>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> HEY, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

WE HAVE A GREAT PANEL AND A LOT TO TALK ABOUT, SO LET'S GET TO IT.

LET'S MEET THE MEDIA VETERAN FROM THE BIG 550 KTRS, WENDY WIESE.

ALONG WITH MR. BILL McCLELLAN FROM THE POST-DISPATCH.

RAY HARTMANN FROM KTRS, RAWSTORY.COM, AND THE RIVERFRONT TIMES.

AND THERE HE IS, ALVIN REID FROM THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN WITH HIS PROUD NINE PBS MUG.

HEY, BILL, LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT A REPORT THAT CAME OUT THIS WEEK FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE AND, OF COURSE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DEATH OF CORA FAITH WALKER, ST. LOUIS COUNTY OFFICIAL WHO DIED MARCH THE 11th IN THE LOWE'S HOTEL IN DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS, AND FOLKS WERE NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENED, BUT THIS WEEK, THE MEDICAL EXAMINER SAID IT WAS HEART FAILURE.

THERE WERE NO TRACES OF ILLEGAL OR NONPRESCRIBED DRUGS IN HER SYSTEM.

PEOPLE ARE WONDERING JUST IN GENERAL HOW THIS STORY HAS EVOLVED AND THE MEDIA COVERAGE OF IT.

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE?

>> I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS A TRAGIC STORY AND I THOUGHT THE MEDIA COVERED WHAT WAS -- WHAT ONE WOULD EXPECT.

I MEAN, WHEN A VERY PROMINENT YOUNG, SEEMINGLY HEALTHY PERSON DIES IN A HOTEL CORRIDOR, DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS, AND THE ONLY THING THAT THE PEOPLE KNOW IS THIS WAS AFTER A PARTY AND SHE HAD SPENT THE NIGHT IN THE HOTEL, OF COURSE, THE MEDIA IS GOING TO SAY, WHAT'S GOING ON?

AND I THINK THAT, LIKE LAUREN TRAGER OF CHANNEL 4, WHO WAS REALLY THE LEADING VOICE EARLY ON ASKING QUESTIONS, I THOUGHT THAT THE QUESTIONS WERE ALL VERY APPROPRIATE AND THE STORY ENDS WITH DR. MICHAEL GRAHAM, WHO'S, YOU KNOW, GOOD AS GOLD, SAYING THAT THERE WAS NOTHING HERE.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, NO -- LIKE YOU SAY, NO DRUGS.

THIS WAS A NATURAL DEATH AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE STORY ENDS.

BUT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IN THE MEDIA ACTED INAPPROPRIATELY AT ALL.

I THOUGHT THAT THE MAYOR'S DAD WENT OVERBOARD IN HIS ATTACK, BUT THEN AGAIN, HE'S THE MAYOR'S DAD, YOU KNOW, AND THIS WAS A FRIEND OF THE MAYOR.

SO THAT WAS ALL PERSONAL STUFF, BUT -- >> WELL, YOU'RE RIGHT -- >> THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT.

>> -- AND HER STAR WAS RISING AND IT WAS SUCH AN OUT-OF-SEASON PASSING, YOU KNOW.

ONLY 37 YEARS OLD, BUT I STILL -- I STILL CONTEND THAT -- AND I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT LAUREN TRAGER.

I THINK EVERYTHING THEY DID WAS ABSOLUTELY APPROPRIATE, BUT I THINK THAT IN THE FEROCITY OF FERVIS'S RESPONSE AND REACTION TO IT, AND AS I SAID AT THE TIME, I THINK IT WAS HIS GRIEF SPEAKING, BUT I THINK THAT EXTENDED THE INTEREST AND THE SHELF LIFE OF THE STORY.

>> I DON'T KNOW AND I CAN SAY I DISAGREE WITH THAT.

WE KIND OF DON'T KNOW, BUT THAT MAKES IT SOUND KIND OF LIKE VINDICTIVE.

YOU DID THIS, SO I'M GOING TO DO THAT NOW.

MEDIA WISE, WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM.

IT'S A STORY THAT NEEDED TO BE COVERED.

I THOUGHT EDITORIAL IN SOME ASPECTS, OKAY, AT THE POST AND OTHER PLACES, TOO, IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OVERBOARD BECAUSE I THINK IF ANYTHING HAPPENED TO US SIMILAR TO THAT, THERE WOULD BE, WHAT HAPPENED TO US.

