- Just ahead on Black Issues Forum, diversity and tech leads to healthy competition within the industry, and we're seeing options, new and old, as opportunities for minority professionals.

From event production to careers in software development, we'll explore the options and the education needed to achieve a successful technical career.

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Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[upbeat music] - Welcome to Black Issues Forum.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

From pagers to smartphones, floppy disks to hard-drives, the last 20 years has seen a lot when it comes to tech advancements, and frankly, sometimes it's just hard to keep up.

Joining me today are three guests who have mastered keeping up and ensuring that minority tech lovers and professionals are keeping up too.

So let's welcome to the show Associate Dean of Technology and Innovation at North Carolina Central University, April Dawson, CEO of Tech Factory Productions, Ricardo Hicks, and tech recruiter and our very own recruiter cousin, Chenae Erkerd.

Welcome to the show.

- [All] Thank you.

- Thank you.

So, the latest trends and innovations in technology such as artificial intelligence, blockchain, reality, virtual reality, having varying potential impacts on industry and daily life.

Since the pandemic in particular, many have found ways to use technology as a pivoting tool to provide services and engagement to businesses in need to thrive through a difficult time.

Ricardo, I'll bring you in since you are our resident tech guy here at Tech Factory.

So let's talk about before the pandemic, you know, we saw a lot of people trying to figure out, or during the pandemic, trying to figure out how to re-engage, right?

And so when we think about these services of hybrid learning, hybrid events, and being able to now engage technically, virtually, what kind of work do you guys do to ensure that that was happening during that time?

- So, like I say, we kind of got pushed into this by force... - Yeah.

- ...like anybody else that's continued to do this right now.

And we just really navigated with the client to kind of figure out what their needs were.

I had to call on some experience from previous background in broadcast and ENG work and coupled that with the latest technologies that were being used.

So I had to do a lot of work and researching what was needed from, you know, computers, building computers, platforms that were being used at the current time, and just really figuring out what...

I guess you'd say what the people sitting at home would have to do to raise up to the level to do what we needed to do to execute it for the attendee.

- Yeah.

- So it was a lot of work on that side of it.

- I'm sure.

And a little bit about your company.

What people don't see behind the scenes is that you're an all Black company, or Black-owned company... - Mmm-hmm.

- [Kenia] ...and most of your staff are Black.

- Most, yes.

- Talk about the importance of building that team.

- So I've been very intentional since I've been in my career in event technology in providing opportunities for folks that look like me, not excluding...

I've provided opportunities for many others as well.

But just really changing the landscape.

So when I started my career as a manager, you know, I really started being intentional, and then once I got into sales, having a little bit more leverage there, I wanted to make sure that I continued that.

So once I started Tech Factory, I had a strong base kind of by accident to really continue to build with the technologists as well as the clientele as well.

- Yeah.

Professor Dawson, you are an instructor of tech and innovation.

Talk about the importance of preparing students for the advancements that are coming so that they can be competitive in this space.

- Yes, and before I do, I just wanna mention that Tech Factory has been a provider for North Carolina Central University School of Law.

They are absolutely amazing.

We have a law and technology summit coming up October 13th... - Oh, wow.

- ...and Tech Factory is again doing our audio and video.

So we have been incredibly proud and appreciative of that partnership.

- Absolutely.

- So, at the law school, which is where I teach, we have a Technology Law and Policy center, and we know that technology is disrupting a number of areas, including the law.

And so we have to make sure that our students understand how to leverage technology to be more proficient attorneys, that they understand the implications related to technology impacting society.

So when we think about regulations, when we think about laws, when we think about privacy, when we think about cybersecurity... And so I will say the first thing that we have to do is make sure that, as educators, we have an understanding and a familiarity with the technology... - Yeah.

- ...because you can't teach what you don't understand.

- Right.

Right.

- And the world today is very different than when I was in law school or when I was a practicing attorney.

- So, what does that look like?

How do you stay abreast as an instructor of the content?

- Well, the first thing I do is I make sure that I have that growth mindset that I encourage my students to have.

I have to constantly learn.

There are so many certificate courses that you can take, a lot of great free content.

YouTube University is amazing.

[all chuckling] - Absolutely.

- There are wonderful podcasts.

- Yeah.

