>ANNOUNCER: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>>> HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

LOTS TO TALK ABOUT.

FIRST, LET'S MEET THE PANELISTS.

>> WE START WITH WENDY WIESE FROM THE BIG 550, COHOST OF THE JENNIFER AND WENDY SHOW.

>> JOE SOMETIMES APPEARS ON THAT PROGRAM WHEN HE IS NOT WRITING FOR THE ST L TODAY.COM.

>> RAY HARTMANN FROM KT RSAND RIVER FRONT TIMES.

AND THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN DRESSED FOR THE SEASON -- [LAUGHTER.]

ALVIN REID WHO IS APART OF THE CROWD THIS PAST FRIDAY WHEN WE RAISED CLOSE TO 500 DOLLARS IN WHO HOURS FOR THE SALVATION ARMY.

WE HAD NOTABLES, INCLUDING THE CEO, FORMER FIRE CHIEF, AND FORMER GOVERNOR OF THE GREAT STATE OF MISSOURI, AND MARK SMITH, THE POLICE CHIEF.

IT WAS A LOT OF FUN.

>> IT WAS A LOT OF FUN.

IT WAS A LOT OF COLD.

[LAUGHTER.]

>> IT WAS A GREAT NIGHT.

THEY ARE STILL OUT THERE, PLEASE THROW SOMETHING THAT THAT BUCKET, IT MEANS A LOT OF.

>> BE GENEROUS.

>> WE HAD SUCH A GOOD TIME.

AND CHARLIE AND HIS WIFE BETH HOSTED US, IT WAS A LOVELY LITTLE CHRISTMAS PARTY.

THE BELL-RINGERS WORK VERY, VERY HARD.

>> AND IT WAS SO FUN, I LEFT MY HAT OVER THERE.

[LAUGHTER.]

>>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE DRAG QUEEN CHRISTMAS.

IT WAS AT THE FACTORY.

IT WAS THE SOURCE OF CONTROVERSY WHEN A STATE SENATOR SENT A LETTER TO THE PAGEANT -- NOT THE PAGEANT, THE FACTORY PROMOTERS AND THE MAYOR OF CHESTERFIELD SAYING THIS PERFORMANCE SHOULD NOT BE SHOWN TO PEOPLE UNDER 18.

THE FACTORY AND THE CITY AND THE PEOPLE AGREED THAT THERE SHOULD BE AN ADMISSION RESTRICTION TO 18 AND OVER.

OF ALL OF THE ISSUES EFFECTING THE YOUTH, TO MAKE AN ISSUE AS MEN DRESSED ADD WOMEN SINGING DIANA ROSS SONGS, IS THAT REALLY A PRESSING ISSUE?

>> IT IS NOT.

FIRST OF ALL, IT IS NOT A JUDGMENT ON ANYONE'S SEXUALITY OR ANYTHING.

ZERO.

IF YOU HAVE TO BE 18 TO GO SEE AN R-RATED -- I MEAN 17, I'M NOT SAYING YOU HAVE TO BE 18 TO SEE THIS TYPE OF PERFORMANCE.

FOR SOME REASON, THERE IS A, YOU KNOW, JUST THE MOVIE-MAKERS THEMSELVES CREATE THIS AGE KIND OF LIKE LIMIT, AND THEY SAY YOU HAVE TO BE 17 TO SEE AN R-RATED MOVIE.

WHETHER IT IS THE SEX, LANGUAGE, VIOLENCE, OR WHATEVER THEY DON'T SAY, MAYBE YOU NEED TO BE 17.

I THINK THAT'S A FAIR FAIFAIR ASSES FAIR ASSESSMENT.

IF THE FACTORY SAY, YEAH, LIKE, THIS IS FAIR TO ASK THAT, THEN I'M NOT IN DISAGREEMENT WITH THAT.

I'M NOT SAYING I'M IN DISAGREEMENT WITH ANYONE'S LIFESTYLE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

>> A DRAG QUEEN IS PG.

IT IS NOT A SEX SHOW.

