>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> IT'S ANOTHER EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US, AND LOT TO TALK ABOUT TODAY.

WE'LL ALSO MEET ANDREW WEIL FROM THE LANDMARKS ASSOCIATION WHO WILL JOIN ALVIN AND BILL ON NEXT UP AND TALK ABOUT PRESERVING OUR ARCHITECTURAL HERITAGE IN OUR AREA.

BUT FIRST, LET'S MEET THE PANELISTS SEATED AROUND THE ROUND TABLE.

SHE'S WENDY WIESE OF THE JENNIFER AND WENDY SHOW ON KTRS.

MR. BILL McCLELLAN FROM THE POST-DISPATCH.

RAY HARTMANN FROM RAWSTORY.COM, THE RIVERFRONT TIMES AND THE BIG 550 KTRS.

HE'S ALVIN REID FROM THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN AND BEFORE WENDY WIESE AND EVERYONE, WE START THIS PROGRAM, WE DO HAVE TO EXTEND OUR CONDOLENCES, THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS TO THE FAMILY OF ANN LEMMANS POLLOCK, A GREAT FOOD REVIEWER AND RESTAURANT CRITIC WHO PASSED AWAY UNEXPECTEDLY YESTERDAY.

SHE WAS ALSO AN AUTHOR.

HER LAST BOOK WAS ICONIC RESTAURANTS IN ST. LOUIS AND I CAN'T THINK OF ANYONE MORE FUN AND ARTICULATE WHEN IT COMES TO DESCRIBING FOOD.

I THINK SHE'S GOING TO BE GREATLY MISSED.

>> SHE IS GOING TO BE GREATLY MISSED BECAUSE THE LOSS OF HER HUSBAND WAS FELT BY MANY, MANY PEOPLE, AND SHE JUST BECAME A TREASURE IN HIS ABSENCE AND, AS YOU SAID, JUST A WONDERFUL WRITER AND A FRIEND TO MANY, MANY PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW HER IN SOCIAL MEDIA.

>> I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE HER AS A WRITER AT ST. LOUIS MAGAZINE, AND YOU'RE RIGHT, SHE'S VERY TALENTED WRITER, BUT JOE AND ANN, TWO OF THE NICE LEST PEOPLE AND IT'S A REAL LOSS TO ST. LOUIS.

>> SHE ALWAYS HAD A SMILE ON HER FACE.

>> EVERY WEEK.

>> SHE ALWAYS HAD A SMILE ON HER FACE.

>> VERY TRUE.

>> GOLLY, I LIKE TO SMILE A LOT, BUT BOY, SHE ALWAYS -- >> AND WASN'T SHE AT DONNYBASH?

SHE CAME TO A COUPLE OF DONNYBASHES TOO.

WE'LL REALLY MISS HER.

>> SHE ENJOYED LIFE.

>> SHE DID.

>> BILL, I WANT TO GET TO THE FIRST TOPIC WITH YOU AND THIS WEEK THE CHIEF NRAER OFFICERS FOR THE MISSOURI SUPREME COURT RECOMMENDED A REPRIMAND FOR THE CIRCUIT COURT KIM GARDNER AS SHE ENGAGED IN MISCONDUCT DURING HER PROSECUTION OF THEN GOVERNOR ERIC GREITENS, AND SOME PEOPLE WERE THINKING, WELL, MAYBE HE'LL RECOMMEND THAT SHE LOSE HER LAW LICENSE OR BE FORCED TO LEAVE HER JOB AS CIRCUIT ATTORNEY OR MAYBE BE SUSPENDED, BUT GIVEN THAT SHE WITHHELD EVIDENCE IN A LEGAL TRIAL, CRIMINAL TRIAL INVOLVING THE GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF MISSOURI, BIG TRIAL, I WOULD SAY, AND THAT THE DEFENDANT IS ENTITLED TO THAT EVIDENCE AND SHE'S ALSO THE PERSON WHO HAD THE EXCLUSION LIST WHERE, WHEN POLICE OFFICERS WITHHELD OR BURIED EVIDENCE OR LIED, SHE WOULDN'T EVEN DEAL WITH THEM AT ALL.

DON'T YOU THINK THAT THE RECOMMENDATION IS A LITTLE BIT LIGHT FOR THIS CHIEF PROSECUTING OFFICER IN ST. LOUIS?

>> WELL, THEY THROUGH THE PENCIL AT HER, AS THEY SAY.

YEAH, I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY LIGHT AND I'M DISAPPOINTED, BUT, YOU KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS SAID THAT SHE REMINDS ME OF TRUMP.

