>> HEY, AND WELCOME TO NEXT UP.

WENDY WIESE, ALVIN REID.

WE'RE JOINED BY BOB CLARK, FOUNDER OF CLAYCO.

HE'S OUT IN COLORADO AND LOOKS LIKE A BEAUTIFUL KIND OF CABIN SCENE, AND IT'S PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT COOLER OUT THERE THAN IT IS IN ST. LOUIS ON THIS HOT JULY NIGHT.

>> YES, IT'S VERY NICE HERE.

THE LOG CABIN IS ACTUALLY FROM MARY COUNTY, MISSOURI.

I DISASSEMBLED IT AND BROUGHT IT UP HERE AND MY DAD WAS BORN IN A LOG CABIN, SO IT'S KIND OF A NOSTALGIC THING FOR ME TO BE IN IT.

>> WELL, COOL.

ALL RIGHT.

WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S COOLER THERE, BUT BOB, LAST TIME YOU WERE A GUEST ON THE SHOW, YOU WERE KIND OF FIRED UP ABOUT ST. LOUIS AND WHERE WE WERE HEADED IN THE FUTURE.

IT'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT SINCE THEN.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS, AND WE'LL GET INTO SOME SPECIFICS AS WE GO ALONG, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS AND WHERE ST. LOUIS IS NOW AS OPPOSED TO -- I GUESS IT'S MAYBE BEEN WITH A YEAR.

IT WAS THE QUINTET, ALL FIVE OF US ON THAT SHOW.

>> YEAH.

>> WHERE YOU AT NOW?

>> WELL, LIKE ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT AN OPT MIST.

YOU KNOW THAT, LIKE MADELEINE ALBRIGHT WORRIES A LOT.

I DO KEEP A POSITIVE FRAME OF MIND AND THERE'S A LOT TO BE POSITIVE OF IN ST. LOUIS.

THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD NEWS, THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING THAT ARE POSITIVE.

SOME DEVELOPMENTS HAVE DONE REALLY WELL.

YOU HAVE DEVELOPERS, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE SMITH, JOE AND THE GREEN STREET, CRG AT CLAYCO AND VERY ACTIVE DEVELOPMENTS.

I THINK THERE'S SOME -- OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS SOME NEGATIVE ISSUES IN THE CITY.

I DON'T THINK THE CITY -- I JUST DON'T THINK THE CITY HAS QUITE GOTTEN THEIR FOOTING YET AND GET THEIR STRATEGY -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR STRATEGY IS, REALLY, AND I THINK FOR A CITY TO DO WELL, YOU GOT TO HAVE A STRATEGY.

EVERYBODY HAS TO KNOW WHAT IT IS.

THE CIVIC COMMUNITY, THE POLITICAL LEADERS HAVE TO BE PULLING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, AND I DON'T SEE THAT YET.

IT'S STILL EARLY IN THE NEW ADMINISTRATION, SO MAYBE GIVE IT SOME TIME, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH SAFETY.

WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH CRIME, THE SCHOOLS.

YOU'RE JUST GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEE PEOPLE FLEE THE MARKET TO GREENER PASTURES, TO ST. CHARLES, TO ST. PETER, TO CHESTERFIELD, AND RIGHT NOW THE CITY IS DOING A GOOD JOB OF MARKETING FOR THOSE AREAS AND THEY NEED TO TURN THAT AROUND.

THEY NEED A REAL TURNAROUND THERE.

>> JUST A POINT OF CLARIFICATION, BOB.

ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE MAYOR'S DESIRE TO TIE DEVELOPMENT TO BASICALLY ASSISTING IN AREAS THAT, YOU KNOW, HERETOFORE HAVE BEEN OVERLOOKED OR IGNORED?

>> I THINK THEY'RE PICKING WINNERS AND LOSERS AS OPPOSED TO HAVING A COHESIVE STRATEGY LIKE YOU SEE IN CINCINNATI OR KANSAS CITY WHERE YOU CREATE ACTUAL DISTRICTS, YOU CREATE A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

YOU SET A HIGH LEVEL OF EXPECTATION SO DEVELOPERS KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING, AND THEN IN RETURN, YOU KNOW, THERE HAS TO BE TRANSPARENCY IN THE SUBSIDY PROCESS AND THE TIF PROCESS.

IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME THAT PEOPLE IN THE POLITICAL ARENA RIGHT NOW ARE WILLING TO TALK ABOUT TIFs AND SUBSIDIES BECAUSE THEY'RE KIND OF TOXIC.

