>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON NEXT UP.

THIS IS WHERE WE INTERVIEW LEADERS OF OUR COMMUNITY ABOUT CURRENT TOPICS AND THIS IS PRIDE MONTH.

AND SO WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS ISSUES AFFECTING THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY.

BILL McCLELLAN AND I WILL BE POSING THOSE QUESTIONS TO PHILIP DEICTH OF THE LGBTQ CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

IAN DARNELL, CURATORIAL ASSISTANT AT THE MISSOURI HISTORICAL SOCIETY.

HE'S IN CHARGE OF THE LGBTQ COLLECTION THERE.

AND WE WELCOME JAMES ROBINSON, ARTISTIC DIRECTOR AT OPERA THEATRE ST. LOUIS AND CO-DIRECTOR OF THE WORLD PREMIER OF "HARVEY MILK" WHICH IS CURRENTLY RUNNING THIS MONTH IN WEBSTER GROVER.

BEFORE WE BEGIN OUR DISCUSSION, BROOK BUTLER PUT TOGETHER A LITTLE BIT PACKAGE OF INFORMATION ABOUT PRIDE MONTH AND MISSOURI.

LET'S GO TO THAT.

>> I BOUGHT THIS POSTER AT THE UNITED STATE HOLOCAUST MUSEUM IN WASHINGTON, D.C., IN MARCH OF '94 AND BROUGHT IT BACK TO MY CLASSROOM.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST AT THAT TIME.

I SHOWED IT TO MY STUDENTS.

I POINTED OUT TO THEM EACH OF THE SYMBOLS, WHAT THEY MEANT.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE FRENCH JEW, A GERMAN JEW, A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS.

THIS IS THE PINK TRIANGLE THAT GAY PEOPLE HAD TO WEAR AND I SAID, AS A GAY PERSON, I WOULD HAVE BEEN FORCED TO LIVE A PINK TRIANGLE BECAUSE I LIVED THEN BECAUSE I AM GAY.

>> VERY HARD FOR ANYONE IN 1994.

I'M SURE THERE HAD BEEN OTHER TEACHERS WHO WERE EXPOSED AS GAY OR LESBIAN IN MISSOURI AND DIDN'T SURVIVE THAT.

IN THIS CASE, I FELT IT WAS REALLY NECESSARY THAT I MAKE IT.

>> RODNEY WILSON NOT ONLY MADE IT AS A TEACHER, BUT HIS EFFORTS TO RAISE AWARENESS AND INCLUSION OF LGBTQ+ HISTORY HAS SINCE SPREAD ACROSS THE WORLD.

HISTORY MONTH THAT'S CELEBRATED THROUGH THE MONTH OF OCTOBER, THAT WAS RODNEY, A SOCIAL STUDIES TEACHER AT MEHLVILLE HIGH SCHOOL.

IN FACT, EMPS THE FIRST OPENLY GAY TEACHER IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI, A SIGNIFICANT FEAT CONSIDERING HOW IT COULD HAVE EASILY ENDED HIS CAREER.

BUT AS WORD SPREAD OF RODNEY'S COMING OUT, THERE WERE MANY MIXED REACTIONS AS SEEN IN LOCAL AND NATIONAL NEWS COVERAGE AND EVEN IN POLITE CONVERSATIONS ON THE ISSUE.

>> THE COVER STORY IN THE RIVERFRONT TIMES HAD TO DO WITH A TEACHER IN THE MEHLVILLE PUBLIC SCHOOL WHO TOLD HIS CLASS THAT HE WAS A HOMOSEXUAL.

>> THIS IS TOLL TALE INAPPROPRIATE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

IT'S BAD TASTE ORRED ABOUT JUDGMENT.

HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN REPRIMANDED.

>> THE FACT THE GUY REFERS TO THE FACT HE'S MARRIED IS NO PROBLEM FOR ANYBODY.

THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE HERE.

HE SIMPLY REFERRED TO HIS ORIENTATION.

HIS ISSUE, WHICH I THINK IS VERY INTERESTING, HE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT GAYS AND LESBIANS IN HISTORY IN THE CONTEXT OF THE REALITY OF IT.

>> FOR EXAMPLE, YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT 1960s SOCIAL MOVEMENTS, AFRICAN AMERICAN CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, WOMEN'S MOVEMENT, NATIVE AMERICAN MOVEMENT, LATINO MOVEMENT, YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT THOSE MOVEMENTS WITHOUT ALSO TALKING ABOUT STONEWALL, LESBIAN AND GAY HISTORY, PRIDE MARCHES, THE BEGINNING OF AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE ONE'S SELF AND ONE'S COMMUNITY EQUAL IN THE LARGER SOCIETY.