HER FOLLOWERS ARE LIKE TRUMP'S FOLLOWERS.

YOU KNOW, HE AND SHE CAN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG IN THEIR EYES, AND I THINK THAT THEY JUST DECIDED, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME AND ENERGY ON THIS AND IN THE END, IT COMES TO THE SAME THING AS THE IMPEACHMENTS OF DONALD TRUMP.

NOTHING HAPPENED AND SHE -- I'M SURE SHE FEELS EMBOLDENED AND THIS IS JUST THE NEW NORMAL WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH.

>> YOU KNOW, THE LEGAL COMMUNITY HAS -- WHATEVER YOU THINK OF KIM GARDNER, THE FIRST THING I THOUGHT WAS, WELL, THERE'S A FEELING OUT THERE THAT, YOU KNOW, JUDGES AND ATTORNEYS TAKE CARE OF JUDGES AND ATTORNEYS, AND I THOUGHT THAT SHE WAS GOING TO FACE A STIFFER PUNISHMENT AND WHEN IT HAPPENED, I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, WAIT A MINUTE, ALVIN, YOU ALREADY KNEW THE ANSWER.

THE McCLOSKEYS OUT THERE POINTING GUNS AT PEOPLE AND CARRYING ON -- >> BUT THEY WERE NOT ELECTED.

I MEAN, THESE ARE -- >> NO, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING -- >> FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT.

>> THEY'RE ATTORNEYS.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND THERE WAS NO BIG CLAM MORE FROM THE MISSOURI -- CLAMOR FROM THE MISSOURI LAW SOCIETY TO TAKE THEIR LICENSE AND DISBAR THEM.

>> SHE'S NOT OUT OF THE WOODS.

THIS IS JUST A RECOMMENDATION.

THE MISSOURI SUPREME COURT WILL ACTUALLY HAVE THE FINAL SAY, THAT IS CORRECT.

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

>> OKAY, SO NOT THAT WE'RE EXPECTING ANY BIG SURPRISE, BUT IT'S JUST -- IT JUST MAKES -- IT MAKES A BAD SITUATION WORSE IN MY OPINION.

WHEN YOU HAVE THE ELECTED PROSECUTOR, THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY, WHO STILL SEEMS TO PUT THE EMPHASIS -- AND WHEN I SEE HER INTERVIDEOED, I CAN'T HELP -- WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS MANY TYPES.

YOU CANNOT HELP BUT LIKE KIM GARDNER.

IF YOU KNOW HER STORY AND WHAT SHE'S TRYING TO DO, I THINK IT'S TERRIBLY MISGUIDED.

I'D RATHER SEE HER PROSECUTE AND THE PROSECUTOR RATHER THAN REFORMS.

I JUST DON'T THINK THAT'S HER JOB.

I DO NOT THINK THAT'S HER JOB.

>> I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO READ THROUGH THE STIPULATION, IT'S A PRETTY GOOD READ, NOT THAT HARD, PRETTY LONG, AND THE KEY POINTS IN THE STIPULATION WERE, A, THAT KIM GARDNER DID NOT HAVE ANY ILL INTENT.

THAT, B, AT HER OFFICE SHE ACTED PROMPT TI WHEN THE PROBLEMS WERE DRAWN TO THEIR ATTENTION.

AND C, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, NOTHING INVOLVED EXCULPATORY INFORMATION TO THE DEFENDANT ERIC GREITENS.

>> YES, IT DID.

>> YOU CAN ARGUE.

I'M JUST TELLING YOU WHAT THEY STIPULATED.

>> THE EVIDENCE THAT -- FOR INSTANCE -- >> WELL, THEN YOU KNOW MORE THAN THE PEOPLE.

>> IF THEY'RE SAYING THEY DID NOTHING WRONG -- >> LET ME REPEAT.

THEY'RE SAYING SHE DIDN'T HAVE BAD INTENTIONS AND THE INFORMATION INVOLVED WAS NOT EX-CLEANUP PA TOER, WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN EX-CUP PA TOER TO ERIC GREITENS.

>> AND I DISAGREE WITH THAT.

>> THAT'S IN THE FINDING -- OKAY.

>> SHE ENTERED K.S., THE WOMAN -- SHE INTERVIEWED K.S., THE WOMAN AT THE CENTER OF IT, BUT THE NOTES INDICATE BY K.S.

HERSELF SHE WENT TO VOLUNTARILY TO SEE GREITENS FOR OUR DIFFERENT OCCASIONS.

IF THAT'S NOT EXCULPATORY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS.

