>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK ON WHAT I THINK IS THE LAST DAY OF THE FIRST HALF OF 2022.

IN THE WORDS OF JON BON JOVI, WE'RE HALFWAY THERE.

LET'S FIND OUT WHO'S GOING TO JOIN US AND DISCUSS THE HOT TOPICS ON THIS WEEK'S EPISODE OF DONNYBROOK.

SHE'S SARAH FENSKE, NOW THE EXECUTIVE EDITOR OF THE EUCLID MEDIA GROUP.

WE WELCOME HER SITTING IN FOR WENDY WIESE, TAKING THE WEEK OFF.

MR. BILL McCLELLAN IS WITH US, COLUMNIST WITH THE POST-DISPATCH AND STL TODAY.COM.

AEPS COLUMNIST AND HOST WITH RIVERFRONT TIMES, THE BIG 550, RART.

AND EDITOR AND SPORTS COLUMNIST WITH THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN, ALVIN REID.

I WANT TO POINT OUT BEFORE WE BEGIN THE PROGRAM THAT YOU MAY NOTICE THE CHANGING ARTWORK BEHIND US.

THAT'S RIGHT, WE'RE ASKING ARTISTS TO LOAN US THEIR GREAT WORK ON A ROTATING BASIS SO THAT WE CAN DISPLAY THE GREAT ART OF ST. LOUIS.

THAT HAPPENS TO BE FROM AMY FIRESTONE ROSEN WHO HAS TWO EXHIBITS OPENING TOMORROW, ONE AT THE ST. LOUIS ARTISTS GUILD AND ANOTHER, RETHINKING THE PARTY DRESS, AT THE FOUNDRY ARTS CENTER ON MAIN STREET IN ST. CHARLES.

WE THANK YOU HER FOR LOANING THAT BEAUTIFUL PIECE AND WE ALSO WANT TO THANK JOE MOSKOS OF THE ENGUARD ARTS HOTEL.

THERE YOU HAVE THAT.

ALVIN REID, LAST FRIDAY, DAY AFTER OUR MOST RECENT DONNYBROOK, WELL, THE SUPREME COURT DID WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO DO.

6-3 VOTE, SAYING THERE'S NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO AN ABORTION IN THE UNITED STATES AND ALMOST IMMEDIATELY, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE GOVERNOR IN THIS STATE OF MISSOURI TOOK ACTION AND THERE'S NO ABORTION, NO LEGAL ABORTION IN MISSOURI ANYMORE EXCEPT FOR MEDICAL EMERGENCIES.

MAYOR TISHAURA JONES OF THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS SAID THAT SHE THINKS IT'S GOING TO MEAN IT'S GOING TO TOUGH TO ATTRACT BUSINESSES, MAYBE STUDENTS AND OTHERS TO VISIT OUR AREA.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK IN A REGION LIKE OURS, IT'S DESPERATE TO GET ANYTHING WE CAN TO COME HERE, AND I DON'T MEAN THAT WE'RE THE DREGS OF QUETION WORLD, BUT IT WILL -- CONVENTION WORLD, BUT IT WILL HURT BECAUSE SOONER OR LATER, SOMEBODY WILL SAY THIS IS TOO MUCH AND I'M NOT TAKING MY BUSINESS OR MY CONVENTION OR GATHERING TO A STATE THAT IS THIS DRACONIAN ABOUT WHAT WAS A CONSTITUTIONAL LAW UNTIL, YOU KNOW, REALLY UNTIL WE LEARNED OF THE LEAKED DOCUMENT.

BUT REALLY TILL FRIDAY.

SO YEAH, I MEAN, SOONER OR LATER, THERE WILL BE A FACTUAL EVIDENCE THAT IT COST US SOMETHING.

BUT OUR LEADERS OF THE STATE CAN CARE LESS AND THAT'S JUST PART OF THE WHOLE SAD SAGA.

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT CONVENTIONS.

I FEEL LIKE THERE ARE SO MANY STATES IN THE SAME BOAT AS NOW, RIGHT NOW WHERE ABORTION IS EFFECTIVELY ILLEGAL.

IN THE MAJORITY OF STATES ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.

I DO THINK IT'S GOING TO HURT US WITH PEOPLE WANTING TO MOVE IN, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK THESE KIND OF POLITICS HAVE BEEN HURTING US FOR A LONG TIME.

I MEAN, YOU TALK TO SOMEBODY WHO LIVES IN CALIFORNIA, WHO LIVES IN NEW YORK, TRY TO GET THEM TO TAKE A JOB IN ST. LOUIS.

THAT WAS A REALLY HARD JOB EVEN BEFORE THIS.

THAT SHIP HAS ALREADY SAILED.

>> I THINK TISHAURA JONES IS RIGHT.

