>>> THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF NEXT UP.

WE'LL BE INTERVIEWING DONNELL WALTERS, AN ORGANIZATION OF 250 POLICE OFFICERS MOST OF WHOM ARE AFRICAN-AMERICAN, NOT ALL.

SERGEANT WALTERS, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> YOU MADE NEWS, YOU ANNOUNCED, NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT YOUR ORGANIZATION WAS IN FAVOR OF THE STATE TAKING OVER LOCAL CONTROL OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

SINCE 2013, IT'S BEEN IN THE HANDS OF THE CITY.

FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS BEFORE THAT, IT WAS GOVERNED BY THE STATE.

YOU WANT JEFFERSON CITY TO ONCE AGAIN BE IN CONTROL OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

>> IT'S MAINLY ABOUT MANAGEMENT.

WE LOOK AT ORGANIZATIONS AND COMPANIES AND WHEN THERE SEEMS TO BE A FAILURE IN CERTAIN PRACTICES, AND LET ME FIRST SAY, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR GOVERNMENT, LOCAL GOVERNMENT ADMINISTRATION.

THE ORGANIZATION WAS NOT IN FAVOR OF IT WHEN IT INITIALLY WAS PUT ON THE BALLOT.

AND SINCE THEN, THERE'S BEEN SOME THINGS REALLOCATION OF FUNDS TO THINGS INSTEAD OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

AND IN ORDER FOR US TO BE BETTER, WE HAVE TO BE BETTER TRAINED.

THE WAY, IS IF WE HAVE THE FUNDS TO TRAIN.

INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN INVOLVED IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, BUT ONLY LOOKED AT LAW ENFORCEMENT FROM THE OUTSIDE, THEY HAVE THIS IDEA THAT IT CAN CHANGE.

AND THE WAYS TO CHANGE IT IS SAYING, OH, WE CAN DO THESE THINGS OR THAT THING.

THOSE DIFFERENT THINGS.

WE'RE ALL MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACK.

ALL THE TIME.

WE LOOK AT THE FOOTBALL GAME, THE FIRST THING WE SAYS, WHY DID HE THROW THAT PASS.

WE'VE NEVER PLAYED THE GAME ON THAT LEVEL.

>> THE LAST MAYOR FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT WAS HARMEN.

WHY NOW?

WHY THIS MAYOR AND ADMINISTRATION?

>> IT HAS BEEN WHEN WE HAD MAYOR SLATE, WAS IN OFFICE, IT WAS A PUSH TO GO BACK UNDER STATE CONTROL.

AND AGAIN, IT'S JUST PRIMARILY ABOUT THE MANAGEMENT OF THE THINGS.

THE POLICE BOARD WAS PUT IN PLACE, WE HEARD RUMORS THE BOARD WAS CORRUPT.

AND I STRONGLY DISAGREE.

I'VE BEEN ON THE DEPARTMENT FOR 20 YEARS.

I'VE BEEN ON THE POLICE BOARD.

ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS WAS FORMER JUDGE TURNER, WHO IS NOW THE CHAIR FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION.

VERY RESPECTED.

HIGHLY RESPECTED INDIVIDUAL TO THIS DAY.

AND TO SAY THE POLICE BOARD WAS CORRUPT, AND HAVE SOMEONE AS PRISTINE AS HER SIT ON THE BOARD IS AN INSULT.

>> YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU WERE AGAINST IT WHEN IT WENT ON THE BALLOT.

BUT THE PEOPLE OF ST. LOUIS VOTED TO DO THIS.

DOESN'T IT FLY IN THE FACE OF WHAT THEY WANT FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT?

>> IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS OF HOW MANY CITY VOTER ACTUALLY VOTE FOR IT?

IT WAS MORE ST. LOUIS COUNTY VOTERS THAT VOTED FOR LOCAL CONTROL.

AND A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO NOW SINCE I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE DIFFERENT THINGS IN POLITICS, IT WAS LOBBIED HARDER OUTSIDE OF THE CITY THAN IN THE CITY.

>> IT WAS ON THE BOTTLE IN 2012 -- BALLOT IN 2012.

WHERE WAS THAT STATEMENT AT?

I DON'T RECALL.

I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE MAYOR FOR A LONG TIME.

UNTIL YOU MADE YOUR PRESS CONFERENCE, THIS WAS THE FIRST I HAD HEARD YOUR ORGANIZATION FELT THAT WAY.

>> AND IT HAS BEEN, I'VE EVEN HAD, WE HAVE A PR PERSON.

