>>> "DONNYBROOK" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION, AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> HEY, IT'S TOO HOT FOR CHARLIE BRENNAN NOT ONLY IN THIS STUDIO BUT OUTSIDE.

WHAT'S UP WITH THE WEATHER?

WELCOME TO "DONNYBROOK".

ALVIN REID SITTING IN FOR CHARLIE BRENNAN THIS WEEK AND ON OUR PANEL THIS WEEK IS WENDY WIESE FROM KTRS.

ONE OF OUR FOUNDERS, BILL McCLELLAN, WHEREABOUTS UNKNOWN FOR THE LAST FEW WEEKS, WELCOME BACK MY MAN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ANOTHER FOUNDER, RAY HARTMANN, NOTED COLUMNIST AROUND THE WORLD AND SITTING IN TECHNICALLY FOR CHARLIE BUT IN MY SEAT IS SARAH FENSKE, WHO IS PART OF THE MAJOR CONGLOMERATE THAT PUTS OUT THE "RIVERFRONT TIMES."

WELCOME.

YOU ALWAYS TEND TO PUT US TO SHAME.

CHECK OUT THE FIBER MIXED MEDIA FROM JACQUELINE PRUITT CHECK IT OUT AT ATHREADOFINSANITY.COM.

THIS SHOW IS DEFINITELY A THREAD OF INSANITY.

WE'LL START WITH YOU, OUR TWO REPUBLICAN ATTORNEY GENERAL CANDIDATES SEEM TO BE DODGING THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THEY WOULD PROSECUTE A WOMAN IN MISSOURI IF SHE DID OBTAIN AN ABORTION.

SHOULD THEY HAVE TO ANSWER THIS TYPE OF QUESTION OR IS THE IDEA TO GET INTO OFFICE?

>> OUR EXPERTS ARE CONVINCED THERE'S ENOUGH WIGGLE ROOM IN THIS LAW THAT A CERTAIN SORT OF ATTORNEY GENERAL OR PROSECUTOR, IF THE AG SAYS IT'S OKAY COULD CHARGE A WOMAN THE WAY THIS IS WRITTEN, SHE COULD FACE CRIMINAL CHARGES IF SHE HAS AN ABORTION SO OUR REPORTERS PUT IT TO THESE TWO CANDIDATES, WOULD YOU PROSECUTE THESE PEOPLE?

DO YOU BELIEVE THE LAW READS THIS WAY?

THEY DECLINED TO ANSWER.

WE KEPT CALLING AND EMAILING AND WE REACHED OUT MULTIPLE WAYS, DIDN'T WANT TO SAY A THING ABOUT IT.

I THINK IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION.

I CAN SEE MAYBE THEY DON'T WANT TO ANSWER.

I SUSPECT THEIR BASE MIGHT BE MORE ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT THIS PROSPECT THAN EITHER OF THEM ARE GOING TO BE BUT THEY SHOULD BE ON THE RECORD SO VOTERS KNOW HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT THIS.

>> DID YOU ASK IF THEY WOULD CHARGE A DOCTOR?

>> WE SPECIFICALLY WERE JUST ASKING ABOUT THE WOMEN AND SINCE WE NEVER HEARD BACK, WE COULDN'T ASK ANY FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS.

SO YES.

>> IT'S AN INTERESTING RACE, IN THAT WILL SCHARF IS YOUNG AND BRIGHT AND IVY LEAGUE AND KIND OF THE NEW REPUBLICAN, WORKED FOR ERIC WRIGHT AND ANDREW BAILEY COMES FROM THE GOOD OL' BOY CLASS, APPOINTED BY MIKE PARSON, AND I THINK WILL SCHF MIGHT BE THE MOST DANGEROUS TO PEOPLE LIKE ME BUT ANDREW BAILEY WAS THE FELLOW, ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE IN STATE GOVERNMENT WHO WHEN MIKE PARSON WENT AFTER JOSH TH MENARD, OUR COMPUTER REPORTER WHEN HE FOUND A DEFECT IN THE BOARD OF EDUCATION WEBSITE AND ALLOWED PEOPLE TO SEE THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS OF TEACHERS AND JOSH CALLED THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, NOTIFIED THEM, THEY TOOK THE WEBSITE DOWN BEFORE HE WROTE HIS STORY AND THE GOVERNOR TOOK IT ALL PERSONALLY AND CLAIMED THAT THIS WAS CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR, THAT ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE IN STATE GOVERNMENT WHO SAID, YES, IF THE GOVERNOR'S ANGRY, I'M ANGRY, WAS BAILEY, AND SO I MEAN, I JUST DON'T TRUST ANDREW BAILEY AT ALL.

