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Hello again friends.

I'm Jason Edens your host of Lakeland Currents.

Thanks for joining the conversation today and thanks for your ongoing support of Lakeland Public TV.

Well, it's my privilege to host yet another season of Lakeland Currents and we're kicking it off with an important conversation about domestic and partner violence.

October is Domestic Violence Awareness month which is why I've invited our friends from the Brainerd-based Mid-Minnesota Women's Center to join us.

Joining me today are Shannon Wuzzo, Executive Director and Vicki Floor, Programs Manager.

Thank you both for joining me and thanks for making time for our conversation.

Thanks for having us.

Thank you.

So why isn't every month domestic violence awareness month?

That's a good question.

It is for us, but the reason why we have just the one month is because the governor has made a proclamation to identify October as a month that we specifically focus on raising awareness.

That was actually a governor decision?

Yep, it was just released today that Governor Walz did that.

No kidding.

Interesting.

Well, tell me how do we define domestic violence?

How would someone know if they're actually in an abusive relationship and would that also include emotional abuse and if so what's that?

So domestic violence is actually, it can be sexual, financial, verbal, emotional, physical and to be honest the physical comes long after all of those other things come into play and so all of the other, the verbal, the emotional, the financial, the sexual, that all happens prior to you know somebody physically getting harmed and so it's a it's a lot of different variants.

I think that a lot of people don't know that they're in it until they call and reach out and say is this a healthy relationship?

Is this not?

Like what is this?

Am I doing okay or is this really not doing okay for me and you know if they're in fear, what does that look like?

You know are they feeling that they're afraid for their life or are they feeling like they have to walk on eggshells or are cupboards getting slammed or you know is a dog being threatened or a cow.

You know that they're going to be dinner.

You know those kind of things and so it's actually just like a lot of a lot of different things can happen.

I think oftentimes people go and identify the physical violence because it's what you can see on somebody else but for most people the most traumatizing aspects of the domestic violence or intimate partner violence is the emotional abuse.

Where if somebody is, their self-esteem is worn down over you know a long long period of time to the point where they don't feel as though they're worth anything more than what they currently have.

So if someone doesn't feel safe they can actually reach out to you and simply inquire and basically you can act as a sounding board to help them determine whether or not they're in an unsafe situation?

Right, we have a 24-hour crisis hotline that people can call any time that they're needing to reach out.

It can be for support.

It can be to vent.

It's completely confidential.

So if somebody wants to call and just ask some questions and not give a name for a friend.

They can they can do that too.

Okay, now what are some common misperceptions or misconceptions about domestic violence?

Is this something for example that only happens in low-income communities or is it something that's driven by substance abuse?

So, I think there's a few misconceptions and I probably, a couple of the biggest ones is that it's only happens to women.

That's not true.

It happens to anyone including men and so we do provide services to men as well.

I would say that.

I would say that it doesn't happen to the wealthy.

That's not true.

It happens to everyone.

We've had millionaires actually reach out to us to get services from us.

So financially is not, doesn't decide if that's going to be a determining factor.

No, domestic violence does not discriminate on any grounds and that's what it's really important to make sure that we understand because you know one in three people have experienced domestic violence.

So, if in your circle of friends or in your office at work, if you count that out, you know somebody who's experienced it.

You just might not know who it is.

One in three.

So, you also provide services for men that have potentially been abused?

Correct.

Interesting and what's the percentage or the ratio between men versus women that are victims of domestic violence?

It fluctuates but approximately 25% of our clients are identify as male.

Okay, interesting.

Now what about the LGBTQ community, is domestic violence something that we're also seeing there and does behave differently?

Are there different patterns and do you serve folks in the LGBTQ community as well?

Absolutely, we serve anybody, so that any person that is needing assistance we will try to assist as best as we can and if we aren't able to we'll make the appropriate referrals to somebody else who knows how to do it better.

Sure.

We don't ever want to tell anybody no or turn them away, so we will we'll figure it out and speaking of that we're actually going through right now our board of directors is completing a rebranding process.

So, that way our name kind of accurately reflects who it is that we serve and what it is that we do.