SO WE'VE MADE LOTS OF PROGRESS, BUT WE ALSO HAVE CHALLENGES.

YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD IN SEPTEMBER OF LAST YEAR AT THE MISSOURI STATE MUSEUM, AN EXHIBIT MAKING HISTORY ON GAY AND LESBIAN HISTORY IN KANSAS CITY WAS REMOVED AFTER JUST FOUR DAYS BECAUSE PROVE -- BECAUSE OF PROTESTS ABOUT IT.

YOU'VE HEARD OF THE FLORIDA BILL UNDER CONSIDERATION.

ABOUT 30 OF OUR STATE LEGISLATURES RIGHT NOW, VARIOUS PIECES OF LEGISLATION GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS, MAY OR MAY NOT MAKE IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE END TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK, THAT WOULD MAKE BEING LESBIAN OR GAY OR BISEXUAL OR TRANSGENDER FOR KIDS OR FOR TEACHERS MORE DIFFICULT.

AND I THINK WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF THAT AND WE NEED TO BE VIGILANT.

THAT'S SOMETHING HISTORY TEACHES.

IT'S NOT ALWAYS A FORWARD TRAJECTORY.

THERE ARE STEPS BACK AND SOMETIMES THOSE STEPS BACK ARE BRUTAL.

>> WOW, WHAT A FASCINATING PIECE AND IF YOU'D LIKE TO LEARN MORE, BROOK BUTLER'S LOOK AT PRIDE MONTH IN MISSOURI WILL BE PLAYED IN ITS ENTIRETY ON LIVING ST. LOUIS AT 7:00 ON MONDAY.

MAKE SURE YOU HIT THAT.

OF COURSE, YOU CAN ALWAYS LEARN MORE AT NINEPBS.ORG.

IT'S A GOOD THING NOBODY HAS CHANGED SINCE 1994.

>> WELL, ABSOLUTELY.

MY HAIR SUDDENLY GOT LIGHTER.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

>> WHERE DO WE BEGIN?

HOW ABOUT WITH YOU, JOEBS.

YOU'RE THE CO-DIRECTOR OF HARVEY MILK REIMAGINE, WHICH OF ALL PLACES IS HAVING ITS WORLD PREMIERE IN ST. LOUIS, THE OPRAH THEATER OF ST. LOUIS.

>> YES, WE'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT IT.

OPERA THEATRE OF ST. LOUIS TAKES ON A LOT OF NEW WEEKS, WE DO A NEW WORK EVERY WE'RE.

THIS IS A UNIQUE FEES.

IT WAS WRITTEN 35 YEARS AGO BY STEWART WALLACE AND MICHAEL COREY, A BIG SPRAWLING OPERA IN THREE ACTS AND NOBODY HAD PERFORMED IT IN A QUITE A LONG TIME.

STEWART WALLACE CAME TO ME AND SAID I'M THINKING OF DOING A REVISION OF "HARVEY MILK" TO GET IT DOWN TO TWO ACTS, SOMETHING MORE MANAGEABLE, AND I SAID I THINK WE'D LOVE TO DO THE WORLD PREMIERE OF THAT, SO THAT'S WHERE WE ARE.

WE'RE VERY EXCITED TO BE UNVEILING THIS.

>> WAS THERE ANY RESISTANCE TO HAVING THE WORLD PREMIERE IN ST. LOUIS?

I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S A FEATHER IN OUR CAP.

I WOULD NOT EXPECT IT TO BE PRODUCED -- BE SHOWN HERE FOR THE FIRST TIME.

>> WELL, IT'S VERY INTERESTING.

OVER THE YEARS, WE HAVE DONE SO MANY NEW PIECES.

WE HAVE BEEN REALLY GROUNDBREAKING WHEN IT COMES TO PRESENTING NEW WORK.

SO THE OPERA WORLD HAS COME TO LOOK AT OPERA THEATRE OF ST. LOUIS AS THE COMPANY THAT TAKES THESE COURAGEOUS -- THIS COURAGEOUS STANCE AND PRESENTS ALL SORTS OF DARING NEW WORK.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE DONE TWO OPERAS BY THE JAZZ COMPOSER TERRANCE BLANCHARD, BOTH OF WHICH HAD STRONG GAY THEMES OR BISEXUAL THEMES, AND WE'VE DONE AN OPERA ABOUT ALICE B.TOKLAS AND GERTRUDE STEIN IN ADDITION TO SO MANY OTHER THINGS.

I THINK OPERA THEATRE OF ST. LOUIS HAS A REPUTATION FOR DOING SOME REALLY REMARKABLE NEW WORK AND WE JUST DON'T SHY AWAY FROM THOSE TOPICS.