BUT I DON'T THINK OUR FAMILIES WOULD WAKE UP AND WHOEVER OUR FRIENDS WERE, BE THEY POLITICAL, BE THEY -- I DON'T THINK THEIR NAMES WOULD BE COMING UP IN IT.

I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BYPASSED UNTIL THEY FOUND OUT EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO US.

AND I ALSO FEEL, AND THIS IS JUST ME SPEAKING PERSONALLY, I FEEL AS THOUGH THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA, THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE SOCIAL MEDIA WORLD, THAT ARE PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT POLITICAL CIRCLES, THAT QUITE FRANKLY ARE DISAPPOINTED WITH THE OUTCOME BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THAT THIS COULD BE FODDER TO BE USED IN SOME WAY AGAINST THE MAYOR AND OTHERS, AND UNFORTUNATELY, I HONESTLY FEEL LIKE THAT.

>> WELL, YOU'RE PROBABLY RIGHT.

>> I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU, BUT I DON'T -- IT'S A TOUGH SITUATION.

THERE WERE SO MANY RUMORS, I MEAN, SO MANY RUMORS THAT CAME MY WAY, AND I'M NOT REALLY THAT CONNECTED TO THAT STUFF AS I MIGHT HAVE BEEN ONCE UPON A TIME.

I THOUGHT, WOW, THE TOWN WAS BUZZING ABOUT THIS, AND I HAPPENED TO HAVE A LOT OF REGARD FOR DAN ISOM AND THEN HE STARTED TALKING ABOUT IT, I STARTED REALLY, YOU KNOW -- I REALLY, AND YOU TALKED ABOUT DR. GRAHAM.

I REALLY FELT LIKE SOME OF THE, AND MAYBE FOR THE REASONS YOU'RE DESCRIBING, SOME OF THE INITIAL SCUTTLEBUTT WAS A LITTLE BIT OVER THE TOP.

NOW, IT REALLY DIDN'T GET INTO THE MEDIA, THOUGH.

I AGREE WITH YOU, THE MEDIA, THERE'S NO GOOD WAY TO COVER THIS STORY AND I THINK THEY -- IT WAS FINE.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW, IT IS OVER.

I MEAN, SHE -- YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO REMEMBER THE END, WHICH IS THAT THERE WAS A TRAGIC DEATH OF A WOMAN WITH A HEART CONDITION AND THAT'S IT.

>> HEY, ALVIN, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE ARCH GROUNDS IN DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS, NOW KNOWN AS THE GATEWAY ARCH NATIONAL PARK, RENOVATED TO THE TUNE OF $380 MILLION RECENTLY, ABOUT HALF OF IT PRIVATE FUNDS AND HALF OF IT TAX DOLLARS RAISED LOCALLY TO IMPROVE THIS NATIONAL PARK.

THE POST-DISPATCH THIS WEEKEND POINTED OUT THAT ACTUALLY, IF YOU NOT ONLY LOOK AT THE ATTENDANCE NOW COMPARED TO PRE-PANDEMIC, BUT ALSO TO LIKE THE 1990s DURING ITS HEYDAY, THERE ARE MILLIONS OF FEWER VISITORS, FEWER VISITORS, VISITING THIS NEW PARK WITH THE RIVERFRONT THAT'S BEEN REDESIGNED.

THERE AREN'T ENOUGH PEOPLE SELLING FOOD IN THE STALLS.

THERE AREN'T PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING UP IN THE ARCH AND GOING INTO THIS NEW EXPENSIVE MUSEUM.

AND NOW THEY HAVE THAT LID ACROSS THE DEPRESSED LANE, WHICH IS NOW HIGHWAY 44, I GUESS, AND WE THOUGHT THAT ONCE THE ARCH GROUNDS WERE CONNECTED TO DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS, PEOPLE WOULD BE JUST WALKING ACROSS.

AND YET THEY AREN'T.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT LIKE THE DEPRESSED LANES WERE KIND OF LIKE DEFUND THE POLICE AND -- >> YEAH.

>> AND WHAT A STUPID THING.

BETTER WORDS WOULD HAVE HELPED.

>> WASN'T IT ALWAYS GREAT TO HEAR, IN THE DEPRESSED LANE.

>> IN THE DEPRESSED LANE.

AWWW.

HAVE SOME FRENCH FRIES.

>> I ALWAYS SAID THE PEOPLE DIDN'T LOOK HAPPY.

>> I STILL THINK WE'RE ON THE COMEBACK TRAIL AND I THINK THE NEW ARCH GROUNDS AND GOING BACK TO THE ARCH, THEY'RE SOME PLACES THAT IT'S JUST GOING TO TAKE LONGER.