- And you just have to make a commitment to just stay on top of it because it's changing so incredibly rapidly.

- [Kenia] Yeah, and we've seen that, especially through the pandemic, right?

Over these years.

So much has changed.

Chenae, we'll bring you in as our recruiter cousin.

When we talk about... Well, how about, first, you tell us a little bit about what you do and how that's unique to the space of tech.

- Yeah, so, I first wanted to be an attorney, so I wanted to start there.

I am not an attorney, but I am a wonderful alumnus of North Carolina Central University School of Law.

And so I pivoted from legal into healthcare, higher education into healthcare, and then into tech.

And so what I do as a technical recruiter is I find technical roles for the company that I work for.

And what I also do is I post tips and tricks based on my experiences as a candidate and based on my experiences in having to pivot from legal into higher education, into healthcare, into tech, and so what that looked like for me and the landscape of that.

So I was a candidate for four years after graduating law school, and so that, kind of like that finding yourself type of moment.

And so what I learned was, when I pivoted into being a recruiter, I started to be the recruiter I needed when I was a candidate.

So I make sure that I provide tips and tricks for my audience, whether that's on LinkedIn or whether that's on forums like this, whether I'm on a podcast speaking or conference or whoever.

And so I make sure that not only they understand what the technical side can do for job seekers, but then to also understand how to prepare for interviews, and just kind of tips and tricks from a recruiter's perspective.

- Yeah, that's great.

And so how do you make ensure that your clients, or the folks that you work with, stay competitive, and how do they leverage their skill sets and ensure that they're up up with what the trends are?

- Yeah, good question.

So I have to do my own research in my own time, right?

- Yes, right.

- So it's important that the companies that we work for, we make sure we understand their technology, but we also make need to make sure we understand other companies' technology as well because there are friendly competitions, friendly competition when it comes to technology.

And so I've come across different startup tech companies and different, what we call influencers on LinkedIn and different social media platforms that, where these co-founders or founders have created different platforms to help job seekers even find roles using, leveraging AI, so on and so forth.

- Yeah.

- So I just make sure that I am up on my research and my understanding even on my own time to understand how I can use technology in my own life.

I'm also married to a tech guru, so... [all chuckling] - Yeah.

- We call him Black IT in our house.

[all laughing] - What I love here at the table is that we have varying elements of tech, right?

And one thing Ricardo and I were talking about this morning was that not everyone sees what you do, and then even when they see it, they don't know if it's tech or not.

- Right.

- And so I'd love for you to talk about what exactly do you guys do and what's the importance of seeing this as tech?

- Right, so that's a great question.

And we are more of the technologists that are in between when we're dealing with events.

So we're dealing with the end user experience of the technology, right, and we're bridging that gap between them and the client.

So we are typically behind the scenes working quietly, and we're really, honestly, not supposed to be noticed unless there's a problem.

So we don't like being noticed.

[all chuckling] - Yeah.

- And when everything is going well, you know, it's seamless.

And so we have to do... Like Dr. Dawson said, we have to major on knowing the technology, right, and studying and getting ahead of the technology, right?

So that we can give the client the user experience that they want and have options, right?

Because every client is different.

We need to be very well-versed in what the options are out there.

So we're educating ourselves on the technology and we're the technologists operating and bridging that gap between the user and the client.

- Yeah.

And all three of you have mentioned staying abreast of what's coming.

Professor Dawson, talk to us about anticipating what's gonna be hot.

What are students supposed to be looking out for?

And really, we're not preparing students for today, we're preparing them for tomorrow, for the future.

So what are some of the hot tech spaces that our students will be looking at?

- Well, the first thing we have to talk about is generative AI, right, that's hit the scene November 2022 to the masses, and it's going to continue to grow.

So when we think about generative AI, we think about generative in the sense of text and creating, you know, essays and resumes.

But you also have generative AI when you're thinking about creation of music, when you're thinking about creation of still pictures and then videos.

And the impact that that particular type of AI is going to have on society...

When you think about healthcare, when you think about climate change, the possibilities are endless.

And so it's vitally important that, again, educators have an understanding and we can help our students get up to speed and to be able to wrap their head around this new technology.

- Yeah.

And one thing I think we haven't mentioned yet is diversity in this space, right?