>> IT'S REALLY INTERESTING, BECAUSE I THINK EVEN PEOPLE WHO ARE PRO-LIFE ARE VERY, VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THIS IDEA OF PROSECUTING WOMEN, AND SO YES, I THINK THAT IS GOING TO BE A VERY -- IT'S GOING TO BE A VALID QUESTION GOING FORWARD AND KUDOS TO WHOEVER IS ABLE TO GET THE ANSWER OUT OF EITHER CANDIDATE, RIGHT?

>> YES, YOU KNOW IT'S INTERESTING, THE PEOPLE WHO PUSH THIS LAW, I THINK THEY WANTED TO WRITE IT IN A WAY THAT WOULD SUGGEST A WOMAN COULDN'T BE PROSECUTED FOR IT BUT IN THE WAY THAT THE LAWS ARE LIKE SAUSAGES AND IT'S ALL VERY UGLY AND MESSY BEHIND THE SCENES, THEY UNFORTUNATELY SAID A WOMAN COULDN'T BE CHARGED WITH CONSPIRACY FOR THIS, BUT THEY DIDN'T SPELL OUT THAT SHE COULDN'T FACE ANY CRIMINAL CHARGES.

THEY LEFT THAT DOOR OPEN.

>> CONGRATULATIONS TO THE RFT, NOT THAT I WOULD BE BIASED BUT AT THE ARE, FT, BEEN WRITING FOR DECADES ABOUT THIS AND IT'S THE UNBELIEVABLE HYPOCRISY.

TAKE THEIR WORDS AT FACE VALUE.

THEY SAY THAT AN ABORTION IS A MURDER.

BY SAYING -- BY REFUSING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY -- THE WOMAN N THE, IN THEIR SCENARIO, IS THE PERSON WHO COMES UP WITH THE IDEA FOR THE MURDER, PLANS IT, AND PAYS THE HITMAN, OKAY?

THAT PERSON DOES ALL THOSE THINGS, IN THEIR VERNACULAR, OF MURDER.

HOW ON EARTH CAN THAT PERSON NOT BE PROSECUTED IN THAT CONTEXT?

IT SHOWS HOW DISINGENUOUS THE ENTIRE RHETORIC IS, AND I RESPECT PEOPLE AND CERTAINLY THE RIGHT OF ANYONE WHO WOULD NEVER HAVE AN ABORTION, THAT'S FINE.

THAT'S WHY I'M PRO-CHOICE, NOT PRO-ABORTION, BUT THE POINT IS, IT'S JUST, IT'S ABSOLUTELY LOGICALLY INDEFENSIBLE TO CALL THIS MURDER, BUT TO CLAIM THAT THE PERSON WHO ARRANGES IT AND PAYS FOR IT IS SOMEHOW, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE A VICTIM.

A VICTIM OF WHO?

YOU KNOW?

IT'S JUST UNBELIEVABLE.

>> YOU SAID IT BETTER THAN I COULD, BECAUSE I WAS LIKE, HOW COULD YOU NOT INVOLVE THE WOMAN THAT DID IT?

THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING ABOUT THE DOCTOR OR THE HOSPITAL OR -- I -- THAT PART I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

I THOUGHT THEY WERE ALL -- >> WE'RE SEEING SOME INCIDENTS IN OTHER STATES WOMEN HAVE STILLBIRTH OR A MISCARRIAGE AND BEING CHARGED FOR WHAT HAPPENED.

IT'S NOT UNPRECEDENTED TO SEE A WOMAN CHARGED IN THIS AND CERTAINLY IN THE PAST WE'VE SEEN PLENTY OF DOCTORS CHARGED FOR IT.

>> AND WORSE.

>> YES.

>> SOME OF THEM WERE KILLED.

>> THIS WILL PLAY OUT ESPECIALLY WITH THE ELECTION SEASON COMING UP.

>> VOTERS WILL HAVE A CHOICE ON THIS.

THERE'S ALSO SEVERAL DEMOCRATS THAT ARE GOING TO THROW THEIR HAND IN THE RACE.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS ENOUGH FOR A DEMOCRAT TO TRULY HAVE A CHANCE IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI BUT I THINK A DEMOCRAT WOULD DO BETTER BECAUSE THEY AT LEAST HAVE ONE ISSUE RUNNING FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL THAT COULD HELP YOU OUT.

>> I JUST WISH WE HAD MORE OF A HISTORY OF VOTERS VOTING THEIR CHOICES RATHER THAN WHAT THEY BELIEVE, RATHER THAN PARTY LINES.

THE REPUBLICANS STAND FOR MANY THINGS THAT THE VOTERS DO NOT, BUT PEOPLE SAY WELL I'M NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT, SO GO FIGURE.

