REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

OUR GUEST TODAY IS DON USNER, A PHOTOJOURNALIST WHO HAS MADE SUCH A DIFFERENCE IN THE LIVES OF NEW MEXICO AND NEW MEXICANS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>DON: MY PLEASURE, LORENE.

>>LORENE: WELL, I HAVE ASKED YOU HERE BECAUSE YOUR NEW SERIES OF WORK, IT'S CALLED OUR LIVES NOW AND LET'S SEE, THE WHOLE TITLE IS... >>DON: A PHOTOGRAPHER'S JOURNAL OF LIFE DURING THE PANDEMIC .

>>LORENE: A PHOTOGRAPHER'S JOURNAL OF LIFE DURING THE PANDEMIC AND YOUR PHOTOGRAPHS KNOCKED ME OUT.

FOR ALL WE THINK, OH WE HAVE BEEN IN OUR GARDENS FOR A YEAR AND WE CAN'T GO OUT BUT WE ARE OKAY AND WE HAVE HAD OUR BOOSTER AND LA-DI-DAH.

THERE IS A HECK OF A LOT OF NOT LA-DI-DAH GOING ON IN A LOT OF PEOPLE'S LIVES AND YOU HAVE GONE THERE.

AND I DO WANT TO MENTION THAT YOU ARE WORKING FOR SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO .

THIS IS THEIR MAGAZINE FOR THIS YEAR AND THEY ARE A NONPARTISAN NEWS ORGANIZATION DEDICATED TO INVESTIGATIVE AND PUBLIC SERVICE JOURNALISM IN THE INTEREST OF THE PEOPLE OF NEW MEXICO.

SO, TELL ME ABOUT THIS PROJECT AND THEN IN A MINUTE WE WILL START SHOWING SOME PHOTOGRAPHS.

WE WILL GET TO SOME OF YOUR PAST WORK THAT IS ALSO IMPORTANT, BUT I WANT TO START WITH THESE PHOTOGRAPHS BECAUSE THEY REALLY CHANGED ME, THEY ARE VERY POWERFUL.

SO, TELL ME ABOUT OUR LIVES NOW.

>>DON: WELL IT STARTED OUT AS AN EFFORT TO GET A SENSE FOR WHAT THE STATE WOULD BE GOING THROUGH AS COVID WAS TAKING OFF.

THE NOTION WAS LET'S FOLLOW ITS PROGRESS IN SEVERAL PLACES IN THE STATE AND SEE HOW DIFFERENT PLACES RESPOND.

>>LORENE: AND YOU CHOOSE FIVE PLACES TO FOCUS ON.

>>DON: YES, AND NOW IT IS KIND OF A COLLABORATIVE PROCESS BETWEEN ME AND THE EDITORS AND WE SETTLED ON FIVE TOWNS.

IT WAS DIFFICULT AND OUR PRIMARY INTEREST WAS IN GEOGRAPHICAL DIVERSITY AND WE CAN'T COVER THIS WHOLE STATE.

SO WE HAD TO MAKE SOME HARD CHOICES BUT WE ENDED UP WITH SOME VERY INTERESTING TOWNS, THERE IS SHIPROCK, GALLUP, LAS VEGAS, ANTHONY AND CARLSBAD.

SO MY JOB WAS TO VISIT THOSE AS A PHOTOGRAPHER REPEATEDLY THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

WE ENVISIONED IT AS BEING A YEAR-LONG PROJECT BECAUSE SURELY THE PANDEMIC WOULD BE OVER BY THEN.

AND WE HAD A NUMBER OF REPORTERS WORKING ON STORIES THROUGHOUT THAT SAME TIME PERIOD VISITING THESE PLACES.

SO, IT WAS A GROUP EFFORT AND IT WAS REALLY WELL ORCHESTRATED AND THE EDITORS AT SEARCHLIGHT , SARA SOLOVITCH IS THE SENIOR EDITOR, REALLY HAD A VISION AT THE BEGINNING TO GUIDE THIS AND IT WAS A REALLY GREAT IDEA.

AND I FOLLOWED THROUGH WITH IT DURING THE YEAR WHICH WAS AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE FOR ME AND ALLOWED ME TO GET SOME UNUSUAL PICTURES.

>>LORENE: WELL, A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS SO WOULD YOU START AND SHOW US SOME OF THE PICTURES AND TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE BACKGROUND OF THE PEOPLE AND OF THE PHOTOGRAPH.

>>DON: OKAY, WELL ONE OF THE PLACES WE VISITED AS I SAID WAS GALLUP, AND I WENT THERE AND WENT OUT WITH A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION IN GALLUP THAT WAS DELIVERING FOOD.

THERE IS QUITE AN EFFORT AND ONE OF THE REALLY HEARTWARMING THINGS ABOUT THE WHOLE PROJECT WAS SEEING THE POSITIVE WAYS THAT PEOPLE RESPONDED TO HELPING EACH OTHER REACHING OUT.