Sure.

Just because that could be something that would deter a male from reaching out to us or anybody else.

So, that's where we're working on that right now.

Okay, now bystander apathy is basically this sociological phenomenon right where people would be reluctant to help a victim, assuming that someone else would step in and do so.

We're often told that domestic violence is a family affair and we shouldn't interfere.

Isn't that bystander apathy and what should someone do if they suspect that someone is a victim of domestic violence?

Well, first of all I don't think that domestic violence is a family affair.

It does impact the overall health and well-being of our entire community, therefore it is an issue that all of us should be invested in trying to resolve.

For sure.

It's, it doesn't and leaving it to the advocates is probably best then you know, say Shannon helping her own sister out.

It's really best that Shannon send her sister to us.

Because we don't have a personal buy-in you know and so we want to help them.

We want what's best for them but we also want them to be goal-oriented for what is best for them.

They're the experts in their life and so when we try to help our own family and friends, we tend to maybe give the wrong advice or we don't maybe know certain things that could affect you know custody or whatever the case may be.

Or what the laws are or anything right and because the advocates have been trained in this field.

So ,you have a number of people at the center that serve specifically as advocates and what do those advocates do exactly?

Well what don't they do?

Every individual that comes to us is different and they have different needs.

Their relationships are different.

Their family dynamics are different, therefore how an advocate works with every survivor that comes to us for services is different.

It's really guided by the person that's reaching out for assistance.

Okay, so it's highly customized based on that individual's needs.

Right because and it's gonna look different because somebody who is elder, their needs are going to be different than somebody who's maybe 30. who has young children.

You know somebody who's elder,their children are adult and grown out and they've been probably in this relationship for 30 some years versus you know somebody who's 30 who has been in it for two years and their needs are totally different.

You know they're going to need hearing aids, glasses, dentures.

You know their personal hygiene needs are different versus somebody who's 30 and so it really is customized based on what the actual person needs individually.

That makes sense.

Can you tell us a little bit about the power and control wheel and also how can that help us all understand power dynamics whether it's in a relationship with someone or potentially even at our place of work?

Well, I would say the power control wheel guides almost everything that we do at our domestic violence shelter and I think it would be beneficial for everybody to review it and the one thing that sticks out to me the most with the power and control wheel is that there doesn't have to be physical violence for there to be an unhealthy relationship.

The other thing the power and control wheel does not just apply to intimate partner relationships.

Every person we come into contact with, we have a relationship with.

Sure.

And there can be, you know, just a dynamic where it's unbalanced and the power and control wheel really helps guide that.

Interesting.

Yeah and we always tell people, like you should go over this with anybody.

I mean when you do go over the power and control wheel, it can be your bible study group.

It can be your friends.

It can be your siblings.

It could be your children.

You know, it really is not, the power and control wheel is helpful for anybody.

You don't have to be sexual with that person in order for it to be successful like for you to understand that a healthy relationship.

You and I need to have a healthy relationship, you know and so it could be for anybody and so it's a really cool tool to kind of walk through a healthy and unhealthy relationship.

Well, speaking of children, I'm curious, do you think that the power and control wheel could be used as a teaching tool in our schools or let me also ask you this, if you were to change one thing about the way in which we educate our children in order to reduce or eliminate domestic violence and partner violence what would it be?

It would be teaching about healthy relationships as soon as they're able to start forming them which is from when they're born.

You know role modeling what that looks like so that would be you know in the home, in daycare, in schools, you know, every situation where everybody has the right to be treated with respect and it would be best to start showing that and teaching that but identifying that as well being purposeful and how it is that we identify that so they understand and are able to apply that later on in life.

Yeah.

And do you think our schools are doing an adequate job at that?

I think we could always do more.

Anytime that you're in a service industry, I think it would be a shame if you become complacent and you accept how things are going.

We always strive to do better and if we learn something new and we can you know apply that and it helps one more person than what we were doing before, that's worth it.

And there's nothing wrong with refreshers.

Absolutely.