>> THE SPINGS FOUND THAT AND -- THE STIPULATION FOUND THAT AND IT WILL GO TO A THREE-PERSON PANEL, WHICH IS TWO LAWYERS AND ONE NONLAWYER AND THEY WILL MAKE A RECOMMEND DIGS TO THE SUPREME COURT.

AS YOU POINT OUT, IT'S NOT OVER AND I THINK IF YOU READ THE FACTS OTHER THAN WHAT YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE FACTS IS -- >> NO, NO, THOSE ARE THE FACTS.

>> SHE SAT THERE WITH MR. TISABY AND SHE ONLY HIRED HIM BECAUSE SHE SAID THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WOULDN'T LOOK INTO IT.

JIMMIE EDWARDS, THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY AND HAYDEN -- >> THAT'S TRUE.

>> BUT WHAT SHE'S ACCUSED OF DOING WITH ERIC GREITENS IS EXACT WHAT SHE DID MOST RECENTLY.

IN EIGHT CASES THIS WEEK, EIGHT MURDER CASES IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS HAVE BEEN THROWN OUT AND TWO OF THEM BECAUSE SHE WITHHELD EVIDENCE, INCLUDING THE CASE OF TWO ACCUSED MURDERERS KELLY -- RACHEL NIXON, EXCUSE ME, AND KAREN ANN QUINN.

AND JUDGE MARK NOBEL SAID I GOT TO THROW THIS CASE OUT BECAUSE THESE LADIES HAVE BEEN LANGUISHING IN JOIL FOR FOUR YEARS AND THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY WON'T OVER -- >> THEY'RE ACCUSED OF VIOLENT -- >> JUST TO BE CLEAR, HER OFFICE SAID THEY WERE AWAITING INFORMATION FROM THE ATF.

WHICH COULD BE TRUE.

NOW, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN GET OUT THERE AND LIE ABOUT THIS GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY, YOU KNOW, LIKE WHETHER OR NOT -- IF THEY'RE THE DELAY AND THEY CAUSED THIS, THAT'S NOT KIM GARDNER'S OFFICE.

>> WELL, HER OFFICE WAS SANCTIONED A YEAR AGO FOR THE VERY SAME THING.

>> BUT THAT'S -- >> AND IN TERMS OF THE FINDING -- >> I'M SORRY.

>> NO, IN TERMS OF THE FINDINGS, RAY, WHEN YOU SAY THEY CORRECTED -- WHAT WAS CORRECTED BY KIM GARDNER'S OFFICE?

>> YOU HAVE TO READ THE THING.

THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY.

THE OCDC, WHICH IS INDEPENDENT AND UNBIASED, WHICH WAS FINE WHEN THEY -- >> AND ERROROUS.

>> NO, READ IT FIRST AND SEE WHAT THEY SAY.

BILL MADE A POINT ABOUT TRUMP AND THIS IS -- >> BUT YOU DON'T SEE A PATTERN, RAY?

>> DID YOU READ THE 73-PAGE REPORT BY THE MISSOURI BAR DISCIPLINARY COMMITTEE?

>> YES, I DID.

>> THEY WANT THIS THING -- THEY'RE UPSET WITH THIS.

>> AND THIS WAS THE FOLLOW-UP TO THAT AND THAT WAS AFTER KIM GARDNER -- >> I THINK WHAT RAY -- >> LET ME FINISH ONE THING.

>> BE QUICK BIT, RAY.

>> WELL, I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO SAY IT.

YOU BROUGHT UP TRUMP.

DONALD TRUMP SAID EITHER I WIN OR IT WAS FIXED.

WHAT YOU GUYS ARE SAYING IS EITHER SHE GETS DISBARRED OR IT MUST BE A -- >> NO, THAT'S NOT FAIR AT ALL.

NOBODY HERE HAS MENTIONED DISBARMENT.

WE'RE SIGNIFICANT A REPRIMAND SEVERE ENOUGH -- >> WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT?

>> WE HAVE A PROBLEM.

>> SHE'S EITHER REPRIMANDED OR SHE'S GOING TO LOSE HER LAW LICENSE.

>> WHAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING TO ME IS WHAT I SAID BEFORE.

THAT'S THE FIX.

THAT'S THE LEGAL FIX.

WE'RE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF HER SO WE WON'T DISGRACE HER AND WE ALL WALK AWAY FROM THIS OKAY.

>> SO WE DON'T DISGRACE HER, BUT THINGS ARE NOT BEING FOLLOWED PROCEDURALLY AND VIOLENT CRIMINALS ARE BEING RELEASED.

>> AND YOU HAVE TO ADMIT TO IT.

