>> ST. LOUIS HAD SPENT A LOT OF YEARS TEARING DOWN BUILDINGS THOUGHT TO HAVE OUTLIVED THEIR USEFULNESS.

THE RIVERFRONT WAS CLEARED IN THE 1930s.

THE MILL CREEK NEIGHBORHOOD IN THE 1950s.

THE MANSIONS OF THE ONCE FABULOUS VANDEVENTER PLACE WERE TORN DOWN FOR THE FEW V.A.

HOSPITAL.

THE MASSIVE MERCHANTS EXCHANGE BUILDING JUST DIDN'T FIT INTO THE PLANS FOR THE NEW DOWNTOWN, AND BULLDOZERS HAD CLEARED WIDE PATHWAYS THROUGH THE CITY TO MAKE WAY FOR THE NEW HIGHWAYS.

LAWS WOULD BE PASSED IN THE MID '60s PROTECTING HISTORIC SITES AND STRUCTURES, BUT BEFORE THAT, IT WAS ONLY THE LOCAL CITIZENS WHO STOOD BETWEEN THE LANDMARKS AND THE BULLDOZERS.

>> THERE WAS SPECIFIC CONCERN OVER INDIVIDUAL HIEARCH PIECES OF ARCHITECTURE.

THE LANDMARK WAS INCORPORATED IN 1959 AND I THINK THAT PARALLELS A LOT OF ACTIVITY THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.

IN CITIES WITH TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF 19th CENTURY HISTORIC RESOURCES THAT WERE BEING BLOWN AWAY.

NOT BUILDING BY BUILDING, BUT A HUGE CLEARANCE PROGRAM.

>> LAFAYETTE SQUARE HAD BEEN ONE OF THOSE AREAS ONCE SLATED FOR LIKELY CLEARANCE AND REPLACEMENT WITH SOMETHING LIKE A HOUSING PROJECT OR A TRUCKING TERMINAL.

BUT RUTH AND A FEW OTHERS COULD SEE BEYOND THE CRIME AND THE OBVIOUS DECAY.

SHE MOVED HER FAMILY HERE IN 1970 INTO A HOUSE THAT COST HER JUST $2700.

>> THE PARTICULAR HOUSE I BOUGHT WAS ABSOLUTELY THE WORST HOUSE THAT COULD BE BOUGHT.

IT WAS JUST CRAWLING.

I COULD PICK UP A PIECE OF WALLPAPER IN THE CORNER AND CLICK, CLICK, CLICK, THE ROACHES WOULD COME SWARMING OUT, SO I WASN'T A VERY NICE THING TO BE DOING, BUT WE ALL PITCHED IN AND GOT BUSY AND DID WHAT WE HAD TO DO.

AND TO GET A REPAIR MAN TO COME INTO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD WAS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE.

THEY COULDN'T COME NEAR US, -- WOULDN'T COME NEAR US, THE PLACE HAD SUCH A TERRIBLE REPUTATION.

THEY DIDN'T WANT THEIR TRUCKS STOLEN, THEIR TOOLS STOLEN, SO THEY WOULD NOT COME.

>> IT WOULD TAKE YEARS TO BRING ABOUT THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND CHANGE ATTITUDES.

NOT JUST OF REPAIRMEN, BUT BANKERS, REAL ESTATE AGENTS, AND CITY HALL POLITICIANS.

THEIR FIRST BIG VICTORY WAS CONVINCING ALDERMAN TOFRT NEIGHBORHOOD DECLARED ST. LOUIS'S FIRST LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.

THE PRESERVATION MOVEMENT HAD BIRTHED AT THE OLD MANSIONS OF FAMOUS FAMILIES.

NOW IT WAS LOOKING AT WHOLE NEIGHBORHOODS, LASALLE PARK, SOULARD, HYDE PARK, THE SHAW NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE WEST END.

WHEN NEW FEDERAL LAWS STARTED GIVING TAX BREAKS FOR SAVING INSTEAD OF TEARING DOWN OLD BUILDINGS, PRESERVATION BECAME GOOD BUSINESS AND ST. LOUIS WAS SOON RECOGNIZED AS THE NATIONAL LEADER.

>> IT IS AN OLD CITY.

A LOIFRT WAS STILL AROUND -- LOT OF IT WAS STILL AROUND, EVEN THOUGH A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF IT HAS BEEN DESTROYED.