I MEAN, I THINK THAT -- AND UNDERSTAND, CONVENTIONS ARE PLANNED SEVERAL YEARS OUT, SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING LIKELY TO BE FELT EARLY ON, BUT A LOT OF BLUE STATES HAVE BIG CITIES IN THEM AND I DON'T -- WHERE IT'S NOT LIKE EVERYBODY'S GOING TO BOYCOTT EVERY STATE JUST BECAUSE IT'S RED, BUT A STATE LIKE MISSOURI THAT TAKES SO MUCH PRIDE IN BEING, LIKE, THE MOST -- ONE OF THE MOST EXTREME, ANTI-CHOICE STATES, I DO THINK SHE'S RIGHT.

I THINK IT CAN -- WE HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS, ENOUGH, YOU KNOW, FACTORS THAT THIS -- IF WE HAD EVERYTHING ELSE GOING GREAT, THEN IT MIGHT NOT AFFECT US, BUT ON THE MARGINS, I THINK IT COULD -- I THINK SHE'S RIGHT.

>> FORGET CONVENTIONS FOR A MOMENT, WHAT ABOUT STUDENTS?

DON'T YOU THINK A STUDENT WHO'S LIVING IN CHICAGO OR LOS ANGELES OR WHEREVER WILL THINK TWICE GOOD GOING TO WASH-U?

>> YES.

>> I THINK SO, AND IT JUST MAKES US SEEM EVEN A LITTLE LESS HIP.

I MEAN, WE'RE NOT IN THE 21st CENTURY, AND WE'RE PROUD OF IT.

AND I THINK THAT IT'S NOT THE MAJOR PROBLEM WE HAVE.

I MEAN, CENTENE, NEIDORFF ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT HARD TO GET PEOPLE TO COME HERE BECAUSE OF CRIME, OUR SCHOOLS IN THE CITY AREN'T VERY GOOD, BUT THIS IS JUST ANOTHER LITTLE STING.

>> I THINK THERE'S A BIGGER PROBLEM FOR A PLACE LIKE NASHVILLE OR AUSTIN.

THEY WERE ON THE UPSURGE AND NOW ALL THE COMPANIES THAT HAVE RELOCATED THERE FROM, SAY, CALIFORNIA, THEY HAVE A LOT OF EXPLAINING TO DO WITH THEIR EMPLOYEES, WITH FUTURE HIRES.

IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY AWKWARD TO SEE HOW THEY -- >> I THINK THAT'S A GREAT POINT, BUT I'LL ADD ONE THING.

RONALD REAGAN, WHATEVER ONE THOUGHT OF HIM, HIS POLITICAL GENIUS WAS, YOU RUN ON ABORTION, YOU DO NOT GOVERN ON IT.

ONE OF HIS MAIN ISSUES IN 1980 WAS A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO BAN ABORTION.

THAT WAS ONE OF HIS BIG ISSUES.

HE BEAT GEORGE H.W.

BUSH IN THE PRIMARY WITH IT AND HAD HIM AS VICE PRESIDENT.

AND HE HAD 3,000 DAYS ALMOST IN OFFICE AND IT NEVER MADE IT TO HIS TO-DO LIST.

HE KNEW BETTER THAN TO ACTUALLY GOVERN.

WHEN IT GETS PERSONAL TO PEOPLE, IF IT'S REALLY ON -- >> WELL, WE'LL FIND OUT.

>> I THINK IT'S A REAL -- >> YOU'RE RIGHT, HE WASN'T SUCCESSFUL, BUT MAYBE HE WANTED TO BE AND WASN'T.

>> NO, HE DIDN'T.

>> MAYBE THE HEIRS TO RONALD REAGAN ARE DOING WHAT HE WANTED TO DO.

>> I DON'T BELIEVE SO.

>> IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY, THE PROSECUTOR, WESLEY BELL HAS SAID THAT HE'S NOT GOING TO PROSECUTE THAT -- ABORTIONS.

SO IF THERE'S -- RIGHT NOW, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO, I GUESS, PROVIDER INDUCE AN ABORTION EXCEPT FOR A MEDICAL EMERGENCY, BUT HE SAID HE'S NOT GOING TO PROSECUTE.

SO IF THAT'S THE CASE AND ABOUT A SIXTH OF THE POPULATION IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI LIVES IN STCT, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, IS ABORTION STILL LEGAL IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY?

>> NO, BUT I THINK IT'S -- NO, IT ISN'T.

>> I MEAN, DE PACK TO IF THERE'S NO -- DE FACTO IF THERE'S NO PROSECUTION.

IT'S LIKE MARIJUANA.

IT'S ILLEGAL, BUT NOBODY ENFORCES.

>> RIGHT NOW, THERE'S THO ABORTION LAWS IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY.

>> THEY HAPPEN IN HOSPITAL.

>> WHAT ABOUT DOCTOR'S OFFICES?

>> LET'S FACE IT.

ABORTION FOR PEOPLE OF MEANS IN PRIVATE DOCTOR'S OFFICES OR PEOPLE CAN GET ON PRIVATE JETS AND GO WHEREVER, SURE, IT'S LEGAL FOR THEM.

