>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

HOPE YOU'RE ABLE TO SHOVEL OUT OF THIS WINTER MESS, AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING OUR GUEST.

TELL YOU WHAT, WE'RE GOING TO CHECK IN WITH GREG STOHR, ORIGINALLY FROM ST. LOUIS.

NOW HE COVERS THE SUPREME COURT FOR BLOOMBERG NEWS AND WE'LL JOIN US ON THE SECOND HALF, AND RAY AND I WILL PEPPER MR. STOHR SOME QUESTIONS.

DON'T MISS THAT ONE.

LET'S MEET OUR ALMOST FROZEN ROUNDTABLE STARTING WITH THE SNOW QUEEN HERSELF, WENDY WIESE IS FROM THE BIG 550 KTRS.

OLD MAN WINTER, BILL McCLELLAN FROM THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH.

RAY HARTMANN, HE'S BEEN SHOVELING EVERY THURSDAY NIGHT FOR 36 YEARS HERE ON THE NINE NETWORK.

HE'S ALSO WITH THE RFT, KTRS AND RAWSTORY.COM AND FUTURE BOBSLED COMPETITOR MR. ALVIN REID FROM THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN.

BILL McCLELLAN, WE'RE GOING TO KICK THINGS OFF WITH YOU.

IT WAS A WEIRD WEEK, I THINK, IN JEFFERSON CITY WHEN THE HEALTH DIRECTOR NOMINEE FOR STATE GOVERNMENT WAS TORPEDOED BY SENATE REPUBLICANS, EVEN THOUGH HE, DON KAUERAUF, WAS PROPOSED BY A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR, MIKE PARSON.

PARSON SAID IN A RELEASE THE NEXT DAY, HEY, KAUERAUF WAS A GREAT GUY.

HE WAS GUIDED BY CHRISTIAN VALUES.

SOME PEOPLE SAID, HEY, THIS IS MISSOURI AND IT'S 2022.

WE DON'T SAY THAT A FELLOW IS GUIDED BY CHRISTIAN VALUES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> OF ALL THE THINGS I CAN GET OFFENDED BY IN JEFF CITY, SOMEBODY SAYING THAT SOME OTHER PERSON IS GUIDED BY CHRISTIAN VALUES DOESN'T -- ISN'T ONE OF THE THINGS I'D BE OFFENDED BY.

I MEAN, CHRISTIAN VALUES MEANS -- IS SUPPOSED TO MEAN A CERTAIN KIND OF THING.

I MEAN, BEING CHARITABLE, BEING HONEST.

IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME AT ALL.

I MEAN, I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY INTERESTING THAT THAT GUY GOT TORPEDOED BY THE VERY MOB THAT MIKE PARSON HAS ENCOURAGED ALL THESE MONTHS AND YEARS AND NOW THEY'VE TURNED ON HIM.

THAT WAS VERY INTERESTING.

BUT TO SAY THAT A MAN HAS CHRISTIAN VALUES, YOU CAN SAY THAT ABOUT ME.

I WOULDN'T BE OFFENDED.

>> I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, BILL, I'M GUIDED BY CHRISTIAN VALUES, TOO.

NOW, I RUN OFF THE ROAD OFTEN, BUT REALLY, THAT DIDN'T OFFEND ME AND RIGHT ALONG THE SAME PATH, AS YOU SAID, THE STORY IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT GENTLEMAN IS NOT HUMOROUS, IT'S NOT ANYTHING OTHER THAN SCARY.

I MEAN, THIS IS JUST FLAT-OUT LIKE WE'RE STARTING TO GET INTO SOME 19, YOU KNOW -- >> '60s MOVIES, RIGHT?

IT'S ALMOST LIKE "CHILDREN OF THE CORN."

WHO KNEW THAT GOVERNOR PARSON WOULD LOOK LIKE TED KENNEDY COMPARED TO THE CONSERVATIVE CROWD THAT DERAILED HIS CHOICE, AND AS FAR AS BEING GUIDED BY CHRISTIAN VALUES OR PRINCIPLES OR WHAT HAVE YOU, I WOULD HOPE THAT TODAY, AS YOU SAID, CHARLIE, IN 2022, WE HAVE MUSLIM MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, WE HAVE MUSLIMS SERVING AT STATE LEVELS ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY.

I WOULD HOPE IF THEY SAID I AM GUIDED BY MY MUSLIM PRINCIPLES, THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE A CACOPHONY OF BLOWBACK OVER IT.