LET'S FACE IT, THE ONLY BAD THING IS THE WING-NUT SENATOR USING THIS EXCUSE TO LAUNCH HIS WING-NUT CAMPAIGN FOR GOVERNOR.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS IN HIS DISTRICT.

HOO PHOBIA SELLS.

IF SOMEONE UNDER THAT AGE WANTS TO GO, IT IS ENTERTAINMENT.

WHAT DID YOU -- I FORGET WHAT THEY ARE SINGING.

IT IS NOT A SEX SHOW, IT IS A DRAG QUEEN SHOW.

IT IS NOT ADULT ORIENTED.

IT IS JUST SINGING.

>> AND SEX ORIENTED, THE BIRD CAGE IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE MOVIES OF ALL TIME.

ABSOLUTELY ALL TIME.

IF THEY WANT TO GO WITH THEIR PARENTS, FINE LET THEM GO WITH THEIR PARENTS.

RACETRACKS HAVE AGE LIMITS.

THE ADULT REALM HAS AGE LIMITS.

IF THERE IS AN ELEMENTARY DRAG SHOW, OKAY, FINE.

THIS IS TO ME IN MY MIND THIS IS NOT THE ADULT REALM.

THERE SHOULD BE SOME KIND OF RESTRICTIONS.

>> I BET NO CHILDREN WENT TO IT ANY WAY.

>> I THINK RAY IS RIGHT.

>> I DIDN'T MENTIONS THE SENATOR'S NAME.

OR SCHMITT SUING MEXICO, THEY ARE TRYING TO GET THEIR NAME IN THE PAPER.

THEY ARE PLAYING US.

>> I SEE THE MOTIVE.

ALL OF US HAVE RAISED KIDS AND IN YOUR MIND, NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.

YOU NEED TO BE OF A CERTAIN AGE TO SEE IT.

>> ISN'T IT UP TO THEIR PARENTS AND NOT SOME SENATOR?

>> YEAH.

>> LET THE PARENTS TAKE THEM.

>> WHY CAN'T THE KIDS SEE IT?

>> THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION WOULDN'T CARE IF 11-YEAR-OLDS WENT TO SEE PU PUPU PULP FICTION.

I DON'T HATE GUNS.

BUT, COME ON NOW.

>> THE RETIRING SUPERINTENDENT FOR THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS WROTE A WONDERFUL PIECE SAYING HE HAD A GREAT TIME AS SUPERINTENDENT.

BUT 192 KIDS DIED WHILE HE WAS SUPERINTENDENT.

THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE SHOULD GET EXCITED ABOUT!

>> WHEN THEY SAY MY REMEDY IS TO TAKE OVER THE CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT, WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANY PART OF THAT.

THIS IS JUST ONE LITTLE THING THAT I THINK IT IS -- I'M SORRY.

>> FIRST OF ALL, I HAD NO IDEA THAT 7-12-YEAR-OLDS WANTED TO GO SEE DRAG QUEENS FOR CHRISTMAS.

I THOUGHT THEY WOULD HAVE PICKED THE POLAR EXPRESS FOR THE 9TH TIME!

.

[LAUGHTER.]

>> THE COMMUNITY SETS THE STANDARDS AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, YOU WRITE ORDINANCES OR LAWS THAT REFLECT THAT.

I GUESS I'M NOT OPPOSED TO PUTTING A LIMIT ON THIS.

>> I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THE COMMUNITY'S RIGHT TO SET IT.

THIS WAS NOT THE COMMUNITY.

THIS WAS A GRAND-STANDING POLITICIAN, NOT APART OF THE COMMUNITY.

I UNDERSTAND, PEOPLE DISAGREE.

WHO ARE YOU KEEPING OUT AGAIN?

AGAIN, THE UNDERLYING ASSUMPTION THAT I FIND BAD, IS -- >> YOU KNOW WHAT --?

>> -- BECAUSE IT IS THE SAME SEX, THAT'S WHAT BUGS HIM.

