>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> I'M NOT KIDDING.

TWO DAYS AGO, I SAID, MAN, WE NEED A BIG STORY TO TALK ABOUT.

WE GOT SOME GOOD STUFF, BUT WHAT ARE WE GOING TO REALLY KICK IT OFF WITH?

WELL, WE GOT A LITTLE SOMETHING SOMETHING.

WELCOME TO DONNYBROOK.

I'M SITTING IN FOR CHARLIE BRENNAN FOR THE LAST WEEK.

HE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK AND NEXT WEEK IS DONNYBASH.

IT'S GOING TO BE ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC, SO THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT AND WE'LL KICK IT OFF WITH WENDY WIESE FROM KTRS.

A FOUNDER, BILL McCLELLAN, ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH.

TREMENDOUS COLUMNIST, I MUST SAY.

>> THANK YOU, ALVIN.

>> ANOTHER FOUNDER, RAY HARTMANN.

ANOTHER TREMENDOUS COLUMNIST, RAWSTORY.COM, KTRS.

YOU'LL BE WORKING TONIGHT.

>> YES, SIR.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> AND IN MY SEAT, SARAH FENSKE FOR A SHORT TIME FROM ST. LOUIS PUBLIC RADIO.

SARAH, WHAT'S GOING ON?

WHERE YOU GOING?

>> I'M GOING TO EUCLID MEDIA AND LOOKING FORWARD TO BEING RAY'S BOSS'S BOSS.

THEY ARE A GROWING NEWSPAPER COMPANY AND THEY HAVE THE RIVERFRONT TIMES HERE IN ST. LOUIS AMONG A HALF DOZEN OTHERS AND I'M GOING TO BE RUNNING THE EDITORIAL SIDE OF THEIR OPERATION.

>> CONGRATULATIONS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME BACK TO WHERE YOU BELONG, WHICH IS PRINT.

>> I KIND OF FEEL THAT WAY.

>> RIGHT.

I'M SURE YOU'LL MISS THE BIG GIGANTIC BILLBOARDS ALL OVER TOWN, BUT -- >> OH, THAT'S RIGHT.

THEY PROMISED ME BILLBOARDS FOR THIS NEW PRINT JOB.

>> OH, ALL RIGHT!

THERE WE GO.

BIG NEWS HAPPENING THIS MORNING.

NOW ON MAY 25th, INDICTMENTS HANDED DOWN TO PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN LEWIS REED, ALDERMAN JEFFREY BOYD AND FORMER ALDERMAN JOHN COLLINS-MUHAMMAD, WHO RESIGN, HINTED THAT SOMETHING BIG WAS COMING DOWN THE PIPELINE.

WHAT IT IS IS FEDERAL BRIBERY CHARGES.

THREE FOR COLLINS-MUHAMMAD, TWO FOR THE OTHER TWO GENTLEMEN.

WHERE ARE WE AT, RAY?

I MEAN, THIS IS PROBABLY -- THIS IS THE BIGGEST ST. LOUIS POLITICAL SCANDAL GOING BACK TO WEBBY ON THE CABLE DEAL.

WEB BY WENT TO PRISON, BUT ONLY ONE ALDERMAN DID.

WE'RE A FORMER ALDERMAN, A CURRENT ALDERMAN, AND LEWIS REED, PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD WHO QUITE FRANKLY I THINK SHOULD RESIGN IMMEDIATELY.

HERE WE ARE INTO IT.

WHAT'S UP?

>> I SPOKE TO LEWIS REED ON DONNYBROOK NEWS.

NEWS WHICH IS NEWS TO US.

LEWIS REED I DID TALK TO.

HE HAS PLED NOT GUILTY, HE MAINTAINS HIS INNOCENCE, HAS SAID THAT HE IS -- DOES NOT INTEND TO RESIGN AND THAT HE WILL MOUNT, IN HIS WORDS, A VIGOROUS DEFENSE.

SO THAT'S WHAT LEWIS IS SAYING.

I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU THAT HE SHOULD RESIGN NECESSARILY.

I MEAN, HE CAN IF HE WANTS.

I'M NOT SAYING -- THAT'S HIS DECISION.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WHEN SOMEBODY IS INDICTED, THAT THEY AREN'T ENTITLED TO THEIR PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, AND HE'S GOT TO DO WHAT HE'S GOT TO DO.

>> RAY, I'M WITH YOU ON THE PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BUT HE PRESIDES OVER THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN.

THEY'RE PLANNING TO MEET TOMORROW MORNING AND HE'S PLANNING TO PRESIDE OVER THAT MEETING.

IF YOU READ THE INDICTMENT, THERE'S CLEARLY SOMEONE ON THE WIRE, THERE'S CASH BEING HANDED OFF AND WHAT HAPPENS IN THE CITY IS ALL DEPENDENT ON WHO CAN GET THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN CASH BEHIND-THE-SCENES.