You know absolutely nothing wrong with refreshers so even if a child who's you know in the elementary school learns it, doesn't mean that a middle school or you know high schooler or a college student or an adult can't learn this and so you know we believe that everybody can be re-educated or you know just touch base on it and just gone over gone over it.

So yeah let's talk a little bit about law enforcement.

Is law enforcement a friend or a foe to your services?

Do you find that law enforcement is supportive and collaborative with your efforts?

Absolutely they are.

We would not be able to do what we do without their support but we also support them and what they do as well.

So it's definitely, it's a two-way street or a healthy relationship if you will.

No, it's we call them for assistance, they contact us.

They help connect us with victims on scene and we can you know connect with them immediately and try to get those services to them if they are looking for that.

They contact us for training services and we contact them as well you know help us learn your restrictions and what it is that the parameters that you're working within so that we can better serve the people because to be honest with you, law enforcement and our advocates want the same thing in return or in the end.

It's just that they just get there a little differently.

So how have you supported law enforcement?

That's interesting to me.

Have you helped them better understand how this is a pervasive issue or to what you know in what ways have you helped them?

For sure we have.

You know we go in and do trainings with them.

Anytime that there's something that maybe in a police report that didn't go well for a victim you know reaches out to us.

We're okay having that hard conversation you know and saying hey Chief Bestul, we gotta have a conversation.

Not sure what happened here but from the outside view this doesn't look great and he's okay with that.

You know he's okay with saying yeah let's sit down and figure out what happened so that we don't repeat it and that we can like make it better and they ask what could we have done differently in this situation or you know they'll reach out to us and say hey this is the situation, what's your opinion?

How could we move forward and help this person?

So and we, you know, collaborate doing like the Polar Plunge and they did a fishing tournament, a Kids Fishing with a Cop recently and you know we helped collaborate with that and they utilize our buildings for their canine training.

So we really just try to educate each other and but we're also again I think the most important thing that we do is have those hard conversations when things don't make sense or when things seem like they were off.

We're both okay with trying to figure out how can we do this better and you know and we're okay with that and that's probably our largest bonus is that we're okay with having these.

Well there are multiple law enforcement agencies that are represented on the Crow Wing County Coordinating Council as well.

Coordinating Council?

Correct.

Okay, so that's a group of us that meet quarterly and we review just different things regarding victim services and so there's multiple stakeholders that are present and we talk through any current trends or changes and then we also discuss and have a case study that we review together as well.

Isn't it true that responding to a domestic violence incident is among the most dangerous things that a law enforcement officer can encounter?

Is that right?

That's correct.

And why is that?

The unpredictable.

You know they're going to an unpredictable situation that they don't know if that person has a weapon.

They don't know that when they open the door, that they're not going to be shot.

Domestic violence is super violent and it's getting more violent.

Which is scary.

Is that right ?

Yeah, well and in a situation like that again it's about the control so if you have somebody who feels like they are losing control of either the situation or the person that they want to be in control of, there isn't anything that they won't do to try to maintain that.

I see.

It's very dangerous for them and it's I can't imagine going on those calls but in a situation where they're called to a domestic violence report they're able to clear the scene and then they can call our agency and we can go out and meet with the victim or speak with the victim on the telephone and then that kind of frees up law enforcement to be able to do other reports or interviews or investigation that they need to as well.

So your advocates aren't actually on the calls with law enforcement is that right?

They don't join law enforcement to respond to an incident?

No, no that's law enforcement that does that initially but then they'll call us from the scene.

Yeah sure.

And say hey this is what we're, this is where we're at, this is who we have and then we talk with the victim or we'll go there or we'll go to the hospital.

Where, whatever the case might be we're we're there to help them and they know that.

So, the sooner a victim survivor is connected with services the less amount of time it will take for them to be make decisions to help keep them safe.

It's not always necessarily leaving the relationship but it's just that much more information or that many more tools that they'll have should they find themselves in a situation like that again.

And are there any law enforcement officers that have been convicted of domestic violence?

Oh for sure.

In the United States?

Absolutely yep.

Well, let's talk also about the judicial system.

How often are perpetrators of domestic violence actually brought to justice if you will?