>> THERE WOULD BE, WENDY.

>> BUT THERE WOULD BE.

THERE WOULD BE, AND LET ME JUST SAY, I'LL DISAGREE.

I'M JEWISH, I DON'T SPEAK FOR ANYBODY ELSE WHO'S JEWISH.

I'M NOT GOING TO USE THE WORD OFFENDED BECAUSE I'M NOT OFFENDED BY IT BUT I DON'T LIKE IT.

J.B. PRITZKER IS JEWISH AND IF PEOPLE WERE OFFENDED BY HIS JEWISH VALUES -- NOT ON THIS PANEL.

I AGREE WITH ALL OF YOU ABOUT THE POOR GUY, KAUERAUF OR WHATEVER HIS NAME IS, THAT'S JUST SORT OF THE FRANKENSTEIN MONSTER DON'T LOOK SO GOOD WHEN HE GETS UP OFF THE TABLE AND THEY CREATED THIS MONSTER AND THEY'RE GOING TO LIVE WITH IT.

BUT AS FAR AS THE CHRISTIAN THING -- >> I THINK RAY'S RIGHT, AND BY THE WAY, RAY, YOU'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THIS ON SHOW ON 550 TONIGHT, I KNOW.

IT'S US VERSUS THEM.

IF IT WAS A JEWISH GOVERNOR SAYING HE HAD WONDERFUL CHRISTIAN VALUES, THAT WOULD BE INCLUSIVE AND MAGNANIMOUS, BUT FOR A CHRISTIAN TO SAY, OUR GUY, OUR GUY HAS OUR CHRISTIAN VALUES.

I DON'T LIKE THAT.

I THINK IT MAKES SOME PEOPLE FEEL LIKE THEY'RE ON THE OUTSIDE.

>> I DO THINK THERE ARE MEMBERS OF THE MEDIA, I THINK THERE ARE MEMBERS -- I MEAN, THERE ARE JUST CITIZENS WHO WOULD APPLAUD THE SAME SITUATION IN REVERSE IF WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ISLAM.

>> HERE'S THE DEAL.

A LOT OF PEOPLE -- RIGHT NOW WE'RE WELCOMING, HOPEFULLY GOING TO WELCOME AFGHAN MUSLIM, MANY OF THEM -- >> EXACTLY, RAY.

>> -- AND I'LL TELL YOU IF I WERE COMING TO THIS COUNTRY AND I HEARD THE GOVERNOR AS A MUSLIM TALK ABOUT CHRISTIAN VALUES, I DON'T THINK I WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE.

WE HAVE GREAT COMMUNITIES OF BUDDHISTS, HINDUS, BUT THE POINT IS, IT'S GREAT FOR YOU TO SAY -- WELL, THEY ARE NOT, NOT TO MENTION ATHEISTS AND AND GNOSTICS DO NOT WANT TO HEAR THIS.

>> I THINK WHAT YOU'RE HOLDING AGAINST THE GOVERNOR IN THIS CASE IS HIS POLITICS AND WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT USING THE TERM CHRISTIAN VALUES, BECAUSE IF A BLACK MINISTER IN THE MIDDLE OF A SERMON, THING ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS, SAID -- THINKING ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS, SAID CHRISTIAN VALUES SHOULD GUIDE US TO A PLACE WHERE WE DON'T HAVE THESE STUPID VOTING LAWS AND WE TAKE BETTER CARE OF MINORITY PEOPLE, NOBODY WOULD HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT.

>> IT'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION.

>> IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT.

>> IT'S NOT, RAY.

>> A MINISTER IN A SERMON, I HOPE THEY WOULD USE -- >> RAY, CHRISTIAN VALUES IN THIS COUNTRY IS LIKE A CLICHE AND TO BE -- YOU SAY YOU'RE NOT OFFENDED BY IT.

YOU ACT VERY OFFENDED BY IT.

>> I'M NOT OFFENDED BY IT.

>> LET ME COME TO RAY'S DEFENSE -- >> IT'S LIKE THIS CANCEL CULTURE OR -- UNTIL RECENTLY -- >> GREAT POINTS MADE BY EVERYONE, BUT AS AN EXIT, I JUST THINK WE'VE COME TO A WEIRD AREA RIGHT NOW WHERE THE HEALTH DIRECTORS ARE ALWAYS CONTROVERSIAL, WLINS THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS, ST. LOUIS COUNTY AND NOW AT THE STATE LEVEL.