SHE DUG DEEP AND FOUND THINGS WE DID SAY, WIRPN'T -- WE WEREN'T ALL ON BOARD FOR THIS LOCAL CONTROL DEAL.

IT'S NOT AN ATTACK ON THE CURRENT MAYOR.

IT'S NOT AN ATTACK.

WE ENDORSE THE MAYOR.

MY ORGANIZATION ENDORSED THE MAYOR.

IT'S NEVER AN ATTACK ON THIS ADMINISTRATION AS IT'S PUT OUT TO BE.

IT'S THE FACT THAT MY MEMBERS AND I HAVE MORE THAN POLICE OFFICERS, I HAVE PARK RANGERS, DISPATCHERS, AND I HAVE CIVILIAN EMPLOYEES.

AND THE EMPLOYEES DO ONE HECK OF A JOB WORKING WITHIN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

AND THEY ALL SAID, HEY, THIS IS NOT WORKING FOR US.

>> ARE SOME OF YOUR CONCERNS WHEN SHE FIRST BECAME MAYOR, JONES DECIDED NOT TO FILL THE UNFILLED POLICE POSITIONS, AND WANTED TO REDIRECT THAT MONEY TO SOCIAL SERVICES?

>> I'M FOR SOCIAL SERVICES, I GREW UP IN THE CITY.

I UNDERSTAND THE NEED FOR SOCIAL SERVICES.

BUT WHEN THAT MOVED TO NOT TRYING TO FILL THE POSITIONS, THAT LEADS TO CAN SHE.

WE -- YOU INTERACT WITH THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE LIVING BEHIND BOARDED UP, AND THEY WANT YOU TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

THOSE ARE THE INDIVIDUALS I LISTEN TO.

>> OKAY.

BACK TO YOUR DECISION, SOME OF THE FOLKS YOU'RE WANTING TO DO THIS, THIS IS THE ONLY THING I'VE HEARD THEM SAY ABOUT ST. LOUIS.

THEY'RE ANTIST.

LOUIS.

ANTIMAYOR AND ANTIEVERYTHING.

CITY HERE AND KANSAS CITY.

NOT THAT WEIGHS IN OUR DECISION, BUT IT'S THE OPTICS OF THAT.

>> WE TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS.

>> SAW IT OTHER WAY.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ALWAYS APPEASE EVERYONE.

AND AGAIN, I SPEAK FOR AN ORGANIZATION OF PEOPLE, THAT FELT LIKE HEY, IF IT WAS JUST ONE RACE OVER ANOTHER, I GET IT.

WE'RE AFFECTED AS WELL.

OFFICERS, AND OUR CIVILIAN EMPLOYEES AND PARK RANGERS.

>> I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT RACE.

POLITICS.

THE BILLS THAT ARE PASSED IN JEFFERSON CITY ARE KIND OF HEAD SCRATCHERS THIS WAY.

GUNS, OTHER ISSUES, AND IF SOMEONE WAS TO SAY, YOU'RE CITING WITH THAT CONSERVATIVE LOBBY, WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

>> I'M NOT SIDING WITH ANYONE.

>> THEY'RE THERE TO -- WHEN THE BILLS WERE CREATED, WE HAVE STATE REPS, WE HAVE OTHER SENATORS TO WRITE LETTERS TO.

HOW MANY OF THE SENATORS KNOW ABOUT THOSE THINGS.

HOW MANY ARE REALLY INVOLVED IN THE POLITICS.

PRIOR TO THIS MOVE FOR STATE CONTROL, HONESTLY, I NEVER PAID ATTENTION TO POLITICS.

NEVER PAID ATTENTION TO AMENDMENTS AND THOSE THINGS.

NOW THAT I'M SEEING HOW IT WORKS, WHETHER IT SUCCEEDS OR FAILS, I'LL STILL BE INVOLVED.

>> LET ME ASK YOU OF COMMENTS BY THIS MORNING'S STL TODAY.

SHE SAID, THE PROGRESSIVES WON, MANY OF THEM IN TUESDAY'S ELECTION.

SHE SAID, NOW, THIS IS NOW MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER.

THE PROGRESSIVES ARE IN CITY HALL, WE HAVE TO HAVE STATE TAKE OVER OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

BUT IF THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN BY ELECTING THOSE PROGRESSIVES, WOULDN'T LOCAL CONTROL BE WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT?

>> LET'S LOOK AT 18% OF ST. LOUIS VOTED.

>> WE HAVE VOTERS THAT DON'T VOTE.

