVERSITY.

WE ALL BELIEVE IN BEING INCLUDED.

WE BELIEVE IN EQUALITY, OPPORTUNITIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO WE'RE NOT TRYING TO GET RID OF DEI BUT WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING IS IN LINE WITH OUR STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS.

AND WE'RE NOT TRYING TO PROHIBIT TEACHING HISTORY OR SLAVERY AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS WE'RE BEING ACCUSED OF THAT.

WE ARE NOT.

AND PROBABLY AN ADDITION TO THE BILL TO STATE THAT THIS BILL DOES NOT PROHIBIT THAT.

>> Renee: THERE IS CONCERN THAT PROGRAMS MEASURES LIKE THESE COULD DISINCENTIVIZE CERTAIN POPULATIONS OF STUDENTS UNDERREPRESENTED MINORITIES, FROM GOING TO KENTUCKY PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES AND THERE BY THAT COULD EXACERBATE THE LABOR SHORTAGES THAT KENTUCKY IS EXPERIENCING.

FROM AN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT, HOW WISE HOW SMART IS THIS LEGISLATION?

>> I DON'T REALLY THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE REALLY FOCUS ON.

LIKE I SAID I THINK OUR FEDERAL LAWS, STATE LAWS THAT WE HAVE THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS WAS DOING A GOOD JOB OF THIS.

I THINK THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN DEVELOPED OVER THE LAST 8 TO 10 YEARS.

AND THAT SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF PEOPLE ADOPTING.

BUT I FOUND THAT THERE ARE COMPANIES NOW THAT ARE GETTING RID OF ALL THEIR DEI BECAUSE THEY SAY IT CREATES SUCH A TOXIC WORK ENVIRONMENT THERE FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES.

AND IT'S JUST NOT BEEN BENEFICIAL FOR THEM.

SO WE SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE DOING AWAY WITH IT.

AND THERE SEEMS TO BE A MOVEMENT TOWARDS THAT BECAUSE OF THAT.

AND I THINK THAT STUDENTS WANT FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT PRESERVES THAT.

YOU KNOW, I KNOW FOR ME, I LIVED 17 YEARS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.

THE CHURCH I WENT TO I WAS A MINORITY.

BECAUSE WE HAD SO MANY DIFFERENT RACIAL DIVERSITY WITHIN OUR CHURCH.

AND IT WAS GREAT.

WE LOVED IT.

I THINK THAT IS WHAT WE ALL WANT.

WE ALL WANT TO SEE AND I JUST DON'T THINK THIS HELPS PROMOTE IT.

>> Renee: TO YOUR POINT ABOUT NOT INC. FRINGING ON ACADEMIC FREEDOM AND THE INTELLECTUAL DISCUSSIONS THAT A PROFESSOR COULD LEAD THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS BILL IS DESIGNED TO DO?

>> NO IT IS NOT.

>> AND THAT WILL BE CLARIFIED FURTHER.

>> WE'RE GOING TO DO A SUBSTITUTE AND MAKE SURE WE ADD THAT IN THERE TO CLARIFY THIS IS SPECIFICALLY THIS BILL DOES NOT DO THIS.

AND DOES NOT PROHIBIT THIS.

>> Renee: WE'RE WAITING BECAUSE THESE BILLS VNTS' GONE THROUGH THE COMMITTEE PROCESS YET.

BUT HE MENTIONED 16 CONCEPTS I WILL NOT GO THROUGH ALL 16 THEY ARE ON THE LEGISLATIVE WEBSITE.

BUT I WILL GIVE YOU A COUPLE SO THAT VIEWERS HAVE AN IDEA WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

JUST THE FIRST COUPLE, ONE RACE OR SEX IS INHERENTLY THIS IS HOW A DIVISIVE CONCEPT IS DEFINED ONE RACE OR SEX IS SUPERIOR OR INTERIOR AN INDIVIDUAL BY VIR USE OF THE RACE IS SEX OF THE OR OPPRESSIVE WHETHER CONSCIOUSLY OR SUBCONSCIOUSLY AND INDIVIDUALS SHOULD RECEIVE ADVERSE TREATMENT BECAUSE OF THE INDIVIDUAL'S RACE OR SEX AND 13 OTHER DEFINED CONCEPTS IN SENATE BILL 6.

YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON THIS BILL, TRAVIS POWELL, ABOUT COMPARE AND CONTRAST THIS NO HOUSE BILL 9.