We're on Black Issues Form, obviously.

We talk about the importance of all of our topics in our minority spaces.

But how important... Chenae, I'll start with you with this question.

How important is it to see us, to see representation in this space?

- Yeah, so I work in big tech.

So big tech would be the really big tech companies.

Any big tech company that you can think of, that's where I work.

- Yeah.

- And so, essentially, what I've learned in working in big tech is anytime I post something, or anytime I do a video, or anytime I'm on live, for example, people say, "Chenae, you have a haircut that's unique.

You speak how you speak.

You slang."

I talk how I talk.

And part of that is because I wanted...

I like to test to see if I can actually be myself in this space.

Do I need to put on a mask, or can I actually be who I am in my everyday life?

- Yeah.

- And so I've had people actually apply to different companies and be comfortable with being who they are because I've been comfortable in being who I am and I'm still able to be in this space.

I also joined... Actually, just last night, I joined Blacks in Technology, which is BIT, essentially, for short, in the RDU area.

And that group, or that organization, is specific to African Americans who wanna get into tech.

I've partnered quite a bit with different recruiters who focus specifically on programs who... Their programs specifically may focus on finding Black people who don't have degrees and to try to put them into tech.

And so it's important to see us because representation is everything, right?

- Everything, yeah.

- And it's also important to understand that we can be Black, we can have natural hair, we can have locks, we can have funky haircuts, we can speak how we speak, we can be all different shades of the same race and still love what we do and come together to be unified.

- Yeah.

You guys jump in.

Talk to me about that importance of diversity.

- Very important.

Like I said, I pride myself on it as Tech Factory, as a CEO, right, and want to make sure that all of my team, you know, understand that they can be comfortable, right?

I don't do the...

I've never been the one to play the code-switching game.

- Yeah.

- I talk how I talk.

I'm a country boy, right?

But you know, when I'm articulating, I'm just articulating.

I'm being me.

I'm not trying to be anything different.

- And I think one thing that...

Your clients get to see this all-Black team too.

And I think that's great, right, to see that quality is the same.

'Cause I think that's a question a lot of us... You know, "Will the quality be the same?"

And so... Just, you know, you teach at HBCU, so obviously there's plenty of diversity in your classrooms, but preparing them to step into a world that doesn't always look like them... - Right.

- Yeah.

- And I will say that the quality is exceptional.

[all chuckling] This is an exceptional shop here.

- Thank you so much.

- But yeah, as far as, like, the diversity...

So at the law school, we have the Technology Law and Policy Center.

And one of the things that we focus on is, you know, not just preparing our students to be lawyers in the privacy space or cybersecurity incident response, we also talk about the impact that technology is having on marginalized communities... - Yeah.

- ...and issues that we, as people of color, need to pay attention to.

So how do we make sure that disparities don't grow... - Mmm-hmm.

- ...as a result of technology being used?

So that's part of the representation.

And we talk to our students about... We have to make sure that we have people in the room who are making these regulatory decisions and policy decisions and thinking about the harms who come from the communities that are most susceptible to abuse.

- Yeah.

- And so that's a crucial part of this diversity, making sure that you've got, you know, people in the room who look like us.

- Yeah.

- And I'd like to say something with that.

With my team being predominantly Black, right...

Very intentional on the people that are not Black that are working on that team so that they understand, like, I'm being very intentional, this is not exclusive, right?

And then having them understand why I'm on this mission, right?

- Yeah.

- And I think that's very important so that everybody's comfortable and understands.

- Yeah.

- So it's not a secret for those that are not Black on my team that I'm doing this and being very intentional about it.

- Yeah, yeah, good point, good point.

Well, exploring the ethical dilemmas and societal effects of technology, including topics like data privacy, cybersecurity, algorithm bias, and automation's impact on jobs are becoming a higher concern for so many as we begin to see the loss of control we could potentially experience as advancements continue.

Dr. Dawson, I'll come back to you.

You have authored a book.

Tell us about this book.

And then talk to us about the impact that AI has on the legal system.

- Yeah, so the book is called "Artificial Intelligence and Academic Integrity."

I was not even thinking about this as a book a year ago because we didn't have generative AI.

Not that academic integrity has not and continues to be very important.