A LOT OF IT WAS STILL AROUND.

A LOT OF IT HAD BEEN DOCUMENTED, A LOT OF IT WAS ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER, SO THE COMBINATION OF A WILLING BANK OR TWO, SOME DEVELOPERS WITH IMAGINATION AND CREATIVITY, ALL THAT CAME TOGETHER TO BOOST ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THROUGH HISTORIC PRESERVATION.

SO ST. LOUIS WAS POISED TO BE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF LAWS THAT LOOKED AS IF THEY HAD ALMOST BEEN WRITTEN SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS COMMUNITY.

>> AND THIS IS INDEED NEXT UP.

BILL McCLELLAN, ALVIN REID WITH YOU, AND WE ARE JOINED BY ANDREW WEIL.

HE'S EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE LANDMARKS ASSOCIATION OF ST. LOUIS.

WELCOME, ANDREW.

>> THANK YOU, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> ALL RIGHT.

I'M GOING TO START WITH ME BECAUSE IF YOU WATCH THE SHOW LAST WEEK OR MAYBE SOME IN THE PAST, YOU PROBABLY WANT MY HEAD BECAUSE I WAS NO NOT IN FAVOR OF JUST IMMEDIATELY SAVING CULVER HOUSE, BUT OBVIOUSLY THERE'S SOME PLANS TO MOVE IT OR TRY TO WORK WITH IT, WHICH I SUPPORT.

BUT BE THE FIRST TO TELL ME, ALVIN, YOU'RE WRONG, WE GOT TO SAVE THAT HOUSE.

>> WELL, I DID WATCH THE PROGRAM AND I NOTICED THAT YOU WERE EQUIVOCAL ABOUT IT.

SEEMS LIKE YOU WERE HOLDING YOUR NOSE AND SAYING PERHAPS IT HAD TO GO.

A LOT OF PEOPLE, FRANKLY, AGREE WITH THAT.

THIS IS NOT A SITUATION WHERE ANYBODY WANTS TO HOLD THE ST. LOUIS SYMPHONY HOSTAGE BASED ON THIS HOUSE.

I MEAN, WE -- THE PRESERVATION COMMUNITY, THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH ME, BOARD MEMBERS, REALLY ALL OF THE COMMUNICATION THAT I'VE RECEIVED FROM OUR CONSTITUENTS, WHICH INCIDENTALLY HAS A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF OVERLAP WITH THE ST. LOUIS SYMPHONY CONSTITUENCY, WANTS TO SEE A CONSTRUCTIVE SOLUTION HERE THAT ALLOWS THE SYMPHONY TO HAVE EVERYTHING THAT THEY NEED WITH REGARD TO THEIR PROPERTY AND THEIR EXPANSION AND THEIR RENOVATION PLANS.

REALLY, WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS TIME TO COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION TO THE DESTRUCTION OF THE HOUSE.

NOT NECESSARILY CLAMORING FOR ITS PRESERVATION AT ALL COSTS.

>> STICKING WITH THE CULVER HOUSE, ANDREW, DEVELOPER STEVE SMITH SUGGESTED THAT, HEY, HE COULD GIVE PROPERTY TO THE PRESERVATION COMMUNITY AND THEY COULD MOVE CULVER HOUSE A COUPLE BLOCKS AWAY AND YOU SEEMED LUKEWARM ABOUT THAT AND SAID THAT YOU WERE AFRAID THAT IF IT WERE MOVED, IT WOULD LOSE ITS SENSE OF PLACE.

AND I WAS PUZZLED BY THAT BECAUSE I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, ITS SENSE OF PLACE WOULD HAVE TO DO WITH ALL THE BUILDINGS THAT USED TO BE AROUND IT AND NOW IT'S JUST A SINGLE BUILDING, AND ARE YOU OPPOSED TO MOVING THE BUILDING?

DO YOU THINK THAT THE PRESERVATIONIST COMMUNITY WOULD RAISE THE MONEY TO MOVE IT IF IT CAME TO THAT?

>> I'M NOT OPPOSED TO MOVING THE BUILDING.

THE SENSE OF PLACE ARGUMENT WAS ABOUT THE -- IT BEING REALLY THE SOLE REMAINING CONTEXT, RESIDENTIAL CONTEXT FOR THE ST. LOUIS THEATER BUILDING, NOW KNOWN AS POWELL HALL.