THAT'S ONE OF THE GREAT FALLACIES OF THE WHOLE MOVEMENT, I GUESS, IS THAT IT'S NEVER BEEN ABOUT, YOU KNOW, EVERY WOMAN.

IT'S BEEN ABOUT -- CERTAINLY THE POLITICAL CLASS HAS NEVER HAD -- YOU KNOW, IS NOT GOING TO EVER -- WELL -- >> BUT IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH WESLEY BELL'S DECISION?

>> I AM.

WE HAD -- THE POST-DISPATCH HAD AN EDITORIAL SAYING THAT THIS IS, YOU KNOW, NOT UP TO THE PROSECUTORS, AND EVEN THOUGH HE'S RIGHT ON THE MERITS OF THE ISSUE, THIS IS WRONG, AND I DISAGREE WITH THAT.

I THINK THAT THE -- WESLEY BELL IS MAKING THE RIGHT CALL ON THIS.

>> PROSECUTORS ALWAYS HAVE TO USE THEIR DISCRETION.

THEY DON'T HAVE TIME TO PROSECUTE EVERY SINGLE THING THAT ALL OF US ARE OUT THERE DOING BREAKING THE LAW.

>> RIGHT.

>> LOOK AT ST. LOUIS CITY.

THEY HAVEN'T ENFORCED TRAFFIC LAWS THERE FOR YEARS EVEN WHEN YOU SEE SERIOUS THINGS HAPPEN.

I GUARANTEE CIRCUIT ATTORNEY KIM GARDNER IS NOT GOING TO BE PROSECUTING ABORTIONS EITHER.

SHE CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET HER HEAD AROUND THE BASIC PART OF THE JOB, MUCH LESS CAPES LIKE THAT.

>> EVEN IF SHE DID PROSECUTE, SHE WOULDN'T GET A CONVICTION PROBABLY.

>> LET'S GIVE HER A ONE-WEEK BREAK, MAYBE SHE'S COMING OUT WITH THAT.

YOU MENTIONED THEY DON'T ENFORCE TRAFFIC LAWS, I THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM.

I AGREE WITH THE POST-DISPATCH TO SOME EXTENT BECAUSE I'M KIND OF TIRED OF SHERIFFS IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI WHO SAY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO ENFORCE FEDERAL GUN LAWS OR OTHERS WHO SAY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO ENFORCE MARIJUANA LAWS OR IMMIGRATION LAWS, SO ISN'T IT UP THE TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OR THE LEGISLATURE TO CREATE THE LAWS AND THE PROSECUTOR IS SUPPOSED TO PROSECUTE THEM AND THE POLICE ARE SUPPOSED TO ENFORCE THEM?

>> THEN WHY DO WE ELECT POSITIONS LIKE SHERIFF AND D.A.

IF THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A MACHINE FROM APPOINTED PEOPLE ON HIGH.

THIS IS SOMETHING ST. LOUIS COUNTY DOESN'T WANT.

>> DOES THE LIBERAL POST-DISPATCH WANT MAYBE WESLEY BELL TO HAVE INVESTIGATORS GO OUT AND LOOK INTO EVERY MISCARRIAGE WHILE WE'RE AT IT?

BECAUSE THEORETICALLY -- >> I AM ANSWER THAT, RAY.

NO, OF COURSE, THE POST-DISPATCH DOES NOT WANT THAT, THE LIBERAL POST-DISPATCH.

>> THIS IS FAIRLY LIBERAL, THIS ONE.

MY POINT IS, DO YOU THINK THAT WESLEY BELL SHOULD INVESTIGATE MISCARRIAGES AS PART OF THIS?

>> I DO NOT, BUT I THINK THERE'S A TREND NOW WHERE LAWS AREN'T BEING END FORCED ACROSS THE -- DID YOU FEEL GOOD ABOUT THE STATE NOT ENFORCING FEDERAL GUN LAWS?

>> NO, I DON'T, BUT I WILL SAY THIS.

THIS IS DIFFERENT.

LOOK, I'M -- I'VE TRIED TO BE NICE FOR MY 61 YEARS.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE LIKE ME, WHO HAVE DONE EVERYTHING SOCIETY HAS ASKED OF US.

I CANNOT SPEAK FOR OTHER GENDERS OR OTHER RACES, BUT I CAN TELL YOU JUST AS ME, THIS IS TOO FAR.

THIS HAS GONE TOO FAR AND ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO STAND UP AND SAY I AM NOT -- NO, I'M NOT IN.

I SALUTE THEM AND PEOPLE ARE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO SAY THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

>> BILL, WHAT ABOUT THE ABORTION FUN THAT THE MAYOR -- AT LEAST AN ALDERMANIC PANEL IN ST. LOUIS IS ESTABLISHING WITH FEDERAL DOLLARS THAT WILL HELP WOMEN -- NOT PAY FOR ABORTION ITSELF, BUT PROVIDE FOR TRANSPORTATION OR DOULAS OR CHILDCARE, AND THE SAME THING IS HAPPENING IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY.