AND THIS IS A PROJECT TO PROVIDE FOOD TO PEOPLE WHO ARE ISOLATED AND EVERYTHING WAS LOCKED DOWN, IT WAS DIFFICULT TO TRAVEL EVEN UNDER THE BEST OF CIRCUMSTANCES WITH COVID LOCKDOWNS.

SO I WENT OUT, WE ACTUALLY CROSSED INTO ARIZONA AND PEOPLE MET US AT A PREDETERMINED DESTINATION NEAR A CHAPTER HOUSE ON THE NAVAJO RESERVATION AND THEY CAME AND LINED UP THEIR PICKUPS AND WE MET THEM WITH A TRUCKLOAD OF FOOD AND IT WAS REALLY A WELL-ORCHESTRATED EFFORT.

THERE WERE PUBLIC HEALTH PEOPLE ON HAND WHO CHECKED EACH PERSON AND ASKED ABOUT THEIR HEALTH, TOOK THEIR TEMPERATURE, GAVE THEM A BOX OF FOOD, AND ALSO, THEY WERE DOING THIS WEEKLY, THEY WOULD DELIVER MEDICINES, PEOPLE WOULD TELL THEM ONE WEEK WHAT THEIR MEDICATIONS WERE AND THEY WOULD BRING THEM THE NEXT WEEK.

SO I STOOD WITH THE PEOPLE HANDING OUT THE FOOD AND THE NURSES DOING THE CHECKUPS AND JUST APPROACHED EACH VEHICLE AND ASKED IF I COULD TAKE PICTURES AND MET THE PEOPLE.

AND RIGHT OFF THE BAT I WAS SO SURPRISED AND PLEASED AT HOW WELCOMING THEY WERE AND WARM AND OPEN TO HAVING THEIR PICTURE TAKEN AND TELLING A LITTLE OF THEIR STORY.

SO THIS IS A WOMAN AND HER NAME IS JEAN WILSON AND THE PLACE WE MET HER WAS I BELIEVE WAS CALLED PINE SPRINGS AND SHE WAS IN A LONG LINE OF CARS AND MOST PEOPLE WORE MASKS AND SOME HAD MASKS AND FACE SHIELDS, SHE DIDN'T AND I WANTED TO GET HER PORTRAIT HEAD ON AND PRETTY CLOSE PORTRAIT, BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO GET CLOSE IN HER FACE BECAUSE OF COVID AND TO JUST TO BE LESS INTIMIDATING.

SO I SAW HER IN THE MIRROR AND I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO STAY DISTANT AND STILL GET THAT EXPRESSION AND I CAUGHT YOU KNOW, ANY PHOTOGRAPH LIKE THIS I TOOK SEVERAL FRAMES, BUT THIS IS THE ONE THAT HAD THE MOST COMPELLING EXPRESSION SHE HAD, YEAH.

>>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY, YEAH, THANK YOU.

>>DON: SO THAT WAS VERY TOUCHING.

AND IN ALL OF THE CASES I MET THE PEOPLE AND I FELT IT WAS EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A BRIEF EXCHANGE, IT WAS REALLY MEANINGFUL FOR ME AND I THINK THEY ENJOYED IT ALSO.

>>LORENE: YES, SHOW US THE NEXT ONE, THIS ONE MAKES ME SO HAPPY.

JUST TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT IT.

>>DON: THIS IS IN CONJUNCTION, I SHOULD SAY THAT ALL THESE OR MOST OF THESE PICTURES WERE PUBLISHED BY SEARCHLIGHT IN CONJUNCTION WITH STORIES THAT WERE BEING DEVELOPED ABOUT THE COVID AND SOMETIMES NOT DIRECTLY ABOUT THE COVID BUT EVERYTHING WAS SHADOWED BY THE COVID.

THIS IS A STORY ABOUT ILLEGAL CANNABIS FARMS IN THE SHIPROCK AREA.

AND THESE WERE KIDS WHO WERE EMPLOYED AT VERY, VERY LOW WAGES TO WORK IN THESE ILLEGAL CANNABIS GREENHOUSES AND THE WRITER ED WILLIAMS AND I SPENT SOME TIME WITH THEM AND WHAT I LOVED ABOUT IT IS THE FEELING OF CELEBRATION.

THEY TOOK ME TO ONE OF THE KID'S MOTHER SO I COULD GET A SIGNATURE FOR PHOTO RELEASE AND THEY PULLED OUT THEIR SKATEBOARDS AND THIS IS THEIR SKATEBOARD PARK.

AND I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS SUCH A LOVELY SCENE AND JUST THEIR EXUBERANCE, WHICH IS SO CONTRARY TO THE MOOD REALLY OF THE TIME, ESPECIALLY ON THE RESERVATION.