HOW CAN WE HAVE THIS PERSON RUNNING THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN, KNOWING THE EVIDENCE IN THIS INDICTMENT?

>> LET ME SAY WHEN YOU RESIGN, YOU WANT TO GET SOMETHING FOR IT.

>> EXACTLY.

>> SO THAT'S STILL A LITTLE CHIP YOU HAVE, SO IF I WAS LEWIS REED, I WOULD THINK, YOU KNOW, I'LL GIVE THAT TO THE U.S. ATTORNEY WHEN I CHANGE MY PLEA.

THESE THINGS ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO FIGHT WHEN YOU'RE ON A WIRE, YOU KNOW, TAKING MONEY AND TALKING ABOUT TAKING MONEY AND SOME OF IT'S HEARTBREAKING.

LIKE JEFFREY BOYD HAVING HIS CAR FIXED FREE FOR $573 AND YOU THINK, OH, JEFFREY.

IT WOULD BE EASY TO UNDERSTAND IF THIS WAS BIG MONEY GOING AROUND, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, IT WASN'T.

>> AND THAT'S A WISE PERSON, ACTUALLY, SAID EARLIER TODAY THAT IT IS KIND OF STUNNING WHAT SMALL PAYOUTS WILL END A LARGE CAREER OR A PROMISING CAREER.

AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT EVERYBODY MUST HAVE BEEN THINKING WHEN THEY READ THE TRANSCRIPT.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT STRUCK ME, THOUGH?

THIS IS JUST ONE GUY IN THIS INDICTMENT, THIS JOHN DOE, THE GUY GOING AROUND GIVING CASH TO THESE THREE DIFFERENT MEN, GIVING CARS, FIXING CARS.

THIS ALL HAPPENED SO SMOOTHLY AND EASILY.

IT DIDN'T SEEM LIKE THERE WAS A LOT OF INTERNAL DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT ONE WAS DOING THE RIGHT THING.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU GOT THE SENSE, THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT HAD BEEN DONE BEFORE.

THEY JUST GOT THE ONE GUY WITH THE WIRE, SO THESE ARE SMALL AMOUNTS OF MONEY FOR THIS ONE PERSON.

WHAT IS HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENES AT ST. LOUIS CITY HALL?

>> I THINK IT'S BUSINESS AS USUAL.

WHEN JOHN COLLINS-MUHAMMAD WAS TELLING THE BUSINESSMAN, YOU KNOW, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, KNOWING HE'S WEARING A WIRE, AND MUHAMMAD WAS SAYING, WELL, WE'RE HERE TO HELP.

>> WE'RE HERE TO HELP SMALL BUSINESSES.

>> HELP SMALL BUSINESS.

I'M JUST DOING MY JOB.

THAT'S THE OUTLOOK AT CITY HALL.

>> IT LOOKS LIKE -- I GUESS WE CAN'T TELL YET, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS A STING.

MEANING IT WAS SOMEBODY DECIDED TO SET THIS UP, AND THAT DOES -- AND AGAIN, IT DOES NOT SPEAK TO THESE FOLKS, WHETHER THEY'RE GUILTY OR INNOCENT, BUT IT DOES RAISE A QUESTION AS IF YOU'RE GOING -- TO THE EXTENT THIS IS A WIDESPREAD THING IN GOVERNMENT, HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHO YOU'RE PUTTING THE STING ON TO?

IN OTHER WORDS, WHO WILL YOU NOT DOING WITH THE STING?

BECAUSE CERTAINLY THRG A WHOLE LOT OF FOLKS IN ST. LOUIS CITY AROUND THE POLITICAL CLASS WHO MAKE A LOT MORE MONEY THAN THIS OFF OF MAYBE A LEGALIZED FORM OF THIS, BUT THE IDEA IS -- AND I'M NOT, GERNG IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE GUYS.

IF THEY'RE INNOCENT OR GUILTY, THEY'RE GUILTY, AND BILL POINTS OUT, EVEN IF THEY WERE PLANNING TO RESIGN, THEY WOULDN'T DO IT UNTIL THEY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO NEGOTIATE.

BUT I WILL SAY THIS.

IT DOES RAISE A QUESTION HOW YOU DECIDE -- >> WHO'S GOING TO GO.

>> NO NO, NO.

LIKE SARAH SAID, THEY HAD AN INKLING THAT THESE GUYS ARE TAKING PAYOFFS.

WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE WE CAN SEE IF THEY'RE TAKING PAYOFFS AND I DON'T THINK IT'S A COINCIDENCE THAT THEY WENT DOWN TO THE ATM MACHINE AND WITHDRAWING MONEY AND COUNTING IT OUT AND ALL THAT.