>> IF YOU SAY YOU CAN'T DO THIS AND WE ARE GOING TO PICK AND CHOOSE, THAT MEANS THERE SHOULDN'T BE AN AGE LIMIT FOR ANYONE.

>> NO -- >> MAYBE THE PATTERN DIDN'T START THERE.

THEY TOOK THE GAY EXHIBIT OUT OF THE CAPITOL AND NOW THEY ARE BANNING BOOKS IN LIBRARIES AND SCHOOLS.

AND THE LEFT TRIES TO STOP FREE SPEECH.

THE ROCK TEACHER, ROCKWOOD'S NOT -- NOT A TEACHER.

>> BOARD MEMBER.

>> RIGHT.

SHE GOT IN TROUBLE FOR HER LANGUAGE.

>> THE ONLY PROBLEM I HAVE WITH THE DRAG SHOWS IS WHEN THE PERFORMERS ARE MORE ATTRACTIVE.

[LAUGHTER.]

>>WHAT AND THE REIGN NIGHTCLUB GOT INTO TROUBLE DURING COVID-19 BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE NOT WEARING MASKS AND NOT SOCIAL DISTANCING.

AND DANA KELLY WAS MORE THAN 400 THOUSAND DOLLARS IN REARS.

IT IS STRANGE THAT THE TOP ENFORCE ENFORCERS, THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY HAS HIRED HER, A WOMAN WHO HAS BEEN TRYING TO EVADE LAWS.

DANA KELLY HAS A JOB IN THE OFFICE OF KIM GARDNER.

>> FOR 150 THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR.

THAT'S THE SALARY.

MR. GILLFOIL WHAT WAS THE POINT?

THEY WERE BEING HUSH, HUSH ABOUT IT AND REQUIRING SUNSHINE LAW PAPERWORK AND APPLICATIONS.

I THINK THAT PERCEPTION IS REALITY WHEN IT COMES TO OUR CITY RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THAT EVERY PART OF THE MACHINE HAS TO BE WORKING AS -- AND FINALLY TUNED A MANNER AS POSSIBLE.

THIS DOESN'T PASS THE SMELL TEST.

IT LOOKS VERY, VERY BAD WHEN SOMEONE WITH THIS KIND OF A REPUTATION WITH A NIGHTCLUB.

MAYBE SHE IS A GOOD BUSINESS WOMAN.

SHE ENDS UP IN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR 150 THOUSAND DOLLARS?

IT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD.

>> PEOPLE HAVE TO JUDGE THROUGH THEIR OWN LENS.

I AM NOT PEGGING THIS ON KIM GARDNER -- >> ANY WAY -- >> AND GUESS WHO GOT HIRED?

AND THEY DID THIS IN KIRK WOOD, I WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.

>> AND PROBLEM IS THE LOW BAR OF GOVERNMENT AT SOME POINT IN TIME, WORK FOR CITY GOVERNMENT, THEN WENT TO WORK IN A NIGHTCLUB.

AND IT WAS APPARENTLY NOT MANAGED WELL AND NOW IN THE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

GOD BLESS HAVING POLITICAL CONNECTIONS.

THAT'S WHAT WE GET.

SO IT SHOULDN'T COME AS A SHOCK AND BE APPALLED BY IT, SOMEONE KNEW SOMEBODY GOT A JOB.

IT IS CRINGE-WORTHY THAT YOU GET IN THE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE?

ABSOLUTELY.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE BIGGEST PROBLEM FACING CHILDREN IS NOT DRAG SHOWS.

I DON'T THINK THE BIGGEST PROBLEM FACING THIS OFFICE IS NOT HIRING KELLY.

>> WE TALK ABOUT 50 THOUSAND DOLLARS.

IT IS NOT THAT HUGE SOME OF MONEY.

IT IS NOT -- IT IS HARDLY AN EXPRESSIVE AMOUNT OF MONEY -- 50 THOUSAND DOLLARS.

>> I HAVE NO IDEA IF SHE IS QUALIFIED.

FROM ALL APPEARANCES, SHET A VERY SUCCESSFUL -- SHE HAD AN APPEARANCE OF SUCCESSFUL.

