>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US ON THIS THE, THE PRE-VALENTINE'S DAY SPECIAL.

WE'LL SEE HOW MUCH LOVE IS ARP THE TABLE FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

THANKS FOR JOINING US, AND ON NEXT UP, WE'RE TALKING TO VALERIE PATTON, THE CHIEF DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION OFFICER FOR GREATER ST. LOUIS INC.

BUT FIRST, ALSO BEFORE THE SUPER BOWL, LET'S MEET OUR SUPER ROUNDTABLE STARTING WITH WENDY WIESE FROM THE BIG 550 KTRS.

MR. BILL McCLELLAN FROM THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH.

RAY HARTMANN FROM THE RFT, RAWSTORY.COM, AND THE BIG 550 COUNTY KTRS AND MR. ALVIN REID FROM THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN.

WE'LL START WITH YOU, ALVIN, QUESTION NUMBER ONE, THE GUN-TOTING CENTRAL WEST END COUPLE MARK AND PATRICIA McCLOSKEY THIS WEEK WERE IN FRONT OF THE SUPREME COURT.

EVERYONE KNOWS IN THE SUMMER OF 2020, THEY WIELDED FIREARMS IN FRONT OF THEIR MANSION, PLEADED GUILTY TO MISDEMEANOR, HARASSMENT AND ASSAULT.

THEN THEY WERE PARDONED BY THE GOVERNOR MIKE PARSON, BUT THEY ENDED UP IN FRONT OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE WHICH DECIDED THAT THEY WOULD HAVE THEIR LAW LICENSES SUSPENDED FOR ONE YEAR, BUT THEY'RE ON PROBATION.

IT'S SO -- IN EFFECT, THEY'RE ON PROBATION AND NOT SUSPENDED, BUT THE CHIEF DISCIPLINARY OFFICER FOR THE STATE SAID THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD THEIR LAW LICENSES SUSPENDED INDEFINITELY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, INDEFINITELY MAY HAVE BEEN TOO LONG, BUT WHEN I FIRST READ IT, I THOUGHT THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PRACTICE LAW FOR A YEAR, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS A FAIR PUNISHMENT IN THAT FROM EVERYTHING HE HAD SAID AND WHERE HE LIVES, THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD CHUNK OF MONEY.

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A FINE AND THAT WOULD HAVE COOLED YOUR HEELS FOR A YEAR AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU DID.

GRANTED, HE IS RUNNING FOR SENATE MAYBE FOR THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS ANYWAY, BUT I THOUGHT THAT WAS VERY LENIENT.

I THOUGHT THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN STOPPED FROM PRACTICING THE LAW FOR AT LEAST A YEAR.

YOU KNOW, THEIR TRANSGRESSION WAS SUCH THAT THEY PLED GUILTY AND REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE GOVERNOR DOES OR ANYBODY SAYS, YOU PLEADED GUILTY AND WHEN YOU PLEELD GUILTY, THAT MEANS -- PLEAD GUILTY, THAT MEANS SOME TYPE OF CRIME WAS COMMITTED.

>> I DISAGREE WITH YOU, ALVIN.

I THOUGHT THE PUNISHMENT WAS FINE.

DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION.

I THOUGHT THEY WERE GUILTY OF BEING BUFFOONS, BUT TO TAKE AWAY THEIR LIVELIHOOD, EVEN FOR A YEAR, I DIDN'T THINK WHAT THEY DID HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE PRACTICE OF LAW.

IT'S LIKE IF A LAWYER GETS CAUGHT FOR DUI, YOU KNOW, WHAT SHOULD -- SHOULD HE BE PUNISHED BY THE BAR?

I'D SAY NO.

>> BUT BILL, NO, I JUST -- I FIND IT -- I THINK IT'S PAST ITS EXPIRATION DATE FOR ME.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE FEEL THAT WAY.

I'M JUST TIRED OF READING ABOUT THEM.

>> AMEN.

>> GODSPEED, BUT I'M FINE WITH THIS PARTICULAR PUNISHMENT.

>> WELL, BILL IS RIGHT, BUT I READ IT DEFINITELY.

IN OTHER WORDS, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT THAT THEY PROBABLY DIDN'T, BY THE SUBSTANCE, BUT WHEN YOU'RE IN A CLASS OF PEOPLE THAT GETS PARDONED BEFORE YOU'RE CHARGED WITH A CRIME BY THE GOVERNOR AND WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT, TO ALVIN'S POINT, THIS IS NO PUNISHMENT AT ALL AND, IN FACT, FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, HIS PERSPECTIVE AS A U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE, IT'S AN ADVERTISING OPPORTUNITY, A FUNDRAISING OPPORTUNITY.