TO RIDE UP IN THE ARCH IS A SMALL LITTLE DEAL AND IF IT'S JUST YOU OR YOUR -- YOU KNOW, ONE OTHER PERSON, YOU'RE GOING TO RIDE WITH OTHER PEOPLE, I DON'T KNOW THAT EVERYBODY IT'S SECURING DOING THAT.

WHEN YOU TURN ON A CARDINALS BASEBALL GAME OR MANY BASEBALL GAMES ACROSS AMERICA, WE KNOW THAT PEOPLE BUY TICKETS TO THE GAME AND OH, WE'RE ALL INTO IT.

BOY, A LOT OF THAT RED IS LIKE NOT CARDINAL FANS.

IT'S EMPTY SEATS.

PEOPLE AREN'T REALLY EAGER TO START GETTING BACK OUT THERE JUST YET.

LET'S COME BACK AFTER THIS SUMMER AND SEE BECAUSE THIS WILL BE THE FIRST SUMMER THAT'S AT LEAST QUASI-NORMAL IN, WHAT, TWO YEARS?

LET'S GIVE IT A CHANCE.

>> WELL, YOU HAVE -- $380 MILLION PRICE TAG, OKAY, YEAH, THAT'S GOING TO ALWAYS ATTRACT SOME ATTENTION.

BUT I'M 1,000% WITH YOU, ALVIN.

THANK GOD THAT THE RESTAURANTS THAT ARE STILL TRYING TO COME BACK AREN'T HELD TO THE SAME STANDARD.

WELL, YOU KNOW, THEIR GUEST LIST OR THEIR WAITING LIST IS NOT WHAT IT USED TO BE.

THE ARCH IS SPECTACULAR.

THE MONEY HAD TO BE SPENT.

IT IS THE GATEWAY TO THE WEST, IT IS A VERY IMPORTANT NATIONAL MONUMENT WITH PEOPLE COMING IN FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, SO GIVE IT TIME.

I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE STORY AT ALL, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

>> I CAN ONLY SAY THIS.

I NEVER BELIEVED THAT IT WAS DIFFICULT CROSSING THE STREET THERE AT MEMORIAL DRIVE TO GET TO THE ARCH.

I THOUGHT THAT THE LID OVER THE HIGHWAY WAS UNNECESSARY BECAUSE I USED TO SAY, WENDY, WHEN WE WERE WORKING DOWN AT KMOX, WE'D SEE LITTLE OLD LADIES CROSSING THE STREET TO GET TO THE CHURCH AT OLD CATHEDRAL, THEY HAD NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS A WASTE OF MONEY, BUT I LOOK AT OTHER PARKS AROUND THE COUNTRY AND THEY'RE EXPLODING.

IT'S A BIG NATIONAL STORY.

NATIONAL PARKS ARE OVERCROWDED RIGHT NOW.

>> BUT THEY'RE OUTDOORS.

>> THIS IS A NATIONAL PARK.

>> GRIZZLY BEARS DOESN'T HAVE COVID.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO YELLOWSTONE.

>> YOU CAN'T COMPARE YOSEMITE OR ROCKY MOUNTAINS -- >> WE USED TO HAVE FOUR MILLION VISITORS A YEAR.

>> CHARLIE, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THAT IT WAS THE EASE OF GETTING ACROSS -- >> IT WAS NOT EASY.

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS DIFFICULT AND I THOUGHT WHEN THEY PUT THE DOME ACROSS, I THOUGHT THAT WILL HELP DOWNTOWN PEOPLE WALK OVER FOR LUNCH.

>> EXACTLY.

>> AND THE PROBLEM IS, YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WORKING DOWNTOWN ANYMORE.

>> AND THAT'S THE THING.

>> HE'S RIGHT.

>> AND PLUS, WE HAVEN'T MENTIONED THE "C" WORD, THE CRIME PROBLEM BECAUSE THAT'S STILL PART OF IT.

>> WELL, THAT'S TRUE -- >> PERCEPTION IS REALITY.

>> AND THEY JUST CLOSED DOWN LEN MORE K. SULLIVAN BOULEVARD AFTER 9:00 P.M. >> I SUSPECT THAT THE $380 MILLION PROJECT WAS OVERSOLD -- >> AS THEY ALWAYS ARE.

>> AS THEY ALWAYS ARE IN THIS TOWN.

FROM PERSONALLY BEING THERE, AESTHETICALLY, I THINK IT'S WAY GOOD.

>> IT'S GORGEOUS.