>> THIS IS NOT A REFERENDUM ON -- YOU'RE MAKING THIS A REFERENDUM ON WHAT KIND OF PROSECUTOR SHE IS.

THIS IS AN ETHICS CASE.

>> IT'S ABOUT A -- >> THAT'S MY SUPPORT.

>> IT'S ABOUT A PARTICULAR CASE, THE WAY SHE HANDLED ERIC GREITENS.

>> IT'S A PATTERN, IT'S A PATTERN.

>> AND THEY FOUND, THE STIPULATION BETWEEN OCDC, THE DISCIPLINARY COMMITTEE AND HER, FOUND THERE WAS NO -- >> I WANT TO KNOW YOUR OPINIONS ON THE SENTENCES HANDED OUT THIS WEEK TO THREE MEMBERS OF THE ST. LOUIS AREA COMMUNITY WHO STORMED THE CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6th OF LAST YEAR.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EMILY HERNANDEZ, PAUL WESTOVER, BILL MERRY.

EMILY GET 307 DAYS IN JAIL FOR -- 30 DAYS IN JAIL FOR THIS AND THE TWO GUYS GET 45.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I DO A LOT OF THESE STORIES FOR RAW STORY, A LOT OF THEM.

>> YOU DO, YEAH.

>> I'M KIND OF TORN ON THIS ONE.

ON THE FACE OF IT, I THINK ALL THESE PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE GOT MORE.

JUST GENERALLY -- BUT I WILL SAY JUST BASED ON -- I'VE SEEN A COUPLE HUNDRED OF THESE, THEY ACTUALLY GOT MORE FOR WHAT THEY PLED TO THAN MOST OTHER PEOPLE TOO.

SO I DID ONE TODAY WHERE A GUY WAS A GYM OWNER WHO GOT CITED FOR FIGHTING COVID REGULATIONS AND WAS AT THE CAPITOL AND GOT PROBATION.

THERE WAS A COUPLE DIFFERENT LEVELS, BUT THERE'S ONE THAT IS PARADING, WHICH NORMALLY THEY GIVE PROBATION FOR, AND THIS GUY -- WHAT'S HIS NAME -- WESTOVER GOT TIME FOR IT.

MY CONCERN IS DOJ IS THEY'RE NOT SPENDING ENOUGH TIME, APPARENTLY, OR NOT WILLING TO FOCUS ON THE OVERALL GRAND CONSPIRACY OF DONALD TRUMP, BUT THEY'RE -- THE VIOLENT CRIMINALS ARE THE ONES THAT ARE GETTING THE REAL TIME AND EXCEPT THE SHAMAN WHO WASN'T VICINITY, BUT THEY MADE AN EXAMPLE -- WHO WASN'T VIOLENT, BUT THEY MADE AN EXAMPLE OUT OF HIM.

>> THIS IS THE SHAMAN WEARING THE HORNS.

>> WEARING THE HORNS.

HE GOT MORE TIME THAN -- >> I THINK 30 IS -- WHY BOTHER?

>> YOU'RE THROWING A PAMPHLET AT SOMEBODY.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO HAVE A FEDERAL CRIMINAL RECORD.

I THINK THAT'S GOING TO FOLLOW YOU A LONG TIME.

>> GOOD.

>> I THINK IT IMPACTS YOUR INTEREST RATES, YOUR -- >> GOOD.

>> THAT WILL HAUNT YOU.

I'M NOT GOING TO SAY THIS IS EASIEST THING.

I DON'T WANT TO SPEND 30 DAYS, MUCH LESS 30 HOURS AND THEY CAN'T SEND THEM TO ALCATRAZ BECAUSE IT'S CLOSED, BUT LET'S FIND A NICE NASTY ONE IN ATLANTA WHERE THEY SEND THE MAFIA FOLKS.

>> I INTERVIEWED EMILY HERNANDEZ AND I LIKED HER.

I THOUGHT SHE WAS JUST A SMALL-TOWN KID DELIVERING PIZZAS WHO GOT SWEPT UP IN -- BUT YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THE DAY SHE WAS SUPPOSED TO GO TO KOURKT SHE WAS DEFINITELY DRUNK AND DRIVING THE WRONG WAY DOWN THE HIGHWAY AND KILLED A YOUNG WOMAN WHO HAS TWO OR THREE CHILDREN.

EMILY'S LIFE, SHE HAS RUINED IT HERSELF.

THIS 30 CASE THING, THAT'S NOTHING COMPARED TO WHAT EMILY HAS DONE SINCE.

>> BILL IS RIGHT ABOUT THAT, BUT I'LL SAY THIS.

