>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> THERE'S A NEW POLICE CHIEF FOR THE COUNTY AND THEY'RE BANNING BOOKS IN WENTZVILLE.

SOME OF THE TOPICS WE'LL BROACH ON THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

LET'S ME THE PANELISTS.

WE WELCOME BACK WENDY WIESE OF THE JENNIFER AND WENDY SHOW ON KTRS.

MR. BILL McCLELLAN FROM THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH.

RAY HARTMANN FROM RAWSTORY.COM, KTRS, AND THE RIVERFRONT TIMES.

AND WE WELCOME MR. ALVIN REID FROM THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN.

RAY, WE'VE GOT A LOT TO TALK ABOUT TONIGHT, BUT I WANT TO REMIND OUR VIEWERS THAT WE HAVE NEXT UP, 30 MINUTES FROM NOW, AND DR. SHARONICA HARDIN-BARTLEY, THE SUPERINTENDENT OF UNIVERSITY CITY SCHOOLS, WILL BE TAKING QUESTIONS FROM ALVIN AND BILL.

WELL, RAY, THERE'S A NEW POLICE CHIEF, KEN GREGORY, AN OVERNIGHT SUCCESS.

HE'S BEEN WITH THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR 42 YEARS.

HE'S 70 YEARS OLD AND HE'S REPLACING MARY BARTON, THE CHIEF WHO RESIGNED LAST SUMMER.

ONE THING THAT KIND OF CONCERNS ME, EVEN THOUGH HE'S GETTING POSITIVE PLAUDITS FROM EVERY CORNER, THAT THE BOARD OF POLICE COMMISSIONERS DON'T HOLD ANY PUBLIC INPUT SESSIONS, THEY DIDN'T ESTABLISH THE CRITERIA, THEY DIDN'T INTERVIEW CANDIDATES.

IN FACT, EVERYTHING WAS DONE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS WITHOUT ANY PUBLIC TRANSPARENCY AT ALL.

ARE YOU A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS?

>> I MEAN, THE BOARD OF POLICE COMMISSIONERS IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY FOR A LONG TIME JUST HASN'T REGARDED ITSELF AS A PUBLIC BODY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY ABOUT THAT.

I THINK HE'S -- I THINK KENNETH GREGORY IS A GOOD CHOICE FROM EVERYTHING I'VE HEARD.

MASSIVE UPGRADE.

IT'S INTERESTING THAT THEY -- REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE PROCESS, THEY NAMED HIM INTERIM CHIEF LAST JULY AND IF THEY WEREN'T GOING TO HAVE A PROCESS, I FEEL LIKE THEY KIND OF SPENT A LONG TIME OVER A THREE-FOOT PUTT, OKAY?

I MEAN, IT WAS A PRETTY EASY CHOICE, IT WAS A PRETTY LOGICAL CHOICE, BUT WHY WAIT -- IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A PROCESS, IT'S ONE THING, BUT TO NAME THE GUY INTERIM AND NOT HAVE A PROCESS AND SIX MONTHS LATER, YEAH, HE'S A KEEP.

THEY MIGHT AS WELL HAVE NAMED HIM CHIEF LAST JULY.

>> THAT MIGHT BE A COUNTY -- THAT COULD BE FROM WHERE MARY BARTON RESIGNED I GUESS WAS TECHNICALLY AFTER HE WAS NAMED THE INTERIM CHIEF AND IT WAS AFTER THE NEW YEAR.

I THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, TOO, BUT I THOUGHT THAT MIGHT JUST BE LIKE ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE IT COSTS US A IF WE NAME HIM FULL-TIME CHIEF NOW.

IT MAY BE AS SIMPLE AS THEIR BENEFITS MIGHT HAVE CHANGED.

I'M SURE HE'S AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL, BUT ALONG THOSE SAME LINES, I'M INTERESTED WHAT HE'S GOING TO GET PAID.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WILL HE MAKE AS MUCH OR MORE THAN THE PREVIOUS?

WILL HE MAKE LESS?

I THINK THOSE ARE THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW.

>> WELL, I THINK IT WAS JUST, YOU KNOW, PEACE IN OUR TIME SORT OF THING.

ORIGINALLY THEY WERE GOING TO SEARCH FOR A TRANSFORMATIONAL LEADER AND THEY'VE HAD SUCH BAD LUCK.

I MEAN, TIM FITCH WAS SO PERSONABLE AND GREAT WITH THE PRESS AND HARD TO REPLACE, AND POOR JON BELMAR CAME IN AND FIRST THING HE HAD WAS FERGUSON.

AND EVERYTHING JUST WENT DOWNHILL FOR HIM AND HE WASN'T GOOD WITH THE PRESS.

AND THEN THEY THOUGHT, WELL, MARY BARTON AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE WERE LAWSUITS AND MARY BARTON -- THAT DIDN'T WORK OUT EITHER.

AND I THINK THAT THEY ORIGINALLY WERE GOING TO LOOK FOR SOMEBODY NEW, BUT THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, THEY THOUGHT, WELL, THIS INTERIM GUY, NOBODY'S COMPLAINING.

IT'S SO NICE, AND IT'S JUST THE EASY WAY TO GO AND OFTEN THE EASY WAY IS THE RIGHT WAY.

>> AGREED, AGREED.

AND WE NEED SOME STABILITY, GOD KNOWS THE COUNTY NEEDS SOME GOOD NEWS, SO -- I MEAN IN LIGHT OF, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THOSE THAT WE KEEP THINKING ABOUT IS THE WILDHABER AWARD, SO LET'S JUST LET EVERYTHING SETTLE.

>> I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT ARE WE FORGETTING, REMEMBER WHEN TROY DOYLE WAS SUING -- I THINK HE'S STILL SUING THE COUNTY, HE POINTED OUT THROUGH SOME DOCUMENTS THAT SAM PAGE SAYS, I CONTROL THE BOARD OF POLICE COMMISSIONERS.

THEY DO WHAT I TELL THEM TO DO.

AND THEN THE OTHER ALLEGATIONS WERE THAT CENTENE CALLS THE SHOTS.

SO IS ALL THAT DRAMA GONE NOW?

>> BUT I LOVE WHAT BILL HERE, I THINK IF YOU WENT THROUGH ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT AND SAID, OKAY, YOUNG OFFICERS, VETERAN OFFICERS, THOSE THAT WORK THE STREETS, THOSE WHO WORK IN THE OFFICE, CONSERVATIVE POLICE OFFICERS, THE BLACK POLICE UNION, THE WHITE POLICE UNION, EVERYBODY IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT, THEY ASKED, YOU KNOW, NOT DOWN TO EVERY INDIVIDUAL, BUT JUST BASICALLY CAME AWAY WITH, HEY, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THIS GENTLEMAN, AND EVERYBODY SAID NO.

AND TO ME, THAT'S THE BEST JOB RESUME THAT YOU CAN HAVE.

TO BE A POLICE CHIEF, NOT IN ALL JOBS, BUT TO BE A POLICE CHIEF.

>> CHARLIE, EXCUSE ME, YOU RAISED AN INTERESTING POINT, WHICH IS -- >> THANK YOU.

>> DOESN'T HAPPEN EVERY DAY.

AND IT'S THAT THE LEGAL -- IT'S NOT JUST TROY DOYLE'S LAWSUIT, WHICH IS PENDING, BUT THERE ARE OTHER DISCRIMINATION CASES IN THE COUNTY.

BUT IN PARTICULAR, WITH REGARD TO DOYLE, WHICH IS REALLY ON POINT BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT THE CHIEF, I WOULD -- NONE OF US ARE LAWYERS, BUT I CAN'T IMAGINE IT'S A GREAT LEGAL STRATEGY IF YOU'RE DEFENDING YOURSELF IN A LAWSUIT, YOU SAY, WELL, WE FOLLOWED EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK, IF THE BOOK DOESN'T EXIST.

YOU KNOW, IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THIS MOVE THE WAY THEY DID IT WAS LIKE NONE OF US ARE BOTHERED BY IT, BUT IT COULD COME BACK TO BITE THEM IN A LAWSUIT LIKE THAT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T REALLY APPEAR THAT THEY HAVE A PROCESS -- >> VERY WELL.

>> -- WHICH EXPOSES THEM, I WOULD THINK, TO THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING A LITTLE BIT ARBITRARY.

>> TO BE CONTINUED, AS THEY SAY.

>> YEAH, WE'LL SEE.

>> WENDY WIESE, WANT TO ASK YOU IF YOU GO TO WENTZVILLE IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS THERE, SCHOOL OFFICIALS VOTED THIS WEEK 4-3 TO BAN A BOOK.

IN THIS CASE, IT'S THE LATE TONI MORRISON'S THE BLUEST EYE.

IT WAS NEVER PART OF THE CURRICULUM, BUT IT WAS AVAILABLE IN THE LIBRARY FOR SOME A.P.

ENGLISH STUDENTS WHO WANTED ACCESS TO IT.

I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE VERY UPSET WITH THIS, AND I DON'T LIKE BANNING BOOKS, BUT IN 2022, WE'RE NOT EXACTLY WALTON'S MOUNT.

IF THERE'S NOT A BOOK IN YOUR SCHOOLING YOU CAN EASILY GET IT FROM AMAZON, IN THIS CASE I LOOKED UP, SEVEN DOLLARS DELIVERED.

IS IT THAT BIG A DEAL?

>> I JUST THINK IT'S SYMBOLIC.

I JUST THINK IT'S SYMBOLIC THAT IN THE FORUM OF IDEAS, WHICH IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO BE ENCOURAGING OUR CHILDREN TO, TO STUDY CONTROVERSIAL BOOKS.

I MEAN, IT SEEMS SILLY BECAUSE SHE WROTE THIS -- THIS IS HER FIRST NOVEL.

SHE WON A PRIZE FOR LITERATURE AND SHE'S COMPARED TO FAULKNER AND MARK TWAIN AND OTHERS.

TO HAVE -- HITLER BURNED BOOKS, BANNED BOOKS.

THIS IS NOT WHO WE ARE AND IT'S INCREDIBLY NAIVE FOR EVERY PARENT TODAY TO THINK THEIR CHILD ISN'T EXPOSED TO SO MUCH WORSE EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

I THINK IT SENDS THE WRONG MESSAGE TO THE KIDS AND IT MAKES ME SAD WHEN I THINK ABOUT IT.

>> I THINK IT'S SYMBOLIC AND A BIG DEAL, AND THE REASON IT'S -- AND IT'S CERTAINLY -- WE SHOULDN'T HAVE OUR FOLKS HERE BEING ACCUSED OF INDEPENDENT THOUGHT.

THIS IS PART OF A NATIONAL TALKING POINT.

IT'S THE NATIONAL -- I WOULDN'T CALL IT A MOVEMENT, BUT IT'S A POLITICAL SET OF TALKING POINTS AND IT'S HAPPENING AROUND THE COUNTRY, FLORIDA OR WHEREVER, WHERE THEY'RE ON THIS BOOK-BANNING RAGE AND IT IS A BIG DEAL BECAUSE IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF WHETHER, AS YOU POINT OUT, PEOPLE CAN GET ACCESS.

THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT WHETHER THESE KIDS GET ACCESS TO THIS FAMOUS AUTHOR.

THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE A POLITICAL STATEMENT JUST LIKE IT IS ON THE MAUS AND OTHER STUFF.

IT'S REALLY AN ABUSE AND I WISH PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE WOULD START ASKING FOR OTHER TYPES OF BOOKS, THE OPPOSITE SIDE.

I JUST THINK IT'S WRONG.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU, RAY AND WENDY, THAT IT'S WRONG, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, MORE KIDS ARE GOING TO READ THE BOOK NOW -- >> THAT'S RIGHT!

>> -- THAN BEFORE.

PUT IT BOOK ON THE LIBRARY SHELF, NOT EVEN REQUIRED READING, KIDS AREN'T GOING IN THE LIBRARY, I DON'T THINK, LOOKING FOR BOOKS, BUT ALL OF A SUDDEN IF THEIR PARENTS DON'T WANT THEM TO READ IT, THEY'LL READ IT AND THE OTHER PARENTS WHO ARE AGAINST BANNING BOOKS WILL SUGGEST THAT THEIR KIDS READ IT.

>> BINGO.

>> AND ALL OF A SUDDEN IT WILL BE THE MOST READ BOOK IN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT.

>> I STAND CORRECTED.

>> I THINK THE SCARY PART IS WHO COMPLAINED ABOUT THE BOOK IN THE FIRST PLACE, OKAY?

AND WHY DID THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT THE BOOK?

I THINK IT'S FAR BEYOND THAT THERE'S CURSE WORDS IN IT.

I THINK IT'S SUBJECT MATTER, I THINK IT'S THE AUTHOR, I THINK IT'S THE RACE THE AUTHOR, AND ALSO IS HUCKLEBERRY FINN ON THAT SHELF IN THERE?

HOW WE TAKE THAT DOWN.

MARK TWAIN HAD SOME PRETTY, YOU KNOW, FOUL THINGS TO SAY ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T WHITE SOMETIMES.

BUT I'M SURE THAT ONE IS STANDING PROUD.

I CAN PROBABLY GO CHECK IT OUT RIGHT NOW.

THEY MIGHT SHOOT ME IF I WALKED INTO THE SCHOOL.

>> GOOD POINT, BUT HE HAS BEEN BANNED AT SCHOOLS.

I THINK BILL IS RIGHT.

THE BEST THING TO DO FOR AN AUTHOR IS BAN THEM.

I WISH THEY HAD BAN ANOTHER ONE IN ST. LOUIS, MY BOOK, SO I COULD SELL A FEW OF THEM.

TO RAY'S POINT, THIS DID HAPPEN TWO YEARS AGO THIS FOR.

THERE WAS A WOMAN FROM ST. LOUIS WHO WROTE ABOUT THE IMMIGRATION EXPERIENCE OF LATINOS CROSSING THE MEXICAN BORDER IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> YES, YES.

>> AND ALL THE LIBERALS BANNED THAT ONE AND SHE WAS ON THE TOP TEN OF THE BESTSELLER LIST THE NEXT 20 WEEKS.

IT WAS THE BEST FAVOR THEY COULD HAVE DONE FOR THE LADY.

>> I STAND CORRECTED WITH REGARD TO BILL, BUT AS FAR AS -- I THINK WHETHER YOU CALL IT CANCEL CULTURE, SENSITIVE, WHATEVER, ON THE LEFT IT'S JUST AS BAD AS ON THE RIGHT -- >> JOE ROGAN.

>> THAT'S NOT THE POINT, BUT IN EITHER CASE, WHETHER IT'S FOLKS ON THE LEFT OR FOLKS ON THE RIGHT, IT'S SENDING -- YOU CAN SAY IT'S FINE FOR THE AUTHOR AND YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

>> FOR HER SAKE.

>> BUT IT ISN'T FINE THE MESSAGE YOU'RE SENDING TO KIDS AND TO YOUR POINT, ALVIN, I'M NOT SURE ANYBODY COMPLAINED.

I'M NOT SURE THIS ISN'T ORGANIC.

IT MAY HAVE BEEN.

SOMEBODY CALLED UP AND SAID THIS IS -- >> NEXT UP, BILL McCLELLAN, DYLAN HERNANDEZ FROM THE LOS ANGELES TIMES, A SPORTS WRITER, TALKING ABOUT WHY LOS ANGELES FANS AROUND WATCHING RAMS GAMES AND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE COLUMN KRK IT WAS KIND OF A -- COLUMN, IT WAS KIND OF A THROWAWAY CHEAP SHOT CALLING US A DUMP OF A TOWN.

A LOT OF PEOPLE IN ST. LOUIS WERE OFFENDED.

WERE YOU?

>> NO, I THOUGHT DYLAN HERNANDEZ WAS WATCHING THIS SHOW, THE WAY WE'RE OFTEN DOWN TO THE CITY AND WHAT IT'S DOING.

YOU KNOW, AS A COLUMNIST, HE'S THRILLED THAT PEOPLE IN ST. LOUIS ARE UPSET AND, YOU KNOW, THE POST'S BEN FREDERICKSON HAS RESPONDED AND I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF DYLAN DOESN'T RESPOND.

IT'S ALL KIND OF FUN AND I'M SURE THAT THIS DYLAN, WHO I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH AND DIDN'T READ HIS COLUMN, YOU KNOW, HAS PROBABLY NEVER BEEN HERE AND REALLY HAS NOTHING AGAINST US.

SO NO, I WASN'T OFFENDED.

>> IT'S WHAT COLUMNISTS ARE PAID TO DO.

IT'S EXACTLY WHAT COLUMNISTS ARE PAID TO DO.

THE LITTLE PART OF ME THAT STILL, YOU KNOW, SEETHED ABOUT STAN KROENKE WHEN I SEE HIM IN THE OWNER'S BOX DURING THE PLAYOFF SEASON.

THEY TRY TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE WE'RE A TOWN OF LUKEWARM FANS.

THAT ISN'T TRUE.

THAT PART OF IT STILL RUBS ME THE WRONG WAY AND ALWAYS WILL REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO GET THE RAMS AND TOM EAGLETON DESCRIBED US AS A REPUBLICAN CAUCUS DES MOINES?

COME ON.

>> IT'S KIND OF FUN.

>> CITIES HAVE ALWAYS GONE BERSERK ON EACH OTHER IN WAY AND IT'S FRIENDLY.

CHICAGO VERSUS NEW YORK, NEW YORK VERSUS BOSTON, EVERYBODY VERSUS PHILADELPHIA.

I JUST DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, THE COLUMNISTS ARE DEVOTING A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT TO THAT.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, BEN HAS AN INFERIORITY COMPLEX, BUT THERE IS ONE WHERE WE'RE LIKE, OKAY, SHE'S GONE, SHE LEFT YOU, SHE GOT MARRIED AGAIN, SHE'S GOING TO HOST THE SUPER BOWL.

>> I THOUGHT HIS COLUMN WAS VERY MEASURED.

I THOUGHT IT WAS PRETTY MEASURED.

>> I LIKE HIS WORK A LOT.

I LIKE BEN A LOT.

>> WHENEVER SOMETHING COMES OUT OF L.A., NO MATTER WHAT IT IS, EVEN ESPECIALLY IF THERE'S SOLE NEGATIVITY TOWARD ST. LOUIS, IT'S LIKE HE FEELS AS THOUGH HE HAS TO RESPOND.

AT SOME POINT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO RESPOND HERE.

>> I THOUGHT THE COLUMN WAS -- TO ME, IF YOU THINK THIS, FOR A SECOND, WITH SERIOUSNESS, TAKE NOT ONE PIECE OF IT SERIOUSLY, THIS IS ABSOLUTELY JUST ABSURD, BUT I THINK WE -- I'M SURE THERE WERE PEOPLE IN 1995 IN LOS ANGELES WHO WERE PRETTY BITTER AT ST. LOUIS BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY CAME IN WITH A QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS AND LURED THEIR TEAM, WHICH THEY ACTUALLY CONSIDERED THEIR TEAM, TO ST. LOUIS.

IN FACT, THEY EVEN ACCUSED US OF STEALING IT, AND HISTORY HAS SHOWN WE DIDN'T STEAL THAT TEAM, WE BORROWED IT.

WE CAME IN WITH A QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS, WE BORROWED THEIR TEAM FOR 20 YEARS, RETURNED IT TO THEM ABOUT LIKE WE FOUND IT, AND WE TRIPLED OUR MONEY.

I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO RESPOND ANY MORE THAN THAT.

>> ONE REAL QUICK THOUGHT.

WE WON THE DIVORCE SETTLEMENT.

THIS IS KIND OF LIKE I'M NOT GOING TO SIT AROUND, NO, GOING OFF -- >> BUT THEY GOT THE KIDS.

>> THAT'S A GOOD ONE, WENDY.

THAT'S A WINNER.

I LIKE THAT.

>> THAT'S A WINNER.

>> AND BY THE WAY, CHARLIE WAS RIGHT TO SAY WE GOT 790 MILLION REASONS NOT TO CARE ABOUT IT.

>> WELL, LET'S GET TO THAT THEN, RAY, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT ROY BLUNT GETTING A BIG AWARD.

THIS WEEK, JOE VICAR RO, A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN, AND TIM FITCH, A MEMBER OF THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY COUNCIL, MOST EXPRESSED CONCERNS AND PUBLISHED REPORTS THAT THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THAT $790 MILLION IS, HOW IT'S BEING SPENT, FOR ONE IS TALKING ABOUT IT.

WE KNOW 30% GOES TO THE LAWYER, WHICH LEAVES OVER $500 MILLION FOR THE SPORTS AUTHORITY AND THE COUNTY AND THE CITY, BUT GIVEN ALL THE PRESSING NEEDS IN ST. LOUIS, AREN'T YOU SURPRISED THAT WE'RE NOT HAVING COMMITTEE HEARINGS AND PUBLIC INPUT SESSIONS AND PEOPLE ARE DISCUSSING HOW SHOULD WE SPEND THIS LARGESSE?

>> SURPRISED?

IT'S 35 YEARS, I'VE GOT THREE PREDICTIONS RIGHT, BUT THIS ONE IS GOING TO BE RIGHT, WHICH IS GRAB YOUR POPCORN FOR THIS.

WE ARE TOTALLY IN UNCHARTED WATERS HERE.

THERE'S NO -- TALK ABOUT HAVING NO PLAYBOOK FOR THIS.

WE HAVE THIS DISJOINTED GOVERNANCE SYSTEM AND I MEAN, I'M SURPRISED ALL 90 MUNICIPALITIES AREN'T JUMPING UP SAYING WE SHOULD BE PART OF THIS.

I MEAN, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT I THINK THE TWO YOU MENTIONED ARE PERFECTLY RIGHT TO RAISE THE QUESTION ABOUT ARE WE GOING TO HAVE TRANSPAREN TRANSPARENCY.

>> ARE WE TALKING TO TALK ABOUT REQUEST IT?

ARE WE GOING TO SPEND IT?

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME.

>> WHY?

>> YOU ASKED ME WHAT I THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO TAKE LONGER THAN IT SHOULD AND THE EASY THING TO DO, BECAUSE THERE'S NO TEMPLATE, TO AGREE ON TRANSPARENCY THE FIRST THING TO DO.

>> YOU KNOW THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> MY PREDICTION IS WE'LL END UP LIKE SHARKS GOING OFF RAW MEAT.

I'M STILL LEANING ON THAT OPTIMISTIC SIDE THAT THEY ARE -- EVERYBODY IS WORKING TOGETHER TO TRY TO COME UP WITH A COMMON SOLUTION.

THAT WAY, CITY, COUNTY, STADIUM AUTHORITY, THEY'LL BE FINE IF THEY COME UP WITH THEIR OWN "THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO WITH IT," AND THEN EVERYBODY, INSTEAD OF ATTACKING ONE OF THEM, YOU HAVE TO ATTACK THEM ALL.

I THINK THEY'RE ACTUALLY PROBABLY COMING UP WITH SOME KIND OF -- >> I DON'T SHARE YOUR OPTIMISM AND POSITIVE ACTIVITY -- POSITIVITY, BUT I CAN'T IMAGINE THIS IS GOING TO GO SMOOTHLY AND IS EVERYBODY IS GOING TO WANT TO MAKE GOOD ARGUMENTS FOR WHY THEY DESERVE MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE.

>> HERE'S WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW THAT'S NOT BEING REPORTED.

THERE ARE MONEYED INTERESTS, DEVELOPERS OR OTHERS, WHO KNOWS WHATEVER INDUSTRY, THEY ARE ALREADY MEETING WITH MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNMENT AND THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS, JUST KIND OF LIKE -- >> SURE.

>> AND I'M NOT SAYING HE JUMPED THE GUN, BUT BOB CLARK EARLIER LAST YEAR SAID WE'RE GOING TO SPEND THAT MONEY ON A NEW EXPANSION FOR THE CONVENTION CENTER, WHATEVER THE CASE IS.

YOU KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE GETTING THE EAR OF POLITICIANS RIGHT NOW AND THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW -- >> THAT'S WHY WE HAVEN'T HEARD ABOUT IT.

>> AND THEY'RE NOT INVOLVING THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY WHY WE VANT HEARD ABOUT IT.

AND BY THE TIME THE COUNTY COUNCIL GETS AHOLD OF IT, WE KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE THE LAST COUPLE YEARS.

>> BUT ST. LOUIS YOU GOT YOURS, ST. LOUIS COUNTY, YOU GOT YOURS, WOULD YOU TWO GIVE AN EXTRA 10, 5, MILLION TOWARD SECURITY OF DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS, BE IT PRIVATE SECURITY, BE IT ADDITIONAL POLICE FORCES, BE IT WHATEVER WE NEED TO DO.

>> ROBO-COPS.

>> WOULD YOU CAN WILLING TO DO THAT?

AND I THINK THEY WOULD BE WILLING.

SO THAT MEANS THE CITY IS UP 10, 15 MILLION THAN THE OTHERS.

BASICALLY YOU SPLIT THE MONEY THREE WAYS, BUT YOU FIGURE OUT WAYS WHERE IT CAN BE HELPED WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE HELPED.

THESE ARE JUST PIPE DREAMS.

>> YOU ARE DEFINITELY PIPE DREAMS TO GET EVERYBODY TO AGREE ON WHAT'S IMPORTANT -- >> WE ALL AGREE THERE'S TOO MUCH CRIME IN DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS.

>> WE AGREE.

I'M NOT SURE ALL THE OTHER -- >> THERE ARE LOBBYISTS AND LAWYERS WORKING THE HALLWAYS OF GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK.

>> YUP.

>> IT'S A LITTLE BIT DATED WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

FROM THE SECOND, FROM THE -- FIRST OF ALL, THE HUMAN RESOURCE -- THE LAWYERS, I'M SURE THEY'LL DO SOME NICE THINGS.

ONE OF THE THINGS THEY COULD HAVE DONE WHICH COULD BE NICE IS NOT TO HAVE IT HOT WIRED SO THEY GOT 35% OF A DEAL THEY WOULD HAVE NEVER GOTTEN WITH A BIG CORPORATE CLIENT.

>> BUT THEY GOT IT.

>> THEY WERE HEROES, THEY'RE NICE GUYS.

>> LET'S HOPE THEY HAVE A NICE CHRISTMAS PARTY.

>> IT MIGHT BE REALLY NICE.

THEY COULD HAVE A REALLY NICE CHRISTMAS.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THE OTHERS IN THE FIRM -- BUT MY POINT IS THIS.

THAT WE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT THE LOBBYISTS, THE COLONY OF CONSULTANTS THAT -- >> YES.

>> -- ALL THESE PEOPLE, IT'S A LITTLE DATED TO SAY THEY'RE DOING IT NOW.

THEY'VE BEEN ON THIS SINCE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, 15 MINUTES AFTER THIS WAS ANNOUNCED.

THIS IS NOTHING THAT THEY'RE JUST PICKING UP NOW.

AND IN DEFENSE OF OUR PUBLIC OFFICIALS, THEY HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE AFTER THEM.

>> GOT TO MOVE ON.

SPEAKING OF MONEY, AND WE'RE GOING TO GET TO ALVIN'S -- ALVIN GOT A SHOUTOUT BY JANET WHITE JACKSON IN TODAY'S POST-DISPATCH, DYLAN HERNANDEZ LEARNED FROM HER, BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU, SPEAKING OF MONEY, AT&T HAS DECIDED TO SUE THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS OVER THE PAYROLL TAX.

IT'S .5% ON ALL THE EMPLOYEES YOU HAVE IN YOUR WORKPLACE AND THE RULES OF THE CITY SAID IF YOU WORK IN THE CITY OR WORK IN THE CITY, YOU PAY THAT, BUT IF YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T PAY IT.

WELL, AT&T WAS CHARGED BY THE CITY FOR THE EARNINGS TAX EVEN THOUGH ITS EMPLOYEES WERE OUT IN THE COUNTY OR IN ILLINOIS.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BEGRUDGE THEM THE MONIES THEY DESERVE, ARE YOU?

>> YES, I AM.

I'M DISAPPOINTED IN AT&T AND I'M AN AT&T CUSTOMER.

I MEAN, I'M -- MAYBE I'LL SWITCH TO SPRINT OR SOMEBODY ELSE.

YOU KNOW, THE CITY -- WE -- THE CITY NEEDS THE MONEY.

I DON'T THINK AT&T SHAREHOLDERS DO, AND I KNOW THE CITY IS GETTING, YOU KNOW, A TON OF MONEY FROM THE RAMS AND A TON OF MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT ON THIS, BUT THE CITY IS ALREADY DRIVING TO THE CASINO IN A NEW CAR.

THE CITY IS GOING TO SPEND THIS MONEY FOOLISHLY, AND WE KNOW IT.

AND IT JUST BOTHERS ME THAT AT&T IS GOING TO NICKEL AND DIME THE CITY.

I THINK IT'S WRONG.

>> YOU'RE DISAPPOINTED IN AT&T?

>> I AM.

>> WHY, BECAUSE YOU FOUND OUT THEY WEREN'T THE WARM AND FUZZY TELETUBBY WE THOUGHT THEY WERE?

>> THEY DON'T NEED TO DO THIS, RAY.

>> OF COURSE THEY DON'T, BUT IT'S AT&T.

>> KANSAS CITY IS ALREADY ISSUING THAT REFUND.

>> MAYBE MR. REID HERE CAN GET AT&T TO DONATE THE MONEY THEY'RE ABSCONDING WITH FROM THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS FOR WHATEVER GROO 000 NOT -- >> AT&T, WHATEVER.

>> I'M NOT JOE CONGLOMERATE, BUT JUST GIVE AT&T THEIR MONEY.

>> YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING.

>> I DON'T THINK THEY'RE OUT OF LINE ASKING FOR THIS MONEY.

NOW, TO SETTLE IT, ONCE AGAIN, MAYBE OPTIMISTIC, YOU TELL AT&T WE'LL PAY YOU, BUT WE'RE GOING TO PAY YOU -- >> IN PENNIES.

>> $5,000 AND -- >> ROLLS OF QUARTERS.

>> ALVIN REID, JANET WHITE JACKSON CITED YOUR COLUMN IN TODAY'S COLUMN, SHE CITED YOUR WORK BECAUSE YOU TOOK A LOOK AT THE CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING SENATOR ROY BLUNT GETTING THE GIVENS AWARD THIS YEAR FROM THE MLK COMMISSION FOR THE STATE OF MISSOURI.

THERE WERE PROTESTED THERE.

YOU POINTED OUT INTERESTING FACTS ABOUT THAT.

>> THE COMMISSION WAS RESPONDING TO THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN, NOT JUST ME.

I GOT IN TOUCH WITH THEM WHEN I LEARNED THAT ROY BLUNT WAS GOING TO GET THIS AWARD.

THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT AREN'T HAPPY WITH THIS DECISION.

THEY SENT ME A STATEMENT AND PART OF IT WAS THAT DR. GIVENS REQUESTED ROY BLUNT RECEIVED THIS AWARD.

AS WE KNOW, DR. GIVENS PASSED AWAY AND HIS WIFE PASSED AWAY ABOUT A MONTH LATER.

I'M SORRY, BUT IN LIGHT OF HIS RECORD ON THE VOTING RIGHTS AND THE JOHN LEWIS ACT, THAT I JUST WOULDN'T HAVE GIVEN IT TO HIM.