SHE WAS SUCCESSFUL BEFORE SHE WASN'T.

I KNOW WHAT THAT FEELS LIKE.

SHE HAD THE BIGGEST NIGHTCLUB DOWNTOWN.

THE PROBLEM WITH REIGN -- SHE DIDN'T BUILD THE BIGGEST NIGHTCLUB BECAUSE IT WAS MANAGED CORRECTLY.

THERE WERE HORRIFIC CRIME PROBLEMS AROUND IT.

AND THE NEIGHBORS SPOKE UP AS THEY HAD A RIGHT TO DO.

IT GOT CLOSED DOWN.

IT IS NOT CLEAR IF THE CRIME PROBLEMS WERE HER FAULT.

AND SHE MY HAVE NOT HAD WRONGDOING.

I KNOW NONE OF YOU SUGGESTS THAT SHE HAS A LOCATIONAL DEATH PENALTY.

IT IS ABOUT THE OPTICS.

SHE HAS NOTHING TO APOLOGIZE FOR.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE IS DOING FOR GARDNER.

>> SPEAKING OF SALARIES, THE NEW CHIEF IS GOING TO RECEIVE, ROBERT TRACY FROM DELAWARE.

HE IS GOING TO MAKE 275 THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR.

100 THOUSAND DOLLARS WILL BE A PRIVATE DONATION FROM THE ST. LOUIS POLICE ASSOCIATION.

THEY SAID THAT IT IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE NOW IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE CHIEF WILL GIVE PEOPLE WHO FUND THAT FOUNDATION PREFERENCES OR SOMETHING.

>> THEY WILL GET THAT ANY WAY.

A FRIEND OF MINE IS A POLICE OFFICER, AND THEY SAID THEY BOUGHT THEMSELVES A CHIEF.

THAT'S ONE WAY TO LOOK AT IT.

THE POLICE FOUNDATION HAS HAD -- FIRST OF ALL, THEY DO A LOT OF GOOD.

AND THEY HAVE HUGE, AS WE SAW WITH THE HIRING OF MARY B BARTON IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY THEY HAVE INFLUENCE INDIRECTLY AND DIRECTLY.

YOU TALK ABOUT OPPOSITICOPTICS.

IF YOU DON'T OPERATE WITH THE ASSUMPTION POWERFUL INTERESTS SHOULD HAVE SPECIAL ACCESS AND SPECIAL FAVOR, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, IT IS POOR OPTICS.

I'M NOT SUGGESTING ANY WRONGDOING.

I'M SAYING THE CITY SHOULD HAVE BUDGED MORE MONEY FOR THIS POSITION.

I DON'T THINK IT -- I THINK IT IS BAD OPTICS.

>> THE OPTICS IS ON THE CITY AND NOT ON THE FOUNDATION AND NOT THE INCOMING CHIEF.

IF THAT'S THE KIND OF MONEY IT TAKES THESE DAYS TO GET A QUALITY POLICE CHIEF AND NO ONE IS NOT GOING TO ARGUE THAT CRIME IS A MAJOR CONCERN.

IT IS NOT A NO-BRAINER JOB.

IT IS A HIGHLY COMPLEX, COMPLICATED -- >> STRESSFUL -- >> -- STRESSFUL, DANGEROUS JOB TO HAVE.

IF THE 175 THOUSAND DOLLARS IS NOT ENOUGH TO COMPETE, THEN THE CITY NEEDS TO RAISE THAT.

THEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE FOUNDATION HAVING TO KICK IN MONEY.

THEN WE DON'T HAVE THIS PROBLEM OF, WELL, WILL THEY BE ANSWERING TO THOSE POWER PEOPLE?

PEOPLE HIGH UP ALWAYS ANSWER TO HIGHER PEOPLE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

MONEY OR NOT.

>> THIS CANDIDATE WON'T CATER DO, WHEN THE PRESIDENT OF IBM CALLS, YOU TAKE THAT CALL.