>> WELL IT DEPENDS ON THE DEMOCRAT, I THINK.

>> YES, SPEAKING OF WHICH!

KIM GARDNER HAS AN OPPONENT, DAVID MUELLER, IF I'M PRONOINSING IT CORRECTLY, LOCAL ATTORNEY GOING TO THROW HIS HAT IN THE RING FOR THE CIRCUIT TEERN'S OFFICE, COMING IN THE WEEK KIM GARDNER RESPONDED TO ANDREW BAILEY, SAID ATTORNEY GENERAL IN RESPONSE TO HIS TRYING TO OUT HER FROM HER OFFICE.

I THINK THAT KIM GARDNER COULD LOSE THE PRIMARY TO THE RIGHT CANDIDATE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE RIGHT CANDIDATE.

WENDY, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK IT WILL HAVE TO BE A BLACK CANDIDATE.

I DO.

I THINK -- >> I AGREE WITH YOU, BEFORE YOU START THROWING STUFF AT THE TV AMERICA, I AGREE.

>> DAVID MUELLER HAS SOME TERRIFIC BONA FIDES.

HE GREW UP IN NORMANDY.

HE WENT TO ST. LOUIS UNIVERSITY HIGH SCHOOL, BUT WHAT APPARENTLY IS THE CATALYST FOR HIS INVOLVEMENT HERE WAS A CASE INVOLVING SOMEBODY NAMED LEVI HENNING, AND THE CASE WENT SOUTH QUICKLY, AND HE SEES THE MALPRACTICE GOING ON IN THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, AND HE WANTS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

I HAVE SORT HAVE BEEN IN THE CAMP THAT IF KIM GARDNER WANTS TO STAY IN THE JOB, IT'S HERS TO LOSE.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT'S HERS, BUT NOW IT SEEMS THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING THAT IF YOU HAVE THE RIGHT CANDIDATE, SHE COULD BE PRIMARIED OUT.

>> I THINK THERE ARE ALSO PEOPLE WORKING VERY HARD BEHIND THE SCENES TO MAKE SURE THAT SHE DOESN'T RUN AGAIN.

SHE WAS QUOTED AT THE THIS CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM ROUNDTABLE THAT SHE HELD WHICH SEEMED TO BE LARGELY ABOUT HER OWN POLITICAL FUTURE BUT SHE DID SAY THERE THAT SHE WAS GOING TO RUN AGAIN.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO SUPPORTED HER LAST TIME WHO ARE SAYING WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, AND WHAT WOULD IT TAKE, KIM, FOR YOU NOT TO RUN AGAIN, BECAUSE THEY SEE THE CHAOS AND DISORGANIZATION IN THAT OFFICE.

THEY DON'T WANT THE STATE TO TAKE IT OVER.

THEY DO BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY THAT THIS SHOULD BE UP TO THE PEOPLE OF ST. LOUIS AND THEY CAN'T JUST GO AHEAD AND REMOVE OUR ELECTED PROSECUTOR, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO BE TRYING REALLY HARD NOT ONLY TO GET HER NOT TO RUN BUT FIND A QUALIFIED BLACK ATTORNEY WHO WOULD LIKE THIS JOB AND MAKE A CASE THEY COULD DO A BETTER JOB.

>> MAYBE IF JASON HALL GETS SOME BUSINESSMEN TO GIVE $1 MILLION TO PROJECT INNOCENCE WITH THE STIPULATION THAT PROJECT INNOCENCE HIRES KIM GARDNER, AND GIVES HER SOME KIND OF TITLE, MAYBE SHE WOULD DO THAT, BECAUSE SHE SEEMS HAPPIER HELPING PEOPLE GET OUT OF PRISON THAN PUTTING THEM IN PRISON.

>> YES.

WHICH IS AT ODDS WITH -- >> BUT WE NEED A PROSECUTOR WHO WANTS TO GET SOMEBODY IN THERE.

>> SO IS YOUR FAITH RESTED IN THE OLIGARCHS, YOU'RE OPENING THEY'LL COME THROUGH?

>> VERY MACHIAVELLIAN.

I LOVE THAT.

>> I WROTE A COLUMN BEFORE I WENT ON MY THREE-WEEK VIE INDICATION.

>> SABBATICAL.

>> SABBATICAL, SUGGESTING HOW WE COULD DO THAT.

I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT YOU GUYS WOULD HAVE PICKED UP THE BALL BY NOW AND I WOULD COME BACK AND DOCTRINE -- >> PROBLEM SOLVED.

>> -- HAVE PAULA BRYANT RUNNING THE OFFICE.