MOSTLY BECAUSE IT'S JUST PURE IGNORANCE IN MY OPINION.

I THINK THE MEDIA, EVERYBODY THAT'S AGAINST SUBSIDIES JUST DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE ECONOMIC BENEFITS TO A COMMUNITY TO USE THESE SCHOOLS, TO GET INFRASTRUCTURE AND TO GET PARKING GARAGES, TO GET ROADS AND CURBS AND TO MAKE THE DEVELOPERS COMPETITIVE.

EVERYBODY JUST KIND OF THINKS DEVELOPERS ARE ALL LINING THEIR POCKETS WITH A BUNCH OF EXTRA PROFIT AND THAT'S JUST NOT HOW INCENTIVES WORK.

THEY'RE AN INCREMENT OF NEW TAX REVENUE THAT DOESN'T EXIST WITHOUT THE DEVELOPMENT.

AND SO AS LONG AS IT'S DONE TRANSPARENTLY, ALL OF MINE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TRANSPARENT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A PRETTY ROBUST PUBLIC PROCESS IN MISSOURI FOR TIFs AND THESE THINGS, AND I JUST DONE -- I THINK THE CITY, PEOPLE ARE JUST AFRAID TO USE THE TERMS AND TO TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THEM, QUITE FRANKLY.

>> COULD YOU -- NOT YOU SPECIFICALLY, BUT DEVELOPERS AND PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, HAVE THE SAME FEELINGS AS YOU, DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH YOU COULD DO A STRONGER JOB OF, YOU KNOW, NEVER MIND MEDIA AND ALL THAT, COULD YOU MAKE YOUR CASE TO THE PUBLIC OR JUST DO A BETTER JOB OF EXPLAINING TO PEOPLE?

>> SURE, ABSOLUTELY, AND I HAVE.

YOU KNOW, WE WENT THROUGH A VERY INTENSE MULTI, MULTI-MEETING PROCESS FOR CENTENE WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THE WHOLE STD PROCESS IN CLAYTON.

THEY'RE USUALLY VERY PUBLIC, ALVIN, LIKE IN CHESTERFIELD OR WHERE THEY'VE BEEN USED SUCCESSFULLY.

IF YOU LOOK AT KANSAS CITY'S TRACK RECORD OR CINCINNATI OR EVEN CHICAGO WHERE THEY CREATE A FIFTH DISTRICT.

THE DEVELOPERS KNOW THE PROCESS AND WHAT TO EXPECT.

I THINK IN THE CITY, DEVELOPERS JUST -- IT'S KIND OF HIT OR MISS.

IT'S LIKE THE BOX OF CHOCOLATES AND YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE THE CHERRIES ARE.

I THINK THEY COULD DO A BETTER JOB OF STRIKE AND GETTING A REAL PLATFORM -- OF DESCRIBING AND GETTING A REAL PLATFORM FOR HOW THEY WANT TO DO DEVELOPMENT IN THE CITY.

AS I SAID, THERE'S GREAT EXAMPLES RIGHT IN MISSOURI.

KANSAS CITY HAS DONE A TERRIFIC JOB AND IS YIELDING GREAT RESULTS FROM IT NOW.

>> AND YOU'RE TALKING SPECIFICALLY CITY, NOT LIKE REGION-WIDE.

THIS FOCUS YOU'RE SAYING NOW IS CITY OR IS IT THROUGHOUT THE REGION?

>> I THINK THAT'S MOSTLY CITY DEVELOPMENT.

I THINK THE COUNTY AND CERTAINLY THE AREAS IN ST. CHARLES AND ST. PETER'S ARE MORE -- IT'S A MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD PROCESS AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT COULD BE BETTER IN ST. LOUIS COUNTY AS WELL.

I THINK THE REGION -- I'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW, BEATING A DEAD HORSE HERE.

YOU KNOW, THE REGION SHOULD TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET ST. LOUIS COUNTY AND THE CITY MERGED TOGETHER, AS I'VE ALWAYS BEEN AN ADVOCATE FOR THIS KIND OF 93 MUNICIPALITIES, THAT'S AN IT DID STRUGGLE FOR THE COMMUNITY.

>> IN TERMS OF THE CONVENTION CENTER, WHICH WAS ONE OF THE MAJOR TOPICS THE LAST TIME WE HAD YOU WITH US, BOB, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS TODAY KNOWING THAT IT'S MOVING FORWARD -- >> TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE.

I THINK IT'S TERRIBLE.

AND I DON'T PLAN ON EVER LETTING ANYBODY IN THE COMMUNITY FORGET THAT THEIR POLITICAL LEADERS TOTALLY FAILED THEM.