IT'S REALLY WHAT WE DO.

>> IAN DARNELL, YOU STUDY THESE ISSUES FROM A HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE.

I GOT TO ADMIT, I WAS VERY SURPRISED, EVEN THOUGH I REMEMBER THE STORY, BUT I CAN'T BELIEVE IN 1994, A TEACHER AT MEHLVILLE HIGH SCHOOL GOT INTO TROUBLE BY ANNOUNCING TO HIS STUDENTS THAT HE'S GAY.

>> RIGHT, YEAH, IT'S AN INCREDIBLE STORY AND ALSO REFERENCED IN THAT VIDEO WE WATCHED, HE FOUNDED LGBTQ HISTORY MONTH, SO THAT'S ANOTHER INCREDIBLE PART OF ST. LOUIS'S ROLE IN LGBTQ HISTORY, BOTH NATIONALLY AND GLOBALLY.

>> I WOULD THINK THAT IF WE HAD THAT DISCUSSION ON THIS PANEL TODAY, CERTAINLY EVERYONE WOULD CRITICIZE ANYONE WHO WAS CRITICIZING HIM FOR COMING OUT AS GAY IN A CLASSROOM, OR AM I WRONG ON THAT?

IT SEEMS TO ME WE MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS IN THE PAST 28 YEARS, AT LEAST AT THAT LEVEL.

DON'T BE SHY, GENTLEMEN.

>> I'M SURE THERE'S BEEN PROGRESS, BUT YOU'D BE SURPRISED.

I THINK IF YOU GO OUTSIDE OF THE ST. LOUIS AREA, OUTSIDE OF THE MAJOR URBAN CENTERS, THERE STILL IS -- AND EVEN SOMETIMES WITHIN ST. LOUIS -- SOME REAL PREJUDICE AGAINST LGBTQ PEOPLE.

>> THE RFT HAD A STORY THIS WEEK ABOUT HOW THE GROVE IS CHANGING, IT'S NO LONGER THE GAYBORHOOD, THEY CALLED IT.

IT SAID THAT ORIGINALLY THE CENTRAL WEST END WAS KIND OF THE GAY NEIGHBORHOOD AND SOULARD AND LAFAYETTE SQUARE AND THEN THE GROVE, AND NOW THE GROVE IS BECOMING MORE -- LESS GAY.

WHAT DO YOU NICE THINK OF THAT?

>> WELL, IAN DOES SOME GREAT TOURS, HISTORIC WALKING TOURS AROUND ST. LOUIS THAT EXPLAIN ALL OF THAT.

>> YEAH, I DO A TOUR OF THE CENTRAL WEST END AS A LGBTQ NEIGHBORHOOD.

SO WE TRACK THAT ENTIRE HISTORY.

ITS ORIGINS AS A LGBTQ NEIGHBORHOOD YOU CAN TRACE ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE 1930s.

A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THERE WAS A GAY NIGHTCLUB WITH FEMALE IMPERSONATION SHOWS AS THEY SAID AT THE TIME, AND WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT HOW IT SORT OF CEASED TO BE A GAY NEIGHBORHOOD INTO THE 21st CENTURY.

>> HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

HOW DOES A NEIGHBORHOOD CEASE TO BECOME GAY?

IS THE GROVE CEASING TO BECOME GAY?

>> I THINK SOME OF IT'S A BUSINESS ISSUE.

THERE'S A DUAL-EDGED SWORD TO INCLUSION.

AS PEOPLE DON'T NEED TO -- PARTICULARLY AND THEN WITH ONLINE CONNECTIONS THAT GET MADE, ORGANIZATIONS, THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO MEET PEOPLE.

THE BARS AREN'T THE ONLY WAY, SO WE HAVE RESTAURANTS.

WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE STRAIGHT COMING TO RESTAURANTS AND CLUBS THAT ARE TRADITIONALLY LGBTQ.

SO WE GET ABSORBED.

EVEN CHURCHES THAT WERE PREDOMINANTLY LGBTQ AROUND THE COUNTRY ARE LOSING MEMBERSHIP AS PEOPLE ARE BECOMING MORE MAIN STREAMED INTO THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD CONGREGATION IF THAT'S WHERE THEY FEEL COMFORTABLE.

BUT WITH YOUR OTHER QUESTION, ALSO, THOUGH, WE JUST SAW THE "DON'T SAY GAY" BILL IN FLORIDA PASS AND MISSOURI HAS A MAGNET FOR ATTRACTING MORE CONSERVATIVE EFFORTS IN LEGISLATION.