OH, I HAVE VICTIMIZED, THE DEEP STATE CAME AFTER ME.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

>> MY FEELING IS, SURE, HE SHOULD HAVE ENDED UP PAYING A REAL PRICE BECAUSE OTHERWISE HE ACTUALLY BENEFITED -- >> BUT RAY -- >> HE BENEFITED FROM -- >> RAY, THEY WERE FOUND GUILTY OR ACTUALLY PLEADED GUILTY IN JUNE OF 2021, BUT THE GOVERNOR PARDONED THEM IN AUGUST OF '21.

>> BUT HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO IT.

>> HE ANNOUNCED IT.

>> YEAH, BEFORE THEY WERE EVEN CHARGED.

>> HE ANNOUNCED IT BEFORE THEY WERE CHARGED.

>> THAT'S ACTUALLY THE BIGGER STORY.

>> SO MY POINT THE -- >> LET ME SAY THIS.

HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED WITH THEIR FIREARMS, THEY DIDN'T PULL THE TRIGGER, FOR ONE WAS HURT, THANK HEAVEN.

WHEN IT COMES TO IRRESPONSIBLE USE OF FIREARMS, IN OUR AREA, WE ALL KNOW THAT OFTEN GUN OWNERS LEAVE THEIR FIREARMS OUT THERE AND A 3-YEAR-OLD SHOOTS A 4-YEAR-OLD AND SOMETIMES THOSE INDIVIDUALS AREN'T CHARGED AT ALL.

>> BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ATTORNEYS -- >> IN A LOSS OF LIFE SITUATION -- >> I ALWAYS FORGET WHAT THAT TERM IS WHERE YOU TAKE YOUR -- >> AN OFFICER OF THE COURT?

>> OFFICER OF THE COURT.

YOU BASICALLY PROMISE NOT TO BE INVOLVED IN NONSENSE LIKE THIS AND WE SHOULD HAVE A BUFFOONERY STATUTE IN THE LAW.

IF I WAS EVER -- >> AS LONG AS THEY DON'T HAVE ONE IN THE MEDIA CLAUSE FOR THE MEDIA, WE'RE ALL RIGHT.

>> BOSLEY SR.

WHEN HE WANTED TO HAVE PEOPLE CANED -- >> YES, MICHAEL, WHAT WAS HIS NAME?

>> HE WAS TAKING IT TOO WIDE, UNTIL THEN I SUPPORTED HIM.

>> ACTUALLY, HE POINTED OUT HE USED TO WHIP HIS SON WHO AT THE TIME WAS THE MAYOR OF THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS.

>> WHAT WAS HIS NAME, MICHAEL -- >> FAYE.

>> DO YOU HAVE ONE IN THIS CENTURY?

>> OH, RAY HARTMANN, HOW ARE YOU, MY FRIENDS WITH HOW ABOUT CHARLIE DOOLEY, THE FORMER COUNTY EXECUTIVE FOR ST. LOUIS COUNTY, WAS APPOINTED TO, A MOUTH.

THE ST. LOUIS REGIONAL CONVENTION AND SPORTS COMPLEX AUTHORITY.

NOBODY CARES ABOUT THE BOARD, BUT NOW IT'S GOING TO OVERSEE $511 MILLION GIVEN TO THE REGION BY THE STAN KROENKE LAWSUIT.

SO THERE'S HALF A BILLION DOLLARS AT STAKE.

THOSE POSITIONS ARE IMPORTANT.

HE WAS PUT ON THE PANEL BUT THEN THIS WEEK IN A 2-3 VOTE, THE COUNTY COUNCIL SAID NO, WE DON'T WANT YOU ON THE PANEL.

NOW WE'RE NOT EVEN SURE IF HE'S GOING TO SIT ON IT OR NOT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

SHOULD CHARLIE DOOLEY BE ON THAT AUTHORITY?

>> FIRST OF ALL, I THINK HE EVENTUALLY WILL BE WHEN THE TWO PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T THERE COME BACK, I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF HE GETS ON.

UNDERSTAND, THE OBJECTION TO CHARLIE DOOLEY, HE IS AS QUALIFIED AS ANYONE IN THIS TOWN TO SERVE ON THE -- IT'S REALLY CALLED THE REGIONAL SPORTS AUTHORITY, AND PEOPLE OUGHT TO GET TO KNOW IT BECAUSE IT IS AN IMPORTANT BODY THAT ACTUALLY OWNS AND OPERATES THE DOME AND IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE DOING SO.