>> TERRIFIC FEDERAL JUDGE, THERE FOR LIFE, WHY WOULD HE WANT THIS JOB?

WITH A LOT OF OTHER GOOD ATTORNEYS, GABE GORE DOESN'T WANT TO BE ST. LOUIS CIRCUIT ATTORNEY.

IT'S SUCH A HORRIBLE, HARD JOB, EVEN WHEN JENNIFER JOYCE WAS DOING IT.

IT'S GOTTEN WORSE.

>> I MENTIONED REGGIE HARRIS, TOO.

NONE OF THEM WANT TO DO THIS, BUT THIS IS LIKE A CIVIC THING, A TWO-YEAR -- >> IT'S THEIR DUTY.

>> WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO GET THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE BACK ON ITS FEET.

>> I'VE BEEN AS YOU ALL KNOW, PROBABLY THE LOUDEST DEFENDER AGAINST THE STATE TAKEOVER, DESCRIBED AS A CAMP, IT'S SORT OF A PUP TENT.

>> FOR ONE.

>> TO BE DEFENDING, BUT I THINK THERE'S A NUMBER OF ELEMENTS.

ONE IS, I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE IN TERM LIMITS FOR EXECUTIVE OFFICES, FOR REAL, AND I THINK A TWO-YEAR, AN EIGHT-YEAR TERM LIMIT ON THAT POSITION PROBABLY WOULD BE IN EVERYBODY'S INTERESTS AND SHE'LL HAVE SERVED EIGHT YEARS.

THERE'S THAT.

I DON'T HAVE ANY -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE'S GOING TO DO BUT YOU KNOW, I GENERALLY AGREE, AND I THINK THAT -- YOUR IDEA IS -- >> BRILLIANT.

>> BILL, YOU KNOW, I -- >> MY IDEA IS TO WEAR SHORTS IN THE SUMMER.

>> THAT'S TRUE BUT YOUR COLUMN IS HUMBLING TO THE REST OF US TO THE POINT WHERE I FEEL LIKE I COULDN'T -- >> DO YOU THINK SHE WOULD BE BOUGHT OUT OF HER OFFICE?

I DON'T.

I LITERALLY -- >> IF SHE CAN DO THE SAME KIND OF WORK THAT SHE WANTS TO DO IN TERMS OF CHANGING THE SYSTEM, SOMEWHERE ELSE FOR PERHAPS MORE LUCRATIVE REMUNERATION, I THINK SHE PROBABLY WOULD.

>> PEOPLE ARE PRAISEWORTHY ABOUT HER FOR THE LAMAR JOHNSON CASE.

>> WELL, SHE -- >> SHE COULD DO THAT FULL-TIME.

>> LET'S ALL -- >> I DON'T KNOW WHETHER SHE'D TAKE THAT OR NOT.

>> I'M JUST THROWING IT OUT THERE.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

>> WE ALL HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHAT IS OUR NEXT JOB AND I UNDERSTAND THAT FOR A POLITICIAN.

SHE DOESN'T COME FROM A WEALTHY BACKGROUND SO YEAH, IF THERE WERE A SAFE LANDING TO WORK ON ISSUES IMPORTANT TO HER, SHE COULD TRAVEL THE COUNTRY GIVING SPEECHES HOW THE REPUBLICANS IN JEFF CITY TRIED TO STOP HER.

>> SHE IS PART OF A REFORM PROSECUTING MOVEMENT THAT WAS TARGETED BY PEOPLE WHO DON'T APPRECIATE THEIR MESSAGE AND SHE'S NOT LIKE ALONE IN THIS.

THERE'S ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE WHO RESPECT HER WITHIN THAT MOVEMENT GREATLY, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S ABOUT BEING BOUGHT OUT OF YOUR JOB AS MUCH AS I HONESTLY MEANT WHAT I SAID.

I DON'T THINK THAT A CIRCUIT ATTORNEY, A PROSECUTOR SHOULD BE -- YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY IN ST. LOUIS, I THINK YOU'RE BETTER OFF WITH THOSE KINDS OF POSITIONS BEING A TWO-YEAR, JUST LIKE GOVERNOR OR WHATEVER, MAYOR, THE SAME SHOULD APPLY TO MAYOR.

I THINK EIGHT YEARS IS PLENTY.

>> I AGREE, BUT -- >> SHE DOES BELIEVE -- >> DOES SHE SAY IN HER RESPONSE, DIDN'T SHE BASICALLY SAY AGAIN THAT NOT BEING GOOD AT THE JOB IS STILL NO REASON TO REMOVE HER FROM THE JOB?

>> YES.

>> THAT'S ILLEGAL.