SO WE COULD SEE A BACKWARDS STEP HAPPENING HERE IN MISSOURI ALSO.

>> WELL, AS WE SAW IN BROOK BUTLER'S PIECE, THERE WAS AND THERE STILL IS, AS IT TURNS OUT, AN EXHIBIT CHRONICLING THE HISTORY OF THE GAY RIGHTS MOVEMENT IN KANSAS CITY.

IT'S CALLED MAKING HISTORY, KANSAS CITY AND THE RISE OF GAY CIVIL RIGHTS.

AS WE KNOW, IT LASTED FOUR WHOLE DAYS IN THE CAPITOL IN JEFFERSON CITY, PHILIP, BUT THERE WAS SOME GOOD NEWS ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THERE WAS AN EFFORT HERE IN THIS TOWN TO BRING IT HERE AND SHOWCASE IT, AND PEOPLE FROM CORTEX TO THE FACTORIES TO THE FOUNDRY TO THE UNIVERSITY CITY LOOP AND CHURCHES AND THE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LIBRARY AND NOW THE MISSOURI HISTORICAL SOCIETY AND LAST NIGHT OPERA THEATRE OF ST. LOUIS, ALL IN SUPPORT OF THIS HISTORY, WHICH IS BY THE WAY PRETTY DRY AND NOT TOO CONTROVERSIAL AT ALL.

THEY ALL EXHIBITED IT IN A SIGN OF SUPPORT FOR THE COMMUNITY.

SO IS IT POSSIBLE TO FIND A SILVER LINING THIS THAT DARK CLOUD?

>> I THINK THAT IS.

AND I WOULD DO A SHOUTOUT TO THE JEWISH COMMUNITY RELATIONS COUNCIL IF ANYBODY WANTS TO HOST THAT SERIES OF BANNERS AT THEIR CHURCH, LIBRARY, BUSINESS, WE'RE SCHEDULING ALREADY TWO YEARS OUT.

SO WE'D LOVE TO HEAR THAT.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO CARE.

I THINK COMPASSION AND GETTING TO KNOW PEOPLE CHANGES PEOPLE'S POLITICAL VIEWS, BUT THE TROUBLE THIS YEAR, AND I'M DEPENDING ON MILK AND THE PROGRAM AT THE HISTORY MUSEUM TO TRY TO BLUNT SOME OF THAT, WE'RE BEING USED AGAIN AS A WAY TO RILE PEOPLE UP FOR ELECTION PURPOSES.

I DON'T BELIEVE A LOT OF WHAT IS GOING ON IS REALLY PEOPLE'S PERSONAL BELIEFS AND HATRED NECESSARILY, BUT IT'S A GOOD TOOL TO BUILD UP FOR VOTING PURPOSES.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF PROOF THAT THAT'S WHAT'S GOING ON, INCLUDING, YOU KNOW, WE HAD ALMOST TWO DOZEN NEGATIVE BILLS PROPOSED IN MISSOURI THIS YEAR AND WE HAD PEOPLE FLYING IN FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY SUPPORTING THOSE NEGATIVE BILLS.

THERE'S A COORDINATED EFFORT THAT'S HAPPENING IN THE UNITED STATES AND WE SAW THIS 25, 30 YEARS AGO ALSO.

>> WELL, IT SEEMS LIKE IN THE CULTURAL WARS, THE BATTLEGROUND IS WITH THE TRANSGENDER ATHLETES.

>> THAT'S THE NEW SLICE OF WHAT'S BEING TARGETED.

>> RIGHT.

>> BUT YOU KNOW, IN -- IT'S SAD TO SEE THAT THE TRANSGENDER COMMUNITY IS BEING TARGETED.

ATHLETES, HEALTHCARE, PARENTS BEING THREATENED WITH CRIMINALITY, DOCTORS FOR SUPPORTING TRANSGENDER YOUTH, ELECTION BILLS BEING PROPOSED THAT IF YOU DON'T LOOK LIKE YOUR DOCUMENT SAYS YOU ARE BY GENDER, YOU CAN BE REFUSED THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

AND THEN WE HAVE ALL THAT HAPPENING WHICH IS GETTING PEOPLE ALL ANGRY ON ISSUES THAT DON'T AFFECT THEIR LIFE.

I MEAN, NONE OF THOSE THINGS AFFECT YOUR LIFE OR YOUR LIFE ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS.

THEY AFFECT OUR LIVES AND THEY GET PEOPLE GINNED UP IN A STATE THAT I HATE TO -- THAT HAS VERY MODERATE GUN LAWS AND WE HAVE SEEN, PARTICULARLY TRANSGENDER WOMEN OF COLOR, BEING TARGETS AROUND THE COUNTRY FOR HATE CRIMES.