THEY NEED TO MAKE SURE THEIR SALARY SCALE IS COMPETITIVE SO YOU CAN GET GOOD PEOPLE TO HOPEFULLY TURN THINGS AROUND.

>> WHY IS IT THEN, WHEN THE STATE FOOTBALL TEAM WANTS TO TURN IT AROUND.

LOOK, THE BUDGET SAYS WE CAN HIRE A COACH FOR INSTEAD OF 175 THOUSAND BUT 75 MILLION.

TO GET THE GUY OR WOMAN WE WANT IT WILL TAKE MORE MONEY.

WE WILL THROW THAT MONEY IN.

YOU CAN SAY, COACH, YOU ARE HELD TO THE PEOPLE THAT GAVE YOU THE MONEY.

THE PLAYERS, THE FANS, ALL OF THE OTHER COACHES, EVERYBODY IN THE STATES IS LIKE, LOOK, AS LONG AS WE WIN GAMES, I DON'T CARE WHO PAYS IT.

AS LONG AS CRIME GOES DOWN, I WILL BE GIVING TO THE FOUNDATION.

[LAUGHTER.]

>> EXACTLY.

>> RIGHT!

>> WENTDY -- NO, I WILL ASK YOU JOE THIS NEW 12-MILE BIKING, HIKING TRAIL.

I THINK IT IS CALLED THE LINE.

IT REPLACED THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE KIND OF LIKE THE CIVIC BOOSTER RELEASED A STUDY INDICATING THAT THIS BRICK LINE, A BIKE AND WALKING PATH CONNECTING TOWER GROVE PARK AND PARKS IN NORTH ST. LOUIS, THE ARCH IS GOING TO GENERATE 460 MILLION DOLLARS IN ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.

THE PROPERTY VALUES WILL RISE BECAUSE OF THIS HIKING AND BIKING TRAIL.

ARE YOU BUYING IT?

>> IT WILL RAISE 722 MILLION DOLLARS.

I JUST FIGURED THAT OUT ON THE DRIVE IN HERE.

[LAUGHTER.]

>> I LOVE THESE PROJECTIONS.

IT REMINDS OF THE FAIR ST. LOUIS.

WE THINK 7 MILLION PEOPLE WENT TO THE FIREWORKS LAST NIGHT.

AND IT WAS LIKE, I DIDN'T COUNT, I GUESS I WILL TAKE THEIR WORD FOR IT.

FIRST OF ALL, IT IS A GREAT IDEA.

I'M A BICYCLISTS.

>> YES, YOU ARE.

>> ANY PLACE I CAN RIDE MY BIKE, THAT'S GREAT.

ESPECIALLY THE ARCH TO FOREST PARK.

I THINK IT WILL BE HEAVILY USED AND TOWER GROVE TO THE FAIRGROUNDS, OVER TIME THEY WILL DISCOVER THAT.

CYCLISTS ARE LOOKING FOR PLACES TO RIDE.

>> THE FACT THAT IT WILL GENERATE THAT KIND OF REVENUE, THEY SIT AROUND AND SAY 800 MILLION.

NO, THAT'S SOUNDS TOO HIGH.

200 MILLION?

NO, THAT'S TOO LOW.

LET'S SAY 400 MILLION DOLLARS.

I HAVE NO FAITH THAT IT WILL GENERATE THAT.

DO I THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA?

YES.

IT KEEPS THE AREA FROM RECEDING, GOING BACK.

SO IT STABILIZING IT OR CAUSES SLIGHT IMPROVEMENT, IT WILL BE WELL WORTH IT.

>> LET'S FOCUS ON WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY ESTABLISHED OURSELVES AS -- CYNICAL AT THIS STAGE OF OUR LIVES.

I TRULY DO BELIEVE THAT IN KIND, IN -- MAYBE IN A WAY THAT CAN'T BE MEASURED, IT IS GOING TO HAVE A TRANSFORMATIVE EFFECT ON THIS CITY.

I DO BELIEVE THAT.

BECAUSE WE SEE YOUNG PEOPLE.