Well, I think it's important to note that not the justice system doesn't typically become involved in a domestic violence situation until very long after that relationship has gotten to that point because the first time something happens I don't think that the initial response of a victim is to call law enforcement right away.

Well, I guess a follow-up question.

Is domestic violence treated in a court of law in the same way that an assault would be if it were to happen on the street?

Is it the same?

I don't think that it's treated the same and I think part of the reason why is because it's such a difficult topic to understand.

People don't understand why a victim would call law enforcement, call 911 when they're in danger and then say want to recant their story later.

So there's just all these different moving parts, so that's where if they they do get connected to somebody, some support person oftentimes that that does help the outcome in the courtroom as well.

Sure and why would someone want to recant their story?

Fear, fear, their emotional attachment, again, you know, I mean there could be different things that are wrapped up in this relationship where if if that victim, all of their identity is with this person.

They don't have a support system.

They've been moved away from family members.

They don't have a job so they're financially dependent on the individual.

Children that are involved, you know, this is what they know.

This is what they know.

Right, so it might not be great but it is they're familiar.

They're familiar with what to do and how to survive in that situation and if you pull that person out, they don't know how to survive always without that person until they can get connected with you know our agency so that we can help them understand and show them that there's these resources and you know give them the the hope that you know you can do this and you've got this and you don't have to be in that situation.

So if it doesn't actually frequently end up in a court of law, are there people that haven't been convicted that potentially are perpetrators?

Absolutely.

Interesting, interesting.

Well, so just recently the U.S Senate has reconsidered reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act and of course that's a federal piece of legislation.

What type of legislation would be transformative for your work here in Minnesota?

Well, that legislation is, we do receive a vow of funding through a grant that we receive through the State of Minnesota, Office of Justice programs that include state and federal dollars.

I see.

And we are absolutely dependent on those dollars in order to continue operating our agency.

Our Victims of Crimes Act grant that we receive, accounts for approximately 62 percent of our annual expense budget.

So the fact that this hasn't been reauthorized then since 2019, has that been problematic for your services?

Well, it definitely causes us to stress a great deal.

Thankfully, for us though like especially, just in the last year there's been some additional grant opportunities have become available, so we've absolutely attempted those and we have a very very strong community support here.

So that's what keeps us open.

Well, what would be something that would be on your legislative wish list?

Right, like what would be one thing that you'd really like to see either added to that federal piece of legislation or maybe something additional here in the State of Minnesota?

Is there something that would transform your work?

I think putting more of a focus on prevention.

Okay.

Honestly I think all of us that work for Mid-Minnesota Women's Center would love to see the day when we've worked ourselves out of a job.

And what would that look like?

What would that preventive piece be?

What aren't we doing as a society that we could be doing to prevent it?

Oh boy, education like even more education and holding people accountable sooner.

Sure.

You know, not waiting for a broken arm or you know a fat lip in order for something to somebody to be held accountable.

Which we know is complicated.

We know that that's difficult but I think really just education and holding making sure that people are held accountable.

One for people to understand that this is all of our problems.

It's not just the problem of the victim.

You know, I mean when you talk about a victim who has been injured and they're at the hospital and they're having to miss work, that impacts the employer.

Who knows where it is that they're working at, you know.

I mean so that impacts insurance, children, daycare, you know absolutely so it really does have an impact on every facet of our lives and as I think when we all understand that this is a community and a society issue then maybe we can get more buy-in for people to become invested in preventing it.

So, because it's a community and a societal issue, what efforts are you taking in order to help perpetrators better understand power dynamics and their own struggles as an abuser?

Is there anything that can be done for folks that are actually committing these crimes?

I think we do a lot of community presentations and professional trainings.

So we do that but also kind of one thing that we've got on the horizon that we would like to start is a domestic abuse transformational program.

Which is actually a training for or an educational program for people who have been convicted of abuse.

Interesting.

And it's really just learning about you know them learning about where does their where does their need to be in control come from and as soon as they can understand that then they can work through some of that and you know they get that aha moment of well now I understand.