SO THE COMBINATION IS NOT A HEALTHY ONE.

>> BUT ISN'T IT -- WHEN IT COMES TO, I'LL SAY TRANSGENDER ATHLETES, I GUESS THE BIG STORY THIS YEAR WAS LEAH THOMAS, THE SWIMMER AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA WHO ACTUALLY WENT TO THE NCAA FINALS AND MAY HAVE ACTUALLY WON ONE OF THE HEATS THERE.

AMONG REASONABLE PEOPLING ISN'T THAT A FAIR DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S PROPER?

>> I THINK THAT'S MAYBE A TOPIC -- NO, I DON'T THINK IT IS.

REALLY, ACTUALLY, BOTTOM LINE.

I THINK THAT THERE IS -- THERE'S A BILL TO INSPECT PEOPLE'S GENITALS, GENITALIA IF THEY THINK THIS THAT THEY MAY NOT BE WHAT THEY ARE PRESENTING THEMSELVES AS.

INTERNAL, EXTERNAL.

SO I'VE BEEN AT -- YOU TALK IN SOME OF YOUR STORIES ABOUT GOING TO BALL GAMES, SOFTBALL GAMES, LITTLE LEAGUE GAMES.

PARENTS GET REALLY RILED UP SOMETIMES.

I CAN IMAGINE A PARENT, OH, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR THAT PERSON TO HAVE GOTTEN THREE STRIKES EVERY TIME THEY GOT UP.

I WANT THEM INSPECTED.

I THINK THERE'S SOME BIGGER DANGER.

AGAIN, FOR ONE IS BEING HURT EXCEPT THE -- NO ONE IS BEING HURT EXCEPT THE PERSON WHO'S BEING CHALLENGED.

THAT'S WHERE THE REAL HURT IS HAPPENING.

THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING TARGETED AND BEING CHALLENGED, AND I THINK THE STORY OF HARVEY MILK CAN SPEAK TO THE IMPORTANCE OF JUST HONORING PEOPLE FOR WHO THEY ARE AND I THINK THE EXHIBIT THAT IAN IS LEAD CAN GO TALK TO THE GREATER STORY.

SO I'M GOING TO LET THE TWO OF THEM, IF IT'S ALREADY, SHARE MORE DETAILS.

>> YEAH, IAN, YOU HAVE A TOUR THIS SATURDAY.

THAT HAPPENS TO BE SOCIAL MEDIA OUT, BUT YOU'RE WORKING ON -- TO BE SOLD OUT, BUT YOU'RE WORKING ON AN EXHIBIT THAT WILL BE A LOOK AT LGBTQ HISTORY IN ST. LOUIS, CORRECT?

>> SURE.

FIRST OF ALL, THERE ARE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES ON GO ON THAT CENTRAL WEST END LGBTQ HISTORY TOUR.

THERE'S EVEN ONE NEXT THURSDAY AND THEN TWO IN JULY AND TWO IN AUGUST AND MORE IN THE FALL WHEN IT'S A LITTLE BIT COOLER.

GO TO OUR WEBSITE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THOSE AND TO BOOK YOUR TICKETS, BUT WE'RE ALSO IN THE MIDST OF PLANNING FOR A MAJOR EXHIBIT.

THE FIRST TIME THERE WILL BE A FULL SCALE IN-DEPTH EXHIBIT ON ST. LOUIS'S LGBTQ HISTORY AT THE MISSOURI HISTORY MUSEUM.

THAT OPENS IN 2024, BUT WE'RE ALREADY HARD AT WORK ON IT, AND IN THE MEANTIME, THERE'S A LOT OF PROGRAMMING AND OPPORTUNITIES TO CONTRIBUTE TO OUR COLLECTION BY DONATING YOUR OWN ARTIFACT.

>> IN KANSAS CITY, AS WE KNOW, BACK IN THE DAY, ONE COULD BE FIRED FROM A JOB, ONE COULD ALSO BE ARRESTED FOR BEING IN A BAR IF YOU WENT TO A GAY BAR.

WAS THAT THE CASE IN ST. LOUIS AS WELL?

IF YOU WERE FOUND OUT TO BE GAY IN YOUR WORKPLACE, COULD YOUR BOSS FIRE YOU?

>> ABSOLUTELY, YOU COULD.

THAT HAPPENED MANY, MANY TIMES.

THERE WAS NO LEGAL PROTECTION AND EVEN TODAY, THAT'S AMBIGUOUS WHAT THE LEGAL SITUATION IS.

MISSOURI DOESN'T HAVE A STATE-LEVEL LAW PROHIBITING SOMEONE FROM BEING FIRED BECAUSE OF THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION OR GENDER IDENTITY.