>> SO I THINK THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE IS THIS REALLY FOCUSES ON THESE DIVISIVE CONCEPTS AS OPPOSED TO DEI.

I MEAN DEI IS NOT IN THE LEGISLATION.

THE TERM DEI IS NOT IN THE SENATE BILL.

WHEREAS IT IS AND TALKS ABOUT OFFICES GETS INTO DETAIL OF THE OPERATIONS OF INSTITUTION AND WHAT THEY CAN AND CAN'T DO.

DEI OFFICES AND OFFICERS A LOT OF INTERPRETATION INVOLVED IN THAT.

AND THE PRACTICAL IMPACTS ON HOW TO APPLY THAT AND IMPLEMENT THAT AND COMPLY WITH STATE LAW COULD BE VERY DIFFICULT.

THIS BILL FOCUSES ON THOSE CONCEPTS THAT YOU LISTED AND THE REST.

AND TALKS ABOUT THOSE IN THE FORM OF TRAINING AND MANDATORY TRAINING FOR INSTITUTIONS AND MAKES IT CLEAR THAT IT IS NOT IMPACTING ANYTHING TAUGHT IN THE CLASSROOM.

IT DOES PROHIBIT INSTITUTIONS FROM PROVIDING AINCENTIVE FOR TEAMING DIVISIVE CONCEPT.

THAT IS NOT THE WAY THAT UNIVERSITIES INCENTIVIZE PROFESSOR TO TEACH ANY CONCEPT NECESSARILY.

IT IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT IT FOCUSES ON THE TRAINING.

IT IS A MUCH SHORTER BILL.

A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO DIGEST.

>> Renee: HAS THE RIGHT TO ACTION BILL.

REPRESENTATIVE DECKER HAS PROVISIONS TO SEEK PUNITIVE DAMAGES AND HIS BILL HE LAYS IT OUT THAT IT DID GO FROM $1,000 TO AS HIGH AS $100,000 PER ACTION.

>> AND THAT IS STILL PROBLEMATIC ANYTIME OUR INSTITUTIONS OUR PUBLIC ENTITIES ANY WAIVER IN OUR SORN ENTITIES AND CAN BE SUED TO THE GNAWED NEWED THIS WOULD OPEN THEM UP TO LIABILITY AND IT IS NOT SO MUCH THAT THEY COULD BE FOLLOWING THE LETTER OF THE LAW ANYBODY CAN FILE A LAWSUIT AGAINST IT THEY HAVE TO DEFEND IT.

INSURANCE COSTS GO UP BECAUSE OF THIS.

BECAUSE THEY ARE NOW OPEN TO MORE LIABILITY.

AND IT BECOMES MORE OF AN ISSUE EVEN IF YOU WIN AND DOING THE RIGHT THING IT CAN BE CAN BE COSTLY TO OUR INSTITUTIONS AND WE FIND THAT PROBLEMATIC.

>> I WANT TO SPEAK ON POINT NUMBER SIX AND THIS HAS BEEN AROUND NATIONALLY THESE DIVISIVE TOPICS.

THAT AN INDIVIDUAL SHOULD FEEL DISCOMFORTED, GUILT OR ANGUISH OR DISTRESS BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE OR SEX.

AND IT MAKES ME THINK ABOUT MY MOTHER'S GERMAN OUR HERITAGE IS GERMAN I HONESTLY DO FEEL GUILT ABOUT THE HORRIFIC THINGS THAT HAPPENED DURING THE HOLOCAUST.

AND I WAS READING HANNAH GRAY, A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO SAID EDUCATION SHOULD NOT BE INTENDED TO MAKE PEOPLE COMFORTABLE, IT SHOULD MAKE THEM THINK.

AND SO I WONDER WHAT KIND OF A CHILLING EFFECT IT COULD BE ON TOPICS THAT ARE PRESENTED IN THE CLASSROOMS, WITH THESE DIVISIVE CONCEPTS THAT YOU MIGHT DO SOMETHING THAT MAKES SOMEONE FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE AND THEY'RE GOING TO SUE YOU, YOUR PROFESSOR YOUR UNIVERSITY.

IT'S CONCERNING TO ME PAUSE THERE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN HISTORY THAT SHOULD MAKE US TEAL UNCOMFORTABLE.

NOT LIKE WE'RE RESPONSIBLE BUT DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, IT SHOULD MAKE ONE FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE THAT THEY WERE FORCED OUT WHERE THEY WERE LIVING AND ALL THOSE THINGS.