THIS IS AT A TIME WHEN THE NAVAJO NATION WAS STRUGGLING WITH REALLY HIGH INFECTION RATES, A LOT OF DEATHS AND ALSO YOU KNOW IT'S THE SHIPROCK LANDMARK, IT IS SO ICONIC AND TO PUT THE LANDMARK IN THIS CONTEXT I THOUGHT WAS... >>LORENE: IT WAS WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL.

>>DON: YEAH.

>>LORENE: YOU HAVE TWO OTHER, WHILE YOU WERE IN NAVAJO LAND, ONE WAS A WOMAN SITTING IN HER LIVING ROOM AND THEN I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE THAT ONE AND THEN THE ONE WHERE YOU HAD TO MEET THEM, WHERE THE MEDICAL CREW HAD TO MEET THEM AT A MOTEL.

>>DON: YES.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE THEY WERE POSITIVE.

>>DON: YES.

>>LORENE: LET'S SEE IF WE CAN JUST BRIEFLY TALK ABOUT THEM, WE HAVE TO PICK UP THE PACE.

>>DON: MOVE IT ALONG, MOVE IT ALONG HERE OKAY.

>>LORENE: I KNOW, BUT THEY ARE SO GOOD.

>>DON: THIS IS A REALLY MOVING EXPERIENCE.

THIS IS A WOMAN, THE WRITER AND I, SUNNY, WHO IS A NAVAJO FROM THIS AREA, WE WENT OUT TO DO FOOD DELIVERIES TO SHUT-IN ELDERS AND MANY OF THEM THEIR ONLY MEAL A DAY WAS DELIVERED FROM THE SENIOR CENTER THERE.

THIS WOMAN WAS ISOLATED SPENDING THE DAY WITH HER FIVE OR SIX-YEAR-OLD GRANDDAUGHTER WHO TOOK CARE OF HER AND IT WAS A VERY POIGNANT SCENE.

SHE WAS SUFFERING SOME HEALTH PROBLEMS IN ISOLATION, AND WE WERE BOTH MOVED TO TEARS, THE WRITER AND I.

AND THE SCENE WAS JUST SO COMPELLING, AND THE TV WAS PLAYING THIS KIND OF INANE PROGRAM AND I WAS WATCHING THE SCREEN FOR MOMENTS LIKE THIS, CAUGHT THIS ONE.

SO THAT WAS A VERY POWERFUL EXPERIENCE.

I WILL GET TO THIS ONE, THIS WAS DR. CALEB LAUBER AND HIS ASSISTANT SHANIYA WOOD IN GALLUP.

AND THIS IS A HOTEL WHERE COVID PATIENTS WERE ISOLATED QUARANTINED AND HE WAS DOING HIS ROUNDS VISITING THEM, CHECKING ON EACH ONE, SO I WENT AROUND WITH HIM TO THE VARIOUS ROOMS AND TALKED TO THE PATIENTS AND HEARD HIS AMAZING STORIES ABOUT THE FRONTLINE WORK HE WAS DOING AND THAT WAS REALLY INSIGHTFUL FOR ME.

HE IS NAVAJO, HIS MOTHER IS ELDERLY, HE TAKES CARE OF HER SO HE WAS SUPER CAUTIOUS BUT VERY DEDICATED TO REACHING ALL THESE PEOPLE.

>>LORENE: YES, THEY ARE VERY, VERY POWERFUL.

NOW WE ARE GOING TO MOVE, SHIFT OUR FOCUS FROM NAVAJO LAND.

>>DON: YES.

>>LORENE: TO THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT ACTUALLY MADE ME REALIZE WE HAVE TO GET THESE PHOTOGRAPHS OUT TO EVERYONE TO REALIZE.

SHOW US THIS NEXT PHOTOGRAPH AND TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT IT, BUT LOOK AT THAT FACE.

THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARY PHOTOGRAPH, WHO IS THIS AND WHAT IS GOING ON?

>>DON: I AM STRUGGLING TO REMEMBER HER FIRST NAME RIGHT NOW, ISELA CAMARENA AND SHE AND HER SISTER AND THEIR SISTER'S SEVEN-YEAR-OLD CHILD ARE HOMELESS, THEY HAD BEEN EVICTED FROM THEIR MORE PERMANENT HOME ALTHOUGH THEIR HOUSING HAS BEEN UNSTABLE FOR A LONG TIME AND I FOUND THEM AT A HOTEL IN ALBUQUERQUE THAT HOSTS A LOT OF HOMELESS PEOPLE WHO KIND OF CYCLE IN AND OUT.

AND SHE WAS HAVING ENORMOUS PROBLEMS, SHE HAD BEEN ON THE STREETS AND FALLEN ILL AND SHE WAS AT THIS MOMENT DESCRIBING TO ME WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO FIND HERSELF HOMELESS AND EXTREMELY SICK AND TRYING TO FIND HELP AND SUPPORT AND HOW CRUEL SHE THOUGHT THE WORLD WAS THAT SHE COULDN'T FIND PEOPLE TO HELP HER IN HER DISTRESS WHICH WAS EXTREME.