>> I BELIEVE WHEN I WAS NIGHT POLICE REPORTER IN 1982, WE USED TO RUN THE NAMES OF MEN WHO WERE CAUGHT IN PUBLIC PARKS HAVING SEX.

I MEAN, THE VICE SQUAD WOULD GO OUT AND LOOK FOR THESE PEOPLE, AND WE WOULD RUN THEIR NAMES TO HUMILIATE THEM AND THE POST-DISPATCH EVEN THEN WAS A VERY LIBERAL PAPER.

AND I LOOK BACK ON THOSE DAYS AND THINK, MY GOODNESS, WE'VE COME SO FAR.

I MEAN, NOW IT SEEMS LIKE SOMETHING FROM THE MIDDLE AGES.

AND EVERYBODY, IT SEEMS LIKE, BELIEVES IN GAY MARRIAGE.

DOES THAT BODE WELL FOR THE FUTURE OR ARE WE STILL STRUGGLING?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT WE'RE STILL STRUGGLING IN MANY WAYS.

YOU KNOW, I THINK PART OF IT IS PEOPLE ARE SO DIVIDED ABOUT THESE ISSUES AND I THINK THAT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS THERE'S A LACK OF JUST DIALOGUE.

YOU KNOW, I THINK WE ALL -- AND MOST PEOPLE I KNOW KNOW SOMEBODY WHO IS GAY, YOU KNOW, OR TRANSGENDER, AND I -- THE FUNNY THING ABOUT IT IS MORE PEOPLE THAT I KNOW DO NOT HAVE ANY OF THESE ISSUES WITH GAY MARRIAGE, WITH ADOPTION, ALL OF THIS.

WHAT I FIND REALLY DISHEARTENING, THOUGH, IS HOW POLITICIZED THINGS ARE, AND I THINK, THAT'S TO ME WHAT I SEE AS THE GREAT DIVIDE.

THERE'S SORT OF LIKE THIS POLITICAL EFFORT TO DEMONIZE GAY AND TRANSGENDER PEOPLE, BUT BY AND LARGE, MOST PEOPLE OUT THERE DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH GAY PEOPLE OR GAY MARRIAGE OR ADOPTION, ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

SO THAT'S WHAT I FIND REALLY DISSPIRITING ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW.

>> WHAT BILL WAS DESCRIBING, THOUGH, ABOUT PRINTING THE NAMES OF MEN WHO WERE FOUND TOGETHER IN THE PARK OR WHATEVER, THAT'S ACTUALLY PART OF HARVEY MILK.

>> IT IS.

>> HE WAS ARRESTED IN CENTRAL PARK.

>> HIS EARLY LIFE, THAT'S WHERE MEN WENT TO HAVE SEX, YOU KNOW.

>> BEFORE THERE WERE GAY GARS.

>> BEFORE THERE WERE GAY BARS, AND THAT'S DEFINITELY PART OF HARVEY MILK'S STORY.

YOU KNOW, AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE DO ASK ME ABOUT HARVEY MILK, THEY SAY IS THIS A GAY OPERA?

AND I SAY, YOU KNOW, IT'S ABOUT A GAY RIGHTS ACTIVIST, BUT HE'S ALSO A CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST, AND THAT'S THE THING TO REALLY TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION AND REALLY THINK ABOUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOMEBODY LIKE THE LIFE OF HARVEY MILK.

AND IT WAS A BIG MESSY LIFE, TOO.

HE WASN'T -- HE WASN'T A SAINT, BUT WHAT HE STOOD FOR AND WHAT HE DID IN HIS LIFE STILL IMPACTS EVERYBODY VERY POSITIVELY TODAY.

AND THAT'S WHAT I FIND VERY INSPIRING ABOUT IT.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LOT OF YOUNG ARTISTS WHO WORK WITH US AT OPERA THEATRE OF ST. LOUIS, PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THEIR 20s, AND I'VE REALLY MARVELLED AT HOW THEY ARE VIEWING THIS AS NOT JUST AN ARTISTIC EXPERIENCE, BUT AN EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE TO, YOU KNOW, REALLY RESEARCH THIS AND TO UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT SOMEBODY LIKE HARVEY MILK WAS.

>> HAVE THEY ALL HEARD OF HARVEY MILK?

>> VAGUELY.

THEY VAGUELY REMEMBER A MOVIE THAT CAME OUT A FEW YEARS AGO WITH SEAN PENN.

>> I REMEMBER THAT MYSELF.