SO THAT'S ONE THAT I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT.

>> THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MAKING PEOPLE THINK AND BEING UNCOMFORTABLE WHEN YOU ARE LEARNING LESSONS ABOUT HISTORY AND THEN GUILTING.

YOU ARE GETTING INTO THE CONTEXT THERE.

BUT I THINK THIS IS A REAL ISSUE BECAUSE STUDENTS HAVE BEEN GUILTED.

EMPLOYEES HAVE BEEN INTIMIDATED.

PIANO PEOPLE HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS THERE IS A LOT OF AGREEMENT HERE AS FAR AS ACADEMIC FREEDOM, AS FAR AS HAVING A SAFE ENVIRONMENT WHERE PEOPLE CAN LEARN AND EXCHANGE IDEAS AND HAVE DEBATE.

I THINK WE LOOK AT THE INDIVIDUAL EXAMPLES OF WHERE DEI POLICY HAS BEEN ABUSED AND THAT IS WHY WE ARE AT THIS PLACE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LEGISLATION TO CORRECT THE ABUSE.

>> AND I WOULD ADD TO THAT, ONE OF THE THINGS UNDER REPORT IN OUR NATIONAL MEDIA IS THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS THAT ARE EXITING THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

AT HISTORIC LEVELS.

BECAUSE OUT OF COVID PARENTS WERE MADE AWARE OF WHAT WAS BEING TAUGHT OVER ZOOM AND THEY WERE BEING MADE AWARE OF HOW THE DEI WORLD VIEW WAS ETCHING ITSELF INTO THIS VIEW.

THE REPORTER BARRY WEISS NOT A CONSERVATIVE BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION HAS DONE INCREDIBLE REPORTING ON THIS ALL OVER THE NATION OF STUDENTS BEING DIVIDED NEWSPAPER THEIR CLASSROOMS BY THEIR SKIN COLOR AND BEING GIVEN OBJECT LIST SONS AND BEING AN OPPRESSOR OR THE OPPRESSED.

WE SHOULD ALL AGREE WE SHOULD TEACH OUR HISTORY.

PROPONENTS OF THIS BILL BELIEVE WE SHOULD TEACH OUR HISTORY AND LAMENT OVER OUR HISTORY WHERE WE HAVE GOTTEN IT WRONG.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO REDEEM THE SITUATION BY JUST DOING THIS IN REVERSE.

AND BY PERPETUATING THE NARRATIVES AND REDUCING INDIVIDUALS DOWN TO A GROUP IDENTITY.

WE SHOULD BE PRACTICING ACADEMIC FREEDOM.

IDEOLOGICAL NEUTRALITY.

AND AGAIN THESE DEI BILLS AND THE OFFICES DO NO SUCH THING.

>> Renee: I WANT TO GO TO A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS WE'VE RECEIVED SO FAR THIS EVENING.

AND THIS ONE COMES IN FROM JAMIE FROM SHELBY COUNTY.

REPRESENTATIVE DECKER SAYS SHE PROMOTES THE FREE EXCHANGE OF IDEAS YET SUPPORTS BANNING BOOKS HOUSE BILL 150 OR SENATE BILL 150 DISCRIMINATORY AGAINST GAY AND THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY CAUSING DISTRESS TO PARENTS AND THEIR KIDS.

HOUSE BILL 9 SEEMS TO BE A TAKEAWAY ATTEMPT FROM MARGINALIZED GROUPS.

LOTS OF QUESTIONS HOW MUCH DEI EFFORTS COST HIGHER INSTITUTIONS Mr. TRAVIS POWELL HOW MUCH DOES THAT CONSUME THE XPE BUDGET OR INDIVIDUAL INSTITUTIONS?

>> WE HAVE THREE FULL-TIME INDIVIDUALS THAT WORK IN THAT AREA IN OUR OFFICE.

AND WE HELP COORDINATE THE EFFORTS MAINLY AROUND OUR DEI POLICY AND EVALUATION OF DIVERSITY PROGRESS IN ORDER FOR INSTITUTIONS TO OFFER NEW ACADEMIC PROGRAMS.

AS FAR AS WHAT IS BEING SPENT ON THE CAMPUSES IT'S HARD TO AGGREGATE HOW DO YOU DEFINE A DEI POLICY.

HOW MUCH ARE YOU SPENDING ON DEI?

HOW DO YOU DEFINE IT.