AND THERE'S SO FEW OF THOSE GRAND MANSIONS LEFT THAT EMBODY THE REALLY REMARKABLE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD THAT ONCE SURROUNDED ALL OF THOSE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS AND THEATER BUILDINGS THAT WE KNOW NOW AS GRAND CENTER.

SO NO, FROM A PRESERVATION PERSPECTIVE, MOVING A BUILDING IS ALWAYS AN OPTION OF LAST RESORT BECAUSE YOU DO LOSE WHAT'S KNOWN AS THE SENSE OF PLACE.

THERE'S A CERTAIN FEELING IF YOU KNOW THAT THE BUILDING IS ON ITS ORIGINAL SITE, BUT IF THE MASSIVE IS A BUILDING IN A LANDFILL, THEN A MOVING A BUILDING BECOMES A MUCH BETTER, MUCH MORE REALISTIC SOLUTION.

ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I WAS A LITTLE BIT LUKEWARM ABOUT IT IS A TECHNICAL REASON AND THAT IS THAT NOT ONLY DOES THE BUILDING NEED TO BE MOVED, IT NEEDS TO BE REHABILITAT REHABILITATED TO PRESENT OR FUTURE USE.

IT WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE STATE AND FEDERAL HISTORIC REHABILITATION TAX CREDITS.

HOWEVER, IF IT'S MOVED FROM ITS ORIGINAL LOCATION, THAT FUNDING OPTION GOES OUT THE WINDOW AND THOSE ARE VERY VALUABLE TOOLS FOR PLANNING AND EXECUTING ECONOMIC REDEVELOPMENT OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS LIKE THIS.

SO MOVING THE BUILDING WOULD FORECLOSE THOSE AVENUES OR THOSE, YOU KNOW, FUNDING OPTION.

>> ANDREW, WAS THE -- I GUESS IT WAS PORTFOLIO ART GALLERY, WAS THAT HOUSED IN THAT BUILDING FOR -- I MEAN, SOME YEARS?

MAYBE BACK WHEN I FIRST MOVED BACK IN THE MID '90s, AND IS THERE ANYONE OR ANYTHING IN THE HOUSE NOW OR IS IT EMPTY?

>> YEAH, PORTFOLIO GALLERY WAS THERE.

ROBERT POWELL'S GALLERY WAS THERE, AND ACTUALLY, WHEN I FIRST CAME TO WORK FOR LANDMARKS ASSOCIATION IN 2007, WE HAVE THESE FREE EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS THAT ARE CALLED WHAT ARE BUILDINGS MADE OF, SORT OF AN UMBRELLA, YOU KNOW, UMBRELLA EFFORT, BUT IT WAS -- WE DID OPERATE THE WHAT ARE BUILDINGS MADE OF PROGRAM OUT OF PORTFOLIO GALLERY AT THAT TIME, IN ADDITION TO DOWNTOWN PROGRAMS, AND IT REALLY WAS A REMARKABLE EFFORT WHERE THERE WERE STUDENTS FROM ST. LOUIS COUNTY AND STUDENTS FROM ST. LOUIS CITY WHO WERE COMING TOGETHER IN GRAND CENTER AND LEARNING ABOUT ART AND ARCHITECTURE IN THAT BUILDING.

THAT WAS LESS THAN 20 YEARS AGO.

I ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW WHEN MR. POWELL BEGAN OPERATIONS IN THAT BUILDING, BUT I BELIEVE THAT THE ST. LOUIS SYMPHONY HAS OWNED IT FOR APPROXIMATELY MAYBE FIVE YEARS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT.

>> NO, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

>> JUST DRIVING AROUND THE CITY, ONE GROUP OF BUILDINGS THAT I SEE ALL THE TIME VACANT AND THEY LOOK TO ME LIKE THEY MIGHT BE ARCHITECTURALLY IMPORTANT ARE SCHOOLS.

I MEAN, WE'RE CLOSING SO MANY SCHOOLS AND, YOU KNOW, I SEE THE OLD CITY HOSPITAL WAS MADE INTO APARTMENTS AND CONDOS.

IS ANYTHING BEING DONE ABOUT ALL THE SCHOOLS THAT ARE BEING CLOSED?