WHY SHOULD I VOTE?

A LOT OF ELECTED OFFICIALS ONLY COME OUT WHEN IT'S TIME TO VOTE.

THEY ONLY HANG THINGS ON DOORS WHEN IT'S TIME TO VOTE.

18% OF THE CITY VOTED.

>> YOU CAN'T VOID THE 18%.

YOU'RE SAYING THE 18% WHO DID VOTE, DIDN'T COUNT.

>> I'M NOT VOIDING THEM.

NOT VOIDING ANYTHING.

THE ELECTION PROCESS IS THE ELECTION PROCESS.

>> EXCEPT THE 2012 VOTE BY THE STATE.

>> AGAIN, NOT A VOID.

BUT IF SOMETHING IS NOT GOING RIGHT, IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, IF I WAS TO -- AN INDIVIDUAL FELT A JUDGMENT BY WAS NOT -- THEY APPEAL.

IF THEY DON'T FEEL THAT WAS, THEY GO TO THE SUPREME COURT.

THERE THE SUPREME COURT MAKES A JUDGEMENT.

THE LOWER COURTS WERE CORRECT.

THIS IS JUST AN APPEAL.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT A MREKSS PROTECTION OF THE PROFESSION, BUT THE PROTECTION OF THE PEOPLE IN THE PROFESSION.

POLICE OFFICERS, TRAFFIC OFFICERS, HE STATED SHOULD DO TRAFFIC STOPS WITHOUT GUNS.

>> THAT'S THE NEWLY ELECTED MICHAEL BROWN.

>> IMAGINE, THE TRAGIC DAY WE HAVE AN ACTIVE SHOOTER INSIDE A SCHOOL BUILDING, AND YOU HAVE AN OFFICER OUT FRONT WITH NO GUN, THAT RESPONSE TIME WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT.

WE'VE HAD MORE INDIVIDUALS KILLED IN THE LINE DUTY IN A TRAFFIC STOP.

INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE MISJUDGED AND DONE CERTAIN THINGS, THAT'S THE INDIVIDUAL.

BUT IT'S NOT THEIR ENTIRE PROFESSION.

>> YOU'RE AGAINST THE PROPOSAL TO DISARM OFFICERS IN TRAFFIC -- >> VERY MUCH SO.

>> AND I THINK I SAID ON THE SHOW, IF WE ASKED HIM TODAY, ARE YOU STILL STANDING WITH THAT, MY GUESS IS HE'S NOT.

THE PEOPLE VOTED PROGRESSIVE, WHATEVER, YOU'RE REPRESENTING THE -- >> I CAN'T SPEAK FOR EVERY ORGANIZATIONS.

>> WE HAVE CLIPPERS AND COPS, THE COMMUNITY COMES IN AND TALKS TO US.

THE INDIVIDUALS THAT I'VE TALKED TO, AND AS A POLICE OFFICER IN NORTH ST. LOUIS , THE RESIDENTS HAVE AN I'VE TALKED TO, THOSE INDIVIDUALS HAVE GIVEN ME INSIGHT.

>> IS THERE STILL A NEED FOR THE ORGANIZATION.

>> THAT'S ALMOST LIKE ASKING IF THERE'S A NEED FOR THE NAACP.

OR ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION.

THERE'S ALWAYS DIFFERENCES.

WE LOOK AT WHAT'S IN JEFFERSON CITY, IT'S WORKING ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

THE ORGANIZATION HAS A HISTORY.

BUT A LOT WAS DUE TO POSSIBLY SOME INDIVIDUALS.

AND SOME PEOPLE FELT LIKE THE SOCIETY OF POLICE HAVE RADICAL INDIVIDUALS.

AGAIN, BUT THAT WAS THE PAST, AND THIS IS NOW.

I AM NOT DOING ANY OF THIS FOR PRESS, I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING LIKE THIS TO SAY, I'M AGAINST CERTAIN GROUPS OF PEOPLE.

IT IS BECAUSE, THE DUE PAYING MEMBERS OF THE ORGANIZATION FELT LIKE SOMETHING NEEDED TO BE DONE.

AND AS A PRESIDENT, IT'S MY JOB TO FIND A SOLUTION TO WHAT THEY FEEL IS A PROBLEM.

>> LET ME ASK, WORKING IN THE CITY WHERE THE PAY FOR A FIRST YEAR OFFICER HAS GONE UP, BUT IN CLAYTON, IT'S 68,000 FOR THE FIRST YEAR.

AND SOME ARE HIGHER THAN THAT.