>> LISTEN, TWO WEEKS AGO SHE SAID "DON'T WORRY, I'M RUNNING AGAIN" AND IF SHE DOESN'T RUN AGAIN AND ENDS UP IN A JOB LIKE THAT THAT'S GOING TO PAY HER SOME EXORBITANT AMOUNT OF MONEY SHE GOT BOUGHT OUT OF OFFICE.

I'M NOT SAYING I WOULDN'T GET BOUGHT OUT OF OFFICE FOR HALF OF WHAT SHE WOULD GET BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT IT WOULD BE THE MONEY TALKING, NOT THE PRINCIPAL.

>> I DON'T AGREE.

SARAH SAID THERE ARE MANY PURSUITS -- KIM GARDNER IS, DESPITE EVERYTHING EVERYBODY SAID ABOUT HER A SINCERE -- I'M JUST SAYING IN GENERAL, THE PUBLIC VIEWS HER THROUGH THIS PRISM OF SOMEHOW BEING PRO-CRIMINAL.

NOBODY IN THIS PANEL BUT I'M JUST SAYING -- NO I'M NOT SAYING THAT.

I'M SAYING THAT SHE IS SOMEBODY WHO GENUINELY CARES ABOUT RACIAL JUSTICE, AND THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

AND I THINK SHE COULD FIND WORK DOING THAT WITH HER BACKGROUND THAT WOULDN'T BE A MATTER OF BEING BOUGHT OFF.

THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING.

>> OKAY.

>> I'M NOT SAYING -- >> I WANT TO SAY ONE LAST THING ON RAY'S POINT ABOUT TERM LIMITS.

I THINK TERM LIMITS FOR THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WLD BE A TERRIBLE IDEA.

I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THESE JOBS WHSOMEWHAT LIKE MAYOR THERE'S A STEEP LEARNING CURVE.

I WANT TO GET SOMEBODY IN THERE TO ORGANIZE AND CLEAN UP THAT OFFICE AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO TAKE EIGHT YEARS.

>> I'LL STICK TO MY GUNS WITH MAYOR WE'VE HAD THE EXPERIENCE IN THIS TOWN THERE OUGHT TO BE EIGHT-YEAR TERM LIMITS ON MAYORS TOO.

>> WHO IS NOT PRO-CRIMINAL, SOME OF THE JUDGES AROUND HERE.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE BAIL, YOU IN JAIL AND QUITE FRANKLY, THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME.

RAY, GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

>> I DO VEIGH PROBLEM WITH THAT.

WE HAVE A SYSTEM WHICH YOU'RE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

THERE ARE TWO REASONS TO GRANT BAIL AND THEY'RE UNIVERSAL.

ONE IS IF YOU ARE A FLIGHT RISK, AND TWO IS IF YOU'RE A DANGER TO THE COMMUNITY.

NOW, THERE ARE CRIMES, FOR SURE, IN WHICH VIOLENT CRIMES WHERE SOMEBODY COULD BE SHOWN IF THEY'RE OUT TO BE A DANGER TO THE COMMUNITY AND THOSE PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE TO MAKE BAIL.

I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE AN ECONOMIC SYSTEM, IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU'RE A WEALTHY PERSON WHO HAS KILLED SOMEBODY OR SHOWN A PROCLIVITY TO, DRUNK DRIVING, WHATEVER IT IS, THAT'S A DANGER TO THE COMMUNITY.

THE STANDARD FOR YOU SHOULD BE THE SAME AS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T HAVE ANY MONEY, BUT THAT'S WHY, BUT THE CASH BAIL SYSTEM BASICALLY MADE, YOU KNOW, CONFINEABLE CRIMINALS OUT OF EVERYBODY, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEIR CRIME WAS NONVIOLENT.

THAT'S NOT OUR SYSTEM.

YOU ARE NOT GUILTY WHEN CHARGED.

YOU ARE KEPT IN PRISON ONLY IF YOU'RE A FLIGHT RISK OR YOU'RE IN DANGER TO THE COMMUNITY.

FULL STOP.

>> THE DANGER TO THE COMMUNITY, RAY, IS KIND OF HARD TO DEFINE.

>> NO, IT ISN'T.

>> HOW CAN YOU SAY IT'S NOT?

>> THAT'S WHAT JUDGES ARE FOR.

>> I DIDN'T WANT TO SEE US CLOSE THE WORK HOUSE.

>> IT'S WHAT JUDGES ARE FOR.

THEY LOOK AT THAT.

>> THAT'S WHAT THE JUDGES ARE DOING NOW, RAY, LOOKING AT IT AND SAYING I THINK THIS PERSON IS A DANGER TO THE COMMUNITY, WE'RE GOING TO KEEP HIM IN.