SO -- AND IT'S ALSO GOING TO BE KEY TO DIVIDING THE MONEY UP.

>> HERE COMES THE "BUT."

>> BUT NO -- >> BUT.

>> CHARLIE DOOLEY TOLD THE COUNTY COUNCIL THAT UPON DIRECT QUESTIONS THAT WHATEVER SAM PAGE WANTED IS WHAT HE WOULD DO, I THINK HE ESSENTIALLY BLEW UP HIS OWN QUALIFICATIONS AND THE ONE THING WE NEED IN THE RSA GOING FORWARD IS FOR IT TO BE A SERIOUS INDEPENDENT BODY.

THE LAST THING WE NEED IS SOMEBODY THAT'S WILLING TO SAY, YEAH, WHATEVER THE GUY THAT APPOINTED ME AND THAT GOES TO PARSON, TISHAURA JONES, ANYBODY.

>> BUT ISN'T THAT THE NATURE OF THESE APPOINTMENTS?

>> I WOULD HAVE VOTED AGAINST HIM FOR THAT REASON ONLY BECAUSE HE'S TOTALLY QUALIFIED OTHERWISE.

>> BUT ISN'T THAT THE NATURE OF THESE APPOINTMENTS?

>> IF YOU WANT FAILURE IT IS.

>> IT'S CALLED HONESTY AND PEOPLE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

>> I DISAGREE COMPLETELY WITH YOU WHEN YOU SAY THAT WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS, YOU KNOW, THESE 14 INDEPENDENT PEOPLE -- >> 11, 11.

>> 11.

I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE POLITICAL PARTIES, I THINK WE CHOSE BETTER CANDIDATES WHEN IT WAS GROUP OF POLITICAL LEADERS AND MAYBE LABOR GUYS AND THEY WOULD COME TO A CONSENSUS -- >> SMOKING CIGARS IF IN A BACK ROOM.

>> AS OPPOSED TO ALL OF A SUDDEN THESE RANDOM CITIZENS MAKING A DECISION ABOUT WHAT WE DO WITH THE MONEY.

>> WE'LL AGREE TO DIAGNOSIS AGREE.

>> BUT THESE RANDOM INNOCENTS ARE DULY ELECTED TO THE COUNTY COUNCIL, RIGHT?

>> DONALD TRUMP WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN NOMINATED IF HE WAS IN A ROOM WITH PARTY LEADERS.

>> GOOD POINT.

>> CHARLIE DOOLEY HAS GREAT INTEGRITY WHEN HE WAS COUNTY EXECUTIVE AND WOULD NEVER HAVE -- SAM PAGE IS THE ONE THAT COINED THE PHRASE THE POLICE BOARD WILL DO WHAT I TELL IT TO DO, WE HEARD ON TAPE.

>> YEAH.

>> CHARLIE DOOLEY NEVER DID THAT.

THE VOTE AGAINST -- >> WE KNOW THIS WASN'T A VOTE -- >> CHARLIE NEVER EXPECTED PEOPLE HE APPOINTED, WELL, YOU'RE GOING TO BE ON THE POLICE BOARD, BUT THE BOARD -- >> THIS WASN'T A VOTE AGAINST CHARLIE DOOLEY.

THIS WAS A VOTE AGAINST SAM PAGE.

>> WELL, YES AND NO -- >> CHARLIE SAID IT.

>> PEOPLE IMPLY THINGS, BUT HERE WE GO.

TIM FITCH, YOU CALL THE MAN CORRUPT, INSTRUMENTAL IN STEVE STENGER BEING THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE.

SHALONDA WEBB, YOU'RE MAD BECAUSE THE JAMESTOWN MALL AIN'T TORN DOWN YET BECAUSE IT'S A DUMP.

YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH CHARLIE DOOLEY THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS STADIUM, SPORTS COMPLEX, AND THAT'S WHAT BOTHERS ME.

>> I WILL SAY ONE THING ABOUT CHARLIE DOOLEY AND I THINK RAY IS CORRECT HISTORICALLY BECAUSE AT ONE POINT, HE DID APPOINT CHARLES DRURY S-- CHARLIE DOOLEY SR. TO THE CONVENTION BUREAU AND YOU KNOW HE DIDN'T DO THAT BECAUSE HE WANTED A YES MAN.

BILL McCLELLAN, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A TWITTER BATTLE BETWEEN THE MAY HAVE ST. LOUIS, TISHAURA JONES, AND A WOMAN WHO SEEMS TO HAVE A VERY CREDIBLE STORY THAT SHE'S THE VICTIM OF DOMESTIC ASSAULT.