THAT MEANS THAT, OH NO, THIS KIND OF THING GOES ON ALL THE TIME AND IF YOU READ -- PLEASE GO ONLINE, FIND THE INDICTMENT AND READ THE CONVERSATIONS.

THAT'S ALL I GOT TO TELL YOU.

>> YEAH, WORD FOR WORD.

>> WORD FOR WORD.

>> ONE THING ELSE THAT GOES ON AT CITY HALL.

WE SHOULD MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THIS IS NOT EVERYBODY AT CITY HALL.

>> OH NO.

>> AND IN FACT, MAYOR TISHAURA JONES, THESE ARE HER ENEMIES.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> I MEAN, LEWIS REED -- >> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> -- JEFFREY BOYD.

I'M NOT SURE ABOUT -- >> ABOUT COLLINS-MUHAMMAD OR -- BUT WHILE WE KNOW SHE WAS DIAGNOSED WITH COVID TODAY, IT PROBABLY WASN'T A TOTAL WASH.

I KNOW THAT SHE'S SADDENED, DEEPLY DISTURBED, BUT AS YOU SAID, THESE ARE -- >> TWO OF HER STRONGEST ENEMIES.

>> WHEN I SAID WHAT I SAID, I'M NOT IMPLYING THAT ANYONE IN PARTICULARLY -- CERTAINLY NOT EVERYONE WOULD DO THERE.

I'M JUST SAYING HOW DO YOU DECIDE -- AND MAYBE YOU'RE RIGHT, MAYBE THEY HAD AN INKLING ON THIS, BUT IT'S INTERESTING HOW THEY DECIDED TO DO IT.

AGAIN, IT DOESN'T HAVE -- OBVIOUS, THE FOUR CORNERS OF THIS CASE WHENEVER THE FEDS INDICT YOU AND THEY HAVE THIS MUCH OUT, DON'T LOOK GOOD.

>> AND I DON'T THINK I'D EVER GO DOWN AND SAY, HEY, LAWYER, WHY ME?

>> WHY NOT SOMEBODY ELSE?

>> EVERYBODY WAS SPEEDING, OFFICER.

>> EXACTLY.

>> NO, I'M GIVING YOU A TICKET.

ONE LAST THING.

THE THREE INDIVIDUALS INDICTED WERE THE THREE STRONGEST -- I THINK JOHN COLLINS-MUHAMMAD'S NAME IS ON THE LAWSUIT AGAINST PROPOSITION R, WHICH LOVE IT, HATE IT, WAS ABOUT MAKING PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR DECISIONS, I.E., TRYING TO TAKE SOME OF THE MAYBE DIRT OUT OF THE POLITICS.

I THINK THAT EFFORT HAS PROBABLY GONE DOWN THE DRAIN.

>> THOSE GUYS ISSUED A RELEASE TODAY CROWING, MAKING CLEAR THEY HAD MEDIA AVAILABILITY AND -- OH YES, THIS IS WHY WE WERE PUSHING FOR THESE REFORMS.

>> I HAD NOT SEEN THAT YET.

OKAY, ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN -- >> YEAH, THEY'RE KIND OF ENTITLED TO THAT, I GUESS.

>> FOR SURE.

THEY EARNED THAT.

>> AND ONCE AGAIN, I THINK HE SHOULD RESIGN IMMEDIATELY, BUT OKAY, HE DOESN'T.

SHOULD HE PRESIDE OVER THIS MEETING TOMORROW MORNING?

>> YEAH.

>> AT THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN?

SERIOUSLY, HE SHOULD GO DOWN THERE AND LEAD A MEETING AT THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN.

>> THAT'S PRETTY DIFFICULT.

>> HE'S -- IF HE'S INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY AND HE DOESN'T RESIGN, WHAT IS HE -- >> I THINK HE AT LEAST NEEDS TO GO ON LEAVE.

I GET IF HE DOESN'T WANT TO ACTUALLY RESIGN, U BUT HE NEEDS TO GO ON LEAVE.

>> HE NEEDS TO HANG ON TO THAT SHIP AS LONG AS HE POSSIBLY CAN.

>> BUT HOW DO YOU PRESIDE AT A MEETING?

>> VALID POINT.

>> THERE WILL BE PROTESTS TOMORROW MORNING.

I'M PUTTING MONEY ON THAT.

>> OH, I THINK SOME PEOPLE WILL PROBABLY BE DOWN AT THE CITY.

>> I THINK THERE WILL BE.

>> I GOT TO COVER THE RACE TOMORROW OR ELSE I'D BE THERE.

OKAY, REVEREND DUVAL, HE WAS ON ONE OF THE COMMITTEES -- >> THE JAIL ADVISORY BOARD.

>> JAIL ADVISORY BOARD.

HE WENT SCORCHED EARTH.

NOW, SAM PAGE IN THE COUNTY SAYS HE DOESN'T REALLY LIVE HERE ANYMORE.