>> YEAH, ACTUALLY, I'M WORKING RIGHT NOW AND HAVE WORKED ON MANY REDEVELOPMENTS OF ST. LOUIS CITY PUBLIC SCHOOLS THAT ARE UNFORTUNATELY CONSIDERED EXCESS PROPERTY, AND MANY, MANY OF THEM HAVE BEEN REDEVELOPED, PRIMARILY AS RESIDENTIAL.

SOME INSTITUTIONAL FUNCTIONS, BUT MOSTLY RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS.

THEY ARE VERY WELL SUITED TO THAT.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE A TINY FRACTION OF OUR ORIGINAL SCHOOL POPULATION, AND SO WE DON'T NEED ALL OF THESE MAGNIFICENT SCHOOL BUILDINGS THAT WE ONCE DID.

AND IT'S A MAJOR, YOU KNOW, TOP 10 PRIORITY IN TERMS OF PRESERVATION IN ST. LOUIS, IN MY OWN, AND THE OWN OF MANY OTHERS.

THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT THEY CAN BE REDEVELOPED, THEY HAVE BEEN REDEVELOPED, AND THEY ARE BEING REDEVELOPED.

THE BAD NEWS IS THAT PRIMARILY THE ONES THAT ARE BEING SAVED AND REPURPOSED ARE ONES IN, QUOTE-UNQUOTE, HOT NEIGHBORHOODS WITH FUNCTIONING REAL ESTATE MARKETS, AND THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION THAT IS WE HAVE A LOT OF NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE WE HAVE VERY BROKEN REAL ESTATE MARKETS AND BROKEN HOUSING MARKET, SO THERE'S A DISPARITY BETWEEN WHERE THESE BUILDINGS ARE BEING SAVED AND WHERE THEY'RE NOT BECAUSE IT'S DRIVEN ON THE REAL ESTATE MARKET VALUE.

>> KIND OF ALONG THOSE SAME LINES, LIKE LAFAYETTE SQUARE, THE ONE THING I GUESS IT DID HAVE GOING FOR IT, IT WAS A SQUARE.

ALL THE HOUSES WERE BASICALLY STILL TOGETHER, SO YOU WERE KIND OF RESURRECTING, YOU KNOW, BACK IN THE DAY AN ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT, LIKE ESPECIALLY ON THE CITY'S NORTH SIDE, YOU KNOW, HISTORIC KIND OF BUILDING HERE, NOTHING THERE, AND IT'S KIND OF, YOU KNOW, LIKE A CHECKER BOARD THROUGHOUT.

HOW DO YOU INVENTORY EXACTLY HOW MANY PROPERTIES ARE THERE AND HOW MANY CAN BE SAVED AND HOW DO WE GO ABOUT THIS PROJECT?

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOUR ASSOCIATION IS DOING?

>> YEAH, OUR ORGANIZATION HAS DONE THE VAST MAJORITY OF ARCHITECTURAL SURVEY WORK AND NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATIONS IN ST. LOUIS SINCE THE 1970s, REALLY, WHEN THE PROGRAM GOT STARTED.

TO MY ESTIMATION, IT'S A LITTLE TOUGH TO TELL, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT WE'VE LISTED SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 11- TO 15,000 BUILDINGS IN ST. LOUIS IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER, WHICH IS THE PREREQUISITE FOR MAKING THEM ELIGIBLE FOR HISTORIC REHABILITATION TAX CREDITS AT THE STATE AND FEDERAL LEVEL, WHICH IS A VERY IMPORTANT TOOL.

THERE ARE CERTAINLY EQUIVALENT AREAS REMAINING ON THE NORTH SIDE.

THEY DON'T HAVE -- SOME OF THEM DON'T HAVE THE GREATEST INTEGRITY, BUT THE AREAS AROUND ST. LOUIS PLACE PARK OR HYDE PARK, FOR EXAMPLE, HYDE PARK IN PARTICULAR, I THINK, HAS A LOT OF PARALLELS TO WHAT LAFAYETTE SQUARE WAS LIKE BACK WHEN PEOPLE STARTED REALLY INVESTING THERE.