THIS WOMAN, WHO SHALL REMAIN NAMELESS, LARGELY BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HER NAME, BUT SHE -- IN A TWITTER COMMENT, SHE SAID THAT THE MAYOR WAS DANCING AROUND WHEN SHE COULD HAVE BEEN WORKING TO MAKE THE CITY SAFER, AND THEN THE MAYOR RESPONDED, THAT'S NOT ME IN THE PHOTO.

WHEN IT WENT BACK AND FORTH AND THERE WERE SOME INSULTS.

MARK SCHLINDMAN HAD A STORY ON THIS AND I THOUGHT THIS TWITTER SPAT, DO YOU THINK MAYBE THE MAYOR SHOULD NOT ENGAGE IN TWITTER FIGHTS WITH DOMESTIC ASSAULT VICTIMS?

>> I DON'T THINK ANYBODY SHOULD BE ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

IT BRINGS OUT THE WORST IN PEOPLE AND THEY SPEAK WITHOUT THINKING.

I MEAN THE MAYOR WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER SERVED -- THE WOMAN WAS WRONG.

THE WOMAN SAID THE MAYOR WAS OUT DANCING AND THAT WASN'T THE MAYOR.

THE MAYOR WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH BETTER SERVED IF SHE WOULD HAVE CONTACTED THE WOMAN AND SAID, MA'AM, I WASN'T DANCING AND I FEEL BAD ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED FOR YOU, INSTEAD OF GETTING, YOU KNOW, ALL SNARKY AND SHE'S GOING TO LET HER HAVE IT BECAUSE -- AND THEN TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE, ERIC SCHMITT, WHO HAD NO DOG IN THE FIGHT, HAS TO LEAP IN, YOU KNOW, SHE'S A DISGRACE, TALKING ABOUT THE MAYOR.

AND I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, MR. SCHMITT, DON'T YOU HAVE SOME SCHOOL BOARD YOU NEED TO -- I MEAN, THERE'S WORK TO BE DONE BESIDES HIM GETTING IN THE TWITTER FIGHT.

I THINK THIS TWITTER STUFF IS NOT HEALTHY FOR ANYBODY.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU 100%.

THE ONLY THING I WOULD DEFER TO IS THIS IS WHERE I'M 61 AND THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THIS ARE IN THEIR 30s AND 40s, AND THEY'RE IN A DIFFERENT WORLD.

IF THEY CAME TO ME AND SAID, HEY, THIS WORKS FOR ME, OKAY?

YOU MAY NOT UNDERSTAND IT, ALVIN, BUT THIS WORKS FOR ME IN THE SEAT I'M SITTING IN NOW AND I COULDN'T ARGUE WITH THEM BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW.

BUT YEAH, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE STOOD DOWN TOO.

>> MAYOR JONES HAS -- SHE HAS RISEN THROUGH THE POLITICAL RANKS BY BEING THE GIRL NEXT DOOR, THE WOMAN NEXT DOOR, THE ONE WHO LOVED HER NEIGHBORHOOD, WHO WAS PROUD OF HER CITY, WHO FIGHTS FOR HER.

I WOULD SAY THAT NOT ONLY IS SHE INCREDIBLY ELEGANT, A WORD THAT WOULD BE USED TO DESCRIBE HER WOULD BE SCRAPPY.

SO I THINK THAT THERE IS A SCRAPPINESS ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

WE OF A CERTAIN AGE, WE ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.

WE DON'T MATTER TO MAYOR TISHAURA JONES AT THE END OF THE DAY.

I THINK THAT'S -- FOR ME, THAT'S THE WAY I'M READING IT.

>> IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TASTE, THOUGH.

IT'S LIKE A REPORTER, IF YOU ASK A POLITICIAN SOMETHING AND THE POLITICIAN TELLS YOU AND THEN LATER SAYS, WAIT A MINUTE, THAT'S OFF THE RECORD.

YOU GO, NO, THAT ISN'T.

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SAY THAT BEFORE.

>> RIGHT.

>> BUT IF A CITIZEN DOES THAT, IF SOMEBODY TELLS YOU SOMETHING AND SAYS LATER, HEY, DON'T USE THAT, THAT'S OFF THE RECORD, YOU DON'T SAY THOSE AREN'T THE RULES.

THEY DON'T EVEN REALIZE IT'S A GAME.

>> RIGHT, EXACTLY.

>> AND THAT'S THE WAY THE MAYOR SHOULD TREAT A CITIZEN.

>> BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE A BULLY.

IT LOOKS LIKE A BULLYING SITUATION, UNFORTUNATELY.