But with the, you know, the deployment of ChatGPT and the ability of students to have what they should be producing being produced so easily by this technology, we wanted to make sure that, at least in the law school space, the book is for law students, but it's applicable to all educational spaces, that students gained an understanding of how to use a technology responsibly, because there is a place for use in the educational space, but how do you use it responsibly and in a way that doesn't undercut your ability to grow and develop those skills?

Because if you have to learn to write, you can't rely upon ChatGPT to write for you, right?

- Exactly, right.

- And so making sure that they understand that.

The other reason why it was important is because, when we think about academic integrity, and we think about the legal profession, lawyers have a code of conduct, right?

We have professional responsibility rules.

And if you can't understand, appreciate, and adopt academic integrity rules and codes of conduct in school, that filters into the type of attorney that you may potentially be.

- Right.

- So we wanna make that tie for the students.

- Oh, that's so important.

And Chenae, when we talk about recruiting and using tech to that advantage, is that kind of a cheat [laughing] when you say, you know, you're recruiting in tech, but you got tech to help you out with this too.

- Good question.

- So how do you balance that?

- [Chenae] Good question.

So we get... As recruiters, we get the question a lot of, "How do I beat the applicant tracking system, or the ATS," right?

We get that quite a bit.

So I'm gonna dispel this myth quite a bit, okay?

- Okay.

- There is no such thing as beating the applicant tracking system.

When you apply as a candidate into a company and that company has required questions listed inside of their application, if you answer no to any of those required questions, you are admitting that you do not meet he minimum qualification for that particular role.

So I wanna just dispel that myth just quite a bit.

When I use...

I don't necessarily use tech to, kind of, make my job easier.

I actually make myself not do that because I'm going to lose the fundamental values that I learned in school, or that I learned in my own research.

So I do my best not to do that.

I'm actually very late to using ChatGPT because I told myself that, if I rely on it too much, I'm gonna forget how to write.

- That's true.

- Hands down.

- Yeah.

- So if I don't practice it, then I'm gonna forget it quite a bit.

But I do give people tips and tricks on how to, as job seekers, how to use AI to help them find roles as AI can send them roles while they're manually applying to jobs as well.

So I encourage people to use the generative AI in conjunction with them actually manually applying to roles on their own so they don't feel like they're, kind of, desperately out here looking for jobs.

It's, "Can the AI send me jobs that I meet, you know, minimum qualifications for, but can I also, on my own, do my own research to determine if these jobs match?"

- Yeah, good answer.

[all laughing] Ricardo, when we talk about the intersection of tech and production, obviously it enhances a client's experience, but how do you ensure that client's proprietary information is secure, is safe, and what do you do in that space to ensure that?

- Yeah, so, just because you're on the Tech Factory team, doesn't mean you have access to everything, you know, that we have of the clients, right?

You have to be very judicious in how you divide that up.

Of course, we have clients that make us sign NDAs, right?

We hold a lot of materials and things that can't get out there.

Delta Sigma Theta is one of our largest clients, right?

[Chenae talking] [all laughing] Awesome.

Okay, we didn't event talk about that earlier.

- Oh, so we have a... Oh, so there's two of you guys today.

- Absolutely.

- Okay.

- Absolutely.

[all chuckling] - So we do a ton of work with them.

- Yeah.

- National conferences, regional conferences.

And it is very important to protect their assets, right?

And I take it very seriously.

And so we just have to make sure that we understand who needs the access and then sign the NDAs on the employee side as well as, you know... Of course we sign them from the organization, right?

- Right.

- So we just have to be very careful and make sure we communicating.

Things we can't post, right?

- Yeah.

- We just did the national conference stream, 27 rooms, right?

- Wow.

27... - 27 rooms.

- [Kenia] 27 breakout rooms for those... - 27.

- Yeah.

- And three or four gen sessions, right?

- Wow.

- So we just had to, you know... We didn't give everybody access to certain rooms.

Like... - Yeah.

- If you can't see certain things...

It's like, we had 11 people there.

We just block off access to the room.

So we take that very seriously because, you know, we sign these agreements and we wanna protect our clients.

- Yeah, makes sense.

And so what I'm hearing here is ethical responsibilities.

And I wanna pivot back to you.