IT'S A FAILED PROJECT AT A FAILED TIME.

IT'S BALLOONED IN COST.

THE PAPER SAID TODAY IT'S A $210 MILLION PROJECT, WHICH IS FALSE.

IT'S A $400 MILLION LOADING DOCK REPAIR PROJECT THAT CUTS OFF THE NORTH SIDE OF THE CITY.

IT'S A TERRIBLE PROJECT, AND I'M -- YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE WILL BE LOTS OF EXAMPLES FOR OTHER BAD NEWS COMING WITH THE PROJECT AS THE BUDGET KEEPS BUSTING.

I MEAN, IT WILL SHOCK ME IF THE PROJECT DOESN'T TURN OUT REALLY LATE.

I THINK THERE WILL JUST BE A CONTINUAL -- IT WILL BE THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING TO THE POLITICAL LEADERS THAT DIDN'T HAVE THE, IN MY OPINION, THE RESOLVE TO REALLY GET IN A ROOM AND COME UP WITH A GOOD SOLUTION FOR THE COMMUNITY.

IT'S GOING TO BE A BRUISE TO THE POLITICAL PEOPLE THAT SUPPORTED IT.

>> AND SO A FOLLOW-UP, AND I'M SORRY THERE'S THIS LITTLE TINY DELAY BETWEEN COLORADO AND OUR NINE PBS STUDIOS.

WHY CAN'T WE GET IN THAT ROOM, BOB?

WHAT IS IT THAT IS SO ENDEMIC ABOUT POLITICS IN ST. LOUIS THAT WE CAN'T GET THERE WHEN SO MANY COMPETING CITIES AROUND US DO IT WITH GREAT EASE?

>> I DON'T -- WELL, I'VE SAID THAT LIKE A BROKEN RECORD.

IT DOESN'T START WITH THE POLITICIANS.

YOU KNOW, YOU REALLY CAN'T BLAME POLITICIANS WHO DON'T HAVE A CIVIC COMMUNITY BEHIND THEM.

I THINK IN ALL THE MARKETS WHERE I'M DOING A LOT OF WORK, WHERE THERE'S ROBUST KIND OF CIVIC ACTION ALONGSIDE THE POLITICAL AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD PEOPLE, THE CLERGY, EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE A VOICE AND IF YOU LOOK AT HOW CIVIC PROGRESS IS SET UP IN ATLANTA AS AN EXAMPLE, IN CHICAGO WHERE I'VE, YOU KNOW, HAD -- BEEN VERY FORTUNATE ECONOMICALLY, YOU KNOW, THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY IS SO VOCAL AND SO ENGAGED AND SO INVOLVED, AND RIGHT NOW THEY'RE NOT VERY HAPPY, BUT AT LEAST THEY'RE AT THE TABLE TALKING ABOUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AND ARGUING AND DEBATING WITH THE POLITICIANS, AND I JUST DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING IN ST. LOUIS.

I THINK, AGAIN, IT'S EARLY DAYS FOR THE NEW ORGANIZATION, FOR JASON HALL WHO I LIKE.

I DON'T -- AGAIN, I DON'T COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE STRATEGY YET, AND I'M SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THAT IF THERE'S A RENAISSANCE IN ST. LOUIS, IT WILL BEGIN THERE AND IT WILL START BECOMING A STRATEGY, AND IT WILL START INTERTWINING WITH THE POLITICAL FIGURES IN THE COMMUNITY, BUT ON THE SITUATION WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAD THIS -- KIND OF THIS BLAST OF CORRUPTION RECENTLY, YOU COULD SEE WHY, YOU KNOW, CIVIC LEADERS, BUSINESS LEADERS, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T WANT TO ENGAGE RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN, THE MAYOR, I THINK SHE -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE MEANT WHEN SHE SAID THAT THE INDICTMENTS OF LEWIS REED AND OTHERS WAS THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG, BUT WHAT A TERRIBLE IMAGE THAT PUT IN EVERYBODY'S MIND.

I THINK THAT WAS A REALLY BAD PHRASE TO USE.

I THOUGHT THE CITY WAS NEAR ROCK BOTTOM, AND HER COMMENT MADE ME THINK, WELL, IT'S NOT AT ROCK BOTTOM YET, SO I THINK YOU GOT TO GET TO THE BOTTOM BEFORE YOU CAN START CLIMBING OUT.

AND THE CIVIC COMMUNITY WILL HAVE TO HAVE THE BIGGER VOICE IN HELPING THE MAYOR AND THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE.