>> FIRST OF ALL, I CONSIDER MYSELF WAY YOUNGER THAN ALL OF YOU.

>> YES, WE KNOW YOU'RE -- >> YOU HAVE YOUR MENTAL SELF AND I'M NOT -- I DON'T TRUST ANYBODY OVER 30, BUT I THINK IT'S -- IT'S REALLY A TWO-PART THING, WHICH IS WHEN SHE WANTS TO GO AFTER ANOTHER POLITICIAN, SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, THEN I THINK IT'S GOOD ENTERTAINMENT, IT'S SMART, PARTICULARLY IF IT'S A BOTTOM FEEDER LIKE ERIC SCHMITT.

BUT I THINK YOU GENERALLY DON'T WANT, AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, TO BE SEEN IN ANY WAY IN CONFLICT WITH SOMEONE, JUST THE AVERAGE CITIZEN.

I DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD LOOK.

>> ESPECIALLY SINCE IT SEEMS TRUMP-ESQUE IN SOME WAYS TO BE INSULTING, AND I THINK THAT THE PREVIOUS PRESIDENT WAS THE WORTH AT GOING AFTER JOHN McCAIN AND HOW MANY OTHERS?

AT SOME POINT, THERE'S GOT -- THE PENDULUM HAS TO SWING IN THE OTHER DIRECTION WHERE EVERYBODY STARTS TAKING THE HIGH ROAD.

>> WE'RE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH ANYBODY BULLYING SOMEBODY ELSE.

>> OR THE APPEARANCE OF.

I WOULDN'T SAY SHE BULLIED THIS WOMAN.

>> JUST THE APPEARANCE.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND THERE'S SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT, HEY, YOU STARTED IT, OKAY.

>> RIGHT, BUT THE MAYOR WOULD -- >> IF HARRY TRUMAN HAD TWITTER, HE WOULD HAVE WENT OFF ON SOME PEOPLE, I GUARANTEE IT.

>> PROBABLY.

>> I WILL SAY THIS.

>> OKAY.

>> I TALKED ABOUT LUCAS KUNZ, MY BOY WHO I THINK WOULD HAVE A CHANCE, HE DROPPED AN F-GOM BOMB ON TWITTER -- F-BOMB ON TWITTER TODAY AND I WAS LIKE, I WOULDN'T THINK THAT WAS A GREAT STRATEGY.

>> WELL, HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GOVERNOR NIXON.

>> BUT THIS WAS A DIFFERENT CONTEXT, GENERICALLY ABOUT POLITICIANS AND IT WAS A PRETTY GOOD TWEET.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO WORK RIGHT NOW.

>> WENDY WIESE, I WANT ASK YOU ABOUT A REPORT THAT WAS ON SARAH FENG SKI'S PROGRAM LAST FRIDAY.

SHE TOOK A TURN AT THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS THAT DOESN'T HAVE A SHELTER YET.

THEY PUT THE CONTRACTS OUT IN OCTOBER AND HERE WE ARE, LATE JANUARY, EARLY FEBRUARY, THERE WAS AN ORGANIZATION CALLED BRIDGE OF HOPE MINISTRIES IN THE -- I BELIEVE THE -- TURNS OUT THEY THOUGHT THEY HAD A CONTRACT TO OPERATE SUCH A FACILITY, BUT THEY DON'T.

THE DIRECTOR OF HUMAN SERVICES FOR THE CITY SAID THEY DIDN'T CROSS ALL THE T'S AND DOT THE I'S, THEY NEEDED SOMETHING THAT WAS 24/7.

BUT WHAT I'M LOOKING AT IS, LAST YEAR THE CITY GOT $500 MILLION FROM THE FEDS AND NOW WE SAW IN TODAY'S PAPER OR YESTERDAY'S, THAT OF THE $135 MILLION PANDEMIC DOLLARS, ONLY $3 MILLION OF THAT HAS BEEN SPENT.

I'M THINKING, YOU GOT THE RESOURCES.

WHAT'S THE EXCUSE FOR NOT HAVING A SAFE HAVEN FOR THE HOMELESS IN FEBRUARY?

>> ESPECIALLY AFTER THE RECENT COLD SNAP WHERE THEY SAID SHE ACTUALLY DID HAVE -- THEY LOST A FEW PEOPLE.

A FEW PEOPLE ACTUALLY DIED OF EXPOSURE.

I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER AND WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS SARAH FENSKE WAS PROMISED ON JANUARY 3rd, A BRIDGE OF HOPE WAS HIRING WHEN THEY FOUND OUT THAT THE CONTRACT HAD BEEN RESCINDED.