>> IT'S GORGEOUS AND I THINK IT'S WAY TOO EARLY TO MAKE A DECISION.

I'M NOT POSITIVE THAT TWO OR THREE YEARS FROM NOW, WE SHOULDN'T BE SAYING -- THIS STORY MAY BE AHEAD OF ITS TIME.

>> AFTER A GLOBAL PANDEMIC -- >> IT'S A FAIR QUESTION.

>> YOU WOULD THINK ONCE IT OPENS, THERE WOULD BE AN EXPLOSION OF INTEREST, SETTING RECORDS.

>> I'M NOT JOKING WHEN I SAY THIS.

I THINK IF WE COULD FIND A WAY TO SHINE THE ARCH, TO REALLY GIVE IT A GOOD SHINING WHERE IT REALLY GLEANS, LIKE IT WAS BRAND NU, I THINK PEOPLE WOULD BE DRAWN TO IT.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT I THINK THEY NEED TO DO?

I WAS JUST IN SHENANDOAH NATIONAL PARK AT THIS TIME LAST WEEK.

THEY SELL BEER AND YOU CAN BUY TWO 12-OUNCE CANS OF BEER.

WE NEED A BEER GARDEN.

>> THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THAT.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT YOUR POND?

McCLELLAN POND?

>> I WOULD PREFER McCLELLAN.

>> LET'S MOVE ON.

WE WANT TO GO TO WENDY.

THE JEFFERSON EXPANSION OR WHATEVER IT WAS.

LET'S TALK TO THE JEFFERSON STATUTE AT LINDELL AND BOLIVAR IN FOREST PARK.

IT'S BEEN REPORTED BY VARIOUS OUTLETS THAT ARE NOW PANELS NEXT TO THE STATUE EXPLAINING THAT THOMAS JEFFERSON, HE HAD ENSLAVED PERSONS, HE BOUGHT THE LOUISIANA PURCHASE, SO NOW PEOPLE CAN LEARN THE PROS AND THE CONS.

YOU THINK ALL STATUES, ULYSSES GRANT, CHUCK BERRY AND OTHERS, KING LOUIE THE IX SHOULD HAVE EXPLANATORY PANELS?

>> I THINK THEY SHOULD.

WE ADD ALL THESE QUESTIONS ABOUT REMOVING THE STATUE AND I THOUGHT, LET'S JUST PUT UP EXPLANATIONS.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE PRETTY INVOLVED.

WHO'S GOING TO DO THE VETTING, FIRST OF ALL.

OBVIOUSLY, HE HAD 600 SLAVES AND WE HAVE ANTI-SEMITIC NATIONAL HEROES.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY INVOLVED AND IF EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THAT, THEN THAT'S FINE.

THIS WAS NOT THE FIRST TIME THIS HAPPENED, THOUGH, ACCORDING TO THE ARTICLE.

THERE WAS A PARADOX OF LEADERSHIP OR LIBERTY, A DISPLAY AT THE HISTORY MUSEUM JUST TEN YEARS AGO, SO THEY'VE FRESHENED UP HIS -- THE AWFUL PARTS OF HIS LIFE.

>> YOUR QUESTION IS ALL STATUES.

THIS IS A HISTORY MUSEUM.

THE IDEA OF INTERPRETIVE PANELS AT A HISTORY MUSEUM MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT EVERY STATUE EVERYWHERE NEEDS AN INTERPRETIVE PANEL.

>> WHY NOT?

>> I DON'T THINK EVERY STATUE EVERYWHERE NEED AND HISTORIC -- I THINK IN A HISTORY MUSEUM, IT'S PERFECTLY REASONABLE AND APPROPRIATE TO BE AS BROAD AND THOROUGH ABOUT HISTORY AND NOT -- A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE THINK THE REAL HISTORY IS ONLY THE ONE SIDE THAT HAS TRADITIONALLY BEEN TAUGHT.

I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO BROAD BRUSH IT AS A POLITICALLY CORRECT ISSUE.

I DON'T VIEW IT THAT WAY AT A HISTORY MUSEUM.

>> AS OPPOSED TO REMOVING -- LET ME SEE, WE REMOVED THE STATUE OF COLUMBUS IN SOUTH ST. LOUIS.

WE REMOVED THE CONFEDERATE MEMORIAL IN FOREST PARK.

I THINK THE PANELS EXPLAINING THE EXHIBITS WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT IN BOTH CASES.

>> I THINK THE CONFEDERATE -- I'M SORRY, I PUT THE CONFEDERATE MEMORIAL THAT THEIR OWN BUCKET.