SAM PAGE, MILLION DOLLARS OF FEDERAL MONEY FROM THE AMERICAN RECOVERY AK HE'S GOING TO USE.

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S A GESTURE IS ALL IT IS.

YOU KNOW, THE MAYOR AND THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE WANT TO SHOW THAT THEY ARE AGAINST WHAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS DONE AND THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN SHOW IT.

I DON'T THINK IT REALLY HAS AN EFFECT.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THAT PEOPLE FROM ST. LOUIS OR ST. LOUIS COUNTY HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME GETTING TO ILLINOIS.

I MEAN, THEY GO TO ILLINOIS TO BUY POT.

IN THE OLD DAYS WHEN YOU COULDN'T BUY LIQUOR HERE ON SUNDAY, I'D SEE A WHOLE BUNCH OF MISSOURI LICENSE PLATES IN THE LIQUOR STORE LOTS WHERE WE'D BE BUYING LIQUOR BECAUSE WE'D RUN OUT ON SATURDAY NIGHT.

SO I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S A REAL NEED TO HELP PEOPLE GET OVER THERE, BUT IT'S A NICE GESTURE AND I APPLAUD THEM.

>> I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY A NEED TO HELP PEOPLE GET OVER THERE, BUT NOT THE CONSTITUENCIES IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY AND ST. LOUIS CITY.

WE HAVE A WOMEN'S DAY IN SPRINGFIELD.

I THINK THE IRONIC THING IS ST. LOUIS IS GOING TO HAVE BETTER ACCESS TO ABORTION THAN MANY OTHER BIG CITIES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW AND THIS IS CERTAINLY GOING TO GIVE US A BLACK EYE THAT WE'RE IN MISSOURI WHERE ABORTION IS BANNED, BUT WE CAN DRIVE 25 MINUTES.

IT'S LIKE GETTING TO THE SUBURBS.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE FLYING INTO ST. LOUIS ON GET THEIR ABORTIONS.

>> THEY ALREADY ARE.

>> THAT'S THE IRONY.

>> I CAN'T SAY THIS AS WELL AS ALVIN JUST -- BUT THERE'S A SENSE, AND I AGREE THAT IT'S MOSTLY A GESTURE, BUT A GOOD ONE, AND IT'S SORT OF LIKE IT'S ON.

THIS IS GETTING PERSONAL NOW BECAUSE THEY CAN TAKE ALL THE POLLS ABOUT ROE V. WADE AND THROW THEM OUT.

IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS ACTUALLY GETTING INTO PEOPLE'S HOUSEHOLDS WHERE THEIR DAUGHTER, THEIR SISTER, THEIR WIFE, WHATEVER, IS AFFECTED BY THIS IN REAL LIFE, YOU CAN THROW ALL THE POLLS OUT.

THERE ARE VERY FEW AMERICANS THAT WANT THEIR GOVERNMENT AT ANY LEVEL IN THEIR WORLD TELLING THEM, MAKING THIS DECISION AND BY BRINGING THIS OUT OF THE THEORETICAL INTO REAL LIFE, I THINK THEY'VE CREATED THEMSELVES A MONSTER.

>> AND TIME TO MAYBE MAKE A LITTLE PROGRAM NOTE THAT YOU AND I AT HALF PAST WILL TALK TO MALLORY SCHWARZ FROM PRO CHOICE NOW, ALONG WITH SAM LEE FROM CAMPAIGN LIFE MISSOURI.

THAT'S ON NEXT UP HALFWAY THROUGH THIS PROGRAM.

SARAH, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT ANOTHER STRANGE THING HAPPEN IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY.

THIS TIME THE CHIEF OF STAFF FOR COUNTY EXECUTIVE SAM PAGE, CAL HARRIS, ONLY ON THE JOB FOR ABOUT SIX MONTHS, HE'S BEEN IN THE NEWS RECENTLY BECAUSE HE HAD EXPIRED LICENSE PLATES, SO THERE'S THAT, BUT NOW APPARENTLY HE WAS PART OF A SEX VIDEO WHICH WAS RECORDED IN THE OFFICES OF COUNTY GOVERNMENT, AND NOW I GUESS THE WOMAN WHO'S ALSO PART OF IT IS SUING HIM OR TAKING SOME SORT OF LEGAL ACTION.

I GUESS THERE'S A QUESTION, OKAY, IF YOU ARE PART OF A SEX TAPE IN AN OFFICE WITH SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH RESPONSIBILITY DO YOU BEAR.

BUT NONETHELESS, DOES IT SEEM TO YOU LIKE ST. LOUIS COUNTY IS DRAWING A LOT OF WEIRDOS AND LOSERS TO ITS EMPLOYMENT ROLLS?