>> THE STORY WE'RE RESPONDING TO, THIS WAS IN THE "RIVERFRONT TIMES" AND LOOKING AT A DRAMATIC INCREASE IN THE JAIL POPULATION AFTER THE JANAE EDMONDSON INCIDENT AND I THINK BEFORE THIS, THE DEFAULT IN ST. LOUIS WAS GETTING TO BE OKAY, WE SHOULD TRY TO FIND A WAY TO DO THIS WITHOUT CASH BAIL, BECAUSE THE MISSOURI SUPREME COURT SAID THIS IS THE NEW STANDARD.

I THINK THAT WAS A SEA CHANGE WAKE-UP MOMENT FOR SOME JUDGES WHERE THEY'RE LIKE WHOA, IF THIS PERSON IS JUST DRIVING ERRATICALLY, WHICH LET'S FACE IT, EVERYONE IN ST. LOUIS DOES AND THEY INJURE SOMEBODY, SUDDENLY MY NAME IS ON THE FRONT PAGE IN TERRIBLE CONTEXT, I THINK WE'VE SWUNG AROUND IN A WAY.

>> IT'S A PENDULUM.

>> I WORRY THEY'RE NOT INDIVIDUALLY WEIGHING THE CASE.

>> THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

MY POINT IS THAT'S THE PENDULUM AND THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT THE PENDULUM WENT TOO, I THINK WENT TOO FAR THE OTHER DIRECTION.

ALL THESE STORIES THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE COMMITTED CRIMES THAT SHOULD BE KEPT IN ARE GETTING OUT ON BAIL AND NO, IT'S NOT THE PROSECUTOR'S FAULT IN EVERY CASE.

THE POINT IS THIS, YOU CAN'T -- IT SHOULD BE INDEPENDENT OF YOUR FINANCIAL RESOURCES, AND IT'S GOT TO BE -- IT'S A PENDULUM AND GOT TO BE A BETTER MEDIUM IS ALL.

>> YOU SAY THAT THIS IS UP TO THE JUDGES.

>> IT IS.

>> RAY, THIS IS WHAT THE JUDGES ARE DOING.

THE STORY THAT SARAH IS TALKING ABOUT, THE JUDGES ARE LOOKING AT THIS AND GOING MAN, I DON'T WANT TO GET IN TROUBLE.

THIS PERSON MIGHT GET ME IN TROUBLE.

I'LL KEEP THE PERSON IN JAIL.

>> THEY'RE DEFOUGHTING TOO FAR.

BOTH WAYS, YOU CAN'T DO YOUR EXTREME.

>> YOU THINK OVERCORRECTING AFTER JANAE.

>> THEY WERE DOING IT -- >> LET'S GO BACK THREE MONTHS.LENIENT?

>> THAT'S MY UNDERSTAND.ING NOW THEY'RE OVERCOMPENSATING AND AGAIN, WE WERE TALKING IN GENERALITIES BUT YEAH, YOUR STORY POINTED OUT IT'S JUST AMAZING THAT ONCE THIS BECAME KIND OF EMBARRASSING TO THEM, ALL OF A SUDDEN WE'RE OVERFILLING THE JAILS BY BY THE WAY, NO ONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT THE FACT THE CONSEQUENCE OF OVERFILLING THE JAILS AND YOU SHOULD NOT BE CONFINED BECAUSE, A, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY, AND B, THE JUDGE IS WORRIED ABOUT COVERING THEIR YOU-KNOW-WHAT AND THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING.

>> OKAY.

I THINK IT MAKES SENSE, YOU KNOW, NOT THE NO MONEY BUSINESS BUT THAT THE JUDGES SHOULD WORRY ABOUT COVERING THEIR TAILS.

>> AND ALSO I MEAN -- >> IF THEY WERE LETTING PEOPLE OUT WHO OUGHT NOT BE OUT, MR. BAILEY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN OUT HERE AND HE WAS OUT REALLY, BECAUSE KIM GARDNER'S OFFICE WASN'T READY TO PROSECUTE HIM LAST SUMMER.

>> ALRIGHT, CHIEF TRACY IS THE ARM OF THE LAW, THAT'S AN ACTUAL SONG, IT'S DICK TRACY, NOT CHIEF TRACY BUT CHIEF TRACY ON THE JOB AND LAUNCHED A CHARM CAMPAIGN AND OUT IN NEIGHBORHOODS AND YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THINGS GO INTO THIS BUT THE MURDER RATE IS DOWN, AND THINGS SEEM TO BE GOING SOMEWHAT POSITIVELY, OTHER THAN THE STATE TRYING TO TAKE OVER.