I GUESS MAYBE HE DOES, MAYBE HE DOESN'T, BUT HE SAYS BETWEEN NEGLECT AND PEOPLE BEING OVERWORKED AND THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE'S OFFICE NOT DOING ITS JOB, HE WAS FED UP, I'M RESIGNING.

SARAH, I FEEL LIKE IT'S SOUR GRAPES ON THE WAY OUT THE DOOR.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

REVEREND DUVAL HAS HAD CONCERNS ABOUT THIS ADVISORY BOARD ALMOST THE ENTIRE TIME HE'S BEEN ON IT.

HE'S TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE SET THINGS UP TO SWEEP ISSUES UNDER THE RUG RATHER THAN INVESTIGATE THEM.

HE GOT INTO IT TO TRY TO HOLD THE JAIL ACCOUNTABLE.

WE KNOW THAT COUNTY JAIL HAD SOME BIG PROBLEMS.

HE SAYS HE LIKES THE GUY WHO WAS BROUGHT IN TO RUN IT, THIS GUY SCOTT ANDERS CAME OUT OF THE FEDERAL SYSTEM.

HE SEEMS TO BE A GOOD GUY AND REFORMER, BUT REVEREND DUVAL SAYS HE'S BEING HELD BACK BY A CABAL WITHIN THE JAIL, THAT THIS ADVISORY BOARD IS LOOKING THE OTHER WAY, THAT THEY'VE STRUCTURED HOW THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK AT SOME OF THESE THINGS SO THEY CAN'T GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THINGS, AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, HE'S MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE NOT TO SANCTION IT WITH HIS PRESENCE.

I RESPECT THAT.

>> I HAD HIM ON THE AIR, REVEREND DUVAL, AND HE SPECIFICALLY DENIES HAVING LEFT ST. LOUIS.

HE SAYS HE HAS A HOUSE, VOTES HERE AND PAYS TAXES HERE, BUT HE COMMUTES TO ANOTHER STATE FOR WORK.

BUT -- >> WHAT HE DID SAY, RAY, OKLAHOMA?

>> YEAH, OKLAHOMA.

AND SO I DON'T KNOW -- I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THAT'S REALLY RELEVANT ANYWAY.

I THINK THAT -- AND IT DOESN'T -- I DON'T THINK IT WAS GREAT TO SAM PAGE'S SPOKESPERSON TO BRING THAT OUT AS IF THAT WAS EVEN RELEVANT.

I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK THAT IN RECENT TIMES, WHETHER IT WAS TROY DOYLE OR DOUG BURRIS, WHO I GOT TO MEET AND GAVE ME A TOUR OF THE JAIL, WHO WAS REALLY HIGHLY REGARDED, I THINK, THERE AND DID A GOOD JOB FOR A YEAR AND THE GENTLEMAN WHO SUCCEEDED -- >> ANDERS.

>> ANDERS, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE THE ISSUE.

I DO THINK THAT THE BEST POINT THAT -- I THOUGHT HE HAD ONE GOOD LINE WHEN I TALKED TO HIM, WHICH WAS THAT THE COUNTY JAIL IS PRETTY MUCH LIKE THE CITY JAILS EXCEPT THE LOCKS WORK AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE'S SOME COMMON PROBLEMS HERE.

HE SUGGESTED, AND I THINK IT'S WORTH LOOKING AT, HAVING A PERMANENT OVERSIGHT BOARD WITH SUBPOENA POWER RATHER THAN ESSENTIALLY HAVING THE JAIL INVESTIGATE ITSELF ON SOME OF THESE TOUGH ISSUES.

I THINK WHATEVER YOU THINK ABOUT HIS -- AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE MERIT OF HIS CONCERNS.

I THINK THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD IDEA AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY ARGUE THAT MAYBE A CITY-COUNTY BOARD THAT WAS MUCH LIKE THE MAJOR CASE SQUAD COMBINING RESOURCES, TO LOOK AT THIS PROBLEM WITH JAILS, SO ENDEMIC IN THIS AREA.

I'M NOT SURE IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE SOMEBODY TO HAVE INOVERSIGHT.

>> WELL, INDEPENDENT OF REVEREND DUVAL'S RESIGNATION COMES THE NEWS THAT THE JAIL HAS NO RECORDS OF INMATE'S DEATH JUST A FEW YEARS AGO AND A LAWSUIT'S GOING ON.

HOW CAN YOU NOT HAVE RECORDS OF SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

WELL, WE DON'T -- >> AND IT WAS VERY DISMISSIVE.

>> OH, DOUG MOORE, SAM PAGE'S SPOKESMAN A OLD ON COLLEAGUE OF MINE SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

>> HOW CAN YOU NOT?

I WOULD ASK EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

>> ESPECIALLY FOR THE SAME REASON THAT YOU NEED TO COME UP WITH IT BECAUSE YOU'RE GETTING SUED.