>> I MEAN, EITHER SAM PAGE IS DOING A TERRIBLE JOB HIRING PEOPLE, OR THIS MAN JUST CANNOT CATCH A BREAK.

AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I GOT TO SAY, THIS GUY COMES IN WITH A VERY GOOD RESUME.

YOU KNOW, HE'S ONE OF THESE TRAILING SPOUSES.

HIS WIFE GOT A GREAT JOB WORKING FOR CENTENE.

THEY FOUND HIM A LOCAL JOB.

HE'S A LOCAL GUY, HAS A GOOD TRACK RECORD OF HAVING BEEN A CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST AND A LOBBYIST.

COMES ON AS CHIEF OF STAFF ANDINGS EXPANDING HIS PORTFOLIO.

HE'S ONE OF THREE PEOPLE YOU GO TO TO GET TO SAM PAGE.

THEY END UP MAKING HIM THE ONE GUY.

IT SOUNDS LIKE HE WAS DOING A PRETTY GOOD JOB.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE COULD HAVE FORESEEN THAT HE WAS GOING TO HAVE SEX, ALLEGEDLY, IN AN OFFICE WITH SOMEONE WHO SAID SHE DOES NOT KNOW SHE WAS BEING VIDEOTAPED.

THAT'S A REALLY BAD BREAK.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY WAY YOU CAN VET A PERSON TO SAY WILL YOU DO THIS OR NOT?

I IMAGINE THE ANSWER FOR ALL OF US WOULD BE FOR.

>> WHEN THE BUCK STOPS WITH YOU, AND THOSE WHO HAVE HAD THE BUCK STOP WITH YOU, I AGREE YOU CAN'T -- IT'S NOT HIS FAULT OBVIOUSLY IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE.

IT WASN'T HIS FAULT NECESSARILY IN THE CASE OF THE GUY AT THE JAIL THAT JUST RIPPED OFF -- >> I KIND OF THOUGHT THAT WAS HIS FAULT, BUT -- >> WELL, I MEAN, IT WAS -- THE POINT IS, THE BUCK DOES STOP WITH AN EXECUTIVE.

HIS JOB IS TO RUN THE GOVERNMENT.

I THINK AT THIS POINT, THERE'S REAL QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER HE HAS, FRANKLY, THE CAPABILITIES OR THE BACKGROUND FOR THAT KIND OF ROLE.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE'S A BAD GUY.

HE'S OBVIOUSLY A FINE ANESTHESIOLOGIST, BUT THERE'S A DIFFERENT SKILL SET IN RUNNING A LARGE ORGANIZATION, AND SURE, I THINK HE'S GOT -- IN THE TOTALITY AND I GUESS TO PARAPHRASE, ARE YOU TIRED OF LOSING?

TODAY IT CAME OUT HE LOST THE -- TIM FITCH WON HIS PENSION CASE AGAINST HIM.

HE'S HAD A RUN OF LOSING -- >> BUT IT'S NOT JUST HIM.

IT'S BEEN GOING ON IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY FOR SOME TIME.

>> THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.

>> WE HAD MARK TUCKER, I DON'T KNOW WHO APPOINTED HIM.

>> THAT WAS HIM.

THAT WAS PAGE.

HE WAS PAGE'S MAIN GUY.

>> HOW ABOUT SHEILA SWEENEY.

>> THAT WASN'T PAGE.

>> SHE WAS IN CHARGE OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, BUT HAD NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE.

HOW ABOUT LUA BOOSY AND HE ENDED UP INSPECTING PARKS TWICE A DAY OR THE COUNTY COUNCILMAN WHO LOST HIS JOB AND GOT A JOB IN THE PARKS DEPARTMENT.

NOT TO MENTION AS YOU POINT OUT TONY WEAVER AND OTHERS.

>> WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE.

ALL THE TIME I GREW UP REALLY TILL THE LAST TEN YEARS, IF YOU WENT TO A CITY COUNCIL MEETING, IT WAS YOU AND SOME CRICKETS, AND ST. LOUIS WAS THE SHOW.

AND IT JUST WENT 180.

SO IT'S ALL PART OF IT.

I MEAN, GOLLY, COUNTY, YOU USED TO HAVE -- WHAT IS GOING ON?

>> THE NAMES YOU MENTIONED, STENGER OWNED THOSE.

HE DID OWN THEM AND WHEN YOU'RE THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE, WHETHER YOU'RE MAYOR OR WHATEVER, IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH OF THESE, YOU DO OWN IT.

>> BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK OF SAM PAGE NOT DEBATING JANE DUEKER AND THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE WAS ASKED WHEN WILL HE DEBATE HIS PRIMARY OPPONENT AND HIS STAFF RESPOND, WHEN WILL HELL FREEZE OVER?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD NOT WANT TO DEBATE JANE DUEKER MYSELF.