SHE BEGAN TO CRY AND TELLING ME HOW PAINFUL IT WAS AND I REALLY FELT FOR HER AND HER SITUATION AS ALL THESE PEOPLE THAT I HAVE ENCOUNTERED, IT'S BEEN REALLY AMAZING AND MOVING AND EYE OPENING.

IT HAS BEEN A HUGE EDUCATION FOR ME TO MEET PEOPLE LIKE THIS.

>>LORENE: BUT THAT IS THE GIFT THAT YOU OFFER AS A PHOTOJOURNALIST, BECAUSE I HAVE A WONDERFUL PBS AUDIENCE THAT REALLY CARE ABOUT THINGS LIKE THIS, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO AND SEE WHAT YOU BRING TO US AND FOR ME, IT WAS A REVELATION, YOU KNOW, HOW COULD I BE LA-DI-DAH OR JUST GO ON WITH LIFE AS NORMAL WHEN THAT LEVEL OF SUFFERING IS GOING ON.

>>DON: WELL THAT IS THE SAME THING FOR ME IN TAKING THE PHOTOGRAPHS AND I THINK THAT IS THE MOTIVATION FOR ME, STEPPING OUTSIDE THE BUBBLE, BRINGING BACK THE BUBBLE THAT I LIVE IN AND MANY OF US LIVE IN, TO SEE WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE LIVING LIKE AND IT CAN REALLY SHAKE YOU UP.

THE EXTENT OF IT, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE SUFFERING OUT THERE.

>>LORENE: AND IN THIS NEXT PICTURE, THIS IS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN GRANDMOTHER WITH THIS BEAUTIFUL LITTLE BABY.

BUT AGAIN, THE INTIMACY OF YOUR PORTRAITS WHEN YOU TAKE SOMEONE'S FACE LIKE THAT WHERE IT IS UNGUARDED, THERE IS NO MASK, THAT'S WHO THEY ARE.

>>DON: YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I LOVE, I REALLY LOVE USING THE CAMERA AS A TOOL OF COMMUNICATION RATHER THAN A BARRIER AND FINDING IT AS A WAY TO EXCHANGE AND HAVE A MEANINGFUL CONNECTION.

AND THIS WOMAN WAS REALLY POWERFUL THAT WAY WITH HER GRANDDAUGHTER AND I SAW THEM, THEY WERE IN A PARKING LOT AND THEY ARE LIVING OUT OF A CAR AND HER GRANDSON, THE BABY'S OLDER BROTHER, WAS SITTING ON THE PAVEMENT WITH THE BABY.

AND I JUST SAT DOWN NEXT TO THEM ON THE PAVEMENT AND BEGAN TO TALK TO THEM AND ENGAGE WITH THE FAMILY AND THEN WENT WITH THEM TO VISIT AN UNCLE AND JUST HAD A WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE AND CONNECTION WITH THEM.

>>LORENE: IT SHOWS, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMPLETELY UNGUARDED.

MAYBE WE HAVE TIME FOR ONE MORE AND THEN WE ARE GOING TO GO.

>>DON: OKAY.

>>LORENE: AND LOOK AT A LITTLE MORE RETROSPECTIVE OF SOME OF YOUR OTHER WORK.

OH MY GOODNESS, THAT ONE.

>>DON: THIS ONE HERE?

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>DON: OKAY, THIS ONE WAS DRIVING BACK FROM A TRIP TO, I HAD A LONG TRIP AROUND THE NAVAJO NATION IN SHIPROCK, CROWN POINT, GALLUP, AND THEN THIS WAS AS I WAS DRIVING THROUGH THOREAU AND I NOTICED A BURIAL CEREMONY GOING ON AND SO I PULLED OVER AND WENT OVER AND ASKED THE MOTHER OF THE DECEASED IF I COULD TAKE PICTURES AND SHE VERY KINDLY SAID, "OF COURSE."

AND SO, THE SKY WAS DARK AND BROODING AND IT JUST POURED RAIN, THE ATMOSPHERE WAS JUST SO SOMBER AND THE MOOD OF THE PEOPLE WAS SO SOMBER ALSO AND SO I THOUGHT I SORT OF CAPTURED THE MOOD OF THE WHOLE EXPERIENCE OF BEING OUT ON THE NAVAJO NATION DURING THIS TIME WHEN THERE WAS SO MUCH COVID SUFFERING GOING ON.

>>LORENE: WELL AND THE CASKET BEING MADE OF PLASTIC AND THIS IS NOT GOING TO DISINTEGRATE AND IT IS GOING TO BE THERE FOREVER AND YOU HAD ORIGINALLY THOUGHT THAT IT MIGHT BE COVID CONTAINMENT.