WHERE ARE WE IN THIS WORLD?

>> THE PANDEMIC.

>> WENDY WIESE, JOSH HAWLEY, THE JUNIOR SENATOR FROM THE -- ONCE GREAT STATE OF MISSOURI, WE'LL PUT IT THAT WAY -- I'M GIVING NOW, A CHANCE.

IT COULD REFORM ITSELF AT SOME POINT.

BUT MR. HAWLEY ALSO AT ODDS WITH THE WHITE HOUSE OVER ITS FOREIGN POLICY.

TROOPS WILL BE SENT TO UKRAINE OR AT LEAST JUST OUTSIDE OF IT, AND AT THE SAME TIME, THE PRESIDENT HASN'T SAID, PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN, THAT THE UNITED STATES WILL DEFINITELY NOT ASK UKRAINE TO JOIN NATO AND HAWLEY IS AFRAID IF UKRAINE IS IN NATO, WE'LL END UP DEFENDING IT IF RUSSIA INVADES.

SO HE SAYS OUR RESOURCES SHOULD BE SPENT ELSEWHERE LIKE IN THE PACIFIC, MORE CONCERNED WITH CHINA.

I THINK HAWLEY MAKES A GOOD POINT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> AS HARD AS THIS IS TO BELIEVE AND I AGREE WITH YOU AND SENATOR HAWLEY, CHARLIE, BECAUSE I WAS READING AN OPINION PIECE IN THE WASHINGTON POST AND WHILE IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND, FREEDOM YAY!

THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS.

AND THAT AFTER THE 2004 ORANGE REVOLUTION IN UKRAINE, THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT USHERED IN A PRO-WESTERN PRESIDENT.

SO IF YOU HAVE SOMEBODY WHO IS BASICALLY -- I MEAN, HE'S AN OUGHT TO ACCURATE, AES -- AUTOCRAT, A DICTATOR, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL HIM, HE'S ALSO VERY AGGRESSIVE AND VERY CHUMMY -- HE AND CHINA, THEY ARE INCLINED AT THIS MOMENT, AND IF UKRAINE DOES BECOME A MEMBER OF NATO, THAT WOULD BE TANTAMOUNT TO A DECLARATION OF WAR ACCORDING TO SENATOR HAWLEY.

>> NO, I DISAGREE COMPLETELY.

I'M SORRY, BUT FIRST OF ALL, I NEVER THOUGHT I'D SEE THE DAY WHEN ANY REPUBLICAN WOULD BE PRO RUSSIA AND PRO VLADIMIR PUTIN.

>> I DON'T THINK IT IS, RAY.

>> I MOST DEFINITELY IS.

LISTEN TO TUCKER CARLSON OR ONE OF HIS MENTORS.

>> I DON'T LISTEN TO TUCKER CARLTON.

>> THE EXTREME RIGHT JUST HAPPENS TO BE PRO PUTIN IN THIS CASE AND I THINK IT'S A MAY MORAL, IMMORAL POSITION IF WE CAN'T STAND -- I DON'T HAVE A POSITION ON WHETHER UKRAINE SHOULD JOIN NATO, BUT IF WE CAN'T STAND FOR A DEMOCRATIC ALLY AGAINST A MURDEROUS DICTATOR, KGB-RAISED IN VLADIMIR PUTIN -- >> SOUNDS LIKE VIETNAM ALL OVER AGAIN, RAY.

>> ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS THINK OF EUROPE IN THE '30s AND WHEN HITLER SAID I WANT -- WHAT WAS IT, THE PART OF CZECHOSLOVAKIA AND NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN SAID PEACE IN OUR TIME AND HE THOUGHT BY APPEASING HITLER, WE AVOID WAR AND JUST THE OPPOSITE HAPPENED.

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN LET VLADIMIR PUTIN DICTATE WHAT OUR POLICY IS.

I MEAN, I THINK -- >> I JUST -- AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

I JUST THINK THAT -- I THINK WE'RE GOING TO NEED SOMETHING OF A VELVET HAMMER WITH THIS GUY AND I DON'T THINK -- >> I AGREE.

>> AND I DON'T THINK THAT THINGS ARE AS SIMPLE AS THEY APPEAR TO BE.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS, LIKE, CHAMBERLAIN AND HITLER AND APPEASEMENT.

>> BUT TO BILL'S POINT, THE SOVIET TANKS ROLLED INTO HUNGARY IN 1954, WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING.