I THINK I WOULD HAVE EVERY RECORD -- >> THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IN THE COURTROOM.

>> THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

AND THIS IS A -- I DON'T MEAN TO BE SNARKY, BUT SOMETIMES SCREEDS ARE OFTEN ACCOMPANIED BY MISSPELLING PEOPLE'S NAMES AND HE HAD SAM PAGE'S NAME SPELLED WRONG ON THE ORIGINAL ONE AND I POINTED OUT, YOU MIGHT WANT TO FIX -- >> REVEREND DUVAL HAS BEEN AN ACTIVIST IN THIS TOWN A LONG TIME AND HE ANNOUNCED ON MY SHOW, AT LEAST HE CLAIMS HE'S GOING TO PASS THE MANTLE OF ACTIVISM ON.

I THINK HE HAS A LOT TO BE PROUD OF.

AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW THE PARTICULARS OF WHAT HE'S CONCERNED ABOUT, AND HE PARTICULARLY CALLED OUT COUNTY COUNCILOR BETH ORWORK FOR A LACK OF TRANSPARENCY AND HE AIN'T THE FIRST PERSON TO DO THAT, SO I THINK IT'S AT LEAST -- I THINK THE AUDIT THAT THEY'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT HE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT IS COMING OUT PRETTY SOON AND MAYBE IT WILL SHOW GREAT THINGS GLEE SAYS IT WILL BECAUSE THEY'VE WRITTEN IT IN A WAY WHERE THEY CAN'T DIG INTO ANY OF THE STUFF THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT.

THERE'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM.

>> I THINK HE GAVE US A LITTLE TIPOFF WHEN HE SAID, I THINK THERE'S SOME POSITIVE NEWS IN THERE.

>> YEAH, IT WILL BE FINE.

>> ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT, THAT WAS LIKE THE FEDERAL COURT COMING OUT AND SAYING I THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME NEWS TOMORROW MORNING.

I THINK YOU KNOW SOMETHING, BUT THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT'S COMING, YUP.

>> THE PEOPLE WHO -- I DON'T KNOW IF THEY KNOW ANYTHING OR NOT.

WHO'S RUNNING TRUDY BUSCH VALENTINE'S CAMPAIGN?

SHE WAS GOING TO HAVE A NRA FUNDRAISER IN THE FALL THAT WAS CANCELLED AND, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT BOTH WAYS KIND OF LIKE, WELL, WHY DID YOU CANCEL IT IF YOU WANT TO -- THEM TO SUPPORT YOU.

THEN YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND AFTER THINGS THAT HAVE GONE ON OVER THE LAST TWO AND A HALF WEEKS.

WENDY, WHERE IS THE CAMPAIGN AT AND CAN YOU STAND BEHIND -- >> I THINK THAT SHE MIGHT WANT TO GET A LITTLE BIT OF FRESH, YOU KNOW, NEW BLOOD IN HER CAMPAIGN IN TERMS OF HER DIRECTION BECAUSE SHE DID PICK UP QUITE A FEW 20th CENTURY DEMOCRATIC ST. LOUIS ENDORSEMENTS TODAY AND THAT IS -- THAT IS CERTAINLY GOOD NEWS, BUT THE NRA SITUATION, GRANT'S FARM AND THE WAY -- SHE HAS SEVERAL SIBLINGS.

SHE HAS SEVERAL HALF SIBLINGS, SO I DON'T HOLD HER ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT.

SHE HAD TO -- SHE HAD TO KNOW THE OPTICS, EVEN BEFORE UVALDE, WERE NOT GOOD AND, YOU KNOW, ON THE HEELS OF THE VEILED PROPHET SITUATION, SHE'S GOT TO HAVE SOMEBODY WHO IS THINKING STRATEGICALLY AND LOOKING AT THE PAST AND TRYING TO GET AHEAD OF IT.

BUT I DON'T BLAME HER FOR THE NRA FUNDRAISER AT GRANT'S FARM BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF ORGANIZATIONS, REALLY WORTHWHILE ORGANIZATIONS, USE GRANT'S FARM AND WHO KNOWS -- THE STORY I READ DIDN'T POINT FINGERS AS TO WHO HAD ACTUALLY GIVEN PERMISSION OR ORGANIZED.

>> I THINK ONE OF THE BROTHERS DID.

>> THAT'S RIGHT, YEAH.

AND SHE CAN'T BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR POLITICAL PEDIGREE.

>> BUT YOU WILL THINK THAT HER FAMILY WOULD BE SAVVY ENOUGH TO GO, IF YOU'RE RUNNING FOR THE NOMINATION AS A DEMOCRAT, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT THE NRA INVOLVED IN IT.

I THINK HER BIGGER PROBLEM, THOUGH, IS A STORY IN THE RIVERFRONT TIMES A WEEK OR SO AGO, THAT SHE'S NOT GOING OUT AND TALKING TO GROUPS.