AND I UNDERSTAND THAT JUST ABOUT EVERY AGENCY OUT THERE IS SHORT-STAFFED RIGHT NOW, BUT THIS IS THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS.

THIS IS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF OUR MOST VULNERABLE POPULATIONS, SO YOU WOULD THINK THAT THERE COULD BE SOME RESOLUTION, BUT NONE HAS BEEN OFFERED.

>> I THINK IT WAS A REALLY GOOD JOURNALISM, FIRST OF ALL, BECAUSE THEY -- I MEAN, A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE KIND OF LET IT SLIDE.

IT WAS ON HER SHOW THAT THIS SPOKESPERSON SAID THIS -- >> SKAGGS?

>> NO, McDUNN.

HE WAS A GOOD SPOKESMAN.

I'M GOING TO GUESS HE WAS MISINFORMED.

I DON'T THINK HE WOULD HAVE VOLUNTEERED THAT IF HE DIDN'T HAVE IT.

I THINK IT GOES TO THE SYSTEMIC PROBLEM.

KEEP IN MIND, TISHAURA JONES DIDN'T START THIS CITY GOVERNMENT.

THIS IS CITY GOVERNMENT THAT CAN'T MANAGE THE TRAFFIC LIGHTS, HISTORICALLY.

SO THEY INHERIT A LOT -- AND I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE EXCUSES FOR HER, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF DYSFUNCTION WITHIN THE CITY BUREAUCRACY -- >> AND IT FEELS LIKE PART OF IT -- >> IT'S STILL A PANDEMIC.

>> -- GOOD FOR THEM FOR CALLING IT OUT.

>> I HAD LUNCH WITH TOM VERNON TODAY.

TOM, THE LONG TIME DIRECTOR OF THE HOMELESS SHELTER AT PETER AND PAUL IN SOULARD, AND I ASKED PAUL -- ASKED TOM WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THIS SAFE HAVEN THING?

HE SAID I HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT IT, BUT IT'S REALLY A MATTER OF DEFINITIONS.

THE HUD DEFINITION FOR SAFE HAVEN HAS TO DO WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE SEVERE PROBLEMS WITH SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND IT'S THIS 24-HOUR CARE THING, AND THE REST OF US, AND I BET THE BRIDGE OF HOPE, WHEN THEY START SAFE HAVEN, THEY THOUGHT IT'S REALLY SOMEPLACE TO TAKE SOMEBODY IN AS A LAST RESORT.

BUT IT'S REALLY MORE THAN THAT, AND TOM SAID HE THINKS THEY JUST GOT MIXED UP ON DEFINITIONS.

>> BUT WOULDN'T THE ADMINISTRATION HAVE CLARIFIED THAT BEFORE PUTTING THE CONTRACTS IN ORDER?

THAT'S WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

>> ONE WOULD THINK SO.

>> THAT'S WHAT I -- >> I BET THEY WERE JUST IN A BIG HURRY TO DO SOMETHING -- >> AND THEN THE CITY COUNCIL OR SOMEBODY CAME BACK AND SAID, FYI, YOU REALLY SHOULDN'T -- >> IT'S NOT 24/7.

>> THERE'S FEDERAL MONEY INVOLVED.

>> I THINK IT'S EASIER TO SPEND -- THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS.

IT'S EASIER TO SPEND MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE THAN MONEY YOU HAVE.

>> AND YOU DON'T WORRY ABOUT CROSSING -- >> AND WE REALLY NEED TO BE CAUTIOUS BECAUSE THE FIRST THING PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SAY ABOUT THIS LUMP SUM OF MONEY IS WE'RE WASTING IT.

IF YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO MOVE THERE AND MOVE HERE, GIVE THEM A BREAK BECAUSE WE'RE JUST TRYING TO HELP THE HOMELESS, BUT NOW YOU GOT THIS BIG POT OF MONEY, LET'S BE CAREFUL, EVERY DOLLAR.

>> OKAY.

>> THAT'S HOW RICH PEOPLE STAY RICH I'M TOLD.

>> WELL, ALVIN, WHILE WE'RE TALKING TO YOU, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT A REPORT IN THE POST-DISPATCH ENTERING VIEW RICK ROSENFELD, CRIMINOLOGIST, FORMER GUEST OF OURS ON NEXT UP, AND HE'S A UNIVERSITY OF ST. LOUIS PROFESSOR WHO SAID HE TOOK A LOOK AT THE NUMBERS OF HOMICIDES LAST YEAR AND HE LOOKED AT THE NEIGHBORHOODS WHICH USE CURE VIOLENCE, WHICH IS THE MAYOR'S ANTI-HOMICIDE INITIATIVE, AND HE FOUND OUT THAT NEIGHBORHOODS THAT DIDN'T USE CURE-VIOLENCE HAD AT THE SAME OR LOWER HOMICIDE RATES THAN THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT DID USE CURE VIOLENCE AND HIS CONCLUSION WAS CURE VIOLENCE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE DOING THAT MUCH WORK FOR THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS, EVEN THOUGH IT'S COSTS $7 MILLION?