I don't need to do that.

I don't have to hurt or harm somebody or scare them to get what I want.

I just have to talk kindly you know and so it's really back to that education, educating, educating.

We can never learn enough or teach enough you know.

So anger management is that also part of that rehabilitation process or?

No, it's actually, a lot of people think that it would be but anger management is not the issue when it comes to somebody who has issues with power and control.

Okay.

It because if you think about it oftentimes there are abusers that we don't know are abusers right?

That's because they're able to control themselves in certain situations.

It's interesting.

So, it that really isn't the core issue.

So we talked a little bit about legislation here, I'm curious, are there any countries in the world that you think have done a really good job at either reducing or maybe even eliminating domestic violence?

Are there any countries that you put up on a pedestal in terms of their approach to this societal issue?

No, because I think that every country has it.

We all just make it public or don't make it public in certain ways and so I think every our entire world needs a lot of help and education and you know we can always do better.

We just have to be kind.

We want that you know.

Everybody needs to want to treat somebody kind.

I like your emphasis on kindness.

So, well according to the Urban Indian Health Institute, there are currently at least 500 open cases for missing and potentially murdered Indigenous women.

Why is it that the recent Gabby Petito case has garnered so much national attention?

I don't know the why for it.

I don't and I think any time that there's a spotlight shone on a victim survivor that that's that's good.

But I'm also happy that it's being shone on other other cultural groups as well.

But I think social media, you know, friends, a lot of her friends or family or people who want other victims have really brought her case to social media.

You know they're kind of the ones that really have been pushing it out there whether it's TikTok, Snapchat, you know, like in Facebook any of those and I think that the more you know the squeaky wheel gets the oil and you know I think that just people have really been pushing it and feeding it and just making it out there.

So it's social media driven partially.

So I don't think that there was like one thing that had happened.

I just think people just started flooding social media, different outlets of hey look at this, look at this, look at this and people are paying attention to it.

Well, we only have a couple more minutes but I want to learn a little bit about the Alex and Brandon Center.

Is that correct?

That's something that you also manage.

We do.

Tell us about it.

So, that facility opened in 2000 and it is to the purpose is to offer supervised visits and safe exchanges for families who are needing to rebuild relationships in a safe and stable environment.

Yeah, so it's a super cool facility.

So it's the Alex and Brandon Child Safety Center.

It was named after Angie Plattenberg's two boys who were taken way too early by their father.

They had on, they were going through a bad divorce and a judge court ordered him the father to have unsupervised visits and he had taken them on July 3rd and never returned them.

And so Angie and Louise, Angie at the time during her divorce, her and the boys were attending our support group, our community support group and she was working with Louise and so Angie of course turned to Louise and they got together and came up with the Alex and Brandon Child Safety Center and lobbied with the Wells at the time and got it going and created the safety center so that this doesn't happen to you know this has the potential to not happen to another family if services are you know offered to for families to use.

And so, yeah we provide services, safe exchanges and supervised visits to families and we've had families that we have skyped with because the dad was in California and the child was here and so we did those and you know we try really hard to be accommodating and figure out how can we rehelp this child, rebuild the relationship with the parent, the mother or the father or the grandparents for that matter in a safe and healthy way and so if the staff's role really is to sit and observe and document and you know stop a visit if something's not going well or redirect a parent who maybe is wanting to talk about the mom or the dad.

You know it's the staff to redirect them so that they're focusing back on building that healthy relationship with the children or the child.

So if community members want to get in touch either to support your work or potentially to access your services, how do they do so?

So they can call us at the shelter.

That phone number is 218-828-1216 or they, I mean really they could reach out to us and find more information about what we do on both of our Facebook pages.

So that both the shelter and the safety center both have Facebook pages with a ton of information about us.

Fantastic.

Well, Shannon and Vicky, I want to thank you both for the work that you do in our community.

I also want to thank you for your time today.

I really appreciate you joining me.

Thanks for having us.

This is great.

And I want to thank all of you for joining me once again.

I'm Jason Edens your host of Lakeland Currents.

Be kind and be well.

We'll see you next week.