I DON'T THINK THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE HAS ROBUST, LIKE, COUNSEL WITH THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

IN FACT, I KNOW THAT HE DOES NOT.

I'VE MET WITH HIM.

I KNOW A FEW OTHER PEOPLE THAT HAVE MET HIM, BUT MOST THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY RIGHT NOW IS VERY WEARY OF ENGAGING, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE THINK EVERYBODY'S BEING RECORDED BECAUSE WE'RE AT THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG OR WHATEVER THE MAYOR SAID.

I THINK THAT'S A -- IT WAS A DANGEROUS COMMENT TO MAKE.

>> AS FAR AS CORPORATE LEADERS ARE CONCERNED, OKAY, IF YOU -- RIGHT NOW, IT'S NOT JUST POLITICIANS.

I THINK THAT THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PEOPLE JUST IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC WHO FEEL AS THOUGH, WHY DO I WANT TO HEAR FROM CORPORATE LEADERS AND BUSINESS LEADERS, THEY'VE BEEN HERE FOR 20, 30 YEARS AND THEY WERE PART OF THE BREAK.

WHY ARE WE LISTENING TO THEM TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX IT?

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANY BUSINESS LEADERS AROUND THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND 20 OR 30 YEARS.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT?

WE WERE TALKING JOKINGLY BEFORE THE SHOW STARTED ABOUT FORGETTING OUR AGE, AND I THINK I ACTUALLY KIND OF IT DID RIGHT THEN.

I HEAR YOUR POINT.

>> THEY WERE AROUND DURING THE BREAKS TOO.

>> SINCE I STARTED CLAYCO, WE LOST 50 OF OUR BIGGEST CORPORATIONS THAT EITHER WENT OUT OF BUSINESS OR SOLD OR RELOCATED AND MOVED.

I THINK WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, THE BIG QUESTION WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, PUTTING A STRATEGIC PLAN TOGETHER AS A REGION AND AS A COMMUNITY.

THERE WAS SOME, LIKE, REAL MOVEMENT WHEN THE COMMUNITY COMPETED FOR THE HQ-2, EVEN THOUGH THAT WAS KIND OF A, YOU KNOW, LOSS LEADER KIND OF THING, BUT IT DID BRING THE COMMUNITY TOGETHER.

THE CITY, THE COUNTY, EVERYBODY, THE UNIVERSITIES ALL PARTICIPATED.

I'VE URGED PEOPLE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE KIND OF MAGIC THAT WAS CREATED IN THE AMAZON PROPOSAL THAT SHOWED LIKE WHAT A REAL REGIONAL PROPOSAL COULD LOOK LIKE.

MARK HERNEN CAME TO THE MEETING AND WE ALL GOT EXCITED AND I WAS LIKE, WOW, THIS IS A BREAKTHROUGH.

THE POLITICAL, THE UNIVERSITIES ALL IN THE SAME ROOM.

WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITHOUT ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE AT THE TABLE.

I DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING TODAY.

I DON'T SEE THAT BEING CONVENED AND HOW DO YOU -- RIGHT NOW, WE'RE JUST MOVING CHESS PIECES AROUND ON A BOARD IN ST. LOUIS.

IT'S A ZERO-SUM GAME.

NOBODY -- IF SOMEBODY HAS A REALLY SUCCESSFUL PROJECT IN CLAYTON, IT'S AT THE CITY'S EXPENSE.

IF SOMEBODY HAS A REALLY SUCCESSFUL PROJECT IN THE CITY, IT'S AT SOME OTHER AREA IN THE CITY'S EXPENSE.

WE'RE NOT BRINGING IN NEW BUSINESSES.

WE'RE NOT -- YOU KNOW, EVERY CITY THAT I'M WORKING WITH HAS AN ENGINE WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO COMPETE FOR BUSINESS RELOCATIONS INTO THEIR COMMUNITY.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT RESIDES IN ST. LOUIS AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY WOULD BEGIN TO COMPETE WITH A, SAY, CATERPILLAR WAS GOING TO MOVE TO TEXAS.

HOW WOULD YOU GET -- I'M JUST USING CATERPILLAR AS AN EXAMPLE.

HOW WOULD YOU PUT A COMPETITIVE PROPOSAL TO GET CATERPILLAR TO TAKE A LOOK AT ST. LOUIS RIGHT NOW?

I THINK THAT'S A QUESTION THAT THE WHOLE COMMUNITY HAS TO ASK ITSELF, AND THE PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THE CITIZENS, THEY SHOULD BE DEMANDING.