AND INVESTMENT HAS BEEN HAPPENING IN THOSE AREAS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE PROBLEM IS THIS CONSTANT EROSION.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE LOSS OF POPULATION SINCE, YOU KNOW, THE MIDDLE OF THE 20th CENTURY HAS DISPROPORTIONATELY HIT THE NORTH SIDE OF ST. LOUIS AND VACANCY BREEDS, YOU KNOW, LOSS OF BUILDINGS, DEMOLITION AND FIRES, AND WITHOUT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WHICH WERE PRIMARILY CREATEDED, ALMOST ENTIRELY CREATE BY ALDERMEN USING COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT FUNDS, YOU DON'T HAVE -- AND UNFORTUNATELY, A LOT OF THE NORTH SIDE WARDS HAVE, ONE, NOT TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF THE CREATION OF HISTORIC DISTRICTS WHEN THOSE FUNDS WERE AVAILABLE TO DO SO, AND TWO, HAVE NOT OPTED INTO PRESERVATION REVIEW.

AS A RESULT, THERE'S BEEN A DISPROPORTIONATE EROSION OF INTEGRITY OF ARCHITECTURE ON THE NORTH SIDE AS COMPARED TO THE SOUTH SIDE.

>> YOU KNOW, ANDREW, AS I LOOK DOWNTOWN, WHEN THE EAGLETON FEDERAL COURTHOUSE WAS BUILT, THE CITY MOVED STATE COURT OVER TO THE OLD FEDERAL COURT BUILDING, NOW CALLED THE EAGLETON COURTHOUSE, AND IT LEFT THE OLD CIVIL COURT BUILDING ON MARKET STREET, A BEAUTIFUL OLD BUILDING THAT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THAT HAS TO BE ARCHITECTURALLY SIGNIFICANT, AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NEXT TO CITY HALL AND YET, NOTHING HAS EVER BEEN DONE WITH THAT.

DO YOU EVER HEAR OF PLANS AFOOT TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING WITH THAT ONE?

>> YEAH.

WELL, PLANS HAVE COME AND GONE FOR THAT BUILDING, AND I REMAIN HOPEFUL THAT SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN.

YOU'RE RIGHT, IT IS VERY ARCHITECTURALLY SIGNIFICANT AND IT'S PART OF A LARGER URBAN PLANNING -- EARLY 20th CENTURY URBAN PLANNING EFFORT TO CREATE THIS GRAND MUNICIPAL PLAZA THAT INCLUDED THE SOLDIERS MEMORIAL AND THE COURTS BUILDINGS AROUND CITY HALL AND WHAT'S NOW THE PEABODY OPERA HOUSE, SO THERE IS A CORE OF HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT BUILDINGS SURROUNDING THOSE PARKS THERE.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS REALLY, REALLY ENCOURAGING TO SEE THE INCREDIBLE INVESTMENT THAT MISSOURI AND THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS AND MANY DONORS MADE IN THE SOLDIERS MEMORIAL AND THE LIBRARY IN RECENT YEARS, SO THESE THINGS DON'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT, BUT WE -- PEOPLE HAVE BEEN CHISELING AWAY AT THOSE FANTASTIC BUILDINGS AND REALLY BRINGING THEM BACK TO THEIR INCREDIBLE, YOU KNOW, ORIGINAL GLORY.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WITH ALL THE PLACES AND, LIKE I SAY, OLD HOMES AND OLDER BUILDINGS, CAN A GROUP OF PEOPLE GET TOGETHER AND SAY, LIKE, WE'RE GOING TO RAISE THE MONEY AND WE'RE GOING TO SAVE THIS ONE BUILDING OR THIS ONE HOUSE, OKAY?

NOW, DO THEY -- DO YOU HAVE TO TECHNICALLY ONE -- SOMEBODY INVOLVED HAS TO RESIDE IN IT, OR WHAT IS KIND OF LIKE -- IT JUST SEEMS LIKE TO ME THERE'S KIND OF LIKE A LITTLE GRAY AREA BETWEEN WHAT YOU CAN GET, LIKE IN, YOU KNOW, SUPPORT THROUGH GRANTS AND I GUESS LOANS OR WHATEVER, AND WHO CAN ACTUALLY DO IT.

I MEAN, IN OTHER WORDS, IF I HAVE TO BE THE HOMEOWNER TO FIX THE HOME?

MAYBE THAT'S THE SIMPLEST WAY OF PUTTING IT.