GROUPS HAVE ASKED HER, YOU KNOW, TO COME TO THE FORUM OR A DEBATE AND SHE'S -- SHE HAS BEEN HESITANT TO DO THAT.

THAT WOULD BE A GREATER PROBLEM FOR HER.

>> THAT'S TRUE TOO.

>> I THINK SHE KIND OF EXPECTED TO BE CORE RON NATED, AT LEAST ON THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY AND THAT'S SO CLEARLY NOT HAPPENING.

IT DOES FEEL LIKE THERE'S SOME REALLY CHEAP SHOTS.

THERE'S BEEN NATIONAL COVERAGE REFERRING TO GRANT'S FARM AS HER PLANTATION.

THE BUSCH FAMILY ACQUIRED THIS IN THE 20th CENTURY.

THERE ARE SOME FAIR SHOTS ON THIS WOMAN, BUT ALSO SOME UNFAIR SHOT.

>> SHE HAS A GREAT RESUME, A NURSE ASH DON'T.

>> AND DEVOTED.

>> I HAPPENED TO HAVE SAID ON THIS SHOW.

I THINK LEWIS KUNCE IS AN INTERESTING DIFFERENT KIND OF POPULIST DEMOCRAT, BUT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE TO SORT THIS OUT.

IT'S TWO MONTHS TO THE DAY THAT THE PRIMARY IS TAKING PLACE AND THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER ON THIS STORY AND ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE IS THE REAL ELECTION THAT MATTERS IS IN NOVEMBER WHEN HER -- THIS KIND OF STORY WILL BE MEANINGLESS THEN.

I MEAN, IT WON'T -- I AGREE WITH WHAT'S SAID.

IT LOOKS AWKWARD IN A PRIMARY, BUT WHETHER IT'S ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE OR DEMOCRATIC SIDE, THIS IS THAT TWO-MONTH PERIOD WHERE THEY BATTLE IT OUT ON ISSUES THAT, REGARDLESS OF WHICH PARTY IT IS, KIND OF DON'T MATTER AFTER -- ON THE BIG RACE.

>> NOW, I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE, THAT I THINK, YOU KNOW, ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, IF YOU WANT TO STOP ERIC GREITENS, ONE OF THE BIG THREE HAS GOT TO DROP OUT, OKAY?

SHOULD SHE DROP OUT?

>> WHO?

>> SHE JUST GOT IN.

>> SHE WAS A LATE BLOOMER.

>> SHE JUST GOT IN BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATIC ESTABLISHMENT, WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, THE MAINSTREAM DEMOCRATIC PARTY, DOES NOT WANT LUCAS KUNCE.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

NOT THAT HE HASN'T PICKED UP SOME ENDORSEMENTS AND STUFF AND HE'S AT LEAST IN THE 21st CENTURY, BUT IN FAIRNESS, SHE'S GOTTEN SOME -- >> IT'S EARLY FOR HER.

>> HE'S GOT SOME SERIOUS -- >> BUT IT'S EARLY FOR HER.

>> EMMANUEL CLEAVER, LYDA KREWSON BEEN.

>> BOB HOLDEN.

>> DICK GEBHART.

THAT IS SO -- WHEN I USED TO WORK IN MICHIGAN -- >> BUT ALVIN, THERE ARE NOT THAT MANY DEMOCRATS THAT -- [ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ] >> GOOD POINT, GOOD POINT.

>> I DON'T THINK HER ENDORSEMENTS ARE THAT BAD.

I THINK HE'S GOTTEN A BUNCH OF THEM AS WELL AND -- BUT THE ISSUE IS, AND THERE WAS A POLL THAT INDICATED IT WAS, WHAT, KMOV OR ONE OF THEM, THAT HAD INDICATED IT WAS WIDE -- WAY WIDE OPEN IN TERMS OF THE TWO OF THEM AND WE GOT TO ALSO ALWAYS REMEMBER, THIS ELECTION ISN'T GOING TO BE DECIDED IN ST. LOUIS.

IT'S A STATEWIDE ELECTION.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

I THINK IF ERIC GREITENS IS THE CANDIDATE THEY'RE RUNNING AGAINST, THEY BOTH HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN.

>> VERY LIKEABLE AND IF SHE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY -- >> I WISH SHE HAD DECLARE SHE WAS GOING TO RUN A YEAR AGO.

>> SHE MIGHT BE A GOOD CANDIDATE.

>> YOU MENTIONED ERIC GREITENS.

I'M GOING BACK TO YOU, RAY.

ERIC GREITENS, VICKY HARTZLER, ERIC SCHMITT, THEY SKIP THE BIG DEBATE IN SPRINGFIELD.

IT DOES HURT ANY OF THEM?