AND CINCINNATI, COLUMBUS -- WHY WOULD THEY START THEIR CAREER AT 54?

THE MUNICIPALS ARE TRYING TO HIRE.

>> THE PROFESSIONAL HISTORY OF ST. LOUIS METRO POLICE DEPARTMENT, I STARTED IN THE DEPARTMENT 20 YEARS AGO, WAY BELOW THAT.

BUT AS I -- I TELL THE STORY, I CAME ON THIS JOB LIKING THIS JOB TO LOVING THIS JOB.

IT'S DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER AREAS.

YOU'RE WORKING WITH PEOPLE.

IT'S A DIFFERENT FEELING WHEN I'M IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS.

AND YOU GET ONE OF THE LADIES JUST SAYING, HEY, I'M GLAD YOU'RE IN MY BLOCK TODAY.

THAT'S A DIFFERENT FEELING.

THIS IS THE REASON WHY I'VE STAYED 20 YEARS.

I ENJOY MY JOB, I ENJOY THIS CITY.

>> ARE YOU STILL A STREET COP?

>> YES, I'M A SERGEANT IN THE SIXTH DISTRICT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

DOING YOUR JOB EVERY DAY, DO YOU QUALIFY TO NOT LIVE IN THE CITY?

>> YES.

>> DO YOU LIVE IN THE CITY?

>> YES.

>> I KNEW THE ANSWER TO THAT.

I HAD TO -- YEAH.

YOU CHOOSE TO LIVE IN THE CITY.

AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO.

>> YES.

>> THAT'S NOBLE.

>> I GREW UP NOT TOO FAR FROM YEAR.

>> THE NEW RULE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO TAKE HOME THE POLICE CAR.

NOW, OFFICERS IN THE CITY WILL TAKE THE POLICE CAR HOME, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE PROGRAMS AND INCENTIVES THEY'RE PUTTING OUT THERE FOR RETENTION.

>> THAT'S A NICE BENEFIT, THE POLICE OFFICER WON'T HAVE TO BUY A FAMILY CAR.

>> A BENEFIT FOR THE OFFICER TO AND FROM WORK.

IT'S A BENEFIT FOR STERN NEIGHBORHOODS.

I HAVE A NEIGHBOR DOWN THE STREET, HIS NAME -- HE PUTS ST. MICHAEL'S CARDS, IT GIVES A DIFFERENT SENSE OF SECURITY.

DO THEY KNOW THERE'S A POLICE OFFICER LIVING THERE WITH HIM.

I'VE ALWAYS BEEN A CITY DWELLER, AND THAT AND I DON'T LIKE DRIVING LONG DISTANCES.

>> YOU POLICE CHIEF?

BEEN ON THE JOB 3 MONTHS NOW?

HAVE YOU MET HIM?

WHAT ARE YOUR IMPRESSIONS?

>> I'VE MET HIM.

WE'VE HAD SHORT CONVERSATIONS, NOT REALLY GOT IN THE BUSINESS ASPECT OF IT.

IT'S DIFFERENT, IT'S DIFFERENT WHEN FORMER CHIEFS HAVE COME UP THROUGH THE RANKS, THEY UNDERSTAND THE RANK AND FIRE.

SOMEONE COMING IN, IT'S LIKE WHEN ANHEUSER-BUSCH GOT THE NEW CEO.

SO, IT IS OUR NEW CHIEF IS PRETTY MUCH WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE LEARNING THE NEW UPPER RANK.

>> WHAT TO YOU MAKE OF THE HOMICIDE?

AS OF THIS WEEK, THERE'S 35 IN THE CITY, RECORDED FOR THE FIRST THREE MONTHS OF 2023.

IT'S 35 TOO MANY.

IT'S BETTER THAN LAST YEAR.

>> WE GOT A NEW CHIEF.

THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO KNOW, IF THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO COMMIT A CRIME, IT'LL TRY TO GET COMMITTED.

WHEN IT COMES TO THE HOMICIDE RATES, OPPORTUNITY, MOTIVE, DESIRE.

>> GUN LAWS.

>> GUN LAWS, BUT AGAIN, WITH THE GUN LAWS, EVEN WITH THE GUN LAWS BEING IN PLACE.

THEY BREAK INTO PEOPLE'S HOMES.

MANY MOONS AGO -- SO, THE KIDS BROKE INTO AND LUCKILY THE PARENT SAID SOMETHING ABOUT IT, AND WE WERE ABLE TO DO THE INVESTIGATION FOUND THAT THIS INDIVIDUAL WAS PART OF THE ORGANIZATION, AND WAS STORYING GUNS.