THE SOVIET TANKS ROLLED INTO CZECHOSLOVAKIA IN 1968, WE STOOD BY.

WE JUST GOT OUT OF A 20-YEAR QUAGMIRE IN AFGHANISTAN.

AREN'T WE LEARNING ANYTHING?

>> YEAH, I'VE LEARNED THAT SOMEBODY STILL HAS THE HAND UP JOSH HAWLEY'S SOCK PUPPET'S BRAIN AND IS GOING LIKE THIS AND THAT'S ALL THE THOUGHT THAT YOU CAN GET.

>> HE SHOULD BE ADDRESSED AS INSURRECTIONIST JOSH HAWLEY.

>> AND THOSE OTHER COUNTRIES YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, CHARLIE, THEY WERE COMMUNIST, PART OF THE SOVIET UNION EMPIRE, AND, YOU KNOW, UKRAINE IS AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT PUTIN SHOULD BE ABLE TO SAY I'M GOING TO GO IN THERE AND YOU BETTER BACK OFF AND US GO, OF COURSE WE'LL BACK OFF.

>> LET'S THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A MOMENT, GUYS.

SINCE THE COLD WAR ENDED, WE INVITED 14 COUNTRIES TO ENTER NATO, RIGHT?

IMAGINE IF RUSSIA WERE DOING THAT IN CENTRAL AMERICA, FORMING SOME SORT OF MILITARY ALLIANCE IN OUR BACKYARD.

>> WE HAVEN'T GENERALLY OPERATED ON THAT SORT OF MORAL EQUIVALENCY, IF YOU WILL.

PLUS, KEEP IN MIND, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A UNILATERAL ACTION AGAINST RUSSIA BY THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WORKING WITH OUR NATO ALLIES WITH WHOM WE ARE COMMITTED IN EUROPE, COLLECTIVELY, AND I CAN'T IMAGINE A REPUBLICAN POLITICIAN BEING AGAINST A STRONG NATO, STANDING TOGETHER AGAINST THIS THREAT.

>> WELL, LET'S MOVE ON, ALVIN REID, TO SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE LOCAL.

TURNS OUT MORE KIDS ESCAPED FROM LOCAL DETENTION FACILITIES IN THE LAST WEEK.

AND SO NOW THAT BRINGS TO 19 THE NUMBER OF TEENS WHO HAVE ESCAPED FROM EITHER THE ENRIGHT ROSE FACILITY OR THE HOGAN STREET FACILITY IN OUR AREA.

BOTH ARE OPERATED BY STATE COWERS, ONE THE 22nd JUDICIAL AND THE OTHER BY THE DEPARTMENT OF YOUTH SERVICES.

19 KIDS ESCAPING DETENTION AND SOME OF THEM ARE IN THERE ON HOMICIDE CHARGES.

MY QUESTION IS, ARE WE JUST LIVING IN AN AGE OF INCOMPETENCE OR IS THIS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME AND WE NEVER REALLY NOTICED?

>> I WOULD SAY INCOMPETENCE AND THEN ALSO WHENEVER YOUR STRUCTURAL, PHYSICAL BEING OF THE CENTERS ARE.

I JUST THINK THAT IT'S A MATTER OF EITHER A DOOR NOT WORKING OR A DOOR NOT BEING LOCKED.

I DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE MASTERMINDING ESCAPES AND MAKING KEYS OUT OF SOAP BARS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THROWING SHEETS OVER THE SIDE OF THE WALL.

I THINK THEY'RE JUST WALKING OUT, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT BECAUSE THEY DON'T RELEASE TOO MANY DETAILS, BUT I WOULD JUST LIKE TO GO BACK AND HAVE EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM EXPLAIN HOW IT HAPPENED, AND I THINK EVERY ONE OF THEM PROBABLY COULD HAVE BEEN STOPPED.

>> WELL, THEY HAVE 30 KIDS IN -- AT LEAST AT THE HOGAN STREET CENTER, SO HOW ABOUT WE REDUCE THE NUMBER OF KIDS?

HOW ABOUT WE PUT 15 KIDS?

MAYBE IF WE JUST -- BECAUSE I KNOW WE PROBABLY DON'T HAVE THE STAFF THAT -- I MEAN, ACCESSIBLE MEMBERS OF STAFF TO TAKE CARE OF IT, BUT LET'S REDUCE THE NUMBER AND SEE IF THAT HELPS.