SHE'S SMART AND SHE'S VICIOUS, BUT I'M NOT RUNNING FOR COUNTY EXECUTIVE, AND I THINK THAT SAM PAGE OWES IT TO THE VOTERS TO GET ON THE STAGE WITH JANE DUEKER AND LET HER BEAT HIM UP FOR A WHILE AND SEE IF HE CAN, YOU KNOW, EXIT WITH ANY DIGNITY LEFT AT ALL.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO DEBATE YOUR OPPONENT.

YOU KNOW, AS SCARED AS HE MUST BE OF JANE DUEKER, I STILL THINK HE OWES IT TO THE VOTER STOP GET UP THERE ON THE STAGE -- TO THE VOTERS TO GET UP THERE ON THE STAGE AND TRY TO DUKE IT OUT WITH JANE DUEKER.

I HOPE THIS DOESN'T OFFEND JANE DUEKER BECAUSE I DON'T READ TWEETS, BUT I HAVE PEOPLE SAY TO ME, WELL, SHE TWEET ABOUT ME.

OH!

WELL, IT'S NOT G IT'S TERRIBLE.

>> I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THIS IS A FIGHT.

IF THIS WERE A FIGHT, IT WOULDN'T LAST -- REMINDS ME OF ONE OF TYSON'S EARLY FIGHTS.

IT WOULD BE OVER IN A HURRY.

JANE DUEKER WOULD JUST CRUSH SAM PAGE IN A DEBATE.

I KIND OF LIKE RICHARD'S STATEMENT ONLY BECAUSE IT WAS SO ODD THAT HE SAID WHEN HELL FREEZES OVER.

IT WAS KIND OF LIKE, AT LEAST HE DISPENSED WITH ANY, ANY, YOU KNOW SUSPENSE, BUT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

HE -- IF HE'S THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE, HE OWES IT TO THE PEOPLE REGARDLESS OF HIS PARTY OR ANYTHING, AND THAT GOES FOR EVERYBODY AT EVERY -- YOU OWE IT TO MAKE YOURSELF ACCESSIBLE WHEN YOU HAVE A SIGNIFICANT OPPONENT, WHICH SHE IS, AND IT'S REALLY, AGAIN, IT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT -- >> AND IT'S NOT JUST -- OF COURSE, YOU SHOULD DEBATE AN OPPONENT.

>> BUT YOU CAN DO IT AT 7:00 A.M. ON A TUESDAY AT THE CHAMPS CITY HALL.

>> AND THEY CAN STILL TWEET ABOUT IT.

>> THEY CAN DO VIDEOS.

IT WOULDN'T BE PRETTY.

>> THIS IS NOT SAM PAGE'S MEDIUM AND I DO HAVE TO GIVE RICHARD TALLO CREDIT HERE, OH, YES, WE'D LIKE TO DEBATE AND THEY'RE NEVER ACTUALLY AVAILABLE.

>> HE CAN COME UP WITH A STRATEGY, THIS IS LIKE YOU SAID, HEY, MIKE TYSON IS GOING TO KNOCK ME OUT, BUT WHAT DO I DO?

YOU GOT TO GET A FEW JABS IN AT HIM AND THAT'S IT, JUST KEEP MOVING.

NO MATTER WHAT SHE SAID.

I'D HAVE THREE ANSWERS, I'D SAY STEVE STENGER AND I'D SAY SHE LIKES POLICE AND CAN YOU SEE SAM PAGE SAYING POLICE, BUT ONE MORE.

THAT WOULD BE IT.

WHATEVER IT WAS, THAT'S ALL I'D SAY.

>> I LIKE THAT, ALVIN.

>> I DO WANT TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT SAM PAGE.

I THINK HE'S AN INTELLIGENT GUY.

I THINK HE'S KIND OF AN INTROVERT AND DOESN'T COME ACROSS AS HIGH ENERGY, AND I DO THINK SOMETIMES IN SOCIETY, WE UNDERVALUE THE INTROVERTS.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU 100%, I DO.

>> THE ISSUE, WE HAVE SO -- WE TEND TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE OUR OPPONENTS SO BAD, THE QUESTION IS DOES HE HAVE THE SKILLS TO BE A COUNTY EXECUTIVE.

BEING AN INTROVERT IS ARGUABLY NOT ONE OF THEM.

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW.

>> I MEAN, REALLY.

>> YOU MAY BE RIGHT.

>> TO BE A PUBLIC FIGURE GSH -- >> SHE WOULD GET TO MAKE AN OPENING STATEMENT AND A CLOSING STATEMENT AND IN THE MIDDLE, CODO WHATEVER -- >> I'M TELLING YOU, THAT'S -- >> WHAT ABOUT MARY MILLER?

OVER THE WEEKEND, SHE WAS BLASTED BY THE MEDIA BECAUSE SHE MISSPOKE.

SHE WAS TRYING TO SAY SHE STOOD UP FOR THE RIGHT TO LIFE AND INSTEAD, SHE SAID SHE WAS STANDING STOUP WHITE LIFE.