>> AND KIND OF HOW I -- I JUST THINK THE WHOLE SLAVERY THING NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED AND I KNOW THAT DIFFERENT AMERICAN HEROES HAVE DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, BAGGAGE, BUT I'M JUST -- ALL I CAN SPEAK TO THE SLAVERY ASPECT, AND ONCE AGAIN, IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT, GO SEE "HAMILTON" BECAUSE THOMAS JEFFERSON IS EXPLORED IN A WAY THAT MOST AMERICANS HAVE NO IDEA AND THERE IS BASED ON FACT.

>> AND HERE'S MY OWN QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A VERY, VERY LONG TIME SINCE I SAT IN A CLASSROOM.

THEY ARE TEACHING THOMAS JEFFERSON'S PAST IN CLASSROOMS, CORRECT?

>> THAT WILL BE COMING TO AN END IN A STATE NEAR YOU -- >> NOT REALLY.

>> I SAID SOMETHING TO MY GRANDDAUGHTER ABOUT GEORGE WASHINGTON AND SHE SAID, COACH, HE WAS A SLAVE OWNER, WASN'T HE?

SHE DIDN'T SAY WAS HE.

SHE SAID, COACH K HE WAS A SLAVE HOLDER.

WELL, HE WAS.

YES, THEY ARE TEACHING THAT.

>> BUT I MEAN, YOU KNOW -- >> IT APPROPRIATE FOR THE -- >> WHAT KIND OF LIBERAL SCHOOL YOU SEND YOUR KIDS?

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S -- [ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ] >> RAY HARTMANN, NOW IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI, AND THIS IS ACTUALLY FOR THE 2022-2023 SCHOOL YEAR, SOMEONE CAN MAKE A DONATION TO A NOT-FOR-PROFIT ORGANIZATION AND THEN GET A TAX CREDIT.

NOT JUST A TAX DEDUCTION, BUT A TAX CREDIT WHERE THE INCOME TAX LIABILITY IS REDUCED AND THAT MONEY WILL GO TO PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS.

IT'S BEING ADMINISTERED AS WE FOUND OUT THIS WEEK BY SIX RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS.

ONE THE JEWISH, ANOTHER LUTHERAN, ONE IS CHRISTIAN, MAYBE TWO OF THEM ARE CATHOLIC, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

S ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THIS?

I KNOW FOR A LONG TIME, YOU'VE WAMENTED THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

>> AS PROVIDED BY THE CONSTITUTION.

>> YEAH, IT WAS -- [ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ] .

>> NO, YOU MADE US AWARE OF WRITING COLUMNS ON THE SUBJECT.

AM I WRONG?

>> I MEAN, I THOUGHT IT FOR SOME TIME.

I WAS TRYING TO REMEMBER WHY I CAME UP WITH THE CONCEPT.

NO, I THINK THAT IT'S -- >> DIDN'T YOU CALM -- CALM IT THE ESTABLISHMENT -- >> NO, WE HAVE A ROBUST AND WONDERFUL PRIVATE EDUCATION SYSTEM IN ST. LOUIS.

FOR EXAMPLE, ALL THE GREAT PRIVATE SCHOOLS, INCLUDING CATHOLIC SCHOOLS, SOME OF THE FINEST PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

I SENT MY KIDSES TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS NOURK BUT THEY'VE BEEN IN BOTH.

I DON'T THINK IT'S MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE TO RESPECT THE PRIVATE SCHOOLS AND SAY WE NEED TO KEEP PUBLIC MONEY OUT OF PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

AND EVERY ONE OF THESE ATTEMPTS TO BREAK THAT BARRIER DOWN, I NOTICE YOU DIDN'T MENTION MUSLIM SCHOOLS AND AS SOON AS SOMEBODY STARTS DOING THAT, THERE WILL BE A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION.

I JUST THINK KEEPING CHURCH AND STATE SEPARATE IS A VERY IMPORTANT THING FOR OUR COUNTRY.

>> I'M SORRY, I SENT MY KIDS TO RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS FOR 12 YEARS, BOTH OF THEM, AND I AM IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH RAY.

I'M VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THIS.

>> OKAY, WELL I WOULD NORMALLY BE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THIS, BUT I THINK THAT IT COULD BE A REALLY GOOD THING FOR THE CITY.

I MEAN, IN ST. LOUIS, WHEN THE PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS WERE STRONGER AND, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD NUNS TEACHING SO IT WAS VERY CHEAP TO SEND KIDS THERE BECAUSE THE NUNS DIDN'T REQUIRE A LOT OF MONEY, THE PEOPLE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY MOVE OUT OF THE CITY WHEN THEY HAD KIDS.