THEY SHOULD BE HOLDING THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND THEY SHOULD BE HOLDING THE POLITICAL -- THEIR POLITICAL LEADERS ACCOUNTABLE.

>> YOU KNOW, BOB, YOU HAVE SAID IN ARTICLES, YOU HAVE BEEN QUOTED AS SAYING THAT PART OF YOUR JOB AS A LEADER IS TO KNOW TRENDS BEFORE THEY BECOME TRENDS, AND I THINK THAT'S THE -- THAT'S SORT OF A PART OF THE PUZZLE THAT THOSE OF US WHO ARE NOT IN CONSTRUCTION OR NOT IN AREAS WHERE WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO LOOK INTO THAT ECONOMIC CRYSTAL BALL, WHAT IS IT THAT PEOPLE SEE IN ST. LOUIS?

WHAT ARE THE MAKE-OR-BREAK ASPECTS OF DOING BUSINESS?

WHY WOULDN'T A CATERPILLAR HAVE LOOKED AT -- AND MAYBE THEY DID AND WE DIDN'T KNOW IT -- LOOKED AT THE ST. LOUIS AREA?

WHAT IS IT THAT'S KEEPING PEOPLE FROM ST. LOUIS?

IS IT PERCEPTION OR REALITY OR BOTH?

>> IT'S SOME OF BOTH, BUT I THINK THERE'S SOME REALLY GREAT -- ON THE POSITIVE SIDE, YOU KNOW, WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY, ST. LOUIS UNIVERSITY, EJC, SSM, AMAZING HEALTHCARE, VERY AFFORDABLE COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE STILL GETTING SOME OF OUR EMPLOYEES -- WHEN WE HIRE PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY, WE'VE HIRED, I DON'T KNOW, HUNDREDS -- 500, 600 PEOPLE THIS YEAR IN CLAYCO, AND WE GIVE THEM A CHOICE WHERE THEY LIVE.

AND THEY CAN GO TO CHICAGO, THEY CAN GO TO OUR OFFICE NOW IN PHOENIX, THEY CAN GO TO ST. LOUIS, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE STILL DO CHOOSE ST. LOUIS BECAUSE OF THE LOW COST.

YOU CAN -- HOUSING IS VERY AFFORDABLE.

WE HAVE GREAT SPORTS TEAMS.

I THINK KUDOS TO THE ANDY TAYLOR AND THE NEW SOCCER STADIUM.

I MEAN, THOSE THINGS ARE EXCITING, GOOD THINGS.

THEY'RE LIKE -- BUT THEY'RE JUST NOT ENOUGH TO GET THE -- TO GET THE KIND OF MOMENTUM WE NEED TO GET REAL CORPORATIONS TO REALLY LOOK AT MOVING TO ST. LOUIS FOR ANY REASON OTHER THAN IT'S LOGISTICALLY THE RIGHT LOCATION.

>> I WANT TO GO BACK TO A POINT YOU MADE EARLY, AND IT'S IN THAT, I THINK ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WE DO HAVE IN ATTRACTING BUSINESSES AND PEOPLE IS THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, OKAY?

IN THE CITY.

AND ALL RIGHT, NOW, MANY PEOPLE HAVE TRIED TO ADDRESS THIS AND COULD THE CORPORATE COMMUNITY WORK TOGETHER WITH POLITICIANS AND WITH THE COMMUNITY TO JUST TURN IT AROUND ONCE IT'S FOR ALL, OR DOES IT HAVE TO BE MORE ORGANIC THAN THAT?

>> VERY FREQUENTLY, AT CLAYCO, WE DO A SWAT ANALYSIS.

WE DO JUST A BASIC STRATEGIC PLANNING.

I MEAN, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN -- I THINK CLAYCO AND OUR COMPETITORS, AT LEAST THE COMPETITORS THAT WE'RE REGULARLY BEATING, IS THAT WE HAVE AN UNBELIEVABLE STRATEGIC PLAN AND EVERYBODY IN THE COMPANY KNOWS WHAT IT IS.

AND WE'VE CREATED A CULTURE OF TRANSPARENCY AND OPEN-BOOK COMPANY AND EVERYBODY IN THE ORGANIZATION KNOWS WHAT OUR STRATEGY AND OUR PLAN IS AND WE'RE VOCAL.

THEY HEAR FROM THE LEADERS IN THE COMPANY WHAT OUR PLAN IS.