>> WELL, NO.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE -- THE GREATEST INCENTIVE THAT WE HAVE IN ST. LOUIS AND THE INCENTIVE THAT'S LEVERAGED LITERALLY BILLIONS, WITH A "B," OF PRIVATE DOLLARS OF INVESTMENT IN HISTORIC BUILDINGS IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS AND ACROSS THE ENTIRE STATE IS THE STATE HISTORIC REHABILITATION TAX CREDIT.

AND THAT IS A PROGRAM THAT ORIGINATED IN ST. LOUIS, IS USED BROADLY IN ST. LOUIS, AND HAS REALLY ALLOWED TO US SAVE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF BUILDINGS.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT SAVING BUILDINGS.

IT'S ABOUT THE ECONOMIC IMPASKT SAVING THOSE TLKS AND TURNING THE LIGHTS BACK ON AND HAVING JOBS AND MAINTAINING, YOU KNOW, INTERESTING ENVIRONMENTS WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE.

UNIQUE ENVIRONMENTS THAT DEFINE OUR COMMUNITY.

BUT THE SHORT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS, NO, YOU DON'T -- FOR THE STATE CREDIT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE AN OWNER-OCCUPIED PROPERTY.

YOU CAN USE THAT CREDIT AS A DEVELOPER AND SELL IT ON THE OPEN MARKET AND SELL THE PROPERTY.

YOU CAN USE IT AS AN OWNER-OCCUPIED, REHABBING YOUR OWN HOME TO QUALIFY.

>> ANDREW, SPEAKING ABOUT DOING YOUR OWN HOMES, THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN AN ARGUMENT THAT ORGANIC DEVELOPMENT IS BEST.

YOU KNOW, HOUSE BY HOUSE, BLOCK BY BLOCK, THE WAY IT WAS DONE IN SOULARD OR LAFAYETTE SQUARE.

AND OPPOSED TO THAT, YOU HAVE PAUL McKEE, WHO CAME IN WITH THE NORTH SIDE PLAN AND BOUGHT UP CHUNKS OF TERRITORY.

WHAT DID YOU THINK OF PAUL McKEE AND HIS NORTH SIDE REDEVELOPMENT?

>> WELL, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY NORTH SIDE REDEVELOPMENT THAT'S BEEN DRIVEN BY MR. McKEE.

YOU KNOW, HE PROMISED GRAND THINGS AND HAS FOLLOWED THROUGH ON VERY FEW OF THOSE THINGS, AND UNFORTUNATELY, THE PROPERTIES THAT HE PURCHASED FOR THE MOST PART ARE EITHER GONE OR ON THE VERGE OF BECOMING GONE.

YOU KNOW, HE DID BUILD IN -- PROMISED TO REHABILITATE ABOUT 120 PROPERTIES, IF MEMORY SERVES, BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE SAYING, WELL, YOU'RE JUST GOING TO COME IN AND WIPE OUT THE ENTIRE NORTH SIDE THAT YOU PURCHASED AND TURN IT INTO WINGHAVEN, YOU KNOW, 2.0.

AND THAT DIDN'T REALLY APPEAL TO MANY PEOPLE AND HE SAID, WELL, I'LL SWEETEN THE DEAL IN ORDER TO GET MY TIF, AND I'LL PLEDGE TO REHABILITATE THESE MORE THAN 100 PROPERTIES THAT -- >> WELL, ANDREW, DID YOU TRY TO WORK WITH HIM?

I MEAN -- >> WE DID TRY TO WORK WITH HIM, BUT IT WASN'T -- I MEAN, THAT'S A SHOW UNTO ITSELF, BILL, HONESTLY.

>> OKAY.

>> BUT WHEN YOU'VE GOT PROPERTIES LIKE HIS, LIKE THE VALENCIA IMMIGRANT HOMES -- I'M SORRY, THE CLEMENS HOUSE WHICH BURNED A COUPLE YEARS AGO, THAT WAS ONE OF HIS HALLMARKS.

IN FACT, I REMEMBER MAYOR SLAY AND MR. McKEE IN THE FRONT YARD SHAKING HANDS AND TALKING ABOUT HOW GREAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE AND WE'RE GOING TO REDEVELOP THIS BUILDING AND IT SAT THERE UNPROTECTED AND UNSECURED AND IT EVENTUALLY BURNED DOWN.

THAT'S EXEMPLARY OF THE WAY HE TREATED HIS PROPERTIES IN NORTH ST. LOUIS.