>>DON: YES, THAT IS WHAT I THOUGHT, BUT I ACTUALLY SENT THE PICTURE TO A FUNERAL HOME AND HE SAID, NO, THAT SOME PEOPLE IN SOME PLACES DO THAT FOR EXPENSE OR FOR CONVENIENCE, THEY JUST USE A BIG BOX.

>>LORENE: WELL WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH DON USNER AND AMONG OTHER THINGS YOU CALL YOURSELF A CULTURAL GEOGRAPHER AND SO I JUST WANT TO TAKE A MINUTE TO LOOK BACK AT SOME OF YOUR OTHER WORK.

SO WHAT IS A CULTURAL GEOGRAPHER AND YOUR ROOTS IN CHIMAYO FOR EXAMPLE GO BACK THREE HUNDRED YEARS AND SOME OF THE MOST CHARMING THINGS YOU HAVE WRITTEN TO ME ARE THESE BOOKS ABOUT CHIMAYO.

SO WHAT IS A CULTURAL GEOGRAPHER AND TELL ME A LITTLE ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO CHIMAYO AND SOME OF THE BOOKS YOU HAVE WRITTEN.

>>DON: WELL I GREW UP SPENDING QUITE A BIT OF TIME IN CHIMAYO WITH MY GRANDMOTHER.

WE LIVED IN LOS ALAMOS AND I THINK THIS IS WHERE I FIRST GOT THE INFATUATION OR THE ENJOYMENT OF STEPPING OUT OF MY CULTURAL FRAME AND STEPPING INTO ANOTHER.

BECAUSE IT WAS COMPLETELY LIKE NIGHT AND DAY BETWEEN LOS ALAMOS AND CHIMAYO WHERE PEOPLE AT THAT TIME WERE STILL SPEAKING PRIMARILY SPANISH AND THE AGRICULTURE WAS VERY ACTIVE.

THE OLD ARCHITECTURE WAS STILL PRETTY INTACT, AND THE LANGUAGE AND STORIES WERE VERY MUCH REFLECTIVE OF ANOTHER TIME AND PLACE, IT WAS LIKE STEPPING INTO ANOTHER WORLD AND I LOVED IT, I LOVED THE CONNECTION OF THE PEOPLE TO THE LANDSCAPE AND TO EACH OTHER.

IT WAS SO CONTRARY TO EVERYTHING ABOUT LOS ALAMOS WHERE THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN THE PEOPLE AND THE LAND AND NO HISTORY AND NO CONNECTION TO EACH OTHER.

AND SO FROM A VERY YOUNG AGE I WAS TAKEN WITH MY GRANDMOTHER AND HER FAMILY AND HER RELATIVES AND MY MOTHER AND THE WAY THEY GATHER AND VISIT AND SHARE FOOD AND TELL STORIES AND I WAS COMPELLED TO REALLY AT A VERY YOUNG AGE TO START WRITING THEM DOWN, IN FACT I FOUND A PAPER IN MY FILES SOMEWHERE IT WAS FROM I THINK IT WAS HIGH SCHOOL AND I WAS DOING THE SAME THING I AM DOING NOW.

I WAS COLLECTING STORIES, WRITING THEM DOWN AND TRYING TO POINT OUT THAT THERE IS THIS INCREDIBLY RICH, RESOURCE THERE OF PEOPLE WITH SO MUCH TO OFFER ABOUT PLACE AND RELATIONSHIP.

>>LORENE: SO, THIS SABINO'S MAP , WHO IS SABINO?

>>DON: SABINO WAS A NEIGHBOR, NOT A RELATIVE AND I BARELY KNEW HIM, HE LIVED ACROSS THE STREET FROM MY GRANDMOTHER AND HIS WIFE, AMELITA, I BECAME VERY CLOSE WITH, BUT IT JUST SO HAPPENED THAT SABINO HE WAS RAISED ON THE OLD PLAZA IN CHIMAYO AND HE WORKED AT THE FOLK ART MUSEUM.

AND PEOPLE AT THE FOLK ART MUSEUM HAD HEARD SOME OF HIS STORIES AND THEY ENCOURAGED HIM TO DRAW A MAP OF THE OLD PLAZA BECAUSE IT IS SUCH A REMARKABLE PLACE.

IT IS THE LAST INTACT AND MOST INTACT SPANISH COLONIAL PLAZA LEFT ANYWHERE.

SO HE DREW THIS MAP NOTING ALL THE LOCATIONS OF THE BUILDINGS, THE FAMILIES WHO LIVED THERE, THE IRRIGATION DITCHES AND HE MADE LOTS OF LITTLE CURIOUS NOTES ON IT.