THEY'D SEND THEIR KIDS TO PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS WHEN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS WERE STRUGGLING AND THEY STILL ARE.

I THINK IF WE HAD A STRONGER PAROCHIAL SCHOOL SYSTEM IN THE CITY, IT WILL KEEP YOUNG FAMILIES IN THE CITY, SO I THINK IN THIS INSTANCE, IT'S A GOOD THING.

>> BUT PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THOSE -- THE BIG FAMILIES ANYMORE.

I MEAN, YOU'RE SAYING TO ASSIST FAMILIES -- I'M JUST TRYING TO -- >> I'M THINKING IT WILL STRENGTHEN THE PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS WHEN -- >> OKAY, DON'T FORGET, THE STUDENTS GOING TO THESE, WENDY, ARE MOSTLY -- THEY HAVE TO BE PRIORITIZED BASED ON DISABILITY OR INCOME AND THEY HAVE TO BE NONSECTARIAN.

THEY CAN'T SAY ONLY JEWS OR ONLY CATHOLIC -- >> THEY DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THE ADA.

>> AND THEY CAN DISDISCRIMINATE AGAINST GAY TEACHERS, IS THAT MY UNDERSTANDING AS WELL.

>> PRIVATE SCHOOLS CAN.

>> WELL, IT MAY INCREASE MINORITY ATTENDANCE AT BETTER SCHOOLS WITHIN THE CITY.

I GET THAT.

NOW, WHAT'S THE BIGGEST CONCERN THAT I HAD?

WAS THAT THE MONEY WILL COME FROM THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.

TOTALLY, ABSOLUTELY AGAINST IT.

THIS IS WHERE POLITICS COMES IN AND THIS IS WHERE I MIGHT HAVE HELD MY NOSE AND SAID I MIGHT HAVE TO VOTE FOR THIS BECAUSE THIS MONEY, WHILE IT IS STATE MONEY, NOT A DIME IS COMING FROM THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.

SO IF I HAD TO COMPROMISE, I THINK I COULD -- "LIVE WITH IT" MIGHT BE TOO STRONG A WORD, BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO FULLY FUND PUBLIC SCHOOLS, THEN DO THIS.

THE FEAR IS, SOONER OR LATER, ONLY A MATTER OF TIME -- >> CAMEL'S NOSE.

>> -- SOME NUTTY -- >> YOU CAN MAKE A CASE, LIKE YOU JUST SAID, FOR ANY ONE CASE, BUT THE OVERALL IMPACT OF THIS KIND OF THING, CALL ME WHATEVER YOU WANT -- >> NO, I'M GOING TO CALL YOU RIGHT.

>> IT'S A SEPARATION ISSUE.

>> TO ME, THE RED FLAG IN THIS, WHEN THEY MADE A -- MAYBE IT WAS JUST THE ARTICLE MAKING A POINT, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THE AMERICANS WITH DISABILITY ACT AND EXACTLY WHY?

AND WHY SHOULD THEY NOT?

>> BUT YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT WITH A TAX DEDUCTION?

>> WHY SHOULD THEY BE EXEMPT FROM THE ADA?

>> RIGHT NOW THERE COULD BE A PRIVATE OR PAROCHIAL SCHOOL THAT'S A 501(c)(3) AND YOU CAN WRITE A CHECK AND GET A TAX DEDUCTION.

THIS IS A TAX CREDIT.

THERE ARE FOOD PANTRIES -- AS YOU KNOW, MISSOURI IS A PRETTY GENEROUS TAX CREDIT FOR FOOD PANT PANTRIES, MANY OF WHICH ARE RUN BY RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS.

>> RAY AND WENDY ARE RIGHT.

I LIKE TO THINK I'M ABOUT 80% RIGHT.

>> WHAT DOES THAT LEAVE ME?

THEY'RE 100% RIGHT, I'M ZERO PERCENT?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> ALL RIGHT, LET'S MOVE ON.

ON SATURDAY NIGHT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO BE SPEAKING TO THE ST. PETER AND PAUL HOMELESS SHELTER AND THIS IS A GREAT ORGANIZATION IN SOULARD AND THEY'RE EXPANDING, GOING TO TRY AND RAISE A MILLION DOLLARS AND GO FROM 69 BEDS TO 100 AND YOU'RE THE KEYNOTE SPEAKER THIS SATURDAY.