SO I DO THINK THAT ORGANIC OR SMALL SCALE DEVELOPMENT RESULTS IN -- HAS THE BEST RESULTS, BUT THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL SMALLER SCALE MULTI-SITE REDEVELOPMENTS LIKE CROWN SQUARE FOR EXAMPLE OR EAST FOX, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT A GROUP LIKE RISE OR COMMUNITY-BASED DEVELOPERS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS TO GO ABOUT THIS.

CERTAINLY I WOULDN'T ENCOURAGE A REPEAT OF THE McKEE MODEL, UNDERSTANDING THE WAY IT'S PLAYED OUT.

>> OKAY.

NOW, I LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY OF KIRKWOOD, OKAY?

AND I KNOW THAT THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY, THERE'S NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE MINE.

WE USED TO BE CALLED BADEN TERRACE AND THERE WAS WON'T FIRST PLACES THAT BLACK -- THIS WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PLACES THAT BLACK PEOPLE COULD BUY A HOME.

MIDDLE CLASS AND TEACHERS AND WORKERS COULD BUY A HOME, AND IT BECAME, WHAT WAS A WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD BECAME LIKE A PREDOMINANTLY BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD, ALL MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES, VERY CALM AND PEACEFUL.

THOSE HOUSES HAVE GOTTEN OLDER NOW.

I LIVE IN ONE.

IT WAS SMALL, IT WAS MY GRANDPARENTS' OLD HOME, THEY BOUGHT IT IN I THINK THE '40s.

IT PAINS ME WHEN ONE AT A TIME THESE GET TAKEN DOWN AND THEY BUILD THE PROVERBIAL MINI-MANSIONS.

ON THE SCALE OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE CITY, IT MAY SEEM IRRELEVANT, BUT DO YOU THINK THAT THE LANDMARKS ASSOCIATION CAN KIND OF USE THAT FEELING THAT PEOPLE LIKE ME HAVE TO KIND OF WIDESPREAD, JUST GET BEHIND -- WE NEED TO JUST THINK MORE ABOUT THE HISTORY AND WHAT WENT ON GOOD IN THESE NEIGHBORHOODS AND IN THESE HOUSES.

>> WELL, I THINK THERE IS BROAD-BASED UNDERSTANDING THAT OUR HISTORY IS IMPORTANT AND THAT OUR ARCHITECTURE DEFINES US AS A COMMUNITY, AND THAT IT'S AN ECONOMIC AND CULTURAL ASSET THAT SHOULD BE NOT NECESSARILY PRESERVED AT ALL COSTS, AND THAT'S HONESTLY SOMETHING THAT LANDMARKS ASSOCIATION IS FREQUENTLY ACCUSED OF SAYING, THAT JUST BECAUSE IT'S OLD, IT'S SUPERIOR OR IT HAS TO BE PRESERVED AT ALL COSTS JUST BECAUSE IT'S OLD.

IT'S NOT.

IT'S ABOUT MAKING INTELLIGENT DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT -- HOW WE WANT OUR COMMUNITY TO LOOK AND HOW WE WANT IT TO DEVELOP.

AND FREQUENTLY THESE OLDER NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE ADVANTAGES IN TERMS OF WALKABILITY, IN TERMS OF MIXED USES WHERE YOU CAN HAVE LIVE-WORK-WORSHIP-EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES ALL EMBEDDED IN THE SAME MATRIX AS OPPOSED TO, YOU KNOW, THESE BLANKET DEVELOPMENTS THAT POP UP IN CORNFIELDS.

BUT IT'S REALLY ABOUT CHOOSING WHAT WE WANT TO LOOK LIKE AS A COMMUNITY, AND THERE'S A PLACE FOR THE NEW AND THERE'S A PLACE FOR THE OLD.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, OR PERHAPS FORTUNATELY TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, THERE'S PLENTY OF OPEN SPACE IN ST. LOUIS CITY AND IN OLDER SUBURBS FOR THE NEW AND THE OLD TO CO -EXIST, BUT CO-EXIST IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR AND NOT BLANKET REPLACEMENT ONE WITH THE OTHER.

I'M SORRY, DOES THAT ANSWER THE QUESTION?

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.

>> IN GENERAL, HOW ARE WE DOING?