I CAME ACROSS THAT MAP WHEN I WAS JUST STARTING MY MASTER'S THESIS ON CHIMAYO AND CULTURAL GEOGRAPHY AND YOU ASKED WHAT CULTURAL GEOGRAPHERS DO, WELL, THEY LOOK AT MAPS THAT RELATE TO CULTURAL PHENOMENON AND DISTRIBUTION AND RELATIONS BETWEEN PEOPLE AND LANDSCAPES.

SO ALL OF A SUDDEN I HAD THE PERFECT TOOL FOR MY PROJECT IN THIS MAP THAT SABINO DREW AND IT BECAME THE BASIS FOR MY MASTER'S THESIS AND A BOOK, A REAL TREASURE.

>>LORENE: WE HAVE TO MOVE ALONG, I JUST WANT A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS ABOUT CHIMAYO.

>>DON: OKAY.

>>LORENE: YOU HAD A BOOK OF DICHOS.

DICHOS ARE THESE REALLY CONCISE WONDERFUL STATEMENTS, LITTLE APHORISMS.

>>DON: YES.

>>LORENE: AND YOU ALSO HAVE ABOUT YOUR GRANDMOTHER, BENIGNA'S CHIMAYO, FULL OF HER FOLKTALES, WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL STORIES.

BUT I WANT YOU TO MENTION, SO CHIMAYO HAS AN EXTRAORDINARY PLAZA, IT IS NOT LIKE ANYTHING ELSE AND THERE ARE MOVEMENTS THERE TO REHABILITATE IT, RIGHT?

>>DON: YES, I AM ON THE BOARD OF THE CHIMAYO CULTURAL PRESERVATION ASSOCIATION, WHICH WAS FOUNDED THE SAME YEAR THAT SABINO'S MAP WAS PUBLISHED.

WE HAD AN OPENING FOR THE MUSEUM AND THE BOOK SIGNING, SO THAT IS 26 OR 27 YEARS AGO NOW AND WE HAVE BEEN DEVOTING OUR TIME INTO DEVELOPING THE MUSEUM AND GRADUALLY TO BEGINNING TO RESTORE THE OLD PLAZA.

AND IT IS A REALLY BEAUTIFUL EFFORT INVOLVING A LOT OF PEOPLE AND A REAL DEDICATED BOARD AND WE HAVE A MUSEUM THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD SEE.

>>LORENE: I WANT TO, YES.

>>DON: YES, I WANT TO BRING YOU THERE, IT IS A REAL SPECIAL PLACE.

>>LORENE: OH, GOOD, GOOD.

SO BECAUSE WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, I WANT TO GO TO ANOTHER BOOK YOU DID IN CONJUNCTION WITH A HISTORY MUSEUM EXHIBIT ABOUT LOWRIDERS.

IT WAS SO MUCH FUN AND PEOPLE LOVED THESE PHOTOGRAPHS.

SO, YOU WROTE AN ESSAY ABOUT THE HISTORY AND THE CULTURE OF LOWRIDERS, WE HAVE LOWRIDER PARADES ON THE PLAZA, LOW AND SLOW: BAJITO Y SUAVECITO.

AND THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT YOU TOOK, I HOPE YOU HAVE THAT BOOK?

>>DON: I DO HAVE A COPY.

>>LORENE: WE COULD LOOK AT A COUPLE OF THEM REAL QUICK AS IT MAKES PEOPLE SO HAPPY.

>>DON: WELL, I HAVEN'T EVEN OPENED THIS ONE AND THE PLASTIC IS STILL ON.

>>LORENE: WELL, THAT IS ALRIGHT.

>>DON: I WILL, YOU KEEP TALKING.

>>LORENE: ALRIGHT AND SO IN MAY I THINK IT IS A LOWRIDER DAY ON THE SANTA FE PLAZA BUT IN ESPANOLA, THE LOWRIDER CAPITAL OF THE WORLD, YOU KNOW, THAT IS JUST PEOPLE GO THERE ON SATURDAY NIGHT, FRIDAY NIGHT, IT IS JUST AMAZING.

>>DON: YES.

>>LORENE: AND YOU TALK ABOUT IT IN YOUR ESSAY HOW PEOPLE WENT FROM THE "RANFLAS," WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, AN OLD BEAT UP TRUCK?

>>DON: AN OLD BEAT UP CAR, YEAH.

>>LORENE: TO SHOW CARS, I MEAN TUCK AND ROLL UPHOLSTERY AND JUST BEAUTIFULLY DONE, PAINTED JUST ALMOST LITTLE WORKS OF ART.

AND WHILE YOU ARE DOING THAT I AM GOING TO TELL A STORY.

SO YOU WERE AT COLLECTED WORKS BOOKSTORE IN SANTA FE, AND YOU WERE DOING A BOOK SIGNING ON THIS BOOK AND WE ARE ALL SITTING THERE, YOU KNOW, THE BOOKLOVERS OF SANTA FE AND THIS BEAUTIFUL BOOKSTORE AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE LOWRIDERS AND THEN SUDDENLY A MAN STOOD UP AND WALKED OVER TO YOU WHILE YOU WERE AT YOUR PRESENTATION AND SAID, "I REALLY WANT TO THANK YOU."