JUST THE OTHER SENTENCES, I'M TELLING YOU -- >> I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, RAY, BUT IF YOU ONLY GET 30 -- WHY DO WE ACTUALLY HAVE A JANUARY 6th COMMISSION IF THOSE WHO BROKE THE LAW ARE ONLY GETTING 30 DAYS?

>> I GUESS WHAT THEY DECIDED IS THE PEOPLE WHO DID NOT -- AND INTERESTINGLY, THESE INVOLVED -- THE REASON I THINK THEY GOT TIME, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WESTOVER, BUT IS IT MAJOR AND EMILY HERNANDEZ -- >> MERRY.

>> M-E-R-R-Y.

>> THEY GOT MORE TIME BECAUSE THEY PICKED UP A SIGN -- >> TAKING SUV SOUVENIRS.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS THEY GOT, LIKE THE SHAMAN, SHE ENDED UP HAVING THE STOLEN SIGN AND HELD IT UP -- THE OTHER GUY, I THINK HE PLEADED TO PARADING AND THIS IS THE FIRST PARADING I'VE SEEN GET TIME.

>> LET'S MOVE ON.

ALVIN, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A MEETING THAT WAS HELD AT ONE OF THE LOCAL YMCAs IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS THIS PAST SATURDAY.

ABOUT 50 PEOPLE SHOWED UP AND THE MEETING WAS SPONSORED BY THE CITY, WHICH IS ASKING THE CITIZENRY WHAT SHOULD WE DO WITH THE 249 MILLION FEDERAL PANDEMIC DOLLARS THAT WE HAVE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD HAPPEN?

SHOULD IT BE FOR CRIME FIGHTING OR EDUCATION OR THE HOMELESS?

DO YOU HAVE AN IDEA THERE?

>> WELL, A COUPLE STORIES I'VE READ, YOU KNOW, SOUNDS LIKE IT WAS A SMATTERING OF IDEAS.

SOME LIKE, WELL, THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

SOME, MAYBE IF YOU CONTINUE HELPING PEOPLE NOT BE THROWN OUT OF THEIR HOMES, WHICH IS ALWAYS A GOOD THING SINCE THE POPULATION IS DWINDLING IN ST. LOUIS PRETTY FAST, YOU NEED TO KEEP WHO YOU GOT.

I THINK WHEN YOU JUST BLANK SLATE, BLACKBOARD, YOU SHOULD HAVE AS MANY IDEAS, AND THAT IS COMMUNITY RESPONSE.

LIKE I SAY, SOME OF IT MIGHT BE FOLLY AND SOME OF IT MIGHT BE WISE JUDGMENT.

AS WE'VE DISCUSSED, I'M NOT A HUGE FAN OF JUST SENDING OUT MONEY, YOU KNOW, TO PEOPLE.

I THINK YOU CAN FIND A WAY TO BETTER SERVE THE COMMUNITY THAN THAT, BUT I THINK IT'S A START.

I MEAN, THEY'RE DOING IT IN THE COUNTY AND THEY -- YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD LISTEN STRAIGHT UP TO PEOPLE.

>> AND I KNOW THAT A LOT OF SMALL BUSINESS PEOPLE WHO WERE IN ATTENDANCE SAY THAT WE'D LIKE THE SAME KIND OF COURTESIES THAT ARE AFFORDED TO THE CENTRAL WEST END, THAT THE BUSINESSES ALL OVER ST. LOUIS AND THE PROSPEROUS AREAS, WE'D LIKE TO SEE THAT ON THE NORTH SIDE.

AND PEOPLE -- THERE WAS A WOMAN WHO OWNS A SHOP AND SHE SAID THAT I COULD PICK UP AND TAKE THIS ANYWHERE, BUT I CONCLUDES TO STAY IN BADEN TO SERVE THE PEOPLE THAT I -- THE COMMUNITY THAT I GREW UP AND THE COMMUNITY THAT I LOVE.

SO HOW IT'S ALL GOING TO SHAKE OUT, THOUGH, BY THE TIME THE DECISIONS ARE MADE, I'M SURE THAT EVERYBODY WILL BE SURPRISED.

>> AND I THINK IT'S A GREAT POINT, WENDY, THAT THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN THIS CENTRAL WEST BIAS BY THE POWERS THAT BE AND IT WOULD BE REALLY REFRESHING IF THAT BIAS DID NOT DOMINATE THIS.

AS ALVIN POINTED OUT, YOU GOT TO LISTEN TO FOLKS.