-- STORING GUNS.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE GUN ENTHUSIASTS.

AND THEY HAVE THEM IN THE HOME.

THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THE GUNS COME FROM.

PEOPLE LEAVE THE GUNS IN THE CARS.

>> IS THAT A CRIME?

>> IT'S LIKE A CITY ORDINANCE VIOLATION.

THAT YOU LEFT A GUN UNSECURED.

SOMETIMES IT'S PUTTING THE RESPONSIBILITY ON THE GUN OWNER.

IT'S AGAIN THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMMIT THE CRIME.

>> WE WERE TALKING EARLIER ABOUT TRAFFIC.

APPROXIMATE.

>> HONESTLY, TRULY, THERE'S NO CRIME PREVENTION PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY, IF NOT THE WORLD THAT'S IRONCLAD.

IF IT WAS, GUESS WHAT?

WE WOULD BE FOLLOWING.

IT'S ABOUT CRIME DETERRENTS.

WHEN YOU HAVE A FORCE, AND I DON'T WANT TO USE THE WORD FORCE.

YOU HAVE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE THERE TO ENSURE LAWS ARE NOT BROKEN, INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE MOTIVATED TO BREAK THE LAW.

WILL GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

ARE WE MOVING CRIME, UNFORTUNATELY YES.

BUT DEPENDING ON IF YOU COVER THE CORNERS OR THE AREAS THAT'S LIKELY HAVE CRIME.

CRIME MOVES OUT.

>> LITERALLY, I'M ENJOYING THIS DISCUSSION SO MUCH.

WE HAVE TWO MINUTES LEFT IN THE SHOW.

YOUR THOUGHTSES ON THE ATTORNEY, GARDNER.

>> I HAVE NOT SAID ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT OUR CIRCUIT ATTORNEY.

THAT'S A DIFFERENT FIGHT.

THAT'S NOT A FIGHT THAT ETHICAL HAS DECIDED TO GET INVOLVED IN.

I'M A POLICE OFFICER, MY JOB IS TO CATCH INDIVIDUALS, AS WELL AS ALL THE OTHER POLICE OFFICERS THEY FEEL LIKE, I CAUGHT THIS INDIVIDUAL, I DIDN'T GOT A GUN OR DRUGS, THIS PERSON SHOULD GO TO JAIL.

THAT'S THE THOUGHT PROCESS AS POLICE OFFICERS.

>> HAVE I GOT -- ON HER CASE, OUR OFFICE, NO.

BUT IT'S BEEN SAID THAT -- TO BE FLIP-FLOPPING, MISGUIDED IN THESE THINGS, IT'S ONLY BECAUSE WE'RE STANDING FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

>> ON THIS PROGRAM, JUST BEFORE SHE RETIRED, SHE HAD MIXED THINGS THAT SAY.

>> I'VE NOT HAD TO TAKE ANY CASES.

WHEN I WAS ON THE STREET AND DOING THE POLICE WORK, WE HAD JENNIFER JOYCE HAYES.

AND MOSTLY ALL OF MY CASES WERE ISSUED.

I HAD MORE CASES IN FEDERAL COURT THAN IN STATE COURT.

AT THE TIME, THE LEVEL OF ENFORCEMENT WAS ON A HIGHER LEVEL OF CRIMINALS.

OUR OFFICERS DEAL WITH CRIMINALS ON MANY LEVELS.

THE SWAT TEAM, YOU'RE DISTRICTED TO GO AND SEEK OUT CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS.

I DON'T WANT TO SAY CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS, BUT CERTAIN ELEMENTS OF CRIME.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE FEDERAL ASPECT OF IT.

>> RIGHT NOW IT'S HARD TO SAY.

I'VE NOT HEARD MAJOR COMPLAINTS.

WE HAVE OFFICERS THAT ARE ATTACHED TO DA, FBI.

I CAN'T ANSWER THAT.

>> WE HAVE TEN SECONDS TO GO, DO YOU THINK THAT LEGISLATION WILL BE PASSED, SIGNED BY THE FOREVER THAT'LL TAKE CONTROL OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OUT OF THE HANDS OF THE MAYOR?

>> OH, NO.

I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S A PROCESS, AND ALL I CAN DO IS WAIT FOR THE PROCESS TO GO THROUGH.

>> SERGEANT DONNELL WALTERS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US FROM THE ETHICAL SOCIETY OF POLICE.

THANK YOU EVERYONE, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.