>> BUT TO BE DOING SOMETHING AND TO BE REALLY INVOLVED IN IT, AND WE DO A LOT OF EDUCATION AND OUTREACH AND EVEN AS MY CO-DIRECTOR AND I WERE WORKING ON THIS, JUST BECAUSE OF OUR AGE, OUR EXPERIENCE, WE'VE BEEN SHARING THOSE EXPERIENCES WITH, YOU KNOW, SOME OF OUR YOUNGER COLLEAGUES AND IT'S BEEN VERY ENLIGHTENING FOR THEM.

>> I GOT TO TELL YOU, THE FRAU THEATER OF ST. LOUIS PRODUCTION DOES MAKE YOU WANT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT HARVEY MILK AND WHEN I SAW IT, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG IF MY INTERPRETATION IS NOT ACCURATE, BUT IT DIDN'T SEEM TO ME THAT HE WAS KILLED BECAUSE HE WAS GAY.

HE HAD SUPPORT ADD HALFWAY HOUSE IN THE DISTRICT OF DAN WHITE, A FELLOW SUPERVISOR, AND DAN -- DAN WHITE KILLS BOTH THE MAYOR AND HARVEY MILK.

BUT WHAT I DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL TI LOOKED IT UP AFTERWARDS, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK YOU HAD THIS IN THE PRODUCTION THAT, WHITE, THE KILLER, GOT A SEVEN-YEAR SENTENCE AND HE ONLY SERVED FIVE YEARS.

>> YEAH, I THINK HE ACTUALLY GOT PAROLED AFTER TWO AND HE ENDED UP KILLING HIMSELF.

BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, HE DID NOT KILL HARVEY MILK BECAUSE HARVEY MILK WAS GAY.

YOU KNOW, DAN WHITE WAS AN EXTREMELY COMPLICATED PERSON, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE CERTAIN THINGS ABOUT HARVEY MILK'S OUTSPOKENNESS AND ACTUALLY THE SUPPORT THAT HE HAD FROM THE COMMUNITY, NOT JUST THE GAY COMMUNITY, THAT I'M SURE ENRAGED DAN WHITE.

AND DAN WHITE KIND OF FELT LIKE A LOSER, YOU KNOW.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE -- THAT'S ONE OF THE GREAT TRAGEDIES, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, THE MAYOR WAS ALSO MURDERED.

>> NOW, THE GAY COMMUNITIES ARE BEST KNOWN IN THE BIG CITIES, LIKE SAN FRANCISCO OR KEY WEST, NEW YORK, CHICAGO.

WHAT IS LIFE LIKE THESE DAYS FOR GAY MEN IN SMALL TOWNS?

I MEAN, DO THEY TEND TO LEAVE THE SMALL TOWNS?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU MADE A REALLY POINT.

I THINK THE GAY WORLD IS LESS -- WELL, IT'S LESS DEPENDENT ON BEING IN A BIG CITY.

YOU KNOW, WE USED TO CALL THINGS THE GAY GHETTO, YOU KNOW, WHERE DID PEOPLE HANG OUT.

I LIVED IN NEW YORK FOR OVER 20 YEARS AND WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW NEIGHBORHOODS CHANGE AND ALL OF THAT.

PEOPLE DIDN'T HAVE TO LIVE IN THE VILLAGE OR IN CHELSEA ANYMORE.

PEOPLE SPREAD OUT AND PEOPLE ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE.

I THINK THAT HAS TO DO A LOT WITH JUST THE WAY WE COMMUNICATE.

A LOT OF ONLINE COMMUNICATION, AND I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY CHOOSE TO LIVE IN SMALL TOWNS AND FEEL REALLY CONNECTED TO OTHER GAY PEOPLE IN THAT TOWN.

SO HOPEFULLY THERE IS SOME PROGRESS THERE.

>> I DON'T WANT TO PUT YOU IN AN AWKWARD POSITION, BUT WOULD YOU TELL A YOUNG GAY MAN OR A LESBIAN OR SOMEONE ELSE FROM THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY, WOULD YOU RECOMMEND THAT THEY MOVE TO MISSOURI, LIVE IN THE ST. LOUIS AREA?

>> YEAH, I WOULD.

I THINK THAT THERE ARE PROBLEMS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

WE CERTAINLY HAVE GREAT INSTITUTIONS THAT ARE WORKING TO IMPROVE LIFE HERE.

DON'T EXPECT NIRVANA, CERTAINLY.

THERE ARE SOME SERIOUS ISSUES, BUT I THINK A LOT OF THIS IS BEING GINNED UP RIGHT NOW AROUND THE COUNTRY POLITICALLY.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU GO.

>> I THINK OF ST. LOUIS AS ONE OF THE MOST WELCOMING COMMUNITIES I'VE EVER SPENT TIME IN.