>> MY POINT IS, WHAT IS THE POINT OF YOUR STORY?

DID YOU WAKE UP MORNING AND SAY, I'M GOING TO COMPARE NEIGHBORHOODS -- WHERE DID THIS IDEA COME FROM.

AND THREE-FOURTH OF THE WAY INTO THE STORY, HE HAS HIS OWN DISCLAIMER IT IN.

HOW ABOUT YOU MAKE THAT THE LEAD OF THE STORY AND SEE IF THE STORY AND SEE IF PEOPLE CARE AFTER THAT.

ALL RIGHT, YOU ALL DON'T LIKE TISHAURA TOO MUCH DOWN THERE ON THE EDITORIAL PAGE.

LET'S NOT LET IT BLEED INTO THE FRONT PAGE.

>> AND CURE VIOLENCE IS A GOOD Y,D -- GOOD IDEA, I THINK, AND GOOD FOR TISHAURA JONES THAT SHE WANTS TO PUT THE EMPHASIS ON PREVENTION.

AND AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO KEEP SOUNDING LIKE I'M APOLOGIZING FOR WHAT THEY INHERITED, THE CRIME PROBLEM DIDN'T START LAST MONTH OR LAST YEAR AND IT'S NOT GOING TO BE SOLVED OVERNIGHT BY ANY -- WE LIVE IN IN INSTANT GRATIFICATION SOCIETY.

FRANKLY, IF THE NUMBERS HAD GONE DOWN IN THOSE AREAS IN CURE VIOLENCE, I WOULD HAVE SAID IT'S PREMATURE TO MAKE ANY YMENT.

>> I AGREE.

>> WE CAN'T DECIDE THAT QUICKLY -- >> DIDN'T TISHAURA JONES INHERIT FROM THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION?

>> RIGHT, SHE INHERITED IT FROM LYDA KREWSON AND I THINK LYDA KREWSON PUT IT IN FOR THE RIGHT REASONS AND YOU CAN'T -- THERE'S TOO MANY VARIABLES IN CRIME TO POINT TO ONE CRIME STATISTIC AND SAY -- >> THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT IMPRESSIVE A TRACK RECORD, CORRECT?

WE DISCUSSED CURE VIOLENCE BEFORE -- >> IT WAS A MIXED RECORD.

>> EXACTLY.

>> IT'S A PROGRAM -- >> 50-50.

>> ROSENFELD PREFERS SOMETHING CALLED FOCUSED DETERRENCE, WHICH IS PUT FORWARD BY A FORMER CLINTON ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL FROM HARVARD.

CURE VIOLENCE WAS REALLY PUSH BY LEWIS REED.

HE WANTED THIS PROGRAM, BUT STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT CURE VIOLENCE HAD A MIXED RECORD THROUGH ITS HISTORY.

>> WELL, CHICAGO.

ANYTIME YOU HAVE -- SERIOUSLY.

ANYTIME YOU HAVE AN ANTI-VIOLENCE PROGRAM THAT HAS ITS ROOTS IN CHICAGO, YOU THINK IT COULDN'T HAVE WORKED TOO WELL.

>> RIGHT.

>> BECAUSE CHICAGO IS -- >> MAYBE IN DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS, IT DID.

I WILL SAY THIS, GUN VIOLENCE MURDERS ARE DOWN FOR WHATEVER REASON IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS.

WHY ARE WE TAKING POT SHOTS, NO FUN INTENDED -- NO PUN INTENDED, AT ANYTHING.

>> WE STILL HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO, BUT THE FUNNY THING IS IF YOU LISTEN TO THE MAYOR CAREFULLY IN HER DEBATES WITH CARA SPENCER WHEN SHE WAS RUNNING FOR MAYOR, SHE SAID IN SEVERAL CASES THAT SHE WAS IN FAVOR OF FOCUSED DETERRENCE AND SO FAR, CURE VIOLENCE IS SOMETHING ELSE.

I'M KIND OF SURPRISED SHE'S NOT PUSHING TOWARDS FOCUSED DETERRENCE SINCE ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS IN THE CAMPAIGN, SHE SAID SHE WAS IN FAVOR OF IT.