ARE WE GOING TO GIVE CHIEF TRACY THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT HERE, BILL?

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO.

YOU KNOW, I'M ROOTING FOR CHIEF TRACY.

I MEAN, THERE'S -- I'M A SHOW-ME MISSOURIAN ON THIS, THOUGH.

I HEAR THE TALK, AND I'M NOT SURE THAT IT'S ENOUGH.

I MEAN, DATA-DRIVEN THIS, WITH CHIEF HAYDEN, HE HAD THE -- >> HOT SPOT.

>> TRIANGLE.

>> THE HOT SPOT AND EVERYTHING.

AND IT SEEMS LIKE THESE PEOPLE COME IN, AND THEY'VE GOT NEW PHRASES, AND WHETHER THAT'S REALLY GOING TO BE EFFECTIVE, I HOPE IT IS, BUT I'M NOT TERRIBLY OPTIMISTIC.

>> YOU NEVER GET A SECOND CHANCE TO MAKE A FIRST IMPRESSION.

I THINK HIS FIRST IMPRESSION'S BEEN VERY GOOD, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE, INCLUDING MYSELF, HAVE A REAL PROBLEM WITH THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY SUPPLEMENTING HIS SALARY, NOT WITH HIM TAKING IT, BUT THE CONCEPT THAT WE DIDN'T PAY HIM ENOUGH AS A COMMUNITY, OR THE CITY DIDN'T, THAT ONE OF HIS MANY CONSTITUENCIES, THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, OBVIOUSLY HAS A SPECIAL CONNECTION TO HIM, BECAUSE THEY PAY PART OF HIS SALARY, WHICH I DON'T THINK IS HEALTHY.

BUT I THINK YOU'VE GOT TO GIVE HIM, DEFINITELY GIVE HIM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AND AS FAR AS THE MURDER RATE DROP, IT DROPPED, WE'RE TALKING A YEAR OR TWO AGO DROPPED FOR A MINUTE.

I THINK THE MURDER RATE IS, WHILE OF COURSE IT'S IMPORTANT, IT IS GIVEN DISTORTED IMPORTANCE COMPARED TO THE OVERALL VIOLENT CRIME RATE.

COULD YOU HA YOU COULD HAVE A ZERO MURDER RATE BUT WITH THE CARJACKS WE HAVE AND OTHERS, IT WOULD BE OF NO SO LASS.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S RELEVANT AND HE SRNT CAN'T TAKE ANY CREDIT OR BLAME FOR IT BUT I THINK HE SHOULD BE GIVEN THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT HE CAN TAKE SOME CREDIT FOR IS THEY ARE OUT THERE WRITING TICKETS AGAIN FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE RUNNING THROUGH RED LIGHTS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE TERRORIZING THE NEIGHBORHOODS.

THEY'RE STARTING TO BE A LITTLE BIT OF A CHANGE IN THAT YOU'RE SEEING COPS OUT ON THE ROAD, AND I KNOW A COUPLE PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOTTEN TICKETED.

THIS IS A VERY STRANGE THING IN ST. LOUIS.

I FEEL HE HAS TWO REALLY IMPORTANT JOBS HERE.

HE HAS TO GET THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE CITY TO ROOT FOR THE COPS AGAIN AND HE HAS TO GET THE COPS ROOTING FOR THE CITY AGAIN.

EVERYBODY TURNED ON EACH OTHER.

EVERYTHING I'M HEARING AND READING, I'M HOPEFUL HE CAN DO THAT.

>> I DO, TOO.

WHEN HE SAYS "AT THIS POINT IN MY LIFE I WOULDN'T HAVE TAKEN THE JOB IF I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE WE CAN DO THIS" AND IT SEEMS EPRITT DECOR AND ALL IN MAYOR JONES AND HER PLANS.

RAY, HE HAS TO BE, WHETHER OR NOT WITH THE SALARY BUMP OR WITHOUT THE SALARY BUMP, I WANT A POLICE CHIEF AND A MAYOR WHO HAVE A GOOD CONNECTION OR FEEL CONNECTED TO THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

>> OF COURSE.

I'M NOT ARGUING IT.

THE QUESTION IS OF COURSE.

BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A FINANCIAL CONNECTION.

>> OKAY, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> SARAH MENTIONED THE POLICE GIVING TICKETS.

I'D LIKE TO CREDIT THE MAPLEWOOD POLICE OFFICER WHO CLOCKED ME AT 37 THE OTHER DAY.

>> UH-OH!

>> YOU'RE A FINALFUGITIVE.

>> NO, I'M NOT A FUGITIVE.

I ACCEPTED MY TICKET.

>> NO BAIL.