IT'S KIND OF COULD INCIDENTINCIDENTCOINCID ENTAL, I GUESS, THIS IS THE WEEK THAT ST. LOUIS ANNOUNCED IT'S GOING TO REMOVE FOUR HOMELESS CAMPS, AND SOME PEOPLE ARE THINKING, HOW CAN YOU DO THIS?

THEY'RE DOING IT FOR HEALTH REASONS, BUT SOME ADVOCATES FOR THE HOMELESS SAY YOU'RE GOING TO BE SPREADING WHATEVER HEALTH PROBLEMS YOU HAVE AROUND THE CITY IF YOU CLOSE THESE ENCAMPME ENCAMPMENTS.

HOW DO YOU FALL ON THIS ISSUE?

>> WELL, TOM BURNHAM IS SORT OF THE GURU OF THE HOMELESS AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, AND HE THINKS THAT SPREADING IT OUT IS NOT NECESSARILY A GOOD IDEA.

BUT WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING MORE THAN WE'RE DOING, AND LIKE YOU SAY, THE PETER PAUL COMMUNITY SERVICES IS HOPING TO MOVE THEIR LONGTIME SHELTER OUT OF THE CHURCH BASEMENT, THE CROWDED LITTLE CHURCH BASEMENT, AND HAVE A NEW FACILITY SOMEWHERE, AND THAT'S THE SORT OF PARTIAL SOLUTION WE NEED.

I SAY PARTIAL SOLUTION BECAUSE SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HOMELESS DON'T WANT TO GO TO SHELTERS AND IT'S DIFFICULT TO TELL SOMEBODY YOU HAVE TO GO TO A SHELTER.

>> I MEAN, I AGREE.

OVER A SOLUTION -- I DON'T HAVE A SOLUTION, SO ANY POSSIBLE WAY TO ADDRESS THIS IS FINE.

I'M JUST NOT A BIG ENCAMPMENT FAN AND IT'S ODD BECAUSE ADVOCATES KIND OF MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT I DISAGREE WITH.

LET'S KEEP ALL OF THE, YOU KNOW, HEALTH PROBLEMS TOGETHER BECAUSE WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT IT SPREADING OUT TO WHERE I LIVE, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS I CAN COME AND WRITE A CHECK AND DO WHATEVER, BUT I DON'T WANT IT AROUND ME, SO LET'S KEEP IT ALL HERE.

>> WELL, I THOUGHT THE ONES DOWN BY THE RIVER, I THOUGHT, OKAY, DOWN BY THE RIVER, IT'S INDUSTRIAL, YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF HOMES -- >> RESIDENTS.

>> -- THERE AND IT'S CLOSE ENOUGH TO DOWNTOWN WHERE PEOPLE GO FOR SERVICES, SO LIKE THE ONE OUT SOUTH BY RIVER DES PERES, THAT'S A PROBLEM BECAUSE IT'S A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD AND YOU'RE FAR FROM SERVICES.

BUT THE ENCAMPMENTS DOWNTOWN, I MEAN, I WOULD NOT BE IN A HURRY TO BUST THEM UP.

>> OKAY.

>> I THINK BILL'S IN THE 90s.

>> 90% BETTER THAN -- >> BUT THE AREA AROUND RIVER DES PER PERES, IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'VE HAD IT WITH THE ENCAMPMENT.

>> ALVIN, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT FORMER GOVERNOR GREITENS WHO WENT ON A POLICE RIDE-ALONG AND HE ACTUALLY TWEETED ABOUT IT, A AND THEN THE MAYOR OF KK DIDN'T CARE FOR IT.

THIS IS WITH THE KANSAS CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT.

THEY SAID, HE DIDN'T HAVE OUR APPROVAL TO TWEET, BUT I'M THINKING TO MYSELF, YOU HAVE A FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE POLICE.

WE KNOW THAT RIGHT NOW, PROTESTERS AND EVERYONE ELSE CAN DO THAT.

HE DIDN'T HAVE PERMISSION, BUT HE DIDN'T NEED IT REALLY, DID HE?

YOU'VE BEEN ON SOME OF THESE RIDE-ALONGS.

>> YEAH, I DID.

I DID A RIDE-ALONG AND I REALLY ENJOYED IT ONE NIGHT.

WE GOT IN THE CAR AND HE SAID HERE'S THE KEY.

IF SOMETHING HAPPENS TO ME, YOU DRIVE THIS CAR DIRECTLY BACK TO THE POLICE STATION.

EVEN IF THE HEADLIGHT DON'T WORK.

WE HAD PERMISSION AND DID A STORY.