THAT'S REQUIRED FOR ANY MAJOR CITY OR COMMUNITY, SO AGAIN, IT GETS BACK TO, I DON'T KNOW WHO WOULD CONVENE, THIS WHO WOULD LEAD THIS EFFORT, BUT BRINGING THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY TOGETHER WITH THE POLITICAL LEADERSHIP AND YOU HAVE TO BRING IN NEIGHBORHOODS.

YOU HAVE TO BRING IN -- YOU HAVE TO BRING IN NEIGHBORHOOD LEADERS.

YOU HAVE TO BRING IN PEOPLE FROM THE BLACK CHURCHES ON THE NORTH SIDE.

THEY HAVE TO HAVE THEIR VOICE HEARD AND THAT IS HAPPENING AROUND THE COUNTRY IN OTHER CIVIC OPERATIONS AND IN STRATEGIC PLANNING PROCESSES, AND AGAIN, I JUST DON'T KNOW -- I MEAN, I CAN'T EVEN -- CAN YOU IMAGINE A SCENARIO WHERE A MEETING LIKE THAT WOULD EVEN HAPPEN?

WHERE WOULD YOU HAVE IT?

WOULD YOU HAVE IT IN THE CITY OR WOULD YOU HAVE IT IN THE COUNTY?

WOULD YOU HAVE IT AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY OR AT UMSL?

I CAN'T START ENVISIONING WHERE THIS WOULD THIS BEGIN, BUT IF IT DOESN'T BEGIN, THERE WON'T BE A BEGINNING.

>> IN TERMS OF -- IN TERMS OF LABOR, WHAT ABOUT CONSTRUCTION LABOR SHORTAGES?

HOW ARE YOU AT CLAYCO, HOW ARE YOU ABLE TO -- I KNOW THAT RETENTION IS IMPORTANT TO YOU, DIVERSITY IS IMPORTANT TO YOU.

>> SURE.

>> WHAT ARE OTHER WAYS THAT YOU KEEP YOUR FORCE, YOUR LABOR FORCE, STABILIZED?

>> YEAH, WE HAVE GREAT LABOR IN ST. LOUIS.

THIS IS ANOTHER HIGHLY POSITIVE THING FOR THE COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW, IT'S THOUGHT OF AS A UNION TOWN, BUT IT'S A HIGHLY PRODUCTIVE UNION TOWN COMPARE TO OTHER PLACES, COMPARED TO CHICAGO.

OUR COSTS ARE LOWER.

THE UNIONS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ATTRACT PRETTY CLOSE TO WHAT THE KIND OF NECESSARY AMOUNT OF LABOR IS TO THE MARKET.

WE HAVEN'T HAD TREMENDOUS LABOR SHORTAGES IN THE ST. LOUIS AREA.

IN FACT, CLAYCO'S BEEN VERY BLESSED.

WE HAVEN'T REALLY SEEN HUGE LABOR SHORTAGES ANYWHERE WE ARE.

MAYBE IN PHOENIX, WE'RE HAVING SOME CONCRETE SHORTAGES AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT FOR THE MOST PART, WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DELIVER.

BUT THIS IS A BRIGHT SHINING SPOT FOR ST. LOUIS, TOO, IS THAT OUR LABOR MARKET IS PRETTY DECENT.

IT'S GETTING BETTER AND MORE DIVERSIFIED.

WE STILL HAVE WORK TO DO, BUT ST. LOUIS IS WAY AHEAD ON THE DIVERSITY FRONT THAN CHICAGO IS, AS AN EXAMPLE.

>> WOW.

>> BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

CHICAGO IS IN A TERRIBLE SITUATION IN TERMS OF THE DIVERSITY IN THE CRAFTS, BUT THEY'RE WORKING ON IT.

THEY'RE MAKING, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE MAKING STRIDES.

BUT THEY HAVE TO GET THEIR UNION HALLS BACK IN THEIR CITY.

YEARS AGO WHEN DALY WAS THE MAYOR, ALL THE UNIONS MOVED THEIR APPRENTICESHIP HALLS WAY OUT OF THE CITY, SO IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR UNDERPRIVILEGED PEOPLE OR, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING INTO THE LABOR MARKET TO GET TO THE APPRENTICESHIP HALLS AND THAT'S NOT THE CASE IN ST. LOUIS.

SO WE'RE MAKING GOOD STRIDES IN ST. LOUIS.

>> I HAD NO IDEA.

THAT'S INTERESTING.

SO WE TALKED ABOUT -- >> WE ALSO HAVE AN INCREDIBLY HIGHLY EDUCATED GROUP OF GRADUATES COMING OUT OF SOME GREAT UNIVERSITIES IN ST. LOUIS.