>> NO BAIL.

>> WE JUST GOT A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT.

OKAY, STATE OF MISSOURI YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON GUNS, BULLETS AND DIAPERS?

>> THE THING IS SO RIDICULOUS.

IT'S NICE THEY DECIDED TO SAY YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON DIAPERS AND FEMININE HYGIENE PRODUCTS.

THIS IS HARD FOR LOW-INCOME PEOPLE TO PAY FOR.

HOW DID BULLETS GET IN THERE?

IS THE STATE TRYING TO MAKE HEADLINES FOR BEINGRY KICK IT KEUHL KEUH RIDICULOUS.

>> THE REPUBLICANS ARE SO IRRATIONALLY PRO-GUN WITH A PERVERTED DISTORTION OF WHAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS.

>> DEMOCRATS PLAYED A ROLE IN THIS HAPPENING THOUGH.

>> THE DEMOCRATS BAITED S MADE A DEAL, IN ORDER TO GET THE SALES TAX EXEMPTION ON FEMININE HYGIENE PRODUCTS AND DIAPERS, THEY AGREED NOT TO FILIBUSTER MAKING GUNS AND AMMUNITION TAX-FREE.

>> THERE YOU GO.

>> I'M SURPRISED THE REPUBLICANS ARE COMING OUT FOR A TAX CREDIT IF YOU BUY AN ASSAULT WEAPON.

I MEAN, IT'S JUST SO OBSCENE WHAT THEY'RE DOING, AND YOU CAN BELIEVE IN THE RIGHTS OF PRIVATE GUN OWNERSHIP WITHOUT PROMOTING THE IDEA THAT YOU KNOW, GUNS ARE SOME, AND AM MISSION ARE SOME GREAT VIRTUE RELATED TO GOD.

>> I THINK ALSO WE'LL FIND OUT HOW MUCH TAX IS LOST ON THIS.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE BUYING GUNS IN MISSOURI, LEGALLY, PUT IT THAT WAY.

>> IT'S POSSIBLE PARSON WILL VETO IT.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT.

SOMEBODY MIGHT SAY THAT'S $1 MILLION A YEAR, GOVERNOR.

HE MIGHT SAY COME ON NOW, I WANT TO YOU BUY A GUN BUT YOU GOT TO PAY TAX ON IT ON IT.

>> A FRIEND OF MINE SAID DID YOU EVER THINK WE COULD LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE IT'S EASIER TO GET AN ASSAULT RIFLE THAN IT IS TO GET TAYLOR SWIFT TICKETS?

I THOUGHT THAT'S TRUE.

>> YOU HAVE TO PAY TAX AND HANDLING CHARGE AND -- >> YEP.

>> EVERYTHING ELSE.

>> YEP.

>> ALRIGHT.

WE DON'T HAVE ANY LETTERS THIS WEEK BUT HEY, WE HAVE A NICE TELEPHONE CALL.

>> Caller: TALK ABOUT THE POLICE, YES, I THINK THEY SHOULD GO BACK TO STATE OPERATION, BECAUSE THEY NEED IT.

THE CITY IS NOT GETTING SUPPORT FROM THE OFFICIALS AROUND, AND THE INDIVIDUALS, HOW MANY OF THE INDIVIDUAL MEN ARE NOT DOING THEIR JOBS, BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY SHOULD GET MORE MONEY AND THEY FEEL DIFFERENT WAYS ABOUT DIFFERENT THINGS AND THEY'RE TAKING IT UPON THEMSELVES NOT TO COOPERATE, AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY THE MAN ON 911 DIED THE WAY HE DID BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT DOING THEIR JOB.

POLICE DEFINITELY OUGHT TO GO BACK UNDER STATE GUIDANCE.

>> WELL, I'M DOING MY JOB AND YOU CAN TELL ME ABOUT IT.

YOU CAN WRITE TO DONNYBROOK CARE OF 9 PBS ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI, 63108 AND SEE MAIL TO DONNYBROOK@9PBS.ORG FOR TWEET #DONNYBROOKSTL.

CALL THE LINE AT 314-512-9094 AND YOU CAN CHECK US OUT ON PODCAST APPLE, SPOTIFY, GOOGLE PLAY, AND TUNE IN.

THANK YOU SARAH FENSKE FOR TUNING IN WITH US THIS WEEK.

CHARLIE IS COMING ON NEXT WEEK, I'LL BE BACK, I DON'T KNOW WHO WILL BE IN THAT CHAIR, THEY COULD NOT DO A BETTER JOB THAN HER UNTIL NEXT WEEK.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING TONIGHT.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK ON "DONNYBROOK".

>> "DONNYBROOK" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION, AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.