YOU GOT TO LISTEN AND I THINK OBVIOUSLY THE PANDEMIC MONEY NEEDS TO BE USED FOR AS CLOSE TO THINGS RELATED ON AS POSSIBLE.

ANYBODY CAN HAVE A WISH LIST FOR EVERYTHING, BUT IT'S AN INTERESTING PROCESS AND I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE THERE BEING MORE EQUITY IN THIS THAN NORMALLY.

>> BUT WE DO NEED SPECKS.

AT SOME POINT, WE HAVE TO -- >> NO, NO -- >> THIS SEEMS TO BE THE FACT FINDING PART OF THE HEARINGS, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, THEY'RE DRAGGING THEIR HEELS.

>> THIS IS WHERE YOU SHOULD START.

THIS IS GO TO THE PEOPLE, GET THIS WIDE, SOMEWHAT WILD LIST OF WANTS AND WISHES AND SOME WILL SAY EDUCATION AND IT WAS AFTER-SCHOOL JOB TRAINING AND SOME ARE GOOD IDEAS, SOME ARE NOT, BUT YOU'VE GOT TO START THERE.

I THOUGHT, WENDY, AT THE END, WHAT YOU SAID, I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO SAY WHATEVER THEY COME W EVERYBODY WILL BE MAD.

>> WELL, THAT THE TRUE.

>> I LIKE TO THINK THIS IS ALL JUST SORT OF ON THE SURFACE THAT WE'RE TALKING TO PEOPLE, THAT IN REALITY, THERE ARE SOME SMART PEOPLE, CITY PLANNERS WHO ARE SAYING, OKAY, HERE'S WHAT WE NEED TO DO AND LET THESE 50 PEOPLE COME TO THE MEETING AND TALK ABOUT IT, BUT THERE'S -- HERE'S WHAT THE SMART THING TO DO WOULD BE.

BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT'S TRUE.

>> WELL, THE SMART THING TO DO USUALLY WILL BE THE POLITICAL INSIDERS' SMART THING TO DO.

>> I KNOW, BUT -- >> BUT THEY END UP BEING INFLUENCED BY IT.

>> LET'S MOVE ON.

WENDY, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT PEN NAIR REMARKS BASED IN SUN -- PANERA, BASED IN SUNSET HILLS, ONE OF THE FASTEST GROWING RESTAURANT CHAINS, THEY DECIDED TO GO WITH ROBOTIC COFFEE, SO THE COFFEE SERVICE WILL BE AUTOMATED, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE WHO NOW HAVE THE MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION.

DO YOU THINK THIS IS THE RESULT OF THE LABOR SHORTAGE OR THE FACT THAT THOSE WHO ARE WORKING HAVE DEMANDED $15 AN HOUR OR JUST WHAT?

>> I THINK THE FACT THAT STARBUCKS IS -- YOU KNOW, YOU SEE A GREATER EMPHASIS ON THE PART OF THE WORKERS IN TERMS OF UNIONIZING, THAT'S BECOMING MORE OF A CONVERSATION.

AMAZON OBVIOUSLY UNIONIZING.

THERE ARE ALL THESE DISCUSSIONS, LABOR UNIONS MAKING A BIG COMEBACK.

WHAT I THOUGHT WAS SO FUNNY IN THE STORY, FIRST OF ALL, THIS ROBOTICS COMPANY, THEY HAVE ALSO PARTNERED WITH WHITE CASTLE AND ARBY'S.

THEY ARE MAKING SOME BIG INROADS, AND THE CHIEF DIGITAL OFFICER AT PANERA SAID, NO, NO, NO THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AUTOMATION AND THE -- COSTING PEOPLE THEIR JOBS.

NO, NO, NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT'S GOING ON HERE AT ALL.

WE JUST WANT OUR EMPLOYEES TO BE ABLE TO ENSURE THAT OUR CUSTOMERS ARE HAVING A WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE.

THAT MEANS THAT THIS IS ALL, IN MY OPINION, YOU FOLLOW THE MONEY.

>> AND I'M ROOTING FOR THE BAR RESIST TAP AND I LIKE THEED -- THE BARISTAS AND I LIKE THE IDEA OF THEM UNIONIZING, BUT WHATEVER HAPPENS WITH THE COFFEE IS NOT WHAT I'M SO CONCERNED ABOUT.

IT'S WHEN WE GO TO THESE DRIVERLESS TRUCKS.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE BIG MONEY, THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO SCARE ME WHEN I'M ON THE ROAD IN MY LITTLE HONDA AND ALL OF A SUDDEN SOME 18-WHEELER OR 24-WHEELER WITH NO DRIVER COMES WHIPPING ALONG.

>> I'LL STOP FOR COFFEE.