AND HE WAS WITH HIS TWELVE-YEAR-OLD SON.

HE SAID, "YOU HAVE MADE ME PROUD OF WHAT I DO, I HAVE A LOWRIDER, I BUILD LOWRIDERS AND NOBODY HAS EVER HONORED THIS AS AN ART FORM."

AND YOU HANDLED IT SO BEAUTIFULLY, YOU GAVE HIM THE BOOK.

>>DON: YES.

>>LORENE: AND WE WERE JUST WITH TEARS IN OUR EYES, THE DIGNITY AND THE HONOR YOU GAVE HIM BY HONORING THIS OBSCURE CULTURAL ART FORM.

>>DON: WELL THAT IS ONE OF THE HIGH POINTS OF ALL MY WRITING AND PHOTOGRAPHY CAREERS IS TO SEE HIM STEP UP, HE TOOK THE MICROPHONE FROM ME.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>DON: AND HE BEGAN TO WEEP AND TO ME IT WAS YOU KNOW A VERIFICATION THAT EVERYTHING I WAS DOING WAS THE RIGHT THING.

>>LORENE: AN ABSOLUTE VALIDATION.

>>DON: VALIDATION.

>>LORENE: AND WE KNEW IT, EVERYONE IN THE AUDIENCE KNEW IT TOO, IT WAS LIKE THIS REALLY MAGICAL MOMENT WHERE YOU HAD REACHED OUT AND CHANGED SOMEBODY'S LIFE.

>>DON: THAT HAPPENS OCCASIONALLY, THAT WAS ONE OF THE MOST DRAMATIC EXAMPLES, BUT THAT STILL HAPPENS TO ME.

>>LORENE: IT WAS STILL DRAMATIC.

>>DON: IT STILL HAPPENS SOMETIMES WITH PEOPLE I MEET AND... >>LORENE: CAN YOU SHOW US A COUPLE OF PICTURES?

>>DON: YES, I CAN, I WILL MAKE IT HERE.

>>LORENE: OKAY, SURE.

>>DON: YEAH AND THIS IS A JOINT EFFORT WITH A LOT OF PHOTOGRAPHERS REPRESENTED IN THE BOOK, NOT JUST ME.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>DON: AND KATE WARE WROTE A WONDERFUL ESSAY.

>>LORENE: AND SHE IS HEAD OF PHOTOGRAPHY FOR THE MUSEUM OF NEW MEXICO, I LOVE HER.

IT WAS A COLLABORATION OF A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>>DON: YES.

>>LORENE: BUT PEOPLE LOVE LOWRIDERS, THERE IS JUST NO WAY AROUND IT, YOU KNOW.

IT IS WHEN THE HYDRAULIC ENGINEERING MET THE AUTOMOBILE CULTURE.

LOOK AT THAT, WE WILL HAVE TO DO A CLOSE UP OF THAT, BUT THAT IS "BAJITO Y SUAVECITO."

THAT IS LOW AND SLOW.

>>DON: YEAH, TO ME IT WAS AN EYE-OPENING EXPERIENCE AGAIN OF FINDING OUT ABOUT THIS CULTURE I HAD GROWN UP AROUND IN THE MID AND NEVER REALLY LEARNED TO APPRECIATE AND EMBRACE AND NOW I DO AND IT IS AN INCREDIBLE COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE AND THIS IS NOT MY PICTURE.

>>LORENE: OH, THIS IS SO WONDERFUL.

>>DON: THAT IS NOT MY PICTURE BUT IT IS... >>LORENE: BUT IT FABULOUS.

>>DON: YES, SO IT IS, THIS ONE IS ONE OF MINE, IT IS AN ONGOING PROJECT, I AM INVOLVED WITH THE ESPANOLA LOWRIDER MUSEUM PROJECT RIGHT NOW AND WE HOPE TO PULL THAT OFF IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

>>LORENE: SO, I AM GOING TO STEP BACK INTO YOUR BACKGROUND A LITTLE BIT FURTHER.

SO YOU WERE BORN IN EMBUDO BUT YOU GREW UP IN LOS ALAMOS AND CHIMAYO.

YOU HAVE DEGREES IN ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES, YOU HAVE A MASTER'S IN GEOGRAPHY AND TO SEE WHERE THIS HAS LED YOU IS REALLY EXTRAORDINARY.