Let's talk about the ethical responsibility that we all have.

Number one, right?

We all have... As journalists, we have it too.

And as communicators, we have that.

As friends, we have that.

But more importantly, in the space of tech, talk about the teachings around ethical responsibility and how do you address that?

- Yes.

And I think it begins with the education piece.

Like, what does the technology do?

What information does it gather?

So when we're, you know, talking about privacy, do we understand, and for those of us that do have an understanding, are we educating the community about how your data is being gathered and being used, right, in a way that you may not realize or appreciate, right?

And so the ethics requires, first, that education... - Yeah.

- ...and then educating others.

The other thing that we have to be really mindful of is, when we are thinking about ethics, is who's in control, right?

- Mmm-hmm.

- Who's making the decisions?

And we know this is a country that, you know, we've got three branches of government, right?

These are things we talk about in the com law class.

But then we have these, a very few number of tech giants that are making decisions that are impacting our everyday lives.

- Yeah.

- And so that's part of the ethics as well, like understanding the structure, because you can't enforce your rights if you don't understand how your rights are being violated.

- That's true.

That's true.

Good points.

When we talk about conversations about businesses and industries that are adapting and transforming through technology, including discussions about digital strategies and transforming how we plan for our digital futures... Chenae, I'ma come back to you.

When we talk about looking at the future of work in a tech-driven world, what do you think that looks like?

- We have to stay abreast of the updates.

110, probably 120%.

- Yeah.

- It's important that, as Dean Dawson said, it's important that we understand that technology is always changing.

And so in order for us to stay ahead of it, we also have to change and be educated on it as well.

We have to understand what, even startup tech companies, what they're developing, and how partnerships are happening, what subsidiaries fall under parent companies.

It's understanding how all of these companies kind of flow together.

- Yeah.

- And then also understanding, too... What I've learned just from the Black community is that we're a little late in getting into technology.

And so I wanna make sure that those of us who come from marginalized communities, we understand that the access is different from what our counterparts have.

And so I wanna make sure that, me personally, I am a part of bringing certain information into middle schools and high schools and even community colleges where access is a little bit stricken quite a bit.

- Yeah.

- And so I wanna make sure that we are very much ahead of the game instead of feeling like we're catching up, because I feel like, at this point, we are playing catch-up to some of our counterparts.

- Yeah.

Ricardo, we chatted a little bit about this.

Rural areas, access to technology, access to Internet, you know.

How do you work with the client to ensure that they get the best product they can receive, but also understanding some of the limitations?

- Yeah, so it starts with education, right?

You know, I have to let 'em know, like, "Okay, if we're streaming to 20,000 people, right, it's gonna be varying levels of access, Internet access, right?"

- Yeah.

- "So you may not be able to stream at 4K.

You're probably gonna have to stream at 720," right?

- Yeah.

- And then on the receiving end, on the talent side, you have to look at it as well, right, what that bandwidth looks like, and then educating them on, "Okay, we have 20 panelists, but we have three of them that are in areas that, you know, the bandwidth is not gonna be conducive to 720p," right?

- Yeah.

- "So it might be 360... - Yeah.

... but let's make sure that we know that ahead of time... - Yeah.

- and so we're educated on it, so you don't think that I can do anything better than, you know... - Yeah.

Unless there's a pre-record happening, something like that."

- Right, yeah.

- Those are the options.

- Yeah.

About 30 seconds left in show.

Just a real quick thought.

What should we be considering in our personal conversations when it comes to the future of AI, the impact of technology can have?

I know there's probably a lot to say in 30 seconds.

- Yes, yes.

I just wanna underscore what Chenae had said in terms of us being behind as a community.

- Yeah.

- The workforce is changing, and if you don't have skills where you can leverage the technology, you will not be able to be gainfully employed and support your family.

- Yeah.

- So we, as a community, we've gotta...

Right?

We can't be behind.

- Yeah.

- It is going to impact the economic viability of our continued existence.

- Well said, well said.

Thank you.

Thank you all.

We invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbssnc.org/blackissuesforum and follow us on the PBS video app.

Thank you for watching.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

[upbeat music] ♪ [upbeat music] ♪ - [Announcer] Black Issues Forum is a production of PBS North Carolina with support from the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.