THE PROBLEM IS THEY'RE LEAVING.

>> OKAY.

>> THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

>> YOU SENT AN EMAIL COMPANY-WIDE EARLIER IN WEEK, I BELIEVE, PERHAPS LAST WEEK, AND YOU WERE EMPHASIZING, AFFIRMING A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE IN YOUR MIND AND THAT CLAYCO WOULD PAY TO SUPPORT WOMEN'S HEALTH ISSUES.

AND WHAT I THOUGHT WAS SO INTERESTING, YOU WERE -- YOU SAID, IT'S ALWAYS DANGEROUS TO TAKE A POLITICAL POSITION, BUT YOU SAID, BUT FOR ME, I DON'T CARE.

WERE YOU LIKE THIS BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, BOB, OR IS THERE -- I MEAN -- >> YES.

>> -- IS THIS SOMETHING THAT HAS EVOLVED, AND SPECIFICALLY SPEAK TO WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS A THREAT TO WOMEN IN THE WORKPLACE.

>> EVERYTHING IS A THREAT TO WOMEN IN THE WORKFORCE.

AND YOU PROBABLY KNOW IT YOURSELF.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER BEING IN BUSINESS, WOMEN HAD A STACKED DECK AGAINST THEM IN THE WORKFORCE.

IT'S -- YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY, VERY CLEAR.

THERE'S SO MANY CHALLENGES TO BE A WOMAN IN THE WORKFORCE, TO BE THE CAREGIVER TO THE CHILDREN, OFTEN TO THE PARENTS AND THE IN-LAWS, SO THEY'RE RAISING KIDS, THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE CHILDCARE.

SO FREQUENTLY, THE MAN DOESN'T FA PARTICIPATE, ALTHOUGH WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF MOVEMENT IN THAT DIRECTION NOW AND AT CLAYCO, WE'RE TRYING TO BE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THAT.

I THINK THIS IS JUST ANOTHER KIND OF WAY TO KNOCK WOMEN DOWN AND I'VE JUST SEEN THIS MYSELF.

I SENT AN EMAIL OUT A WEEK BEFORE BECAUSE IT WAS INTERNATIONAL ENGINEERING WOMEN'S DAY.

I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS ONE, BUT I'M GLAD THIS IS ONE, AND I SENT AN EMAIL OUT AND JUST SAID, HEY, I WANT TO HEAR FROM MY WOMEN IN MY COMPANY, HOW IS IT GOING?

AND I GOT HUNDREDS OF EMAILS, AND WE HAVE 125 WOMEN ARCHITECTS IN THE COMPANY AND WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, ABOUT 50 NOW, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE IN THE CONSTRUCTION SIDE OF THE ENGINEERING AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A LOT.

THAT'S -- 20 YEARS AGO, YOU GO TO THESE ENGINEERING SCHOOLS, THERE WERE NO WOMEN IN THE CLASSROOM.

TODAY THE CLASSES ARE MUCH MORE ROBUST.

SOME OF THEM ARE 50-50, AND THOSE WOMEN ARE GRADUATING AND THEY'RE COMING INTO THE WORKFORCE, NOT JUST AT CLAYCO, BUT MANY OF OUR COMPETITORS ARE DOING A GOOD JOB ON THIS FRONT TOO.

BUT THEY JUST HAVE SO MANY CHALLENGES.

THE BIAS IN THE INDUSTRY, AND SO TO HAVE THE SUPREME COURT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF KNOCK WOMEN JUST BACK ANOTHER STEP, AND I ALSO DON'T THINK THAT'S GOOD FOR THE STATE OF MISSOURI BECAUSE, AGAIN, IT'S ANOTHER CHECK AGAINST A CORPORATION RELOCKING RELOCKING -- RELOCATING TO MISSOURI VERSUS A BLUE STATE RIGHT NOW.

>> I'M SORRY.

>> YOU HAVE BEEN INSTRUMENTAL THROUGH THE STATE, AND WE HAVE A LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF TIME.

I HAVE A FEELING WE COULD GO THREE HOURS WITH YOU, BOB, AS USUAL, BUT YOU'VE BEEN INSTRUMENTAL, YOUR WORK THROUGH THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND DUBAI AND THE WORLD EXPO, AND NOW YOU'RE TRYING TO BRING THE WORLD EXPO TO MINNESOTA, BUT THERE ARE MANY OF US HERE IN ST. LOUIS WHO ARE TRYING TO BRING IT HERE.