WHEN YOU GET VALIDATION LIKE THAT LOWRIDER GUY SAYING, MY GOSH FOR THE FIRST TIME SOMEBODY GETS ME, YOU KNOW, IT JUST...ANOTHER THING, WE HAVE WORKED TOGETHER A LOT BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN THE OFFICIAL PHOTOGRAPHER FOR THE LANNAN FOUNDATION'S EXTRAORDINARY, OH I MISS THEM SO MUCH, THEY HAVE DONE FOR TWENTY-TWO YEARS YOU WERE THEIR PHOTOGRAPHER FOR THEIR SERIES OF READINGS AND CONVERSATIONS, GORE VIDAL, MARGARET ATWOOD, AND ISABEL ALLENDE, AND NAOMI KLEIN, YOU KNOW JUST SO MANY EXTRAORDINARY MINDS OF OUR TIMES.

AND YOU WERE SO GIFTED WITH BLACK AND WHITE, YOU DO THESE INTIMATE, INTIMATE PORTRAITS OF EVERYONE FROM A GRIEVING HOMELESS WOMAN TO GORE VIDAL AND MARGARET ATWOOD, IT IS ALWAYS THAT UNJUDGMENTAL PERCEPTIVE EYE WITH WHICH YOU TAKE THE PHOTOGRAPHS.

SO TELL US WHAT IT ALL MEANS.

>>DON: WELL, I JUST TAKE GREAT PLEASURE IN THAT HUMAN INTERACTION THAT TAKING A PHOTOGRAPH IS, IT IS KIND OF AN INTIMATE EXCHANGE AND IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO REACH SOMEBODY IN A WAY IT MIGHT TAKE A LONG TIME IN A CONVERSATION, BUT YOU QUICKLY HAVE A MEANS OF WORKING TOGETHER TO COMMUNICATE AND TO SHARE A MOMENT.

SO ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT IT FOR ME IS WHETHER IT IS A WELL-KNOWN WRITER OR IT IS SOMEBODY HOMELESS ON THE STREET, IT IS STILL A HUMAN INTERACTION, YOU ARE STILL LEARNING ABOUT SOMEBODY ELSE AND HONORING THEM AND RECOGNIZING THEM FOR WHO THEY ARE.

AND I GET GREAT PLEASURE IN THAT, I TAKE GREAT PLEASURE.

>>LORENE: I FEEL IT ONLY FAIR TO REPRESENT THE LANDSCAPE IN THIS CONVERSATION BECAUSE YOU HAVE ANOTHER BOOK ABOUT TO COME OUT ABOUT THE VALLES CALDERA: A NEW VISION AND JUST SHOW US, THIS IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE NOR IS IT HUMAN INTERACTION, IT IS JUST STUNNINGLY BEAUTIFUL.

>>DON: WELL THIS IS THE SECOND EDITION I HAVE WORKED ON IT.

BILL DEBUYS AND I HAVE DONE THIS TOGETHER AND WE HAVE EACH WRITTEN ESSAYS FOR IT.

AND THE SECOND EDITION, IS POST TWO HUGE FIRES AND SO IT IS A NEW PORTFOLIO OF PHOTOGRAPHS IN ADDITION TO THE OLD ONES AND THE NEW PORTFOLIO IS ALL BLACK AND WHITE SO IT IS CALLED A NEW VISION BECAUSE IT IS GOT A WHOLE PORTFOLIO OF BLACK AND WHITE PHOTOS, THESE ARE THE PAGE PROOFS, THE BOOK WILL BE HERE WITHIN A WEEK OR TWO.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS, I AM SO GLAD THAT WE GOT TO TALK ABOUT IT.

>>DON: YES, AND HERE IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT KIND OF PHOTOGRAPHY.

>>LORENE: THAT HAS TO GO VERTICAL.

>>DON: OH, YEAH.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

OH, LOOK AT THE WATER SHOTS, THE SHADOWS, BEAUTIFULLY DONE.

>>DON: YEAH, I HAVE A REAL LOVE OF LANDSCAPE AS WELL, SO AND THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION I DON'T THINK.

>>LORENE: OH, NOT AT ALL, NOT AT ALL.

SO I AM SO HAPPY YOU CAME.

AGAIN, THESE PHOTOGRAPHS TOUCHED ME SO DEEPLY WHEN I SAW THEM AND I FELT THAT YOU HAD OPENED THE DOOR TO A WHOLE OTHER PART OF THE EXPERIENCE OF NEW MEXICANS DURING THE PANDEMIC THAT WE DON'T ORDINARILY GET TO SEE.

IT IS A TREMENDOUS GIFT TO US AND TO THOSE PEOPLE TO HAVE THEIR STORIES TOLD.

>>DON: THANK YOU SO MUCH, LORENE, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR INTEREST.

>>LORENE: WELL OUR GUEST TODAY IS DON USNER, PHOTOJOURNALIST, PHOTOGRAPHER, WRITER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING YOUR WORK WITH US TODAY.

>>DON: THANK YOU, LORENE, THE PLEASURE IS MINE.

>>LORENE: YES AND THE PLEASURE IS MINE.

I AM LORENE MILLS AND I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM