>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

OUR FIRST FOR 2022, AND ALSO THE FIRST FOR OUR 36th SEASON.

CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?

DONNYBROOK HAS NOW COMPLETED 35 YEARS ON NINE PBS.

THANK TO EVERYBODY AT NINE PBS AND, OF COURSE, OUR FOUNDERS AS WELL.

BILL AND RAY.

LET'S FIND OUT WHO'S ON THE FIRST PANEL FOR THIS NEW YEAR.

WELL, SHE'S HALF OF JENNIFER AND WENDY ON KTRS, WENDY WIESE.

ALONG WITH MR. BILL McCLELLAN, DRESSED FOR THE SEASON FROM STLTODAY.COM.

ANOTHER ONE OF OUR FOUNDERS FROM RAWSTORY.COM, THE RIVERFRONT TIMES AND KTRS, MR. RAY HARTMANN.

WE ALSO WELCOME THE NEWS EDITOR FOR THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN AND ONE OF THEIR TOP SPORTS COLUMNISTS, IN ALVIN REID.

AND YES, FOLKS, WE ARE ZOOMING THIS WEEK.

WE DON'T KNOW IF WE'LL BE ZOOMING NEXT WEEK.

STAY TUNED TO FIND OUT.

OKAY, LET'S START WITH YOU, RAY HARTMANN.

THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY COUNCIL DID PASS A MASK MANDATE.

I KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE TO CALL IT A MAN DATE, YOU CALL IT A PERSONDATE, BUT IT'S A DIRECTOR OR ORDER TELLING FOLKS FOR WEAR MASKS INSIDE PUBLIC BUILDINGS OR ON MASS TRANSIT AND IMMEDIATELY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE STATE OF MISSOURI ERIC SCHMITT SAID HE WOULD SUE AND I THINK HE'S ALREADY FILED A LAWSUIT TO TRY AND STOP THIS MASK MANDATE.

I WILL SAY, I HEARD ANALYSIS ABOUT KMOX BY BRAD YOUNG, ONE OF OR ATTORNEYS, HE SAID IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THE ORDER IS QUITE VALID BECAUSE ANY RESTRICTIONS ON THE COUNTY, ACCORDING TO HOUSE BILL 271, THE ENABLING LEGISLATION, SAID THE RESTRICTIONS ON THE COUNTY AND ITS ABILITY TO PROMULGATE THESE ORDERS CAN ONLY OCCUR WHEN THERE'S A STATE OF EMERGENCY.

AND THAT STATE OF EMERGENCY ACTUALLY EXPIRED ON FRIDAY.

SO DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT ANALYSIS, THAT THIS ORDER IS VALID AND GOING TO CONTINUE?

>> I HAVE LONG AGO STOPPED TRYING TO FIGURE FIGURE OUT JUDICIAL OUTCOMES IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI.

I DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA.

I KNOW THAT THE SPIRIT, THE IDEA OF DOING THIS IS THE RIGHT ONE.

I HAS TO THINK IT IS SIGNIFICANT THAT IT BE CALLED SOMETHING OTHER THAN A MANDATE WHEN, IN FACT, IT'S NOT A MANDATE.

YOU CARRY A LOT OF BAGGAGE WITH PEOPLE UNNEM BY CALLING IT -- UNNECESSARILY BY CALLING IT THAT.

IT IS A DIRECTIVE AND IT'S PROPER.

THE KEY THING TO ME IS FOR THE PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS TO BE OUT THERE TRYING TO GIVE PEOPLE THE BEST GUIDANCE AND FOR BUSINESSES THAT WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY, WE'RE FOLLOWING THE COUNTY DIRECTIVE, WE'RE FOLLOWING THE CDC GUIDANCE, THAT'S -- THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT WITH THEIR CUSTOMERS.

THAT'S IT.

AND IT SHOULD BE -- THIS SHOULD NOT EVEN BE DEBATED, AND ERIC SCHMITT HAS JUST LOST ALL SELF-RESPECT AND REALLY HAS SHOWN HIMSELF AS JUST UNFIT TO SERVE ACROSS PARTY LINES.

HE'S CALLING THE DEMOCRATIC -- HE'S CALLING THE COUNTY COUNCIL FOLKS TYRANTS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC HEALTH.

>> OKAY, I WONDER WHAT CHANGED SINCE THE SUMMER.

OKAY.

THIS SUMMER, RITA DAY AND WEBB WERE BEING CARRIED ON THE SHOULDERS OF THE ANTI-MASK FORCE.

NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

AND NOW THEY'RE VOTING FOR THE MASK MANDATE AND THEY'RE TYRANTS.

NOW, THEY WERE FRIENDS OF ERIC SCHMITT THIS SUMMER, NOW THEY'RE TYRANTS.

YOU KNOW, PICK A SIDE, ANY SIDE, AND THAT'S WITH MOST POLITICAL ISSUES, BUT THIS ONE, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THAT ENTIRE, JUST -- I DON'T KNOW, RIDICULOUSNESS THIS SUMMER SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

IT CAME DOWN TO TWO, YOU KNOW, COUNCIL PEOPLE'S VOTES AND NOW THEY VOTED THIS WAY AND, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE 10,000 PEOPLE SHOW UP AT THE NEXT COUNTY COUNCIL MEETING.

I DOUBT IT.

SO I WONDER WHAT HAPPENED OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT THE ELECTION CYCLE IS GETTING CLOSER AND RITA DAYS HAS TO RUN FOR RE-ELECTION.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT, ALVIN.

AND THIS HAS BECOME -- AND TO ME, TO HAVE THE LEADER OF ST. LOUIS COUNTY AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF MISSOURI, THIS IS A BATTLE OF POLITICAL WILLS, AND IT IS -- IT'S ONLY SERVING TO CONFUSE AND I THINK JEOPARDIZE THE HEALTH OF THE RESIDENTS WHO ARE KIND OF CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE.

SAM PAGE, I WANT TO LIVE WHEREVER HE LIVES.

WHERE HE'S TALKING ABOUT, IT'S GOING TO BE EASIER, GOING TO BE LESS CONFUSION, THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE COMPLIANCE.

ON WHAT PLANET?

THIS IS ABOUT -- THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WOULD TAKE THEIR CITIZENSHIP ON NOT COMPLYING WITH ANY DIRECTIVE, AND WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THEM IF THEY ARE FOUND TO BE NONCOMPLIANT?

WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GO?

ARE THEY GOING TO BE PICKED UP AND THROWN IN A RECEPTACLE?

IT'S JUST NONSENSICAL.

I WISH THERE WAS SOME WAY TO FORCE THE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T VACCINATED TO WEAR A MASK BECAUSE, FRANKLY, THAT MAKES SENSE.

I'M HAPPY TO WEAR A MASK, BUT THIS WHOLE THING IS SO INCREDIBLY CONFUSING THAT -- AND IT'S A POLITICAL -- I JUST THINK IT'S A POLITICAL TRAVESTY AT THIS POINT ON THE PART OF THE LEADERSHIP.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU, WENDY, THAT IT'S A TRAVESTY, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT CONFUSING.

I MEAN, I THINK ERIC SCHMITT SHOULD BE EMBARRASSED THAT WHAT HE'S DOING IS JUST PANDERING TO THE LOWEST DENOMINATOR AND SAYING THAT THERE SHOULD BE -- REALLY, WHAT HE'S SAYING IS THERE SHOULD BE NO HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND, YOU KNOW, FIRST IT WAS, WELL, YOU CAN'T -- THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE CAN'T DO THIS, IT NEEDS TO BE THE PEOPLE AND THE LEGISLATURE.

SO THE COUNTY COUNCIL SAYS, OKAY, WE'LL DO IT, AND THAT DOESN'T SATISFY ERIC SCHMITT.

IT'S REALLY JUST -- IT'S GONE BEYOND PARODY AND JUST RIDICULOUS AND I KIND OF FEEL -- I DO FEEL SORRY FOR ERIC SCHMITT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW HE CONTINUES.

>> WELL, I DON'T -- >> LET'S STICK WITH BILL ON THAT TOPIC THEN.

NOT ON THAT TOPIC, BUT SWITCHING GEARS HERE TO A STORY THAT WAS REPORTED BY ST. LOUIS PUBLIC RADIO AND THAT IS THAT FOR SOME REASON, EVEN THOUGH THE CITY GOT 500 MILLION FEDERAL DOLLARS, IT STILL HASN'T ESTABLISHED A SAFE HAVEN FOR THE HOMELESS FOR THIS COLD WINTER.

AND HERE WE ARE AT THE COLDEST WEEK OF THE YEAR AND THERE'S NOT A PLACE FOR THE HOMELESS ON THE DOWNTOWN STREETS TO GO WHEN IT'S 3 DEGREES.

AND I THINK IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THAT TODAY OR TOMORROW, ONE OR THE OTHER.

BILL, DO YOU THINK THAT THE CITY'S DROPPING THE BALL HERE?

IS THERE SOMEONE ELSE THAT WE CAN BLAME WHEN HERE WE ARE, EARLY JANUARY, AND THERE'S NO SAFE HAVEN.

>> WELL, NOW I FEEL SORRY FOR MAYOR TISHAURA JONES.

WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT IT MIGHT GET COLD IN JANUARY?

I MEAN, THIS IS ALSO JUST RIDICULOUS.

WE KNOW IT CAN GET VERY, VERY COLD IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY, AND WE HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF MONEY AND WHAT'S THE POINT OF HAVING A PROGRESSIVE, LIBERAL ADMINISTRATION IF THEY HAPPEN TO FORGET THAT IT MIGHT GET COLD AND NOW YOU GOT A LOT OF HOMELESS PEOPLE WHO I THOUGHT THE MAYOR HAD SOME SYMPATHY FOR, AND NOW THEY'RE OUT THERE IN THE COLD AND WE'RE SORT OF SHOCKED THAT IT'S COLD IN JANUARY.

THIS IS RIDICULOUS TOO.

>> I DON'T THINK -- I DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE WE CAN, FROM AFAR, KNOW WHO TO BLAME.

IN OTHER WORDS, I CERTAINLY DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY LACK OF COMPASSION OR CONCERN FOR THE HOMELESS BY ANYBODY -- >> THEY'LL BE HAPPY TO HEAR THAT, RAY, WHEN THEY'RE OUT THERE IN SUBZERO WEATHER.

>> I'M NOT -- OKAY, I'M JUST SAYING, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK HAS BEEN VERY FRUSTRATING IN THE PAST YEAR OR MORE HAS BEEN THIS CONSTANT EXPERIENCE WE'RE HAVING WHERE, WHETHER IT'S THE STATE GOVERNMENT, CITY, COUNTY, MONIES THAT TRVE HAVE BEEN APPROPRIATED THROUGH RELIEF ACTS THAT THE POLITICIANS ALL BRAGGED ABOUT AT THE BEGINNING, DON'T END UP GETTING SPEND OR THEY SIT FOR MONTHS ON END, AND I'M A LITTLE HESITANT TO JUMP ON THE CITY JUST BECAUSE I WONDER HOW MUCH OF IT MIGHT BE THE FEDERAL BUREAUCRACY.

BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO BE A CONSTANT THEME ACROSS GOVERNMENT THAT THESE MONIES JUST SIT, AND I DON'T -- I ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE AN OPINION BECAUSE, I MEAN -- >> I DO.

WHEN HE WAS THE DIRECTOR OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES IN 2002, BILL SEEDOFF GOT TOGETHER GOOD A COUPLE OF NONPROFITSES AN ALMOST OVERNIGHT PUT UP A SAFE HAVEN, I THINK AT THE 12th STREET PARK AND RECREATION CENTER, AND IN THIS CASE, IT LOOKS LIKE THE MAYOR IS ENCOURAGING OTHERS TO TAKE THE INITIATIVE.

LIKE THIS ST. LOUIS UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR TIM HUFFMAN WHO STARTED A SAFE HAVEN IN A BANQUET HALL ON THE CAMPUS OF ST. LOUIS UNIVERSITY.

>> DON'T THINK THAT -- >> FOR EXAMPLE, THE MILLENNIUM HOTEL IS EMPTY.

IN SALT LAKE CITY, THEY TOOK A RAM PLAID DA AND PUT THE HOMELESS IN THERE.

ON BOSTON THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND FINFIND A PLACE ON WHAT'S CALLED LONG ISLAND.

EVERYONE IS GRAPPLING WITH THIS.

>> CHARLIE, DO YOU THINK THE REACTION IF THE ADMINISTRATION IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS DID THOSE THINGS WOULD BE THE SAME AS THE REACTION ON LONG ISLAND AND SALT LAKE CITY?

IT WOULD BE TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

TWO, I THINK THE MAYOR COULD WRITE A CHECK WITH THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS ON IT AND SAY, HERE, DO THAT SHELTER, I GUARANTEE YOU SHE WOULD HAVE DONE IT.

QUON WHERE THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN COMES IN ON THIS AND I ALSO THIS IS NOT AN EXCUSE, BUT THEY HAVE AND DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF IT, BUT THEY GOT PREOCCUPIED WITH THAT REDISTRICTING THING AND I'M NOT USING THAT AS AN EXCUSE, BUT -- >> AGAIN, I THINK YOU HAVE TO ASK WHERE THERE'S OTHER PARTIES IN THIS, WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT DELAYS OR INEFFICIENCY, I THINK IT'S DANGEROUS TO JUST ASSUME THAT THE PARTY ON THE RECEIVING END, IN THIS CASE, THE CITY, IS THE ONE AT FAULT.

I DON'T KNOW.

>> HEY, GUYS, I JUST WANT TO SAY, I THINK A LOT OF VIEWERS WOULD AGREE, IF THIS WAS MIKE PARSON GETTING $500 MILLION AND NOT COMING UP WITH A SAFE HAVEN, YOU WOULD BE HOLDING HIS FEET TO THE FIRE.

>> WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

I JUST SAID, AT THE STATE LEVEL THAT'S HAPPENED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

>> AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MONEY HE ORIGINALLY GOT FOR, YOU KNOW, PERSONAL PROTECTION AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF?

>> THAT WAS -- >> THAT DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE FOR MONTHS.

>> WE VEERED OFF COURSE.

IT SEEMS TO ME FROM THE STORY THAT IT WAS -- THESE WERE ADMINISTRATIVE GIANT HOLES THAT THESE CONTRACTS FELL THROUGH, THAT, YOU KNOW, THE SIGNATURES FELL THROUGH.

IT COULD JUST BE, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE JOB ARE NOT EXACTLY SURE OF HOW TO DO THE JOB.

IT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT SIMPLE.

IN A PANDEMIC.

>> LET'S STICK WITH YOU, WENDY, ON OUR NEXT TOPIC.

WE GO TO KSDK, NEWS CHANNEL 5 WHERE AN ANCHOR THERE, MICHELLE LI, ON NEW YEAR'S EVE TOLD HER VIEWERS THAT SHE'S PROUD TO CELEBRATE NEW YEAR'S IN HER KOREAN TRADITION WITH DUMPLINGS, AND THEN SHE GOT A CALL TO THE STATION FROM SOME ANONYMOUS VIEWER WHO SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE VERY ASIAN, KEEP YOUR KOREAN TO YOURSELF.

THE STORY ACTUALLY MADE THE WASHINGTON POST.

MISS LI RELEASED THE VOICE MAIL AND NOW ACTUALLY SHE'S SELLING T-SHIRTS THAT SAY VERY ASIAN ON IT TO RAISE POINT FOR AN ASIAN JOURNALISTS ASSOCIATION, SO GOOD FOR HER, SHE'S CAPITALIZING ON THIS, BUT OVERALL, DO YOU THINK THIS INSULT ROSE TO THE LETTER -- OR RATHER ROSE TO THE LEVEL OF A NATIONAL NEWS STORY?

>> I THINK IT IS IRONIC THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS ON JANUARY 6th AND DURING THE INSURRECTION OF LAST YEAR, THE JOURNALIST WHOSE EQUIPMENT WAS DESTROYED, WHOSE LIVES WERE PHYSICALLY THREATEN, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE PHYSICALLY THREATENED WITH VIOLENCE.

LAST YEAR, YOU HAD 21 JOURNALISTS WHO WERE KILLED AROUND THE WORLD IN THE COMMISSION OF JUST THEIR DUTIES AS JOURNALISTS.

I'M NOT SURE IF MICHELLE WAS JUMPING INTO A MOMENT IN TIME THAT SEEMS TO BE VERY RIFE WITH THIS TYPE OF THING, BUT I THINK ONE DAY SHE'S GOING TO LOOK BACK AND WISH THAT IT HADN'T GOTTEN ALL THIS ATTENTION.

I WISH THAT NO ONE'S FEELINGS EVER HAD TO BE HURT, BUT THIS IS THE MEDIA AND FOR EVERY GREAT EMAIL YOU GET, THERE'S GOING TO BE A BAD EMAIL.

AND YOU HAVE TO NOT TAKE ANY STOCK IN THE NOISE.

YOU HAVE TO -- YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO DO YOUR JOB.

I JUST DON'T KNOW WHOSE DECISION IT WAS TO PROPEL THIS TO A NATIONAL STORY.

IT CERTAINLY FITS OUR FRAME AT THIS MOMENT, BUT I DO THINK ONE DAY SHE'S GOING TO LOOK BACK ON THIS AND MAYBE WISH IT HADN'T BEEN SUCH A BIG DEAL AND I THINK WHAT SHE'S DOING WITH THE MONEY IS GREAT.

>> WENDY, I DON'T BLAME MICHELLE LI AT ALL.

I BLAME OURSELVES AND THE MEDIA AND THE POST-DISPATCH AND EVERYONE WHO TOOK THIS AND ACTED LIKE IT WAS A STORY.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY, ALL OF US WHO HAVE -- ARE IN THE MEDIA AND HAVE OPINIONS, WE GET ALL SORTS OF NEGATIVE STUFF AND PEOPLE TRY TO BE AS HURTFUL AS THEY CAN, MUCH MORE HURTFUL THAN SOMEBODY SAYING KEEP YOUR ASIAN CHRISTMAS TO YOURSELF.

AND WHY ANYBODY IN THE MEDIA WOULD HAVE SEIZED ON THIS AS, THIS IS A STORY, A LISTENER OR VIEWER OR READER COMPLAINED IN A RUDE WAY.

IT'S CRAZY.

SO I BLAME THE MEDIA AND I DON'T BLAME MICHELLE AT ALL.

I DON'T KNOW HER, BUT I DON'T BLAME HER AT ALL FOR THIS.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IF -- WHO WOULD LISTEN WHEN YOU SAY, I DID SOMETHING -- THE INSULT I GOT OR THE EMAIL OR VOICE MAIL WAS THAT YOU'RE VERY BLACK, KEEP THAT, YOU KNOW, SOUL FOOD TO YOURSELF.

I MEAN, I KNOW WHERE THAT PERSON IS COMING FROM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, LIKE BILL SAID, LIKE MAN, THAT'S NOT THE WORST THING I'M PROBABLY GOING TO HEAR TODAY OR IN 48 HOURS.

>> IT'S NOT UNUSUAL IN THIS BUSINESS.

>> AND I THINK TO ALVIN'S POINT, THE STUFF THAT IS -- I THINK WHAT ENDS UP BEING THE REASON THE MEDIA COVERS IT, AND I'M RIGHT WITH BILL ON THIS, IS YOU'VE GOT THE -- YOU KNOW HOW TV NEEDS VISUALS.

YOU'VE GOT THE DRAMA THAT'S INHERENT IN A VIDEO OR AN AUDIO OR VIDEO, A RECORDING YOU CAN PLAY, AND I THINK ABOUT HOW THIS -- HOW BENIGN THIS IS WITH NO DISRESPECT TO HER AND THE FACT THAT IT IS -- WASN'T VERY -- WAS INSULTING, COMPARED TO THE UNBELIEVABLY VILE THREATS THAT ARE ACTUALLY DRIVING PEOPLE FROM OFFICE, BOTH PARTIES, ACROSS SECRETARIES OF STATE AND CONGRESSMEN, ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE LEAVING, AND WE CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO RECOUNT THE LANGUAGE AND THE DEATH THREATS.

I MEAN, SO IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, GOOD FOR HER, SHE DRAW ATTENTION TO A LEGITIMATE -- AND I THINK THERE'S A REAL PROBLEM THAT'S BEEN UNDERSTATED IN THE COUNTRY ABOUT BIGOTRY TOWARD ASIAN-AMERICANS DURING THE PANDEMIC.

WE ALL KNOW THAT STORY, I'M NOT MINIMIZING IT, BUT BOY, I TELL YOU, I'M WITH YOU.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW IT GOT TO BE THIS BIG A STORY.

>> ALVIN, I WANT TO ASK YOU A COUPLE QUESTIONS ABOUT ST. LOUIS CRIME AND YOU CAN TAKE IT FROM THERE.

ONE IS, ON NEW YEAR'S EVE, WE HAD MORE THAN 700 CALLS ABOUT SHOTS FIRED IN THE CITY.

YOU KNOW, THERE WAS LIKE 740, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BECAUSE IN ST. LOUIS, IT'S OUR TRADITION TO TAKE A FIREARM AND SHOOT IT INTO THE SKY.

WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, THOSE BULLETS COME DOWN AND ONE GIRL WHO'S 14 AND ANOTHER WHO IS 15 GOT HIT BY THOSE STRAY BULLETS AS DID TWO GUYS, 39 AND 41 YEARS OLD.

AT THE SAME TIME, LAST WEEK, TIME MAGAZINE HAD A STORY THAT ST. LOUIS CITY IS BUCKING THE NATIONAL TREND BECAUSE OUR HOMICIDES WENT WAY DOWN.

AND THEY DID.

THEY WENT FROM 262 TO 194, WHICH IS GREAT, BUT 194 IS STILL ONE OF THE WORST YEARS IN THE LAST QUARTER CENTURY AND AT 194, WE HAD MORE HOMICIDES THAN MINNEAPOLIS, ATLANTA, CLEVELAND, AND SOME OTHER CITIES WHICH HAVE HIGHER POPULATIONS.

SO DO YOU THINK IT'S TOO EARLY TO START CELEBRATING THE DROP IN HOMICIDES?

AND WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF PEOPLE SHOOTING FIREARMS INTO THE SKY?

>> OKAY, ONE THING NOBODY IN THE CITY ADMINISTRATION CELEBRATED THAT FACT.

IT'S BEEN REPORTED.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE CONSIDERED IS IF I WERE THE MAYOR, I WOULD BE MAKING A BIGGER DEAL OF THAT BECAUSE IF IT HAD GONE UP 25%, JUST IMAGINE THE REACTION TO THAT.

THEN, TOO, I'M GOING TO USE EXAMPLE AND IT'S KIND OF A BAD ONE AND I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE LIGHT OF THE SITUATION OR BE FUNNY, BUT A CERTAINLY COLLEGE FOOTBALL TEAM THAT I FOLLOW WON ZERO GAMES IN 2020.

IT WON TWO GAMES IN 2021.

VERY FAR FROM BEING A SUCCESSFUL TEAM, BUT YOU GOT TO TAKE THAT AND BUILD ON IT.

AND SO I THINK THAT IT IS BIG NEWS THAT THE CITY ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT CAME TO HOMICIDES THAT OTHER METROPOLITAN AREAS DID NOT DO.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED.

IT COULD BE ALL DUST IN THE WIND A YEAR FROM NOW, BUT SUPPOSE IT GOES DOWN?

YOU KNOW, ANOTHER 10, 15 MURDERS.

MAYBE WE FOUND SOMETHING THAT'S WORKING.

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING IN THE STORY THAT DAN ISOM WAS CREDITING A DIFFERENT KIND OF POLICING, AND YET YOU HAD JAMES CLARK WHO SPEAKS AS AN OFFICIAL OF THE URBAN LEAGUE BASICALLY SAYING THAT, NO, IT HAD NOTHING TO DO REQUEST POLICING.

IT'S BECAUSE OF THESE BLOCK CAPTAINS WHO ARE REALLY PROACTIVE NOW IN TERMS OF NOT WAITING FOR THE POLICE.

SO IT'S LIKE, EVEN IN THE GOOD NEWS, WE'RE DIVIDED.

I JUST -- I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE IT'S LIKE THAT EVERYWHERE, BUT EVEN IN THESE LITTLE VICTORIES, WE'RE DIVIDED.

I THINK THAT SAYS A LOT.

>> AND I THINK THAT DAN IS DOING WHAT -- TO ALVIN'S POINT, I MEAN, THERE'S -- YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO GET ACCUSED OF MINIMIZING THE PROBLEM IF YOU POINT OUT THAT IT'S SOMEHOW GOTTEN BETTER OR LESSER, BUT WHY NOT?

IF YOU -- ONE OF THE THINGS, I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE, REALLY, UNIVERSALLY THINK THAT COMMUNITY POLICING IS A GOOD THING.

WHY NOT POINT OUT THAT YOU'RE DOING COMMUNITY POLICING IN THE CONTEXT OF A STORY THAT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT'S NOT LIKE ANYONE'S OUT THERE SAYING, GEE, THINGS ARE -- THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE A MASSIVE TRAGIC CRIME PROBLEM, BUT YEAH, I SHOULDN'T SEE WHY YOU SHOULDN'T TAKE NOTE OF THAT.

WHO KNOWS IF YOU CAN REALLY MAKE ANY CAUSE AND EFFECT, BUT I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.

>> AND I AGREE WITH THAT.

AS LONG AS WE BLAME THE LEADERS WHEN THINGS GO BAD, WE OUGHT NOT BE UPSET WHEN THE LEADERS TAKE CREDIT WHEN THINGS GO GOOD.

WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE AT FAULT WHEN THINGS WENT BAD OR WHETHER THIS IS THEIR GOOD DEEDS THAT HAVE CAUSED THINGS TO BE GOOD.

IF I WERE THE MAYOR AND I WERE DAN ISOM, I'D POINT WITH PRIDE TO THE FACT THAT HOMICIDES ARE DOWN.

>> WELL, THEY WERE DOWN, BUT STILL, LAST YEAR WAS ONE OF THE WORST YEARS IN A QUARTER CENTURY IN TERMS OF HOMICIDES EVEN THOUGH THE POPULATION IS LOWER.

BUT ALSO, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HOMICIDES IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS AND YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE RAW NUMBERS, AND IT WAS -- 194, JUST SEEMS TO ME THAT -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF A TREND YOU'RE REALLY BUCKING, BUT WHAT ABOUT FIRING -- >> BUT WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO -- >> WHAT NUMBER WOULD YOU BE IMPRESSED WITH?

IF THERE WERE ZERO?

>> IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO, WE HAD 74 WITHIN THE LAST 15 YEARS.

I LIKE THAT NUMBER.

>> OKAY, ALL RIGHT.

>> OKAY, IT'S -- >> AND I THINK LAST YEAR, WHAT'S OBVIOUS THAT IS PEOPLE DIDN'T HAVE WORK.

THEY COULDN'T GO TO, WOULD, INDUSTRIES WERE SHUT DOWN, SO PEOPLE WERE JUST SITTING AROUND AND THERE WAS A HIGH LEVEL OF DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY, PEOPLE WERE SHOOTING EACH OTHER.

YOU KNOW, WE HAD 55 HOMICIDES IN JULY OF 2020 ALONE.

IT WAS A CRAZY, CRAZY YEAR.

SO WHEN WE COME DOWN TO 194, IT'S STILL ONE OF THE WORST YEARS WE'VE HAD.

>> BUT NOBODY'S SAYING THAT.

>> THAT'S -- >> YOU'RE JUST MAKING IT SOUND LIKE, OH, UNTIL THERE'S ZERO MURDERS IN THE CITY, WE SHOULDN'T EVEN RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE LESS MURDERS IN THE CITY.

>> RIGHT.

>> I THINK WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO.

>> HI, CAN YOU IMAGINE PEOPLE -- CAN YOU IMAGINE HOW PEOPLE'S HEADS WOULD EXPLODE IF KIM GARDNER POINTED IT OUT?

BECAUSE THEY BLAME HER FOR EVERYTHING, BUT BOY, IF SHE CAME FORWARD AND SAID SOMETHING, AND THIS CLEARLY ISN'T THE NARRATIVE OF REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS IN JEFF CITY WHO BASICALLY WANT TO USURP THE AUTONOMY OF CITY OFFICIALS ALL THE TIME.

>> BUT WITH KIM GARDNER, RAY, WHAT WE WANT IS CONVICTIONS ON SOME OF THE -- >> I GET IT, I GET IT.

>> AND THAT'S BEEN A HUGE PROBLEM.

>> BUT SHE DOES GET BLAMED FOR CRIME BEING HIGH, BUT -- >> BUT ONCE AGAIN, MAYOR JONES, THERE WAS NO PRESS RELEASE FROM PLAYER JONES SAYING WHAT A TRIUMPHANT MOMENT IT IS THAT THERE WERE 194 MURDERS LAST YEAR?

>> WHY NOT?

WHY NOT?

>> TO ME, I WOULD HAVE COME CLOSE TO IT.

YOU BLAME THE MAYOR FOR EVERYTHING, YOU MIGHT AS WELL -- >> BILL, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE EARNINGS TAX LAWSUIT THAT BEVIS SCHOCK AND OTHERS ARE WAGING AGAINST THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS?

YOU KNOW, WHEN THE RAMS PLAYED IN ST. LOUIS, WHEN THEY PLAYED OUT OF TOWN GAMES, THEY DIDN'T PAY THE EARNINGS TAX.

WHEN THEY PLAYED AT THE EDWARD JONES DOME, THEY PAID THE EARNINGS TAX.

A LOT OF PEOPLE LAST YEAR WHO, BECAUSE OF COVID-19, HAD TO WORK IN THE SUBURBS OR ILLINOIS AND NOT IN THEIR DOWNTOWN OFFICES, THEY DIDN'T WANT TO PAY THE EARNINGS TAX.

KANSAS CITY ISSUE REFUNDS TO THOSE INDIVIDUALS, BUT THE CITY REFUSED, AND ACTUALLY, THE LOCAL COURTS AGREED WITH THE CITY THAT EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE WERE NOT WORKING OR LIVING IN THE CITY, THEY NONETHELESS HAD TO PAY THE EARNINGS TAX LAST YEAR.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> I'VE ALWAYS SUPPORTED THE EARNINGS TAX AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE THE HOLE IN THE DONUT.

I MEAN, THERE'S THE CITY AND THE CITY NEEDS FINANCIAL HELP FROM THE COUNTY, AND PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE COUNTY WHO GO IN TO BASEBALL GAMES AND HOCKEY GAMES OR GO TO WORK THERE EXPECT POLICE PROTECTION, EXPECT THE ROADS TO BE MAINTAINED, AND I THINK THOSE PEOPLE SHOULD PAY A PERCENT.

AND I LIKE BEVIS SCHOCK.

CHARLIE, I KNOW HE'S REPRESENTED YOU, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS AN ILL-ADVISED LAWSUIT.

I THOUGHT THIS IS ONE THAT IF I WERE -- IF I WERE BEVIS SCHOCK'S BOSS, I'D SAY LET THIS ONE GO.

THE CITY NEEDS THE MONEY.

RIGHT NOW, THE CITY SEEMS FLUSH WITH THE DOUGH, BUT I'M HAPPY THAT THE COURT RULED IN FAVOR OF THE CITY AND AGAINST BEVIS SCHOCK.

>> AND IF A JUDGE CAN RULE THAT WAY, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S SOME LEGAL, YOU KNOW -- WHAT AM I SAYING?

LIKE PRECEDENT, OR IT MIGHT GET OVERTURNED AT THE NEXT LEVEL, BUT YOU GOT A JUDGE RULING THAT WAY, IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE IT WAS A WISE AND PRUDENT MOVE TO NOT JUST SEND THE MONEY OUT BECAUSE YOU'RE DEFINITELY NOT GOING TO GET IT BACK.

THE SUPREME COURT COULD RULE THAT ST. LOUIS IS RIGHT AND KANSAS CITY WILL JUST BE OUT OF THAT MONEY.

>> IF REX SINQUEFIELD NO LONGER CARES ABOUT THE EARNINGS TAX S THAT A -- >> OH, YES, HE DOES.

OH YES.

HE'S -- >> IT'S THE FOUNDATION -- >> HE'S BACK.

HE WAS LAYING LOW FOR A WHILE, I GUESS, AND HE'S BACK AND BEVIS SCHOCK WAS ASSOCIATED WITH IT, AND I -- THE ONE THING YOU MENTIONED HIM, THE ONE THING THAT THE OPPONENT -- AND I'M WITH BILL.

I ACTUALLY THINK THE CITY EARNINGS TAX IS A VERY LOGICAL USER TAX, MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

ALWAYS HAS, HAPPY TO PAY IT.

YOU LIVE OUTSIDE IN THE COUNTY, YOU COME IN AND USE THE SERVICES BY DAY, PARTICULARLY IN A DOWNTOWN BUSINESS DISTRICT, YOU EXPECT POLICE PROTECTION, EXPECT FIRE PROTECTION, ACCIDENT TO NOT DRIVE OVER POTHOLES, THE LEAST YOU CAN DO IS PAY A LITTLE.

>> I'M NOT MAD AT BEVIS SCHOCK.

>> AND I ENJOYED THE PROGRAM, I WASN'T HERE, BUT I ENJOYED IT ON THE PODCAST ON NINE PBS.

RAY, YOU SAID IT WOULD BE BEST TO TAKE THAT RAMS SETTLEMENT AND PUT IT IN PEOPLE'S POCKETS AND IT WOULD BE REALLY STIMULATIVE.

>> I DID.

>> 300 BUCKS, RIGHT?

>> MAYBE THIS LAWSUIT WILL PUT THE MONEY BACK IN PEOPLE'S POCKETS AND STIMULATE THE ECONOMY, RIGHT?

>> THIS IS -- >> DIFFERENT, HUH?

>> YEAH, IT'S DIFFERENT.

THE RAMS THING IS -- WHAT DO YOU CALL IT?

A MILK RUN, GRAVY TRAIN?

KIND OF A JED CLAMPETT MOMENT FOR ST. LOUIS, SO I SAY -- ACTUALLY, I WAS HAVING FUN WITH IT, BUT I LIKE MY $393.46.

>> I LIKE THAT JED CLAMPETT MOMENT.

I MIGHT HAVE TO STEAL THAT.

>> HEY, ALVIN DID A GREAT JOB LAST WEEK AND IT WAS A WONDERFUL SHOW.

BY THE WAY, ALL THESE PROGRAMS YOU CAN SEE, EVERYBODY, ON OUR WEBSITE.

HEY, THAT'S ALL WE HAVE FOR RIGHT NOW, BUT DON'T GO AWAY BECAUSE ALVIN AND WENDY WILL BE NEXT UP AND THEY'LL BE TALKING TO DR. MICHAEL KINCH FROM THE ST. LOUIS UNIVERSITY -- OR RATHER THE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE WHERE HE'S PROFESSOR OF RADIATION ONCOLOGY, BUT HE'S ALSO WRITTEN THE BOOK BETWEEN FEAR AND HOPE, A HISTORY OF VACCINES AND HUMAN IMMUNITY.

WHAT A TIMELY GUEST.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.