BUT 30 KIDS WHO ARE LOOKING TO GET OUT, IF YOU HAVE MAYBE ONE SUPERVISOR OR TWO SUPERVISORS, I MEAN, THAT'S -- I THINK ALL FIVE OF US WOULD BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF A PLACE LIKE THAT WITHOUT A LOT OF SECURITY.

>> HOW WOULD WE GET OUT?

>> AS YOU SAID, IT MIGHT BE AS SIMPLE AS JUST WALKING OUT THE DOOR OR AN OPEN WINDOW.

>> NO, THEY ATTACKED A GUARD WITH A SHANK AND IN ANOTHER CASE, THEY THREW BLEACH IN A GUARD'S FACE AND THEY OVERPOWERED HIM AND GOT KEYS TO THE CAR IN THE PARKING LOT.

YOU'RE RIGHT, WENDY, MAYBE THEY'RE POORLY STAFFED, POORLY TRAINED AND MAYBE THE FACILITIES ARE OLD.

>> OR COMBINED PROBABLY.

>> BUT THE STORY OF THE LOCKS NOT WORKING AT THE JAIL FOR THE ADULTS DOESN'T GIVE ME MUCH COMFORT, I DON'T SAY.

>> I HATE TO BE ARGUING WITH WENDY ALL NIGHT, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU CAN JUST ARBITRARILY SAY LET'S HAVE FEWER PEOPLE DETAINED IF IN FACT -- >> YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH BAITING?

>> IF THERE'S REALLY A PROBLEM, ALVIN REFERRED TO IT BEING SYSTEMIC AND I THINK IT'S SMART TO DO SO, WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT -- AND I KNOW THIS IS GOING TO SOUND POLITICAL, BUT IF YOU LIVE IN A STATE THAT CONTINUALLY UNDERFUNDS ALL OF ITS SERVICES, INCLUDING CORRECTIONS, INCLUDING THIS KIND OF SERVICES, THIS IS WHAT YOU GET AND THE ANSWER PROBABLY IS INSTEAD OF SAYING WE'RE UNDERSTAFFED AND AS ALVIN POINTS OUT, PROBABLY GOT OUTDATED BUILDINGS, MAYBE WE OUGHT TO PUT SOME OF THE RESOURCES THAT ARE PRESUMABLY FLOWING AROUND JEFF CITY INTO NOT BEING UNDERFUNDED.

>> THERE'S ANOTHER THOUGHT, TOO.

I DON'T KNOW THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT OF THIS, BUT IT MIGHT BE THAT KIDS HAVE ALWAYS ESCAPED.

I LOOKED UP ONCE ABOUT JAMES EARL RAY WHEN HE ESCAPED FROM THE STATE PRISON IN JEFFERSON CITY, AND WE HAD JUST A LITTLE BITTY STORY ON THE INSIDE ABOUT A ST. LOUIS MAN ESCAPING FROM PRISON WHEREAS NOW IF SOMEBODY ESCAPES FROM PRISON OR JAIL, IT'S A HUGE DEAL.

MAYBE THINGS AREN'T A WHOLE LOT WORSE WITH JUVENILES THAN THEY EVER HAVE BEEN.

>> THAT'S A GOOD POINT, ABOUT I WILL.

IN TERMS OF THE BUDGET CRUNCH, THE LACK OF POLICE OFFICERS, THE MURDER RATE, IT MIGHT JUST BE SORT OF A PERFECT STORM.

MAYBE IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN LIKE THIS.

YOU JUST DON'T KNOW.

>> LET ME ASK YOU, ALVIN, ABOUT A COUPLE OF STORIES HERE.

ONE, CONGRESSWOMAN CORI BUSH INSISTS HER CAR WAS HIT BY GUNFIRE.

SHE HASN'T RELEASED PHOTOS OF THE CAR.

SHE'S FINE, AND SHE HASN'T FILED A POLICE REPORT TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE.

FOX NEWS IS WRITING THAT SHE AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE SO-CALLED "SQUAD" HAVE SPENT ABOUT 200- TO $300,000 ON PRIVATE SECURITY WHILE CALLING TO DEFUND THE POLICE AND AT HOME, HARRIS-STOWE COMMUNITY COLLEGE WAS THE TARGET OF A BOMB THREAT AND IT'S ONE OF, I THINK, 17 HISTORICALLY BLACK COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES IN THE NATION TO RECEIVE SUCH THREATS RECENTLY.

WELL, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF ALL THESE STORIES?

>> WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T TIE, LIKE, THE BOMB THREAT IN WITH THE CORI BUSH, YOU KNOW, BUT THAT'S KIND OF EXACTLY WHAT I'M GOING TO DO.

IF I WAS CORI BUSH, A MEMBER OF THE SO-CALLED SQUAD, A CONGRESS PERSON, OR I WORKED IN THE SENATE, WHATEVER MY SECURITY WAS AND I'D BEEN THERE A WHILE, LET'S SAY EIGHT YEARS AGO, TEN YEARS AGO, WHATEVER IT WAS, IT MIGHT BE DOUBLE NOW BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE ARE DANGEROUS NOW.

I THINK A LOT MORE PEOPLE ARE A LOT MORE DANGEROUS AND WOULD BRING HARM TO ME OR ANYONE OF DIFFERING POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY.

YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST -- IT'S TERRIBLE TO SAY THAT, BUT MY OPINION ON THAT HAS CHANGED.

TEN YEARS AGO, I WOULD HAVE SAID I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY NEED TO SPEND ALL THAT MUCH ON SECURITY, AND NOW I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT BECAUSE I THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT ARE DRIVEN, NOT -- THE ONES THAT ARE DOING THE TALKING IN WASHINGTON, D.C., AND LIKE IN THE STATE CAPITOL, THEY'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING EXCEPT RUN THEIR MOUTH, BUT THEY'RE WHIPPING PEOPLE INTO A FERVOR THAT'S DANGEROUS, SO I GOT NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

HARRIS-STOWE, THE 17 COLLEGES, OR THEY WERE ONE OF 17 COLLEGES, IT'S SHAMEFUL AND IT'S A LOT OF WORK, BUT ALSO IT'S A REALITY.

EVERY ONE OF THOSE COLLEGES BETTER MAKE SURE THEY CHECK IN EVERY CLOSET AND UNDER EVERY BED AND SHUT DOWN BECAUSE LIKE IN YEARS IN THE PAST, OKAY, HA HA, YOU MADE A BIG DEAL OF THREATENING THESE SCHOOLS IN BLACK HISTORY MONTH, YOU MADE YOUR POINT.

BUT NO, I THINK IT'S FRIGHTENING BECAUSE ONE COULD BE REAL.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, ALVIN, I AGREE ABOUT PEOPLE BEING MORE DANGEROUS NOW AND PEOPLE BEING EGGED ON TO DO TERRIBLE THINGS, BUT THE PROBLEM WITH CORI BUSH IS NOT THAT SHE HAS HIRED MORE SECURITY.

IT'S THAT AT THE SAME TIME, SHE'S HIRING MORE SECURITY, SHE'S TALKING ABOUT DEFUNDING THE POLICE FOR THE REST OF THE PEOPLE.

AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

I MEAN, BECAUSE THE STREETS ARE DANGEROUS TOO.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT CORI BUSH SEEMS TO REALIZE THAT.

>> I DISAGREE.

I THINK THAT CORI BUSH -- FIRST OF ALL, I DISAGREE WITH CORI BUSH ABOUT ANY USE OF DEFUNDING THE POLICE.

I HAVE SINCE THE BEGINNING, BUT I THINK THAT I DON'T BEGRUDGE ANY MEMBER OF CONGRESS, HOWEVER FAR RIGHT THEY ARE, HOWEVER FAR LEFT THEY ARE, IRRESPECTIVE OF THEIR VIEWS ON ANY ISSUE, AT THIS POINT I DON'T THINK THERE IS SUCH A THING AS SPENDING TOO MUCH MONEY ON SECURITY.

>> NO, I'M NOT SAYING THERE IS.

>> WELL, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT IT'S REALLY IRRELEVANT TO ME WHETHER SHE THINKS -- AND KEEP IN MIND, AGAIN, I HATE THAT PHRASE DEFUNDING THE POLICE, I DON'T USE IT, BUT THOSE FOLKS ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SPEND MORE ON PREVENTION AND MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES.

YOU CAN DISAGREE WITH THEM, BUT THEY'RE NOT ADVOCATING THAT THEY'RE NOT BEING -- >> I THINK CORI BUSH DOES ADVOCATE TO -- >> IT'S IRRELEVANT TO HER SECURITY NEEDS JUST LIKE WHATEVER CRAZY STUFF LAUREN BOEBERT OR MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE THAT CREATES MORE SECURITY NEEDS, THAT'S STILL IRRELEVANT.