AND YOU HAVE AN INTERESTING ASPECT AS TO WHO THE MODERATOR WAS.

>> IT WASN'T ME.

IT WAS THE KANSAS CITY STAR.

IN KANSAS CITY, THERE IS A SCANDAL THAT IS BEING -- HAS A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR, AND IT IS BECAUSE ERIC GREITENS USED APPARENTLY ON-DUTY POLICE OFFICERS ON A -- HE DID A RIDE WHERE -- >> A RIDE-ALONG.

>> A RIDE-ALONG WITH THEM AND USED IT IN A CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL.

AND THERE IS QUESTION AS TO WHETHER THOSE -- THE OFFICERS IN THERE, ONE OF WHOM THE STAR HAS REPORTED IS THE SON OF A COUNCIL PERSON THERE, I BELIEVE, MIGHT HAVE VIOLATED LAWS BY PARTICIPATING.

SO THERE'S A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR WHO'S LOOKING INTO THIS.

NOW, ERIC GREITENS IS NOT THE TARGET, BUT THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR IS LOOKING INTO THIS.

WELL, THAT PERSON HAPPENED TO BE THE MODERATOR OF THE SENATE DEBATE IN SPRINGFIELD.

WHO KNEW?

YOU KIND OF HAVE TO GIVE GREITENS A PASS FOR GOING TO THAT ONE.

IT'S THIS UNBELIEVABLE -- AND THE STORY GOT MORE NATIONAL ATTENTION.

AGAIN, I DON'T -- >> GREITENS SHOULD HAVE GONE.

IT WAS A CHANCE TO CURRY FAVOR.

>> IF SOMEBODY IS DOING THAT WITH ME, I'M NOT GOING TO STAND HIM UP.

>> THIS IS ONE OF THOSE, YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS UP, STORIES.

YOU CAN'T MAKE IT UP.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

YOU'RE COUNSELING ON CHARM.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY, WHAT DO YOU DO.

>> WHAT AN EXPECTING PIVOT IT'S GOING TO BE FOR THOSE FOLKS BECAUSE THEY'VE HAD A BLOOD BATH OF A PRIMARY.

THERE'S NO QUESTION.

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS DROPPING OUT WITHIN THE NEXT TWO MONTHS AND AT THAT POINT ON, IT'S ALMOST TOO LATE TO MATTER ANYWAY EVEN IF THEY DID DROP OUT.

IT'S NOT LIKE PEOPLE AUTOMATICALLY GO.

I THINK IT WILL BE REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE HOW A SCHMITT OR A HARTZLER CAN POSSIBLY PIVOT TO SAY THEY'RE VOTING FOR ERIC GREITENS AFTER THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN SAID.

>> WELL, SHE'S ALREADY SAID SHE WOULDN'T.

>> HARTZLER SAID SHE WOULD NOT.

>> THEY SAID THAT ON -- THAT'S THE ONLY QUESTION, BUT WE'LL SEE.

SHE MIGHT WIN.

>> AND ERIC SCHMITT SAID HE HAD ALREADY PARTICIPATED IN DEBATES IN STRIFLD, SO -- >> AND VICKY HARTZLER WAS AT A FUNDRAISER WITH JOSH HAWLEY -- >> WHO ENDORSED HER.

>> -- WHO ENDORSED AND JUST BASED ON THINGS, CAN'T STAND ERIC GREITENS AND BILL HAS EXPLAINED IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ONE MAGA -- >> YEAH, ONE MAGA BIG DOG PER STATE.

>> WHY MONTHS ONE TALKING ABOUT MARK McCLOSKEY.

HE, TOO, IS RUNNING.

>> AND HE WAS THERE.

HE LOOKED KIND OF LONELY ON THE DAIS.

>> HE HASN'T REALLY CAUGHT FIRE.

HE NEEDS ANOTHER CROWD TO WALK PAST THE MANSION.

>> HE CAN OPEN FIRE THIS TIME, GET ME SOME VOTES.

BILL, REAL QUICK, IN THE LAKE OF THE OZARKS AREA AROUND CAMDEN, CRIME OUT OF CONTROL.

PEOPLE ARE DOWN THERE BECAUSE COVID-FREE NO -- COVID-FREE, NO MASKS, NO NOTHING DURING THE HEIGHT OF THE PANDEMIC, BUT POLICE ARE OVERRUN WITH CRIME AND THEY'RE COMPLAINING.

MAYBE THEY'D LIKE TO COME TO ST. LOUIS AND WORK.

>> I THINK THAT STORY IS OVERBLOWN.

IT'S ONE OF THOSE SUMMER STORIES YOU'RE LOOKING FOR, AND HEY, CRIME IS UP THERE, BUT IT'S NOT A LOT OF MURDERS.