IF I WERE ON THE COMMISSION, I KNOW IT'S BIPARTISAN, YOU HAVE PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE STATE.

IF I WAS A PERSON, I WAS SO WITH HIM NOT GETTING THIS AWARD AND IT'S NOT A PERSONAL THING, THAT I JUST WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN AT THE EVENT.

I COULD NOT HAVE SAT THERE THROUGH THAT ON MARTIN LUTHER KING WEEKEND AND WATCHED HIM GET THAT RECOGNITION.

I JUST COULDN'T DO IT.

>> RESPECTFULLY TO YOU AND JANET WISE JACKSON OF THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH, WE ALL KNOW WHAT DR. GIVENS MEANT TO THIS COMMUNITY.

HE SEEMED TO BE RECOGNIZING SENATOR BLUNT'S EFFORTS FOR THE EDUCATION SYSTEM IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI.

I THINK THAT THIS WAS ONE OF THOSE INSTANCES WHERE WE CAN'T LET THE PERFECT BE THE ENEMY OF THE GOOD AND I THINK THAT HE EARNED THE RIGHT TO SAY WHO SHOULD HAVE AN AWARD THAT IS GIVEN IN HIS NAME.

I THINK HE PROBABLY HAD SOME HISTORY WITH SENATOR BLUNT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> AND I THINK CLEARLY YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION.

>> AND I AM CROSSING THAT LINE.

I KNOW, IT'S LIKE I'M NOT SAYING -- >> I GET IT.

>> -- I DON'T BELIEVE DR. GIVENS ACTUALLY SAID THIS, BUT WITH HIM NOT BEING WITH US ANYMORE, I WOULD HAVE TAKEN A HARD LINE STANCE ON THIS.

>> WELL, APPARENTLY SENATOR BLUNT ANNOUNCED WHEN HE WAS FIRST RUNNING FOR U.S. SENATE, I READ THE OBITUARY LAST SUMMER OF DR. GIVENS AND APPARENTLY THEY WERE CLOSED.

>> AND HE ANNOUNCED ON FOX NEWS THAT THE VOTING RIGHTS BILL WAS ONE THE WORST THINGS THAT WOULD HAPPEN TO AMERICA EVER.

NAH.

>> WELL, THAT CONCLUDES THIS PORTION THE BROADCAST.

JUST AROUND THE CORNER, WE ARE GOING TO CHECK IN WITH SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS FOR UNIVERSITY CITY, BUT FIRST LET'S FIND OUT WHAT PEOPLE HAD TO SAY ABOUT LAST WEEK'S PROGRAM.

THANK YOU, SARAH FENSKE FOR YOUR COMMENTS SUPPORTING HISTORIC PRESERVATION, ESPECIALLY IN SUCH A GREAT NEIGHBORHOOD LIKE LAFAYETTE SQUARE.

IT WAS ENCOURAGING TO HEAR RAY AND CHARLIE'S ENDORSEMENT OF YOUR VIEWS.

THAT FROM BILL MORRISON OF LAFAYETTE SQUARE.

E.F. WROTE, SO WORTH NOTING THAT MISSOURI IS EXPANDING MEDICARE.

RAY, THOUGH, IS RIGHT THAT GOVERNOR PARSON HAS NO SINGLE ACTION HE'S TAKING REGARDING COVID, WHICH IS A COMPLETE FAILURE OF LEADERSHIP.

WE HEARD, THE EAST TERMINAL IS GREAT.

OVERALL, THE AIRPORT IS FUNCTIONAL.

AIRPORT RECONFIGURATION SHOULD BE WAY DOWN ON THE PRIORITY LIST FOR FUNDING FOR THE REGION.

THANKS FOR THAT TWEET.

YOU SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS BY WRITING DONNYBROOK CARE OF NINE PBS, 3655 OLIVE STREET, ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 63108.

DON'T FORGET THOSE EMAILS, WE LOVE THEM, DONNYBROOK@NINEPBS.ORG, AS WELL AS THOSE TWEETS AT #DONNYBROOK ST. LOUIS -- #DONNYBROOKSTL, AND FOR MANY US ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCAST SOURCE.

THAT'S IT FOR THIS PROGRAM.

THANK YOU FOR TUNING IN, BUT DON'T TOUCH THAT DIAL BECAUSE SHARONICA HARDIN-BARTLEY, SUPERINTENDENT OF UNIVERSITY SCHOOLS, WILL BE TALKING TO ALVIN AND BILL AND TAKING THEIR QUESTIONS.

THAT'S NEXT ON NEXT UP.

HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.