THEY NEED PROTECTION.

>> I AGREE WITH WHAT ALVIN IS SAYING ABOUT THE MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS.

EVERY SINGLE DAY, THERE SEEMS TO BE ANOTHER STORY ABOUT SUICIDAL IDEATION AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO NEED ACCESS, WHO ARE NOT DIAGNOSED, WHO NEED TO BE TREATED, AND IF YOU ADD, AS YOU SAID, SOMEBODY STOKING THE FLAMES, THEN YOU REALLY COULD HAVE A TRAGEDY.

ANOTHER TRAGEDY LIKE JANUARY 6th.

>> I THINK BILL MAKES SENSE.

I MEAN, IT'S NOT LIKE CONGRESSWOMAN BUSH IS SAYING, HEY, I'LL HIRING COUNSELORS AND SOCIAL WORKERS TO SURROUND ME AS SHE AND OTHERS HAVE SUGGESTED WHEN IT COMES TO CRIME IN THE STREETS.

SHE'S HIRING SECURITY GUARDS, WHICH IS WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WANT MORE POLICE WANT, SECURITY GUARDS.

>> IF SHE WANTED MORE FUNDING FOR POLICE, IT'S OKAY TO MEET HER SECURITY NEEDS?

>> RAY, YOU DON'T SEE A CONTRADICTION?

>> NO, I DON'T.

>> NO, I REALLY DON'T.

I HONESTLY -- I DON'T.

I MEAN, AND RAY EXPLAINED IT BEAUTIFULLY LIKE I WAS TRYING TO WHEN HE SAID REGARDLESS, YOU'RE FAR RIGHT, YOU'RE FAR LEFT, AND THE THINGS YOU SAY MAY ADD TO THE THREAT TO YOU, THAT DOES NOT MATTER WHATSOEVER.

>> OKAY, LET'S MOVE ON TO BIKE LANES.

A PROPOSAL -- ACTUALLY A PLAN RELEASED THIS WEEK HAS SUGGESTED, RAY, THAT THERE SHOULD BE A BIKE LANE ON TUCKER GOING DOWN TO SHOW THE CHOTE TOW, ONE ON COMPTON CROSSING 64/40 AND ON SOUTH BROADWAY AND THE MONEY IS FEDERAL.

FEDERAL DOLLARS FOR LOCAL BIKE LANES.

DOES THAT REMIND YOU A LITTLE OF THE LOOP TROLLEY WHERE IT WAS SO INVITING BECAUSE, AFTER ALL, WE DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.

TAKE A RIDE DOWN MEMORY LANE.

HOW DID THAT WORK OUT, RAY?

>> WELL, MAYBE WE TAKE A BIKE RIDE DOWN MEMORY LANE.

IS THAT CONTROVERSIAL?

>> WE'RE $30 TRILLION IN DEBT RIGHT NOW.

YOU DON'T NOTICE THAT?

>> THE IDEA THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD FUND PROGRAMS AROUND THE COUNTRY -- AND I KNOW YOU THINK WE SHOULD UNILATERALLY NOT PARTICIPATE, WHICH WOULD ENCOURAGE AND MAKE THE COMMUNITY SAFER AND MORE, I GUESS, MOBILE, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT AND MORE ACCESSIBLE FOR PEOPLE WHO RIDE BIKES, BECAUSE WE SHOULD PUT IT ALL INTO AUTOMOBILES, I THINK IT'S A VERY GOOD PRIORITY FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO INVEST IN IN COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

I THINK IT CAN ONLY BE GOOD FOR ST. LOUIS, AND I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE IT WOULD BE CONTROVERSIAL.

>> I AGREE WITH RAY!

IT'S AMAZING!

IT'S ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!

WE'VE GOT -- >> MAKE A HABIT OF IT.

>> WE HAVE THE BRICK LINE COMING IN.

I THINK WE HAVE TO, AS MUCH AS THE OLD FUDDY-DUDDIES ON THE PANEL, WHICH I'M PROUD TO COUNT MYSELF LIKE YOU, WE HAVE TO BE MORE LIKE THE BROOKLYNS, THE NEW YORKS, THE SAN DIEGOS, THE SEATTLES, THE CHICAGOS AND LIKE METROPOLITAN AREAS WHERE YOUNG PEOPLE ACTUALLY DO, THEY DO SORT OF TURN TO CYCLING AS A WAY OF TRANSPORTATION, AS THEIR MAIN FORM OF TRANSPORTATION.