I CAN TELL YOU IF SOMEBODY HAS THEIR NAME AND THEY ARE UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF A DEI OFFICE, WELL I CAN TELL YOU HOW MUCH THAT PERSON MAKES AND IF THEY ARE SPENDING MONEY ON TRAINING.

BUT IF I HAVE A COORDINATOR INNED ENGINEERING I WILL KEEP THAT EXAMPLE THAT HELPS COORDINATE THIS WOMEN'S GROUP THAT COMES IN BEFORE THE SEMESTER STARTS IS THAT DEI DOES THAT COUNT BECAUSE THAT PERSON DOES A LOT OF OTHER THINGS.

WHAT PORTION OF HIS OR HER SALARY WOULD BE DEDICATED TO THAT.

A LOT OF THINGS WE DO, YOU TALKING ABOUT OUR DEFINITION ARE WHAT WEDNESDAY INTO THE FABRIC HELP STUDENTS BE SUCCESSFUL AND SOME OF THE THINGS ARE RACE NEUTRAL.

WE HAVE A LOT OF COMMUNITY COLLEGES HAVE FOOD BANKS TO HELP STUDENTS THAT THE ARE FOOD INSECURE THAT IS ONE OF THE STRATEGIES WE LIST UNDER DEI.

IF YOU ARE ASKING IS THAT A DEI POLICY DO I HAVE TO COUNT HOW MUCH I'M SPENDING ON THE FOOD BANK IT GETS DIFFICULT TO DO.

>> I MEAN KIND OF THIS LEGISLATION WILL HAVE A CHILLING EFFECT ON THE ADMINISTRATION'S EFFORTS TO SUPPORT MINORITIES, WOMEN, LGBTQ STUDENTS, FACULTY ON CAMPUSES.

BUT THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE ARE PROACTIVE EFFORTS AGAINST DISCRIMINATION WOULD BE BANNED WOULD NOT EXIST.

SO I ESPECIALLY HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE ACADEMIC FREEDOM ABOUT RESTRICTIONS ON COURSE CONTENT AND RESTRICTIONS ON WHAT PROFESSOR CAN DISSEMINATE, PUBLISH ET CETERA.

AND I THINK THAT FOR OUR DEMOCRACY THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T IMPACT ACADEMIC FREEDOM.

>> Renee: OF THE TWO BILLS WE'VE DISCUSSED TONIGHT WHICH IS THE LESSER OF THE TWO EVILS IN YOUR VIEW?

>> I WOULD FIND SENATE BILL 6 LESS DANGEROUS THAN HOUSE BILL 9.

>> Renee: AND WHICH WOULD YOU PREFER?

QUICKLY?

>> I THINK BOTH HAVE GOOD POINTS.

ONE POINT ABOUT THE FUNDING ON IT, UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY HAS 103DEI RELATED POSITIONS WHERE THEY SPEND SPENT 10.5 MILLION LAST YEAR SINCE 2011, WE'VE HAD TO DECHRIST CREASE OF 34% OF BLACK STUDENTS ENROLLING IN HIGHER-ED.

WE HAVE TO QUESTION.

>> IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT BLACK STUDENTS.

>> THIS IS ONE PART OF THAT URM UNDERREPRESENTED MINORITY.

BUT WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES IS THIS MONEY BEING WELL SPENT?

IS IT EFFECTIVE AND WE HAVE THE OTHER ISSUES WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

>> Renee: THE BILL YOU PREFER, SENATE BILL 6 OR HOUSE BILL 9.

>> THEY BOTH HAVE GOOD POINTS IN BOTH OF THEM.

>> PROFESSOR 20 SECONDS?

>> YES, I THINK IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LEVEL OF PRINCIPLE, I THINK SENATE BILL 6 IS PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT RESTORES A BALANCE TO OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.

DEI OFFICES ARE SO MESHED IN OUR SYSTEM THEY MIGHT BE HARD TO UNDO ALTHOUGH WE SHOULD UNDO THEM BUT RESTORE GOOD PRINCIPLES.

>> Renee: THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING A PART OF THIS DISCUSSION.

THIS IS WHERE THE HARD CONVERSATIONS ARE HAD RIGHT HERE ON "KENTUCKY TONIGHT" AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR FEEDBACK AS WELL.

JOIN US WEEKNIGHTS AT 6:30 EASTERN FOR KENTUCKY EDITION WHERE WE TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES AND SO MUCH MORE DURING THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

I'M RENEE SHAW AND I WILL SEE YOU SOON.