WE DON'T WANT TO BE AGAINST YOU AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE.

WHY IS IT THIS SO IMPORTANT?

>> WELL, IT'S IMPORTANT TO THE UNITED STATES, NOT NECESSARILY THAT IT'S IN MINNESOTA.

IT'S ALWAYS BEEN GOOD.

THE WORLD FAIRS AND EXPOS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN GOOD FOR AMERICA WHETHER THEY'RE IN SEATTLE OR CHICAGO OR ST. LOUIS.

WE KNOW IN ST. LOUIS THE LEGACY THAT THEY HAVE.

IT WASN'T A POSITION THAT I SOUGHT.

I GOT A WHITE HOUSE APPOINTMENT AND I WENT OVER AND SERVED, AND IT WAS A TERRIFIC HONOR TO BE A PARTICIPANT, BUT IT REALLY WAS AN EYE-OPENING EXPERIENCE HOW MUCH AMERICA HAS TO OFFER AND THAT EVEN THOUGH, YOU KNOW, WE ARE POLARIZED IN AMERICA, WE ARE STILL A BEACON OF HOPE AROUND THE WORLD AND THAT CAME THROUGH.

I HEARD THAT EVERY SINGLE DAY.

IT DOESN'T HELP WHEN REPUBLICAN SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN AND BUSINESS PEOPLE OF HIGH LEVEL OF RESPECT ARE QUESTIONING OUR ELECTION.

I HEARD A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT, LIKE, HEY DOESN'T THAT HAPPEN IN AFRICA?

I DON'T THINK THAT PEOPLE IN AMERICA ARE THINKING ABOUT THE PERCEPTION AROUND THE WORLD OF US QUESTIONING THE VALIDITY OF OUR ELECTIONS AND HOW HORRIBLE THAT IS.

SO WE HAVE SOME WORK TO DO IN AMERICA, BUT STILL, YOU KNOW, HANDS DOWN, UNITED STATES SHINED AT THE EXPO.

PEOPLE CAME AND WERE GRACIOUS AND WANTED TO BE PART OF IT, AND I SAW PEOPLE OUTSIDE TOUCHING OUR FLAG AND LIKE IN A -- LIKE THEY WERE TOUCHING A BABY.

AND WE HAVE SOMETHING REALLY TERRIFIC THAT WE SHOULD BE BEING MORE PROTECTIVE OF.

AND SO BRINGING IT TO MINNESOTA IS, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT'S A GREAT LOCATION THEY SELECTED IN MINNEAPOLIS AND I'M VERY PROUD TO REPRESENT THE BID, AND I HOPE THAT THE -- WE NEED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO RALLY AROUND THE BID AND THEY CAN'T JUST HEAR FROM A FEW OF US.

THEY HAVE TO HEAR FROM EVERYONE, AND IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR THE UNITED STATES TO BRING THE WORLD'S FAIR BACK TO OUR SOIL.

>> SO SPEAKING OF PROUD, I HAVE A DAUGHTER WHO'S GOING TO GRADUATE IN ENGINEERING THIS TIME NEXT YEAR.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> HAVE HER CALL ME.

WE HAVE A TERRIFIC INTERNSHIP PROGRAM.

WE HAVE 100 INTERNS IN OUR INTERNSHIP PROGRAM AND IT'S A PAID INTERNSHIP.

I HATE PEOPLE THAT DON'T PAY THEIR INTERNS.

>> WELL, ABSOLUTELY.

>> IT'S SO OBNOXIOUS, BUT WE PAY OUR INTERNS.

WE PAY FOR THEIR TRAVEL, BUT WE REALLY TEACH THEM.

WE REALLY PUT THEM IN A SCENARIO WHERE THEY CAN LEARN THE PROFESSION AND LEARN THE WORK AND LEARN HOW IT -- WHAT A VISION OF THEIR CAREER COULD LOOK LIKE IN THE BUSINESS.

HAVE HER SHOOT ME AN EMAIL.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SHE'S -- >> I'M THE HEAD OF HR AT CLAYCO.

>> YOU'RE THE HEAD OF -- SHE WENT TO THE AMEREN NUCLEAR POWER PLANT, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, FOR AN INTERNSHIP AND SHE IS GETTING PAID.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, MAN.

>> MORE POWER TO YOU GUYS.

>> YOU'RE A STRAIGHT SHOOTER AND WE APPRECIATE THAT.

YOU HAVE A GREAT NIGHT.

AND YOU GUYS HAVE A GREAT NIGHT TOO.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

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