IT'S A LOT OF DRUGS AND -- BUSINESS HAS BEEN BOOMING FOR THEM EVER SINCE THEY HAD THOSE POOL PARTIES IN THE MIDST OF COVID AND EVERYBODY SAID THIS IS THE PLACE TO GO PARTY.

BUSINESS IS GOOD AND WHEN BUSINESS IS GOOD, CRIME OFTEN FOLLOWS ALONG.

AND, OF COURSE, I GET CALLS FROM FRIENDS FROM OUT OF STATE ALL THE TIME WHO WORK OZARK AND SAY IS IT REALLY LIKE THAT?

SO, YOU KNOW, THINGS ARE GOOD IN OZARK AND I DON'T PUT A LOT OF CREDENCE TO THE CRIME PROBLEM.

>> I LIKE THAT, BUSINESS IS BOOMING, CRIME FOLLOWS.

SOUNDS LIKE A MAN FROM CHICAGO.

>> THERE CRIME IS BOOMING AND BUSINESS FOLLOWS.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU, MOSTLY IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE LITTLE -- >> DRUNKS.

>> DRUNKS, YES, NOT TO PUT TOO FINE A POINT ON IT.

MAYBE THEY'RE INTOXICATED AND THEY GET ROUGH WITH EACH OTHER AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

>> BUT OZARK BRINGS ALL THESE PEOPLE IN, SO IS MONEY LAUNDERING UP?

THE KANSAS CITY STAR DID NOT COVER THAT ANGLE.

>> WHEN MY BOSS'S BOSS IS MY BOSS, WE GAVE THIS THE PROPER TITLE, WHICH IS PARTY COVID.

>> DO YOU REMEMBER THOSE PHOTOS?

>> THAT'S WHEN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY WAS FIGHTING AND EVERYBODY WAS BEING CAREFUL.

>> WE WEREN'T EVEN USING SUNSCREEN, RIGHT?

>> IT WASN'T AS MUCH THE PUBLICITY THAT WE GOT FOR FERGUSON, BUT IT WAS ABOUT THE NEXT BEST THING.

NOT ST. LOUIS, BUT MISSOURI.

MISSOURI WAS GETTING INTERNATIONAL COVERAGE.

>> PEOPLE WANT TO MOVE THERE.

>> INTERNATIONAL COVERAGE FOR THE APPARENT NON-INTELLIGENCE OF PEOPLE, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DESCRIBE IT, PARTYING -- I MEAN RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING.

I MEAN, IT WAS -- >> WHEN THINGS WERE CLOSING DOWN.

>> IT WAS US AND ONE LITTLE STRIP OF THINGS IN RON DeSANTIS'S FLORIDA.

THAT WAS IT.

>> I WILL SAY THIS.

OKAY, I'M KIND OF MAKING FUN, BUT POLICE OFFICERS, THEY KNOW.

DOMESTIC CAUSE, LITTLE FRIVOLOUS CALLS, THAT WILL BE THE ONE WHERE SOME ABSOLUTE MAYHEM HAPPENS, SO I THINK THEY ARE SAYING LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SEEING A LOT MORE NUISANCE STUFF AND AT THE SAME TIME, EVERY TIME, YOU KNOW, I GO MY 1-ADAM-12, 1-ADAM-12, SEE THE MAN, WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING ON?

NO LETTERS TONIGHT, BUT IF YOU WANT TO WRITE TO US, SEND IT TO DONNYBROOK CARE OF NINE PBS, 3655 OLIVE STREET, ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 63108.

YOU CAN SEND US AN EMAIL TO DONNYBROOK@NINEPBS.ORG.

TWEET #DONNYBROOKSTL.

YOU CAN ALSO CATCH US AT YOUR FAVORITE PODCAST SPOT AND WE ARE THERE.

COMING UP NEXT, JEFFREY NUSSBAUM, FORMER SENIOR SPEECHWRITER FOR PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN.

HE'S ALSO AN AUTHOR.

HE'S GOT SOME FANTASTIC THINGS TO SAY ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE YOU MAY NOT HAVE EVER HEARD AND WE HEARD FROM SARAH FENSKE THIS EVENING.

SARAH FENSKE, WHILE YOU WERE NOT BE AT ST. LOUIS PUBLIC RADIO, YOU WILL BE IN ST. LOUIS AND I'M GOING TO PUT IT ON IT THIS THAT YOU ARE ALWAYS WELCOME HERE.

>> WELL, THANK YOU, I'M GOING TO HOLD YOU TO THAT.

>> HEY PRODUCER, I DON'T KNOW IF I WAS SUPPOSED TO SAY THAT OR NOT.

ANYWAY, STAY TUNED FOR NEXT UP.

WE DO APPRECIATE YOU WATCHING AND WE'LL SEE YOUR SMILING FACES LIVE AND IN COLOR AT DONNYBASH NEXT WEEK AT THE SHELDON.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

ENJOY ILLINOIS 300 COMING UP.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.