AND APPARENTLY IF YOU HAVE THESE DEDICATED BIKE PATHS, YOU HAVE A LOT FEWER FATALITIES.

YOU HAVE A GREATER -- OR A DECREASED RISK OF INJURIES.

I THINK IT'S A WIN-WIN UNLESS THE BIKE PATH GOES FROM DELMAR TO THE HISTORY MUSEUM, CHARLIE.

IF THAT'S THE CASE, I AGREE WITH YOU.

>> I LIKE THE BIKE PATHS, TOO, AND I'M NOT HERE TO ARGUE THAT WE SHOULD HAVE A -- FOR OLD PEOPLE WALKERS LANES.

I AGREE WITH YOU GUYS.

IF WE WANT TO HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE HERE AND EVERYBODY THINKS WE SHOULD, BIKE LANES MAKE A LOT OF SENSE AND IF THEY SAID THEY'RE GOING TO PAY FOR THEM -- >> THIS WOULD BE LOW IMPACT COMPARED TO DIGGING UP THE STREET AND PUTTING IN TROLLEY CAR TRACKS.

>> EXACTLY.

>> AND ALL THAT.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT ALL IT ENTAILS, BUT -- >> THEY'RE DUGGING UP TUCKER.

AND THIS MAKES SENSE, I THINK, ALVIN.

THEY'RE GOING TO REDUCE IT FROM EIGHT LANES TO FOUR, PUT A MEDIAN IN THE MIDDLE AND ALL THAT'S FINE, BUT WE ALREADY HAVE THE ONE-TENTH OF ONE PERCENT SALES TAX THAT GOES TOWARD, YOU KNOW, THE TRAILS, THE GREENWAY, SO WE ALREADY HAVE THAT LOCALLY, BUT, YOU KNOW, A MILLION HERE, A MILLION THERE, BEFORE YOU KNOW IT, YOU ARE $30 TRILLION IN DEBT AND THESE ARE THE SAME ARGUMENTS WE USED FOR THE LOOP TROLLEY WAS SO IMPORTANT AND IF WE DON'T SPEND THE MONEY, IT WILL GO ELSEWHERE.

>> CHARLIE, IS THERE ANYTHING BESIDES POLICE YOU WOULD FAVOR FEDERAL MONEY FOR?

>> IT'S A FUNNY THING YOU MENTION IT BECAUSE TWO KIDS WERE SHOT RIGHT WHERE THAT PHOTO OF THE TRAIL IS ON TUCKER, WHICH IS NEXT ON MY OFFICE, TWO KIDS, 15-YEAR-OLD AND 17-YEAR-OLD WERE SHOT ON THAT CORNER MONDAY NIGHT ACCORDING TO KMOV.

I KNOW YOU FAVOR MORE -- >> ANY OTHER PURPOSE THAN THAT, OF COURSE, WE WANT MORE POLICE.

IS THERE ANY -- WHAT WOULD YOU SUPPORT -- >> I THINK IT SHOULD BE SUPPORTED LOCALLY.

IF YOU WANT A BIKE TRAIL, THAT'S NOT A FEDERAL PRIORITY.

>> YOU JUST ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION.

WE DON'T HAVE MONEY TO PUT POLICE ON TUCKER.

SO HOW IN THE WORLD DO WE FUND BIKE PATHS?

>> WE HAVE THE SUPER BOWL MONEY, AND $550 MILLION FROM THE STATE.

THAT'S THE ONE THING WE HAVE IN THE STATE IS A $700 MILLION SURPLUS.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

I'M SURE THE GOVERNOR WOULD HELP US OUT WITH THIS.

>> THAT'S ALL GOING TO RURAL MISSOURI.

THERE WAS A VERY INTERESTING STORY IN THE BUSINESS JOURNAL ABOUT ALL OF THE MONEY -- MOST OF THE MONEY GOING TO RURAL MISSOURI FROM MIKE PARSON.

>> ARE THEY GETTING BIKE PATHS?

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT.

>> WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

THANK YOU, BILL, ALVIN.

RAY, DON'T GO AWAY.

WENDY, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

RAY AND I ARE TALKING TO GREG STOHR WHO IS AN ATTORNEY AND HE COVERS THE SUPREME COURT FOR BLOOMBERG NEWS.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT VACANCY ANNOUNCED OR CREATED BY THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF STEPHEN BREYER'S RETIREMENT, THAT AND MORE ON NEXT UP.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.