BUT SHE SOMETHING GOING FOR HER IN ILLINOIS 15th CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT AND THAT IS THAT DONALD TRUMP ENDORSED HER, SO THEY WHIPPED RODNEY DAYS, THE LONG TIME INCUMBENT, SHE GOT 57% OF THE VOTE.

NOW, DID DONALD TRUMP HELP HER?

DID THAT GAFF HELP HER?

>> I DON'T THINK THIS IS TRUMP.

THAT'S THAT REDRAWN DISTRICT.

THEY PUT A GUY WHO HAD TO PLAY IT VERY DOWN THE MIDDLE BECAUSE HE WAS IN ONE OF THE RARE DISTRICTS THAT COULD GO EITHER WAY.

RODNEY DAVIS TRIES TO WALK THIS TIGHTROPE FOR YEARS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN HE'S THRUST IN A DISTRICT WITH A CRAZY TRUMP LOVER, FARD MY USE OF "CRAZY."

IT WAS HER RACE TO LOSE.

THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT DIDN'T MAKE OR BREAK THAT AND I THINK THE GAFF DIDN'T MAKE OR BREAK THAT.

THAT'S THE KIND OF GAFF THAT MEDIA PEOPLE LOVE, PEOPLE WHO SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ON TWITTER, I'M ONE OF THEM, WE LOVE IT, WE FIND IT HILARIOUS.

I'M SURE SHE MEANT TO SAY RIGHT TO LIFE, BUT I WOULD BELIEVE IF IT SHE HADN'T QUOTED HITLER APPROVINGLY A FEW MONTHS BEFORE.

>> THAT'S WHAT I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY.

SHE IS PART OF A VERY FRIGHTENING GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT ARE HIJACKING YOUR FATHER'S REPUBLICAN PARTY.

RODNEY, I HAVE TO SAY -- >> SHE GOT 57% OF THE VOTE.

>> I GOT IT.

>> SHE DIDN'T HIJACK ANYTHING.

SHE DOESN'T EVEN LIVE IN THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT.

SHE LIVES OUTSIDE OF IT.

>> AND I'VE ALWAYS KNOWN THAT.

>> THERE WAS A TIME WHEN IF A POLITICIAN QUOTED HITLER FAVORABLY IN ANY WAY -- >> IT WAS OVER.

>> -- THAT WON'T END OF THE POLITICIAN, BUT IN TODAY'S REPUBLICAN PARTY, THEY GO, WELL, YOU KNOW -- >> AND I DO THINK TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT HELPED HER.

I AGREE WITH YOU, THE GAFF DIDN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE.

A GAFF WITH HITLER, I AGREE WITH YOU, IT DIDN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE.

TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT MATTERS A LOT IN DARK RED, BRIGHT RED, WHATEVER WORD YOU WANT TO USE, SOLID RED DISTRICTS LIKE THIS.

AND POOR RODNEY DAVIS, BASICALLY SOMEBODY I WOULD DISAGREE WITH MOST OR ALL OF THE TIME, BUT BASICALLY A DECENT GUY.

>> BUT THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT -- >> IT'S WHY SO MANY REPUBLICANS ARE HEADING FOR ARE THE HILLS, THE NORMAL ONES.

>> THIS IS WHAT THE DEMOCRATS IN SPRINGFIELD WANTED.

THEY CREATED THIS DISTRICT WITH WE'LL GET RID OF YOU, RODNEY DAVIS.

IT COULD HAVE WORKED OUT PERFECTLY.

>> THEY GOT RID OF HIM AND HAD -- THAT'S WHY, TRULY.

>> WHETHER IT'S MISSOURI OR ILLINOIS A COMPUTER SHOULD COME UP WITH THE DISTRICTS.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU.

>> LET ME ASK YOU, ALVIN, ABOUT A SAD SITUATION.

13-YEAR-OLD BOY WAS DRIVING A FAMILY AUTOMOBILE, OSTENSIBLY WITHOUT THE PERMISSION OF THE PARENT.

AND HE WAS GOING 80, 90 MILES AN HOUR IN NORTH COUNTY, CRASHED INTO A TREE AND TWO OF HIS PASSENGERS -- ACTUALLY, THREE OF THEM DIED.

TWO WERE 13 AND ONE WAS NINE YEARS OLD.

HE'S BEEN CHARGED WITH MANSLAUGHTER.

DO YOU THINK THAT'S THE END OF THAT?

>> I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE IN THAT AT 13 YEARS OLD, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NOW GO -- WOULD GO TO, YOU KNOW, JUVENILE AND FOUR YEARS FROM NOW, SEE YA.

WE NOT EVER FIND OUT WHAT HIS NAME IS, NOT FOR A WHILE ANYWAY.

I THINK THERE HAS TO BE SOME WAY A PARENT HAS GOT TO BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS.

I KNOW THAT THAT KIND OF VIOLATES A LOT OF TENETS, BUT THERE ARE JUST SOME THINGS THAT LIFE LOSS -- IT'S JUST CAN'T BE ON A 13-YEAR-OLD.

BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT AN ADULT.

AND YOU'RE -- YOUR BRAIN IS NOT WORKING AS AN ADULT.

BUT THERE'S AN ADULT SOMEWHERE THAT SAYS HE SHOULDN'T BE OUT DRIVING A CAR ILLEGALLY AT 1:30 IN THE MORNING.

YOU'RE 13 YEARS OLD.

YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT ANYTIME, SO I THINK THERE'S -- SOCIETY HAS TO FIND A WAY.

>> AND, OF COURSE, THE KIDS THAT WERE WITH HIM, ONE CAN SAY THE SAME THING ABOUT THEIR PARENTS, ALVIN.

>> YES, YEAH.

>> YOU KNOW, THESE WERE EVEN YOUNGER KIDS OUT AT 1:30 AT NIGHT RIDING AROUND.

I MEAN -- >> YEAH, 13-YEAR-OLDS KNOW HOW TO SNEAK OUT OF THE HOUSE AND STEAL MOM AND DAD'S KEYS AND CARS AREN'T LIKE GUNS IN SOME KEY WAYS.

YOU DON'T STORE YOUR CAR KEYS IN A LOCKBOX.

THIS IS A TERRIBLE TRAGEDY.

IT'S JUST AN AWFUL STORY, BUT IT'S HARD TO THINK HOW HOLDING THE PARENTS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS MAKES ANYBODY WHOLE.

>> I HEAR YOU, BUT SOMEBODY THAT IS TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LIFE OTHER THAN THE 13-YEAR-OLD.

I JUST -- I FEEL THAT WAY.

>> I AGREE WITH THE SENTIMENT.

I THINK IT'S -- IT WOULD BE TOUGH, AND I THINK SOME STATES MAY HAVE DIFFERENT HAAS THAN OTHER STAYS ON THIS -- DIFFERENT LAWS THAN OTHER STATES ON THIS.

BEFORE WE CAME O I WAS LOOKING AT IT.

I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT HOW YOU CRAFT A LAW LIKE THIS BECAUSE ESTABLISHING TRUE NEGLIGENCE ON THE PART OF THE PARENTS WOULD BE -- BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES, THERE ARE NOT EVEN TWO PARENTS.

SOMETIMES THERE'S NOT EVEN ONE PARENT RAISING A KID, SO YOU'VE GOT -- IT'S A TRICKY LAW TO WRITE.

I AGREE WITH THE SENTIMENT.

>> AND I AGREE WITH YOU.

HOW YOU GET THERE, I DON'T KNOW.

>> IT WOULD BE A HARD LAW TO WRITE, BUT I AGREE WITH THE SPIRIT.

>> YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE IT, I GREW UP IN SUBURBAN CLEVELAND AND THE KIDS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY WERE DRIVING CARS AT THE AGE OF 12 AND 13 AND THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD WENT THEM.

SO IT'S NOT ALL THAT NEW.

>> WOULD A GRAND JURY HEAR IT AND THEY COULD DECIDE, IS THIS SO BAD THAT WE NOW CHARGE PARENTS?

>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO END ON THAT THOUGHT AS WE GO TO THE MAIL BAG AND SEE WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT ABOUT LAST WEEK'S PROGRAM.

SHERRY WROTE, THANKS, ALVIN, FOR YOUR ON-POINT OBSERVATIONS REGARDING ERIC GREITENS' CAMPAIGN MESSAGES, PAST AND PRESENT.

ANYONE WHO HUNTS PEOPLE WHO DONE SHARE HIS VIEWS, INCLUDING HIS OWN PARTY MEMBERS, IS CLEARLY MISREPRESENTING TRUE LEADERSHIP.

THANK YOU.

A LAST WEEK'S EPISODE, I HEARD AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION ABOUT KANSAS CITY HAVING SURPASSED ST. LOUIS IN TERMS OF HOW ITS REGION FUNCTIONS AND HAS "IT" GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

ONE REASON FOR THAT I BELIEVE IS BECAUSE KANSAS CITY HAS A CITY MANAGER JUST LIKE AUSTIN, DALLAS T OTHER CITIES GROWING AND ATTRACTING NEW BUSINESS.

YOU CAN WRITE US, NINE PBS, 3655 OLIVE STREET, ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 63108, AND THE EMAILS AND WE LOVE THE TWEETS.

#DONNYBROOKSTL.

YOU FIND US WHEREVER YOU FIND YOUR FAVORITE PODCAST AND THAT WOULD BE SPOTIFY, APPLE, GOOGLE PLAY, OR TUNE-IN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SARAH FENSKE SITTING IN FOR WENDY WHO IS BACK NEXT WEEK AT THIS TIME.

DON'T GO AWAY BECAUSE RAY AND I WILL TALK TO TWO SIDES OF THE ABORTION ISSUE ON NEXT UP.

THAT'S NEXT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.