>> WHO DO YOU FLIP OFF IN THAT SITUATION?

DID YOU SEE THERE WAS A BIG TWITTER EXPLOSION YESTERDAY OVER SOME COPS PULLED OVER A DRIVERLESS CAR.

I TELL YOU WHAT.

LET ME SOUND LIKE A CANDLE MAKER PROTESTING ELECTRICITY.

I'LL VOTE WITH MY FEET AGAINST ANY ROBOTIC COFFEE SERVER.

IN OTHER WORDS, I THINK THAT -- >> I DON'T THINK THEY CARE, RAY.

>> I'M SAYING -- >> I WOULDN'T THINK THEY CARE.

>> I WILL, I WILL -- I PERSONALLY HOPE STARBUCKS IS ABLE TO -- THE BARISTAS CAN UNIONIZE BECAUSE I THINK IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY HAVE A JUST CAUSE AND I WILL SUPPORT LIVE PEOPLE AS LONG AS I CAN.

AND AGAIN, I PROBABLY WILL BE OBSOLETE, BUT I'M STILL DOING IT.

>> "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE" DID A SKIT A COUPLE WEEKS AGO AND IT'S THE AUTOMATED STORE THAT SCANS YOUR CHIPS.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE YOUR CARD OUT, IT JUST CHARGES YOU.

ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE ARE JUST NAH, NAH, THEY KEEP LOOKING AROUND.

NOT JUST BLACK PEOPLE, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT, NO, I'M NOT GOING TO THE PEOPLELESS COFFEE SHOP.

>> I JUST HOPE THE ROBOTIC COMPANY DOESN'T COME UP WITH AN AUTOMATED TALK SHOW PANELIST.

>> THAT WOULD BE REALLY -- >> AND THE STORES WITH THE JANITORS, THE THINGS THAT CLEAN UP -- >> THE BUS BOY.

>> THAT REMINDS ME OF WEST WORLD WHERE ONE DAY -- >> THAT'S WHAT THIS IS.

THAT'S WHAT THIS IS, ALVIN.

>> WENDY, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE EV CHARGING STATIONS?

THIS WAS AN ORDINANCE PASSED IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY WHICH WOULD REQUIRE CERTAIN DEVELOPERS PUTTING IN PARKING LOTS, ETCETERA, TO HAVE ONE OR TWO OF THESE EV CHARGING STATIONS, BUT NOW JIM MURPHY, STATE REPRESENTATIVE IN JEFFERSON CITY, SAYS IF IT'S SO IMPORTANT, ST. LOUIS COUNTY, YOU PAY FOR IT, DON'T PUT THE BURDEN ON THE BUSINESS OWNER IN THIS AGE OF SUPPLY CHAIN PROBLEMS, INFLATION, AND LABOR SHORTAGE.

>> IT'S $8,000.

>> PER CHARGING STATION.

>> PER CHARGING STATION.

OKAY.

TO ME, THAT REPRESENTS THE HIGH COST OF DOING BUSINESS.

I'M SORRY, AND IF THAT'S THE LAW, THEN THAT'S THE LAW.

AND HE'S SAYING DON'T PUT IT ON THE BUSINESSES, PUT IT ON THE TAXPAYERS.

>> RIGHT.

>> DON'T PUT IT ON THE BUSINESSES THAT GOT INTO THE BUSINESS, PUT IT ON TAXPAYERS.

I MEAN THAT, DOESN'T MAKE -- TO ME, THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE AND MAYBE I'M JUST GETTING TO THE AGE WHERE PEOPLE PERENNIALLY CRABBY ABOUT THIS KIND OF STUFF.

I DON'T EXPECT ANYBODY TO PUT GAS IN MY CAR, WHY WOULD I EXPECT SOMEBODY ELSE TO BE CHARGING MY -- >> WHY WOULD THE GUY WHO OWNS A GROCERY STORE IN HIS PARKING LOT HAVE TO HAVE AN EV CHARGING STATION?

IF CLEAN AIR IS IMPORTANT, AND IF IT IS, WHY NOT HAVE THE COUNTY PAY FOR IT?

>> BUT MURPHY SAID THIS IS TRUMPED UP, NO FUN INTENDED, BUT HE DOES THINK THAT THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CLEAN AIR.

HE THINKS THIS IS JUST A WAY TO PASS THE BUCK.