WE SEE OLDER PEOPLE -- NO OFFENSE, AND YOUNGER PEOPLE THAT ARE ATTRACTED TO CITIES WITH THIS KIND OF THING.

AND MAYBE THAT'S BEYOND OUR PAY GRADE.

ER OR OUR DEMOGRAPHIC GRADE.

IT WILL HELP WITH THE PERCEPTION OF THE CITY.

AND THAT COULD HELP THE VALUES.

>> -- OLD CYCLISTS.

>> [LAUGHTER.]

>> NO, I'M NOT!

>> HE IS SEASONED.

[LAUGHTER.]

>> I HAVE TIES OLDER THAN HIM.

THEY ARE CLIP-ON'S [LAUGHTER.]

>> I HATE THE OVER-USE OF TRANSFORMATIVE.

>> WE NEED TRANSFORMATIVE.

>> IT IS HOPEFUL.

I THINK IT IS A FINE IDEA.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN CRITICIZE IT.

>> I WILL FIND A WAY.

>> IT IS A WORSE IDEA TO KEEP OVER-PROMISING STUFF.

>> BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN -- >> -- PRIVATE COMPANY -- >> DOESN'T THAT MAKE YOU SKEPTICAL BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO -- THE STUDY.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE STUDY.

THEY SAY ON EVERY PAGE, LOOK, WE RELIED ON THE DATA AND ASSUMPTIONS PROVIDED BY THE CLIENT.

THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE TRUE AND THINGS CAN CHANGE THIS IN THE FUTURE.

AND LOOK AT PAGE 3, THIS THING MAY NOT HAPPEN.

MY PROBLEM OVER ALL, IT IS A 200 MILLION DOLLAR BIKE TRAIL.

THERE IS ONE FROM THE ARC TO THE CHAIN OF ROCK BRIDGE.

WHAT KIND OF REVENUE DID THAT BRING?

>> IT IS A NETWORK.

>> LET'S BUILD SOMETHING BIG, THE CONVENTION CENTER, THE STAYROSS-ADE STADIUSTAYEDISTADIUM.

WE NEED A RENAISSANCE AND PEOPLE ARE STILL MOVING OUT!

>> -- THIS IS GREAT, AND THE GREAT STUFF ABOUT DOWNTOWN.

THIS IS GREAT FOR CLAYTON.

>> IT IS -- >> [ALL TALKING AT ONCE].

>> BY THE WAY, THEY GOT A TIFF TO BUILD IN ST. LOUIS AND NOW IT IS POSITIVING OUT.

POISINELLI IS MOVING OUT.

>> IF YOU WANT TO ATTRACT PEOPLE, LITTLE COFFEE STORES, BAKERY.

THEY WANT A SIDEWALK WITH PEOPLE ON IT GOING IN AND OUT STORES.

LIKE KIRK WOOD.

>> DON'T UNDER-ESTIMATE THE CYCLISTS AND YOUNG PEOPLE BEING ATTRACTED TO AN URBAN AREA OR ANY KIND OF CITY.

THAT'S WHY I THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA.

YOU -- WE -- IT IS NOT JUST ANYBODY PUTTING OUT A REPORT FROM ERNST AND YOUNG.

I HAVE SAID THIS FOR 40 YEARS, EVERYONE HAS A TEAM.

EVERYBODY HAS A BASEBALL TEAM.

YOU HAVE TO BE BETTER THAN THIS.

YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR TOP LEADERSHIP DOING THIS.

>> REAL QUICK, FOR MY TIME, THERE IS A FORMULA FROM TURNING 75 CENTS TO 75 DOLLARS.

LITERALLY.

[LAUGHTER.]

>> THEY KNOW HOW TO DO THE CALCULATIONS.

>> THE CAMPAIGN -- >> THEY CAN CALCULATE THESE THINGS.

>> SPEAKING OF MONEY, JOE.

THERE WAS A STORY IN YOUR PAPER, I THINK IT WAS JACOB LOOKING AT REVEREND WEST.

AND HIS JOB WAS TO TAKE USDA MONEY AND PROVIDE LUNCHES TO THE KIDS.