>> EARLIER IN THIS PROGRAM, MY FELLOW FOUNDER DEFENDED SMOKE-FILLED ROOMS OUT OF CHICAGO.

I'M CONFUSED, ARE WE USING CHICAGO AS A MODEL TONIGHT OR NOT?

>> THE WHOLE COUNTRY USED TO HAVE SMOKE-FILLED ROOMS.

>> I THOUGHT MAYBE YOU WERE SELECTING CHICAGO.

>> BILL, YOUR NEWSPAPER ON SUNDAY HAD A MAJOR STORY ON A PLAN, I THINK IT'S CALLED THE BROOKLINE SOMETHING AND IT'S A $245 MILLION PROJECT, ABOUT $90 MILLION PUBLIC, $155 MILLION PRIVATE, THAT'S GOING TO WITH BIKE TRAILS CONNECT FOREST PARK, TOWER GROVE PARK TO THE GATEWAY ARCH, FAIRGROUND PARK.

FOUR PARKS, $245 MILLION AND THE PROMISES ARE THAT IT'S GOING TO LAND CEOs AND COMPANIES, GOING TO BREAK DOWN BARRIERS, IMPROVE OUR HEALTH, REDUCE CRIME, IT'S GOING TO LURE YOUNG HIGH-TECH WORKERS TO THE REGION.

I'M IN FAVOR OF TRAILS, BUT DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANY POSSIBILITY THEY'RE OVERSELLING THIS THING?

>> WELL, I LIKE SMOKE-FILLED ROOMS.

[ LAUGHTER ] WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD I LIKE -- LAST WEEK WE TALKED ABOUT BIKE PATHS AND I WAS ALL FOR THEM, AND IT'S GOOD AND IT'S YOUNG PEOPLE LIKE THEM.

WHEN I SAW $245 MILLION TO CONNECT THE PARKS, THAT SURE SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF MONEY.

>> WELL, THERE'S A NATIONAL RAIL-TO-TRAILS CONSERVANCY AND THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE GRANTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE, I BELIEVE TOTAL BETWEEN 7 AND $9 BILLION.

SO THIS IS -- THIS IS THE FUTURE.

WHETHER WE, WITH OUR LITTLE SHORT DINOSAUR ARMS, WHETHER WE WANT TO ADMIT IT, I DO -- I RESTATE WHAT I SAID LAST WEEK.

I RESTATE WHAT I SAID LAST WEEK.

THAT WE HAVE TO BE MORE LIKE CHICAGO AND SAN DIEGO AND NEW YORK AND NOT LESS LIKE THEM.

>> A MINUTE TO GO.

>> THAT'S WHAT BRICKLINE AND THE GATEWAY -- >> WE DON'T HAVE MASS TRANSIT TO THE LEVEL THESE OTHER PLACES DO.

THAT $245 MINUTE TO ME SHOULD BE WHATEVER THIS NOW NORTH-SOUTH, I THINK IT SHOULD GO EAST-WEST, DOESN'T THAT PAY FOR ABOUT ONE-FOURTH OF IT.

THROW A LITTLE MONEY IN THERE, AND WE CAN GET THAT LINE.

>> UNLIKE THAT SIDE OF THE TABLE, LIKE WENDY, I'M PRO-TREES.

IT'S A DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHY.

>> $245 MILLION MIGHT BUY A NICE SAFE HAVEN FOR THE HOMELESS.

>> GREAT RIVERS, GREAT TREES.

>> THAT'S ALL WE HAVE FOR THIS DISCUSSION.

LET'S SEE WHAT THE VIEWERS HAD TO SAY ABOUT LAST WEEK'S PROGRAM.

GOVERNOR PARSON' RECENT USE OF THE TERM CHRISTIAN VALUES HAVE ANGERED A NUMBER OF NON-CHRISTIANS WHO FELT IN POORN'S COMMENTS WERE EXCLUSIONARY.

THE GOVERNOR COULD HAVE AVOIDED HIS FIRESTORM BY USING THE TERM AMERICAN VALUES INSTEAD OF CHRISTIAN VALUES AND AS MR. PARSON MAY HAVE FORGOTTEN, OUR NATION'S CONSTITUTION ERECTED A WALL BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE.

THANK YOU.

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THAT'S IT FOR THIS DISCUSSION, BUT DON'T GO AWAY BECAUSE IN JUST A MOMENT, VALERIE PATTON, THE CHIEF DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION FOR GREATER ST. LOUIS INC. WILL BE OUR GUEST.

BILL AND WENDY WILL BE THROWING THE QUESTIONS HER WAY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

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