>> YES, WE -- ELECTRIC CARS ARE COMING, WHOLESALE, AND I GET LITERATURE FROM FORD SAYING IN ANOTHER TEN YEARS, THREE-FOURTH OF OUR VEHICLES ARE GOING TO BE ELECTRIC, SO ONCE AGAIN, ST. LOUIS, ST. LOUIS COUNTY TOOK A STEP THAT WOULD MAKE IT PROGRESSIVE AND SEE THE WORLD AS IT'S GOING TO BE INSTEAD OF 100 YEARS AGO, SO LET'S JUST CLAMP DOWN.

WE CAN'T HAVE THAT.

>> BUT ANSWER MY QUESTION.

IF IT'S IMPORTANT PUBLIC POLICY, THEN WHY DOESN'T THE COUNTY PAY FOR IT?

>> BECAUSE IT COSTS TOO MUCH.

>> WE'RE THE COUNTY.

>> IF IT'S A PUBLIC POLICY GOAL, PAY FOR IT.

DON'T PUT IT ON SOMEONE ELSE'S SHOULDERS OR BURDEN.

>> WELL, THE FACT IS I AM PROBABLY THE LEAST QUALIFIED PERSON ON THE PLANET TO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING TO DO WITH COMMERCIAL SHOPPING CENTERS, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THERE ARE LOTS OF PARKING REGULATIONS WHEN YOU HAVE A PARKING LOT, THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF REGULATIONS ABOUT THE NUMBER OF SPACES.

IT IS TOTALLY REASONABLE AS WENDY SUGGESTS TO HAVE -- $8,000 IS A WHITE CHIP, PARTICULARLY FOR LARGER BUSINESSES, TO HAVE THIS AS PART OF THE REGULATIONS THAT ALREADY EXIST FOR PARKING LOTS.

IT'S PERFECTLY REASONABLE AND THE ONLY -- >> NO, THE ON -- >> IT IS, CHARLIE.

>> IF THE PUBLIC WANTS TO TAX ITSELF FOR -- TO APPROPRIATE THROUGH THE NORMAL PROCESS FOR VEHICLE STATIONS IN, SAY, PUBLIC PARKING AND STUFF, THAT'S FINE, BUT AS WENDY POINTS OUT, IT SHOULDN'T BE JUST STUCK ON THEM AS IF IT'S SO BAD FOR THE BUSINESSES TO BEAR THE COST.

>> WELL, I HAVE ANOTHER PROBLEM WITH IT.

OKAY, SO HERE THIS WOMAN HAS TO PUT IN AN ELECTRIC CHARGING STATION.

WELL, WITH ALL THE GUNS AROUND AND EVERYBODY TEMPERS FLARING, I CAN'T BELIEVE THERE AREN'T GOING TO BE FIGHTS FOR THESE.

ONE HERE, ONE OVER THERE.

>> GREAT POINT.

I STILL HAVE -- >> AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, I COME IN AND PLUG MY CAR IN AND IT TAKES A WHILE.

I MEAN, IT'S NOT LIKE FILLING IT UP WITH GAS.

I LEAVE TO GO DO SOMETHING ELSE, AND MEANWHILE, SOMEBODY ELSE COMES IN AND THEY WANT IT AND IT'S LIKE THE LAUNDROMAT WHERE ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU KNOW, SHOULD I TAKE THE CLOTHES OUT OF THIS WASHER?

>> WAIT A MINUTE, ARE YOU AGAINST THE V STATION?

>> I HAVE CONCERNS, RAY.

>> I WAS THE CANDLE MAKER ON THE ROBOTS.

YOU WANT TO BE THE CANDLE MAKER AGAINST THE EV STATIONS.

>> WELL, I'M CONCERNED.

>> FOUNDERS ARE OFTEN FOR THE CAN'T ZELL MAKERS.

>> ON THAT NOTE, WE THANK YOU EVERYBODY FOR JOINING US AND WE REMIND YOU THAT ANDREW WEIL WILL BE ON NEXT UP JUST AROUND THE CORNER WITH ALVIN AND RAY ASKING HIM ABOUT THE LANDMARKS ASSOCIATION AND PRESERVING ARCHITECTURAL HERITAGE.

DON'T FORGET YOU CAN ALWAYS WRITE TO US AND SHARE YOUR OPINIONS, 3655 OLIVE STREET, ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 63108.

WE LOVE THOSE TWEETS, DONNYBROOK@NINEPBS.ORG IS WHERE YOU CAN EMAIL US AND #DONNYBROOKSTL ON TWITTER, AND FIND OUR PODCASTS WHEREVER YOU FIND YOUR FAVORITE PODCASTS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US, BUT DON'T GO AWAY.

ALVIN AND BILL WILL ANDREW WEIL OF LANDMARKS ASSOCIATION, AND THAT'S NEXT.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.