AS IT TURNS OUT, HE IS USING MONEY TO USE A CHOPPER GOING TO HIS SERVICES.

THERE WAS NO ACCOUNTIBILITY >> AND NOW THEY HAVE A 900 THOUSAND DOLLAR HOUSE.

ARE WE THROWING OUT THE MONEY IN RECENT YEARS?

>> RECENT YEARS?

I SAY WE HAVE BEEN HANDING OUT MONEY FOR DECADES.

REVEREND WEST SAID NO LAWS WERE BROKEN.

[LAUGHTER.]

>> I BELIEVE HIM.

I BELIEVE THAT FEDERAL INVESTIGATORS SHOULD GO THROUGH HIS RECORDS WITH A FINE-TOOTHI FINE-TOOTHING COMB, AND WHEN THEY FIND NO WRONGDOING, THEN REVEREND WEST CAN HOLD THAT UP.

WHO WOULD HAVE THAT, THE GOVERNMENT SAYS LET'S OPEN IT ALL UP AND LET THE MONEY RUN OUT THAT A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE, NOT SAYING IT WAS THE REVEREND WEST OR ANYONE ELSE, BUT THAT A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF GOVERNMENT MONEY ENDS UP GOING TO FRAUD AND ABUSE.

IT ALWAYS DOES!

WHAT WE END UP DOING IS, WE LOOK AT THIS CASE, THAT CASE, THE PROBLEM IS JUST IDEA OF HUGE GOVERNMENT THROWING HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEYS -- >> NO ACCOUNTABILITY.

>> A MINUTE TO GO.

>> I WILL SAY THIS; I'M NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT REVEREND WEST, EAST, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY DID OR DIDN'T DO.

IN GENERAL, THE COUNTRY WAS, YOU KNOW, AND ORIGINALLY, IT WAS DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, AND UNDER JOE BIDEN, THE ECONOMY WAS SAVED BY THE GOVERNMENT THROWING OUT MONEY.

I COULD NOT AGREE WITH YOU MORE, THE AMOUNT OF FRAUD WHETHER IT IS THESE GUYS ON NOT, BUT THE AMOUNT OF FRAUD HAS BEEN JUST REALLY -- >> IT IS BAD.

>> DON'T PUT IT ON THE GOVERNMENT.

PUT IT ON LORD, BUY ME A MERCEDES BENZ.

HOPEFULLY WE WON'T HAVE TO DO THIS FOR ANOTHER ONE HUNDRED YEARS.

WE WILL HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE BIG TROUGH AND PEOPLE WILL STEAL OUT OF IT.

>> A BIG PERCENTAGE -- >> IN THE NAME OF RIGHT.

>> OKAY.

>> THAT IS THE LAST WORD ON THAT TOPIC.

>> WE GO TO THE OLD MAILBAG.

>> CONCERNING THE NATIONWIDE CAMPAIGN TO SELL ST. LOUIS.

OF COURSE WE SHOULD AND SOMEONE NEED TO REMIND THE BUSINESS LEADERS OF COMMUNITY PRIDE.

THAT IS FROM JAMES.

>> AND FROM BRUCE OF OAKVILLE.

GIVEN A SOLUTION?

RESTRICT ELIGIBILITY FOR THOSE WHO WENT TO PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES AND COMMUNITY COLLEGES.

PEOPLE WERE NOT FORCED TO TAKE OUT LOANS TO GO TO PRIVATE COLLEGES.

>> WRITE US, ST. LOUIS MISSOURI, DON'T FORGET THE E-MAILS, DONNYBROOK AT 9 PBS AND HASH TAG DONNYBROOK ST L. CALL THE NINE LINE, 512-9094.

DON'T FORGET TO LISTEN TO US ON APPLE, SPOTIFY, TUNE IN AND GOOGLE PLAY.

>> THANKS FOR JOE WHO SAT IN FOR BILL MCCLELLAN.

>>> HAVE A HAPPY HANUKKAH, MERRY CHRISTMAS, WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>ANNOUNCER: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF 9 PBS.