I REALLY DO, AND I THINK THERE IS A REALLY STRONG OPEN COMMUNITY HERE, AND, YOU KNOW, I KNOW SO MANY GAY PEOPLE IN ST. LOUIS OR WHO ARE FROM ST. LOUIS.

SO MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE HAS ONLY BEEN POSITIVE HERE, AND I THINK THE -- YOU KNOW, WORKING IN THE ARTS, THAT'S -- I MEAN, NATURALLY I'M GOING TO FIND MORE OF A GAY FRIENDLY COMMUNITY THERE, BUT -- HERE, BUT I HAVE TO SAY, IT'S A VERY -- I THINK IT'S A VERY WELCOMING COMMUNITY AND A VERY POSITIVE COMMUNITY.

>> I'LL JUST POINT OUT OUR LGBTQ CHAMBER OF COMMERCE IS NOW WORKING JOINTLY WITH OTHER CHAMBERS THAT REPRESENT VARIOUS MINORITY COMMUNITIES BECAUSE THESE ISSUES -- WE'RE A RAINBOW COMMUNITY.

IF YOU'RE IN THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY, YOU'RE BLACK, YOU'RE ASIAN, YOU'VE A DISABILITY, YOU'RE OLD, YOU'RE YOUNG.

IT'S THE SAME THING IN OTHER COMMUNITIES.

THEY ALL HAVE LGBTQ PEOPLE IN THEIR COMMUNITIES, SO WE'RE LEARNING HOW TO WORK TOGETHER BETTER FOR THE GREATER GOOD.

>> AND YOUR ORGANIZATION, IS IT MOSTLY ENTREPRENEURIAL PEOPLE?

>> ENTREPRENEURIAL PEOPLE, BUT WE TRY TO NETWORK AND SUPPORT BUSINESS PEOPLE WHO OWN THEIR BUSINESSES.

WE'RE ABLE TO CERTIFY THEM THAT THEY'RE A MINORITY-OWNED BUSINESS, BUT ALSO JUST LGBTQ PEOPLE WORKING ANY PLACE.

>> IS THERE A WISH LIST OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE COULD HELP YOU WITH OR THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE PROGRESS ON?

CAN YOU THINK OF ANYTHING?

>> I KNOW THAT WE NEED MORE DONATIONS TO FILL OUT OUR COLLECTION SO IT'S MORE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE.

SO WE HAVE A SPECIAL NEED FOR MATERIALS RELATED TO THE ASEXUAL AND INTERSEX COMMUNITIES.

WE NEED MORE MATERIALS TO DOCUMENT THE EXPERIENCES OF LGBTQ PEOPLE OF COLOR AND ALSO LGBTQ FAMILIES, FAMILIES RAISING CHILDREN, LONG-TERM RELATIONSHIPS, ETCETERA.

>> THEY'LL BE PART OF THE BIG DISPLAY?

>> EXACTLY, AND ALSO PART OF A PERMANENT COLLECTION THAT COMMUNITY MEMBERS CAN REFERENCE FOR MANY GENERATIONS TO COME.

>> AND BEING ON THE FUNDRAISING COMMITTEE, I HAVE TO SAY WE'D BE HAPPY TO ACCEPT MORE DONATIONS TO FUND THIS PROJECT.

>> BUT DON'T LET IT INTERFERE WITH YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS TO NINE PBS.

>> OR YOUR MEMBERSHIP IN THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE OR YOUR OPERA TICKETS FOR ANY OF THE SHOWS.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE ASEXUAL COMMUNITY.

I DID NOT REALIZE THERE WAS OFFICIALLY AN ASEXUAL COMMUNITY?

>> MORE AND MORE, THERE IS.

PEOPLE ARE CONNECTING ONLINE OFTENTIMES TO TALK ABOUT THEIR SHARED EXPERIENCES AND INTEREST AS ASEXUAL PEOPLE AND ACTUALLY DAVID JAY, ONE OF THE MAJOR ASEXUAL ACTIVISTS IN THE UNITED STATES WAS BORN AND RAISED IN ST. LOUIS AND GOT HIS START AS AN ACTIVIST HERE.

>> CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH, IAN, DARNELL, FOR JOINING US.

GOOD LUCK EVERYBODY AT MO HISTORY.

JAMES ROBINSON, KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK AT OPERA THEATRE ST. LOUIS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE WORLD PREMIERE OF HARVEY MILK, REIMAGINED.

AND PHILIP DEITCH FROM THE LGBTQ CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

BILL AND I WILL SEE EVERYBODY NEXT WEEK AT THIS TIME.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.