ERIC GREITENS ONCE AGAIN PUT HIMSELF IN A SITUATION THAT I'M BIGGER THAN LAW, I'M ERIC GREITENS, I CAN DO ANYTHING I WANT TO.

MAYBE THE POLICE SHOULD HAVE MADE THAT, YOU KNOW, FIRM AND SQUARE TO HIM, BUT I BET YOU THEY DID.

SO I JUST -- >> BUT TWO OF THE -- IS THAT CORRECT, THAT TWO OF THE POLICE COMMISSIONERS IN KANSAS CITY ARE GREITENS DONORS OR FORMER GREITENS STAFFERS, SO THAT PROBABLY -- THAT PROBABLY MAKES ALL OF THAT CLEAR.

BUT NO, I JUST HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE CRIME RATE, NOT JUST HERE IN ST. LOUIS, BUT IN KANSAS CITY, ALL OVER THE PLACE, TO HAVE A SQUAD CAR USED AS A PROP IN ANY POLITICAL COMMERCIAL, TO ME IS JUST -- >> WELL, WHO ARE WE -- >> I JUST THINK IT'S -- >> I'M SORRY.

>> WHO ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

>> ERIC GREITENS.

>> OH, THEN IT WAS A WIN FOR HIS CAMPAIGN.

IT'S A BIG WIN FOR HIM.

IT'S AN OUTRAGE STORY, A LOT OF PEOPLE UPSET.

IT IS ANOTHER WIN FOR HIM AND THAT'S THE WORLD OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN 2022.

THE PRIMARY, IT IS A WIN -- >> NO, NO, THIS IS NOT.

>> -- FOR HIM.

>> THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME HE'S GOT IN TROUBLE WITH THE CAMERA, BUT AS MUCH AS YOU DON'T DON'T LIKE ERIC GREITENS, WHAT DID HE DO WRONG?

>> HE PLENTY WRONG.

HE CLEARLY ABUSED -- >> HE DIDN'T HAVE PERMISSION.

>> HE'S NO MORE THAN A PROTESTER REQUEST PERMISSION -- >> NO, OVERS A RIDE-ALONG.

THE POLICE GAVE HIM PERMISSION TO DO THIS, BUT NOT PERMISSION -- >> TO FILM IT.

>> THE QUESTION IS APPROVAL.

HE DIDN'T GET AFROSM, BUT HE DOESN'T NEED PERMISSION.

>> IT'S EASIER TO ASK FORGIVENESS THAN PERMISSION.

>> YOU PROVE MY POINT.

WHAT HE NEEDS IS TO HAVE HIS NAME -- I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S IN THE NEWS, BUT I'M SAYING HE IS -- EVERY TIME HE GETS -- WHETHER HE'S RIGHT OR WRONG -- >> EVERY TIME THE BELL RINGS, ERIC GREITENS -- >> I'M HERE TO TELL YOU, IF THERE WAS A DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR OFFICE -- [ ALL TALKING AT ONCE ] >> NO, NO, NO.

>> I DISAGREE.

>> NO, CORI BUSH SHOULD DO A RIDE-ALONG AND IF SHE DID, AND THEY SAID YOU CAN DO A RIDE-ALONG, YOU PUT IT ON A COMMERCIAL AND SAY I GET ALONG WITH THE POLICE, SHE HAD BE OUT OF LINE.

>> EVERYBODY IS ABLE TO TAKE A PHOTO OF POLICE WORK IN THE COUNTRY AND IT'S WELL PROTECTED BY THE LAW.

>> SO I CAN WALK INTO THE POLICE STATION AND JUST START -- NO.

>> BECAUSE YOU'RE ON THEIR PROPER.

WHEN YOU'RE SITTING IN A POLICE CAR AND THEY GAVE YOU PERMISSION AND YOU'RE NOT UNDER ARREST -- >> HEY, WE'RE GETTING THE TIMEOUT TIME.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS GREAT CONVERSATION IS COMING TO AN END.

YOU WRITE ABOUT IT SENDING YOUR LETTERS TO NINE PBS, 3655 OLIVE STREET, ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 63108.

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THAT'S IT FOR THE FIRST HALF, BUT DON'T TOUCH THAT DIAL, BECAUSE IN A MOMENT, DR. MICHAEL KINCH FROM THE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY OF SCHOOL OF MEDICINE WILL BE JOINING BILL AND WENDY FOR A CONVERSATION ABOUT COVID-19 AND OTHER PUBLIC HEALTH TOPICS.

THAT'S NEXT.

THE REST OF US WILL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.