LIKE IN THE LITTLE FILM WE HAD BEFORE YOU CAME ON, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE HISTORIC TAX CREDIT REINVESTMENT, AND BY THE MID '80s, WE WERE LEADING THE COUNTRY IN IT, WHICH MADE ME THINK, HEY, MAYBE WE'RE A SUCCESS STORY HERE IN ST. LOUIS.

ARE WE OR HAVE WE LOST MOMENTUM?

WHERE ARE WE GENERALLY, WOULD YOU SAY?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S A MIXED BAG AND IT'S A MIXED BAG THAT PLAYS ITSELF OUT IN SO MANY OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH AS A COMMUNITY.

SOME AREAS OF THE COMMUNITY ARE -- I'M TALKING ABOUT IN THIS CASE HISTORIC AREAS, OLDER AREAS OF ST. LOUIS CITY.

MANY AREAS ARE BOOMING, ABSOLUTELY BOOMING, TONS OF INVESTMENT, PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, CAN'T BUY THESE HOUSES ON ANYMORE AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THE REDEVELOPMENT OF HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS IS SPREADING OUT AND MOVING INTO OTHER AREAS THAT WERE MARGINAL, SAY, 5, 10, 15 YEARS AGO.

BUT IT IS A DISPROPORTIONATE SITUATION AND AS SO MANY THINGS ARE, THERE IS A PRETTY STARK DISCREPANCY BETWEEN THE EXTENT TO WHICH THE CENTRAL CORRIDOR AND THE NEAR SOUTH SIDE AND THE FAR SOUTH SIDE AND THE NORTH SIDE ARE BENEFITING FROM REINVESTMENT AND FROM TAKING ADVANTAGE OF A LOT OF THE INCENTIVES THAT ARE ACTUALLY OUT THERE.

AS I SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S A PROBLEM THAT PLAGUES -- HAS PLAGUED US FOR 70 YEARS AND UNFORTUNATELY WILL PRESUMABLY CONTINUE TO PLAGUE US FOR YEARS TO COME, AND THAT'S THIS PROBLEM OF VACANCY AND THE FACT THAT THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS HAS LOST MORE THAN HALF A MILLION PEOPLE OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST -- USED TO BE 50 YEARS WHEN I FIRST STARTED TALKING ABOUT THIS AND NOW IT'S GETTING CLOSER TO 70.

BUT THAT MEANS THAT THERE ARE BUILDINGS AND HOMES AND FORMER BUSINESSES THAT DON'T HAVE PEOPLE.

THEY DON'T HAVE PEOPLE FOR THEM.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T HAVE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO BE IN THOSE BUILDINGS, YOU DON'T HAVE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO INVEST IN THOSE BUILDINGS, YOU DON'T HAVE THE POPULATION THERE BECAUSE THEY'RE IN ST. CHARLES AND JEFFERSON COUNTY AND SURROUNDING ST. LOUIS COUNTY AND THE METRO EAST, THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GONNA LOSE BUILDINGS.

IT'S JUST GOING TO HAPPEN AND IT'S REALLY UNFORTUNATE.

THE WAY THAT THE PLANNING DECISIONS OR, FRANKLY, THE LACK OF INTELLIGENT PLANNING DECISIONS THAT DEFINE ST. LOUIS CITY IN PARTICULAR IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 20th CENTURY ARE STILL WREAKING HAVOC ON SO MANY ASPECTS OF OUR LIVES TODAY, OUR COMMUNITY LIFE AND OUR ECONOMIC LIFE.

>> BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, ANDREW, TELL US HOW WE CAN SUPPORT THE LANDMARKS ASSOCIATION OF ST. LOUIS, JOIN THE LANDMARKS ASSOCIATION OF ST. LOUIS.

WEBSITE, PHONE NUMBERS, JUST SHARE THAT WITH US.

>> SURE.

THANK YOU.

EAR LANDMARKS-STL.ORG.

WE'VE BEEN AROUND SINCE 1959 AS CAROLYN MENTIONED IN THAT ORIGINAL VIDEO.

WE'RE A SMALL ON, BUT WE'RE AN EFFECTIVE ORGANIZATION.

WE CARE -- IT'S A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT CARE VERY, VERY DEEPLY ABOUT MAKING GOOD PLANNING DECISIONS IN ST. LOUIS AND RESPECTING OUR HISTORIC ARCHITECTURE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ANDREW WEIL, THE LANDMARKS ASSOCIATION OF ST. LOUIS.

THANK YOU!

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